aLive replaces Strelok... to attend NASL Grand Finals
It is with heavy hearts that we announce today that unfortunately, Strelok was unable to receive a VISA in time to attend the NASL Grand Finals. We have been trying valiantly, along with Strelok for several weeks to get him a VISA faster so he could attend the event. We tried Blizzard and other big corporations to see if they could pressure the embassy to take action faster, we had a letter sent from an Ontario, CA congressman to the embassy on behalf of Strelok. Today however, we were informed that Strelok was unable to change the date of his appointment and can’t get a VISA in time to attend.
Due to this we needed a player to replace Strelok. Our Open Tournament runner up (TSL_aLive) was the first choice. After contacting their team manager, we confirmed aLive’s participation in the NASL Grand Finals, and are happy to announce that he will be attending!
Guy's a professional Starcraft player who knows there's things like international events. I really can't believe he let this happen. Plan ahead anyone?
Good to see aLive attending though, another big name.
I'm going to go back and watch Strelok's hilarious NASL interviews in his honour.
On July 03 2011 01:09 Jakkerr wrote: I have no idea how this works. But why is Alive able to get a visa on a shorter notice then Strelok?
Pretty sad for Strelok hope he does well in season 2.
Trying not to paint a whole region with a brush here, but there's been numerous problems with players from the Ex-USSR - Eastern European countries like Ukraine, Russia, Belarus - attaining visas and getting to international events in the past.
Strelok nooooo! that really sucks, but what can you do if the embassy won't give him a visa though?
I thought all the players were supposed to prove they could attend the finals before the season applications went through? must not have been verified correctly then I guess...
On July 03 2011 01:08 tsuxiit wrote: That blows. I thought a requirement to entering the tournament was actually having a valid visa?
As we said at the start of the season, Strelok was the 'risk' player we accepted, because his team Mouz assured us that he could get a VISA on time.
Obviously, this is exactly the reason we had this rule, so now all the people complaining why we didn't invite certain players know why >_>! It's obviously very frustrating for us because we put about 30 hours of work preparing material for Strelok and now it's gone to waste, and we might not have time to prepare stuff for aLive. It's really frustrating for Strelok as well because he tried everything he could to get the VISA. Also sucks for DarkForcE for obvious reasons. It just sucks for everyone except aLive, great for him! =D
Well. Personally i find it to be Streloks fault. Your participating in International Tournaments, that may very well require you to travel. He should have applied for his Visa ages ago.
On July 03 2011 01:08 tsuxiit wrote: That blows. I thought a requirement to entering the tournament was actually having a valid visa?
As we said at the start of the season, Strelok was the 'risk' player we accepted, because his team Mouz assured us that he could get a VISA on time.
Obviously, this is exactly the reason we had this rule, so now all the people complaining why we didn't invite certain players know why >_>! It's obviously very frustrating for us because we put about 30 hours of work preparing material for Strelok and now it's gone to waste, and we might not have time to prepare stuff for aLive. It's really frustrating for Strelok as well because he tried everything he could to get the VISA. Also sucks for DarkForcE for obvious reasons. It just sucks for everyone except aLive, great for him! =D
I was one of the detractors for that decision because I didn't expect these problems to persist in 2011 - looks like your cautious approach was right after all, in hindsight.
wouldnt it be fairer to invite one of the regular season participants to enter the finale instead of the open tournament runner up? coz this seems like youre putting a premium on a 6 day knockout tournament over a 2 month one which was supposed to be the main qualifier for this finale.
Edit:
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
well, I think it is reasonable to demand a clarification from Strelok himself, sure, it sucks for him the most, but if I know that there might be the need of a VISA, then I am going to apply for one way ahead...
This is sad news, I didn't watch much of Streloks matches in the NASL but I know he done really well. Also sucks for NASL and how much effort they put into trying to get him a visa. Least its good news they've already found their replacement and hopefully nothing else will happen.
Glad NASL has the foresight of putting the backup player clause in the nasl open tourney. Too bad for Strelok, he was the european I rooted for the most throughout the season. He's the one player I could count on to not take this tourney lightly and see it as an platform to prove himself, rather than a week chore.
On July 03 2011 01:13 SimDawg wrote: Pretty crappy by Mousesports to assure you he could get a visa and then not deliver. I thought these were supposed to be professional businesses?
