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On July 08 2011 01:19 Gamegene wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2011 01:14 Cerneo wrote:
That makes even less sense though because the organizers want higher viewer counts and the way to build that is with drama and hype imo. Wrong. Regardless of whatever convoluted market appeal it has, ALL tournament organizers make it clear in their terms of agreement that participants are not to start talking smack. I don't remember any player being actually fined, but there have been a few cases where a player was barred from competing from excessive BM. It's just rather silly thinking that they're going to encourage that shit.
Then why did MLG have a video of the Idra/MC showdown on a vod moments after it went down?
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On July 08 2011 01:03 Pants10 wrote:
What about sports where BM is a major selling point, like hockey?
It depends I guess. I don't think esports is in that position though. Some of the SC2 BM has been pretty funny though. And none of it IMO is worth groaning over. You should see some of the stuff in other competitive games. It makes you feel embarrassed.
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On July 08 2011 01:10 mki wrote:
Read the last line guys - my plea is more to event organizers than to the players. I'm sure that even with fines and rules in place that BM will continue - AND THAT'S OK! But organizers should enforce their rules and fine players just to keep the public image up.
Sure the NHL allows BM, however they do fine their players when things get out of hand. And look - emotion has not disappeared, players continue to do it.
You're pretty delusional.
The average NBA player (including the guys who dont play and sit on the bench rubbing one out all day) make $92,199 a week. When they get fined $20,000 which is roughly one days work do you think they really give a fuck? That scene they just made put them on the front page of the paper and/or got their name out there more. $20,000 was effectively their marketing fee and if you know anything about advertising, that's pretty cheap.
They make (on average) almost as much as I do in a year in a single week. When you're pulling 4.8 million a year a $20,000 fine is like joe schmoe with a $100k salary being fined $400.
You seem to think SC2 players make a decent amount of money which is simply not true in the current state of the game. MOST players who play sc2 make ZERO (0) income off of it because in order to get paid you need to place in the money spots... Those who do place in money can be seen in the Tournament Roundup and I'm not sure where a total prize winnings are, but I'd be surprised to see anyone over $120k.
2nd source is an article saying that the fines in the NBA don't do shit because even a big fine of $100k is < 1/250th of the players total salary just from playing the game. This doesn't include endorsements and advertising and whatever else they might be working on. Trying to compare an established sport to sc2 is pretty dumb.
SOURCES
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/NBA-leads-world-in-average-player-salary-042211
http://www.fullcourtpest.com/2011/04/slap-on-wrist-why-nba-cant-control-its.html
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On July 08 2011 01:29 starcraft911 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2011 01:10 mki wrote:
Read the last line guys - my plea is more to event organizers than to the players. I'm sure that even with fines and rules in place that BM will continue - AND THAT'S OK! But organizers should enforce their rules and fine players just to keep the public image up.
Sure the NHL allows BM, however they do fine their players when things get out of hand. And look - emotion has not disappeared, players continue to do it. You're pretty delusional. The average NBA player (including the guys who dont play and sit on the bench rubbing one out all day) make $92,199 a week. When they get fined $20,000 which is roughly one days work do you think they really give a fuck? That scene they just made put them on the front page of the paper and/or got their name out there more. $20,000 was effectively their marketing fee and if you know anything about advertising, that's pretty cheap. They make (on average) almost as much as I do in a year in a single week. When you're pulling 4.8 million a year a $20,000 fine is like joe schmoe with a $100k salary being fined $400. You seem to think SC2 players make a decent amount of money which is simply not true in the current state of the game. MOST players who play sc2 make ZERO (0) income off of it because in order to get paid you need to place in the money spots... Those who do place in money can be seen in the Tournament Roundup and I'm not sure where a total prize winnings are, but I'd be surprised to see anyone over $120k. 2nd source is an article saying that the fines in the NBA don't do shit because even a big fine of $100k is < 1/250th of the players total salary just from playing the game. This doesn't include endorsements and advertising and whatever else they might be working on. Trying to compare an established sport to sc2 is pretty dumb. SOURCES http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/NBA-leads-world-in-average-player-salary-042211http://www.fullcourtpest.com/2011/04/slap-on-wrist-why-nba-cant-control-its.html
The only place I talked about specific figures was with Counter-Strike 1.6.
