It seems like a lot of people don't really know SK gaming. Someone posted a reply and summed it up pretty nicely. + Show Spoiler +
SK Gaming is the first professional gaming team, based in Germany, and is probably the most iconic team in history although lately not so much. They have had Korean Warcraft 3 pros among champion CS, Quake, WoW, etc teams.
SK officially announces partnership with oGs by which they MC and NaDa will represent SK Gaming in events outside of South Korea. NaDa's first event will be Assembly Summer.
0 digg SK Gaming is today officially announcing its partnership with Old Generations (oGs) which will see world famous SC2 players Min Chul 'MC' Jang and Yoon-Yeol 'NaDa' Lee representing SK Gaming at events held outside of South Korea. At domestic events, in South Korea, MC and NaDa will play as oGs players, but with an SK Gaming patch on their uniforms. At non-Korean events they will wear SK Gaming uniforms.
NaDa's first event representing SK Gaming will be Assembly Summer 2011 in Finland.
SK Gaming's SC2 division: Min Chul 'MC' Jang Yoon-Yeol 'NaDa' Lee
oGs manager TheWind had the following to say:
"Today the players MC and NaDa are joining the partnership with SK Gaming and we are really happy for them and thankful to SK for this big opportunity. I will do all the best I can to ensure that both players are bringing good results for the partnership of SK Gaming and oGs."
Alexander "TheSlaSH" Mueller, Managing director of SK Gaming, explained:
"Adding those two names to the SK roster and entering this partnership with oGs is one of the most exciting steps SK has taken in the past few years. Ever since we signed Korean players for our RTS section, it has been a blast. We are more than happy to present those two to our community and we are hungry for StarCraft II titles!"
Min-Sik "reis" Ko, player manager of SK Gaming, added:
"I am very happy to welcome those two big names in SC:BW and SC2 history to SK Gaming. I know both privately and I know that both are really nice guys and very ambitious. It's an honor for me to work with both from now on and thanks to oGs for the cooperation."
MC is widely considered to be one of the very best players in the world, if not the best, and has the accomplishments to back up that reputation. He has won two GSL titles, the Dreamhack Invitational and Copenhagen Games. He also placed 3rd-4th at the GSL World Championship, 3rd at MLG Columbus, 3rd at HomeStory Cup III and 2nd at NASL.
NaDa is one of the most famous names in StarCraft history, second perhaps only to that of BoxeR. After the aforementioned 'Emperor' NaDa was the second truly great player to grace Brood War, and is considered second in the lineage of bonjwas who dominated the game. With a record six individual titles and ten finals appearances he still holds a number of records to this day. He was the first player, and now one of four, to ever win the golden mouse, for three OSL titles.
Since switching to SC2 NaDa has proven to be one of the most consistent players in terms of performance level as he has made the Ro8 of GSL's Code S three times, finishing 3rd-4th last season.
I think this should be in the SC2 section and not General forum but holy shi!!! seriously how the hell.... this came so sudden i never heard of any SK related in the past. Best of luck to them I guess they want to try Foreign tournaments more than korean
Really kind of weird in my opinion, I don't really see why MC and Nada can't just play as oGs members.
I don't know if SK Gaming is really renowned as a Starcraft II team so it just feels kind of off to have two of the best players in the world representing them all of a sudden.
Hmm dunno, as long as they are not really leaving oGs, it's not that big of a change. Its just the uniform they are wearing. Nothing about training, housing or similar stuff
On July 15 2011 18:55 RolleMcKnolle wrote: Hmm dunno, as long as they are not really leaving oGs, it's not that big of a change. Its just the uniform they are wearing. Nothing about training, housing or similar stuff
They are basicly representing SK from what im reading in foreign events. Seems kinda a terrible deal for SK as its not really their "Own" players but just someone you bought to represent you
On July 15 2011 18:51 Lowko wrote:At domestic events, in South Korea, MC and NaDa will play as oGs players, but with an SK Gaming patch on their uniforms. At non-Korean events they will wear SK Gaming uniforms.
Wow, don't they already have a TL patch on the oGs uniforms too? How many teams do they want to represent? lol
In his interview after NASL MC said he was done going to foreign events for a while so he could practice more with Koreans. Looks like that's not lasting too long...
Title was a little misleading at least for me, I thought they got them for all events, perhaps someone could make it a little more clear? But this seems like a good deal for everyone involved, which is a good thing.
This is enormous news! SK's seems to sponsor only marquee players in games, and this is going to mean MC and Nada will be able to come to many events! So so cool. Crazy news. MadFrog left SK? He laddered a lot in beta I remember (account with 4000 + games O.O) He seemed to kind of disappear after IEM Cologne. Wow acutally looking around the internet shows that everyone jimpo, inuh and Joe were let go by SK on July 4th, 2011. Damn, SK now only has MC and Nada, no looking to develop players in SC2 I guess. Now SK team/represents: MC, Nada, MC and Nada Congrats!
On July 15 2011 18:59 Netsky wrote: I don't really understand...what exactly does "representing" SK gaming mean? Do they wear an SK gaming badge on their oGs shirt?
On paper it sounds good for SK... but MC recently said he wanted to take a break from foreign tournaments and Nada doesn't even really play in them. That and WCG is in South Korea this year... what else is there? Dreamhack Winter and MLG Providence and that's pretty much it?
Past that we'll have to see... but not much will change in the next 8 months or so.
On July 15 2011 19:01 Let it Raine wrote: sounds like sk is paying for nada/mc's trips, and in return they go under the SK name to basically advertise for them.
or something like that, i have no idea. in any case, awesome. nada and mc to more foreign events!
Pretty cool, but also... disappointing that they can't get two sick players to play for themselves.
With the huge player pool and competition, I would've thought SK would do more than just pay something to two already established players from another team.
Why oGs want to do this? Unless SK offering huge amounts of money for them to represent i don't know. Why is the wind commenting on this anyway? Thought spunky has the overall say in oGs? and the wind is just coach?
On July 15 2011 19:00 jupidar wrote: It is quite expensive for Korean players to travel to foreign events (and vice versa). How well sponsored is oGs?
SK (Schroet Kommando) is a pretty big organisation. Think of it in the line of EG/Mouz/Fnatic/MYM. Those teams always competed with each other (and probably still are) in cs.
The fact that so many people don't know SK Gaming is baffling and hilarious at the same time. Oh, Alex.
SK Gaming is the first professional gaming team, based in Germany, and is probably the most iconic team in history although lately not so much. They have had Korean Warcraft 3 pros among champion CS, Quake, WoW, etc teams. I'd give a hitory lesson but it's 6 AM.
MC and NaDa are not TL/oGs. They are SK/oGs, and they will be flat out SK.NaDa and SK.MC at MLG, Dreamhack, and other non-Korean events.
Congrats to both of them. I've never been a big fan of SK, but it looks like I'll kind of have to be now. :D I wonder what their SC2 uniforms will look like for those two. I always kind of liked the oGs uniform, to be honest.
On July 15 2011 19:05 Slasher wrote: The fact that so many people don't know SK Gaming is baffling and hilarious at the same time. Oh, Alex.
SK Gaming is the first professional gaming team, based in Germany, and is probably the most iconic team in history although lately not so much. They have had Korean Warcraft 3 pros among champion CS, Quake, WoW, etc teams. I'd give a hitory lesson but it's 6 AM.
MC and NaDa are not TL/oGs. They are SK/oGs, and they will be flat out SK.NaDa and SK.MC at MLG, Dreamhack, and other non-Korean events.
They'll wear the tag, some commentators will mention it once, but they'll still be oGsNada and oGsMC for everyone. As you see, here at least, oGs is way more known than SK (which makes no sense, I agree on that one)
On July 15 2011 19:05 Slasher wrote:They are SK/oGs, and they will be flat out SK.NaDa and SK.MC at MLG, Dreamhack, and other non-Korean events.
Which is obviously more than just a sponsorship of SK. Great deal as they will stay in their normal environment at oGs and still rock the whole world! Looking forward to the upcoming events.
I actually think this move is hilarious, its like SK realizes wow we suck at scouting and picking up free agents or signing pros who's contracts or over, or signing and actually PAYING a transfer fee. Here I have an idea, lets just get some big names from a real team and ride their coattails only when they're at foreign events.
I have mixed feelings when reading this. oGs.TL.SK-MC just looks weird. But I have to admit it is a clever move by SK, MC and NaDa are already in a very productive environment and so the european clan makes sure their players stay in top condition, without the need ot take care of the daily training and stuff. Writing this it strikes me that all victorys NaDa and MC will score belong to oGs - not to SK, but I guess that`s nonrelevant when money is involved.
All the hype and then they "recruit" 2 players already on a team? I guess this means we will see them even more often in foreign tournaments but seriously, would have appreciated seeing them have their own sc2 division instead.
oGs will save buttload of money by not having to cover flying and sleeping expenses, and still get the promotion they get anyway, players will get to the events they want to and SK will get representation and exposure they need.
Also, we will get sweet detailed writeups and quality writing on some of our most loved players on one of best gaming sites out there.
Also, I remember SK gaming back from wc3 days, they always had fearsome lineup and I'm looking forward to them taking part in SC2 as a team.
it must be a money thing, to give them enough money to travel to international tournaments... otherwise, why not just have Liquid represent Nada/MC (since oGs uses Liquid in GSTL)
That's both cool, and a bit depressing. I like the fact that the players are getting this opportunity to go to whatever event, worldwide, that they feel like. But it does not give any credibility to SK-Gamings Starcraft II division, MC and NaDa are still oGs-players.
Although i guess this was really the only way for SK to get the best of the best.
Quite expected. Not that they would sign these two specific players, but rather that they would take in some korean blood. TheSlash more or less stated that he would be looking to sign some non-europeans(read:asians) after giving the sack to their entire, pretty mediocre, SC2 team(jimpo, inuh etc.). They also have a history of working with asians in WC3.
Also I don't think this deal costs them enormous amounts. Given that they represent SK in tournaments outside of Korea, I would deem it more likely that the deal says that travel expenses and accomodation is to be paid by SK when they are visiting non-Korean tournaments, in exchange for them bearing the SK logo, rather than them paying a big sum of money to oGs. That would make for a cheap way for oGs to send these players to events in other countries, still being assosiated with them, now only wearing a different logo.
Using the same logic, FXO could pull their team out of Korea, drop them, and with the vast amount of money saved just sponsor Puma, Bomber and MMA to be FXO members outside of S Korea.
But if they did that they'd be called sell-outs.
We'll see how this plays out, but for the mo, it looks like SK doesn't have a clue about SC2 and is just buying their way into the scene by... temporarily "borrowing" the best players on the scene and slapping a virtual brand-name on them.
Why didn't Liquid figured that one out first and make Huk and Jinro wear oGs tags while in Korea, for the exchange of having LiquidNaDa and LiquidMC ?! Huh, I'm not happy with that news. SK were never big in SC:BW and I don't think they should be allowed to "buy" their way into SC2.
So oGs SK and TL all a big happy family? Kinda sucks for TL since it would have been even sicker for them to have MC/Nada play as TL at foreign events.
Guess we are going to see a lot more of MC and NaDa at foreign events now that they get their trips paid for. It's a pretty sweet deal actually and a good way of getting the koreans to non-korean events.
On July 15 2011 19:24 speedphlux wrote: Why didn't Liquid figured that one out first and make Huk and Jinro wear oGs tags while in Korea, for the exchange of having LiquidNaDa and LiquidMC ?! Huh, I'm not happy with that news. SK were never big in SC:BW and I don't think they should be allowed to "buy" their way into SC2.
They are an extremely successful organization. They earned the right to buy their way into markets. Its like saying why are the Miami heat buying their way into a successful team. They should just draft more Dwayne Wades.
Complexity and SK were both very successful organizations but were late to the party. They are going to have to fly these guys around which is more expensive than just having grown their own local team. This is a price they are willing (and more importantly, can) pay. They get a huge advantage of being able to select any Korean player they want from the scene.
On July 15 2011 19:35 jonathan1 wrote: seems kind of pointless. no one is going to consider nada and mc members of SK just because they paid for their plane ticket.
Yet everyone will be talking about it which creates coverage and money for SK.
Sorry, with the growth of leagues (even given soem dead time, we are in the tournament season homestretch being mid summer right now, so its inflating numbers). They'll go to ~10 events a year. I'll give tha tto you Slasher.
And lets pretend they are at an average of 4.5 days per event. That gives SK a grand total of 6 weeks of them in SK jerseys.
feels just weird having them represent SK, the team, outside south korea. I cant think of anything bad for MC or Nada, prolly they will get more money but as someone else said: why cant they just go as OGS?
On July 15 2011 19:39 FarbrorAbavna wrote: feels just weird having them represent SK, the team, outside south korea. I cant think of anything bad for MC or Nada, prolly they will get more money but as someone else said: why cant they just go as OGS?
Yeah agree, this makes no sense at all to me either hahha, they have 0 affiliation with SK-gaming this way. They just pay their tickets..
On July 15 2011 19:39 FarbrorAbavna wrote: feels just weird having them represent SK, the team, outside south korea. I cant think of anything bad for MC or Nada, prolly they will get more money but as someone else said: why cant they just go as OGS?
You just watched 9-10 weeks of NASL, month or so of IPL, which aren't stopping for now. Those are all longer online tournaments which count as SK participation. There are many events for them to represent SK.
What is with this 'oh they're just paying their plane tickets, it's not actually associated or anything' nonsense. Do you understand what the main obligations of a team ARE? Plane and hotel tickets from Korea to the rest of the world are expensive and costly. Additionally, so is having someone with you (specifically SK.Reis, who's translated for Korean players for many many years now for SK) to take care of you. You make it seem like nothing when it's much more.
For those not knowing who SK is, that's your fault. They should be able to buy whatever the hell they want. This is the open market. There's no salary cap. If someone wanted to come in and pay NesTea 500k, or 700k to Flash to move to sc2, that'd be the best thing to happen so far.
SK used to be a team to look up to. Now they can't even afford, or put in the effort to find their own players. Instead they are pushing this practice of players being part of multiple professional teams. Would've been more acceptable (still bad) if it were still BW days, where the communities were segregated a lot more, but that's not the case anymore and I think this hurts honest competition between teams and waters down the concept of teams a lot, to rely on mercenaries like that.
Don't see how an inability to find & fund their own players can be perceived as a good investment in the image of SK by anyone who spends 2 seconds thinking over it & doesn't get carried away by the chance this provides for the players. I'd like to see more NaDa, too, but not in such a two-faced way. I'm afraid I'm more inclined to root against the players as well as SK and ignore them more actively now than I was before.
Let's hope that SK recovers and returns to what they once were. This is just pathetic though, at least from the perspective of a fan of esports as a team endeavor instead of a business. It makes SK look weaker, not stronger, imo.
On July 15 2011 18:57 m0ck wrote: Okay, but doesn't that make SK a sponsor, and not a team?
It should. But they explicitly mentioned
Thorin wrote: At domestic events, in South Korea, MC and NaDa will play as oGs players, but with an SK Gaming patch on their uniforms.
TheSlaSH wrote: Adding those two names to the SK roster and entering this partnership with oGs is one of the most exciting steps SK has taken in the past few years. Ever since we signed Korean players for our RTS section, it has been a blast. We are more than happy to present those two to our community and we are hungry for StarCraft II titles!
This is just retarded if you ask me. SK jumping on the sc2 boat faaaar to late, and ending up with a few mediocre players, now they try to SHARE some korean pros...Really really strange.
SK has never done anything in SC/SC2 as far as I know so I don't really know what the point of this is. The only good point is that we'll probably see MC and Nada in more foreign events.
If this means we get to see more mc and nada (well same amount of mc because he comes to almost everything :D) im happy but i cant help but feel its kinda a publicity stunt for SK after failing with two teams in total now in sc2? oh well gl i hope it works out.
"SK Gaming is an international multi-gaming organisation, gathering together not only the top players of each gaming discipline but also nurturing upcoming talent and making them the stars of today. SK Gaming was founded in 1997 under the name 'Schroet Kommando' in Oberhausen, Germany.
Today, with offices in Cologne, Germany and Stockholm, Sweden and a professional and innovative employee structure, SK Gaming has become a medium-sized business. Business areas include the management of professional esports players, online community, sales of fan merchandise, and promotional events all over the world. More than 50 of today's top professional eSports gamers are with SK Gaming and the basis of the clan's success.
SK has grown from esport clan into a professional business. The people behind the SK Gaming brand have all one thing in common: they share a huge passion for esports, the desire to be the best at all times and the will and ambition to work at it every day. "
Sad to see one of the most classy progamers, NaDa, represent such a sleezy organization like SK. I would have greatly preferred if TL made a deal to have this done instead, but I understand the possible financial problems as MC and NaDa probably command a lot of money.
Whatever the implications for oGs or SK, the fact of the matter is Nada will be attending more foreigner events through this arrangement and that can only be a good thing.
I don't like this. oGs already has a western partner. Imagine if they partner IM to get Nestea and MVP with the same deal. Win for IM win for SK win for the fans.
Doesn't surprise me that much, except for NaDa. MC has been around with Sk.Reis for a lot since he helped him translate stuff etc... Reis was used as translator at some events as well.
On July 15 2011 19:39 FarbrorAbavna wrote: feels just weird having them represent SK, the team, outside south korea. I cant think of anything bad for MC or Nada, prolly they will get more money but as someone else said: why cant they just go as OGS?
Yeah agree, this makes no sense at all to me either hahha, they have 0 affiliation with SK-gaming this way. They just pay their tickets..
Im confused man.
Need to see the details but it looks on the surface that oGs is getting the short end of the stick unless SK is now one of their official sponsors (meaning more cash flow into oGs team)
SK has always been a dipshit organization in my opinion, knowing their history.
But in this case, they took a step forward from their douchbaggery ways and actually allowed the team they are stealing from to remain intact. With this "partnership", SK finds a way to have their own sc2 team without knowing anything about the scene, simply by riding the coattails of an organization that has shown to be talented/solid/stable.
What does oGs do? Scout talent, train talent, schedule practice/matches, feed/shelter/clean up after the players. So what does SK do? Pay.
If that's all they're doing, how is SK different from another regular sponsor? Why call SK their "team" rather than their "sponsor"? SK better be paying shitloads of cash. By shitloads I mean more than that Mom's Touch $180,000 deal oGs snagged a while ago, if MC and NaDa are going to be running around wearing SK tag and uniform while all Mom's Touch gets is a little badge patched onto their sleeves.
just feels like SK is buying advertisement and banking off the fame of people who train with their own team. reminds me of nascar or some shit to be honest.
On July 15 2011 19:40 Serashin wrote: SK made the move that people who know know actualy what is going on just laugh about SK and how much it has fallen.
Quite true. The thing is, TheSlash's policy hasn't been to actually promote their sponsors, but to sugar coat the exposure his players get by going: "We have the most successful players. Now look at the viewer numbers of those events they won." There is no doubt in my mind that a community centered organisation with character would be way more benefitial to their sponsors, but there is no way to prove that. SK is just feeding of the long year reputation (which people created who have long since left the organisation) and it is a mere shade of its former self. Infuriating.
On July 15 2011 19:24 speedphlux wrote: Why didn't Liquid figured that one out first and make Huk and Jinro wear oGs tags while in Korea, for the exchange of having LiquidNaDa and LiquidMC ?! Huh, I'm not happy with that news. SK were never big in SC:BW and I don't think they should be allowed to "buy" their way into SC2.
They are an extremely successful organization. They earned the right to buy their way into markets. Its like saying why are the Miami heat buying their way into a successful team. They should just draft more Dwayne Wades.
Complexity and SK were both very successful organizations but were late to the party. They are going to have to fly these guys around which is more expensive than just having grown their own local team. This is a price they are willing (and more importantly, can) pay. They get a huge advantage of being able to select any Korean player they want from the scene.
Look, Complexity fought their way into the community. They had the huge background, but they didn't immediately jumped shopping around the community. They had a decent starting line-up in their team and only after that squad showed up enough good performances, they started adding players and finally ended up "taking over" ROOT Gaming. In SK's case, it's just plain "corporate thinking" and I don't like that approach. They could've added a couple of free agents, just like coL, made themselves known around the community as a team that performs well and then went on to do stuff like this. That's not a case of "Miami Heat drafting more Dwayne Wades" (I got no clue who Dwayne Wades is, but I know that Miami Heat is a basketball team). That's more a case of "Miami Heat drafting Sebastian Vettel". I don't argue that SK are a great team and deserve success in any area they try their hands into it ... I just don't think they should be allowed to buy themselves insta-success in SC2. Specially when you consider that their SC:BW past has been nothing but a bunch of walkovers, minus the temporary additions of good players. It's just not cool man. Would much rather see LiquidMC and LiquidNaDa over at non-Asian tournaments then SK.MC or SK.NaDa.
I can imagine they had to pay a lot of money for this to happend and I'm afraid they wont pay up. Remember lots of old SK players still havent received money they earned (heaton potti etc) this is like 5 years back ><
On July 15 2011 19:39 FarbrorAbavna wrote: feels just weird having them represent SK, the team, outside south korea. I cant think of anything bad for MC or Nada, prolly they will get more money but as someone else said: why cant they just go as OGS?
Yeah agree, this makes no sense at all to me either hahha, they have 0 affiliation with SK-gaming this way. They just pay their tickets..
Im confused man.
Need to see the details but it looks on the surface that oGs is getting the short end of the stick unless SK is now one of their official sponsors (meaning more cash flow into oGs team)
I don't think that this deal was made without any money involved
On July 15 2011 19:47 DwD wrote: I can imagine they had to pay a lot of money for this to happend and I'm afraid they wont pay up. Remember lots of old SK players still havent received money they earned (heaton potti etc) this is like 5 years back ><
Yea, SK-gamings reputation isn't the best, with the money fighting with players and childish contract fights with FnaticMSI.
More team drama in SC2 will come with this i guess.
On July 15 2011 19:41 Logros wrote: SK has never done anything in SC/SC2 as far as I know so I don't really know what the point of this is. The only good point is that we'll probably see MC and Nada in more foreign events.
Let's hope SK doesn't push them into lesser events for extra publicity, that would be bad for their GSL runs.
I think this is great. SK is pretty well known, even outside the Starcraft circles, so it's good that Starcraft II is getting its due attention from pro gaming teams.
SK does more than pay alone, it's also helpful for the koreans to have a translator around, which SK.Reis is... and MC knows Reis pretty good already probably, which made the decision easier.
Looks like a win-win situation for both sides, SK gets its name out there since the SC2 community generally has no clue who they are(despite having a f0rest on their team, who doesn't know f0rest?!??!!? T_T), and oGs gets free plane tickets.
Interesting. I thought MC said he was going to stay in Korea for the next 2 months since foreign tournaments have been taking a toll on his training and practice. I hope he doesn't drop off from being a top tier player if SK gets too demanding and force him to play everywhere.
Wow can't believe people in such an e-sports related site have not heard about SK, who always have been one of the, if not the, most high profile Western e-sports team out there. Anyway seems like a good deal for both regardless of what the terms are. I can not imagine OGS gains that much from EU/US publicity anyway, i personally have no idea who they are sponsored by, but I assume it is mainly by korean sponsors. So sending MC/Nada to EU/US events its like "great all these people love our players and team, but they have no connection at all to our sponsors as they are all korean based so we get nothing out of all of this"
I didn't really get this. Does this mean NaDa and MC will stay with oGs which are partnering up with SK to let them participate in international tourneys? If yes, why did "SK aquired those gamers" and they are on their roster now? Does this mean they are basically playing for two teams now?
On July 15 2011 19:39 FarbrorAbavna wrote: feels just weird having them represent SK, the team, outside south korea. I cant think of anything bad for MC or Nada, prolly they will get more money but as someone else said: why cant they just go as OGS?
Yeah agree, this makes no sense at all to me either hahha, they have 0 affiliation with SK-gaming this way. They just pay their tickets..
Im confused man.
Need to see the details but it looks on the surface that oGs is getting the short end of the stick unless SK is now one of their official sponsors (meaning more cash flow into oGs team)
It's actually quite smart I'd say, in terms of advertising at least. oGs as a team targetting on advertising to the korean market, SK gaming doing the same thing but for the english speaking world. oGs gets their players flown around cheaper,
The oGs-TL deal never seemed to be about marketing at all, TL marketing has always been minimal compared to that of other teams.
OGS is sponsor by mostly korean companies, so even though nada and MC are representing OGS by going overseas, the revenue they are going to get from it are not that much. Where else SK product/sponsor are more international, so wearing SK uniform for international event makes sense.
Its a great deal for SK, Nada and MC get more exposure(and money of cause) and ogs/& sponsor isn't directly affected by it(I am assuming ogs will get paid by SK for loaning the players).
On July 15 2011 19:51 Earll wrote: Wow can't believe people in such an e-sports related site have not heard about SK, who always have been one of the, if not the, most high profile Western e-sports team out there. Anyway seems like a good deal for both regardless of what the terms are. I can not imagine OGS gains that much from EU/US publicity anyway, i personally have no idea who they are sponsored by, but I assume it is mainly by korean sponsors. So sending MC/Nada to EU/US events its like "great all these people love our players and team, but they have no connection at all to our sponsors as they are all korean based so we get nothing out of all of this"
This is a STARCRAFT related site, and SK has never done anything with SC. It doesn't surprise me at all that some people here have little knowledge about SK.
On July 15 2011 19:53 Blackrobe wrote: I don't understand this at all.
SK-oGs-TL? huh?
More likely than not, SK is paying a ton in the form of salary / contribution to the team oGs. Just think of SK as a sponsor rather than a team. In return, MC and Nada wears a SK jersey when they're outside of Korea.
That and oGs-TL is more of a training partnership where as the oGs-SK deal is a business partnership. TL and SK have no affiliation whatsoever (unless it explicitly says TL is but that is highly improbable).
SK is one of the best run organizations in esports. I personally know SK.Kane (we live in the same town), the founder of SK who is a professional soccer player now. It is amazing to see how SK developed from a fun clan to what it is right now. This is really a great deal for SK, showing how big SC2 already is. Indicating that there likely is more to come, this is just great news.
I like the partnership idea between western and korean teams, but there shouldnt be a korean team with 2 western partners. Just seems to lose the whole "team" aspect.
On July 15 2011 19:41 Slasher wrote: You just watched 9-10 weeks of NASL, month or so of IPL, which aren't stopping for now. Those are all longer online tournaments which count as SK participation. There are many events for them to represent SK.
How?
What is with this 'oh they're just paying their plane tickets, it's not actually associated or anything' nonsense. Do you understand what the main obligations of a team ARE?
On July 15 2011 18:55 Horst wrote: I've never heard of SK gaming... who are they?
SK is known as arguably the most successful pro gaming team in history. They have a long history with CS and Warcraft 3, and other games. I think the op mentions they are the first ever pro team in europe? Not sure but they have been around for a long time.
This might make sense for sponsors but as a fan I still feel like I would be cheering on oGsMC and oGsNada. Very strange. It feels like they're just borrowing players for these tournaments.
On July 15 2011 20:09 Horse...falcon wrote: This might make sense for sponsors but as a fan I still feel like I would be cheering on oGsMC and oGsNada. Very strange. It feels like they're just borrowing players for these tournaments.
If it had been TL it would've been different.
Then it still would have been silly. Its just basically a sponsorship now. "Biggest multi-gaming team" cant even get their own team together. Its justembarrassing T_T
On July 15 2011 18:55 motumbo wrote: This is insane. I wonder what SK had to do to get this deal through.
Probably something along the lines that they pay for the trips aboard. So basically oGs gets marketing and presence outside of Korea for free, while SK can get their hands on two awesome players.
On July 15 2011 19:41 Slasher wrote: What is with this 'oh they're just paying their plane tickets, it's not actually associated or anything' nonsense. Do you understand what the main obligations of a team ARE? Plane and hotel tickets from Korea to the rest of the world are expensive and costly. Additionally, so is having someone with you (specifically SK.Reis, who's translated for Korean players for many many years now for SK) to take care of you. You make it seem like nothing when it's much more.
Just because you pay for the flight doesn't make them YOUR team. Mom's touch gave oGs a $180,000 deal, just to be named one of the sponsors, and a little patch sewed onto their sleeve.
Are plane/hotel tickets as expensive and costly as you thought, now that we are talking in 6 figures?
So what is SK doing that is beyond a simple sponsorship? This reis chaperone you are telling me about?
On July 15 2011 20:09 Horse...falcon wrote: This might make sense for sponsors but as a fan I still feel like I would be cheering on oGsMC and oGsNada. Very strange. It feels like they're just borrowing players for these tournaments.
If it had been TL it would've been different.
Then it still would have been silly. Its just basically a sponsorship now. "Biggest multi-gaming team" cant even get their own team together. Its justembarrassing T_T
Perhaps SC2 players doesn't break contracts like CS players, makes it hard for SK.
On July 15 2011 20:09 Horse...falcon wrote: This might make sense for sponsors but as a fan I still feel like I would be cheering on oGsMC and oGsNada. Very strange. It feels like they're just borrowing players for these tournaments.
If it had been TL it would've been different.
Then it still would have been silly. Its just basically a sponsorship now. "Biggest multi-gaming team" cant even get their own team together. Its justembarrassing T_T
I see it that way also. They can not afford any players, so they will pay tickets so Nada and MC can play foreign events and "represent" them.
SK has really fallen from grace, they used to be a big name in esports.
I don't see how people can like this? I mean as i said before, it's nothing but awesome for MC and NaDa. But not a single person is gonna consider these players "SK Pro's", they're still gonna be oGs players in everyone's minds. SK is sponsoring these players, they're not part of the SK team. It's like saying TLAF is a SC2 team, because they're paying the Liquid guys salary & expenses.
I can stretch as far as seeing it as SK loaning the players, which happens regularly in other sports.
Don't get me wrong, i love that players are getting money thrown at them from organizations. I just dislike that SK even consider MC & NaDa a part of their team. They're not gonna practice with other SK team members, they're in a teamhouse with another team, which they are also contracted to, thus all the credit should, and will go to oGs & TheWind. Not SK & TheSlaSh.
Long story short; SK is taking the easiest possible way to the most exposure possible. Then again SK has not been a respectable organization in a long time. (we miss you bds)
Have to stress that MC & NaDa are not at all doing anything wrong here, why would they not take the offer? Even if they don't get another salary (which i would think they are) they're still getting trips paid to wherever they want to, that oGs might not have been able to afford.
On July 15 2011 20:15 nufcrulz wrote: dont get the point of this, why can't SK go find their own teamless koreans to join their team? Doesn't oGs already have a partnership with TL anyway?
