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This is slightly off-topic but I'm not gonna open a new thread to say that;
What concerns me is how other progamers are gonna react if they face Eve in televised show match.
Koreans seem to have difficulties to digest a loss vs a girl. Most of the progamers that PortossGirl has beaten on a televised match have retired right after.
Korean netizen might also see this as a BM move from SlayerS, looking for tilting some players in GSTLs.
For my part, I'm happy that SlayerS is training this girl. BoxeR always liked to write history of ESPORTS, and it's time to open a new chapter.
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On July 20 2011 13:02 Otolia wrote:
Eve is freaking 16y old which a bunch of big brothers (the SlayerS team) Jessica isn't doing this for anyone but Eve. To show her that no matter what critics made by jealous fans are expressed, she will have the support of her team.
She's 21, which doesn't even make her young for a progamer. Don't exaggerate.
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On July 20 2011 14:08 Diks wrote:
This is slightly off-topic but I'm not gonna open a new thread to say that;
What concerns me is how other progamers are gonna react if they face Eve in televised show match.
Koreans seem to have difficulties to digest a loss vs a girl. Most of the progamers that PortossGirl has beaten on a televised match have retired right after.
Korean netizen might also see this as a BM move from SlayerS, looking for tilting some players in GSTLs.
For my part, I'm happy that SlayerS is training this girl. BoxeR always liked to write history of ESPORTS, and it's time to open a new chapter.
Cella is trolling us all...COACH OF THE YEAR!!! lol.
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On July 20 2011 13:11 EchoZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 12:34 HelloxD wrote:
'Korean netizens'
Am i the only one sick of that word?
They're all a bunch of losers / trolls
Not netizens...
GIVE ME JESSICA'S TWITTER
im gonna spam it with supportive letters ( non creep way ) You can't just judge the ENTIRE korean netizen population as trolls.
woops sorryy, not the ENTIRE population
still majority is hating on the internet or obsessed with celebs/'idols' ( admit it )
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Hello everyone, welcome to the real world. In this place, sometimes people are mean. Also in this place, we deal with things known as facts. It is a fact that in a completely male dominated arena, if you enter as a female, you will be examined. It is also a fact that if absolutely anything about your worth in that arena is questionable, you will be reacted to in a severe manner. Is it fair in some idealistic meaning of the word where everyone gets a level playing field? Absolutely not. Unexpected? Illegal? I'm not so sure about these.
Also I'm not so quick to explain it away as "they're bashing on her because she's a girl." They're looking at her more because she's a girl. If she was a grandmaster level player who just at least put up a fight in a team league match or the like, this conversation would be totally different. She gets put under a microscope because she's a girl. Then, when her credentials don't hold up, she gets all the same sort of heat anyone would get under that microscope.
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I think its very good what Jessica is doing. Ppl can say awful things on the internet while they arent such heroes in real life. If you can say awful things on the internet then man up and be responsible for your actions too! Also Korea has the highest celebrity suicide rate..I think it would be beyond awful if anything happend to Eve because of the horrific comments on forums and such.
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jessica is FIRE
she is exactly what a female needs to be in the E-sports world; if she was not like this, she would not be Boxer's girl, and she sure as heck wouldn't have proposed creating Slayers to him, and Slayers would sure as heck not exist, and Boxer would be coaching SK Telecom for all we know
I am thinking that she aggro'd those innocent people because
- she is probably feeling like her decision to take Eve on as a trainee is being ridiculed
- Slayers is struggling
- she is trying to protect a girl that may not be as strong as her (I can imagine seeing your head Photoshopped onto a variety of subjects as a girl would be scarring ._.)
I hope it all works out in the end and people forgive her. But she is good for e-sports overall. And girls are good for e-sports as well. I play curling (harhar), and because it is a sport where men and women are nearly, if not, competitively equal, the sport really started to benefit when men and women events were featured separately and together. Probably not the same for SC2, but if there is a female MC out there, it will be very hard for her to find her way if this is how people react when she makes her first steps.
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I don't think she's overreacting. In fact, I envy the Korean system where people can't be aggressive douchebags on the internet and hide behind a computer screen free of any consequences. I've followed Korean news for quite some time so I really do understand how bad some netizens get and I take pleasure in reading about how they end up having to either publicly apologize or face a fine/jailtime. I'd rather some douchebag kid be punished for his/her own actions and learn respect than someone be trashed/slandered to the point where they break.
For those who went to extremes I support the actions taken against them. Inevitably some lesser offenders/innocents will get caught up in the mess with her flustered throughout the whole thing though, but again I don't think it's an overreaction. Just a bad time to piss off an already angry woman. 
