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On July 10 2011 02:19 MrCon wrote:Anyway, some "problems" here are very nitpicky. When your solution to a problem is "put more money", you know that your solution is not good (for instance the "you can JUST add 2 booths". This "just" is what, 2000$ ?). There's already a lot of room for improvement with what they already have, asking them to spend more money is not the way to go imo.
I would argue the counter, that throwing money at the problem is one of NASL's biggest issues; from the start the concern has been with the prize pool, with the set, with the equipment, with doing things like they're producing a feature television production and throwing money to clutter up the screen and detract from the thing we want to watch, the games. How many "TaKe where are you" comments do we need to hammer the point home, most people aren't tuning in to see someone take a huge cardboard check, we want to see games.
Where the pendulum swung last night and all of the apologists popped up talking about how the NASL was 'getting its act together,' the one thing* that changed was the length of the games increasing which completely shelved all of the production nonsense in favor of the two best commentators in the game calling SC2 for what seemed like hours on end, which is all most of us were tuning in for in the first place.
Other than Gunrun, thank you Gunrun <3 <3 <3
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I know a lot of the downtime was alotted to projector porblems. But we waited for half an hour between matches looking at the crowed. Also the intro highlight videos seemed to be way too long. GSL has like 1minutes but they just go on forever. Overall I wasnt happy with the production at all but the biggest problem was it was like 30mins of SC per 3-4hours of air time.
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The NASL just swalled more than they can handle. They failed to satisfy the high expectation that came with the incredibly prize money. They would've done better by decreasing the prize money and upping the production value, assuming that the high prize money was not a deal with their sponsors.
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On July 10 2011 01:53 toastnbutter wrote:Here's a response from NASL's reddit account: Show nested quote +I'm sorry guys, Yesterday I was in the dark about what has been going as much as you guys. I am not not at the event and the people I get my information and updates from were busy all day at the event trying to fix things and running the show. Right after the event finished I passed out because I did not get any sleep the night before so I did not get the chance to talk to anyone till this morning.
Basically what happened yesterday is as follows: The night before the event started we were doing some testing and preparing the rightmost projector suffered catastrophic failure and was unusable. We immediately overnight a replacement that arrived first thing in this morning. Installation took extensive time and thus caused a hour delay to the premiere. Additionally, this last minute projector replacement meant we did not have an opportunity to extensively test the projection system. As it turns out, the venue projection fails to hook up to the stream output. As a last minute solution we placed the stream system on follow to the stream observer. There are feedbacks regarding this caused jerky camera motion, so we changed to a dedicated observer for rest of the cast. Throughout the day they also worked with some Justin.TV people(Gunrun and some others) to help optimize the stream quality and to fix the audio.
As for stream and audio interviews, the projectors there were not cooperating very well so there had to be two separate streams, One for the In-house stream and one for the online one. The audio for the in-house stream got fixed and balanced but there is something going on between the upstream and jtv stream which is causing the issues. We think the problem is something about the FMLE not liking using the AAC codec for audio on the stream output which is causing the imbalance. The crew pulled a all nighter to try to fix and improve everything. Hopefully everything will be great today and I will try to keep you guys updated more~
-Ben source: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/ikxvc/nasl_nasl_why_havent_we_heard_from_you/
This is a nonsense excuse. What is "the venue projection fails to hook up to the stream output" supposed to mean? In what way does it "fail"?
There is no technical reason that one observer's PC cannot be used to display the projection as well as the stream.
The issue apparently is that their staff do not understand how to do something like that. It's a problem with staff. They will never fix their problems until they hire some people capable of doing their jobs properly.
They are trying very hard to avoid admitting they--and their hiring decisions--are solely responsible for all the problems.
MLG had the integrity to take responsibility for their human errors and as I understand it people responsible were fired and replaced with people who could do a better job. That is why there was such a big difference in quality between Dallas and Columbus.
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On July 10 2011 02:47 Gurblechev wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 01:53 toastnbutter wrote:Here's a response from NASL's reddit account: I'm sorry guys, Yesterday I was in the dark about what has been going as much as you guys. I am not not at the event and the people I get my information and updates from were busy all day at the event trying to fix things and running the show. Right after the event finished I passed out because I did not get any sleep the night before so I did not get the chance to talk to anyone till this morning.
Basically what happened yesterday is as follows: The night before the event started we were doing some testing and preparing the rightmost projector suffered catastrophic failure and was unusable. We immediately overnight a replacement that arrived first thing in this morning. Installation took extensive time and thus caused a hour delay to the premiere. Additionally, this last minute projector replacement meant we did not have an opportunity to extensively test the projection system. As it turns out, the venue projection fails to hook up to the stream output. As a last minute solution we placed the stream system on follow to the stream observer. There are feedbacks regarding this caused jerky camera motion, so we changed to a dedicated observer for rest of the cast. Throughout the day they also worked with some Justin.TV people(Gunrun and some others) to help optimize the stream quality and to fix the audio.