Apparently the TL/oGs partnership isn't that deep, when a confusing threewaylike this appears.
It's basically like slapping a big "hey look at us" sticker on guys that are already in a team, I don't see this as a new team as such, just a sponsor, like razor and steelseries. This is amazing news though. Anything that will get NaDa overseas is great in my books.
On July 15 2011 20:15 nufcrulz wrote: dont get the point of this, why can't SK go find their own teamless koreans to join their team? Doesn't oGs already have a partnership with TL anyway?
Apparently the TL/oGs partnership isn't that deep, when a confusing threewaylike this appears.
oGs-TL is a pragmatic relationship where they train and live together. oGs-SK is a business relationship where MC and NaDa are basically mercenaries. TL and SK are both offering something different to oGs and neither offers are conflicting. Its not like SK is forcing some players to live with oGs-TL at their team house nor is TL in any kind of (at least known) business relationship with oGs. Just think of it like - TLAF is to Team Liquid what SK is to MC/NaDa.
(no matter what sk says, they're just sponsoring oGs. no one believes for a second MC / NaDa are in the SK team.)
Don't get the criticism. These guys are both incredible players, if SK wants to throw money at them and help them come to foreign events more power to them.
On July 15 2011 20:18 ineq wrote: I don't see how people can like this? I mean as i said before, it's nothing but awesome for MC and NaDa. But not a single person is gonna consider these players "SK Pro's", they're still gonna be oGs players in everyone's minds. SK is sponsoring these players, they're not part of the SK team. It's like saying TLAF is a SC2 team, because they're paying the Liquid guys salary & expenses.
I can stretch as far as seeing it as SK loaning the players, which happens regularly in other sports.
Don't get me wrong, i love that players are getting money thrown at them from organizations. I just dislike that SK even consider MC & NaDa a part of their team. They're not gonna practice with other SK team members, they're in a teamhouse with another team, which they are also contracted to, thus all the credit should, and will go to oGs & TheWind. Not SK & TheSlaSh.
Long story short; SK is taking the easiest possible way to the most exposure possible. Then again SK has not been a respectable organization in a long time. (we miss you bds)
Have to stress that MC & NaDa are not at all doing anything wrong here, why would they not take the offer? Even if they don't get another salary (which i would think they are) they're still getting trips paid to wherever they want to, that oGs might not have been able to afford.
Hit the nail on the head. I find it despicable that SK has NaDa and MC listed under "players", right under their counter-strike squad. THEY ARE NOT YOUR TEAM. THEY ARE TEAM OGS.
Sounds pretty smart from the perspective of oGs, they don't have to pay and organize the trips to foreign tournaments anymore and everyone will still think of them as oGs players no matter what shirt they wear.
From the perspective of SK it is basically a capitulation though: "we can't get a good team on our own so we just sponsor a few players of another team to represent us and show shiny pictures to our sponsors."
I mean I like more Nada and MC in foreign tournaments but I won't think of them as SK players
On July 15 2011 20:24 Duravi wrote: Don't get the criticism. These guys are both incredible players, if SK wants to throw money at them and help them come to foreign events more power to them.
I think that what you just mentioned is nothing but great. But the fact that SK are saying on their website that they "acquired MC and NaDa in oGs deal" pisses me off a whole lot.
It should say "SK act as a personal sponsor for MC & NaDa."
edit; it's kind of ironic that MC has a oGs shirt on SK-Gaming.com's roster.
On July 15 2011 20:24 Duravi wrote: Don't get the criticism. These guys are both incredible players, if SK wants to throw money at them and help them come to foreign events more power to them.
My thoughts exactly. MC brings so much flair and personality to every event he joins, plus his great play obviously. If SK gets him to go more places to boss it up, while I watch on stream, then thats a win.
As i've said before, acquiring jimpo, inuh and Joe was very unexcepted move from SK. They've always been the european powerhouse where money talks. When they announced that they would be revealing a new lineup on the 15th, i thought that they would be recruiting 2-3 top tier Koreans. They propably just checked a pricelist for players and picked the two most expensive ones.
Nothing wrong with that, just shows that they've got some real sponsorships and influence.
On July 15 2011 20:09 Horse...falcon wrote: This might make sense for sponsors but as a fan I still feel like I would be cheering on oGsMC and oGsNada. Very strange. It feels like they're just borrowing players for these tournaments.
If it had been TL it would've been different.
Then it still would have been silly. Its just basically a sponsorship now. "Biggest multi-gaming team" cant even get their own team together. Its justembarrassing T_T
I see it that way also. They can not afford any players, so they will pay tickets so Nada and MC can play foreign events and "represent" them.
SK has really fallen from grace, they used to be a big name in esports.
This'll make it easier for NaDa and MC to come out and play foreign tournaments. Ergo, it's a good thing.
Also, I know this is a Brood War/SC2 community but seriously, how can one not be a fan, even less not know of, SK? They've been a vital part of the, arguably small, eSports scene in the west for a long time.
On July 15 2011 20:09 Horse...falcon wrote: This might make sense for sponsors but as a fan I still feel like I would be cheering on oGsMC and oGsNada. Very strange. It feels like they're just borrowing players for these tournaments.
If it had been TL it would've been different.
Then it still would have been silly. Its just basically a sponsorship now. "Biggest multi-gaming team" cant even get their own team together. Its justembarrassing T_T
I see it that way also. They can not afford any players, so they will pay tickets so Nada and MC can play foreign events and "represent" them.
SK has really fallen from grace, they used to be a big name in esports.
Agreed - this is terrible for eSports imo.
Nothing involving players making a shit ton of money is bad for eSports. It is on the other hand bad for SK-Gaming's image. But noone cares about SK anymore anyway.
Although i guess if you're on the outside looking in, and don't know about this whole "oGs-SK deal" then it's good for their image. But i doubt anyone that has any kind of insight would like what SK is trying to achieve.
Smart move my SK gives them more representation more people might wanna join. Haven't heard much of them in years but I remember hearing about them all over the place when I was younger.
One thing I'll never forget is their SK-Believe fragtage where they follow one of their teams through a Tournament. Its SO GOOD.
SK-Gaming is huge organisation. It was a matter of time to have SC2 team with all that SC2 community boom. Didn't expect such a move, but ... GL & HF to MC, NaDa and SK ;-)
I'm not entirely sure why this happened. I'll never see MC or Nada and say SK FIGHTING! They represent SK on paper but I'll never see it that way. I know they're Old Generations and that's how it'll stay to me.
Awesome. If I'm not mistaken, NaDa practices in his spare time when he is not at studying. I wonder how he can perform to a standard not only expected by the oGs team, but by SK...at the same time.
Was really hoping for SK to go all out on their SC2-team after releasing their former lineup. This feels like a cheap half way stance for SK to take. Borrowing oGs members for western exposure.
I highly doubt that anyone will see them as SK-players while competing. They will be oGsMC and oGsNaDa to the community.
On July 15 2011 18:59 Vasoline73 wrote: SK as in SKT1? If so, I'm waiting for Yellow and ForGG to join KT's newly formed SC2 team
no it's the (Swedish?) E-sport team SK, mostly famous for their CS team, and some other stuff
No Sk gaming is a german company they do have one of the best cs teams With all swedish players yes, but they also house great quake players like rapha
On the one hand, Cool. Nada and MC don't have to worry about their oGs sponsors being very korea-centric and can compete outside of korea.
On the other hand, it paints a picture in which no non-korean teams have any members they're just paying to have korean pros represent them, is that the future people want? Yuck.
this is stupid. sk should just man up and buy their own players. why partner with another team when you can easily afford to buy your own.
seems like they are trying to cut corners to me. trying to put up good results for their sponsors without actually being the reason for the success they get. ex: ogs' training house.
On July 15 2011 20:42 Dingobloo wrote: On the other hand, it paints a picture in which no non-korean teams have any members they're just paying to have korean pros represent them, is that the future people want? Yuck.
They're paying to win, essentially.
On the other hand, now other foreign teams will have to recruit Koreans if they wish to compete. Which, in turn, will eventually result in there being no real foreign teams and no foreign scene? Who knows. :D
SK are stupid, people love teams who love and care for their players. SK just takes someone they think will do well, then they dont give them enough time. Kicks them out. and now they're "borrowing" players? its stupid. SK is doing sc2 completely wrong.
Altho from my experience SK Gaming are Allways late to pay their cash to their team members hotel/food tickets etc And this is most likely a desperate move to try Lift their Logo or whatever up.
They still had to pay money to CS 1.6 Teams back in the days and it took them 3-4years?
Would be bad if they treat those 2 the same way they treated most of their "team"
*Not trying to make them look bad but It seems they are like Bah our members sucks lets get some hard core koreans ow yeah that will be good , and then if they don't prove to be "Good" kick them lets hire some one else.
will anyone actually regard them as SK players even at foreign events? What is SK doing, seriously, all i gather from this is "SK will be giving free airfares to oGs players"
Good deal for MC and Nada, but I don't see what SK is hoping to achieve with that move. Recruting mercenaries and not having their own lineup isn't doing any good for them. Anyway, the only thing I really care about in this is that we will see MC and Nada more at foreigner's events, and I will still think of them as part of oGs, not SK.
On July 15 2011 20:45 Chodes wrote: Wonder how much SK had to pay for NaDa and MC? i imagine would be as mush as a team full of mediocre-good pro-gamers
Propably a huge amount, yes. That's what SK is basically about, investing money while looking for a great profit. They're not that much into real eSports anymore.
I don#t like it. Rather than seeking out talents they just bought names. "hello we have da money who is best since he will join us harhar".
But i guess thats what professionalism means in the end. Sad thing for teams who actually invest in teamhouses and training to support their players on the road to the top instead of just buying the guys on the top.
On July 15 2011 20:18 ineq wrote: I don't see how people can like this? I mean as i said before, it's nothing but awesome for MC and NaDa. But not a single person is gonna consider these players "SK Pro's", they're still gonna be oGs players in everyone's minds. SK is sponsoring these players, they're not part of the SK team. It's like saying TLAF is a SC2 team, because they're paying the Liquid guys salary & expenses.
I can stretch as far as seeing it as SK loaning the players, which happens regularly in other sports.
Don't get me wrong, i love that players are getting money thrown at them from organizations. I just dislike that SK even consider MC & NaDa a part of their team. They're not gonna practice with other SK team members, they're in a teamhouse with another team, which they are also contracted to, thus all the credit should, and will go to oGs & TheWind. Not SK & TheSlaSh.
Long story short; SK is taking the easiest possible way to the most exposure possible. Then again SK has not been a respectable organization in a long time. (we miss you bds)
Have to stress that MC & NaDa are not at all doing anything wrong here, why would they not take the offer? Even if they don't get another salary (which i would think they are) they're still getting trips paid to wherever they want to, that oGs might not have been able to afford.
Dont you see the whole picture this deal is worth A LOT for SK and both players, appearance of Nada or MC brings hundreads of people and they will go both. Its win-win situation for players/organisation/tournaments/viewer. Good move for Sk actually, Nada + MC are more valuable outside of Korea rather than playing korean events (ironically).
Although that move came surprising, it actually makes sense considering the state esports is in, and what esports is becoming due to Starcraft 2.
If esports keeps growing, it will not be long until we wish SK Gaming back, I think. The same way as most of us wish the good old "Schroet Kommando" back. Teams and companies are turning into ruthless competitors, and that is not entirely a bad thing. I think it is great, because the quality of the sport will rise. On the other hand, the communities will suffer to some extent.
Partnerships like this are superficial, though yet important. That is a paradox that only occurs if a business turns into a business.
I'm extremely surprised to hear this, considering all the bad publicity SK has had in the past...
Part of me hopes that we will get to see NaDa at more events which I am able to attend in person, but most of me wonders how long it will take the players to feel jilted in this relationship. I just feel like SK is just jumping on the SC2 bandwagon because it is popular now. I'm hoping that when they realize the scene is actually very competitive, and that their players aren't insta-winning everything, that they won't just drop them like a hot stone... =0\
On July 15 2011 20:46 Roggay wrote: Good deal for MC and Nada, but I don't see what SK is hoping to achieve with that move. Recruting mercenaries and not having their own lineup isn't doing any good for them. Anyway, the only thing I really care about in this is that we will see MC and Nada more at foreigner's events, and I will still think of them as part of oGs, not SK.
Well, they'll probably end up paying 5-15k / year on travel expenses (not counting Reis). With that moeny, they maybe could've afforded a second tier european/na player (in the lines of idk, Stephano, Tod, Sase, etc) but absolutely not a first tier one - White-Ra, Nerchio, Thorzain and so on.
So they decided that if that's the only money they want to put in, might as well make this deal and tie some big names to the team.
It's embarrassing to list the players on their team roster (and oGs as ex-team), they're still screwing their image over, and I'm still baffled that they're not understanding that people will still consider them a sponsor at best, while NaDa and MC 100% oGs.
But at least I suppose this was the thought-process behind it.
On July 15 2011 20:44 Shaoling wrote: SK are stupid, people love teams who love and care for their players. SK just takes someone they think will do well, then they dont give them enough time. Kicks them out. and now they're "borrowing" players? its stupid. SK is doing sc2 completely wrong.
Well, that's like your opinion. In every sport where money is involved, teams with plenty of mostly buy their team together, while the smaller teams have raise potential players.
On July 15 2011 20:18 ineq wrote: I don't see how people can like this? I mean as i said before, it's nothing but awesome for MC and NaDa. But not a single person is gonna consider these players "SK Pro's", they're still gonna be oGs players in everyone's minds. SK is sponsoring these players, they're not part of the SK team. It's like saying TLAF is a SC2 team, because they're paying the Liquid guys salary & expenses.
I can stretch as far as seeing it as SK loaning the players, which happens regularly in other sports.
Don't get me wrong, i love that players are getting money thrown at them from organizations. I just dislike that SK even consider MC & NaDa a part of their team. They're not gonna practice with other SK team members, they're in a teamhouse with another team, which they are also contracted to, thus all the credit should, and will go to oGs & TheWind. Not SK & TheSlaSh.
Long story short; SK is taking the easiest possible way to the most exposure possible. Then again SK has not been a respectable organization in a long time. (we miss you bds)
Have to stress that MC & NaDa are not at all doing anything wrong here, why would they not take the offer? Even if they don't get another salary (which i would think they are) they're still getting trips paid to wherever they want to, that oGs might not have been able to afford.
Dont you see the whole picture this deal is worth A LOT for SK and both players, appearance of Nada or MC brings hundreads of people and they will go both. Its win-win situation for players/organisation/tournaments/viewer. Good move.
I do see the whole picture. MC & NaDa will go to foreign events, which is great. SK will get no credit because these players are not really a part of their team. They are oGs-players.
Actually the more i think about it, the more i like it. I have not liked SK in years. Ever since the whole incident with the SK allstar CS-team back in '03. And this just pulls their name deeper down the drain, without hurting anyone but themselves. It is indeed a win-win! On second thought i really love it!
It's embarrassing to list the players on their team roster (and oGs as ex-team), they're still screwing their image over, and I'm still baffled that they're not understanding that people will still consider them a sponsor at best, while NaDa and MC 100% oGs. But at least I suppose this was the thought-process behind it.
well to be fair the list SK-Gaming as former team as well... so looks more like stupid rather than malicious.
This is pretty interesting. I always thought that oGs had a lack of big name sponsors for a team that is one of the best in SC2. People may support oGs but they probably had no idea who the sponsors are and their sponsors might only be domestic. So I'm glad that MC and Nada are getting the type of international backing that oGs could not provide. As fans, SK will be able to provide us better player interviews, organize more fan-meeting sessions. MC and Nada will actually get a professional translator and they're no longer reliant on tournament organizers for their welfare in international tournaments. WeMadeFox had a manager for Moon at all times which oGs should have done. I remember reading comments by JulyZerg that the conditions they were put in were not ideal. But really, it isn't the job of the tournament organizers to accommodate them, it should be the team's responsibility.
Not really sure whether it is a good move for SK. If international events do grow bigger than the GSL and if the GSL starts holding more events outside of Korea like at Blizzcon, we will see MC and Nada wearing SK uniforms sans any oGs logo more often. So it might not be that bad.
As far as I'm concerned, if SK can provide better support and welfare to Nada and MC better than oGs could, I consider them SK players instead of oGs players cause they would be the organization that is putting in all the effort for these players.
Idk about this, feels like SK is a sponsor for oGs. Paying these two players to participate in foreign events to market their brand (SK).
I dont rly consider Nada and MC to be a part of the SK roster. More like if Nvidia decided to sponsor oGs to send players and in return they get their brand printed on the T-shirt....
Good move from oGs part, bad move by SK. Would prefer if they got their own team
Really good for MC and Nada who get free tickets to go rape some foreigners and bring back the money. Almost sure it is also an additional stream of money for oGs, which is good. The worse off the deal is SK: do they really think we will believe MC and Nada are part of the "SK" SC2 team????They are oGs. How I see it, it is even making SK looks like idiot, not being able to recruit and train new talents to make a name on their own.
Good for oGs, good for viewers who get to see more MC and Nada, not sure it is that good for SK
On July 15 2011 20:46 Roggay wrote: Good deal for MC and Nada, but I don't see what SK is hoping to achieve with that move. Recruting mercenaries and not having their own lineup isn't doing any good for them. Anyway, the only thing I really care about in this is that we will see MC and Nada more at foreigner's events, and I will still think of them as part of oGs, not SK.
Well, they'll probably end up paying 5-15k / year on travel expenses (not counting Reis). With that moeny, they maybe could've afforded a second tier european/na player (in the lines of idk, Stephano, Tod, Sase, etc) but absolutely not a first tier one - White-Ra, Nerchio, Thorzain and so on.
So they decided that if that's the only money they want to put in, might as well make this deal and tie some big names to the team.
It's embarrassing to list the players on their team (and oGs as ex-team), they're still screwing their image over, and I'm still baffled that they're not understanding that people will still consider them a sponsor at best, while NaDa and MC 100% oGs.
But at least I suppose this was the thought-process behind it.
They understand it perfectely i imagine, SK move is brilliant in cost efficiency, SK was never affiliated with SC brand, even after SC2 came out many people didnt know who Jimpo was. So their primary target is recognition by non SC2 fans, and SC2 nowadays is hot product. They will send Nada/MC to every big foreign tournament and many people will be hyped to see koreans (probably many non sc2 viewers will be interested), and what they see ? Koreans in SK jerseys, thought process will be simple : oh THAT Sk (which had for few years always the best CS team) is having even top koreans so that HAS to be imbaimba good organisation. All that for low price ( i guess).
SC2 is business today, everyone is milking the cow while it last, even players individually(idra destiny, tyler, and 30 others). Cant blame them.
lol, first thought SK was for South Korea and Nada and MC were gonna play on the national team or something Excellent, we'll see more MC and Nada around, always a good thing
That's so weird/cheap/ugly(?) to see a prestigious team like SK being brought down to "borrowing" players in order to shine a little bit during international events.
I know it's huge, but i would like to see SK acquiring and developping a real line up, forming upcoming stars and get a nice return on investment, make themself a name on SC² in a "righteous" way. Just my point.
Seriously guys whats so hard to understand about this? SK signed 2 famous players with huge following so they can put their sponsors on them at international events. They gain a lot more exposure this way rather than trying to bring up new players. I think its a very smart business decision. E-Sports is also business first . If there is no money we wont have any competitions and the scene will die.
On July 15 2011 21:08 careohx wrote: Seriously guys whats so hard to understand about this? SK signed 2 famous players with huge following so they can put their sponsors on them at international events. They gain a lot more exposure this way rather than trying to bring up new players. I think its a very smart business decision. E-Sports is also business first . If there is no money we wont have any competitions and the scene will die.
The majority of people watching every event apart from maybe MLG and Dreamhack will all be aware of what is going on, thus dragging the SK brand in the mud.
At the end of the day, i think SK would be much better off if they legitimately tried to make a team of their own instead of trying to cheat their way to success.
On July 15 2011 21:08 careohx wrote: Seriously guys whats so hard to understand about this? SK signed 2 famous players with huge following so they can put their sponsors on them at international events. They gain a lot more exposure this way rather than trying to bring up new players. I think its a very smart business decision. E-Sports is also business first . If there is no money we wont have any competitions and the scene will die.
Well it will work only with newbies, and even then as soon as they go " MC is SK" someone will smash their face and say " No son, MC is oGs, SK is just paying him to wear this jersey, like a little whore". And now SK doesnt look that good :D Coz SC2, while gaining exposure, is still relatively a connaisseur market...
On July 15 2011 18:55 Animostas wrote: Really kind of weird in my opinion, I don't really see why MC and Nada can't just play as oGs members.
I don't know if SK Gaming is really renowned as a Starcraft II team so it just feels kind of off to have two of the best players in the world representing them all of a sudden.
Because they have had top teams in every other game and are extremely wealthy
On July 15 2011 21:08 Dexs wrote: That's so weird/cheap/ugly(?) to see a prestigious team like SK being brought down to "borrowing" players in order to shine a little bit during international events.
I know it's huge, but i would like to see SK acquiring and developping a real line up, forming upcoming stars and get a nice return on investment, make themself a name on SC² in a "righteous" way. Just my point.
On July 15 2011 21:08 careohx wrote: Seriously guys whats so hard to understand about this? SK signed 2 famous players with huge following so they can put their sponsors on them at international events. They gain a lot more exposure this way rather than trying to bring up new players. I think its a very smart business decision. E-Sports is also business first . If there is no money we wont have any competitions and the scene will die.
The majority of people watching every event apart from maybe MLG and Dreamhack will all be aware of what is going on, thus dragging the SK brand in the mud.
At the end of the day, i think SK would be much better off if they legitimately tried to make a team of their own instead of trying to cheat their way to success.
Considering that these international events have been won mostly by Koreans, I don't think any team they made would win much of anything. Even worse, I don't think I'll even know what players they have in their roster. I bet most people don't even know that hey had an SC2 team. ROFL.
This reminds me of the European speedway scene. There the best riders in the world represents different clubs depending on if they drive in England, Sweden or Poland. While it earns the riders more money it makes the team spirit very lackluster, and a lot of the audience has gotten less and less interested, the drivers are being their for their own money, not to help their team.
While it being a necessary bad, it hurts the sport itself.
I hope that we wont see a lot of team jumping in in starcraft 2 and the teams can get some more money to work on their own teams image etc in the way they would like.
On July 15 2011 21:08 careohx wrote: Seriously guys whats so hard to understand about this? SK signed 2 famous players with huge following so they can put their sponsors on them at international events. They gain a lot more exposure this way rather than trying to bring up new players. I think its a very smart business decision. E-Sports is also business first . If there is no money we wont have any competitions and the scene will die.
To have good long term sponsorships its not all about exposure - which is of course a necessity. People also need to like your team and identify with them, if they don't, the players are just walking advertising rostrums comparable to banner ads. Do you think many will buy SK gaming shirts with MC or Nada on them? I think everyone would prefer a oGs one.
I'm a bit confused, isn't SK the same team whose SC2 division just disbanded a couple days ago? The team that only had Jimpo, Joe and one other guy on it? I dunno why they'd suddenly pick up two of the best SC2 players in the world, seeing as their SC2 team is nonexistent, I thought they'd just not show any interest in SC2 alltogether.
On July 15 2011 21:08 careohx wrote: Seriously guys whats so hard to understand about this? SK signed 2 famous players with huge following so they can put their sponsors on them at international events. They gain a lot more exposure this way rather than trying to bring up new players. I think its a very smart business decision. E-Sports is also business first . If there is no money we wont have any competitions and the scene will die.
.... Do you think anyone lots of people will buy SK gaming shirts with MC or Nada on them? I think everyone would prefer a oGs one.
On July 15 2011 20:15 nufcrulz wrote: dont get the point of this, why can't SK go find their own teamless koreans to join their team? Doesn't oGs already have a partnership with TL anyway?
Apparently the TL/oGs partnership isn't that deep, when a confusing threewaylike this appears.
oGs-TL is a pragmatic relationship where they train and live together. oGs-SK is a business relationship where MC and NaDa are basically mercenaries. TL and SK are both offering something different to oGs and neither offers are conflicting. Its not like SK is forcing some players to live with oGs-TL at their team house nor is TL in any kind of (at least known) business relationship with oGs. Just think of it like - TLAF is to Team Liquid what SK is to MC/NaDa.
(no matter what sk says, they're just sponsoring oGs. no one believes for a second MC / NaDa are in the SK team.)
but then you look at the GSTL situation. GOM tell everyone that foreigners can play for any team they like but the only foreigners in the league, huk and jinro, make it clear that as part of the ogs-tl partnership they dont want to play for any other team. this is a business decision because for a lesser team huk and jinro could expect to play most weeks, promoting their team and sponsors, but for ogs they have so far just sat on the bench. liquid has taken a slight business hit for the personal relationships. ogs arent returning the favour.
That move is a bit strange, since oGs already has a partnership with TL and now there is SK coming in the picture probably as the team that can afford to send those two guys all around the world to compete. I hope this trend does not catch on though, cause if it does, we will have MVP/Complexity/Dignitas and IM/EG/Mouz or some strange fusions of clans...
On July 15 2011 21:08 careohx wrote: Seriously guys whats so hard to understand about this? SK signed 2 famous players with huge following so they can put their sponsors on them at international events. They gain a lot more exposure this way rather than trying to bring up new players. I think its a very smart business decision. E-Sports is also business first . If there is no money we wont have any competitions and the scene will die.
The majority of people watching every event apart from maybe MLG and Dreamhack will all be aware of what is going on, thus dragging the SK brand in the mud.
At the end of the day, i think SK would be much better off if they legitimately tried to make a team of their own instead of trying to cheat their way to success.
Considering that these international events have been won mostly by Koreans, I don't think any team they made would win much of anything. Even worse, I don't think I'll even know what players they have in their roster. I bet most people don't even know that hey had an SC2 team. ROFL.
I'm assuming you did not read much of the thread. Your answer seems kind of.. strange..
Nothing of what you just said makes any difference when they get looked at like total a-holes for trying to get exposure the easiest and cheapest way possible. If anything, this is even worse than if they failed when trying to start a new team.
No one in their right frame of mind will ever consider MC and/or NaDa a part of SK-Gaming. It's like saying Tyler is playing for team Stride, just because they are his personal sponsor.
From reading playxp, it sounds like this is not a team sponsorship but rather individual sponsorships to Nada and MC. It doesn't look like oGs is getting paid from this deal, just that SK will provide logistics in tournaments that they choose. oGs is still responsible for the cost in other foriegn tournaments in which any of these two players are invited to participate (in other words, oGs could possibly have to pay their way in tourneys that SK has no interest).
I'm just curious how the player's schedule is going to work out. MC knows he cannot fall off the radar in GSL and will focus on getting back into the shape. Nada hasn't finished with his school and his schedule may not always work out for international tourneys. But mostly, how much of player ownership does SK have with these two players? This could possibly lead to an ugly lawsuit if the deal was half ass written and done.
Again, probably best to wait for more details to come out but it's always fun to speculate on things.
On July 15 2011 21:27 KryptoStorm wrote: SK Gaming are an awesome organisation, and I allways wondered why they didn't have an Sc2 team, guess this is the start of it.
they did have an sc2 team. they sponsored a small time clan and expected them to suddenly dominate the scene, when that didnt happen they ditched them and start wondering how much money it costs to buy a korean.
Sooo, how does TL get a share out of this deal? oGs players are wearing TL logo+sticker on their outfit. And don't think SK will be happy with a TL logo on "their" players outfits.
I mean really...sorry for my last sentence of this post it might be modded but at this moment i won't care. It surprised me that there were some people who did'nt hear about SK Gaming but hey that's it actually SK weren't that famous in the SC scene but in other games SK is a legend and therefore they are my all time favourite team no mather who they pick up.
Meh... Don't like this move either... I mean, it's cool that we're gonna see more Nada and MC in foreign tournaments but that's not gonna make me support SK. I really don't give a shit about them and will continue cheering the players / oGs.
On July 15 2011 21:19 marttorn wrote: I'm a bit confused, isn't SK the same team whose SC2 division just disbanded a couple days ago? The team that only had Jimpo, Joe and one other guy on it? I dunno why they'd suddenly pick up two of the best SC2 players in the world, seeing as their SC2 team is nonexistent, I thought they'd just not show any interest in SC2 alltogether.
SK fired their entire SC2 roster ans started searching for new players.
When i remember right mousesports did the same thing with moon during prime wc3 days, which worked pretty good. I do think not enough people here think about the fact that most of sc2 current community is a mix out of all kinds of games being played previous, and only a minor part really knows about korean clan structures in detail and is knowledgeable in sc1. So a big part of the euro / US audience will not think about ogs when seeing these sk guys play.
ALso, SK is famous for stealing the best players in the world away from their teams, and rightfully so. SK supports their players like none other...but they have to provide results.
On July 15 2011 21:31 stratmatt wrote: ALso, SK is famous for stealing the best players in the world away from their teams, and rightfully so. SK supports their players like none other...but they have to provide results.
SK has a loooong history of not paying salary according to the contract. And keeping pricemoney they're not entitled to. So no, not rightfully so, they are one of the most shady organizations in the eSports world.
On July 15 2011 21:31 w33dOr wrote: ... So a big part of the euro / US audience will not think about ogs when seeing these sk guys play.
You might be wrong. Most of the audience will recognize MC and NaDa as oGs players and the new audience will get this background information too very fast, as they surf through the forums.
On July 15 2011 21:31 stratmatt wrote: ALso, SK is famous for stealing the best players in the world away from their teams, and rightfully so. SK supports their players like none other...but they have to provide results.
That was true once long time ago. Their support now is actually pisspoor.
I kind of like this deal. Causal fans at the big Lan tournaments won't be notice the difference. It give SK the exposure that needed since the sc2 release.
On July 15 2011 21:31 stratmatt wrote: ALso, SK is famous for stealing the best players in the world away from their teams, and rightfully so. SK supports their players like none other...but they have to provide results.
That was true once long time ago. Their support now is actually pisspoor.
Would you by chance be the Yiska i remember from Hydramist? If so, great to see you as a part of SC2 aswell!
At domestic events, in South Korea, MC and NaDa will play as oGs players, but with an SK Gaming patch on their uniforms. At non-Korean events they will wear SK Gaming uniforms.
ahh, so mc will still live with huk and the ogs house :D
Hopefully SK will be big again like they were some years ago.I think SK was the first e-sport team i heard of when i watched e-sport on GIGA (german gaming etc television) back in the days.
