On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
Public opinion means absolutely nothing for the rules of this Season of the NASL, the rules that were made at the start of the tournament should remain for the duration of the tournament, end of.
I get that a lot of people want to see Naniwa qualify but he had his chance twice and he lost.
Alive (who is a better player than Naniwa anyway) got second in the qualifier, and the rules state that second in the qualifier is first reserve for drop outs.
If they want to change that rule for the next tournament then fine but for this tournament Alive should 100% take Strelok's positions as those are the rules.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
I'm not a robot.
If you are basically saying that you guys do respond emotionally since you are human, the point people are making is that as an organization, you should try to control or overlook those emotions.
First of all: why? My emotional response has absolutely nothing to do with my professionalism, work ethic, or decision making in an official capacity. If Naniwa wants to act like he can do whatever he wants, publicly denounce our league and talk about how he hates playing in it... why should I bother to give him any courtesy? I'll even tell him to his face, and he'd do the same to me.
At the end of the day, I didn't sit there and say "fuck that guy I'm gonna ban him from NASL cuz of what he said," our rules were very clear about our policies.
Well if you are saying that it wouldn't get in the way of an actual decision then I don't have a problem with it, but I don't see why you would mention it.
Regardless, Naniwa was clearly not a candidate based on the rules, so it's not like it matters. It would be great to get an explanation for why the VISA problems weren't handled initially, especially since it came up as an issue earlier.
And one thing I feel the need to make clear, I am not in this thread to bash or hate on the NASL. I watched many broadcasts and I will watch the finals, and I think many people are in the same situation as me when they simply want to criticize some of the decisions. I guess this is directed more at people who think people come to this thread just to say how much they hate the NASL. I'm sure some do that, but I'm also sure others are simply critiquing the league, especially so things can hopefully go more smoothly next season.
I'm not going to censor myself on the forums. I've been posting here at TL since 2005 and I'm not going to change my personality. TL is the place where I post as a person. When I make an official post as an OP, I behave differently. Maybe I should make a XERIS-OFFICIAL TL account to make all my official posts if it'd make you happy.
I still don't get your post. I've explained 10 times that: White-Ra and BRAT_OK were accepted because they demonstrated ability to go to the US // have a VISA. We made ONE exception to add Strelok because his former team (Mouz) assured us they were working on getting him a VISA and that he would have one for sure by the end of the season. We were in contact with Strelok immediately after his Top 2 position was guaranteed.
We tried everything in our power to get his interview date changed to an earlier time, but we couldn't get it done in the end and he couldn't get a VISA in time.
I actually think having a NASL-Offical account would be a very good solution. The problem is that it is very hard to distinguish your opinions and NASL-official statements when you use one account to post both. I think it would add some more professionalism. While I totally understand that you don't want to censor yourself, I think a different attitude is needed when you represent a whole organization with your statements than when you just represent yourself.
On topic: Shame for Strelok, but I kind of agree with the rest that the visa issue should have been resolved earlier. I don't understand why mouz didn't just get him a Visa anyways? As for the choice of aLive, that was in the rules so nobody can really complain. Maybe the rules should be changed for next season, but that is for NASL to decide.
Overall I think NASL has had a bumpy start and there are still a lot of things that can be improved, but I am still very happy and grateful that a league of this caliber has been started and I think that people should stop blindly bashing it. What good does that do? It is a great thing for ESPORTS. Constructive criticism is needed ofc, and so far NASL has done a great job of improving. I certainly didn't regret buying a season ticket
On July 03 2011 01:21 amazingoopah wrote: don't want to be a jerk by asking this, but why was the runner up of the open tournament selected, shouldn't the player with the best regular season record not in the playoffs have gotten first dibs on the open slot?
One reason was that pretty early it was in the rules that the runner up of the open tournament would get a 500 dollar travel stipend to the finals as a reserve.
Why are people calling the NASL petty.... Even if Xeris said what he said, its true... Its true with professional sports as well... If a player talks bad about the franchise/organization, you better believe they will get rid of that player as quick as possible. Its just common sense. Why would they invite a guy who publicly stated he is glad he is done with the NASL?
