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following the counter-strike scene for a while and right now SK-gaming has the worst possible status ever, they dont pay their team or do anything right basically. therefor, im saddend to see 2 great players like MC and NaDa representing such a dirty org. why do they need to any way? they could create their own thing and get way more attention. i'm hoping that SK paid them a lot beforehand, or they will probably end up being screwed in the end.
nada fighting~!
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On July 16 2011 01:11 Olinim wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 01:08 lol wrote:On July 16 2011 00:43 heaven- wrote:
Why are people freaking out...
SK has always had koreans represent them in RTS games.
SK.Lyn
SK.Violet
Etc...etc.. Yes, but when the koreans played for them in WC3 they didn't play for WemadeFOX at the same time. Thats what makes me angry about this whole thing. If you want them (MC and NaDa in this case) to represent your organisation and promote your sponsors, then you fucking cough up some cash to buy them from oGs so they are YOUR PLAYERS. You don't fucking borrow them from another team. But SK is either to stingy to buy them out from oGs, pay them salary and pay trips to tournaments, or they can't afford it. Either way, they must be pretty desperate to have a foot in the sc2 scene when they do like this instead of getting their own team. MC and Nada wouldn't leave oGs for a team with no other players...how would they practice? Seriously. Unless they offered MC a million bucks it wouldn't be worth never winning another tourney cuz he has no practice partners.
I actually thought about that when i first read the news, and it just contributes to how desperate SK are. It's obvious they have little to no pull in this deal, otherwise they would've bought the players out, not made a deal like this.
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On July 16 2011 01:11 Olinim wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 01:08 lol wrote:On July 16 2011 00:43 heaven- wrote:
Why are people freaking out...
SK has always had koreans represent them in RTS games.
SK.Lyn
SK.Violet
Etc...etc.. Yes, but when the koreans played for them in WC3 they didn't play for WemadeFOX at the same time. Thats what makes me angry about this whole thing. If you want them (MC and NaDa in this case) to represent your organisation and promote your sponsors, then you fucking cough up some cash to buy them from oGs so they are YOUR PLAYERS. You don't fucking borrow them from another team. But SK is either to stingy to buy them out from oGs, pay them salary and pay trips to tournaments, or they can't afford it. Either way, they must be pretty desperate to have a foot in the sc2 scene when they do like this instead of getting their own team. MC and Nada wouldn't leave oGs for a team with no other players...how would they practice? Seriously. Unless they offered MC a million bucks it wouldn't be worth never winning another tourney cuz he has no practice partners.
I know, but SK doesn't get this. They need a big, "real" team to come anywhere in Starcraft, but they are to stingy for this. They failed this in Brood War and they failed in SC2 with 3 man lineup and when this deal is over they are back at square 1.
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this mean nada/mc will rule the world ...
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On July 16 2011 00:49 ineq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 00:44 mprs wrote:On July 16 2011 00:35 ineq wrote:On July 16 2011 00:28 stratmatt wrote:On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote:
Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players. Could you please explain to me why this is beneficial for SK? I'm not trying to be hostile or anything. But i'm just seeing this having a negative impact on SK as a brand. They may attract new and uneducated fans, but as has been said before, they'll learn that MC and NaDa actually are not a product of SK, but of oGs, and thus noone will really care that they're representing SK, when oGs is the real reason behind their success. And sponsors will know this aswell, no doubt. The organization will in my opinion look like a bunch of slackers looking for a quick buck, even though that's not the case. Could you please explain to me why having players on a team is beneficial for any team? Teams make money off exposure and advertising. If you read the comments, half the community here has no idea who SK is as an organization. Now they will have top contenders in every foreigner tournament wearing their (and their sponsors) logo. This is basically what every team dreams of. They also developed links to Korea, which no other team has done (aside from TL, because they had ties to Spunky). Do you guys know how many players want the chance to come from Korea to play in foreigner tournaments? Now they can have them on contract. If they sign a few more Koreans by being able to just buy their plane tickets, you will see SK have 3 in the top 5 of every tournament without having to do a single thing. I wouldn't be surprised if they had this planned from this start. Why bother growing a team when this is a risk-free venture for all the rewards of having your own team?!?!? There is a reason the Yankees are the Yankees. Okay, replace "made" with "contributed", and you get my point. SK had absolutely nothing to with the success of these players, and they have no right to display them as their players, unless they buy them from oGs. The only thing SK will do, according to the information at hand, is send them to events outside of Korea, do you think that that's enough to call them SK players? I know i certainly don't. They're taking another teams work and claiming it their own, more or less. And most intelligent people will see through this, that's why i think it's not gonna give them any good publicity. I do on the other hand like that we will get to see NaDa and MC in a huge amount of foreign tournaments though. So from that perspective it's great!