Wow really surprising. Although I enjoy seeing Korean stars batteling with foreigners it's still my opinion it's a pathetic move. To the public it looks similair to giving a hot girl money to take you to the prom. I Know SK from the Call of Duty scene and they used to be a respected organization, however I totally disagree with this move.
On July 15 2011 19:39 FarbrorAbavna wrote: feels just weird having them represent SK, the team, outside south korea. I cant think of anything bad for MC or Nada, prolly they will get more money but as someone else said: why cant they just go as OGS?
SK pays tickets. MC and Nada wear the uniforms with the SK sponsors on them. Seems like a good deal to me. The only thing that is slightly bothering me is that SK only has their eyes set on money. If they really cared for the scene they'd form a progaming house and populate it with not yet popular players, in order to further develop it.
On July 15 2011 21:31 stratmatt wrote: ALso, SK is famous for stealing the best players in the world away from their teams, and rightfully so. SK supports their players like none other...but they have to provide results.
SK has a loooong history of not paying salary according to the contract. And keeping pricemoney they're not entitled to. So no, not rightfully so, they are one of the most shady organizations in the eSports world.
I guess I must be really lucky to get all my money from SK and 100% of my prizemoney during the last 4-5 years. There are so many people talking without knowing anything.. :S
Haters gonna hate. None of you have any idea how the deal will work out, yet you feel entitled to comment on it in a negative way. Especially this ineq guy that's just spouting ignorant nonsense for whatever reason.
On July 15 2011 21:31 stratmatt wrote: ALso, SK is famous for stealing the best players in the world away from their teams, and rightfully so. SK supports their players like none other...but they have to provide results.
SK has a loooong history of not paying salary according to the contract. And keeping pricemoney they're not entitled to. So no, not rightfully so, they are one of the most shady organizations in the eSports world.
I guess I must be really lucky to get all my money from SK and 100% of my prizemoney during the last 4-5 years. There are so many people talking without knowing anything.. :S
The only way i see it possible for SK to have honored their contracts and paying salaries is if HeatoN, Potti & Tentpole are all a bunch of liars, who have publicly stated that they're still owed money. It may be possible, but i find it unlikely.
On July 15 2011 21:08 careohx wrote: Seriously guys whats so hard to understand about this? SK signed 2 famous players with huge following so they can put their sponsors on them at international events. They gain a lot more exposure this way rather than trying to bring up new players. I think its a very smart business decision. E-Sports is also business first . If there is no money we wont have any competitions and the scene will die.
The majority of people watching every event apart from maybe MLG and Dreamhack will all be aware of what is going on, thus dragging the SK brand in the mud.
At the end of the day, i think SK would be much better off if they legitimately tried to make a team of their own instead of trying to cheat their way to success.
Considering that these international events have been won mostly by Koreans, I don't think any team they made would win much of anything. Even worse, I don't think I'll even know what players they have in their roster. I bet most people don't even know that hey had an SC2 team. ROFL.
I'm assuming you did not read much of the thread. Your answer seems kind of.. strange..
Nothing of what you just said makes any difference when they get looked at like total a-holes for trying to get exposure the easiest and cheapest way possible. If anything, this is even worse than if they failed when trying to start a new team.
No one in their right frame of mind will ever consider MC and/or NaDa a part of SK-Gaming. It's like saying Tyler is playing for team Stride, just because they are his personal sponsor.
But SK is providing more than just money. They're providing support and welfare. And if SK does provide more support and welfare to Nada and MC than oGs did, then they should be credited for also helping out these players.
The reality is I don't think SK can create a better team than FXO who also has a lot of money. And right now, I don't think FXO is getting the amount of ROI that they would expect.
While it might be a nice move for esports, the foreigner scene, it soehow feels weird.
Like they play for Bayern Munich in the domestic league, have a joinend team of Bayern and Borussia Dortmund play int he domestic Cup, but when it comes to championsleague, they play for Barcelona...
Just feels weird, wrong to me, even tho i think it might be something positive
On July 15 2011 21:42 Kolapz wrote: Haters gonna hate. None of you have any idea how the deal will work out, yet you feel entitled to comment on it in a negative way. Especially this ineq guy that's just spouting ignorant nonsense for whatever reason.
I generally don't like ignorant hate towards anything, but after seeing what you (SK) have done to some of my absolute favorite players from back in the day, and on top of that making a deal with oGs, that to the public looks really stupid, i can't really do anything but criticize what is going on.
If you don't want the hate, explain yourselves, any rational beeing will se that the information provided to the public looks like a cheap way to exposure.
On July 15 2011 21:31 stratmatt wrote: ALso, SK is famous for stealing the best players in the world away from their teams, and rightfully so. SK supports their players like none other...but they have to provide results.
SK has a loooong history of not paying salary according to the contract. And keeping pricemoney they're not entitled to. So no, not rightfully so, they are one of the most shady organizations in the eSports world.
I guess I must be really lucky to get all my money from SK and 100% of my prizemoney during the last 4-5 years. There are so many people talking without knowing anything.. :S
The only way i see it possible for SK to have honored their contracts and paying salaries is if HeatoN, Potti & Tentpole are all a bunch of liars, who have publicly stated that they're still owed money. It may be possible, but i find it unlikely.
I can't judge the HeatoN/Potti thingy as I wasn't in SK back then and don't really know about it, but after seeing the Gux and Delpan story I sometimes doubt that some counter-strike players have ever read their contracts. Just my honest thoughts though. I'm just a person that doesn't like if people talk about something they don't really know about. Don't take it personal! It counts for the oGs/SK deal as well.
On July 15 2011 21:26 jellyjello wrote: From reading playxp, it sounds like this is not a team sponsorship but rather individual sponsorships to Nada and MC. It doesn't look like oGs is getting paid from this deal, just that SK will provide logistics in tournaments that they choose. oGs is still responsible for the cost in other foriegn tournaments in which any of these two players are invited to participate (in other words, oGs could possibly have to pay their way in tourneys that SK has no interest).
I'm just curious how the player's schedule is going to work out. MC knows he cannot fall off the radar in GSL and will focus on getting back into the shape. Nada hasn't finished with his school and his schedule may not always work out for international tourneys. But mostly, how much of player ownership does SK have with these two players? This could possibly lead to an ugly lawsuit if the deal was half ass written and done.
Again, probably best to wait for more details to come out but it's always fun to speculate on things.
If this is true the whole deal only gets more bizzare. oGs must be involved, or they have a very weak contract with their players.
I can't belive that Koreans winning outside of Korea is something totally ignored in Korea, so oGs and their sponsors are loosing some exposure that SK must compensate for. If this is a pure sponsor deal, with a added SK logo on the oGs shirt, I don't see where SK and their sponsors are getting their ROI. In the press release it sounds like MC and Nada will be wearing SK outfits outside of Korea.
I guess it is up to Jinro to represent the oGs jacket outside of Korea now.
On July 15 2011 21:31 stratmatt wrote: ALso, SK is famous for stealing the best players in the world away from their teams, and rightfully so. SK supports their players like none other...but they have to provide results.
SK has a loooong history of not paying salary according to the contract. And keeping pricemoney they're not entitled to. So no, not rightfully so, they are one of the most shady organizations in the eSports world.
I guess I must be really lucky to get all my money from SK and 100% of my prizemoney during the last 4-5 years. There are so many people talking without knowing anything.. :S
The only way i see it possible for SK to have honored their contracts and paying salaries is if HeatoN, Potti & Tentpole are all a bunch of liars, who have publicly stated that they're still owed money. It may be possible, but i find it unlikely.
I can't judge the HeatoN/Potti thingy as I wasn't in SK back then and don't really know about it, but after seeing the Gux and Delpan story I sometimes doubt that some counter-strike players have ever read their contracts. Just my honest thoughts though. I'm just a person that doesn't like if people talk about something they don't really know about. Don't take it personal! It counts for the oGs/SK deal as well.
While it could very well happen that wrong turns were made by the players aswell, i feel like SK has a responsibility as a big organization to explain themselves in these kind of situations. If not, then they better be ready to take the heat coming their way. I'm no taking it personally at all, and i understand that you would want to side with SK if you really have gotten your salaries/prize money or whatever it may be according to the contract.
On July 15 2011 21:31 stratmatt wrote: ALso, SK is famous for stealing the best players in the world away from their teams, and rightfully so. SK supports their players like none other...but they have to provide results.
SK has a loooong history of not paying salary according to the contract. And keeping pricemoney they're not entitled to. So no, not rightfully so, they are one of the most shady organizations in the eSports world.
I guess I must be really lucky to get all my money from SK and 100% of my prizemoney during the last 4-5 years. There are so many people talking without knowing anything.. :S
The only way i see it possible for SK to have honored their contracts and paying salaries is if HeatoN, Potti & Tentpole are all a bunch of liars, who have publicly stated that they're still owed money. It may be possible, but i find it unlikely.
I can't judge the HeatoN/Potti thingy as I wasn't in SK back then and don't really know about it, but after seeing the Gux and Delpan story I sometimes doubt that some counter-strike players have ever read their contracts. Just my honest thoughts though. I'm just a person that doesn't like if people talk about something they don't really know about. Don't take it personal! It counts for the oGs/SK deal as well.
While it could very well happen that wrong turns were made by the players aswell, i feel like SK has a responsibility as a big organization to explain themselves in these kind of situations. If not, then they better be ready to take the heat coming their way. I'm no taking it personally at all, and i understand that you would want to side with SK if you really have gotten your salaries/prize money or whatever it may be according to the contract.
I agree to the explanation thing. That could have been better indeed, but that's something I am not responsible for. As far as I have experienced SK has been the best organisation for me. It's hard to get accepted in eSports as a racing game player, but SK has helped and fully supports it. And I think MC and NaDa are the last players you wanna ever fool. Therefore I expect that they will get all the support they need and I hope that I can have the chance to meet them at Gamescom as my teammates.
Kind of wondering if this might end up with oGs being renamed SK in the long run, SK is to the CS community what TL is to the SC2 community and its a big time company.
Well, I do not like it either, and let's hope this will fail or as TT1 said (maybe as a joke) it may become near impossible for foreigners to make it at all and they might as well host MLG and Dreamhack directly in Korea.
I think SK should have sponsored an already existing team (if Korea if they so desired) or anywhere else and renamed them to SK, as Complexity did (twice).
As a big fan of everything oGs, I don't really get it? MC and Nada could both already participate in as many tournaments outside of korea as they cared to join, but now when they win said tournaments some random ass other team gets the credit for their win even though oGs is providing these players with training facilities, practice partners, and coaching? Bullshit
On July 15 2011 22:04 Krogan wrote: Kind of wondering if this might end up with oGs being renamed SK in the long run, SK is to the CS community what TL is to the SC2 community and its a big time company.
if you talk about teams, this may be true. But if you talk about websites the CS-equivalent to TL would be hltv.org.
On July 15 2011 21:31 stratmatt wrote: ALso, SK is famous for stealing the best players in the world away from their teams, and rightfully so. SK supports their players like none other...but they have to provide results.
SK has a loooong history of not paying salary according to the contract. And keeping pricemoney they're not entitled to. So no, not rightfully so, they are one of the most shady organizations in the eSports world.
I guess I must be really lucky to get all my money from SK and 100% of my prizemoney during the last 4-5 years. There are so many people talking without knowing anything.. :S
The only way i see it possible for SK to have honored their contracts and paying salaries is if HeatoN, Potti & Tentpole are all a bunch of liars, who have publicly stated that they're still owed money. It may be possible, but i find it unlikely.
I can't judge the HeatoN/Potti thingy as I wasn't in SK back then and don't really know about it, but after seeing the Gux and Delpan story I sometimes doubt that some counter-strike players have ever read their contracts. Just my honest thoughts though. I'm just a person that doesn't like if people talk about something they don't really know about. Don't take it personal! It counts for the oGs/SK deal as well.
While it could very well happen that wrong turns were made by the players aswell, i feel like SK has a responsibility as a big organization to explain themselves in these kind of situations. If not, then they better be ready to take the heat coming their way. I'm no taking it personally at all, and i understand that you would want to side with SK if you really have gotten your salaries/prize money or whatever it may be according to the contract.
I agree to the explanation thing. That could have been better indeed, but that's something I am not responsible for. As far as I have experienced SK has been the best organisation for me. It's hard to get accepted in eSports as a racing game player, but SK has helped and fully supports it. And I think MC and NaDa are the last players you wanna ever fool. Therefore I expect that they will get all the support they need and I hope that I can have the chance to meet them at Gamescom as my teammates.
I do not at all think that they will try to fool MC and NaDa, that would require some real BALLS, to say the least. I'm just very critical about this whole deal, as the information provided says nothing but cutting corners. It could be good for buisness, im not sure. But it definately wont sit well with the community.
edit; I would honestly much rather see them snatching players from other organizations, than doing this kind of thing. If they take players from others, i atleast feel that they have a right to call them their players. I would love for someone from SK-Gaming to come here, or anywhere and explain why this makes them a part of the SK-Gaming roster, and not just a personal financial sponsorship, similar to what TLO, Tyler & KiWiKaKi got from the MLG sponsors.
I for one respect Racing gamers, as i've played racing games on consoles all my life, and i appreciate the difficulty. Kudos to you sir for beeing as good as you are.
SK is by far the most famous clan in europe. They have so many tournament wins and its can't be bad when SK joins SC2 with such a deal. I hope NaDa will join many foreign tournaments in the future.
On July 15 2011 21:31 stratmatt wrote: ALso, SK is famous for stealing the best players in the world away from their teams, and rightfully so. SK supports their players like none other...but they have to provide results.
SK has a loooong history of not paying salary according to the contract. And keeping pricemoney they're not entitled to. So no, not rightfully so, they are one of the most shady organizations in the eSports world.
I guess I must be really lucky to get all my money from SK and 100% of my prizemoney during the last 4-5 years. There are so many people talking without knowing anything.. :S
The only way i see it possible for SK to have honored their contracts and paying salaries is if HeatoN, Potti & Tentpole are all a bunch of liars, who have publicly stated that they're still owed money. It may be possible, but i find it unlikely.
I can't judge the HeatoN/Potti thingy as I wasn't in SK back then and don't really know about it, but after seeing the Gux and Delpan story I sometimes doubt that some counter-strike players have ever read their contracts. Just my honest thoughts though. I'm just a person that doesn't like if people talk about something they don't really know about. Don't take it personal! It counts for the oGs/SK deal as well.
While it could very well happen that wrong turns were made by the players aswell, i feel like SK has a responsibility as a big organization to explain themselves in these kind of situations. If not, then they better be ready to take the heat coming their way. I'm no taking it personally at all, and i understand that you would want to side with SK if you really have gotten your salaries/prize money or whatever it may be according to the contract.
You seem like a person whos bringing up undigested stuff everytime you see ur ex girlfriends? IMHO if u want an explanation from them, just ask them, this here is not the right place to expect something like this..
I mean SK surely did not hire Nada and MC to NOT fullful their contract and get bad RP. So we could just skip those stale news, and discuss about the Nada MC thing.
Bit of a strange construction, will be interesting to see how it works out. Nada and mc are both insane ballers, but as a respected team SK once was I would have thought they would make their own team with their own talents. Now its just hiring for short term for publicity, because I don't see this as a long term solution for their sc2 lineup.
On July 15 2011 22:06 Jonas wrote: As a big fan of everything oGs, I don't really get it? MC and Nada could both already participate in as many tournaments outside of korea as they cared to join, but now when they win said tournaments some random ass other team gets the credit for their win even though oGs is providing these players with training facilities, practice partners, and coaching? Bullshit
There is such a thing as costs of flights to and from foreign tournaments, accomodations at the events themselves, translators, guides and a thousand other possible expenses or problems that needs to be addressed.
So, in my view, if the SK-gaming deal makes for that NaDa and MC can attend more foreign tournaments and have less trouble doing so, it is a good and much needed thing.
On July 15 2011 21:31 stratmatt wrote: ALso, SK is famous for stealing the best players in the world away from their teams, and rightfully so. SK supports their players like none other...but they have to provide results.
SK has a loooong history of not paying salary according to the contract. And keeping pricemoney they're not entitled to. So no, not rightfully so, they are one of the most shady organizations in the eSports world.
I guess I must be really lucky to get all my money from SK and 100% of my prizemoney during the last 4-5 years. There are so many people talking without knowing anything.. :S
The only way i see it possible for SK to have honored their contracts and paying salaries is if HeatoN, Potti & Tentpole are all a bunch of liars, who have publicly stated that they're still owed money. It may be possible, but i find it unlikely.
I can't judge the HeatoN/Potti thingy as I wasn't in SK back then and don't really know about it, but after seeing the Gux and Delpan story I sometimes doubt that some counter-strike players have ever read their contracts. Just my honest thoughts though. I'm just a person that doesn't like if people talk about something they don't really know about. Don't take it personal! It counts for the oGs/SK deal as well.
While it could very well happen that wrong turns were made by the players aswell, i feel like SK has a responsibility as a big organization to explain themselves in these kind of situations. If not, then they better be ready to take the heat coming their way. I'm no taking it personally at all, and i understand that you would want to side with SK if you really have gotten your salaries/prize money or whatever it may be according to the contract.
You seem like a person whos bringing up undigested stuff everytime you see ur ex girlfriends? IMHO if u want an explanation from them, just ask them, this here is not the right place to expect something like this..
I mean SK surely did not hire Nada and MC to NOT fullful their contract and get bad RP. So we could just skip those stale news, and discuss about the Nada MC thing.
I honestly don't usually hate on anything the way i'm doing right now, but SK-Gaming has had so many horror stories, and so few explanations as to why the things that happened, really did happen. That's why i'm coming off as very arrogant.
And some of the things i've been talking about regarding not honoring contracts date all the way back to 2003-2004. It's not like these questions have not been asked before. They were just not answered. Atleast not publicly.
And i have been discussing the MC/NaDa thing, if you read my comments you will see that. I just don't like the whole deal from SK's side. For obvious reasons.
On July 15 2011 21:31 stratmatt wrote: ALso, SK is famous for stealing the best players in the world away from their teams, and rightfully so. SK supports their players like none other...but they have to provide results.
SK has a loooong history of not paying salary according to the contract. And keeping pricemoney they're not entitled to. So no, not rightfully so, they are one of the most shady organizations in the eSports world.
I guess I must be really lucky to get all my money from SK and 100% of my prizemoney during the last 4-5 years. There are so many people talking without knowing anything.. :S
The only way i see it possible for SK to have honored their contracts and paying salaries is if HeatoN, Potti & Tentpole are all a bunch of liars, who have publicly stated that they're still owed money. It may be possible, but i find it unlikely.
As much as I love those players, it is well known that there was plenty of friction and gray areas between them and SK over the years that have lead to a lot of rumors spreading hurtful for both sides.
This looks lika a rather desperate move by SK. Even though MC is like a guarantee for top 3 finishes those triumphs will be still attributed to Ogs as SK has nothing to do with the day to day stuff.
On July 15 2011 21:31 stratmatt wrote: ALso, SK is famous for stealing the best players in the world away from their teams, and rightfully so. SK supports their players like none other...but they have to provide results.
SK has a loooong history of not paying salary according to the contract. And keeping pricemoney they're not entitled to. So no, not rightfully so, they are one of the most shady organizations in the eSports world.
I guess I must be really lucky to get all my money from SK and 100% of my prizemoney during the last 4-5 years. There are so many people talking without knowing anything.. :S
The only way i see it possible for SK to have honored their contracts and paying salaries is if HeatoN, Potti & Tentpole are all a bunch of liars, who have publicly stated that they're still owed money. It may be possible, but i find it unlikely.
As much as I love those players, it is well known that there was plenty of friction and gray areas between them and SK over the years that have lead to a lot of rumors spreading hurtful for both sides.
Why was there friction though? Obviously friction can come from alot of different things, but i don't see why the players in question would state themselves that they were owed money if they really were not. Unless SK had the worst possible luck and found 3 of the dumbest bigtime liars. Which i would not think of someone like HeatoN, who to this day still is working in eSports and just a few months ago talked to Fragbite.se about the salary and prizemoney issues in an interview.
If it was all lies and rumors i feel like SK should have proven so by now. Although i must say that they seem to have shaped up greatly on that part, because of the crap they have gotten.
That does not take away from the fact that i find this deal with oGs really cheap and dirty.
"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken" - Tyler Durden
I really dont see what SK gaming has to gain from this. They are borrowing players that has loyalties elsewhere. Its a publicity stunt that does not make a team, doesnt give backbone, has no investment towards the future. I mean if MC and Nada does well i think its a lot easier for them to get sponsors and such but its just a fad. Once they decide to leave, SK gaming will die again. And i really dont see SK gaming building up a mercenary team of pro koreans that can participate in team leagues or have a base outside of korea.
Also, Sk has always seemed like a shady and greedy team to me. Lets see what happens with the koreans.
Well this move is interesting, didn't think SK would be doing this kind of stuff specially with their SC2 situation prior to this move. Anyway congrats to all parties.
That does not take away from the fact that i find this deal with oGs really cheap and dirty.
Please, explain why you find it cheap and dirty.
1. oGs obviously feel that their presence should be in Korea and not abroad. 2. NaDa and MC have played (or wanted to play) in foreigner tournaments. 3. The costs of travel, lodgings, food, translators is a heavy price to pay for korean teams
That a foreigner team is (seemingly, at least) willing to should the financal burden is a positive thing, at least until korean teams find it as important to have a presence the international scene and not just GSL.
Is it cheap? It is probably going to cost SK a great deal. What do they get in return? Exposure and what little prize money the contract specifies when the players and oGs has gotten their share (perhaps they only get their expenses covered if the players win and nothing if the players lose, so that they never get any financial gains)
Is it dirty? I wouldn't now, dirty as in a "quick and dirty"-solution, maybe, as they wont have their own players.
On July 15 2011 21:31 stratmatt wrote: ALso, SK is famous for stealing the best players in the world away from their teams, and rightfully so. SK supports their players like none other...but they have to provide results.
SK has a loooong history of not paying salary according to the contract. And keeping pricemoney they're not entitled to. So no, not rightfully so, they are one of the most shady organizations in the eSports world.
I guess I must be really lucky to get all my money from SK and 100% of my prizemoney during the last 4-5 years. There are so many people talking without knowing anything.. :S
The only way i see it possible for SK to have honored their contracts and paying salaries is if HeatoN, Potti & Tentpole are all a bunch of liars, who have publicly stated that they're still owed money. It may be possible, but i find it unlikely.
As much as I love those players, it is well known that there was plenty of friction and gray areas between them and SK over the years that have lead to a lot of rumors spreading hurtful for both sides.
Why was there friction though? Obviously friction can come from alot of different things, but i don't see why the players in question would state themselves that they were owed money if they really were not. Unless SK had the worst possible luck and found 3 of the dumbest bigtime liars. Which i would not think of someone like HeatoN, who to this day still is working in eSports and just a few months ago talked to Fragbite.se about the salary and prizemoney issues in an interview.
If it was all lies and rumors i feel like SK should have proven so by now. Although i must say that they seem to have shaped up greatly on that part, because of the crap they have gotten.
That does not take away from the fact that i find this deal with oGs really cheap and dirty.
Thanks for your respect in the other post first of all. The question that always comes in my mind when reading this... why didn't they take legal proceedings. If you are owed money it's a normal thing to do imo. Both sides even signed a contract where should be stated everything about the money. As I have said I have no idea about these cases, but thats always a weird question that comes into my head. SK did the same thing vs. a sponsor this year and as far as I know some other players that are owed money are currently infront of court as well. eSports has turned into serious business.
That does not take away from the fact that i find this deal with oGs really cheap and dirty.
Please, explain why you find it cheap and dirty.
1. oGs obviously feel that their presence should be in Korea and not abroad. 2. NaDa and MC have played (or wanted to play) in foreigner tournaments. 3. The costs of travel, lodgings, food, translators is a heavy price to pay for korean teams
That a foreigner team is (seemingly, at least) willing to should the financal burden is a positive thing, at least until korean teams find it as important to have a presence the international scene and not just GSL.
Is it cheap? It is probably going to cost SK a great deal. What do they get in return? Exposure and what little prize money the contract specifies when the players and oGs has gotten their share (perhaps they only get their expenses covered if the players win and nothing if the players lose, so that they never get any financial gains)
Is it dirty? I wouldn't now, dirty as in a "quick and dirty"-solution, maybe, as they wont have their own players.
If you had read my earlier comments you would understand what i mean.
What i've been saying that SK are trying to cut corners by claiming MC & NaDa as a part of their professional team, which i think most of us would agree that they are not.
They act as a personal sponsors, much like Stride does for Liquid`Tyler.
On July 15 2011 22:48 LastDance wrote: lol SK added Nada and MC to their team roster: http://www.sk-gaming.com/players/ in the profiles they made it says "former teams oGs"
Seriously SK, nobody considers these players yours. you've just become their airfare bitch
as I wrote earlier, SK also mentions SK as former team of all their players... it seems to show current and former teams, which is bad design but not evil I guess.
I can't remember WC3 players ever having a problem with salaries or prize money when they were with SK. SK was one of the most reputable teams during their wc3 era. Also they had good relations and experiences with koreans cuz of their teammanager Reis.
I must say SK|MC and especially SK|Nada looks pretty sick. Who would've thought that a european team was ever gonna pick up Nada a few years back?
Sk|Nada at every foreign tournament seems like a good deal for SK to me. They are not investing too much I think. Think of Day9 announcing "SK NADA" every time while casting MLG or Dreamhack. Can't get more exposure than that.
Look at how much attention this got already. Even if people dont think the players "belong" to SK they are associated with SK and SK gets the attention, the clicks, the exposure without even having played a single game.
On July 15 2011 21:31 stratmatt wrote: ALso, SK is famous for stealing the best players in the world away from their teams, and rightfully so. SK supports their players like none other...but they have to provide results.
That was true once long time ago. Their support now is actually pisspoor.
Would you by chance be the Yiska i remember from Hydramist? If so, great to see you as a part of SC2 aswell!
On July 15 2011 22:54 AntiGrav1ty wrote: I can't remember WC3 players ever having a problem with salaries or prize money when they were with SK. SK was one of the most reputable teams during their wc3 era. Also they had good relations and experiences with koreans cuz of their teammanager Reis.
I must say SK|MC and especially SK|Nada looks pretty sick. Who would've thought that a european team was ever gonna pick up Nada a few years back?
Sk|Nada at every foreign tournament seems like a good deal for SK to me. They are not investing too much I think. Think of Day9 announcing "SK NADA" every time while casting MLG or Dreamhack. Can't get more exposure than that.
there was an incident where SK sent WC to an international tournament and then kept the prize money for the air fare. Which might be not that bad as such but the issue there was that the players were not informed that would happen because it would have been bad for their morale which is pretty disrespectful and untrusting. I am too lazy right now to search for the source but if you really insist and don't find it yourself I could search it.
SK is a really big and respected team, so it's good for them to have players like MC and NaDa to represent them on foreign events, and good for SC2 to have such a team in the global competition.
But to me, it looks more like some try to make their team shine again on the RTS scene. MC and NaDa will still be oGs members before SK members, and for people who follows GSL, like most of TL does, their real team will be oGs. I mean, they live and practice there...
I think there's something behind this, and imagine if oGs disbands, SK will instantly be one of the best teams worldwide if they keep MC/NaDa or other oGs members... But at the time it's just one powerful airplane/logistic support.
Also i would like to know what's up with Liquid partnership in this, some official announcement would be nice.
On July 15 2011 21:31 stratmatt wrote: ALso, SK is famous for stealing the best players in the world away from their teams, and rightfully so. SK supports their players like none other...but they have to provide results.
SK has a loooong history of not paying salary according to the contract. And keeping pricemoney they're not entitled to. So no, not rightfully so, they are one of the most shady organizations in the eSports world.
I guess I must be really lucky to get all my money from SK and 100% of my prizemoney during the last 4-5 years. There are so many people talking without knowing anything.. :S
The only way i see it possible for SK to have honored their contracts and paying salaries is if HeatoN, Potti & Tentpole are all a bunch of liars, who have publicly stated that they're still owed money. It may be possible, but i find it unlikely.
As much as I love those players, it is well known that there was plenty of friction and gray areas between them and SK over the years that have lead to a lot of rumors spreading hurtful for both sides.
Why was there friction though? Obviously friction can come from alot of different things, but i don't see why the players in question would state themselves that they were owed money if they really were not. Unless SK had the worst possible luck and found 3 of the dumbest bigtime liars. Which i would not think of someone like HeatoN, who to this day still is working in eSports and just a few months ago talked to Fragbite.se about the salary and prizemoney issues in an interview.
If it was all lies and rumors i feel like SK should have proven so by now. Although i must say that they seem to have shaped up greatly on that part, because of the crap they have gotten.
That does not take away from the fact that i find this deal with oGs really cheap and dirty.
Thanks for your respect in the other post first of all. The question that always comes in my mind when reading this... why didn't they take legal proceedings. If you are owed money it's a normal thing to do imo. Both sides even signed a contract where should be stated everything about the money. As I have said I have no idea about these cases, but thats always a weird question that comes into my head. SK did the same thing vs. a sponsor this year and as far as I know some other players that are owed money are currently infront of court as well. eSports has turned into serious business.
I've actually had the same thoughts myself, and i don't know why they have not. It might not be worth it. No clue to be honest.
Even if these players were infact lying, or what the heck ever that was going on, SK should explain themselves. If for nothing else, then for their own good. Nothing good can come from such negativity as that which has rained down on SK over the years.
And i for one love the fact that a shit-ton of money is beeing fed into eSports, even if i myself dont make a dime from it, atleast production and team professionalism will rise alongside the money.
On July 15 2011 18:55 Animostas wrote: Really kind of weird in my opinion, I don't really see why MC and Nada can't just play as oGs members.
I don't know if SK Gaming is really renowned as a Starcraft II team so it just feels kind of off to have two of the best players in the world representing them all of a sudden.
Sponsors obviously. SK has not had any good players at all in starcraft 2 something they obviously want to change. Think that answers your questions.
On July 15 2011 22:27 Beyonder wrote: Fully agree with ineq :o SK is a shady organization. The stories are there for a reason, be it tricky contracts, be it full truth..
Yeh, their most successful cs team ever with HeatoN, Potti etc went out and said that they were mistreated by the SK organisation. Kept the prize money of tournaments completely away from the players in the end.