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
What's the point of writing up rules if you're going to change them in the middle of an event whenever people bitch about them? They had clear guidelines written down beforehand as to what would happen in this scenario and they followed those guidelines. People obviously didn't bitch about it back then, but suddenly now that Naniwa comes out and says something, everyone's all up in NASL's face about it after the fact. There's no need for a poll and having one wouldn't resolve anything as people would still bitch and whine about whatever is decided. Public opinion is fine for some things, but in this case it's just plain pointless.
Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
This is the reason I don't watch NASL, you're a joke as an organization.
Name me an organization that says "Oh gee willikers, thanks for calling me the scum of the earth! Here, have some money!"
I'm done with this thread. Teamliquid has turned into a bubbling cauldron of hatred lately, so I guess I need to take a break from these forums.
Have you read the GOMTV statement about banning Rain? Proffesional, respectful. You won't see them going 'the Rain is a toolbag, he won't ever be able to play in our league, bla bla...'
Pretty sure that his comment wasn't an official statement, but was him posting on a community forum.
The person you quoted has it 100% correct. TL has turned into a trash pit with how much trolling and hate goes on lately.
Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
This is the reason I don't watch NASL, you're a joke as an organization.
Name me an organization that says "Oh gee willikers, thanks for calling me the scum of the earth! Here, have some money!"
I'm done with this thread. Teamliquid has turned into a bubbling cauldron of hatred lately, so I guess I need to take a break from these forums.
Have you read the GOMTV statement about banning Rain? Proffesional, respectful. You won't see them going 'the Rain is a toolbag, he won't ever be able to play in our league, bla bla...'
You are so wrong here. These 2 situation are not the same. For NASL, the player bad-mouting them, somewhat insulted the league. In any SPORTS, make it football(soccer), basket ball..etc, most athelics or people that involved in the league that insulted or say harsh things about the hosting organization will get a fine or even ban for matches.
This is true. Ryan Babel of the epl recently was fined for insulting a ref over twitter.
I think Xeris need to edit the OP and save himself and NASL some problems in explain the rule over and over again. And it seems, when a known player post, most people will immediately jump in with him. Great player Naniwa, but need some attitude fix.
On July 03 2011 02:42 Ansalem wrote: The posts in this thread want me to tear my hair out. The fact that the runner up from the Open is the backup player has been posted over and over yet every page there's another bandwagoner who can't read more than two posts without going and posting 'Naniwa was robbed!' The NASL hate is getting old. It's very unfortunate Strelok can't go. I love his interviews. It's clear that NASL worked really hard to get him here. Alive was invited via the rules. Get over it. I'm going to go do some deep breathing. -.-
I agree with most of that, but Xeris invited much of the criticism.
Had he just pointed out that it was the rule from the beginning and left it at that, then we wouldn't be seeing many of these posts hating on the NASL. He says that he doesn't want to "censor" his opinions while posting on the forums, and I can respect that. However, it's obviously going to result in people forming their own opinions based on what he writes, and some of them are inevitably going to be negative.
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
Public opinion means absolutely nothing for the rules of this Season of the NASL, the rules that were made at the start of the tournament should remain for the duration of the tournament, end of.
I get that a lot of people want to see Naniwa qualify but he had his chance twice and he lost.
Alive (who is a better player than Naniwa anyway) got second in the qualifier, and the rules state that second in the qualifier is first reserve for drop outs.
If they want to change that rule for the next tournament then fine but for this tournament Alive should 100% take Strelok's positions as those are the rules.
I'm not sure how mmdmmd meant his post, but making a poll just to gauge the public opinion isn't a bad move (along the lines off "for next season, how should backup players be chosen?"). I agree that you shouldn't existing rules for THIS tournament, but maybe get ideas for next season?
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
Public opinion means absolutely nothing for the rules of this Season of the NASL, the rules that were made at the start of the tournament should remain for the duration of the tournament, end of.
I get that a lot of people want to see Naniwa qualify but he had his chance twice and he lost.
Alive (who is a better player than Naniwa anyway) got second in the qualifier, and the rules state that second in the qualifier is first reserve for drop outs.
If they want to change that rule for the next tournament then fine but for this tournament Alive should 100% take Strelok's positions as those are the rules.