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On July 20 2011 14:37 Keren wrote:
Hello everyone, welcome to the real world. In this place, sometimes people are mean. Also in this place, we deal with things known as facts. It is a fact that in a completely male dominated arena, if you enter as a female, you will be examined. It is also a fact that if absolutely anything about your worth in that arena is questionable, you will be reacted to in a severe manner. Is it fair in some idealistic meaning of the word where everyone gets a level playing field? Absolutely not. Unexpected? Illegal? I'm not so sure about these.
Also I'm not so quick to explain it away as "they're bashing on her because she's a girl." They're looking at her more because she's a girl. If she was a grandmaster level player who just at least put up a fight in a team league match or the like, this conversation would be totally different. She gets put under a microscope because she's a girl. Then, when her credentials don't hold up, she gets all the same sort of heat anyone would get under that microscope.
Actually...from what I can see of Korean laws regarding harassment and defamation, some of this is actually illegal. In the real world, your actions have consequences. If you act like a douchebag and break laws, you can expect to have to pay. Are the laws too much? Punishment too harsh? Maybe in the US. Probably not in Korea where they lead all of Asia in suicide rate and people actually do get ruined/kill themselves over internet happenings. Maybe this doesn't seem fair to a troll but you know what? That's the real world. And the internet is part of it. Welcome to the real world.
As far as skill and credentials go, she's being scouted as a prospect. SlayerS_Alicia was a nobody who was bounced out of the SlayerS tryout tournament but was invited on to be a prospect anyway. Now he's a regular mainstay and considered a high level protoss. "When her credentials don't hold up" is just silly coming from posters on TL. We have/had NA diamond/master level pro players (not prospects) on teams (which is apparently what she plays at), accomplishing next to nothing of note in major tournaments for long stretches of time throughout the short history of SC2. If those players can get fan clubs and devoted followings, then at least Eve should be given a chance at proving herself on the team. If she isn't, I don't see anything wrong with the statement that people are bashing her because she's a girl. Yes being a girl certainly helped her get noticed but her credentials themselves actually aren't all that bad compared to quite a few big name pros as of late.
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I think she's overreacting. In fact, not only is she overreacting but she is doing one of the worst possible things she could do when confronted by trolls. If you react to a troll, you're just feeding their fire. Ok, you report them to the police. So they'll get a Proxy, or their friend from another country, to troll harder.
All she needs to do to stop the trolling is train Eve, have her win some games, and shut the trolls up!
People talk smack about real athletes ALL THE TIME. And a lot of that is even more baseless than whats said on the internet. When you make yourself a public figure by joining an organization like a sports team you need to be prepared to except that.
I look forward to Eve's career though. I hope we get to see her play and do well. It would be amazing for e-sports to get more girls and not have it be a different league!
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TLADT24920 Posts
Personally, I think comments that are abusive are clearly in the wrong but it does seem that she is overreacting a bit what with getting the police involved in some of the cases discussed in the OP.
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On July 20 2011 15:12 Tali wrote:
I think she's overreacting. In fact, not only is she overreacting but she is doing one of the worst possible things she could do when confronted by trolls. If you react to a troll, you're just feeding their fire. Ok, you report them to the police. So they'll get a Proxy, or their friend from another country, to troll harder.
All she needs to do to stop the trolling is train Eve, have her win some games, and shut the trolls up!
People talk smack about real athletes ALL THE TIME. And a lot of that is even more baseless than whats said on the internet. When you make yourself a public figure by joining an organization like a sports team you need to be prepared to except that.
I look forward to Eve's career though. I hope we get to see her play and do well. It would be amazing for e-sports to get more girls and not have it be a different league!
You're forgetting that
1.) Some of this trolling is illegal in Korea. There are actual legal consequences for those who were involved so it's not a simple matter of getting a proxy or going through vpn/tor or getting someone else to troll for you.
2.) People talking smack all the time is not a valid defense for acts of defamation and/or harassment. Which is what some of these incidents fall under, at least for Korean law. Open to criticism =/= invitation for harassment and defamation.
3.) There is precedent that, at least in Korea, what you have just stated is completely untrue. Just look at what happened with the incident concerning Flash.
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On July 20 2011 15:20 tripper688 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 15:12 Tali wrote:
I think she's overreacting. In fact, not only is she overreacting but she is doing one of the worst possible things she could do when confronted by trolls. If you react to a troll, you're just feeding their fire. Ok, you report them to the police. So they'll get a Proxy, or their friend from another country, to troll harder.
All she needs to do to stop the trolling is train Eve, have her win some games, and shut the trolls up!
People talk smack about real athletes ALL THE TIME. And a lot of that is even more baseless than whats said on the internet. When you make yourself a public figure by joining an organization like a sports team you need to be prepared to except that.