I never talked about how much SC2 players should be fined for BM so I don't know where you assume I think that SC2 players make a "decent amount of money". But congratulations on passing your reading comprehension test. Having said this:
Pro SC2 players should still be fined a certain fee (I don't know what it should be) from time to time for public BM.
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The bit about the contracts was interesting. That's the kind of professionalism I am interested in.
The bit about how BM is ruining ESPORTS, though...nah. Drama creates interest, IdrA telling HuK to fuck off (and HuK even messaging him was against the rules and pretty bm itself) is not going to dissuade any potential fans. There's no one we have to prove ourselves to, we don't have to become boring fucks to be mainstream.
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I can't see how some relatively harmless BM is going to seriously hinder e-sports in general. I can't imagine a bunch of corporate big-wigs sitting around deciding if they want to sponsor EG, and one guy says "remember he said 'fuck off' that one time?" And everyone gasps, faints, jumps out windows, and ultimately decide not to sponsor the team.
Players like IdrA bring a lot of polarization to the scene, which generates content and attention for the scene, which is what sponsors love. Bad language isn't going to delegitimize the scene, but I can see cracking down and punishing players making some scenes too stiff. The leading reason why people liked the Homestory Cup (according to the TL poll) was because of the casual environment. If, at an MLG, some official came up to IdrA and wagged a finger at him after he flipped off MC, that would make a lot of people uncomfortable and ruin a great moment in the sport.
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On July 08 2011 00:08 mki wrote:To grant kudo's where they are deserved it should be noted that the Electronic Sports League has fined teams in the past for delaying events. Recently, in the last season of the Intel Extreme Masters, Ukrainian side Natus Vincere was fined 20% from their overall prize winnings for being late to a match. Although this definitely sent a message, it needs to be done consistently rather than to just one team. The rule needs to become an enforced rule on a regular basis, rather than one episode of punishments. Although an article, this is also a plea to event organizers and organizations like to modify some rules and regulations to help the growth of electronic sports. A fine on a to player might be negative in the short term, however in the long term it will build a more professional world for all of electronic sports. We're all in this together, and it is in the best interest of all of us for event organizers and organizations which support teams to encourage positive action. + Show Spoiler +
Yea, kudo's to the organization that kicked out Naniwa for being late to games and turned around and changed rules to be able to get TLO to play.
ESL is not the best example, they just focus on minor things.
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On July 08 2011 01:19 mki wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2011 01:17 Cerneo wrote:On July 08 2011 01:15 mki wrote:Look at GSL Look at GSL for what? Complete ban on talking and somehow it works and is one of the most watched.
It's like saying that sex with a condom feels good, but sex without a condom feels better.
GSL's success is entirely due to them having the best player pool bar none. When players like MC have done throat cuts and breaking things over his knee it charged the crowd and people became a fan of his. Nestea and MC both have the same amount of GSL wins but MC has way more fans because he plays to them.
Nestea... sex with condom
MC... sex without condom
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professionalism sucks, is no fun, and is not what most people that like esports care about
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I pretty much agree with this writeup.
If we want esports to be taken seriously, we can't have people telling each other to fuck off in game chat. It's fine when it's such a selective niche market, but if/when it goes mainstream, it will suddenly not be tolerable.
You can argue all day with whether or not you think swear words are bad or whether or not drama is fun. I happen to enjoy them both quite a bit.
But that doesn't blind me to the fact that while I appreciate the lulz in these things, the real world does not.
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People like IdrA are why ESPORTS have a reputation of only being for angry nerds.. Lets face it, if we want SC2 to grow and be mainstream, we need to attract the real sponsors! Not the companies selling keyboards and whatnot under the assumption that we're all nerds who need to shell out money for their junk.
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On July 08 2011 01:34 Fiendish wrote:
professionalism sucks, is no fun, and is not what most people that like esports care about
Statements like this really make me sad about the overall maturity of our community.
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I for one don't think becoming like the NFL should be the goal for the foreseeable future...the NFL had some intense growing pains before it became the pathetic prima donna league it is now (albeit profitable).
Esports will go through the same thing. You cannot hinder the scene by erasing its most marketable asset...the players' personalities. Handicapping the biggest draw would be BAD BUSINESS. Once Esports is raking in millions and families are starting to watch it on TV, then yea, a filter should be put in place. Until then, don't stunt it's growth with all the PCness.