Eastern European players in the former soviet bloc, like Strelok, have always had outstanding issues getting visas for international events. In no way is this mouz's fault. Blame the overwhelming bureaucracy.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
I agree with Naniwa. It would make more sense if Alive replaced the open bracket winner who couldn't come but not if a player from the group stage can't make it when a player from the group can.
On July 03 2011 01:09 Jakkerr wrote: I have no idea how this works. But why is Alive able to get a visa on a shorter notice then Strelok?
Pretty sad for Strelok hope he does well in season 2.
Trying not to paint a whole region with a brush here, but there's been numerous problems with players from the Ex-USSR - Eastern European countries like Ukraine, Russia, Belarus - attaining visas and getting to international events in the past.
It honestly shouldn't have to happen these days.
Visa requirements for eastern european countries are stricter due to economic reasons, another victory for bureaucracy The embassies of EU countries are not any less strict in that regard.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
^--- quite true, and i guess this will be another reason why u wont be back for season 2.
how long do these visas last, like a couple of days? if it lasts for like 6 month+, why cant strelok just get one to have one, so this shit doesnt happen
don't want to be a jerk by asking this, but why was the runner up of the open tournament selected, shouldn't the player with the best regular season record not in the playoffs have gotten first dibs on the open slot?
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
I agree with Naniwa. It would make more sense if Alive replaced the open bracket winner who couldn't come but not if a player from the group stage can't make it when a player from the group can.
I would guess it is because players from the groups that were not 1st and 2nd also played playoffs for a possibility to attend grand finals. Using one of them would basically invalidate the playoffs they played.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
I think your burned your bridges there =p
well they could at least have some sort of last minute playoff thing where the 3rd place for all the groups play bo3s till they find a winner, i mean they dont even have to cast it if its too much of a hassle
at the start of NASL they hyped the main tournament of 50 people so much and in the end 2 from the last 16 arent even gonna be from the main tourney
I mean at least put Ace into the final if they dont want too much of a hassle, he has the best record among those who didnt make the playoffs
I actually agree with naniwa too that a group player should replace strelok. Wouldn't surprise me if that was nasl's plan at first then saw the player it would be, saw that it was naniwa, remembered all his nasl bashing and went.....nah let's invite alive instead, lol.
Wow! Such a great shame for Strelok. I feel so sorry for the guy. He was so psyched and singularly focused on the NASL. He'd have been training so hard and now his efforts have been shut down. feelsbadman. Goodluck aLive but man, I feel so bad for Strelok.
Poor naniwa... I think you deserve the spot. No offense to aLive, but like someone else said, the NASL season should come ahead of the Open Tournament.
The person on 3rd place should take over. This is THE option to pick in a situation like this. It's been done before, and the public generally accept this. Whoever decided the aLive thing needs to seriously reconsider.
On July 03 2011 01:06 Xeris wrote: We tried Blizzard and other big corporations to see if they could pressure the embassy to take action faster, we had a letter sent from an Ontario, CA congressman to the embassy on behalf of Strelok.
Props to NASL for doing everything in their power!
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
I agree with Naniwa. It would make more sense if Alive replaced the open bracket winner who couldn't come but not if a player from the group stage can't make it when a player from the group can.
It's listed in the NASL Open rules that the runner-up is invited as a back-up player, here.
What's at stake The winner of the tournament will receive a $500 travel stipend and a spot at the Grand Finals July 8-10 in Ontario, California.
The second place finisher will receive a $500 travel stipend should he/she choose to attend the Grand Finals, and will be listed as a backup player.
The Top 8 finishers will qualify for Season 2 of the North American Star League.
NaNiwa had two chances for earning a grand finales spot. He did not played his best in the NASL playoffs and missed Top2 spot partially due to an early season w/o, so he had no one to blame for missing out but himself.
Props to NASL for trying their hardest to get Strelok in. But it would make more sense to take the best scoring player that didn't qualify or the person who got third in the group..... Not someone from the Qualifiers...
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
I think your burned your bridges there =p
well they could at least have some sort of last minute playoff thing where the 3rd place for all the groups play bo3s till they find a winner, i mean they dont even have to cast it if its too much of a hassle
at the start of NASL they hyped the main tournament of 50 people so much and in the end 2 from the last 16 arent even gonna be from the main tourney
I mean at least put Ace into the final if they dont want too much of a hassle, he has the best record among those who didnt make the playoffs
Maybe nothing to do with anything but when did Ace switch to zerg from protoss lol?!?