I can see that. But you are overestimating the team involvement and development of foreign teams. The foreign model is mostly disconnected, players never see their teammates or even interact unless somehow they meet at a live event. Only if it's a team-based game there will be more interaction, but for 1v1 games like SC2, it's very disconnected and being on a "team" mostly means sponsorship.
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Team borrows/Loan players from each other all the time in other sports
Why should ur precious esport be any different.
Great puck by SK hope this will lead to prohouse next year and some more good signings
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On July 16 2011 01:11 stratmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 01:06 adeptz wrote:On July 16 2011 01:04 stratmatt wrote:On July 16 2011 01:01 adeptz wrote:On July 16 2011 00:58 stratmatt wrote:
Also, lol at the idea of 'growing' a SC2 team. Sure its a nice story, but SK has already 'grown' its entire organization for 10+ years now. You guys think just any random organization can pull something like this off? SK earned its reputation and can now do this kind of stuff as it sees fit. The reaction to this to me just shows how ignorant a lot of the new sc2 community is when it comes to esports in general. CS was a lot liek this in its very early days, but eventually the business side of things became more understood. At the end of the day, you get to see your favorite players competing in more tournament, and thats great for everybody involved, despite what a few people with sour grapes might think. I see your point - but out of curiousity, when did part-time contracted ringing in dual teams happen "back in the early days"? Ringing was very common in cs at pretty much all times during its life. I know "ringing" was - this isn't filling in for a match mind you. I'm referring to "part-time contracted ringing in dual teams". Big difference. Ok, so now instead of just wasting your time ringing for a team hoping to make some prize money, you get paid to do it and compete more. Sounds like a win/win for MC/Nada. IF OGS was up to it, they should be paying for their players to travel more, but they are not,so oh well huh? I bet MC has been useing his own prize money to travel. Now he wont have to.
Look, i understand the advantages of this move for oGs, it's obvious - the fans win as well because they get to see both players in more international events.
I was just being really nitpicky (unnecessarily so maybe) about your "CS was a lot like this in its early days" because that's inaccurate, it was never like this. The scene then never had this dual team contracted representation at all.
Anyway that's it from me on this 
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On July 16 2011 01:20 Nastiness wrote:
Team borrows/Loan players from each other all the time in other sports
Why should ur precious esport be any different.
Great puck by SK hope this will lead to prohouse next year and some more good signings
Yes, but not like this. If a team loan a player, it is most likely for the season, but this is more like "ok one week i'm a "oGs player" and next week when I'm in USA I will be a "SK player". It doesn't make sense.
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The problem with cs is that it was dieing out before the business of esports was well defined enough to make anything worthwhile. With sc2 we have a brand new game with the enthusiasm and infrastructure needed in place to take esports to a whole new level globally. SK is one of the best esports orgs out there despite what some people here say, and this is the best possible move they could have made. SK's reputation combined with Nada and Mc's is a great thing for sc2 any way you slice it. Plus its nice to see the very best cs team on the same team as the best sc2 players SK doesnt **** around.
