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United States427 Posts
On July 20 2011 12:35 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 12:27 ki11z0ne wrote:On July 20 2011 12:17 Underoath wrote:
Jessica is doing 2 things:
-Feeding the trolls
-Getting mad..
this will only empower more "U MAD?" posts towards her.. If I were her i'd just let my skills speak for me. exactly what i said, but my dad (lol ya my dad) said when you have so many people against you it really hard to get better, flamers will explode on you if you lose a game because of something stupid its hard, you have to have the right mind set for her situation... personally all this flamers would motivate me so much more to prove them wrong, she needs to go win a GSL lolz... that would shut them up haha I have to disagree with your dad, there are many supporters, many people who are neutral, and many people who are critical. You can ignore what you choose and push forwards, or use the hate to fuel yourself to prove people wrong, Huk himself said he does that. It isn't too difficult to power through the negativity, just prove people wrong, a reaction such as this only suggests that you want to nip things in the bud without having to actually show them that they misjudged you. This whole fiasco has put me off, whereas I was fairly neutral towards her initially.
well there are plenty of people who have preserved through a lot of negativity. Do not get me wrong it happens a lot, personally i have done it a few times in my life (football and track). but looking at this situation she is making this a big deal, not ever one can handle so much negativity, thats why a lot of people do not into the U.S military many MANY people cant handle some one talking shit in there face, as loud as a rock concert, and continue with there day you have to have that kinda of personality
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Eve is freaking 16y old which a bunch of big brothers (the SlayerS team) Jessica isn't doing this for anyone but Eve. To show her that no matter what critics made by jealous fans are expressed, she will have the support of her team.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
wow you guys made this shit so big that now I have to listen to artosis talk about it.
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On July 20 2011 12:34 HelloxD wrote:
'Korean netizens'
Am i the only one sick of that word?
They're all a bunch of losers / trolls
Not netizens...
GIVE ME JESSICA'S TWITTER
im gonna spam it with supportive letters ( non creep way )
You can't just judge the ENTIRE korean netizen population as trolls.
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On July 20 2011 13:11 EchoZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 12:34 HelloxD wrote:
'Korean netizens'
Am i the only one sick of that word?
They're all a bunch of losers / trolls
Not netizens...
GIVE ME JESSICA'S TWITTER
im gonna spam it with supportive letters ( non creep way ) You can't just judge the ENTIRE korean netizen population as trolls.
Reading your signature after that post was hilarious.
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I think too many people here don't know how to look at things from other perspectives. Simply put, as many have said before me, Korean culture and Korean netizen culture is completely different than in the US/Canada/Europe. To everyone who is strongly critical of Slayers_Jessica in this thread, how many of you are thinking from a Korean point of view? How many of you can even imagine what that point of view would be like?
As for freedom of speech, there are laws against slander, libel, and defamation in not just the US but most Western countries. Korea just chooses to enforce those laws on the internet as well, which again, is understandable given the pervasiveness and importance of the internet in their culture. It's not a sign of Asian cultures failing to change with the times, it's an example of Korea being ahead of the ball. The internet is no longer just a place for bad memes and trolls but a legitimate place for business, networking, education, and everything else that comes with it. Defamation is defamation, slander is slander, libel is libel no matter where it takes place. You can troll for lulz and it's all fine and good but there are still lines that you're not supposed to cross.
Lastly...for everyone talking about "Gold League"...she also has an account in Diamond and was the winner of an amateur tourney. Judging by comments made by fxoboss...diamond in Korea would probably equate to master league level play in NA so she can't be that bad just from ladder ranking. I mean if we're bashing play and getting results in major tournies and what not...I love qxc. KawaiiRice is my favorite foreign terran. Tyler is a fan fave as is Catz. What exactly have they done lately in major tournaments? Are you saying a Korean diamond league player winning an amateur tournament is not qualified enough to be scouted by a professional team (one that is known for taking on prospects)? I'm pretty sure if this was a foreigner playing in a NA masters league, winning some amateur tournies in Korea and then being scouted by a pro Korean team, TL would be riding high on them and wishing them the best of luck so what gives with the Eve criticism? If it turns out that she can't cut it in GSTL...well, how much help have optikzero/qxc/moonan been to the 0-4 FXO team so far in GSTL?