I'm not sure how mmdmmd meant his post, but making a poll just to gauge the public opinion isn't a bad move (along the lines off "for next season, how should backup players be chosen?"). I agree that you shouldn't existing rules for THIS tournament, but maybe get ideas for next season?
People are only whining because it's Naniwa. If Naniwa was second in the open tournament and Alive third in his group people would whine that Naniwa should qualify.
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
What's the point of writing up rules if you're going to change them in the middle of an event whenever people bitch about them? They had clear guidelines written down beforehand as to what would happen in this scenario and they followed those guidelines. People obviously didn't bitch about it back then, but suddenly now that Naniwa comes out and says something, everyone's all up in NASL's face about it after the fact. There's no need for a poll and having one wouldn't resolve anything as people would still bitch and whine about whatever is decided. Public opinion is fine for some things, but in this case it's just plain pointless.
I don't want to go in to details of the importance of public opinions in any organisation/business model(especially when you are a start up). I have only one thing to say: Most of the customer never complain, they just walk away.
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
What's the point of writing up rules if you're going to change them in the middle of an event whenever people bitch about them? They had clear guidelines written down beforehand as to what would happen in this scenario and they followed those guidelines. People obviously didn't bitch about it back then, but suddenly now that Naniwa comes out and says something, everyone's all up in NASL's face about it after the fact. There's no need for a poll and having one wouldn't resolve anything as people would still bitch and whine about whatever is decided. Public opinion is fine for some things, but in this case it's just plain pointless.
I don't want to go in to details of the importance of public opinions in any organisation/business model(especially when you are a start up). I have only one thing to say: Most of the customer never complain, they just walk away.
Please justify how NASL should change their rules at the last minute to allow Naniwa in, how is that fair?
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
What's the point of writing up rules if you're going to change them in the middle of an event whenever people bitch about them? They had clear guidelines written down beforehand as to what would happen in this scenario and they followed those guidelines. People obviously didn't bitch about it back then, but suddenly now that Naniwa comes out and says something, everyone's all up in NASL's face about it after the fact. There's no need for a poll and having one wouldn't resolve anything as people would still bitch and whine about whatever is decided. Public opinion is fine for some things, but in this case it's just plain pointless.
I don't want to go in to details of the importance of public opinions in any organisation/business model(especially when you are a start up). I have only one thing to say: Most of the customer never complain, they just walk away.
Please justify how NASL should change their rules at the last minute to allow Naniwa in, how is that fair?
Let's work on this "after" we see what the majority want.
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
What's the point of writing up rules if you're going to change them in the middle of an event whenever people bitch about them? They had clear guidelines written down beforehand as to what would happen in this scenario and they followed those guidelines. People obviously didn't bitch about it back then, but suddenly now that Naniwa comes out and says something, everyone's all up in NASL's face about it after the fact. There's no need for a poll and having one wouldn't resolve anything as people would still bitch and whine about whatever is decided. Public opinion is fine for some things, but in this case it's just plain pointless.
I don't want to go in to details of the importance of public opinions in any organisation/business model(especially when you are a start up). I have only one thing to say: Most of the customer never complain, they just walk away.
Please justify how NASL should change their rules at the last minute to allow Naniwa in, how is that fair?
Let's work on this "after" we see what the majority want.
So basically tournaments should change their rules and structure mid tournament because people don't like it?
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
What's the point of writing up rules if you're going to change them in the middle of an event whenever people bitch about them? They had clear guidelines written down beforehand as to what would happen in this scenario and they followed those guidelines. People obviously didn't bitch about it back then, but suddenly now that Naniwa comes out and says something, everyone's all up in NASL's face about it after the fact. There's no need for a poll and having one wouldn't resolve anything as people would still bitch and whine about whatever is decided. Public opinion is fine for some things, but in this case it's just plain pointless.
I don't want to go in to details of the importance of public opinions in any organisation/business model(especially when you are a start up). I have only one thing to say: Most of the customer never complain, they just walk away.
Please justify how NASL should change their rules at the last minute to allow Naniwa in, how is that fair?
Let's work on this "after" we see what the majority want.
Um, no. Let's follow the rules and allow the player that rightfully replaced Strelok to attend the finals without complaining about it.
EPT