On July 15 2011 22:48 LastDance wrote: lol SK added Nada and MC to their team roster: http://www.sk-gaming.com/players/ in the profiles they made it says "former teams oGs"
Seriously SK, nobody considers these players yours. you've just become their airfare bitch
Everyone that played Quake3 many years ago knows that back then SK had one of the toughest and most successful teams with SteLam, Slinger, Zyz and more. I guess since then their success has stagnated, but still its a very good team with much reputation. Also as a german i'm a little bit proud to have my favourite player (MC) in a german team ;-)
Eh, i don't like this at all. If you're on a team, you are on that team. Maybe if OGS was like the Korean national team and SK is just a private club in some other country i'd feel better about it. But this is just too weird, regardless of all the shady accusations surrounding SK.
And to further add on MC has stated that whenever you are traveling to a foreign event and participating you are losing practice time. And he is even taking a break right now from foreign tournaments in order to practice more and get his skill level up as he has mentioned he can feel that his late game macro has started to slip. I hope that SK doesn't end up expecting too much from these two.
This is not exciting news for me. Funny thing is, i didn't even like SK in CS either. I rooted for 3D all the time and was a huge Method fanboy.
So, it seems SK gave up on having an SC2 division team. They just decided to do personal sponsorships for MC and Nada. It's like how Stride sponsors Tyler, Sony Ericsson for TLO, and Dr. Pepper for Kiwikaki.
I don't like this at all. Everything is just so fucking wierd and SK must be so desperate when they buy themself into the top of SC2 with players that ain't even theirs in the first place.
Something must be wrong in the SK HQ because they fail with building a BW team, they fail the first year with a sc2 team and know when they do this stupid move I guess they will never have a real team for SC2 ever again.
does it only mean MC will play under sth like sk.mc outside of korea and thats all? whats big about it, I dont get the whole point. please expalin, somebody
On July 15 2011 18:53 Mawi wrote: I think this should be in the SC2 section and not General forum but holy shi!!! seriously how the hell.... this came so sudden i never heard of any SK related in the past. Best of luck to them I guess they want to try Foreign tournaments more than korean
You are misunderstanding it. ogs is still their sponsor but outside of korea, where ogs has no need to influence and advertise SK gaming will advertise. It's a partnership.
On July 15 2011 23:52 anzient wrote: Weird move from SK. Never understood why SK didn't build a powerhouse like mousesports etc. for SC2. SK don't usually aim for second place.
not weird, very solid move actually.
they have good shots of winning many foreign tournaments now, as MC and NaDa do represent them in every Sc2 tournament outside of Korea.
it's not like many foreign teams actually are present in the korean market
On July 15 2011 22:48 LastDance wrote: lol SK added Nada and MC to their team roster: http://www.sk-gaming.com/players/ in the profiles they made it says "former teams oGs"
Seriously SK, nobody considers these players yours. you've just become their airfare bitch
Lol, basically this.
MC and NaDa are like "We wanna make more money by taking foreigner's cash! Wanna pay our airfare so we give you a shoutout when we win?"
i dont like it.. i mean..these guys are ogs players, we all know that.. and now theyll make em wear a SK sign just for some cash? when they have never truly played for SK and are still in ogs.. sounds weird..
On July 15 2011 22:48 LastDance wrote: lol SK added Nada and MC to their team roster: http://www.sk-gaming.com/players/ in the profiles they made it says "former teams oGs"
Seriously SK, nobody considers these players yours. you've just become their airfare bitch
Lol, basically this.
MC and NaDa are like "We wanna make more money by taking foreigner's cash! Wanna pay our airfare so we give you a shoutout when we win?"
SK: "ok, here take our money."
Well, from the experiences of their CS players over the years, I wouldn't be so sure of receiving that money.
Honestly, I think if oGs were more aware of SK's international reputation, they would never have agreed to this.
Strange. SK needs an actual SC2 team in order for me to care about them as a force in the SC2 scene. Adding these two guys despite them being two of my favourite players does not feel like SK is a legit SC2 team. They're like hired mercenaries.
If this is a deal to benefit Nada and MC, so they can attend more tournaments at SK's cost, then that's great, and i thank SK for this.
So weird :S
Although upon further pondering i expect more of this. It is unreasonable i think for oGs or any Korean team to go to the foreign events regularly. It seems difficult financially and from a management perspective. This however makes it easier, and it wouldn't surprise me to see the scene grow more and have foreign and korean teams partnering up more in this manner so that the Koreans can travel abroad aided by able foreign teams, and hopefully on the other side we'll see more foriengers training with Korean teams to hopefully raise the level of play.
These two will always be oGs players to me though.
Seems like a pretty desperate move by SK, it's kind of sad that there aren't more sponsors fostering the growth of foreign talent. If this is the trend of the future, there won't be much hope for foreigners ever catching up to Koreans in SC2.
Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
On July 15 2011 23:58 Carras wrote: i dont like it.. i mean..these guys are ogs players, we all know that.. and now theyll make em wear a SK sign just for some cash? when they have never truly played for SK and are still in ogs.. sounds weird..
I agree its a bit weird. But you have to understand it from the view of the sponsors. The sponsors of oGs are mainly only Korean brands. They have no interest to send players to foreign events.
The future of global esports will be global teams. This SK deal is just the first step. More koreans will move to foreign teams and hopefully some korean teams will turn global.
I don't understand at all what SK gains from this, other than some e-penis. Maybe they will take a big chunk out of prize money but that wont make up for airfare + costs of having them play for their organisation lol.
By reading the title I thought SK stood for South Korea... anyway grats for the partnership I guess. I'm aware that it's all about money though so no big deal
On July 16 2011 00:17 DwD wrote: I don't understand at all what SK gains from this, other than some e-penis. Maybe they will take a big chunk out of prize money but that wont make up for airfare + costs of having them play for their organisation lol.
Being able to say they have 2 of the best players in the world on their team will turns some heads. A lot of people new to competitive gaming have never heard of SK. Just having those 2 faces tied to your franchise will bring in more traffic and exposure to their cause.
On July 15 2011 22:48 LastDance wrote: lol SK added Nada and MC to their team roster: http://www.sk-gaming.com/players/ in the profiles they made it says "former teams oGs"
Seriously SK, nobody considers these players yours. you've just become their airfare bitch
Lol, basically this.
MC and NaDa are like "We wanna make more money by taking foreigner's cash! Wanna pay our airfare so we give you a shoutout when we win?"
SK: "ok, here take our money."
Where does it say former team oGs? Or did they just delete it? Wouldnt surprise me at all though, lol
On July 15 2011 22:48 LastDance wrote: lol SK added Nada and MC to their team roster: http://www.sk-gaming.com/players/ in the profiles they made it says "former teams oGs"
Seriously SK, nobody considers these players yours. you've just become their airfare bitch
Lol, basically this.
MC and NaDa are like "We wanna make more money by taking foreigner's cash! Wanna pay our airfare so we give you a shoutout when we win?"
SK: "ok, here take our money."
Where does it say former team oGs? Or did they just delete it? Wouldnt surprise me at all though, lol
If you click the link to the players name, on the right
for example oGsMC (I will never ever ever ever call him SK)
FORMER TEAMS SK Gaming Old Generations MBCGame HERO
On July 15 2011 22:48 LastDance wrote: lol SK added Nada and MC to their team roster: http://www.sk-gaming.com/players/ in the profiles they made it says "former teams oGs"
Seriously SK, nobody considers these players yours. you've just become their airfare bitch
Lol, basically this.
MC and NaDa are like "We wanna make more money by taking foreigner's cash! Wanna pay our airfare so we give you a shoutout when we win?"
SK: "ok, here take our money."
Where does it say former team oGs? Or did they just delete it? Wouldnt surprise me at all though, lol
I'm curious about one more thing: What will happen if MC and/or NaDa make it to the GSL October final?
Will they play for oGs the whole tournament and then in the final (which will be played in the US) switch to SK or just stick with oGs the whole tournament?
To be more clear: Is this deal supposed to be in every single event outside Korea or just Non-Korean-based tournaments?
On July 15 2011 22:48 LastDance wrote: lol SK added Nada and MC to their team roster: http://www.sk-gaming.com/players/ in the profiles they made it says "former teams oGs"
Seriously SK, nobody considers these players yours. you've just become their airfare bitch
Lol, basically this.
MC and NaDa are like "We wanna make more money by taking foreigner's cash! Wanna pay our airfare so we give you a shoutout when we win?"
SK: "ok, here take our money."
Where does it say former team oGs? Or did they just delete it? Wouldnt surprise me at all though, lol
If you click the link to the players name, on the right
for example oGsMC (I will never ever ever ever call him SK)
FORMER TEAMS SK Gaming Old Generations MBCGame HERO
It says SK too so obviously it's just wrong, who careS?
On July 15 2011 22:48 LastDance wrote: lol SK added Nada and MC to their team roster: http://www.sk-gaming.com/players/ in the profiles they made it says "former teams oGs"
Seriously SK, nobody considers these players yours. you've just become their airfare bitch
Lol, basically this.
MC and NaDa are like "We wanna make more money by taking foreigner's cash! Wanna pay our airfare so we give you a shoutout when we win?"
SK: "ok, here take our money."
Where does it say former team oGs? Or did they just delete it? Wouldnt surprise me at all though, lol
if you click on the player profiles it says "former team" on the top right but it also has the current team in that list including SK/OGS
On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote: Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players.
On July 15 2011 22:48 LastDance wrote: lol SK added Nada and MC to their team roster: http://www.sk-gaming.com/players/ in the profiles they made it says "former teams oGs"
Seriously SK, nobody considers these players yours. you've just become their airfare bitch
Lol, basically this.
MC and NaDa are like "We wanna make more money by taking foreigner's cash! Wanna pay our airfare so we give you a shoutout when we win?"
SK: "ok, here take our money."
Where does it say former team oGs? Or did they just delete it? Wouldnt surprise me at all though, lol
If you click the link to the players name, on the right
for example oGsMC (I will never ever ever ever call him SK)
FORMER TEAMS SK Gaming Old Generations MBCGame HERO
It says SK too so obviously it's just wrong, who careS?
indeed -_- so much hate here... doesn't surprise me though, many people tend to like their rival fnatic better with which SK has had much shittalk and confrontations lately.
i always felt like they treated their WC3 players well. be it Miou, Insomnia, Madfrog or any of the koreans, i don't remember them talking shit about SK. only exception here was XlorD, but that didn't surprise me.
Wow. I think OGS is being really smart in partnering with foreign teams. It's like free advertising. TeamLiquid for N.America, and now SK for Europe? Smart doods.
On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote: Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players.
Could you please explain to me why this is beneficial for SK? I'm not trying to be hostile or anything. But i'm just seeing this having a negative impact on SK as a brand. They may attract new and uneducated fans, but as has been said before, they'll learn that MC and NaDa actually are not a product of SK, but of oGs, and thus noone will really care that they're representing SK, when oGs is the real reason behind their success. And sponsors will know this aswell, no doubt.
The organization will in my opinion look like a bunch of slackers looking for a quick buck, even though that's not the case.
On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote: Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players.
Dood, what are you talking about.
Orga's buying players out of their contracts is indeed common both in sports and in e-sports (mostly CS).
This has nothing to do with it. Take your basketball player - he's not being transferred. He's just receiving some money to make a shoutout for another team at the end of a game. In some competitions
On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote: Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players.
Could you please explain to me why this is beneficial for SK? I'm not trying to be hostile or anything. But i'm just seeing this having a negative impact on SK as a brand. They may attract new and uneducated fans, but as has been said before, they'll learn that MC and NaDa actually are not a product of SK, but of oGs, and thus noone will really care that they're representing SK, when oGs is the real reason behind their success. And sponsors will know this aswell, no doubt.
The organization will in my opinion look like a bunch of slackers looking for a quick buck, even though that's not the case.
How could having 2 of the best players in the world wearing your team's jersey and repping your team's name at every foreigner tournament have a negative impact on your team? Can you explain that? To someone like me, seeing SK in front of a players name automatically signals they are somebody to watch and that they are probably amazing players. Mc and Nada are HARDLY a 'product' of OGS, they are their own players and stand just fine on their own terms. Not taking anything away from what OGS has done, but is it OGS who made MC/NADA, or MC/NADA that made OGS?
On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote: Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players.
Could you please explain to me why this is beneficial for SK? I'm not trying to be hostile or anything. But i'm just seeing this having a negative impact on SK as a brand. They may attract new and uneducated fans, but as has been said before, they'll learn that MC and NaDa actually are not a product of SK, but of oGs, and thus noone will really care that they're representing SK, when oGs is the real reason behind their success. And sponsors will know this aswell, no doubt.
The organization will in my opinion look like a bunch of slackers looking for a quick buck, even though that's not the case.
Could you please explain to me why having players on a team is beneficial for any team?
Teams make money off exposure and advertising. If you read the comments, half the community here has no idea who SK is as an organization. Now they will have top contenders in every foreigner tournament wearing their (and their sponsors) logo. This is basically what every team dreams of. They also developed links to Korea, which no other team has done (aside from TL, because they had ties to Spunky). Do you guys know how many players want the chance to come from Korea to play in foreigner tournaments? Now they can have them on contract. If they sign a few more Koreans by being able to just buy their plane tickets, you will see SK have 3 in the top 5 of every tournament without having to do a single thing.
I wouldn't be surprised if they had this planned from this start. Why bother growing a team when this is a risk-free venture for all the rewards of having your own team?!?!? There is a reason the Yankees are the Yankees.
On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote: Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players.
Dood, what are you talking about.
Orga's buying players out of their contracts is indeed common both in sports and in e-sports (mostly CS).
This has nothing to do with it. Take your basketball player - he's not being transferred. He's just receiving some money to make a shoutout for another team at the end of a game. In some competitions
Exactly - your basketball example is moot because in this case, there is no transfer.
On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote: Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players.
Could you please explain to me why this is beneficial for SK? I'm not trying to be hostile or anything. But i'm just seeing this having a negative impact on SK as a brand. They may attract new and uneducated fans, but as has been said before, they'll learn that MC and NaDa actually are not a product of SK, but of oGs, and thus noone will really care that they're representing SK, when oGs is the real reason behind their success. And sponsors will know this aswell, no doubt.
The organization will in my opinion look like a bunch of slackers looking for a quick buck, even though that's not the case.
Could you please explain to me why having players on a team is beneficial for any team?
Teams make money off exposure and advertising. If you read the comments, half the community here has no idea who SK is as an organization. Now they will have top contenders in every foreigner tournament wearing their (and their sponsors) logo. This is basically what every team dreams of. They also developed links to Korea, which no other team has done (aside from TL, because they had ties to Spunky). Do you guys know how many players want the chance to come from Korea to play in foreigner tournaments? Now they can have them on contract. If they sign a few more Koreans by being able to just buy their plane tickets, you will see SK have 3 in the top 5 of every tournament without having to do a single thing.
I wouldn't be surprised if they had this planned from this start. Why bother growing a team when this is a risk-free venture for all the rewards of having your own team?!?!? There is a reason the Yankees are the Yankees.
This, every single foreign tourney MC has done hes gotten at least ro8. He has 3 major foreign tourney wins and 3 top 3 finishes...how could that not be beneficial when he's carrying their logo?
On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote: Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players.
But they didn't buy these players from oGs, they loaned them, which is a lot worse, because it effectively leaves them with two teams, making it look like the players have no loyalty to oGs, no commitment to either oGs or SK, and SK having no commitment to their teams and SC2, especially long term (remember how they ditched previous ones). It's a half-assed publicity stunt on all fronts, and the responses you see here as well as elsewhere reflect that. That and SK's previously battered reputation. This move is disastrous if you can look past the "we will see more NaDa and MC", and even that is arguable as both NaDa and MC had (planned) appearances in events based outside of Korea.
On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote: Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players.
Dood, what are you talking about.
Orga's buying players out of their contracts is indeed common both in sports and in e-sports (mostly CS).
This has nothing to do with it. Take your basketball player - he's not being transferred. He's just receiving some money to make a shoutout for another team at the end of a game. In some competitions
Exactly - your basketball example is moot because in this case, there is no transfer.
Exactly, which means its even less of a big deal. So people need to quit whining.
On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote: Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players.
Could you please explain to me why this is beneficial for SK? I'm not trying to be hostile or anything. But i'm just seeing this having a negative impact on SK as a brand. They may attract new and uneducated fans, but as has been said before, they'll learn that MC and NaDa actually are not a product of SK, but of oGs, and thus noone will really care that they're representing SK, when oGs is the real reason behind their success. And sponsors will know this aswell, no doubt.
The organization will in my opinion look like a bunch of slackers looking for a quick buck, even though that's not the case.
Could you please explain to me why having players on a team is beneficial for any team?
Teams make money off exposure and advertising. If you read the comments, half the community here has no idea who SK is as an organization. Now they will have top contenders in every foreigner tournament wearing their (and their sponsors) logo. This is basically what every team dreams of. They also developed links to Korea, which no other team has done (aside from TL, because they had ties to Spunky). Do you guys know how many players want the chance to come from Korea to play in foreigner tournaments? Now they can have them on contract. If they sign a few more Koreans by being able to just buy their plane tickets, you will see SK have 3 in the top 5 of every tournament without having to do a single thing.
I wouldn't be surprised if they had this planned from this start. Why bother growing a team when this is a risk-free venture for all the rewards of having your own team?!?!? There is a reason the Yankees are the Yankees.
Okay, replace "made" with "contributed", and you get my point. SK had absolutely nothing to with the success of these players, and they have no right to display them as their players, unless they buy them from oGs.
The only thing SK will do, according to the information at hand, is send them to events outside of Korea, do you think that that's enough to call them SK players? I know i certainly don't.
They're taking another teams work and claiming it their own, more or less. And most intelligent people will see through this, that's why i think it's not gonna give them any good publicity.
I do on the other hand like that we will get to see NaDa and MC in a huge amount of foreign tournaments though. So from that perspective it's great!
im sorry but SK.MC doesnt sound right lol, imagin MC makes it to the final round of a tournament and we are calling him SK.MC :S when we all know he is OGS.MC
meh anyway , whatever floats SK's boat, if that means Nada is coming to foreign tournaments, then hell yes!!
SK gains 2 players wearing their name in foreign tournaments and winning for them, SK.MC and SK.NaDa Nada and MC get a way to constantly play on big foreign tournaments from this while still being able to play in Korea
This will be sweet. This trend of foreign teams to get Korean players in their rosters is working greatly both for the viewers and the players.
All I know is, if MC and Nada agreed to this, they must have done it for what they believe to be the right reasons and what personally makes them happy. A team is a team, but the players are what matters.
On July 16 2011 00:51 Dymeter wrote: SK gains 2 players wearing their name in foreign tournaments and winning for them, SK.MC and SK.NaDa Nada and MC get a way to constantly play on big foreign tournaments from this while still being able to play in Korea
This will be sweet. This trend of foreign teams to get Korean players in their rosters is working greatly both for the viewers and the players.
Yah and this is also due to the fact that increasing number of foreign tournaments invite Koreans to play.
On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote: Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players.
Could you please explain to me why this is beneficial for SK? I'm not trying to be hostile or anything. But i'm just seeing this having a negative impact on SK as a brand. They may attract new and uneducated fans, but as has been said before, they'll learn that MC and NaDa actually are not a product of SK, but of oGs, and thus noone will really care that they're representing SK, when oGs is the real reason behind their success. And sponsors will know this aswell, no doubt.
The organization will in my opinion look like a bunch of slackers looking for a quick buck, even though that's not the case.
Could you please explain to me why having players on a team is beneficial for any team?
Teams make money off exposure and advertising. If you read the comments, half the community here has no idea who SK is as an organization. Now they will have top contenders in every foreigner tournament wearing their (and their sponsors) logo. This is basically what every team dreams of. They also developed links to Korea, which no other team has done (aside from TL, because they had ties to Spunky). Do you guys know how many players want the chance to come from Korea to play in foreigner tournaments? Now they can have them on contract. If they sign a few more Koreans by being able to just buy their plane tickets, you will see SK have 3 in the top 5 of every tournament without having to do a single thing.
I wouldn't be surprised if they had this planned from this start. Why bother growing a team when this is a risk-free venture for all the rewards of having your own team?!?!? There is a reason the Yankees are the Yankees.
SK has the connections. It is just a bit unexpected that they'd do a partnership or sponsorship in this way.
SK had many Koreans in their wc3 squad. They also know most if not all famous ex-wc3 Korean players who no doubt switched over to sc2.
Obviously if they don't pay MC or NaDa any prize money they won or any other accommodation that they've settled in their contracts (presuming there are contracts) the whole sc2 world will shit on SK and SK will no doubt face the negative consequences from their own sponsors.
P.S. I'm so happy to see NaDa compete at a foreign tournament in sc2 ^^ Day9 to cast it would make it perfect :D
Also, lol at the idea of 'growing' a SC2 team. Sure its a nice story, but SK has already 'grown' its entire organization for 10+ years now. You guys think just any random organization can pull something like this off? SK earned its reputation and can now do this kind of stuff as it sees fit. The reaction to this to me just shows how ignorant a lot of the new sc2 community is when it comes to esports in general. CS was a lot liek this in its very early days, but eventually the business side of things became more understood. At the end of the day, you get to see your favorite players competing in more tournament, and thats great for everybody involved, despite what a few people with sour grapes might think.
On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote: Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players.
Could you please explain to me why this is beneficial for SK? I'm not trying to be hostile or anything. But i'm just seeing this having a negative impact on SK as a brand. They may attract new and uneducated fans, but as has been said before, they'll learn that MC and NaDa actually are not a product of SK, but of oGs, and thus noone will really care that they're representing SK, when oGs is the real reason behind their success. And sponsors will know this aswell, no doubt.
The organization will in my opinion look like a bunch of slackers looking for a quick buck, even though that's not the case.
Could you please explain to me why having players on a team is beneficial for any team?
Teams make money off exposure and advertising. If you read the comments, half the community here has no idea who SK is as an organization. Now they will have top contenders in every foreigner tournament wearing their (and their sponsors) logo. This is basically what every team dreams of. They also developed links to Korea, which no other team has done (aside from TL, because they had ties to Spunky). Do you guys know how many players want the chance to come from Korea to play in foreigner tournaments? Now they can have them on contract. If they sign a few more Koreans by being able to just buy their plane tickets, you will see SK have 3 in the top 5 of every tournament without having to do a single thing.
I wouldn't be surprised if they had this planned from this start. Why bother growing a team when this is a risk-free venture for all the rewards of having your own team?!?!? There is a reason the Yankees are the Yankees.
Okay, replace "made" with "contributed", and you get my point. SK had absolutely nothing to with the success of these players, and they have no right to display them as their players, unless they buy them from oGs.
The only thing SK will do, according to the information at hand, is send them to events outside of Korea, do you think that that's enough to call them SK players? I know i certainly don't.
They're taking another teams work and claiming it their own, more or less. And most intelligent people will see through this, that's why i think it's not gonna give them any good publicity.
I do on the other hand like that we will get to see NaDa and MC in a huge amount of foreign tournaments though. So from that perspective it's great!
It doesn't matter. MC and Nada will be on a podium in a foreign country with a SK shirt and a big fat SteelSeries logo while 80k+ look on and many more watch in vods.
This type of advertising comes at the price of a plane ticket. Sure he will always be oGs MC, but what comes before his name is irrelevant. SK can go to their sponsors and say "Hey look, we have a guy wearing our shirt, showing your logo, and hes winning everything!!!!!!! Give us more money!".
It doesn't matter that we all know that his real team is oGs. SK itself is now a sponsor, kinda like Razer sponsoring Boxer, or Stride sponsoring Tyler. He gets plane tickets to tournaments, gets to keep the money (or some/most of it), and all he has to do is wear a different shirt (note oGs doesn't even have any sponsors that they would want to direct towards the foreigner world). On the other hand, SK goes from being nothing in the SC2 scene, to having a 20+ page thread, and their names and sponsors are mentioned at every foreign tournament MC and Nada are in (which is what teams want of their players anyway).
I think you are missing the point. This is a business decision, not an ethical one. Yes he is on oGs, but it doesn't matter to SK or hurt them in any way.
On July 16 2011 00:58 stratmatt wrote: Also, lol at the idea of 'growing' a SC2 team. Sure its a nice story, but SK has already 'grown' its entire organization for 10+ years now. You guys think just any random organization can pull something like this off? SK earned its reputation and can now do this kind of stuff as it sees fit. The reaction to this to me just shows how ignorant a lot of the new sc2 community is when it comes to esports in general. CS was a lot liek this in its very early days, but eventually the business side of things became more understood. At the end of the day, you get to see your favorite players competing in more tournament, and thats great for everybody involved, despite what a few people with sour grapes might think.
I see your point - but out of curiousity, when did part-time contracted ringing in dual teams happen "back in the early days"?
On July 16 2011 00:58 stratmatt wrote: Also, lol at the idea of 'growing' a SC2 team. Sure its a nice story, but SK has already 'grown' its entire organization for 10+ years now. You guys think just any random organization can pull something like this off? SK earned its reputation and can now do this kind of stuff as it sees fit. The reaction to this to me just shows how ignorant a lot of the new sc2 community is when it comes to esports in general. CS was a lot liek this in its very early days, but eventually the business side of things became more understood. At the end of the day, you get to see your favorite players competing in more tournament, and thats great for everybody involved, despite what a few people with sour grapes might think.
I see your point - but out of curiousity, when did part-time contracted ringing in dual teams happen "back in the early days"?
Ringing was very common in cs at pretty much all times during its life.
On July 16 2011 00:58 stratmatt wrote: Also, lol at the idea of 'growing' a SC2 team. Sure its a nice story, but SK has already 'grown' its entire organization for 10+ years now. You guys think just any random organization can pull something like this off? SK earned its reputation and can now do this kind of stuff as it sees fit. The reaction to this to me just shows how ignorant a lot of the new sc2 community is when it comes to esports in general. CS was a lot liek this in its very early days, but eventually the business side of things became more understood. At the end of the day, you get to see your favorite players competing in more tournament, and thats great for everybody involved, despite what a few people with sour grapes might think.
I see your point - but out of curiousity, when did part-time contracted ringing in dual teams happen "back in the early days"?
Ringing was very common in cs at pretty much all times during its life.
I know "ringing" was - this isn't filling in for a match mind you. I'm referring to "part-time contracted ringing in dual teams". Big difference.
On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote: Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players.
Could you please explain to me why this is beneficial for SK? I'm not trying to be hostile or anything. But i'm just seeing this having a negative impact on SK as a brand. They may attract new and uneducated fans, but as has been said before, they'll learn that MC and NaDa actually are not a product of SK, but of oGs, and thus noone will really care that they're representing SK, when oGs is the real reason behind their success. And sponsors will know this aswell, no doubt.
The organization will in my opinion look like a bunch of slackers looking for a quick buck, even though that's not the case.
Could you please explain to me why having players on a team is beneficial for any team?
Teams make money off exposure and advertising. If you read the comments, half the community here has no idea who SK is as an organization. Now they will have top contenders in every foreigner tournament wearing their (and their sponsors) logo. This is basically what every team dreams of. They also developed links to Korea, which no other team has done (aside from TL, because they had ties to Spunky). Do you guys know how many players want the chance to come from Korea to play in foreigner tournaments? Now they can have them on contract. If they sign a few more Koreans by being able to just buy their plane tickets, you will see SK have 3 in the top 5 of every tournament without having to do a single thing.
I wouldn't be surprised if they had this planned from this start. Why bother growing a team when this is a risk-free venture for all the rewards of having your own team?!?!? There is a reason the Yankees are the Yankees.
Okay, replace "made" with "contributed", and you get my point. SK had absolutely nothing to with the success of these players, and they have no right to display them as their players, unless they buy them from oGs.
The only thing SK will do, according to the information at hand, is send them to events outside of Korea, do you think that that's enough to call them SK players? I know i certainly don't.
They're taking another teams work and claiming it their own, more or less. And most intelligent people will see through this, that's why i think it's not gonna give them any good publicity.
I do on the other hand like that we will get to see NaDa and MC in a huge amount of foreign tournaments though. So from that perspective it's great!
It doesn't matter. MC and Nada will be on a podium in a foreign country with a SK shirt and a big fat SteelSeries logo while 80k+ look on and many more watch in vods.
This type of advertising comes at the price of a plane ticket. Sure he will always be oGs MC, but what comes before his name is irrelevant. SK can go to their sponsors and say "Hey look, we have a guy wearing our shirt, showing your logo, and hes winning everything!!!!!!! Give us more money!".
It doesn't matter that we all know that his real team is oGs. SK itself is now a sponsor, kinda like Razer sponsoring Boxer, or Stride sponsoring Tyler. He gets plane tickets to tournaments, gets to keep the money (or some/most of it), and all he has to do is wear a different shirt (note oGs doesn't even have any sponsors that they would want to direct towards the foreigner world). On the other hand, SK goes from being nothing in the SC2 scene, to having a 20+ page thread, and their names and sponsors are mentioned at every foreign tournament MC and Nada are in (which is what teams want of their players anyway).
I think you are missing the point. This is a business decision, not an ethical one. Yes he is on oGs, but it doesn't matter to SK or hurt them in any way.
I understand that it is a buisness descision, but i still don't think it's a good one. If fans can see through their "plan", then so can sponsors. Do you think companies like Intel, Steelseries or BigFoot for example want to be associated with a team that most viewers/fans don't like? I don't.
On July 15 2011 18:55 RolleMcKnolle wrote: Hmm dunno, as long as they are not really leaving oGs, it's not that big of a change. Its just the uniform they are wearing. Nothing about training, housing or similar stuff
They are basicly representing SK from what im reading in foreign events. Seems kinda a terrible deal for SK as its not really their "Own" players but just someone you bought to represent you
Isn't that how every pro gaming team works? And it's less about the team name than it is the sponsors behind it. Chances are, oGs has no sponsors that would want representation outside of Korea or at least SK's sponsors don't conflict with oGs' sponsors.
This is amazing news, I would love to see more of MC in the states.
On July 15 2011 18:56 CEPEHDREI wrote: i dont like it as a fan of teams and players. feels rly weird
i feel the same way. its just awkward. as a player you are part of two teams? that just makes no sense to me. well i guess if theyre okay with it then it doesnt matter. hope thats the case
This just comes off as really desperate by SK. They just completely missed the SC2 boat and went "o shit we need some players. lets pay these two guys to represent us". Problem solved!
On July 16 2011 00:43 heaven- wrote: Why are people freaking out...
SK has always had koreans represent them in RTS games.
SK.Lyn SK.Violet
Etc...etc..