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On July 08 2011 01:26 Cerneo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2011 01:19 Gamegene wrote:On July 08 2011 01:14 Cerneo wrote:
That makes even less sense though because the organizers want higher viewer counts and the way to build that is with drama and hype imo. Wrong. Regardless of whatever convoluted market appeal it has, ALL tournament organizers make it clear in their terms of agreement that participants are not to start talking smack. I don't remember any player being actually fined, but there have been a few cases where a player was barred from competing from excessive BM. It's just rather silly thinking that they're going to encourage that shit. Then why did MLG have a video of the Idra/MC showdown on a vod moments after it went down?
Because most people wouldn't consider that BM? Just some grandstanding. Some butthurt Idra fans would say it's BM, because he did the throat-slash-thumbs-down-"you're going down next, bro" gestures.
On July 08 2011 01:29 starcraft911 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2011 01:10 mki wrote:
Read the last line guys - my plea is more to event organizers than to the players. I'm sure that even with fines and rules in place that BM will continue - AND THAT'S OK! But organizers should enforce their rules and fine players just to keep the public image up.
Sure the NHL allows BM, however they do fine their players when things get out of hand. And look - emotion has not disappeared, players continue to do it. You're pretty delusional. The average NBA player (including the guys who dont play and sit on the bench rubbing one out all day) make $92,199 a week. When they get fined $20,000 which is roughly one days work do you think they really give a fuck? That scene they just made put them on the front page of the paper and/or got their name out there more. $20,000 was effectively their marketing fee and if you know anything about advertising, that's pretty cheap. They make (on average) almost as much as I do in a year in a single week. When you're pulling 4.8 million a year a $20,000 fine is like joe schmoe with a $100k salary being fined $400. You seem to think SC2 players make a decent amount of money which is simply not true in the current state of the game. MOST players who play sc2 make ZERO (0) income off of it because in order to get paid you need to place in the money spots... Those who do place in money can be seen in the Tournament Roundup and I'm not sure where a total prize winnings are, but I'd be surprised to see anyone over $120k. 2nd source is an article saying that the fines in the NBA don't do shit because even a big fine of $100k is < 1/250th of the players total salary just from playing the game. This doesn't include endorsements and advertising and whatever else they might be working on. Trying to compare an established sport to sc2 is pretty dumb. SOURCES http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/NBA-leads-world-in-average-player-salary-042211http://www.fullcourtpest.com/2011/04/slap-on-wrist-why-nba-cant-control-its.html
You're pretty delusional to think players/people like throwing money down the drain in any % of their income. No one likes a $400 dollar speeding ticket no matter how much you make.
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i like the drama. Don't change it.
im sorry if the F word offends people but. I guess there balls are just gonna have to drop a bit more and take it like a man.
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On July 08 2011 01:35 mki wrote:
Statements like this really make me sad about the overall maturity of our community.
"OMG. I don't like this. Everyone must not like this. If people in E-Sports are like that, EVERYONE WILL NOT LIKE E-SPORTS. MUST. WRITE. ARTICLE. NOW. And save E-SPORTS!"
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On July 08 2011 01:38 Gamegene wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2011 01:35 mki wrote:
Statements like this really make me sad about the overall maturity of our community. "OMG. I don't like this. Everyone must not like this. If people in E-Sports are like that, EVERYONE WILL NOT LIKE E-SPORTS. MUST. WRITE. ARTICLE. NOW. And save E-SPORTS!"
Exactly my point.
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On July 08 2011 01:37 VPCursed wrote:
i like the drama. Don't change it.
im sorry if the F word offends people but. I guess there balls are just gonna have to drop a bit more and take it like a man.
People should stop being offended by Forcefields, they are here to stay.
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On July 08 2011 01:39 mki wrote:
Exactly my point.
Then you're just blowing steam at nothing.
We might have a problem if church nuns and our mothers ever become the core demographic, but as it stands most gamers don't really give a shit about that.
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On July 08 2011 01:36 Ownos wrote:Because most people wouldn't consider that BM? Just some grandstanding. Some butthurt Idra fans would say it's BM, because he did the throat-slash-thumbs-down-"you're going down next, bro" gestures.
Was talking about Idra then giving him the finger.
Whatever the case, thats equally BM and imo, does nothing but add emotion and hype to the games and get the fans/casters fired up and thats a good thing.
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EPT