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On July 20 2011 09:56 Ridiculisk wrote:
My biggest concern in all of this is how Eve is holding up?
She's young and only just starting to get her foot in the door of professional E-sports. Abuse and critisism before she's even played a televised match can be particularly hurtful.
Personally, I think Jessica is doing something very noble. She might have overreacted a little, but defending your team mates from internet abuse (and potentially hurtful images) is something I can respect from a team manager.
i wouldnt blame slayers eve if she just quits the team and never shows up again. its amazing how people have treated her just for sitting next to other progamers.
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On July 20 2011 12:12 Ribbon wrote:
I just want to make sure I understand this situation properly from start to finish. Is this a correct summery?
1. Slayers Jessica sees Eve, a diamond-level Terran, and decides to recruit her into Slayers, with the idea of having her ready for GSTL after a month or two of training in the Slayers house.
2. The theory behind this was that females didn't play enough SC2 to be "worthy" of joining a team due to the perception that SC2 was a boys' club.
3. By forging a female progamer from scratch, Slayers would make female progaming look a bit less "weird", encouraging more females to try and enter. (And Slayers would have an edge in picking up any pro level females that appeared, because they could claim experience, but this is more of a "to grow esports!" and/or a publicity stunt than a ten-year plan)
4. The foreign community doesn't react too well to this.
5. But the Korean netizens are way way more vitriolic, photoshopping Eve's head into X-rated images and the like.
6. There is a history of celebrities committing suicide over this kind of thing in Korea
7. Thus, Jessica is suing the more extreme posters
8. However, she is also spending a lot of time in very public fights with the less extreme antis, confusing the issue.
Is this accurate?
2 and 3 are too opinion loaded to be factual, but you'll find support for those points.
7 - The previous suicides are context for the laws and their enforcement in South Korea. Jessica's backlash is because Eve's feelings are hurt (perhaps to the point of despair/depression). She's stated she's giving evidence of the most offensive to the police, but a picture posted to twitter, as well as a couple of twitter engagements, has suggested that she's going after more than those who posted fake porn.
8 is the point that this OP was originally asking about, you state it very succintly.
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On July 20 2011 13:26 tripper688 wrote:
I think too many people here don't know how to look at things from other perspectives. Simply put, as many have said before me, Korean culture and Korean netizen culture is completely different than in the US/Canada/Europe. To everyone who is strongly critical of Slayers_Jessica in this thread, how many of you are thinking from a Korean point of view? How many of you can even imagine what that point of view would be like? i believe her actions are quite understandable from a european point of view. at least european criminal laws are very strict in comparison to the us even if they are less strict then in korea.
On July 20 2011 13:26 tripper688 wrote:
As for freedom of speech, there are laws against slander, libel, and defamation in not just the US but most Western countries. Korea just chooses to enforce those laws on the internet as well, which again, is understandable given the pervasiveness and importance of the internet in their culture. It's not a sign of Asian cultures failing to change with the times, it's an example of Korea being ahead of the ball. The internet is no longer just a place for bad memes and trolls but a legitimate place for business, networking, education, and everything else that comes with it. Defamation is defamation, slander is slander, libel is libel no matter where it takes place. You can troll for lulz and it's all fine and good but there are still lines that you're not supposed to cross. its not only korea that enforces those laws on the internet. its false to think korea is a novum. it is completely irrelevant what means you use to commit a crime.
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On July 20 2011 13:26 tripper688 wrote:
Judging by comments made by fxoboss...diamond in Korea would probably equate to master league level play in NA so she can't be that bad just from ladder ranking.
This is a dumb point, because Code B qualifiers have established the accepted ladder cutoff just to get into the tournament (Grandmasters). Even after the size of the qualification is tripled, it's WAY above diamond.
The point is that no matter what the level of play might equate to on any other server, you can't participate in any level of GSL with a Diamond ladder ranking. It doesn't matter how well regarded she would be on NA; She cannot play professionally in Korea, thus Eve is a project player at best.
[None of this justifies any of the vulgar posts, it's just a recurring theme of the thread I felt was worth addressing.]