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On July 16 2011 01:16 Ownos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 00:49 ineq wrote:On July 16 2011 00:44 mprs wrote:On July 16 2011 00:35 ineq wrote:On July 16 2011 00:28 stratmatt wrote:On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote:
Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players. Could you please explain to me why this is beneficial for SK? I'm not trying to be hostile or anything. But i'm just seeing this having a negative impact on SK as a brand. They may attract new and uneducated fans, but as has been said before, they'll learn that MC and NaDa actually are not a product of SK, but of oGs, and thus noone will really care that they're representing SK, when oGs is the real reason behind their success. And sponsors will know this aswell, no doubt. The organization will in my opinion look like a bunch of slackers looking for a quick buck, even though that's not the case. Could you please explain to me why having players on a team is beneficial for any team? Teams make money off exposure and advertising. If you read the comments, half the community here has no idea who SK is as an organization. Now they will have top contenders in every foreigner tournament wearing their (and their sponsors) logo. This is basically what every team dreams of. They also developed links to Korea, which no other team has done (aside from TL, because they had ties to Spunky). Do you guys know how many players want the chance to come from Korea to play in foreigner tournaments? Now they can have them on contract. If they sign a few more Koreans by being able to just buy their plane tickets, you will see SK have 3 in the top 5 of every tournament without having to do a single thing. I wouldn't be surprised if they had this planned from this start. Why bother growing a team when this is a risk-free venture for all the rewards of having your own team?!?!? There is a reason the Yankees are the Yankees. Okay, replace "made" with "contributed", and you get my point. SK had absolutely nothing to with the success of these players, and they have no right to display them as their players, unless they buy them from oGs. The only thing SK will do, according to the information at hand, is send them to events outside of Korea, do you think that that's enough to call them SK players? I know i certainly don't. They're taking another teams work and claiming it their own, more or less. And most intelligent people will see through this, that's why i think it's not gonna give them any good publicity. I do on the other hand like that we will get to see NaDa and MC in a huge amount of foreign tournaments though. So from that perspective it's great! I can see that. But you are overestimating the team involvement and development of foreign teams. The foreign model is mostly disconnected, players never see their teammates or even interact unless somehow they meet at a live event. Only if it's a team-based game there will be more interaction, but for 1v1 games like SC2, it's very disconnected and being on a "team" mostly means sponsorship.
Surely foreign teams still practice together online and are managed by their teams, right? SK is sending MC and NaDa to events. A financial sponsor. Oh right, they're providing a translator, NaDa and MC are obviously SK players! <------- Internet sarcasm.
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Hey, SK was never on my radar before, but because of this they are now, and i imagine that this is the reason. Simple marketing.
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Strange... it must only be about the money then (transportation costs, salary??).
GL to them both, though as an MC fan I do hope he stays in Korea for a bit to "catch up".
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On July 16 2011 01:27 stratmatt wrote:The problem with cs is that it was dieing out before the business of esports was well defined enough to make anything worthwhile. With sc2 we have a brand new game with the enthusiasm and infrastructure needed in place to take esports to a whole new level globally. SK is one of the best esports orgs out there despite what some people here say, and this is the best possible move they could have made. SK's reputation combined with Nada and Mc's is a great thing for sc2 any way you slice it. Plus its nice to see the very best cs team on the same team as the best sc2 players SK doesnt **** around.
Isn't fucking around what they are doing though? They're dipping a toe, and not putting the whole foot down. It seems to me like they're afraid of taking the big step of making a team of their own, after the failure of their "rookie" team.
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On July 15 2011 18:55 Horst wrote:
I've never heard of SK gaming... who are they?
They're an old school team, started out with Counter Strike, I'm sure anyone that play counter strike would know them.
They competed in CPL, Cyber Professional League and won many championships
On July 16 2011 01:25 lol wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 01:20 Nastiness wrote:
Team borrows/Loan players from each other all the time in other sports
Why should ur precious esport be any different.
Great puck by SK hope this will lead to prohouse next year and some more good signings Yes, but not like this. If a team loan a player, it is most likely for the season, but this is more like "ok one week i'm a "oGs player" and next week when I'm in USA I will be a "SK player". It doesn't make sense.