Anyway, I'm curious what the responses are for not letting Naniwa play.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
Second that. I feel Naniwa deserves the spot alot more than aLive, since he played for nearly 3 months in the NASL and proved in the past that he is a top competitor too. Also I feel that its way too easy for most of the Koreans to get into lucrative tournament spots. Compare that to the qualification process for GSL as a foreigner... Koreans just get invited and can take loads of money home oO
Wasn't part of the NASL selection criteria being able to travel to America? Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember Nightend being excluded from entering NASL due to visa issues. It seems rather ludicrous that this wasn't dealt with sooner. Although I'm rather clueless as to the timelines and intricacies of the visa problems, so I'd certainly change that opinion if it turns out this coudn't have been handled better by Strelok or NASL.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
I agree with Naniwa. It would make more sense if Alive replaced the open bracket winner who couldn't come but not if a player from the group stage can't make it when a player from the group can.
It's listed in the NASL Open rules that the runner-up is invited as a back-up player, here.
What's at stake The winner of the tournament will receive a $500 travel stipend and a spot at the Grand Finals July 8-10 in Ontario, California.
The second place finisher will receive a $500 travel stipend should he/she choose to attend the Grand Finals, and will be listed as a backup player.
The Top 8 finishers will qualify for Season 2 of the North American Star League.
NaNiwa had two chances for earning a grand finales spot. He did not played his best in the NASL playoffs and missed Top2 spot partially due to an early season w/o, so he had no one to blame for missing out but himself.
i would assume that the rule for the backup player would be in case the open tournament winner couldnt make it to the grand finals
It has been in the rules since before even the first NASL match was played, that the runner up in the open tournament would be invited as a replacement for anyone not showing up in the grand finals.
Noone has been complaining about it, so I think you can ditch your "anti-Naniwa" theories. He was never in contention for the spot.
I would personally have loved to see Naniwa in the grand finals though as he is probally my favorite non-korean player, but rules are rules, and the rule was made before the tournament even began, so there ya go folks. Nothing to see here, move along.
On July 03 2011 01:09 Jakkerr wrote: I have no idea how this works. But why is Alive able to get a visa on a shorter notice then Strelok?
Pretty sad for Strelok hope he does well in season 2.
How fast you get your Visa is entirely based upon which country you are coming from and which country you are going to. The more animosity between the two countries, the more bullshit there will be in the process.
And the USA Visa offices are notoriously well known for being complete, raving douchebags on a regular basis. I have several friends who have had to deal with immigration woes and some of the stories are completely ridiculous.
I feel bad for Strelok, and sorry that my country is doing this to him.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
I second this! Pretty obvious to take people from the groups instead imo.
No it's not. What the hell were the playoffs for then? You can't just give nr3 in the group the slot when he lost in the playoffs to people who legitimately qualified. Stop agreeing just because it's Naniwa who's posting. Also the rules have always been pretty clear on that matter.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
^--- quite true, and i guess this will be another reason why u wont be back for season 2.
how long do these visas last, like a couple of days? if it lasts for like 6 month+, why cant strelok just get one to have one, so this shit doesnt happen
The B1/B2 visa for business or travel last 10 years (maximum) for Thai people. Don't know how long it will be for Ukrainian, though, but I think normally a person could at least get a 12 months visa.
Sad for Strelok though but it's hard to go and apply for visa without valid reasons. So I guess he had to wait until he was sure that he qualified for the grand final, so the interviewer would not reject him.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
On July 03 2011 01:37 ChickenLips wrote: I think everyone is waiting for Xeris' response as to why NASL went to the trouble of contacting a Korean team manager for a replacement when the next-in-line should obviously be Nani, since he came 3rd in his group.
Seems pretty petty to not invite him because he said "finally done with NASL" before gging out of his most recent NASL game.
Sign... People don't even bother to flip back a page.
This is because Alive is the NASL Open runner up. It's listed in the NASL Open rules that the runner-up is invited as a back-up player in the grand finals, here.
What's at stake The winner of the tournament will receive a $500 travel stipend and a spot at the Grand Finals July 8-10 in Ontario, California.
The second place finisher will receive a $500 travel stipend should he/she choose to attend the Grand Finals, and will be listed as a backup player.
The Top 8 finishers will qualify for Season 2 of the North American Star League.
NaNiwa had two chances for earning a grand finales spot. He did not played his best in the NASL playoffs and missed Top2 spot partially due to an early season w/o, so he had no one to blame for missing out but himself.
