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On July 24 2011 02:52 mango_destroyer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 02:51 Chicane wrote:Thanks for being clear on the whole situation. I appreciated the fact that you said that you had no plans to send him to Anaheim rather than play it off by saying "oh there were no more player passes available so we couldn't send him, otherwise we would." It's unfortunate to see he won't be on the team, but you guys look like a strong team nevertheless. On July 24 2011 02:46 mango_destroyer wrote:
So negotiations didn`t work out. Big deal. I think you put him in too much a negative light. I don't think Phoenix was put in a bad light. They just said his intentions. I personally don't think less of Phoenix for wanting to live his life in a specific way, and wanting to travel back to Korea. I'm not sure what you felt was negative, unless I missed something. On July 24 2011 02:51 arbitrageur wrote:On July 24 2011 02:48 TheAntZ wrote:we completed literally everything that was in Phoenix’s contract, but Phoenix also never signed the contract and threatened to leave the entire time he was a part of the team unless we met more demands. These kinds of players shouldnt be regarded as "professionals". Phoenix is an awesome player but this is behavior you'd expect from someone whos actually won or done something. What are you going on about? No contract was signed, Phoenix was negotiating as every other person who has a brain would. Ya I agree with this... he wanted to get as much as he could from the offer, or go somewhere else. It seems like a smart decision. You wouldn't want to just sit back and take the first offer you are given. Not sure the need to include specifics of all his demands was necessary, imo.
I'm just going to throw another word in here and say that I don't see how this reflects negatively on Phoenix myself. He had reasonable demands (esp. re: military service), and what's been presented are just ... facts? Sure, it could have been worded a little more delicately, but after desrow's leak, I appreciate Reign stepping up to the plate and giving us the story ASAP.
I certainly think no less of Phoenix, though I do think both parties should perhaps have talked through this a little bit more before announcing Phoenix joining Reign.
Anyways, good luck to both Phoenix and Reign, and I'm not gonna lie, I really want to know who this "budding organization" is that's been trying to lure players away from FXO and RGN. 
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I wouldn't classify this as drama, it's just a player leaving a team (or rather never joining it ? ).
Wonder who the budding organisation is.
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LOL @ pheonix threatining to leave team why because he thinks he a hot shot korean?
Im sure there are 50 other Koreans that would easily agree to those terms.
Reign doesnt need Pheonix, Pheonix doesnt need Reign.
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Why would promote him as part of Reign when he wasn't actually under contract with and didn't have any obligations to you? It's hard to leave something when you aren't actually part of it to begin with.
Also, as others have said, the stay length of stay in the US seems like a fairly large problem that would have been talked about before joining the team.
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So team and player couldn't agree on a deal...so what
Stop trying to create drama where there isn't any - business decision for Reign and personal decision for Phoenix. Good luck to both parties in the future
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So much drama this week. Who is the budding organization?
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8751 Posts
On July 24 2011 02:57 FrankWalls wrote:
i'm more curious who this budding organization is that is trying to snipe players from reign and fxo
Yeah, such a tease. I understand that it's not relevant to the Phoenix story. But there's no reason to keep it secret!
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I think this goes all the way back to the contract thing that befuddled the EG/TSL/Puma thing. He wasn't under a contract so pretty much everything he did was legal. Reign should've contracted Phoenix and worked their way out before they started to give Phoenix the benefits and put Phoenix into on the roster. Reign didn't contract Phoenix, Reign got burned. Phoenix got a few good kicks out of his trip with Reign and is now free to pick up the benefits from whatever other team he signs with. Reign should've contracted him in the first place, and in the end I think Reign really doesn't have anybody to blame but themselves.
This incident and the EG/TSL/Puma thing really shows that you gotta get more smart about this contract business. TSL should've contracted Puma or else teams like EG gets them. Reign should've contracted Phoenix or else Phoenix is in a position to push around Reign. Yeah the honor and respect system works for some players, but if you aren't willing to go all the way in the business aspect (especially in a business world!) and contract the players you should've contracted then you have no one to blame but yourself. Yeah players like Puma and Phoenix are assholes for doing what they did, but that doesn't change the fact that they had all the right in the eye of the law to do what they did. Again, yes Phoenix was rather unscrupulous in this incident, but the only people the management at Reign can blame is themselves.
So team and player couldn't agree on a deal...so what
Stop trying to create drama where there isn't any - business decision for Reign and personal decision for Phoenix. Good luck to both parties in the future
I agree. This is business as usual and players change teams all the time for whatever reasons.