Yes, but when the koreans played for them in WC3 they didn't play for WemadeFOX at the same time. Thats what makes me angry about this whole thing. If you want them (MC and NaDa in this case) to represent your organisation and promote your sponsors, then you fucking cough up some cash to buy them from oGs so they are YOUR PLAYERS. You don't fucking borrow them from another team. But SK is either to stingy to buy them out from oGs, pay them salary and pay trips to tournaments, or they can't afford it. Either way, they must be pretty desperate to have a foot in the sc2 scene when they do like this instead of getting their own team.
On July 16 2011 00:58 stratmatt wrote: Also, lol at the idea of 'growing' a SC2 team. Sure its a nice story, but SK has already 'grown' its entire organization for 10+ years now. You guys think just any random organization can pull something like this off? SK earned its reputation and can now do this kind of stuff as it sees fit. The reaction to this to me just shows how ignorant a lot of the new sc2 community is when it comes to esports in general. CS was a lot liek this in its very early days, but eventually the business side of things became more understood. At the end of the day, you get to see your favorite players competing in more tournament, and thats great for everybody involved, despite what a few people with sour grapes might think.
I see your point - but out of curiousity, when did part-time contracted ringing in dual teams happen "back in the early days"?
Ringing was very common in cs at pretty much all times during its life.
I know "ringing" was - this isn't filling in for a match mind you. I'm referring to "part-time contracted ringing in dual teams". Big difference.
Ok, so now instead of just wasting your time ringing for a team hoping to make some prize money, you get paid to do it and compete more. Sounds like a win/win for MC/Nada. IF OGS was up to it, they should be paying for their players to travel more, but they are not,so oh well huh? I bet MC has been useing his own prize money to travel. Now he wont have to.
On July 16 2011 00:43 heaven- wrote: Why are people freaking out...
SK has always had koreans represent them in RTS games.
SK.Lyn SK.Violet
Etc...etc..
Yes, but when the koreans played for them in WC3 they didn't play for WemadeFOX at the same time. Thats what makes me angry about this whole thing. If you want them (MC and NaDa in this case) to represent your organisation and promote your sponsors, then you fucking cough up some cash to buy them from oGs so they are YOUR PLAYERS. You don't fucking borrow them from another team. But SK is either to stingy to buy them out from oGs, pay them salary and pay trips to tournaments, or they can't afford it. Either way, they must be pretty desperate to have a foot in the sc2 scene when they do like this instead of getting their own team.
MC and Nada wouldn't leave oGs for a team with no other players...how would they practice? Seriously. Unless they offered MC a million bucks it wouldn't be worth never winning another tourney cuz he has no practice partners.
following the counter-strike scene for a while and right now SK-gaming has the worst possible status ever, they dont pay their team or do anything right basically. therefor, im saddend to see 2 great players like MC and NaDa representing such a dirty org. why do they need to any way? they could create their own thing and get way more attention. i'm hoping that SK paid them a lot beforehand, or they will probably end up being screwed in the end.
On July 16 2011 00:43 heaven- wrote: Why are people freaking out...
SK has always had koreans represent them in RTS games.
SK.Lyn SK.Violet
Etc...etc..
Yes, but when the koreans played for them in WC3 they didn't play for WemadeFOX at the same time. Thats what makes me angry about this whole thing. If you want them (MC and NaDa in this case) to represent your organisation and promote your sponsors, then you fucking cough up some cash to buy them from oGs so they are YOUR PLAYERS. You don't fucking borrow them from another team. But SK is either to stingy to buy them out from oGs, pay them salary and pay trips to tournaments, or they can't afford it. Either way, they must be pretty desperate to have a foot in the sc2 scene when they do like this instead of getting their own team.
MC and Nada wouldn't leave oGs for a team with no other players...how would they practice? Seriously. Unless they offered MC a million bucks it wouldn't be worth never winning another tourney cuz he has no practice partners.
I actually thought about that when i first read the news, and it just contributes to how desperate SK are. It's obvious they have little to no pull in this deal, otherwise they would've bought the players out, not made a deal like this.
On July 16 2011 00:43 heaven- wrote: Why are people freaking out...
SK has always had koreans represent them in RTS games.
SK.Lyn SK.Violet
Etc...etc..
Yes, but when the koreans played for them in WC3 they didn't play for WemadeFOX at the same time. Thats what makes me angry about this whole thing. If you want them (MC and NaDa in this case) to represent your organisation and promote your sponsors, then you fucking cough up some cash to buy them from oGs so they are YOUR PLAYERS. You don't fucking borrow them from another team. But SK is either to stingy to buy them out from oGs, pay them salary and pay trips to tournaments, or they can't afford it. Either way, they must be pretty desperate to have a foot in the sc2 scene when they do like this instead of getting their own team.
MC and Nada wouldn't leave oGs for a team with no other players...how would they practice? Seriously. Unless they offered MC a million bucks it wouldn't be worth never winning another tourney cuz he has no practice partners.
I know, but SK doesn't get this. They need a big, "real" team to come anywhere in Starcraft, but they are to stingy for this. They failed this in Brood War and they failed in SC2 with 3 man lineup and when this deal is over they are back at square 1.
On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote: Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players.
Could you please explain to me why this is beneficial for SK? I'm not trying to be hostile or anything. But i'm just seeing this having a negative impact on SK as a brand. They may attract new and uneducated fans, but as has been said before, they'll learn that MC and NaDa actually are not a product of SK, but of oGs, and thus noone will really care that they're representing SK, when oGs is the real reason behind their success. And sponsors will know this aswell, no doubt.
The organization will in my opinion look like a bunch of slackers looking for a quick buck, even though that's not the case.
Could you please explain to me why having players on a team is beneficial for any team?
Teams make money off exposure and advertising. If you read the comments, half the community here has no idea who SK is as an organization. Now they will have top contenders in every foreigner tournament wearing their (and their sponsors) logo. This is basically what every team dreams of. They also developed links to Korea, which no other team has done (aside from TL, because they had ties to Spunky). Do you guys know how many players want the chance to come from Korea to play in foreigner tournaments? Now they can have them on contract. If they sign a few more Koreans by being able to just buy their plane tickets, you will see SK have 3 in the top 5 of every tournament without having to do a single thing.
I wouldn't be surprised if they had this planned from this start. Why bother growing a team when this is a risk-free venture for all the rewards of having your own team?!?!? There is a reason the Yankees are the Yankees.
Okay, replace "made" with "contributed", and you get my point. SK had absolutely nothing to with the success of these players, and they have no right to display them as their players, unless they buy them from oGs.
The only thing SK will do, according to the information at hand, is send them to events outside of Korea, do you think that that's enough to call them SK players? I know i certainly don't.
They're taking another teams work and claiming it their own, more or less. And most intelligent people will see through this, that's why i think it's not gonna give them any good publicity.
I do on the other hand like that we will get to see NaDa and MC in a huge amount of foreign tournaments though. So from that perspective it's great!
I can see that. But you are overestimating the team involvement and development of foreign teams. The foreign model is mostly disconnected, players never see their teammates or even interact unless somehow they meet at a live event. Only if it's a team-based game there will be more interaction, but for 1v1 games like SC2, it's very disconnected and being on a "team" mostly means sponsorship.
On July 16 2011 00:58 stratmatt wrote: Also, lol at the idea of 'growing' a SC2 team. Sure its a nice story, but SK has already 'grown' its entire organization for 10+ years now. You guys think just any random organization can pull something like this off? SK earned its reputation and can now do this kind of stuff as it sees fit. The reaction to this to me just shows how ignorant a lot of the new sc2 community is when it comes to esports in general. CS was a lot liek this in its very early days, but eventually the business side of things became more understood. At the end of the day, you get to see your favorite players competing in more tournament, and thats great for everybody involved, despite what a few people with sour grapes might think.
I see your point - but out of curiousity, when did part-time contracted ringing in dual teams happen "back in the early days"?
Ringing was very common in cs at pretty much all times during its life.
I know "ringing" was - this isn't filling in for a match mind you. I'm referring to "part-time contracted ringing in dual teams". Big difference.
Ok, so now instead of just wasting your time ringing for a team hoping to make some prize money, you get paid to do it and compete more. Sounds like a win/win for MC/Nada. IF OGS was up to it, they should be paying for their players to travel more, but they are not,so oh well huh? I bet MC has been useing his own prize money to travel. Now he wont have to.
Look, i understand the advantages of this move for oGs, it's obvious - the fans win as well because they get to see both players in more international events.
I was just being really nitpicky (unnecessarily so maybe) about your "CS was a lot like this in its early days" because that's inaccurate, it was never like this. The scene then never had this dual team contracted representation at all.
On July 16 2011 01:20 Nastiness wrote: Team borrows/Loan players from each other all the time in other sports Why should ur precious esport be any different.
Great puck by SK hope this will lead to prohouse next year and some more good signings
Yes, but not like this. If a team loan a player, it is most likely for the season, but this is more like "ok one week i'm a "oGs player" and next week when I'm in USA I will be a "SK player". It doesn't make sense.
The problem with cs is that it was dieing out before the business of esports was well defined enough to make anything worthwhile. With sc2 we have a brand new game with the enthusiasm and infrastructure needed in place to take esports to a whole new level globally. SK is one of the best esports orgs out there despite what some people here say, and this is the best possible move they could have made. SK's reputation combined with Nada and Mc's is a great thing for sc2 any way you slice it. Plus its nice to see the very best cs team on the same team as the best sc2 players SK doesnt **** around.
On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote: Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players.
Could you please explain to me why this is beneficial for SK? I'm not trying to be hostile or anything. But i'm just seeing this having a negative impact on SK as a brand. They may attract new and uneducated fans, but as has been said before, they'll learn that MC and NaDa actually are not a product of SK, but of oGs, and thus noone will really care that they're representing SK, when oGs is the real reason behind their success. And sponsors will know this aswell, no doubt.
The organization will in my opinion look like a bunch of slackers looking for a quick buck, even though that's not the case.
Could you please explain to me why having players on a team is beneficial for any team?
Teams make money off exposure and advertising. If you read the comments, half the community here has no idea who SK is as an organization. Now they will have top contenders in every foreigner tournament wearing their (and their sponsors) logo. This is basically what every team dreams of. They also developed links to Korea, which no other team has done (aside from TL, because they had ties to Spunky). Do you guys know how many players want the chance to come from Korea to play in foreigner tournaments? Now they can have them on contract. If they sign a few more Koreans by being able to just buy their plane tickets, you will see SK have 3 in the top 5 of every tournament without having to do a single thing.
I wouldn't be surprised if they had this planned from this start. Why bother growing a team when this is a risk-free venture for all the rewards of having your own team?!?!? There is a reason the Yankees are the Yankees.
Okay, replace "made" with "contributed", and you get my point. SK had absolutely nothing to with the success of these players, and they have no right to display them as their players, unless they buy them from oGs.
The only thing SK will do, according to the information at hand, is send them to events outside of Korea, do you think that that's enough to call them SK players? I know i certainly don't.
They're taking another teams work and claiming it their own, more or less. And most intelligent people will see through this, that's why i think it's not gonna give them any good publicity.
I do on the other hand like that we will get to see NaDa and MC in a huge amount of foreign tournaments though. So from that perspective it's great!
I can see that. But you are overestimating the team involvement and development of foreign teams. The foreign model is mostly disconnected, players never see their teammates or even interact unless somehow they meet at a live event. Only if it's a team-based game there will be more interaction, but for 1v1 games like SC2, it's very disconnected and being on a "team" mostly means sponsorship.
Surely foreign teams still practice together online and are managed by their teams, right? SK is sending MC and NaDa to events. A financial sponsor. Oh right, they're providing a translator, NaDa and MC are obviously SK players! <------- Internet sarcasm.
On July 16 2011 01:27 stratmatt wrote: The problem with cs is that it was dieing out before the business of esports was well defined enough to make anything worthwhile. With sc2 we have a brand new game with the enthusiasm and infrastructure needed in place to take esports to a whole new level globally. SK is one of the best esports orgs out there despite what some people here say, and this is the best possible move they could have made. SK's reputation combined with Nada and Mc's is a great thing for sc2 any way you slice it. Plus its nice to see the very best cs team on the same team as the best sc2 players SK doesnt **** around.
Isn't fucking around what they are doing though? They're dipping a toe, and not putting the whole foot down. It seems to me like they're afraid of taking the big step of making a team of their own, after the failure of their "rookie" team.
On July 16 2011 01:20 Nastiness wrote: Team borrows/Loan players from each other all the time in other sports Why should ur precious esport be any different.
Great puck by SK hope this will lead to prohouse next year and some more good signings
Yes, but not like this. If a team loan a player, it is most likely for the season, but this is more like "ok one week i'm a "oGs player" and next week when I'm in USA I will be a "SK player". It doesn't make sense.
I think OGS probably doesn't have enough money to sponsor them to go to international events.
SK is a much larger gaming corporation, so they basically said they'll sponsor MC and Nada for international events if they wear SK tag during it.
On July 16 2011 01:27 stratmatt wrote: The problem with cs is that it was dieing out before the business of esports was well defined enough to make anything worthwhile. With sc2 we have a brand new game with the enthusiasm and infrastructure needed in place to take esports to a whole new level globally. SK is one of the best esports orgs out there despite what some people here say, and this is the best possible move they could have made. SK's reputation combined with Nada and Mc's is a great thing for sc2 any way you slice it. Plus its nice to see the very best cs team on the same team as the best sc2 players SK doesnt **** around.
Isn't fucking around what they are doing though? They're dipping a toe, and not putting the whole foot down. It seems to me like they're afraid of taking the big step of making a team of their own, after the failure of their "rookie" team.
How is ponying up the cash to support the best players in the world and give them what they want 'dipping their toe in'? They dont want to pay for subpar players and HOPE things work out in a few years. They want to WIN, and NOW. Like I said, if OGS were up to sending these guys the world over to compete, SK wouldnt have anything to offer them, but in this case they do.
On July 16 2011 01:20 Nastiness wrote: Team borrows/Loan players from each other all the time in other sports Why should ur precious esport be any different.
Great puck by SK hope this will lead to prohouse next year and some more good signings
The way you say it, why form a team when everyone can just borrow all the top players. Let's add Nestea and MvP in this team of theirs as well. Hey its supposed to happen like this all the time... >_>
On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote: Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players.
Could you please explain to me why this is beneficial for SK? I'm not trying to be hostile or anything. But i'm just seeing this having a negative impact on SK as a brand. They may attract new and uneducated fans, but as has been said before, they'll learn that MC and NaDa actually are not a product of SK, but of oGs, and thus noone will really care that they're representing SK, when oGs is the real reason behind their success. And sponsors will know this aswell, no doubt.
The organization will in my opinion look like a bunch of slackers looking for a quick buck, even though that's not the case.
Could you please explain to me why having players on a team is beneficial for any team?
Teams make money off exposure and advertising. If you read the comments, half the community here has no idea who SK is as an organization. Now they will have top contenders in every foreigner tournament wearing their (and their sponsors) logo. This is basically what every team dreams of. They also developed links to Korea, which no other team has done (aside from TL, because they had ties to Spunky). Do you guys know how many players want the chance to come from Korea to play in foreigner tournaments? Now they can have them on contract. If they sign a few more Koreans by being able to just buy their plane tickets, you will see SK have 3 in the top 5 of every tournament without having to do a single thing.
I wouldn't be surprised if they had this planned from this start. Why bother growing a team when this is a risk-free venture for all the rewards of having your own team?!?!? There is a reason the Yankees are the Yankees.
Okay, replace "made" with "contributed", and you get my point. SK had absolutely nothing to with the success of these players, and they have no right to display them as their players, unless they buy them from oGs.
The only thing SK will do, according to the information at hand, is send them to events outside of Korea, do you think that that's enough to call them SK players? I know i certainly don't.
They're taking another teams work and claiming it their own, more or less. And most intelligent people will see through this, that's why i think it's not gonna give them any good publicity.
I do on the other hand like that we will get to see NaDa and MC in a huge amount of foreign tournaments though. So from that perspective it's great!
I can see that. But you are overestimating the team involvement and development of foreign teams. The foreign model is mostly disconnected, players never see their teammates or even interact unless somehow they meet at a live event. Only if it's a team-based game there will be more interaction, but for 1v1 games like SC2, it's very disconnected and being on a "team" mostly means sponsorship.
Surely foreign teams still practice together online and are managed by their teams, right? SK is sending MC and NaDa to events. A financial sponsor. Oh right, they're providing a translator, NaDa and MC are obviously SK players! <------- Internet sarcasm.
Some do practice together, many don't.
This is a great move by SK and oGs, it's a win/win/win/win situation. The players will be attending more events while still practicing like before, oGs gets happy players and doesn't have to pay for it, the fans get to see more of MC and Nada and SK gets excellent exposure. The only uncertain bit is if it's worth it for SK but since none of us know what kind of money they have to put out one must assume they believe it's beneficial for them and their sponsors.
On July 16 2011 01:27 stratmatt wrote: The problem with cs is that it was dieing out before the business of esports was well defined enough to make anything worthwhile. With sc2 we have a brand new game with the enthusiasm and infrastructure needed in place to take esports to a whole new level globally. SK is one of the best esports orgs out there despite what some people here say, and this is the best possible move they could have made. SK's reputation combined with Nada and Mc's is a great thing for sc2 any way you slice it. Plus its nice to see the very best cs team on the same team as the best sc2 players SK doesnt **** around.
Isn't fucking around what they are doing though? They're dipping a toe, and not putting the whole foot down. It seems to me like they're afraid of taking the big step of making a team of their own, after the failure of their "rookie" team.
How is ponying up the cash to support the best players in the world and give them what they want 'dipping their toe in'? They dont want to pay for subpar players and HOPE things work out in a few years. They want to WIN, and NOW. Like I said, if OGS were up to sending these guys the world over to compete, SK wouldnt have anything to offer them, but in this case they do.
What SK are doing isn't a serious commitment, it's taking advantage of an infrastructure (ie, OGS's support for their players) that's already in place. This is a risky move for them because the "eeeh wtf?" value may outweigh the "Nada at more international tournaments, yay!" value. It's also risky for MC, Nada and OGS because of the SK organisation's generally poor reputation.
On July 16 2011 01:27 stratmatt wrote: The problem with cs is that it was dieing out before the business of esports was well defined enough to make anything worthwhile. With sc2 we have a brand new game with the enthusiasm and infrastructure needed in place to take esports to a whole new level globally. SK is one of the best esports orgs out there despite what some people here say, and this is the best possible move they could have made. SK's reputation combined with Nada and Mc's is a great thing for sc2 any way you slice it. Plus its nice to see the very best cs team on the same team as the best sc2 players SK doesnt **** around.
Isn't fucking around what they are doing though? They're dipping a toe, and not putting the whole foot down. It seems to me like they're afraid of taking the big step of making a team of their own, after the failure of their "rookie" team.
How is ponying up the cash to support the best players in the world and give them what they want 'dipping their toe in'? They dont want to pay for subpar players and HOPE things work out in a few years. They want to WIN, and NOW. Like I said, if OGS were up to sending these guys the world over to compete, SK wouldnt have anything to offer them, but in this case they do.
Yeah sure, i'm all for oGsMC and oGsNaDa beeing at more events. But the doing this deal does not give any credit to SK, apart from spewing up money. oGs still did the work, and that's they way people are gonna look at it. The benefit of having a team of their own would be much greater, even if they didn't win as often. That's what i mean by dipping a toe. They're not willing to commit, and they're gonna get critisized for it.
Ponying up the cash to send two players to events around the world is a very small fraction of having a team of their own, and they're only gonna get a very small fraction of the credit aswell. SK is simply a personal sponsor to these two players, as has been said so many times before.
And no, a team and a sponsor is not the same, a sponsor throws money at a team to do the work. This is why i very much dislike SK claiming NaDa and MC as "their" players.
Good deal for MC and NaDa, but not sure its a good deal for SK. People will still see them as oGs members, and will credit their success to the training in the oGs/Liquid house. But i guess it will make some good exposure for SK anyway, MC and NaDa can show good results with SK logo on jacket.
Either way its good for esports in general, since we get to see NaDa and MC much more :>
On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote: Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players.
Could you please explain to me why this is beneficial for SK? I'm not trying to be hostile or anything. But i'm just seeing this having a negative impact on SK as a brand. They may attract new and uneducated fans, but as has been said before, they'll learn that MC and NaDa actually are not a product of SK, but of oGs, and thus noone will really care that they're representing SK, when oGs is the real reason behind their success. And sponsors will know this aswell, no doubt.
The organization will in my opinion look like a bunch of slackers looking for a quick buck, even though that's not the case.
Could you please explain to me why having players on a team is beneficial for any team?
Teams make money off exposure and advertising. If you read the comments, half the community here has no idea who SK is as an organization. Now they will have top contenders in every foreigner tournament wearing their (and their sponsors) logo. This is basically what every team dreams of. They also developed links to Korea, which no other team has done (aside from TL, because they had ties to Spunky). Do you guys know how many players want the chance to come from Korea to play in foreigner tournaments? Now they can have them on contract. If they sign a few more Koreans by being able to just buy their plane tickets, you will see SK have 3 in the top 5 of every tournament without having to do a single thing.
I wouldn't be surprised if they had this planned from this start. Why bother growing a team when this is a risk-free venture for all the rewards of having your own team?!?!? There is a reason the Yankees are the Yankees.
Okay, replace "made" with "contributed", and you get my point. SK had absolutely nothing to with the success of these players, and they have no right to display them as their players, unless they buy them from oGs.
The only thing SK will do, according to the information at hand, is send them to events outside of Korea, do you think that that's enough to call them SK players? I know i certainly don't.
They're taking another teams work and claiming it their own, more or less. And most intelligent people will see through this, that's why i think it's not gonna give them any good publicity.
I do on the other hand like that we will get to see NaDa and MC in a huge amount of foreign tournaments though. So from that perspective it's great!
I can see that. But you are overestimating the team involvement and development of foreign teams. The foreign model is mostly disconnected, players never see their teammates or even interact unless somehow they meet at a live event. Only if it's a team-based game there will be more interaction, but for 1v1 games like SC2, it's very disconnected and being on a "team" mostly means sponsorship.
Surely foreign teams still practice together online and are managed by their teams, right? SK is sending MC and NaDa to events. A financial sponsor. Oh right, they're providing a translator, NaDa and MC are obviously SK players! <------- Internet sarcasm.
Some do practice together, many don't.
This is a great move by SK and oGs, it's a win/win/win/win situation. The players will be attending more events while still practicing like before, oGs gets happy players and doesn't have to pay for it, the fans get to see more of MC and Nada and SK gets excellent exposure. The only uncertain bit is if it's worth it for SK but since none of us know what kind of money they have to put out one must assume they believe it's beneficial for them and their sponsors.
If i'm oGs, MC or NaDa, i love the deal, no doubt. If i'm SK i definately don't, in my eyes it just makes them look like less than what they really are, which i suspect it does for most people. On the other hand they may very well have more plans that we don't know about, they might be thinking along the lines that it will attract alot of good players because of these two beasts beeing on the "team" to eventually start a real team, but i think any "real" progamer will realize that they won't get much of an opportunity to practice with them, but who knows what's going on behind the curtains.
With the information provided at this point i can't do anything but critisize SK, and love the fact that we get to see more of MC and NaDa.
This feels akward for me too. Feels like SK is paying to have their badge put on oGmMC and oGsNada. Why not sponsor oGs and have your badge on all of their players all of the time?
On July 16 2011 01:58 Zeddicus wrote: This feels akward for me too. Feels like SK is paying to have their badge put on oGmMC and oGsNada. Why not sponsor oGs and have your badge on all of their players all of the time?
Cause they want this sponsorship to look like MC and NaDa are actually SK players.
On July 16 2011 01:52 stratmatt wrote: MC and Nada do the work, buddy. They decide who they represent, not you.
Yeah so giving MC a perfect living condition to be the very best he can, that counts for nothing, huh? Having a manager always watching his players and helping them with everything to make sure they improve, that's just dumb, right? Sigh.
On July 16 2011 01:58 Zeddicus wrote: This feels akward for me too. Feels like SK is paying to have their badge put on oGmMC and oGsNada. Why not sponsor oGs and have your badge on all of their players all of the time?
Cause they want this sponsorship to look like MC and NaDa are actually SK players.
If SK are paying the salaries at least partially then they are actually SK players. For all we know they may as well do so since they'll be wearing the SK tag even in Korea.
Really dissapointed in SK for doing this instead of providing the scene with another sponsored team.
MC already go to all the foreign tournaments he wants so being sponsored by SK won't change that for the viewers. And NaDa probably is the one who benefits the most, but i always thought he doesn't travel alot because of university, which by the way won't change if he has more sponsors to go overboard or not.
SK Gaming fighting!! I can remember watching them back in WoW and stuff during the BC days, even though that wasn't too too long ago it still seems like ages to me.
Can't wait to see these guys outside of Korea, although MC has already been dominating outside Korea I can't wait to see how Nada is going to do.
On July 16 2011 02:06 murtas wrote: Really dissapointed in SK for doing this instead of providing the scene with another sponsored team.
MC already go to all the foreign tournaments he wants so being sponsored by SK won't change that for the viewers. And NaDa probably is the one who benefits the most, but i always thought he doesn't travel alot because of university, which by the way won't change if he has more sponsors to go overboard or not.
im pretty sure the only reason nada is studying atm is to delay his military service
On July 16 2011 01:58 Zeddicus wrote: This feels akward for me too. Feels like SK is paying to have their badge put on oGmMC and oGsNada. Why not sponsor oGs and have your badge on all of their players all of the time?
Cause they want this sponsorship to look like MC and NaDa are actually SK players.
If SK are paying the salaries at least partially then they are actually SK players. For all we know they may as well do so since they'll be wearing the SK tag even in Korea.
That's where people are making a mistake. Paying a player does not mean he is on you're team. It means you're a sponsor, just like Stride, Dr Pepper and Sony Ericsson provide personal sponsorships.
I guess you're right in partially, but to what extent though? do you consider HuK a TLAF player or a Liquid player?
This is all confusing as hell because a professional team is acting like a sponsor would.
This is great. Now MC and Nada doesn't have to dip into their own savings to get to foreign tournaments. Gonne be nice to keep seeing them as regulars.
On July 16 2011 01:58 Zeddicus wrote: This feels akward for me too. Feels like SK is paying to have their badge put on oGmMC and oGsNada. Why not sponsor oGs and have your badge on all of their players all of the time?
Cause they want this sponsorship to look like MC and NaDa are actually SK players.
If SK are paying the salaries at least partially then they are actually SK players. For all we know they may as well do so since they'll be wearing the SK tag even in Korea.
That's where people are making a mistake. Paying a player does not mean he is on you're team. It means you're a sponsor, just like Stride, Dr Pepper and Sony Ericsson provide personal sponsorships.
I guess you're right in partially, but to what extent though? do you consider HuK a TLAF player or a Liquid player?
This is all confusing as hell because a professional team is acting like a sponsor would.
On July 16 2011 01:58 Zeddicus wrote: This feels akward for me too. Feels like SK is paying to have their badge put on oGmMC and oGsNada. Why not sponsor oGs and have your badge on all of their players all of the time?
Cause they want this sponsorship to look like MC and NaDa are actually SK players.
If SK are paying the salaries at least partially then they are actually SK players. For all we know they may as well do so since they'll be wearing the SK tag even in Korea.
That's where people are making a mistake. Paying a player does not mean he is on you're team. It means you're a sponsor, just like Stride, Dr Pepper and Sony Ericsson provide personal sponsorships.
I guess you're right in partially, but to what extent though? do you consider HuK a TLAF player or a Liquid player?
This is all confusing as hell because a professional team is acting like a sponsor would.
On July 16 2011 01:58 Zeddicus wrote: This feels akward for me too. Feels like SK is paying to have their badge put on oGmMC and oGsNada. Why not sponsor oGs and have your badge on all of their players all of the time?
Cause they want this sponsorship to look like MC and NaDa are actually SK players.
If SK are paying the salaries at least partially then they are actually SK players. For all we know they may as well do so since they'll be wearing the SK tag even in Korea.
That's where people are making a mistake. Paying a player does not mean he is on you're team. It means you're a sponsor, just like Stride, Dr Pepper and Sony Ericsson provide personal sponsorships.
I guess you're right in partially, but to what extent though? do you consider HuK a TLAF player or a Liquid player?
This is all confusing as hell because a professional team is acting like a sponsor would.
Why are people assuming they will be wearing an oGs shirt with just a patch of SK? If SK is sending them to foreign tournaments and funding all their costs I am sure they will be wearing an SK jersey.
On July 16 2011 02:22 BilltownRunner wrote: Why are people assuming they will be wearing an oGs shirt with just a patch of SK? If SK is sending them to foreign tournaments and funding all their costs I am sure they will be wearing an SK jersey.
It says on the front page that they will wear an SK patch in Korea, and foreign they will wear an SK jersey.
On July 16 2011 02:22 BilltownRunner wrote: Why are people assuming they will be wearing an oGs shirt with just a patch of SK? If SK is sending them to foreign tournaments and funding all their costs I am sure they will be wearing an SK jersey.
You are correct.
At non-Korean events they will wear SK Gaming uniforms.
Still SK.MC just does not sound good, SK.NaDa is bit better but still no oGs.
On July 16 2011 01:58 Zeddicus wrote: This feels akward for me too. Feels like SK is paying to have their badge put on oGmMC and oGsNada. Why not sponsor oGs and have your badge on all of their players all of the time?
Cause they want this sponsorship to look like MC and NaDa are actually SK players.
If SK are paying the salaries at least partially then they are actually SK players. For all we know they may as well do so since they'll be wearing the SK tag even in Korea.
That's where people are making a mistake. Paying a player does not mean he is on you're team. It means you're a sponsor, just like Stride, Dr Pepper and Sony Ericsson provide personal sponsorships.
I guess you're right in partially, but to what extent though? do you consider HuK a TLAF player or a Liquid player?
This is all confusing as hell because a professional team is acting like a sponsor would.
in your logic he is oGs
Yeah he is, is there any logic where he's not?
Then what's wrong with MC being SK?
Everything. I wouldn't be surprised if SK approached oGs to buyout MC. Getting the "Hell NO" they settled on an agreement where I hope SK gets bend over bigtime for destroying the best CS team.
**edit** Letting off some steam, I hope I don't get the ban for it.
How does that mean HuK is oGs? it's not called the oGs-Liquid house for no reason. Now if SK had any involvement in that, then MC beeing a SK player would make sense.
What i'm saying is that if you wan't to call MC a part of SK, you would also have to wonder if TLAF is really HuK's team instead of Liquid, cause TLAF are paying him after all.
On July 16 2011 01:58 Zeddicus wrote: This feels akward for me too. Feels like SK is paying to have their badge put on oGmMC and oGsNada. Why not sponsor oGs and have your badge on all of their players all of the time?