I think OGS probably doesn't have enough money to sponsor them to go to international events.
SK is a much larger gaming corporation, so they basically said they'll sponsor MC and Nada for international events if they wear SK tag during it.
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Sick news. Dont really get it tho
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On July 16 2011 01:33 ineq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 01:27 stratmatt wrote:The problem with cs is that it was dieing out before the business of esports was well defined enough to make anything worthwhile. With sc2 we have a brand new game with the enthusiasm and infrastructure needed in place to take esports to a whole new level globally. SK is one of the best esports orgs out there despite what some people here say, and this is the best possible move they could have made. SK's reputation combined with Nada and Mc's is a great thing for sc2 any way you slice it. Plus its nice to see the very best cs team on the same team as the best sc2 players SK doesnt **** around. Isn't fucking around what they are doing though? They're dipping a toe, and not putting the whole foot down. It seems to me like they're afraid of taking the big step of making a team of their own, after the failure of their "rookie" team.
How is ponying up the cash to support the best players in the world and give them what they want 'dipping their toe in'? They dont want to pay for subpar players and HOPE things work out in a few years. They want to WIN, and NOW. Like I said, if OGS were up to sending these guys the world over to compete, SK wouldnt have anything to offer them, but in this case they do.
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On July 16 2011 01:20 Nastiness wrote:
Team borrows/Loan players from each other all the time in other sports
Why should ur precious esport be any different.
Great puck by SK hope this will lead to prohouse next year and some more good signings
The way you say it, why form a team when everyone can just borrow all the top players. Let's add Nestea and MvP in this team of theirs as well. Hey its supposed to happen like this all the time... >_>
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On July 16 2011 01:28 ineq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 01:16 Ownos wrote:On July 16 2011 00:49 ineq wrote:On July 16 2011 00:44 mprs wrote:On July 16 2011 00:35 ineq wrote:On July 16 2011 00:28 stratmatt wrote:On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote:
Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players. Could you please explain to me why this is beneficial for SK? I'm not trying to be hostile or anything. But i'm just seeing this having a negative impact on SK as a brand. They may attract new and uneducated fans, but as has been said before, they'll learn that MC and NaDa actually are not a product of SK, but of oGs, and thus noone will really care that they're representing SK, when oGs is the real reason behind their success. And sponsors will know this aswell, no doubt. The organization will in my opinion look like a bunch of slackers looking for a quick buck, even though that's not the case. Could you please explain to me why having players on a team is beneficial for any team? Teams make money off exposure and advertising. If you read the comments, half the community here has no idea who SK is as an organization. Now they will have top contenders in every foreigner tournament wearing their (and their sponsors) logo. This is basically what every team dreams of. They also developed links to Korea, which no other team has done (aside from TL, because they had ties to Spunky). Do you guys know how many players want the chance to come from Korea to play in foreigner tournaments? Now they can have them on contract. If they sign a few more Koreans by being able to just buy their plane tickets, you will see SK have 3 in the top 5 of every tournament without having to do a single thing. I wouldn't be surprised if they had this planned from this start. Why bother growing a team when this is a risk-free venture for all the rewards of having your own team?!?!? There is a reason the Yankees are the Yankees. Okay, replace "made" with "contributed", and you get my point. SK had absolutely nothing to with the success of these players, and they have no right to display them as their players, unless they buy them from oGs. The only thing SK will do, according to the information at hand, is send them to events outside of Korea, do you think that that's enough to call them SK players? I know i certainly don't. They're taking another teams work and claiming it their own, more or less. And most intelligent people will see through this, that's why i think it's not gonna give them any good publicity. I do on the other hand like that we will get to see NaDa and MC in a huge amount of foreign tournaments though. So from that perspective it's great! I can see that. But you are overestimating the team involvement and development of foreign teams. The foreign model is mostly disconnected, players never see their teammates or even interact unless somehow they meet at a live event. Only if it's a team-based game there will be more interaction, but for 1v1 games like SC2, it's very disconnected and being on a "team" mostly means sponsorship. Surely foreign teams still practice together online and are managed by their teams, right? SK is sending MC and NaDa to events. A financial sponsor. Oh right, they're providing a translator, NaDa and MC are obviously SK players! <------- Internet sarcasm.