It's unfortunate that any thread with NASL in the title will inevitably attract the thrones of TL folks whom made it their business to chase every shadow for their latest claim to how NASL has failed (or how it's a pyramid scheme, or how they're amataurish, et al). It's a scary proposition that the same people whom purports to wishing for E-sports to flourish in the west yet actively works to undermine one of the biggest tournament.
On July 03 2011 01:37 ChickenLips wrote: I think everyone is waiting for Xeris' response as to why NASL went to the trouble of contacting a Korean team manager for a replacement when the next-in-line should obviously be Nani, since he came 3rd in his group.
Seems pretty petty to not invite him because he said "finally done with NASL" before gging out of his most recent NASL game.
Read the thread. People have posted multiple times that, since before the season even started, it was stated that the runner up of the open tournament would be the back-up player. Nani has no right to complain.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
That was my thought, too. Why take a player from the open bracket when you SHOULD be taking the next person in line (the person who lost to Strelok, before the VISA problems)
On July 03 2011 01:37 ChickenLips wrote: I think everyone is waiting for Xeris' response as to why NASL went to the trouble of contacting a Korean team manager for a replacement when the next-in-line should obviously be Nani, since he came 3rd in his group.
Seems pretty petty to not invite him because he said "finally done with NASL" before gging out of his most recent NASL game.
Read the thread. People have posted multiple times that, since before the season even started, it was stated that the runner up of the open tournament would be the back-up player. Nani has no right to complain.
On July 03 2011 01:37 ChickenLips wrote: I think everyone is waiting for Xeris' response as to why NASL went to the trouble of contacting a Korean team manager for a replacement when the next-in-line should obviously be Nani, since he came 3rd in his group.
Seems pretty petty to not invite him because he said "finally done with NASL" before gging out of his most recent NASL game.
Read the thread. People have posted multiple times that, since before the season even started, it was stated that the runner up of the open tournament would be the back-up player. Nani has no right to complain.
He was asking a question...
It had been answered multiple times before Xeris even responded. His question was born out of laziness and bias.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
That was my thought, too. Why take a player from the open bracket when you SHOULD be taking the next person in line (the person who lost to Strelok, before the VISA problems)
On July 03 2011 01:37 ChickenLips wrote: I think everyone is waiting for Xeris' response as to why NASL went to the trouble of contacting a Korean team manager for a replacement when the next-in-line should obviously be Nani, since he came 3rd in his group.
Seems pretty petty to not invite him because he said "finally done with NASL" before gging out of his most recent NASL game.
Sign... People don't even bother to flip back a page.
This is because Alive is the NASL Open runner up. It's listed in the NASL Open rules that the runner-up is invited as a back-up player in the grand finals, here.
What's at stake The winner of the tournament will receive a $500 travel stipend and a spot at the Grand Finals July 8-10 in Ontario, California.
The second place finisher will receive a $500 travel stipend should he/she choose to attend the Grand Finals, and will be listed as a backup player.
The Top 8 finishers will qualify for Season 2 of the North American Star League.
NaNiwa had two chances for earning a grand finales spot. He did not played his best in the NASL playoffs and missed Top2 spot partially due to an early season w/o, so he had no one to blame for missing out but himself.
It's unfortunate that any thread with NASL in the title will inevitably attract the thrones of TL folks whom made it their business to chase every shadow for their latest claim to how NASL has failed (or how it's a pyramid scheme, or how they're amataurish, et al). It's a scary proposition that the same people whom purports to wishing for E-sports to flourish in the west yet actively works to undermine one of the biggest tournament.
It was stated before the open tournament was even played that the runner-up of the Open Tournament would be listed as a backup player for the NASL playoffs.
Personally I think this decision is worth some discussion, but for now rules are rules and it's not like they didn't inform people.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
That was my thought, too. Why take a player from the open bracket when you SHOULD be taking the next person in line (the person who lost to Strelok, before the VISA problems)
Stay classy, NASL.
Xeris already responded read up...and Naniwa isnt even the most deserving player it was Ace who had the best non playoff record. So stop the damn whining just cause it was naniwa that decided to post.
I would have assumed that the the open bracket winner would be replaced by the runnerup if they for some reason couldn't attend. And that a player from the season/playoff side would be replaced by next in line from the playoffs.
The rule should be tweaked because it doesn't make sense to reward players coming through the open bracket at the expense of the players who've committed to the entire season. Open bracket shouldn't even exist, IMO.