Cause they want this sponsorship to look like MC and NaDa are actually SK players.
If SK are paying the salaries at least partially then they are actually SK players. For all we know they may as well do so since they'll be wearing the SK tag even in Korea.
That's where people are making a mistake. Paying a player does not mean he is on you're team. It means you're a sponsor, just like Stride, Dr Pepper and Sony Ericsson provide personal sponsorships.
I guess you're right in partially, but to what extent though? do you consider HuK a TLAF player or a Liquid player?
This is all confusing as hell because a professional team is acting like a sponsor would.
Sorry but the only mistake here is you mixing up 'team' with 'organization'. They are two different things. SK is an organization, not a team. HuK and Jinro belong to Team Liquid the organization as well, TLAF is just the sponsor, just as SK has their sponsors.
On July 16 2011 02:22 BilltownRunner wrote: Why are people assuming they will be wearing an oGs shirt with just a patch of SK? If SK is sending them to foreign tournaments and funding all their costs I am sure they will be wearing an SK jersey.
Probably a good and well considered deal for all sides. At least from a financial point of view.
1. ogs is probably not willing to pay for all the traveling, especially since they are korean focussed, as well as their sponsorship contracts probably are 2. SK has access to the foreign community, and his based in Germany, but active in a lot more countries that are interesting for international sponsors. SC 2 is THE game right now, so presenting 2 of the greatest players is something sponsors will find attractive (sponsors which ogs would probably not have access to) 3. SK has a Korean working for them full time anyway, so interpreters and the (considerable) additional cost they might cause are gone 4. MC and NaDa seem to be interested in attending foreigner events, so the deal is definetely good for them
So you basically get the most money out of those two players. Saying this deal would be bad for SK (as many people here did) is something I would not support right away. SK is not stupid, they wouldn't have done this if it was bad for them.
The most important pieces of information about this deal are unavailable though:
a. Who pays the wages? ( I assume only ogs) b. Does SK get a share of every price money (outside of korea) the 2 players gather? And how big is that share? (I assume they'll get quite a percentage)
However, I would have preferred if SK just hired a "real" own squad. Well, maybe there are things to come, maybe not...
I think SK kind of got this wrong. Nobody will in their wildest dreams think that Nada & MC is representing them ? Nobody will think "SK.Nada SK.MC" , for this to happen they should have bought the players from oGs or recruited them from there depending on contract etc.
This seems like terrible leadership from SK. No idea who authorized this, but why have players nobody will associated with the brand, all because of the way the deal works ?
On July 16 2011 01:58 Zeddicus wrote: This feels akward for me too. Feels like SK is paying to have their badge put on oGmMC and oGsNada. Why not sponsor oGs and have your badge on all of their players all of the time?
Cause they want this sponsorship to look like MC and NaDa are actually SK players.
If SK are paying the salaries at least partially then they are actually SK players. For all we know they may as well do so since they'll be wearing the SK tag even in Korea.
That's where people are making a mistake. Paying a player does not mean he is on you're team. It means you're a sponsor, just like Stride, Dr Pepper and Sony Ericsson provide personal sponsorships.
I guess you're right in partially, but to what extent though? do you consider HuK a TLAF player or a Liquid player?
This is all confusing as hell because a professional team is acting like a sponsor would.
Sorry but the only mistake here is you mixing up 'team' with 'organization'. They are two different things. SK is an organization, not a team. HuK and Jinro belong to Team Liquid the organization as well, TLAF is just the sponsor, just as SK has their sponsors.
Well if that's how you want to put it the organization SK-Gaming is acting like a sponsor similar to TLAF would, thus making it nothing more than a sponsor, regardless of what SK-Gaming is.
They did join a new organization, but not a new team, they got a personal sponsorship.
Liquid`HuK getting sponsored by Stride does not make him a part of their team. oGsMC & oGsNaDa getting sponsored by SK-Gaming does not make them a part of their team.
The fault in this whole deal is SK-Gaming calling MC and NaDa part of their team, when all they really are doing is acting as personal sponsors.
On July 16 2011 02:38 Aurdon wrote: They are not SK members. They are OGS Members. They just have an SK sponsorship.
SK has now turned into Stride Gum. This is kind of disappointing.
You don't see Stride'Tyler wearing a Stride Gum uniform, this deal is completely different from any sponsorship deal.
It's not different. Nada and MC will train with OGS members and live with OGS members.
The only thing SK about Nada and MC is that they will take their money for travel costs and in return mention SK when their name gets called at foreigner events.
Sounds a lot like a sponsorship to me than joining a team.
It's not really important if the community considers them to be real SK players, I guess.
It's all about the money... What does SK care if the have 2 players with their and their sponsor's badges on them are the players that create the biggest amount of attention and "on air" time on broadcasts of international events... These are the figures SK can go to their sponsors with and show off. I don't think that SK sponsors will browse the community forums to see what the threads there say.
On July 16 2011 02:38 Aurdon wrote: They are not SK members. They are OGS Members. They just have an SK sponsorship.
SK has now turned into Stride Gum. This is kind of disappointing.
You don't see Stride'Tyler wearing a Stride Gum uniform, this deal is completely different from any sponsorship deal.
That's why this deal sucks. They do what a sponsor would do. (donate money) And they get credit for what a team does. (managing players)
I'm pretty sure oGs probably don't give a rats ass if MC and NaDa go under the SK-tag outside of Korea, since their sponsors are Korean based and only cares about the Korean market. (except SK, now)
But SK are somehow getting credit for beeing a team?
On July 16 2011 02:38 Aurdon wrote: They are not SK members. They are OGS Members. They just have an SK sponsorship.
SK has now turned into Stride Gum. This is kind of disappointing.
You don't see Stride'Tyler wearing a Stride Gum uniform, this deal is completely different from any sponsorship deal.
It's not different. Nada and MC will train with OGS members and live with OGS members.
The only thing SK about Nada and MC is that they will take their money for travel costs and in return mention SK when their name gets called at foreigner events.
Sounds a lot like a sponsorship to me than joining a team.
To me having to wear another team's uniform and tag in return for travel costs is not standard for sponsorships. Perhaps you can remind me where this has happened before.
On July 16 2011 02:48 morbvs wrote: It's not really important if the community considers them to be real SK players, I guess.
It's all about the money... What does SK care if the have 2 players with their and their sponsor's badges on them are the players that create the biggest amount of attention and "on air" time on broadcasts of international events... These are the figures SK can go to their sponsors with and show off. I don't think that SK sponsors will browse the community forums to see what the threads there say.
Sponsoring any kind of organization without knowing their background would be nothing short of stupid.
I think its more of a sponsorship than an actual team recruit. II like to think of it more as a partnership where MC and NaDa are just partnering with SK.Gaming to be funded to go to tourneys outside of Korea. That is all.
On July 16 2011 02:38 Aurdon wrote: They are not SK members. They are OGS Members. They just have an SK sponsorship.
SK has now turned into Stride Gum. This is kind of disappointing.
You don't see Stride'Tyler wearing a Stride Gum uniform, this deal is completely different from any sponsorship deal.
That's why this deal sucks. They do what a sponsor would do. (donate money) And they get credit for what a team does. (managing players)
I'm pretty sure oGs probably don't give a rats ass if MC and NaDa go under the SK-tag outside of Korea, since their sponsors are Korean based and only cares about the Korean market. (except SK, now)
But SK are somehow getting credit for beeing a team?
Yep, agreed completely. Having a player represent two different teams is unheard of and will not benefit the scene.
Hope NaDa improves. Is he really a threat at major international tournaments in his current state? MC always is but NaDa I'm not so sure. However it's NaDa so that name alone may be enough to lure big money sponsors to slap logos on his jersey.
I love MC, NaDa, oGs, and SK, but I think this is a very foolish move on the part of SK. Not only are they doing less to promote the growth in the foreign scene but they are essentially picking up ringers rather than teammates. MC and NaDa aren't leaving oGs to play for SK, they are simply playing for them when it suits them.
Having a player be on two different teams defeats the whole purpose of having a team. If i were running the EGMC or another team based tournament I wouldn't let them play any players that were on multiple teams as it's no different than having paid ringers play for you.
There's nothing to stop a team from handing out a little monetary incentive to some heavy hitters like Bomber, Puma, or DRG to play key matches that would lets say get them into the finals for EGMC.
I don't like it at all... if they left oGs and joined SK I could understand that (not that it would ever happen) but pulling ringers is making sc2 feel like HON.
On July 16 2011 02:52 tdt wrote: Hope NaDa improves. Is he really a threat at major international tournaments in his current state? MC always is but NaDa I'm not so sure. However it's NaDa so that name alone may be enough to lure big money sponsors to slap logos on his jersey.
Making it to the ro16 in code S is still pretty decent although its his worst performance in the GSL so far...by itself that says a lot. He's still better than any foreigner the only people he's lost to are top code S Koreans.
Interesting - would have been more interesting if they signed players of their own of their own, but the good news is we'll see a lot more of NaDa (MC was already traveling everywhere it seemed) in foreign events
On July 16 2011 02:56 iCCup.Diamond wrote: I'm in the process of going through all 27 pages of this, but to me from what I understand isn't SK actually just sponsoring those 2 players?
In exchange for MC and NaDa using an SK jersey and name tag when playing abroad.
On July 15 2011 21:31 w33dOr wrote: ... So a big part of the euro / US audience will not think about ogs when seeing these sk guys play.
You might be wrong. Most of the audience will recognize MC and NaDa as oGs players and the new audience will get this background information too very fast, as they surf through the forums.
Who cares? SK wants cash flow and gets that cash via sponsors who are probably more than willing to shell it out for a future winning team, SK. Just keeping it real.
On July 16 2011 02:38 Aurdon wrote: They are not SK members. They are OGS Members. They just have an SK sponsorship.
SK has now turned into Stride Gum. This is kind of disappointing.
You don't see Stride'Tyler wearing a Stride Gum uniform, this deal is completely different from any sponsorship deal.
It's not different. Nada and MC will train with OGS members and live with OGS members.
The only thing SK about Nada and MC is that they will take their money for travel costs and in return mention SK when their name gets called at foreigner events.
Sounds a lot like a sponsorship to me than joining a team.
To me having to wear another team's uniform and tag in return for travel costs is not standard for sponsorships. Perhaps you can remind me where this has happened before.
On July 16 2011 02:38 Aurdon wrote: They are not SK members. They are OGS Members. They just have an SK sponsorship.
SK has now turned into Stride Gum. This is kind of disappointing.
You don't see Stride'Tyler wearing a Stride Gum uniform, this deal is completely different from any sponsorship deal.
It's not different. Nada and MC will train with OGS members and live with OGS members.
The only thing SK about Nada and MC is that they will take their money for travel costs and in return mention SK when their name gets called at foreigner events.
Sounds a lot like a sponsorship to me than joining a team.
To me having to wear another team's uniform and tag in return for travel costs is not standard for sponsorships. Perhaps you can remind me where this has happened before.
TLAF'LIQUID'
That TLAF part is a sponsors name.
So what does SK'OGS'MC sound like?
lol imagine someone whos never heard of mc before...just a random mix of letters xd
On July 16 2011 02:38 Aurdon wrote: They are not SK members. They are OGS Members. They just have an SK sponsorship.
SK has now turned into Stride Gum. This is kind of disappointing.
You don't see Stride'Tyler wearing a Stride Gum uniform, this deal is completely different from any sponsorship deal.
It's not different. Nada and MC will train with OGS members and live with OGS members.
The only thing SK about Nada and MC is that they will take their money for travel costs and in return mention SK when their name gets called at foreigner events.
Sounds a lot like a sponsorship to me than joining a team.
To me having to wear another team's uniform and tag in return for travel costs is not standard for sponsorships. Perhaps you can remind me where this has happened before.
On July 16 2011 01:27 stratmatt wrote: The problem with cs is that it was dieing out before the business of esports was well defined enough to make anything worthwhile. With sc2 we have a brand new game with the enthusiasm and infrastructure needed in place to take esports to a whole new level globally. SK is one of the best esports orgs out there despite what some people here say, and this is the best possible move they could have made. SK's reputation combined with Nada and Mc's is a great thing for sc2 any way you slice it. Plus its nice to see the very best cs team on the same team as the best sc2 players SK doesnt **** around.
Isn't fucking around what they are doing though? They're dipping a toe, and not putting the whole foot down. It seems to me like they're afraid of taking the big step of making a team of their own, after the failure of their "rookie" team.
How is ponying up the cash to support the best players in the world and give them what they want 'dipping their toe in'? They dont want to pay for subpar players and HOPE things work out in a few years. They want to WIN, and NOW. Like I said, if OGS were up to sending these guys the world over to compete, SK wouldnt have anything to offer them, but in this case they do.
That is exactly the problem.
An important part of business presentation is the stuff that is left out of any announcement or deal. Let's look at it this way.
What did SK Gaming announce? - A partnership with oGs that means MC and Nada will represent SK in foreign and Korean events (to different levels). - ...
No announcement to build some type of infrastructure to create a SC2 team. No announcement of intentions to create another SC2 team in general. No announcement to make some kind of contribution towards cultivating the skill of potential SC2 pros. No announcement to do anything towards maintaining Nada/MC's current skills. Now without the writing we don't know the exact terms or limitations, but it sounds like SK will have no hand in the day-to-day activities of these players. They won't provide practice partners or a coach/overseer to monitor their progress, etc.
Obviously they want what you said they want: brand name success NOW instead of later. Think about how many businesses succeed without long-term investment or planning. If something happens to stunt their success, perhaps a car accident or a wrist injury, what depth does SK's SC2 division have to compensate for this?
So it's no wonder that people are automatically assuming SK is buying players to make up for their failures to establish a solid team. Because it doesn't sound like SK intends on building a team anytime soon.
On July 16 2011 02:38 Aurdon wrote: They are not SK members. They are OGS Members. They just have an SK sponsorship.
SK has now turned into Stride Gum. This is kind of disappointing.
You don't see Stride'Tyler wearing a Stride Gum uniform, this deal is completely different from any sponsorship deal.
It's not different. Nada and MC will train with OGS members and live with OGS members.
The only thing SK about Nada and MC is that they will take their money for travel costs and in return mention SK when their name gets called at foreigner events.
Sounds a lot like a sponsorship to me than joining a team.
To me having to wear another team's uniform and tag in return for travel costs is not standard for sponsorships. Perhaps you can remind me where this has happened before.
TLAF'LIQUID'
That TLAF part is a sponsors name.
So what does SK'OGS'MC sound like?
You're ignoring the uniform part.
You're ignoring the part where OGS and Nada don't train, live, or have anything to do with SK other than take their money to fly places.
On July 16 2011 02:52 tdt wrote: Hope NaDa improves. Is he really a threat at major international tournaments in his current state? MC always is but NaDa I'm not so sure. However it's NaDa so that name alone may be enough to lure big money sponsors to slap logos on his jersey.
Making it to the ro16 in code S is still pretty decent although its his worst performance in the GSL so far...by itself that says a lot. He's still better than any foreigner the only people he's lost to are top code S Koreans.
On July 16 2011 02:38 Aurdon wrote: They are not SK members. They are OGS Members. They just have an SK sponsorship.
SK has now turned into Stride Gum. This is kind of disappointing.
You don't see Stride'Tyler wearing a Stride Gum uniform, this deal is completely different from any sponsorship deal.
It's not different. Nada and MC will train with OGS members and live with OGS members.
The only thing SK about Nada and MC is that they will take their money for travel costs and in return mention SK when their name gets called at foreigner events.
Sounds a lot like a sponsorship to me than joining a team.
To me having to wear another team's uniform and tag in return for travel costs is not standard for sponsorships. Perhaps you can remind me where this has happened before.
TLAF'LIQUID'
That TLAF part is a sponsors name.
So what does SK'OGS'MC sound like?
You're ignoring the uniform part.
You're ignoring the part where OGS and Nada don't train, live, or have anything to do with SK other than take their money to fly places.
That has nothing to do with what I was saying. Read my post again:
To me having to wear another team's uniform and tag in return for travel costs is not standard for sponsorships. Perhaps you can remind me where this has happened before.
Last I checked, sc2 is a 1v1 game, not a team game. Players play matches alone. Not sue whye veryone is up in arms over this 'team' crap. Sure its nice to have a 'team' to practice with, but what does that mean anyways when they dont even compete together(cept for gstl)?
Yeah this is really bizarre. SK had a team for a while, but never seemed to have much interest in it, and really never seemed to show any initiative in picking up other players beyond Inuh, Jimpo, and Madfrog. Then they drop their team and...
... become this weird Frankenstein of a team to two of the highest profile players in the scene? How does this make any sense? Does SK actually believe that this is a legitimate team format? Does SK actually believe that people will connect MC and NaDa to their organization? I really can't understand what SK, after failing to build a team the normal way, hopes to accomplish with this stunt.
On July 16 2011 02:38 Aurdon wrote: They are not SK members. They are OGS Members. They just have an SK sponsorship.
SK has now turned into Stride Gum. This is kind of disappointing.
You don't see Stride'Tyler wearing a Stride Gum uniform, this deal is completely different from any sponsorship deal.
That's why this deal sucks. They do what a sponsor would do. (donate money) And they get credit for what a team does. (managing players)
I'm pretty sure oGs probably don't give a rats ass if MC and NaDa go under the SK-tag outside of Korea, since their sponsors are Korean based and only cares about the Korean market. (except SK, now)
But SK are somehow getting credit for beeing a team?
Yep, agreed completely. Having a player represent two different teams is unheard of and will not benefit the scene.
You're right, the deal that means having Nada at foreign events will only hurt ESPORTS.
On July 16 2011 03:09 stratmatt wrote: Last I checked, sc2 is a 1v1 game, not a team game. Players play matches alone. Not sue whye veryone is up in arms over this 'team' crap. Sure its nice to have a 'team' to practice with, but what does that mean anyways when they dont even compete together(cept for gstl)?
Because practice with teammates is essential for the success of Korean progamers, and that is part of why they are better than foreign progamers?
If MC and Nada were actually bought by SK and they were simply left to their own devices, their skill level would drop guaranteed.
I swear its so ridiculous watching so many people complain about 'teams'. A 'team' game is cs 1.6, a 'team' game is halo. Sc2 is not a team game, players just share sponsorships basically. They can practice with whoever they want.
On July 16 2011 02:38 Aurdon wrote: They are not SK members. They are OGS Members. They just have an SK sponsorship.
SK has now turned into Stride Gum. This is kind of disappointing.
You don't see Stride'Tyler wearing a Stride Gum uniform, this deal is completely different from any sponsorship deal.
It's not different. Nada and MC will train with OGS members and live with OGS members.
The only thing SK about Nada and MC is that they will take their money for travel costs and in return mention SK when their name gets called at foreigner events.
Sounds a lot like a sponsorship to me than joining a team.
To me having to wear another team's uniform and tag in return for travel costs is not standard for sponsorships. Perhaps you can remind me where this has happened before.
TLAF'LIQUID'
That TLAF part is a sponsors name.
So what does SK'OGS'MC sound like?
You're ignoring the uniform part.
You're ignoring the part where OGS and Nada don't train, live, or have anything to do with SK other than take their money to fly places.
That has nothing to do with what I was saying. Read my post again:
To me having to wear another team's uniform and tag in return for travel costs is not standard for sponsorships. Perhaps you can remind me where this has happened before.
I have read your posts. We'll have to wait and see what the 'SK SC2 Team Jersey' will look like.
Maybe they'll just put their names in big letters on the front as well as OGS name on the front.
It might look something like this:
See that put both Liquid and TLAF prominently on the front of the shirt. Oh wait, TLAF is just a sponsor. Kind of like how SK is just a sponsor.
On July 16 2011 03:12 stratmatt wrote: But they dont compete as a team. Its not a team game.
No, it's a 1v1. But playing as a team makes the individual players better than they would be if they played separately. That's the point of the Korean model. That's why they're better than us, and if you remove them from that they will start to become worse.
Sk won't be doing that. But are not contributing to the players' success, only opening opportunities to play at more foreign events. And like MC said, playing at these events comes at the cost of degrading their skill (lack of practice).
On July 16 2011 03:09 tree.hugger wrote: Yeah this is really bizarre. SK had a team for a while, but never seemed to have much interest in it, and really never seemed to show any initiative in picking up other players beyond Inuh, Jimpo, and Madfrog. Then they drop their team and...
... become this weird Frankenstein of a team to two of the highest profile players in the scene? How does this make any sense? Does SK actually believe that this is a legitimate team format? Does SK actually believe that people will connect MC and NaDa to their organization? I really can't understand what SK, after failing to build a team the normal way, hopes to accomplish with this stunt.
How do you quantify recognition gained? You can't. SK knows that but they have something to show to the sponsors who are even less qualified to judge the value of this "aquisition".
On July 16 2011 02:38 Aurdon wrote: They are not SK members. They are OGS Members. They just have an SK sponsorship.
SK has now turned into Stride Gum. This is kind of disappointing.
You don't see Stride'Tyler wearing a Stride Gum uniform, this deal is completely different from any sponsorship deal.
It's not different. Nada and MC will train with OGS members and live with OGS members.
The only thing SK about Nada and MC is that they will take their money for travel costs and in return mention SK when their name gets called at foreigner events.
Sounds a lot like a sponsorship to me than joining a team.
To me having to wear another team's uniform and tag in return for travel costs is not standard for sponsorships. Perhaps you can remind me where this has happened before.
TLAF'LIQUID'
That TLAF part is a sponsors name.
So what does SK'OGS'MC sound like?
You're ignoring the uniform part.
You're ignoring the part where OGS and Nada don't train, live, or have anything to do with SK other than take their money to fly places.
That has nothing to do with what I was saying. Read my post again:
To me having to wear another team's uniform and tag in return for travel costs is not standard for sponsorships. Perhaps you can remind me where this has happened before.
I have read your posts. We'll have to wait and see what the 'SK SC2 Team Jersey' will look like.
Maybe they'll just put their names in big letters on the front as well as OGS name on the front.
It might look something like this:
See that put both Liquid and TLAF prominently on the front of the shirt. Oh wait, TLAF is just a sponsor. Kind of like how SK is just a sponsor.
I doubt it(TeamLiquid is more prominent than TLAF on that shirt btw).
I'm anticipating the standard SK uniform with oGs written somewhere inconspicuous.
On July 16 2011 03:12 stratmatt wrote: But they dont compete as a team. Its not a team game.
No, it's a 1v1. But playing as a team makes the individual players better than they would be if they played separately. That's the point of the Korean model. That's why they're better than us, and if you remove them from that they will start to become worse.
You are right, its always a great idea to practice with world-class players, but MC and NADA want to go global, something their 'team' does not allow them to do. So in steps SK, a world-reknowned gaming ORG, and offers to send them to every foreign tournament possible. They now represent SK as well. Not hard to understand. You represent your sponsors, PERIOD. If you read the article, they are both still on TEAM OGS but are now supported by SK Gaming as well. No need to cry about it. I cant believe people would see this as bad.
On July 16 2011 03:09 tree.hugger wrote: Yeah this is really bizarre. SK had a team for a while, but never seemed to have much interest in it, and really never seemed to show any initiative in picking up other players beyond Inuh, Jimpo, and Madfrog. Then they drop their team and...
... become this weird Frankenstein of a team to two of the highest profile players in the scene? How does this make any sense? Does SK actually believe that this is a legitimate team format? Does SK actually believe that people will connect MC and NaDa to their organization? I really can't understand what SK, after failing to build a team the normal way, hopes to accomplish with this stunt.
I agree with this^^. They are essentially paying 2 of the better players to wear their uniforms while out of Korea. It doesn't make any sense... SK hasn't done much at all with Sc2 and their SC:bw attempts were a complete joke.
On July 16 2011 03:23 iYiYi wrote: Sk went from being nonexsistence in the StarCraft scene to being huge. SK.Nada sickkk
How is that huge though? They were 'existent' when they had a team and their scbw attempts. They are just giving MC and Nada some money to wear a shirt, it's not a team or anything.
On July 16 2011 03:23 iYiYi wrote: Sk went from being nonexsistence in the StarCraft scene to being huge. SK.Nada sickkk
How is that huge though? They were 'existent' when they had a team and their scbw attempts. They are just giving MC and Nada some money to wear a shirt, it's not a team or anything.
This seems like an odd proposal, which leads me to wonder why oGs would accept it. I guess that their sponsors wouldn't care too much then, in which case, win-win for both SK and the players.
Haven't heard from SK for a while. Will be interesting to find out if they want to build a team like this, stop at these two players, or eventually transition into having a full team like oGs etc...
On July 16 2011 03:23 iYiYi wrote: Sk went from being nonexsistence in the StarCraft scene to being huge. SK.Nada sickkk
How is that huge though? They were 'existent' when they had a team and their scbw attempts. They are just giving MC and Nada some money to wear a shirt, it's not a team or anything.
On July 16 2011 03:12 stratmatt wrote: But they dont compete as a team. Its not a team game.
No, it's a 1v1. But playing as a team makes the individual players better than they would be if they played separately. That's the point of the Korean model. That's why they're better than us, and if you remove them from that they will start to become worse.
You are right, its always a great idea to practice with world-class players, but MC and NADA want to go global, something their 'team' does not allow them to do. So in steps SK, a world-reknowned gaming ORG, and offers to send them to every foreign tournament possible. They now represent SK as well. Not hard to understand. You represent your sponsors, PERIOD. If you read the article, they are both still on TEAM OGS but are now supported by SK Gaming as well. No need to cry about it. I cant believe people would see this as bad.
Stop capitalizing words for no reason. It's annoying.
MC and Nada will still practice with their team unless SK wishes to buy them entirely. I'm trying to make you understand the value of the Korean model.
Did you not read my original post? It's good in the short run and bad in the long run for the following two reasons.
1. SK cannot take credit for their success in any form since they do not contribute to it besides offering opportunities to participate in foreign tournaments. Without the image of SK as a direct contributor to the fortunes of its players, it will have no brand power to attract players with potential like Slayers or Incredible Miracle. SK will only be able to get players who are already good, and people will not attribute their success to SK but to the players. 2. Without declaring any long-term plans to be successful in the SC2 scene and combined with their past history in SC2, it paints SK as both opportunistic and incompetent. It makes them seem as if they are committed to this particular strategy even if they do have long-term plans.
On July 15 2011 22:58 leBIGcrab wrote: SK is a really big and respected team, so it's good for them to have players like MC and NaDa to represent them on foreign events, and good for SC2 to have such a team in the global competition.
But to me, it looks more like some try to make their team shine again on the RTS scene. MC and NaDa will still be oGs members before SK members, and for people who follows GSL, like most of TL does, their real team will be oGs. I mean, they live and practice there...
I think there's something behind this, and imagine if oGs disbands, SK will instantly be one of the best teams worldwide if they keep MC/NaDa or other oGs members... But at the time it's just one powerful airplane/logistic support.
Also i would like to know what's up with Liquid partnership in this, some official announcement would be nice.
SK's move is not something Liquid would have done so there isn't much to discuss.
oGs has a partnership going on with TL and SK, and they are completely different from each other. Two companies having a partnership with another company isn't anything strange. TL's partnership with oGs exists in the form it has always existed in todays announcement changes nothing about it.
Wow so basically oGs is awesome...partnership with SK and TL. Good thing oGs is my favorite korean team. Can't wait to see NaDa participate in foreign events!
On July 16 2011 03:12 stratmatt wrote: But they dont compete as a team. Its not a team game.
No, it's a 1v1. But playing as a team makes the individual players better than they would be if they played separately. That's the point of the Korean model. That's why they're better than us, and if you remove them from that they will start to become worse.
You are right, its always a great idea to practice with world-class players, but MC and NADA want to go global, something their 'team' does not allow them to do. So in steps SK, a world-reknowned gaming ORG, and offers to send them to every foreign tournament possible. They now represent SK as well. Not hard to understand. You represent your sponsors, PERIOD. If you read the article, they are both still on TEAM OGS but are now supported by SK Gaming as well. No need to cry about it. I cant believe people would see this as bad.
Only smart person on this forum, this community looks worse than HoN/DotA community ffs.
to the rest.
If SK was such a shitty organization why the hell do they have all these good players? specially their CS crew with Get_right and f0rest who should know about the HeatoN, Potti not being paid shenanigans, they wouldn't sign if they didn't think SK was legit.
We have this racing gamer posting here who plays for SK saying they've followed through on his contract for a very long time.
Most people probably already know they can't shit on MC and NaDa cause that would just be terrible for SK so why are you even complaining about something that happened 8 years ago..
I guess haters gonna hate, but before you hate you should really wait and see first what comes of this right now you don't know much.
Personally I think this is a great deal from the sounds of it and also SK.NaDa just looks so sexy as a nick.
On July 16 2011 00:05 adeptz wrote: Just another desperate move to keep themselves "in the game" when they've totally missed the boat on sc2. I seriously wonder what goes on in their management meetings, or how they actually let the SK-gaming brand become like this. Anyone following counter-strike eons ago would remember SK to be an esports powerhouse then - they had the major sponsors, the branding, the content...now look at them.
I don't know, maybe it all went to shit when bds left the helm.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Welcome to esports. In REAL sports, teams buy off players ALL THE TIME to compete. It goes with the business of running a succesful esports team. People annoyed by this are like cavaliers fans when Lebron left. These players play for themselves more than the team they play for. Nada and MC saw this as a chance to have a more global presence while at the same time representing one of the MOST FAMOUS esports teams of ALL TIME. This is huge news for both the players and the teams and beneficial to both. Heaton nd Potti(god bless their souls) had a huge falling out with SK and Im sure if anything were legally wrong with the situation they would have had a leg to stand on in court. Chances are that they broke their contracts in a way that left them in a tough spot. If you followed cs at all, you would know they never agreed with managmentt toward the end of their tenure due to roster changes and other things, and left to form their own team again. Either way, that doesnt negate the success SK has had over the years in terms of both management AND players.
Could you please explain to me why this is beneficial for SK? I'm not trying to be hostile or anything. But i'm just seeing this having a negative impact on SK as a brand. They may attract new and uneducated fans, but as has been said before, they'll learn that MC and NaDa actually are not a product of SK, but of oGs, and thus noone will really care that they're representing SK, when oGs is the real reason behind their success. And sponsors will know this aswell, no doubt.
The organization will in my opinion look like a bunch of slackers looking for a quick buck, even though that's not the case.
Could you please explain to me why having players on a team is beneficial for any team?