As for stream and audio interviews, the projectors there were not cooperating very well so there had to be two separate streams, One for the In-house stream and one for the online one. The audio for the in-house stream got fixed and balanced but there is something going on between the upstream and jtv stream which is causing the issues. We think the problem is something about the FMLE not liking using the AAC codec for audio on the stream output which is causing the imbalance. The crew pulled a all nighter to try to fix and improve everything. Hopefully everything will be great today and I will try to keep you guys updated more~
-Ben source: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/ikxvc/nasl_nasl_why_havent_we_heard_from_you/ This is a nonsense excuse. What is "the venue projection fails to hook up to the stream output" supposed to mean? In what way does it "fail"? There is no technical reason that one observer's PC cannot be used to display the projection as well as the stream. The issue apparently is that their staff do not understand how to do something like that. It's a problem with staff. They will never fix their problems until they hire some people capable of doing their jobs properly. They are trying very hard to avoid admitting they--and their hiring decisions--are solely responsible for all the problems. MLG had the integrity to take responsibility for their human errors and as I understand it people responsible were fired and replaced with people who could do a better job. That is why there was such a big difference in quality between Dallas and Columbus.
MLG has always been a great event it was mostly streaming problems holding them back, now that they have the satelite trucks we should hope it stays as great as Columbus was.
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I really just want to see one person from NASL come out and do as Sundance has done and swallow their pride and say 'we screwed up, this is what we're gonna do to make up for it'. That would make me feel like my $25 wasn't wasted. I paid to support the growth of eSports, and so far NASL hasn't grown eSports.
I'm not talking some vague 'next event 3 months from now will be better', either. I'm talking give something back for those who paid for your learning experiences. It's good customer service. And that's what you need to learn, NASL.
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On July 10 2011 02:04 RedDragon571 wrote:
NASL, looks like its failing due to nepotism. These are the type of problems when you hire audio and production people based upon who they know and not what they know. I personally will not be paying for NASL until it gets it act together. This is an embarassment for E-sports and honestly, I think its good for tournaments with poor production to fail. NASL doesn't deserve our wellfare and should go the way of the dodo bird. The idea they can fix these problems and improve is silly, considering the problems are rooted deep in the organization itself. The audio, production and organization are just symptoms of a larger problem. My advice is don't hire your friends, hire your people based upon knowledge and experience.
This is exactly, 100%, the problem with NASL from which all other issues stem.
It's not that they are understaffed or underfunded. They could have hundreds more people working on it and as long as key jobs are held by people incapable of doing them the quality will remain embarrassingly bad.
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I'd also say, a big part of NASL's problem is that we don't know how things work. We don't know who their spokesman is, we don't know who their sound guy is, etc. At MLG they were very open about who did what, and they had multiple staff people active on twitter and TL talking through their issues, struggles, and progress.
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I was frustrated not Just that it was a best of 3 single elim, it is compounded by the fact that the first 2 maps selected were 2 player maps, so the games were less likely to be macro games. I for one would have liked to see more macro games from the players. I couldn't understand why Whoever made the map selection and system of making it rigid 3 maps with no Veto, I dont know what he was thinking..Its almost as if you wanted fast games??
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After the months of tournament, single elimination is the best way to do it, but I do think a bo5 format would be better for both the viewers and the competitors after watching a player progress for months.
Map selection... very strange. I definitely think the next map should always be losers choice.
Seeding the open bracket winner against the #1 seed, also very strange. It would make more sense I think to match the #14 seed against the #1 seed, and the open bracket winner against the #15 seed. The rest gets seeded normally.
The casters are fine, InControl and Gretorp are actually really good casters, in my opinion. I'm not saying they're as good as the others, necessarily, but people bashing on them because of blind fanboyism is stupid.
And as for all the technical issues, none of the other much-touted tournaments started off getting everything perfect, I'm sure. Based on the way NASL has gotten better since Day 1 of the tournament, I think they'll work hard to improve, and NASL 2 and 3 will be amazing.
edit: Oh, I do think keeping people up-to-date on what's happening when there ARE technical difficulties and things is very important, though. When all we can do is sit back and twiddle our thumbs waiting to see what happens, getting a message every 15 minutes or so telling us what's going on does a lot to disrupt any negative feelings.
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Hi NASL -
I have been a paying customer and, more importantly, big fan for the entire season. I was slightly disappointed with the Finals (day one) proceedings. Allow me to elaborate:
- There was way, way too much downtime. Perhaps, moving forward, this could become a two day event? Or a double elim/Bo5?
- The production difficulties were distracting to say the least. Obviously you guys know this but those kinds of things need to be ironed out days ahead of time.
- The player intros are boring, overly long and completely unnecessary. Maybe show them before the Finals but definitely not before every match.
- Might I suggest an interview room or at least an interview "area"? The interviews were ok at best and disasters at worse. It just seemed really awkward up on stage.
On the positive side: amazing games; great casting (when we could hear it); eye-candy.
With some polishing, this could become a premiere event. You have a long way to go though. I'll be back next season with great hopes.
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On July 10 2011 02:38 ninjan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 02:31 Holcan wrote:
Well, in his defense, I'd be aggressive too if I was worried about keeping my job, and was specifically in the public hot seat, even if he isnt the person to blame, he will still be the one to be blamed. That just means you shouldn't be in charge of PR for anything either. That's not how PR works, you can't be aggressive towards your target audience, not even if they're being dicks, and especially not when they have legitimate concerns.