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On July 20 2011 07:25 illsick wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 07:19 farnham wrote:On July 20 2011 07:15 illsick wrote:On July 20 2011 07:03 farnham wrote:On July 20 2011 07:01 OdiousTea wrote:
Wow, Jessica is pissed, but recruiting someone without any proven credentials is a legitimate cause for some critisism. Especially when Eve is part of the minority of esports.
she did not hire slayerseve though she is just a trainee not a team member. she is probably not receiving any money Slayers_jessica is the manager and in the interview it was said that Jessica scouted her for her looks as one of the reasons. She is part of the team and I'm not sure if anyone from slayers get paid any salary. you are referring to this article http://thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=703754&category=102슬레이어스의 김가연 게임단주가 실력과 미모를 높이 평가하며 직접 발굴한 것으로 알려졌다. this is not a comment of kimgayeon it says "It is said that Kim Gayeon appreciated her skills and her looks" its not kim gayeon said "I appreciate Slayers Eves skills and her looks" get the difference ? it is not a direct comment from kim gayeon at all http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=243800what difference does that make? slayers_jessica scouted her based on her skills and looks.
the difference is the wording
the actual sentence in the article is only an information that could be a rumor or what the journalist heard from other people.
its not from herself. she did not speak for herself in that article or about her decision. its just wording that the journalst wrote
the translation is wrong in that matter. there is a difference between. "it is known that..." and saying that she did it. in the first instance its unproven information
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On July 20 2011 13:35 Wren wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 13:26 tripper688 wrote:
Judging by comments made by fxoboss...diamond in Korea would probably equate to master league level play in NA so she can't be that bad just from ladder ranking. This is a dumb point, because Code B qualifiers have established the accepted ladder cutoff just to get into the tournament (Grandmasters). Even after the size of the qualification is tripled, it's WAY above diamond. The point is that no matter what the level of play might equate to on any other server, you can't participate in any level of GSL with a Diamond ladder ranking. It doesn't matter how well regarded she would be on NA; She cannot play professionally in Korea, thus Eve is a project player at best. [None of this justifies any of the vulgar posts, it's just a recurring theme of the thread I felt was worth addressing.]
its not like she got a code a free spot or something. she is a trainee within the team and not a team member. she has to go through a gsl like tournament to get into the team. only then she will be able to be code b
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if you understood the severity of korean netizen criticisms & lewd remarks against famous individuals (celebrities & etc) you would understand half of why Jessica is doing what she has done. Unfortunately, Korean netizen's comments are lewd, critical and harsh to the point that the likes of most forums would look like a holy scripture. It is not only that, but the way most of the comments are worded. Often times, these posts/comments are not just a comment about the particular individual but a deconstruction of the individual as a human being into objects of worth (sexually) and lack of worth (ability wise).
These comments are NOT simply "she sucks, why are you taking her in" or "I would love to bang her".. it is more like "hey, why don't you stop singing and just take off your clothes" or "God you suck, please hang yourself."
The comments of Korean netizens are heavily responsible for at least 1-2 high-profile suicides a year AT LEAST. In other words, every 6 months, the mob's dehumanizing of certain "selected" individuals plays a significant role which leads to suicides or suicide attempts. This is one of the biggest reasons such a law was enforced in Korea.
The likes of such actions AND consequences do not really exist anywhere else in the world as far as I am aware.
someone in the forums asked why Jessica, a celebrity/actress, would not have more control and be willing to ignore the trolls and the reason is BECAUSE she is an actress. She knows, better than anyone, how damaging these criticisms can be. They don't just post in their own forums, might I add. In certain situations, I've seen these people storm to the actress/celebrities' WEBSITE and post things like "hey, your singing is awful, you should hang yourself" and "why bother singing, when you can just show your breasts." Why not censor it in their website? In that particular occasion, it was posted so often & so frequently that a person would have to be deleting all day 24/7.
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It's incredible and a little sad that people can't accept that 99% of the reason they said bad things about her is because she is a girl. If they recruited a random bronze guy and placed him in the team ... something like this would have never happened. So don't come with freedom of speach crap , the real problem is why the qq started.