Teams make money off exposure and advertising. If you read the comments, half the community here has no idea who SK is as an organization. Now they will have top contenders in every foreigner tournament wearing their (and their sponsors) logo. This is basically what every team dreams of. They also developed links to Korea, which no other team has done (aside from TL, because they had ties to Spunky). Do you guys know how many players want the chance to come from Korea to play in foreigner tournaments? Now they can have them on contract. If they sign a few more Koreans by being able to just buy their plane tickets, you will see SK have 3 in the top 5 of every tournament without having to do a single thing.
I wouldn't be surprised if they had this planned from this start. Why bother growing a team when this is a risk-free venture for all the rewards of having your own team?!?!? There is a reason the Yankees are the Yankees.
Okay, replace "made" with "contributed", and you get my point. SK had absolutely nothing to with the success of these players, and they have no right to display them as their players, unless they buy them from oGs.
The only thing SK will do, according to the information at hand, is send them to events outside of Korea, do you think that that's enough to call them SK players? I know i certainly don't.
They're taking another teams work and claiming it their own, more or less. And most intelligent people will see through this, that's why i think it's not gonna give them any good publicity.
I do on the other hand like that we will get to see NaDa and MC in a huge amount of foreign tournaments though. So from that perspective it's great!
It doesn't matter. MC and Nada will be on a podium in a foreign country with a SK shirt and a big fat SteelSeries logo while 80k+ look on and many more watch in vods.
This type of advertising comes at the price of a plane ticket. Sure he will always be oGs MC, but what comes before his name is irrelevant. SK can go to their sponsors and say "Hey look, we have a guy wearing our shirt, showing your logo, and hes winning everything!!!!!!! Give us more money!".
It doesn't matter that we all know that his real team is oGs. SK itself is now a sponsor, kinda like Razer sponsoring Boxer, or Stride sponsoring Tyler. He gets plane tickets to tournaments, gets to keep the money (or some/most of it), and all he has to do is wear a different shirt (note oGs doesn't even have any sponsors that they would want to direct towards the foreigner world). On the other hand, SK goes from being nothing in the SC2 scene, to having a 20+ page thread, and their names and sponsors are mentioned at every foreign tournament MC and Nada are in (which is what teams want of their players anyway).
I think you are missing the point. This is a business decision, not an ethical one. Yes he is on oGs, but it doesn't matter to SK or hurt them in any way.
Just a plane ticket? How do you know the intricacies of the deal? NaDa is probably a millionaire and MC is well on his way @200K in 8 months you think they would sign on for a chump change plane ticket?
Anyway I agree with your other thoughts, good business.
On July 16 2011 03:45 BryanSC wrote: Wow MC AND Nada? All they need is a Zerg, too bad there are no good zergs in oGs...
Yea Zenio is terrible, Cezzane is awful, and even their coach theWind is trash...
Oh wait..... Cezzane is their captain and one of the only people to take a game off Nestea in a televised ZvZ (a feat only Fruitdealer and Dimaga can say that as well)
TheWind, despite being a coach, still kept his code S status for a few seasons and made it out of the group stage at least once.
On July 15 2011 22:48 LastDance wrote: lol SK added Nada and MC to their team roster: http://www.sk-gaming.com/players/ in the profiles they made it says "former teams oGs"
Seriously SK, nobody considers these players yours. you've just become their airfare bitch
Lol, basically this.
MC and NaDa are like "We wanna make more money by taking foreigner's cash! Wanna pay our airfare so we give you a shoutout when we win?"
SK: "ok, here take our money."
Where does it say former team oGs? Or did they just delete it? Wouldnt surprise me at all though, lol
If you click the link to the players name, on the right
for example oGsMC (I will never ever ever ever call him SK)
FORMER TEAMS SK Gaming Old Generations MBCGame HERO
It says SK too so obviously it's just wrong, who careS?
indeed -_- so much hate here... doesn't surprise me though, many people tend to like their rival fnatic better with which SK has had much shittalk and confrontations lately.
i always felt like they treated their WC3 players well. be it Miou, Insomnia, Madfrog or any of the koreans, i don't remember them talking shit about SK. only exception here was XlorD, but that didn't surprise me.
treated them well? Isn't sk much of the reason madfrog stopped with progaming?
On July 16 2011 01:27 stratmatt wrote: The problem with cs is that it was dieing out before the business of esports was well defined enough to make anything worthwhile. With sc2 we have a brand new game with the enthusiasm and infrastructure needed in place to take esports to a whole new level globally. SK is one of the best esports orgs out there despite what some people here say, and this is the best possible move they could have made. SK's reputation combined with Nada and Mc's is a great thing for sc2 any way you slice it. Plus its nice to see the very best cs team on the same team as the best sc2 players SK doesnt **** around.
Isn't fucking around what they are doing though? They're dipping a toe, and not putting the whole foot down. It seems to me like they're afraid of taking the big step of making a team of their own, after the failure of their "rookie" team.
How is ponying up the cash to support the best players in the world and give them what they want 'dipping their toe in'? They dont want to pay for subpar players and HOPE things work out in a few years. They want to WIN, and NOW. Like I said, if OGS were up to sending these guys the world over to compete, SK wouldnt have anything to offer them, but in this case they do.
That is exactly the problem.
An important part of business presentation is the stuff that is left out of any announcement or deal. Let's look at it this way.
What did SK Gaming announce? - A partnership with oGs that means MC and Nada will represent SK in foreign and Korean events (to different levels). - ...
No announcement to build some type of infrastructure to create a SC2 team. No announcement of intentions to create another SC2 team in general. No announcement to make some kind of contribution towards cultivating the skill of potential SC2 pros. No announcement to do anything towards maintaining Nada/MC's current skills. Now without the writing we don't know the exact terms or limitations, but it sounds like SK will have no hand in the day-to-day activities of these players. They won't provide practice partners or a coach/overseer to monitor their progress, etc.
Obviously they want what you said they want: brand name success NOW instead of later. Think about how many businesses succeed without long-term investment or planning. If something happens to stunt their success, perhaps a car accident or a wrist injury, what depth does SK's SC2 division have to compensate for this?
So it's no wonder that people are automatically assuming SK is buying players to make up for their failures to establish a solid team. Because it doesn't sound like SK intends on building a team anytime soon.
I wonder just how much oGs as an organization stands to gain from this, considering they risk a decline of skill(due to travel) of their best players, and are responsible for training them/housing them most of the time.
I hope they at least get a significant portion of the sponsorship money SK manages to get.
I think the problem here is one of wording.... SK isn't just sponsoring according to their posting, they say they have 'acquired' MC and NaDa, which sounds as if they purchased them like when Light was purchased from MBC to Woonjin Stars in BW.
It sounds as if they are a forming a team but they really aren't, they are just buying two high level Korean players for a tidy amount, I'm sure, without having to nurture or create new players in Europe, which is not immoral but definitely not something a team dedicated to 'grow' foreigner competition aspires to do.
I wonder what this says about the Korean sc2 esports scene when an international ORG like SK can come in and 'pickup' 2 of the best players including a top 3 player in the world.....
MC has a lot of stamina. He plays in Korea, then he travels all over the world to play in other tournaments, goes back to Korea, etc. He's also seems quite comfortable competing in other places. I say he deserves the sponsorship.
On July 16 2011 03:45 BryanSC wrote: Wow MC AND Nada? All they need is a Zerg, too bad there are no good zergs in oGs...
Yea Zenio is terrible, Cezzane is awful, and even their coach theWind is trash...
Oh wait..... Cezzane is their captain and one of the only people to take a game off Nestea in a televised ZvZ (a feat only Fruitdealer and Dimaga can say that as well)
TheWind, despite being a coach, still kept his code S status for a few seasons and made it out of the group stage at least once.
Zenio needs no introduction
I can't remember the last time I saw Cezanne play.
TheWind would be a poor choice, he's not even close to being a contender for a GSL championship.
Zenio, yeah he's a perennial "Stay in Code S because he's in third place/go to up and down matches" type of player I guess.
My point is oGs doesn't have a Zerg player on the level of MC or Nada.
On July 16 2011 04:25 SiNoCiDe wrote: A shame that MC and Nada agreed to represent a trashy sponsor such as SK. They lost my respect after what they did to Madfrog.
On July 16 2011 03:45 BryanSC wrote: Wow MC AND Nada? All they need is a Zerg, too bad there are no good zergs in oGs...
Yea Zenio is terrible, Cezzane is awful, and even their coach theWind is trash...
Oh wait..... Cezzane is their captain and one of the only people to take a game off Nestea in a televised ZvZ (a feat only Fruitdealer and Dimaga can say that as well)
TheWind, despite being a coach, still kept his code S status for a few seasons and made it out of the group stage at least once.
Zenio needs no introduction
I can't remember the last time I saw Cezanne play.
TheWind would be a poor choice, he's not even close to being a contender for a GSL championship.
Zenio, yeah he's a perennial "Stay in Code S because he's in third place/go to up and down matches" type of player I guess.
My point is oGs doesn't have a Zerg player on the level of MC or Nada.
Zenio's been the constant anti-IdrA, has shown amazing games as of recent, and is one of the better infestor users. Perhaps he isn't as strong as MC is, but neither is Nada. And Nada isn't that much more amazing that Zenio is yet.
On July 16 2011 04:25 SiNoCiDe wrote: A shame that MC and Nada agreed to represent a trashy sponsor such as SK. They lost my respect after what they did to Madfrog.
What exactly did they do to madfrog?
they didn't want to fulfill his needs of a €2k/month salary when all other euro progamers made around €500 and kicked him out. poor madfrog he was so good
On July 15 2011 22:48 LastDance wrote: lol SK added Nada and MC to their team roster: http://www.sk-gaming.com/players/ in the profiles they made it says "former teams oGs"
Seriously SK, nobody considers these players yours. you've just become their airfare bitch
Lol, basically this.
MC and NaDa are like "We wanna make more money by taking foreigner's cash! Wanna pay our airfare so we give you a shoutout when we win?"
SK: "ok, here take our money."
Where does it say former team oGs? Or did they just delete it? Wouldnt surprise me at all though, lol
If you click the link to the players name, on the right
for example oGsMC (I will never ever ever ever call him SK)
FORMER TEAMS SK Gaming Old Generations MBCGame HERO
It says SK too so obviously it's just wrong, who careS?
indeed -_- so much hate here... doesn't surprise me though, many people tend to like their rival fnatic better with which SK has had much shittalk and confrontations lately.
i always felt like they treated their WC3 players well. be it Miou, Insomnia, Madfrog or any of the koreans, i don't remember them talking shit about SK. only exception here was XlorD, but that didn't surprise me.
treated them well? Isn't sk much of the reason madfrog stopped with progaming?
No he quit for irl work, he thought he woulndt make it in sc2
On July 16 2011 04:25 SiNoCiDe wrote: A shame that MC and Nada agreed to represent a trashy sponsor such as SK. They lost my respect after what they did to Madfrog.
What exactly did they do to madfrog?
they didn't want to fulfill his needs of a €2k/month salary when all other euro progamers made around €500 and kicked him out. poor madfrog he was so good
That guy made it sound like they killed his dog or something..."I'll never forgive them for what they did...on that fateful night...VENGEANCE...WILL...BE...MINE!"
On July 16 2011 04:25 SiNoCiDe wrote: A shame that MC and Nada agreed to represent a trashy sponsor such as SK. They lost my respect after what they did to Madfrog.
"Fredrik needs more budget than we are willing to pay for one StarCraft 2 player at the moment," explained Muller. "He is a great guy and player and we had a good time to check where he and SK are in terms of StarCraft 2. But for him to do what he wants, probably moving to Korea and all, we would have to invest way more than what we think [an organization] should in StarCraft 2 these days."
"If [MaDFroG] were a top 5 candidate, it would have been a different scenario. I mean no disrespect, but to sum it up, his expectations and ours did not match for 2011," he said. "But it's a dynamic market. Anything can happen."
Muller also mentions that it is not so much about saving money:
- "I feel players have the wrong approach. Right now the casters are the stars, not the players," says Muller
On July 16 2011 04:25 SiNoCiDe wrote: A shame that MC and Nada agreed to represent a trashy sponsor such as SK. They lost my respect after what they did to Madfrog.
"Fredrik needs more budget than we are willing to pay for one StarCraft 2 player at the moment," explained Muller. "He is a great guy and player and we had a good time to check where he and SK are in terms of StarCraft 2. But for him to do what he wants, probably moving to Korea and all, we would have to invest way more than what we think [an organization] should in StarCraft 2 these days."
"If [MaDFroG] were a top 5 candidate, it would have been a different scenario. I mean no disrespect, but to sum it up, his expectations and ours did not match for 2011," he said. "But it's a dynamic market. Anything can happen."
Muller also mentions that it is not so much about saving money:
- "I feel players have the wrong approach. Right now the casters are the stars, not the players," says Muller
Pretty trashy response for a player who did a lot for SK in WC3 and took best gamer of the year in '04. It's clear that SK are parasites just want to make money and market their brand. They don't give a shit about e-sports or the players that represent them.
dont SK and oGs have conflicting sponsors?..... as (last i knew) SK had Steelseries as a sponsor, and oGs have Razer I may be wrong, yet if this is right... wont this cause conflict over who they represent at tournaments, such as what gear they use etc
I think I've heard of SK precisely once as part of some event in the sidebar, so.. good for them, some sick exposure.
You know they have like 10times more fans worldwide then TL right?...
I am an SC2 fan, not a fan of CS/Quake/WoW/what have you. Don't snub me for having no interest in your hobbies.
SK has not had any relevance in the SC2 scene and this move gives them more exposure within that context. Whether they have fans in other games is a nonissue.
All I have to say is that its good to see the old west scene supporting what they should, coL picked up a sc2 team (which og members told me they would never have interest in the game around beta) and now a team like SK gaming sponsors NaDa&MC. Good stuff.
On July 15 2011 18:55 Animostas wrote: Really kind of weird in my opinion, I don't really see why MC and Nada can't just play as oGs members.
I don't know if SK Gaming is really renowned as a Starcraft II team so it just feels kind of off to have two of the best players in the world representing them all of a sudden.
I agree but if I had to guess the underlying reason for it Id guess that it would have to do with SK paying for the travel and living expenses.
As I think about this more and more it really doesn't sit well with me that MC and Nada are going to rep different teams when not in the Korea.
Oh wow this is great. MC and Nada will more easily be able to travel around the world to compete, and we will actually get to see Nada in foreign events... though MC already didn't seem to have much trouble getting in foreign events. Looking forward to it!
this is all kind of confusing to me, as I don't understand why they cant be oGs... or why didn't they just represent themselves as Team Liquid? This is all kind of odd haha. But I guess its gona help e-sports XD
I wonder what the exact details are. Is SK purely paying for travel or are they giving some sort of salary on top of that as well? In addition, what % cut will SK be taking on tournament winnings? I'm guessing its just purely travel since they're still oGs players. Interesting move.
SK is trying to set up their player/team standard by 'renting' MC and Nada. Basically they cant find a decent fresh player now but their goal is to create a all stars level team. This is only their first move but it's already kind of big shock in the SC2 community. Waiting to see their further actions.
On July 16 2011 05:15 soul5 wrote: I wish they would start their own team how does this help the foreign scene?
It isn't SK's responsibility to help the foreign scene.
Ofcourse it isnt, but it would be nice!
I dont really care all that much about Foreigners vs Koreans, I just want good games to be played pretty much. BUT, what I do have a problem with is SK as an organisation. They have a terrible reputation for not paying players for instance.
I also have a few personal incidents where some SK people have acted pretty douchily but most of all, their fans are the scum of the E-sports scene! That is not anything against SK, I´ve just got a problem with MC and NaDa representing a team that I directly associate with douchebag 12 year olds hehe.
But best of luck, I hope SK can get me on their side!
On July 16 2011 05:04 ReboundEU wrote: Never liked SK, it's just a CS clan..nothing special in other games. It's like their last breath trying not to be forgotten
SK has been at the top of the CS scene and were the first to have professional, salaried players. They have been very well represented in quake with Toxic/Toxjq then rapha. Their WC3 squads were all excellent. their FIFA twins pretty much won every WCG/EPS they did. I hate WoW as an esport but their SK.EU squad was always good, same as their SK.us And pretty much every other game SK has had their hand in they had quite an impact. SK is/was the best team outside of the korean BW teams, it's a shame bds left because they have gone a bit downhill since then but you can't hate on them when they are a big reason esports has kept getting bigger. How many other teams can attract sponsors out of the industry like Nike, Adidas, they even had SK mastercards at some point.
I think that SK gaming is hyping this deal way more in their favour than it was negotiated (ie trying to leech off). This is more of a sponsoring contract for two players with the obligation to wear shirts of their sponsors than anything else. How SK gaming can come up with saying MC and Nada are part of their roster, is beyond being honest, more like being shady. But SK Gaming has a history of be ruthless and shady.
I See little point in what SK is doing besides trying to buy there way into SC2. Unless SK has intentions to train other players with MC/NaDa to buid a team (Does not appear the be the case) than what they are doing is a rather lame move.
After all it is SK gaming though, it should be expected.
On July 15 2011 22:48 LastDance wrote: lol SK added Nada and MC to their team roster: http://www.sk-gaming.com/players/ in the profiles they made it says "former teams oGs"
Seriously SK, nobody considers these players yours. you've just become their airfare bitch
Lol, basically this.
MC and NaDa are like "We wanna make more money by taking foreigner's cash! Wanna pay our airfare so we give you a shoutout when we win?"
SK: "ok, here take our money."
Where does it say former team oGs? Or did they just delete it? Wouldnt surprise me at all though, lol
This is embarrassing and really cheap of SK tbh. They had like MaDFroG in the early days of SC2, but just to "buy" too big Names aint really shine thru, people don´t even care what freaking team name players have, they enjoy the games of them.
I imagine oGs can effort it easy to bring them to non-Korean tourneys, so this is just big deep shitz. *huge golf clap*
On July 15 2011 19:05 Slasher wrote: The fact that so many people don't know SK Gaming is baffling and hilarious at the same time. Oh, Alex.
SK Gaming is the first professional gaming team, based in Germany, and is probably the most iconic team in history although lately not so much. They have had Korean Warcraft 3 pros among champion CS, Quake, WoW, etc teams. I'd give a hitory lesson but it's 6 AM.
MC and NaDa are not TL/oGs. They are SK/oGs, and they will be flat out SK.NaDa and SK.MC at MLG, Dreamhack, and other non-Korean events.
They'll wear the tag, some commentators will mention it once, but they'll still be oGsNada and oGsMC for everyone. As you see, here at least, oGs is way more known than SK (which makes no sense, I agree on that one)
Good "pickup" (?), still, would've expected more
They are Sk/ogs now. They will be ogs in korea, but at foreigner events they will be wearing the SK uniform and clan tag.
Definitely kind of a strange pickup. I mean, separating pure Korean teams from foreign teams? I guess I can understand that oGs has no intentions probably of sending their members overseas, so a partnership with SK would be nice, but ...
It does seem strange that SK would do this sort of deal even though they should have the power and organizational abilities to create their own foreign team. So, to be honest, I do echo some of the community in seeing that this is SK's method of getting SC2 recognition by sponsoring good Korean players who might not be able to fund their own trips out.
Although from a PR perspective, I think we're all going to realize that MC and Nada are really oGs, and SK being more of a large sponsorship organization at this point, rather than a 'pro-team'. I'm wondering if they're thinking of picking up other Koreans from other teams... SK.Korean-AllStars?
On July 16 2011 06:25 Slasher wrote: This entire thread sounds like sour grapes from a TL community over two players not being on 'their' team, which they never were in the first place.
Possibly. I'm more inclined to believe that the complainers in this thread think that SK forced this deal on ogs and are just trying to "buy" their way into SC2. SK Gaming is simply saw an opportunity to grab two top players and they acted upon it. Anyone has the right to do this, the notion that you disapprove of a team doing this is ridiculous.
Also, to the so called "fans" of esport, why the hell are you mad at this deal? If SC2 continues to grow we will see this type of business alot. This is good for esports and competitive play between the koreans and foreigners.
well...not sure how i like it. it's good news in the sence that it will probably be easier for MC&Nada to go to foreign events as SK is gonna pay but...i dunno. They are also here to represent their team proudly, not just switchin shirts to make look like they belong to SK. They train with oGs-TL in KR not SK...rly as most ppl, not so sure how I like it... I rly like SK-Gaming but I feel they need to have their own team or they will only be a sponsor or a e-sport organisation. what do they rly want ?
On July 16 2011 06:02 Naughty wrote: I See little point in what SK is doing besides trying to buy there way into SC2. Unless SK has intentions to train other players with MC/NaDa to buid a team (Does not appear the be the case) than what they are doing is a rather lame move.
After all it is SK gaming though, it should be expected.
No different to how other top european teams are operating at the moment. They have all been acquiring players from smaller teams as they always have done in other esports.
Also no different to complexity buying Root or FXO recruiting players from all over the world. Its just that they are starting later than the others.
On July 16 2011 06:25 Slasher wrote: This entire thread sounds like sour grapes from a TL community over two players not being on 'their' team, which they never were in the first place.
yeah, but they talk about the actual matter. you just dont seem to like the communitys reaction though.
On July 16 2011 06:02 Naughty wrote: I See little point in what SK is doing besides trying to buy there way into SC2. Unless SK has intentions to train other players with MC/NaDa to buid a team (Does not appear the be the case) than what they are doing is a rather lame move.
After all it is SK gaming though, it should be expected.
No different to how other top european teams are operating at the moment. They have all been acquiring players from smaller teams as they always have done in other esports.
Also no different to complexity buying Root or FXO recruiting players from all over the world. Its just that they are starting later than the others.
this is a totally different situation. Sk is obviously not buying any player to join their team they are just payin (in a way or another) so sick player with huge fan base like MC or Nada just were a SK shirt (that's the way to make money :o). I dont rly like that. They create their own SC2 team in the SK-Gaming infrastructure or they dont. Payin for wearin a shirt so it look like they have SC2 players (as SC2 is gettin so big in e-sport you kinda need to).
On July 16 2011 06:22 LiOn wrote: This is embarrassing and really cheap of SK tbh. They had like MaDFroG in the early days of SC2, but just to "buy" too big Names aint really shine thru, people don´t even care what freaking team name players have, they enjoy the games of them.
I imagine oGs can effort it easy to bring them to non-Korean tourneys, so this is just big deep shitz. *huge golf clap*
Wait, there is an organization out there that is just willing to throw money into the sc2 scene? What a terrible, terrible thing!
On July 15 2011 22:36 Aphasie wrote: "Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken" - Tyler Durden
I really dont see what SK gaming has to gain from this. They are borrowing players that has loyalties elsewhere. Its a publicity stunt that does not make a team, doesnt give backbone, has no investment towards the future. I mean if MC and Nada does well i think its a lot easier for them to get sponsors and such but its just a fad. Once they decide to leave, SK gaming will die again. And i really dont see SK gaming building up a mercenary team of pro koreans that can participate in team leagues or have a base outside of korea.
Also, Sk has always seemed like a shady and greedy team to me. Lets see what happens with the koreans.
Highly doubt it. If anything SK will buy out more top tier kr players and set up a pro house in the us. Or just pick some awesome dudes from kr gmaster ladder
reading all the hurt in this thread kind of made me laugh.
First of all it's not impressive that you've never heard of SK gaming (15 % of posts in this thread). it only shows you are kind of a newbie and an ignorant when it comes to esports in general. SK as an organization is older than TL.
some people were saying that the clan tag would be SK-TL oGs, now really have you ever seen an oGs team member present himself or be presented as oGs-TL? no, because that's not the type of agreement that TL has with oGs.
on the other hand SK gaming is being represented by these players and that's it. There will be no oGs Nada at dreamhack. the player Nada is representing team SK and he will be SK|Nada.
Reading some of the comments people are suggesting that oGs are doing SK the favour, but lets be honest SK holds a tighter grip on the E-sports scene. Of course BW is famous in Korea, and the first to introduce _real_ "pro gaming" but SK over the years have still achieved way more. Yet, may seem irrelevant but after time players from SK's previous CS team have claimed that SK have not been the most loyal towards their players. (in terms of prize distribution)
May have been misleading with that post, I'm not comparing SK to Korean pro gaming as a whole, but to oGs.
AKA SK just dumped thousands of dollars on OGS lap and basically said HELP US NOT SUCK AT SC2 PLZ and ogs is like ok heres our two top players enjoy =)! so now Sk wont look so bad in the RTS scene since really SK is predominantly FPS. Really This doesn't change shit other then MC and Nada will be able to go to more foreign tournaments and OGS doesn't have to dish out the cash to send them. otherwise this news is a waste of time to read and completely irrelevant.
I don't have a problem with them buying their way into the sc2 scene, the problem is they aren't buying their way in ? They are "borrowing" them outside of Korea. MC \ Nada basically plays for 2 teams now, and nobody will associate MC \ Nada with SK. Its just a bad idea all around
On July 16 2011 07:06 Manimal_pro wrote: reading all the hurt in this thread kind of made me laugh.
First of all it's not impressive that you've never heard of SK gaming (15 % of posts in this thread). it only shows you are kind of a newbie and an ignorant when it comes to esports in general. SK as an organization is older than TL.
You must be a fool. Many people from BW followed the BW scene only (why would we follow any oher scene when BW was the game we played) and SK failed hard with getting into that game so it's not so strange if people never heard of SK.
And cute quote "SK.Nada & SK.MC owning the scene" rofl. You must be some kind of SK fanboy since you got so butthurt when people didn't know about SK.
On July 16 2011 07:21 papaz wrote: It seems like a bad idea because no one will see either nada or mc as SK.
Id rather spend money on actually trying to build a team.
I kind of agree with this. They honestly could've done a better job of spreading their brand name by making the agreement with WMF instead. (And to be honest, I still find myself thinking of Lyn as SK.Lyn anyways.)
SK Gaming is huge and now they are geniuses for getting these two players to play for them outside of Korea. Would be interesting to see who else they try to pick up as SC2 continues to grow at a ridiculous rate. MC and Nada, all they need is a Top Zerg and they are complete. Maybe oGsZenio lol
On July 16 2011 07:23 Ghad wrote: I just can't wrap my head around this whole deal. You would think SK must be interested in building a real SC2 team.
With their recent failure I'm sure that they're hesitant to try again, plus most of the best talent in Europe and NA has already been picked up. The Korean teams aren't exactly rolling in money either and any of them would be happy to get financial support. This is a move to get a legitimate presence in SC2 and (hopefully) start the building blocks for their own team. But there's no indication of the latter yet. Their handling of their old SC2 team makes me seriously doubt their understanding of the scene and how to get results out of their players.
On July 16 2011 06:22 LiOn wrote: This is embarrassing and really cheap of SK tbh. They had like MaDFroG in the early days of SC2, but just to "buy" too big Names aint really shine thru, people don´t even care what freaking team name players have, they enjoy the games of them.
I imagine oGs can effort it easy to bring them to non-Korean tourneys, so this is just big deep shitz. *huge golf clap*
Wait, there is an organization out there that is just willing to throw money into the sc2 scene? What a terrible, terrible thing!
On July 16 2011 06:22 LiOn wrote: This is embarrassing and really cheap of SK tbh. They had like MaDFroG in the early days of SC2, but just to "buy" too big Names aint really shine thru, people don´t even care what freaking team name players have, they enjoy the games of them.
I imagine oGs can effort it easy to bring them to non-Korean tourneys, so this is just big deep shitz. *huge golf clap*
Wait, there is an organization out there that is just willing to throw money into the sc2 scene? What a terrible, terrible thing!
seriously
why do nerds find fault with everything
its disgusting
It's our nature. I'd bet a lot of us here were the ones in High School relentlessly arguing with the teacher trying to get a 98% instead of a 97%, when in the end it didn't really matter at all, an A is an A.
I think the biggest problem is the wording. "Representing" What does that mean? A player playing for a team represents said team when they play a tournamen, but they would also be representing a sponsor. It's kind of ambiguous.
Also, I don't think it's a bad thing. Reading the first pages here, most comments are along the lines of "This feels weird" which is far from "This is bad". It's just an odd thing.
On July 16 2011 06:25 Slasher wrote: This entire thread sounds like sour grapes from a TL community over two players not being on 'their' team, which they never were in the first place.
There's a problem with your perception then, cuz I'm pretty much a TL anti fan, with the exception of Tyler. Yet I am still against this ridiculous deal and expressed myself so in ~4-5 posts.
On July 16 2011 06:02 Naughty wrote: I See little point in what SK is doing besides trying to buy there way into SC2. Unless SK has intentions to train other players with MC/NaDa to buid a team (Does not appear the be the case) than what they are doing is a rather lame move.
After all it is SK gaming though, it should be expected.
No different to how other top european teams are operating at the moment. They have all been acquiring players from smaller teams as they always have done in other esports.
Also no different to complexity buying Root or FXO recruiting players from all over the world. Its just that they are starting later than the others.
Which other european teams are you talking about? aAa, mouz, mTw and ESC were all active in SC:BW previously... and not in the pitiful way of SK's attempt then.
coL, too, actually had an SC2 squad of their own and they bought ROOT, instead of borrowing their players. Same for FXO.
On July 16 2011 06:22 LiOn wrote: This is embarrassing and really cheap of SK tbh. They had like MaDFroG in the early days of SC2, but just to "buy" too big Names aint really shine thru, people don´t even care what freaking team name players have, they enjoy the games of them.
I imagine oGs can effort it easy to bring them to non-Korean tourneys, so this is just big deep shitz. *huge golf clap*
Wait, there is an organization out there that is just willing to throw money into the sc2 scene? What a terrible, terrible thing!
On July 16 2011 07:06 Manimal_pro wrote: some people were saying that the clan tag would be SK-TL oGs, now really have you ever seen an oGs team member present himself or be presented as oGs-TL? no, because that's not the type of agreement that TL has with oGs.
on the other hand SK gaming is being represented by these players and that's it. There will be no oGs Nada at dreamhack. the player Nada is representing team SK and he will be SK|Nada.
I know that you meant to say something else, but you weren't very clear, so this picture is of relevance. They are collaborating on the team house and count as one team in GSTL.
SK is probably using this to acquire sponsors. They will present MC and Nada as SK players with a long list of accomplishments. Sponsors will then go to SK's player profile and and get the impression that both players are exclusively playing for SK. Smart.
On July 16 2011 08:09 Arcanne wrote: SK is probably using this to acquire sponsors. They will present MC and Nada as SK players with a long list of accomplishments. Sponsors will then go to SK's player profile and and get the impression that both players are exclusively playing for SK. Smart.
LOL if these sponsors don't check the backgrounds of two of the most famous SC2 players in the world they deserved to get duped. But I don't think SK is stupid enough to try a stunt like that. A Google search would disprove it.