Well that just shows there is an inherent problem with the NASL CEOs decision making capabilities, which is probably that hiring friends is not the best way to provide a quality product.
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On July 10 2011 02:58 IPA wrote:
Hi NASL -
I have been a paying customer and, more importantly, big fan for the entire season. I was slightly disappointed with the Finals (day one) proceedings. Allow me to elaborate:
- There was way, way too much downtime. Perhaps, moving forward, this could become a two day event? Or a double elim/Bo5?
- The production difficulties were distracting to say the least. Obviously you guys know this but those kinds of things need to be ironed out days ahead of time.
- The player intros are boring, overly long and completely unnecessary. Maybe show them before the Finals but definitely not before every match.
- Might I suggest an interview room or at least an interview "area"? The interviews were ok at best and disasters at worse. It just seemed really awkward up on stage.
On the positive side: amazing games; great casting (when we could hear it); eye-candy.
With some polishing, this could become a premiere event. You have a long way to go though. I'll be back next season with great hopes.
Yes Please abolish the overly long intros they are not entertaining and piss you off because you just want to see the content. For an entire day of air time there was not much content... lol
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I will try to give some constructive critisism as well.
Although I have no behind the scene knowledge on NASL and can therefore not base my arguments on solid facts, I will have to rely on feelings intead.
For me, it looks like the biggest problem is that there is no real expertism in the NASL. Pretty much the only faces I know from the NASL are the casters. The main casters being Gretorp and iNcontrol. Altough I love them very much they had no expertise in casting. I think iNcontrol did a few casts and Gretorp had an awesome stream. Even though when they started casting the NASL it felt like they were noobs when it came down to the hardcore casting (no offense). Gretorp himself said multible times that he was learning how to cast on the "fly". Many times they where in situations that would most probably have been handled different by more experient casters. Which isnt weird in any way since you cant expect someone to do everything perfect when he doesnt have the experience.
The point that I am trying to make is that it feels like this isnt only true for the casters. It very much feels like everybody isnt really experienced (with exception of the guy that made the intro's of the players and stuff, NASL does know how to make a spoiler video). And I think that when the NASL would bring in some more experienced people it would all go a lot smoother.
(Also the opening felt like there was no producer, but that has already been coffered)
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I don't think 4 booths are necessary at all. 2 is fine as long as they are big enough. It's not as if they are on a TV schedule like GSL or have 105057 players like MLG.
Just have 2 nice size booths where the players set up their own station during the intros so that as soon as they are done the games can start. As soon as the games send have them take their shit out and get the next grp going.
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Jibba pretty much nailed it, and no i am not saying this just because he is "mod lol", forget that he is a moderator for a second and realize that what he wrote was true
RedDragon571 Is also right, this screams of a situation where friends were hired instead of people who are qualified and have experience for this type of work. It is eerily similar to how the invites to the players were done, Artosis love him like a brother, but should never have gotten a invite (as a player, as a caster he is second to none) and there were topics about this very issue when there was all that drama about it.
Like Jibba wrote, i dont believe NASL is lacking funds or equipment, they lack the people to use this stuff correctly. It is shocking to think that the Jinro vs Idra showmatch is the best production has ever been for them. It definatly has not become better that is for sure.
What i imagine production is like a bunch of 20 something nice guys, friends, who gather up and simply go on google and type "what is the best projector for a live event?", "what is the best soundboard?", "what are the best speakers?" etc etc and they simply just went out and bought all this stuff, it arrived and nobody knew how any of it really worked.
I mean none of that as offense, your reaction to all this is probably the same reaction i, or 99% of us here on TL would have if we got complicated equipment we did not understand.
"eSports" does not happen with sheer will or throwing money at it, it happens when you have qualified people with experience doing their craft.
NASL is like some rich kid who bought the best Logitech mouse, the best Razor headset, the absolute best computer, and came to a tournament in a Armani suit driving a Enzo Ferrari car, flipping Idra and MC off and skateboarding his ass towards the stage with 9 supermodels around him.... despite all this he would still suck and be terrible.
Just like you need qualified and great players for SC2, you also need qualified and experienced people for behind the scenes production.
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Please don't replay these intro videos every single match 
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intros again atm... they're trolling us.
And the sound is still terrible.
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The thing I notice the most is the sound issues, yesterday the sound was too much to the left and sometimes it's too high and sometimes you can barely hear what someone is saying.
Like now when Artosis presented the players you could hear everything that Day9 very clear while the thing you wanted to hear (The presentation of the players, Artosis) was very low and got over shadowed by Day9.
Also now Day9's voice is rly high while Incontrols voice is normal
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On July 10 2011 03:14 JoeAWESOME wrote:
Also now Day9's voice is rly high while Incontrols voice is normal
Day9 is a wonderfully expressive caster and alayst. But he also has room to grow. One of the best things he could do is to learn to control his volume. He can learn to amp the intensity in his voice without raising volume to the point where the sound team has to scramble. This seemed to be a problem for him at Dreamhack too.
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EPT