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On July 20 2011 13:32 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 13:26 tripper688 wrote:
I think too many people here don't know how to look at things from other perspectives. Simply put, as many have said before me, Korean culture and Korean netizen culture is completely different than in the US/Canada/Europe. To everyone who is strongly critical of Slayers_Jessica in this thread, how many of you are thinking from a Korean point of view? How many of you can even imagine what that point of view would be like? i believe her actions are quite understandable from a european point of view. at least european criminal laws are very strict in comparison to the us even if they are less strict then in korea. Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 13:26 tripper688 wrote:
As for freedom of speech, there are laws against slander, libel, and defamation in not just the US but most Western countries. Korea just chooses to enforce those laws on the internet as well, which again, is understandable given the pervasiveness and importance of the internet in their culture. It's not a sign of Asian cultures failing to change with the times, it's an example of Korea being ahead of the ball. The internet is no longer just a place for bad memes and trolls but a legitimate place for business, networking, education, and everything else that comes with it. Defamation is defamation, slander is slander, libel is libel no matter where it takes place. You can troll for lulz and it's all fine and good but there are still lines that you're not supposed to cross. its not only korea that enforces those laws on the internet. its false to think korea is a novum. it is completely irrelevant what means you use to commit a crime.
That's my point, most of the people here criticizing Jessica and Eve are not looking at it from the perspective that breaking the law is breaking the law and are not looking at it from the perspective of a law was broken and it was possibly endangering the well being of someone personally recruited for a team. Your views are an exception and not the norm in this thread which is kind of sad.
On July 20 2011 13:35 Wren wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 13:26 tripper688 wrote:
Judging by comments made by fxoboss...diamond in Korea would probably equate to master league level play in NA so she can't be that bad just from ladder ranking. This is a dumb point, because Code B qualifiers have established the accepted ladder cutoff just to get into the tournament (Grandmasters). Even after the size of the qualification is tripled, it's WAY above diamond. The point is that no matter what the level of play might equate to on any other server, you can't participate in any level of GSL with a Diamond ladder ranking. It doesn't matter how well regarded she would be on NA; She cannot play professionally in Korea, thus Eve is a project player at best. [None of this justifies any of the vulgar posts, it's just a recurring theme of the thread I felt was worth addressing.]
You completely missed my point. My point isn't that she can compete in GSL now. My point isn't that she will definitely compete later on. My point is that it's not inconceivable for a team to scout her based on what she has done. Especially a team that takes on a lot of relative prospects like SlayerS. My relating of level or play was only done to illustrate the point that she's not as bad as some people seem to make her out to be with the constant emphasis on gold league and she's only there because she's a girl. Yes Eve is a prospect right now. That's all she is meant to be. She was taken on at this time so they can try to groom her into a regular on the team...whether or not it works remains to be seen. Some of the SlayerS mainstays were allowed on because of potential seen by BoxeR and the coaches and were later developed into top tier players...Alicia is one that comes to mind.
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it also should be noted that kim gayeon gave all the trolls an ultimatum to delete their posts. she only picked up posts that were still there after the ultimatum
she didnt need to do this at all imho.
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On July 20 2011 13:02 Otolia wrote:
Eve is freaking 16y old which a bunch of big brothers (the SlayerS team) Jessica isn't doing this for anyone but Eve. To show her that no matter what critics made by jealous fans are expressed, she will have the support of her team.
Isn't she 22 years old (Korean age)?
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On July 20 2011 13:57 Ryo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 13:02 Otolia wrote:
Eve is freaking 16y old which a bunch of big brothers (the SlayerS team) Jessica isn't doing this for anyone but Eve. To show her that no matter what critics made by jealous fans are expressed, she will have the support of her team. Isn't she 22 years old (Korean age)?
(Korean Years), slightly longer or shorter than cat years?
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I am glad TL isn't that bad for person bashing. Thanks, mods of TL, for preventing stuff like this from happening.
As far as I know, no site for SC in Korea has the same posting standards and popularity, which is a pity.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On July 20 2011 14:03 DeltruS wrote:
I am glad TL isn't that bad for person bashing. Thanks, mods of TL, for preventing stuff like this from happening.
As far as I know, no site for SC in Korea has the same posting standards and popularity, which is a pity.
actually PlayXP is really mannered.
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EPT