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Seems reasonable from both sides. Maybe reign were a little hasty announcing Phoenix as a player if he hadn't actually signed a contract? (Edit: ignore that, didn't read properly)
Really doesn't matter though... the main thing to take from this isn't "shame on reign" or "shame on Phoenix" but rather "shame on desRow"
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On July 24 2011 02:57 frequency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 02:48 TheAntZ wrote:we completed literally everything that was in Phoenix’s contract, but Phoenix also never signed the contract and threatened to leave the entire time he was a part of the team unless we met more demands. These kinds of players shouldnt be regarded as "professionals". Phoenix is an awesome player but this is behavior you'd expect from someone whos actually won or done something. You say that as if it's fine for players that have had success to have unreasonable demands and to screw their teams around.
thats not how I meant to come across, what I meant was when someone gets really good and has great results, they get an ego, and thats understandable even if not acceptable. What i meant is that Phoenix seems to have unrealistically high expectations given his achievements
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On July 24 2011 03:00 sermokala wrote:
I got a really really bad feelign that this "budding" organization is the Secret EG project that they wanted Puma to captian.
oh well He never did anything and from what it looks like never was apart of the team officaly. Still can't wait to see whats in store for Reign still.
there is no secret project, EG isnt really "budding" because they have been around since the start of SC2. If you look at the people they have signed since sc2. Idra, Demuslim, and Puma is still in negotiation. They seem to be happy to improve their supporting cast and are only looking for "franchise" players, which eg is looking for. I also dont see why they would have any interest in pheonix as he hasnt really been successful in anything.
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I think it's great you let everyone know what happened and how. It will stop alot of unnecessary bickering about what happened and people making up all kinds of shit because theyre paranoid and what not. ty for doing this.
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Let's get the scoop on this "budding organization." Can't mention it then not tell us that isn't fair!
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United States4796 Posts
On July 24 2011 03:01 Ezze wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 02:54 arbitrageur wrote:On July 24 2011 02:50 Terranist wrote:
so phoenix burns you guys and you do the unprofessional thing by posting the dirt on TL Mods please ban. Why would they ban? Most people would look at this post and infer the exact same thing. I'm one of them. Whatever happened during negotiations doesn't matter. It's unprofessional to come to TL and post all he dirt. Look at how FXO handled their situation with Sheth. That's how you do it. You don't think FXO could've hurt Sheth's image if they wanted to considering what he did to the team?
I think giving all the details of the incident was a professional move. Again, Spades stated that the only reason all of this happened was because desRow posted and because of that the community wanted details. I doubt the public would have been happy with a "negotiations fell through" after what was exposed with what desRow said.
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Happy that this was found out quickly. (like posted about etc). it is good to see teams offering the community their side of things (EG/puma scandal being the other way). I know that it might seem like they are posting the dirty laundry but it is more so that they can be 100percent truthful with us.
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Neither side sounds unreasonable to me, it just looks as though they were unable to reach a comfortable agreement :/
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On July 24 2011 03:03 YeYo wrote:
LOL @ pheonix threatining to leave team why because he thinks he a hot shot korean?
Im sure there are 50 other Koreans that would easily agree to those terms.
Reign doesnt need Pheonix, Pheonix doesnt need Reign.
Oh get over your silly judgements.
Are you going to judge every player that wants to negotiate their contract? This is why negotiations shouldn't really be made public anyways, because there are always gits ready to make judgments about the negotiating party.
Reign shouldn't really have announced Phoenix if he wasn't contracted yet, while the rest of the team was. Negotiations continued to take place afterwards and ultimately Phoenix chose not to sign with the team, he was pretty much never with Reign in that regard, they just jumped the gun in announcing him. When everyone on your team is contracted except for one person, and you're negotiating with them about the terms of their contract, it's strange to announce that they're a part of your team, because you get into situations like this.
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On July 24 2011 03:01 DivinO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 02:57 moltenlead wrote:
I think that you would have been better off by simply stating that negotiations fell through. You can't exactly say that he left if he was never actually a part of your team, despite wearing the tag.
If you are going to claim another team is interfering in Phoneix's decision, then I hope you have proof, because that could count against you tbh.
A shame it didn't work out, but guess his needs couldn't match up with yours. That's what Mirhi said and meant. That negotiations fell through. It was desRow who posted that PhoeNix left in the first place.
I think that he could have said it without trying to slander Phoneix's name much more than was fair.
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United States4796 Posts
On July 24 2011 03:04 Keap wrote:
So team and player couldn't agree on a deal...so what
Stop trying to create drama where there isn't any - business decision for Reign and personal decision for Phoenix. Good luck to both parties in the future
So can I ask who you're directing "Stop trying to create drama where there isn't any" to?
Just a question. I'm curious, not vindictive.
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I will ask phoenix about the "budding organization" once he is online.
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