I look forward to Eve's career though. I hope we get to see her play and do well. It would be amazing for e-sports to get more girls and not have it be a different league! You're forgetting that 1.) Some of this trolling is illegal in Korea. There are actual legal consequences for those who were involved so it's not a simple matter of getting a proxy or going through vpn/tor or getting someone else to troll for you. 2.) People talking smack all the time is not a valid defense for acts of defamation and/or harassment. Which is what some of these incidents fall under, at least for Korean law. Open to criticism =/= invitation for harassment and defamation. 3.) There is precedent that, at least in Korea, what you have just stated is completely untrue. Just look at what happened with the incident concerning Flash.
The thing is that what most of us are talking about is the fact that some people who posted genuine criticism of the stituation on twitter were had their name put in for the law suit. People like Haeun_Cielu who just questioned the idea of picking such a low league person into the team were retweeted by Jessica making him a target for Jessica followers. She had every right to go after the people who photoshopped Eve's face though towards other people she definetly could have done better.
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On July 20 2011 18:14 moonmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 15:20 tripper688 wrote:On July 20 2011 15:12 Tali wrote:
I think she's overreacting. In fact, not only is she overreacting but she is doing one of the worst possible things she could do when confronted by trolls. If you react to a troll, you're just feeding their fire. Ok, you report them to the police. So they'll get a Proxy, or their friend from another country, to troll harder.
All she needs to do to stop the trolling is train Eve, have her win some games, and shut the trolls up!
People talk smack about real athletes ALL THE TIME. And a lot of that is even more baseless than whats said on the internet. When you make yourself a public figure by joining an organization like a sports team you need to be prepared to except that.
I look forward to Eve's career though. I hope we get to see her play and do well. It would be amazing for e-sports to get more girls and not have it be a different league! You're forgetting that 1.) Some of this trolling is illegal in Korea. There are actual legal consequences for those who were involved so it's not a simple matter of getting a proxy or going through vpn/tor or getting someone else to troll for you. 2.) People talking smack all the time is not a valid defense for acts of defamation and/or harassment. Which is what some of these incidents fall under, at least for Korean law. Open to criticism =/= invitation for harassment and defamation. 3.) There is precedent that, at least in Korea, what you have just stated is completely untrue. Just look at what happened with the incident concerning Flash. The thing is that what most of us are talking about is the fact that some people who posted genuine criticism of the stituation on twitter were had their name put in for the law suit. People like Haeun_Cielu who just questioned the idea of picking such a low league person into the team were retweeted by Jessica making him a target for Jessica followers. She had every right to go after the people who photoshopped Eve's face though towards other people she definetly could have done better.
Did they? I don't see any proof for that but instead only see a post saying "No, she is not going after everyone who writes criticism, only after the worst cases"...
Anyways, why is this thread still going? People are bringing the same argument as a thousand posts before...
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On July 20 2011 14:46 Rinnegan5 wrote:
I think its very good what Jessica is doing. Ppl can say awful things on the internet while they arent such heroes in real life. If you can say awful things on the internet then man up and be responsible for your actions too! Also Korea has the highest celebrity suicide rate..I think it would be beyond awful if anything happend to Eve because of the horrific comments on forums and such.
U cant cater freedom of speech to the egoes of celebs. If someone calls me a hamster, and I kill myself because i got hurt, its rather obvious that the insult aint the true reason behind the suicide. As compromising freedom of speech, letting kids be kids rather then destroying their future and lives because of a emo korean suicide culture is not the way to do it. U need to fix the source of the problem rather then stomping out the ripples, and the problems lies in the society.
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I don't see any mention of her suing him or threatening to sue him. She just says (paraphrased) "Maybe you are one of those posting offensive stuff under another name. I hope for your sake that you are not".
The Haeun_Cielu guy seems to try to draw a lot of attention by making unfounded accusations and trying to make Jessica sound like a crazy person. He is definatly not a good source - though i can just judge by your translation.
Unless there is _another_ person on twitter who gives more information, i would consider that case closed. It's just one guy hating another person and blowing it all out of proportion for doing something he doesn't agree with.
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I was reading an article about the splintering of the internet yesterday which states that the golden age of the internet is coming to an end with the organisation of people. When it was first conceived it was a pleasant place to be but with groups like 4chan, facebook, google etc they divide people and this allows for government intervention to filter the internet in some way... this is perhaps another blip on the radar where we're heading with it.
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On July 20 2011 13:06 BLinD-RawR wrote:
wow you guys made this shit so big that now I have to listen to artosis talk about it.
What was his standpoint? I missed it.
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EPT