Some do practice together, many don't.
This is a great move by SK and oGs, it's a win/win/win/win situation. The players will be attending more events while still practicing like before, oGs gets happy players and doesn't have to pay for it, the fans get to see more of MC and Nada and SK gets excellent exposure. The only uncertain bit is if it's worth it for SK but since none of us know what kind of money they have to put out one must assume they believe it's beneficial for them and their sponsors.
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On July 16 2011 01:42 stratmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 01:33 ineq wrote:On July 16 2011 01:27 stratmatt wrote:The problem with cs is that it was dieing out before the business of esports was well defined enough to make anything worthwhile. With sc2 we have a brand new game with the enthusiasm and infrastructure needed in place to take esports to a whole new level globally. SK is one of the best esports orgs out there despite what some people here say, and this is the best possible move they could have made. SK's reputation combined with Nada and Mc's is a great thing for sc2 any way you slice it. Plus its nice to see the very best cs team on the same team as the best sc2 players SK doesnt **** around. Isn't fucking around what they are doing though? They're dipping a toe, and not putting the whole foot down. It seems to me like they're afraid of taking the big step of making a team of their own, after the failure of their "rookie" team. How is ponying up the cash to support the best players in the world and give them what they want 'dipping their toe in'? They dont want to pay for subpar players and HOPE things work out in a few years. They want to WIN, and NOW. Like I said, if OGS were up to sending these guys the world over to compete, SK wouldnt have anything to offer them, but in this case they do.
What SK are doing isn't a serious commitment, it's taking advantage of an infrastructure (ie, OGS's support for their players) that's already in place. This is a risky move for them because the "eeeh wtf?" value may outweigh the "Nada at more international tournaments, yay!" value. It's also risky for MC, Nada and OGS because of the SK organisation's generally poor reputation.
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On July 16 2011 01:42 stratmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 01:33 ineq wrote:On July 16 2011 01:27 stratmatt wrote:The problem with cs is that it was dieing out before the business of esports was well defined enough to make anything worthwhile. With sc2 we have a brand new game with the enthusiasm and infrastructure needed in place to take esports to a whole new level globally. SK is one of the best esports orgs out there despite what some people here say, and this is the best possible move they could have made. SK's reputation combined with Nada and Mc's is a great thing for sc2 any way you slice it. Plus its nice to see the very best cs team on the same team as the best sc2 players SK doesnt **** around. Isn't fucking around what they are doing though? They're dipping a toe, and not putting the whole foot down. It seems to me like they're afraid of taking the big step of making a team of their own, after the failure of their "rookie" team. How is ponying up the cash to support the best players in the world and give them what they want 'dipping their toe in'? They dont want to pay for subpar players and HOPE things work out in a few years. They want to WIN, and NOW. Like I said, if OGS were up to sending these guys the world over to compete, SK wouldnt have anything to offer them, but in this case they do.
Yeah sure, i'm all for oGsMC and oGsNaDa beeing at more events. But the doing this deal does not give any credit to SK, apart from spewing up money. oGs still did the work, and that's they way people are gonna look at it. The benefit of having a team of their own would be much greater, even if they didn't win as often. That's what i mean by dipping a toe. They're not willing to commit, and they're gonna get critisized for it.
Ponying up the cash to send two players to events around the world is a very small fraction of having a team of their own, and they're only gonna get a very small fraction of the credit aswell.
SK is simply a personal sponsor to these two players, as has been said so many times before.
And no, a team and a sponsor is not the same, a sponsor throws money at a team to do the work.
This is why i very much dislike SK claiming NaDa and MC as "their" players.
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EPT