I dont know if the question has been answered yet but what about the TLAF partnership? Will MC and Nada have a TLAF patch alongside with the SK patch? That sounds a bit overdoing it imo. I'm a bit confused.
Such a sad news. I will dislike SK even more after this. Buying their way into sc2 is just plain awful and make them look like just bad. I don't wanna see MC and NaDa wear the SK tag seriously... Wearing a SK badge on their shirt is OK because SK will act as a "sponsor" for them but wearing the tag in their names just NO.
On July 16 2011 08:09 Arcanne wrote: SK is probably using this to acquire sponsors. They will present MC and Nada as SK players with a long list of accomplishments. Sponsors will then go to SK's player profile and and get the impression that both players are exclusively playing for SK. Smart.
LOL if these sponsors don't check the backgrounds of two of the most famous SC2 players in the world they deserved to get duped. But I don't think SK is stupid enough to try a stunt like that. A Google search would disprove it.
They will get sponsors though, that's the whole reason for this deal. The question is how much of that sponsorship money will go to oGs.
On July 16 2011 08:13 DPK wrote: Such a sad news. I will dislike SK even more after this. Buying their way into sc2 is just plain awful and make them look like just bad. I don't wanna see MC and NaDa wear the SK tag seriously... Wearing a SK badge on their shirt is OK because SK will act as a "sponsor" for them but wearing the tag in their names just NO.
On July 16 2011 08:09 Arcanne wrote: SK is probably using this to acquire sponsors. They will present MC and Nada as SK players with a long list of accomplishments. Sponsors will then go to SK's player profile and and get the impression that both players are exclusively playing for SK. Smart.
LOL if these sponsors don't check the backgrounds of two of the most famous SC2 players in the world they deserved to get duped. But I don't think SK is stupid enough to try a stunt like that. A Google search would disprove it.
They will get sponsors though, that's the whole reason for this deal. The question is how much of that sponsorship money will go to oGs.
I imagine they will but SK won't pull out a baldfaced (and easily disprovable) lie to do so.
If they do get the sponsors I've concerned how SK will be using the money. Like I said before they haven't exactly laid out a long-term plan to establish themselves in the SC2 scene.
This is good news because presumably SK will be flying these guys out to more events. MC is already quite prominent in the foreign scene, but this pretty much makes it guaranteed to see him at the vast majority of foreign events.
And honestly, I think whether you love or hate him, he brings a lot of excitement to every event he's at.
As long as NaDa and MC continue going to foreign events, i don't really care what team they're representing. Just want to see some quality games out of top class players.
On July 16 2011 07:09 iNz wrote: Reading some of the comments people are suggesting that oGs are doing SK the favour, but lets be honest SK holds a tighter grip on the E-sports scene.
SK has a tighter grip on the esports scene? Really? What with their CS team, quake players, and WoW team? Real esports powerhouse there. In the two largest esports scenes, SC and fighting games, they have shit. I would say they have a very weak grip on the esports scene and are grasping at straws here.
On July 16 2011 04:25 SiNoCiDe wrote: A shame that MC and Nada agreed to represent a trashy sponsor such as SK. They lost my respect after what they did to Madfrog.
"Fredrik needs more budget than we are willing to pay for one StarCraft 2 player at the moment," explained Muller. "He is a great guy and player and we had a good time to check where he and SK are in terms of StarCraft 2. But for him to do what he wants, probably moving to Korea and all, we would have to invest way more than what we think [an organization] should in StarCraft 2 these days."
"If [MaDFroG] were a top 5 candidate, it would have been a different scenario. I mean no disrespect, but to sum it up, his expectations and ours did not match for 2011," he said. "But it's a dynamic market. Anything can happen."
Muller also mentions that it is not so much about saving money:
- "I feel players have the wrong approach. Right now the casters are the stars, not the players," says Muller
Pretty trashy response for a player who did a lot for SK in WC3 and took best gamer of the year in '04. It's clear that SK are parasites just want to make money and market their brand. They don't give a shit about e-sports or the players that represent them.
? what do you mean. i wouldn't even put him in top 50 for sc2 players.
On July 16 2011 04:25 SiNoCiDe wrote: A shame that MC and Nada agreed to represent a trashy sponsor such as SK. They lost my respect after what they did to Madfrog.
"Fredrik needs more budget than we are willing to pay for one StarCraft 2 player at the moment," explained Muller. "He is a great guy and player and we had a good time to check where he and SK are in terms of StarCraft 2. But for him to do what he wants, probably moving to Korea and all, we would have to invest way more than what we think [an organization] should in StarCraft 2 these days."
"If [MaDFroG] were a top 5 candidate, it would have been a different scenario. I mean no disrespect, but to sum it up, his expectations and ours did not match for 2011," he said. "But it's a dynamic market. Anything can happen."
Muller also mentions that it is not so much about saving money:
- "I feel players have the wrong approach. Right now the casters are the stars, not the players," says Muller
Pretty trashy response for a player who did a lot for SK in WC3 and took best gamer of the year in '04. It's clear that SK are parasites just want to make money and market their brand. They don't give a shit about e-sports or the players that represent them.
Sponsors have always been and always will be about making money, expanding their brand recognition, etc. I didn't even know sk HAD an SC2 team at all. You can't blame them for wanting good representation. If anything, that's BETTER for Esports, because Sponsorships SHOULD be difficult to obtain and require you to be one of the best, rather than a joke.
EDIT: No idea why I capitalized Sponsorships, including in this edit.
I think that MaDFroG was a bit too much greedy for his results and that SK can't be flamed for that move.
I really like that SK is going to sponsorship MC and NaDa and I think that it's a great way to position theirselves at the scene (because their former team was too much unknown), but it'll be a bit strange seeing them with different tags.
SK Gaming has been doing poorly these days. It will actually make MC and Nada look bad. SK Gaming has been holding onto CS 1.6 too tightly these days and with such controversies surrounding the stealing of players from other teams and not paying their players which caused some to leave gives SK a bad name...Been following the CS scene since it came out and SK was the driving force of E-Sports but since they didn't approach SC2 with seriousness now they are lagging behind...and nobody wants to sponsor them...probably why they are making nada and MC represent them for SC2...
tl;dr
SK WAS a good organization but these days its full of people that don't know how to run their business.
In other news, great news! I can't wait to see a well practiced NaDa at foreign events, and people will get used to seeing SK around after one event. The worked out great for rapha, and I'm sure they'll work out for two players like NaDa and MC.
How can ppl think this is bad? They let MC and NaDa fly all over the world to participate and ppl somehow find a way to complain about. Yes its obviously a publicity stunt but does that matter? we get MC and NaDa. Its quite ironic since everyone wants more participation from the koreans and when someone gives them a hand (ofc not for free) its somehow bad.
TBH, SK is helping MC keep his presence in the foreign scene. You guys are never happy. Always insist on seeing the bad side of things. Killing e-sports? Grow the fuck up. Sooner or later, you idiots will be saying that SK's sponsoring of Koreans in foreign tournaments aids the "Korean invasion" and is, once again, killing e-sports. Listen to yourselves for once.
On July 16 2011 09:35 NotSorry wrote: One thing I always liked about SK they never attempt to make a team by getting the hot new up and comers it's always just "buy the best"
Exactly. There is a reason why they have been able to sponsor so many amazing players. Players WANT to play for them, because they offer the best to the best. Like it or hate it, I think its great for esports that the very best players can get this kind of assistance.
I am glad MC and Nada now have reliable support for foreign events. I just wonder how much though know about SK's shady past. Maybe they have changed...
idk if its been talked about previously but I wonder if SK will fly them out to anaheim. Sadly MC would have to play through the open bracket if this were the case but I doubt that would ever be a problem to him.
On July 16 2011 10:21 chipmonklord17 wrote: idk if its been talked about previously but I wonder if SK will fly them out to anaheim. Sadly MC would have to play through the open bracket if this were the case but I doubt that would ever be a problem to him.
That's not really worth his time though...he still has a good shot to win GSL anyway.
On July 16 2011 10:21 chipmonklord17 wrote: idk if its been talked about previously but I wonder if SK will fly them out to anaheim. Sadly MC would have to play through the open bracket if this were the case but I doubt that would ever be a problem to him.
MC said he isn't going to any foreign tournaments for a few months to work on improvement instead. Besides, he is still in the GSL.
So, SK failed miserably to get their own SC2 team up, basically fired all of their own players, and now pays oGs players to wear the SK tag, just to see their name on top spots in tournaments. This is just pathetic. MC and NaDa are not SK-gaming, no matter how badly SK wants it to be true.
i don't really understand the hate that SK is getting for bringing two of the most popular korean players to foreign tournaments
imho ogs and their sponsors don't benefit from sending their players abroad a whole lot and if this partnership helps us with having MC and Nada at foreign lans in the future i wholeheartedly support it
I am glad MC and Nada now have reliable support for foreign events. I just wonder how much though know about SK's shady past. Maybe they have changed...
SK has a shady past because of ONE team they sponsored in WoW? Maybe you're the one who really needs to read up on SK gamings past before spouting nonsense.
No, that is elite WoW pvp at it's best, fabulous players and excellent team communication, I wonder what happened to that community??????
It is still SK. Those are the players they chose to represent them. They are trying to promote themselves as a professional team and they recruit people like this. It is the equivalent of Team Liquid picking up CombatEX.
On July 16 2011 06:25 Slasher wrote: This entire thread sounds like sour grapes from a TL community over two players not being on 'their' team, which they never were in the first place.
Some people are such idiots. Quoted in case some people missed this garbage post. The whole "posting completely false, baseless speculations just to stir shit up" just makes you look stupid.
No, that is elite WoW pvp at it's best, fabulous players and excellent team communication, I wonder what happened to that community??????
It is still SK. Those are the players they chose to represent them. They are trying to promote themselves as a professional team and they recruit people like this. It is the equivalent of Team Liquid picking up CombatEX.
How was SK supposed to know the guy was a complete jerk when they picked him up? He was dropped after that (first) event anyway.
No, that is elite WoW pvp at it's best, fabulous players and excellent team communication, I wonder what happened to that community??????
It is still SK. Those are the players they chose to represent them. They are trying to promote themselves as a professional team and they recruit people like this. It is the equivalent of Team Liquid picking up CombatEX.
How was SK supposed to know the guy was a complete jerk when they picked him up? He was dropped after that (first) event anyway.
They were the 2 biggest ragers in WoW even before the event. As I said before it would be like starcraft team blindly recruiting CombatEX just because he is grandmaster. If they aren't professional enough to google his name and see all the shit he has caused, then they have some serious management problems.
I am glad MC and Nada now have reliable support for foreign events. I just wonder how much though know about SK's shady past. Maybe they have changed...
SK has sponsored hundreds of players and dozens of teams, it isn't too surprising that ONE of the teams was "shady".
I think the acquisition of NaDa and MC is great and I hope to see them participating in many foreign tournies!
I am glad MC and Nada now have reliable support for foreign events. I just wonder how much though know about SK's shady past. Maybe they have changed...
SK has sponsored hundreds of players and dozens of teams, it isn't too surprising that ONE of the teams was "shady".
I think the acquisition of NaDa and MC is great and I hope to see them participating in many foreign tournies!
You should go read up on their HoN team from last month. I am not just calling them out because of one team. They have a reputation for picking up shady players, I just picked the most extreme example. Its the sad truth, and I hope Nada and MC won't end up regretting their decision.
I am glad MC and Nada now have reliable support for foreign events. I just wonder how much though know about SK's shady past. Maybe they have changed...
SK has sponsored hundreds of players and dozens of teams, it isn't too surprising that ONE of the teams was "shady".
I think the acquisition of NaDa and MC is great and I hope to see them participating in many foreign tournies!
You should go read up on their HoN team from last month. I am not just calling them out because of one team. They have a reputation for picking up shady players, I just picked the most extreme example. Its the sad truth, and I hope Nada and MC won't end up regretting their decision.
Oh so you add HoN as an example, probably the 2nd most unprofessional and game full of ragers there is behind WoW's PvP scene. Pretty poor examples to be honest in both those games are filled with "ragers" even the pro's. Honestly most Esports are filled with that type of behavior, SC2 just trys to take its self a lot more serious then most.
I am glad MC and Nada now have reliable support for foreign events. I just wonder how much though know about SK's shady past. Maybe they have changed...
SK has sponsored hundreds of players and dozens of teams, it isn't too surprising that ONE of the teams was "shady".
I think the acquisition of NaDa and MC is great and I hope to see them participating in many foreign tournies!
You should go read up on their HoN team from last month. I am not just calling them out because of one team. They have a reputation for picking up shady players, I just picked the most extreme example. Its the sad truth, and I hope Nada and MC won't end up regretting their decision.
Oh, stopped following HoN as religiously as I used to. Was that the shenanigans with Tralfamadore? Egad, yeah, I hope everything works out for Nada and MC.
Though, SC2 is generally a much more mannered ESPORT and also there's a lot less player interaction than in a game like WoW or HoN. Also the players ARE Nada and MC so unless the management is corrupt, I don't think there should be any issues.
I am glad MC and Nada now have reliable support for foreign events. I just wonder how much though know about SK's shady past. Maybe they have changed...
SK has sponsored hundreds of players and dozens of teams, it isn't too surprising that ONE of the teams was "shady".
I think the acquisition of NaDa and MC is great and I hope to see them participating in many foreign tournies!
You should go read up on their HoN team from last month. I am not just calling them out because of one team. They have a reputation for picking up shady players, I just picked the most extreme example. Its the sad truth, and I hope Nada and MC won't end up regretting their decision.
Oh so you add HoN as an example, probably the 2nd most unprofessional and game full of ragers there is behind WoW's PvP scene. Pretty poor examples to be honest in both those games are filled with "ragers" even the pro's. Honestly most Esports are filled with that type of behavior, SC2 just trys to take its self a lot more serious then most.
What a cheap move!! Dropping their players and picking up renowned players that are in a team to represent them outside of Korea. Anyways is there any point doing this ? sponsors?
I am glad MC and Nada now have reliable support for foreign events. I just wonder how much though know about SK's shady past. Maybe they have changed...
SK has sponsored hundreds of players and dozens of teams, it isn't too surprising that ONE of the teams was "shady".
I think the acquisition of NaDa and MC is great and I hope to see them participating in many foreign tournies!
You should go read up on their HoN team from last month. I am not just calling them out because of one team. They have a reputation for picking up shady players, I just picked the most extreme example. Its the sad truth, and I hope Nada and MC won't end up regretting their decision.
Oh so you add HoN as an example, probably the 2nd most unprofessional and game full of ragers there is behind WoW's PvP scene. Pretty poor examples to be honest in both those games are filled with "ragers" even the pro's. Honestly most Esports are filled with that type of behavior, SC2 just trys to take its self a lot more serious then most.
2nd? I'm afraid if there's one worse than it.
Hmm, Dota? haha not sure what you're aiming at but dota hon may aswell be the same thing.
I still remember Sk in their glory days! Dominating CS, WC3 and fifa. Its kinda sad how they are slowly dieing, it wont be long until SK completely disappears from e-sports. Gl to them tho
On July 15 2011 18:55 Animostas wrote: I don't really see why MC and Nada can't just play as oGs members.
Even if they have the SK tag outside korea, everybody in the world now MC and Nada are oGs members. No one is fooled. So it's 200% in favor of oGS coz they receive money from SK for the location of player and % of gains probably and they keep their notoriety outside korea even if their players wear the SK tag. SK will just win easy victories and without management.
Who cares? MC already representing "liquid ogs" whats the point of that SK thing? What does SK expect to achieve with this? MC will make some nice money with it I guess, but thats pretty much it.
The most we ca hope for is seeing mc in more foreign tourneys, but it didn't seem to be a problem so far to get him anywhere, also didn't he just say that he wants to stay in korea for a while to get in shape again?
This is some seriously weird stuff. I mean, to me, it seems that SK gaming decided they wanted to put a lot of money into SC2, they probably tried to sign European and Korean players to start with, and when that failed, they approached oGs with a lot of money to be able to say that MC and Nada are SK players. I really don't get that though, it's just such an obvious PR-trick. Well, well, more money into E-sports is always a good thing I suppose...
I am glad MC and Nada now have reliable support for foreign events. I just wonder how much though know about SK's shady past. Maybe they have changed...
SK has sponsored hundreds of players and dozens of teams, it isn't too surprising that ONE of the teams was "shady".
I think the acquisition of NaDa and MC is great and I hope to see them participating in many foreign tournies!
You should go read up on their HoN team from last month. I am not just calling them out because of one team. They have a reputation for picking up shady players, I just picked the most extreme example. Its the sad truth, and I hope Nada and MC won't end up regretting their decision.
They are also known to have a beast cs team for close to a decade
I am glad MC and Nada now have reliable support for foreign events. I just wonder how much though know about SK's shady past. Maybe they have changed...
SK has sponsored hundreds of players and dozens of teams, it isn't too surprising that ONE of the teams was "shady".
I think the acquisition of NaDa and MC is great and I hope to see them participating in many foreign tournies!
You should go read up on their HoN team from last month. I am not just calling them out because of one team. They have a reputation for picking up shady players, I just picked the most extreme example. Its the sad truth, and I hope Nada and MC won't end up regretting their decision.
They are also known to have a beast cs team for close to a decade
They have not really had a 'beast' CS-team since 2005-ish. Sure, their teams have been decent, but never really any superstar teams, until 2011.
I am glad MC and Nada now have reliable support for foreign events. I just wonder how much though know about SK's shady past. Maybe they have changed...
SK has sponsored hundreds of players and dozens of teams, it isn't too surprising that ONE of the teams was "shady".
I think the acquisition of NaDa and MC is great and I hope to see them participating in many foreign tournies!
You should go read up on their HoN team from last month. I am not just calling them out because of one team. They have a reputation for picking up shady players, I just picked the most extreme example. Its the sad truth, and I hope Nada and MC won't end up regretting their decision.
They are also known to have a beast cs team for close to a decade
They have not really had a 'beast' CS-team since 2005-ish. Sure, their teams have been decent, but never really any superstar teams, until 2011.
Are you serious, while talking this shit? SK had one of the best CS Teams ever and actually they have one of the best. SK had many Superstars in their teams. Fifa Twins hero and styla. Tod, Insomnia, Deadman, Lyn, Remind, many CS stars and more...basically you are talking just sh.t
There are two things i'd like to comment on ... i doubt that Nada and MC approached SK asking "if you are paying us travelling costs we will play for you" i guess it was more the other way around. MC already is at most foreigner events and i heared he said that he wants to concentrate more on korea for the next few months (and practice there alot) while Nada said in an interview that he is quiet busy with his study which by itself is mindblowing. I doubt we will see Nada at many Foreign Lan Events and MC ... well he will still be there just wearing an SK shirt that no-one really cares about other then SK so they can publish his results on their website besides not having anything to do with it. Might be attractive for sponsors but i doubt the scene therefore will suddenly turn into SK fans ...
second, though i don't think that this hurts eSports, it hurts the foreigner competition. They buy korean mercenaries who give a shit about whats going on outside of korea but just learned that there's a lot of money to take so they come here and rape faces, while the neccesary infrastructure teams like SK COULD provide is still not there for foreigners. If this move by SK turns out to be somehow successful atleast in a short term i think we will see alot of bigger teams doing the same ... we will see less and less foreigners in NA/European tournaments ... many people wont watch them anymore (i don't count myself in because i personally give a shit about foreigners vs. koreans but i KNOW from THIS forums that MANY do) .... sponsors will lose interest, prices will decrease ... koreans lose interest again since its not worth the effort anymore ... and then the scene is pretty much fucked ...
in the long term this move by SK though might be giving them some short term success but also alot of Anti-Fans will be considered a big failure in the future (just my oppinion) ...
It just shows that SK has no clue about SC2 ... they've failed to establish a own team which they put only minimal effort into and instead of establishing a korean based team in korea similar to other teams there to compete in the GSL/GTSL they just "buy" some well known players (because well its NADA and MC is at alot of foreigner events already) to rape some faces outside of korea. They seem to think that no one outside of korea cares about korea and no one will recognize MC and NADA as oGs players, which shows me that they have no clue about the scene ... there are alot of other players and teams that are just waiting to get active outside of korea i guess ... imo they could get alot of success by establishing a SK.Korea team from talented players inside of korea and afterwards bringing them to foreigner events ... but this would require knowledge, effort and time. Something SK obviously is not willing to put into SC2, which to me is a big indicator that SK doesn't really care about the game
wow sk is really desperate, they dont care about player strenght, they just want famous faces to make $$$ of sponsoring deals. I was in SK 10 years ago playing quake, and everyone was like a family, super friendly and caring about esports. Then the management changed and they dropped quake 3 for FIFA and shit. SK should have died a long time ago.
Now that MC and NaDa have funding to go to foreign events should we expect to see them at more of them? Now that GSL has a much more managable schedule I think its possible. I was hoping to see oGs become a international team.
On July 17 2011 00:04 Stiluz wrote: Meh, this seems kinda boring, they're not really in SK so not impressed.
I feel the same, I don't understand the people who are jumping up and down all excited.
more nada and mc at more events is pretty exciting, and i bet you will be first in line to watch them compete with an sk shirt on. oooo a shirt big deal, lol
On July 17 2011 00:04 Stiluz wrote: Meh, this seems kinda boring, they're not really in SK so not impressed.
I feel the same, I don't understand the people who are jumping up and down all excited.
more nada and mc at more events is pretty exciting, and i bet you will be first in line to watch them compete with an sk shirt on. oooo a shirt big deal, lol
I doubt we will see more MC on events, he has been to so many foreign tournaments already in the past months, any more would completely kill his practice.. As for Nada, the reason he didn't travel to foreign events so far surely not a monetary one but just time constraints. If SK were to sponsor Zenex then maybe you would have a point
MC Making more Cash hahaha... Well, in my case I only liked SK when they had Loda on their DotA team, but that was a looong time ago.
I don't really care, I don't thing nada and MC are gonna be showing up at too many foreign events. They need to practice in korea it's better for their improvement.
On July 16 2011 23:51 Roaches wrote: So SK is like, the Real Madrid of SC2. Uncool man...
If you go by football, id say more the Manchester City
nah, say what you will about Man City and Real madrid, they are quality teams. The real money team with no quality is Anzhi Makhachkala, a mid tier russian league team with billions. Tried to sign Neymar (lol) but failed, then tried to sign ganso for 50 million, failed again, then tried to sign Pavlyuchenko and failed again.
On July 17 2011 00:04 Stiluz wrote: Meh, this seems kinda boring, they're not really in SK so not impressed.
I feel the same, I don't understand the people who are jumping up and down all excited.
more nada and mc at more events is pretty exciting, and i bet you will be first in line to watch them compete with an sk shirt on. oooo a shirt big deal, lol
MC has already been to a great number of non-Korean based events and has stated that he intends to refocus on training in Korea for the time being, to make up for lost training time and associated loss of form/skill for being out of his practice environment. NaDa intended to visit Dreamhack, but withdrew in favour of his studies.
They were not absent from the scene without SK at all, and neither NaDa's studies nor MC's practice will suddenly disappear just because of SK.
Why are you talking such nonsense? (rhetorical question; don't answer, it's quite obvious)
On July 17 2011 00:04 Stiluz wrote: Meh, this seems kinda boring, they're not really in SK so not impressed.
I feel the same, I don't understand the people who are jumping up and down all excited.
more nada and mc at more events is pretty exciting, and i bet you will be first in line to watch them compete with an sk shirt on. oooo a shirt big deal, lol
MC has already been to a great number of non-Korean based events and has stated that he intends to refocus on training in Korea for the time being, to make up for lost training time and associated loss of form/skill for being out of his practice environment. NaDa intended to visit Dreamhack, but withdrew in favour of his studies.
They were not absent from the scene without SK at all, and neither NaDa's studies nor MC's practice will suddenly disappear just because of SK.
Why are you talking such nonsense? (rhetorical question; don't answer, it's quite obvious)
Maybe, but hopefully they will have better accommodations when they attend foreign events, thanks to SK. We'll just have to wait and see I guess.
I like it cause it means we'll see Nada at foreign events! Plus if Sk tries to keep Nada's prize money from him, he will just rip off his shirt and intimidate them until they're pissing his prize money.
No, that is elite WoW pvp at it's best, fabulous players and excellent team communication, I wonder what happened to that community??????
You know, as much of a mess WoW was as an esport (though it did have its moments/epic games), this incident was even an embarrassment to the WoW PvP community between two players that were almost universally hated. Think CombatEX and Deezer. On a team.
And yes, it was SK gaming. And it was only one of their teams. The other one they had at the time was actually pretty respectable, but they are for the most part an awful organisation.
I was honestly expecting so much more when Alexander Mueller announced that SK had plans of focusing more on Starcraft 2 with a Korean-focused lineup. I had expectations of an actual team with a proper management and backing. I could easily see a practice house based in Europe or Korea considering the amount of money SK spents on their CS team, this doesn't sound unrealistic.
Instead of actually getting a proper Korean team they pull this... None of their wins or skills will ever be attributed to SK, but to their training with oGs, so what is the point of this? It feels more like MC and NaDa are just getting a personal sponsor via SK, but I can't see the benefit for SK doing this.
Even if MC improves amazingly over the next months, this will not make me feel like SK is a top team that can compete with the likes of Dignitas, Fnatic and EG. Because they have no players on their team. Just convinced some players to wear their shirts during specific matches. Two completely different things.
On July 16 2011 23:44 AT_Tack wrote: wow sk is really desperate, they dont care about player strenght, they just want famous faces to make $$$ of sponsoring deals. I was in SK 10 years ago playing quake, and everyone was like a family, super friendly and caring about esports. Then the management changed and they dropped quake 3 for FIFA and shit. SK should have died a long time ago.
yeah SK Gaming and Schroet Kommando are not the same to me..
SK Gaming was a NY Yankee organisation in W3, buying best players - not bothering with actualy MAKING a team...so, nothing is changed...no love for them
I am glad MC and Nada now have reliable support for foreign events. I just wonder how much though know about SK's shady past. Maybe they have changed...
SK has sponsored hundreds of players and dozens of teams, it isn't too surprising that ONE of the teams was "shady".
I think the acquisition of NaDa and MC is great and I hope to see them participating in many foreign tournies!
You should go read up on their HoN team from last month. I am not just calling them out because of one team. They have a reputation for picking up shady players, I just picked the most extreme example. Its the sad truth, and I hope Nada and MC won't end up regretting their decision.
They are also known to have a beast cs team for close to a decade
They have not really had a 'beast' CS-team since 2005-ish. Sure, their teams have been decent, but never really any superstar teams, until 2011.
Are you serious, while talking this shit? SK had one of the best CS Teams ever and actually they have one of the best. SK had many Superstars in their teams. Fifa Twins hero and styla. Tod, Insomnia, Deadman, Lyn, Remind, many CS stars and more...basically you are talking just sh.t
I am glad MC and Nada now have reliable support for foreign events. I just wonder how much though know about SK's shady past. Maybe they have changed...
SK has sponsored hundreds of players and dozens of teams, it isn't too surprising that ONE of the teams was "shady".
I think the acquisition of NaDa and MC is great and I hope to see them participating in many foreign tournies!
You should go read up on their HoN team from last month. I am not just calling them out because of one team. They have a reputation for picking up shady players, I just picked the most extreme example. Its the sad truth, and I hope Nada and MC won't end up regretting their decision.
They are also known to have a beast cs team for close to a decade
They have not really had a 'beast' CS-team since 2005-ish. Sure, their teams have been decent, but never really any superstar teams, until 2011.
Are you serious, while talking this shit? SK had one of the best CS Teams ever and actually they have one of the best. SK had many Superstars in their teams. Fifa Twins hero and styla. Tod, Insomnia, Deadman, Lyn, Remind, many CS stars and more...basically you are talking just sh.t
How is this supporting the western community? I could understand if they would "buy" Morrow or Sjow but Koreans... Dont get me wrong I love MC and Nada but that's just pure desperation by SK in my opinion.
Dont like SK as an organisation, mainly cause of the way that they treated the old CS 1.6 squad... Also they always buy star players insterad of trying to build an own team.
The worst thing is that they will say that SK is winning Sc2 tournaments whenever MC or Nada wins a tournament outside of Korea...
On July 19 2011 16:32 JimmyHollow wrote: How is this supporting the western community? I could understand if they would "buy" Morrow or Sjow but Koreans... Dont get me wrong I love MC and Nada but that's just pure desperation by SK in my opinion.
The goal is to have instant success and brand recognition. Two top players who will represent them in foreign events (IPL when they expand, NASL, MLG, DH, IEM, etc etc) and produce more than likely top caliber results with minimal overhead - they don't have to pay out salaries, they don't have to worry about motivating them to practice to produce, because these are all things that oGs provides. The infrastructure is already established and funded, all they do is pay for plane tickets, hotel rooms and provide a translator.
The more I think about this, the more I feel like this move is going to backfire for SK. Not because MC and NaDa aren't good players, but given their performances in the past few GSLs, and MC's admittance to wanting to stay focused on Korea for a while... how much mileage is SK going to really going to get out of this. Either they force MC and NaDa to play in foreign events and travel more than the two are comfortable with, causing a potential decline in GSL/GSTL performance and oGs then maybe pulls out, or the two don't show their faces that much outside of GSL/GSTL for the next few months and SK gets a bust again.
On July 19 2011 19:49 JoeAWESOME wrote: The worst thing is that they will say that SK is winning Sc2 tournaments whenever MC or Nada wins a tournament outside of Korea...
So you're saying that SK doesn't deserve to be credited with the achievements of two rightfully contracted players?
On July 19 2011 19:49 JoeAWESOME wrote: The worst thing is that they will say that SK is winning Sc2 tournaments whenever MC or Nada wins a tournament outside of Korea...
So you're saying that SK doesn't deserve to be credited with the achievements of two rightfully contracted players?
The problem is that they're getting more credit than oGs.
On July 19 2011 19:49 JoeAWESOME wrote: The worst thing is that they will say that SK is winning Sc2 tournaments whenever MC or Nada wins a tournament outside of Korea...
So you're saying that SK doesn't deserve to be credited with the achievements of two rightfully contracted players?
The problem is that they're getting more credit than oGs.
You guys talk like SK owes you anything. Its their money, they do what they want with it. this is a great thing for them, great for us cause we'll see more excellent players, and great for the western scene by increasing the overall quality of the players.
So please stop with the idiotic comments and enjoy some startcraft
EPT
. Thanks for letting me know. I guess it's big news either way... 
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