On July 03 2011 01:46 Jakkerr wrote: It was stated before the open tournament was even played that the runner-up of the Open Tournament would be listed as a backup player for the NASL playoffs.
Personally I think this decision is worth some discussion, but for now rules are rules and it's not like they didn't inform people.
i actually assumed that this was only applicable if the open tourney winner couldnt make it, which is why i didn't make much of it when it was first announced
but if this is the case then i think its an issue that will have to be addressed in the next season
Wish it could've gone to Ace, actually. He went 7-2 and narrowly lost in the playoffs to HasuObs, who went 5-4 in the same group (including a previous loss to Ace) and got a free walkover win in the playoffs. I'm not contesting the rules, just felt a little bad for Ace.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
^--- quite true, and i guess this will be another reason why u wont be back for season 2.
how long do these visas last, like a couple of days? if it lasts for like 6 month+, why cant strelok just get one to have one, so this shit doesnt happen
The B1/B2 visa for business or travel last 10 years (maximum) for Thai people. Don't know how long it will be for Ukrainian, though, but I think normally a person could at least get a 12 months visa.
Sad for Strelok though but it's hard to go and apply for visa without valid reasons. So I guess he had to wait until he was sure that he qualified for the grand final, so the interviewer would not reject him.
Congratulation to Alive too.
Yes, 10 years is the maximum length for any US tourist/business visa. However the actual length is set by the consular officer who interviews you and he may well decide to give you a visa good for a single trip.
To be honest I think NASL should have stuck to their policy of not inviting people without visa, no exceptions.
I find it ridiculous that NightEnd was told he can't get in the league simply because he didn't show proof of a visa, and then a player like Strelok doesn't have one when he knew it was likely he would be playing in the US for quite awhile now.
On top of that, replacing him with aLive instead of Naniwa? Why? Please don't tell me that an entire organization would actually get butthurt over a few words, and wouldn't be able to simply act professional and give the spot to a player who committed themselves to the entire season.
On July 03 2011 01:08 tsuxiit wrote: That blows. I thought a requirement to entering the tournament was actually having a valid visa?
Yes but you have to pay for Visa's so it'd be unfair to expect him to pay a load for his Visa, before he even knew if he could go or not
No... it would be unfair for him to play in a NA league without knowing for certain that he could actually travel for the final tournament if he were to take a spot in it and participate.
On July 03 2011 01:49 Canucklehead wrote: I rarely agree with xeris but in this case I will. Being bm should have consequences and naniwa did bm the league pretty hard.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
That was my thought, too. Why take a player from the open bracket when you SHOULD be taking the next person in line (the person who lost to Strelok, before the VISA problems)
Stay classy, NASL.
There are rules, rules have been followed. Perhaps next season they will implement some format/rule/changes in general, but right now I am interested to see how another Korean will do in the fray.
On July 03 2011 01:49 Canucklehead wrote: I rarely agree with xeris but in this case I will. Being bm should have consequences and naniwa did bm the league pretty hard.
I actually disagree with this, all other sports leagues, if you are BM, they punish you based on rules/powers that are generally agreed upon and that people know about (Throwing you out of a baseball game, ejection from a football game, fines etc etc). If the rules were that Naniwa would get the spot, but there were no rules excluding him from taking said spot due to BM, I would expect that he get the spot. However, this point is rather moot in this situation as the rules are that the open winner would get the first backup spot.
On July 03 2011 01:56 Chicane wrote: Another no show... this time in person.
I find it ridiculous that NightEnd was told he can't get in the league simply because he didn't show proof of a visa, and then a player like Strelok doesn't have one when he knew it was likely he would be playing in the US for quite awhile now.
On top of that, replacing him with aLive instead of Naniwa? Why? Please don't tell me that an entire organization would actually get butthurt over a few words, and wouldn't be able to simply act professional and give the spot to a player who committed themselves to the entire season.
Seriously... what is this...
Already explained. We didn't not choose Naniwa because of what he said, but because our rules were very clear as to what would happen if a player couldn't come.
On July 03 2011 01:56 Chicane wrote: Another no show... this time in person.
I find it ridiculous that NightEnd was told he can't get in the league simply because he didn't show proof of a visa, and then a player like Strelok doesn't have one when he knew it was likely he would be playing in the US for quite awhile now.
On top of that, replacing him with aLive instead of Naniwa? Why? Please don't tell me that an entire organization would actually get butthurt over a few words, and wouldn't be able to simply act professional and give the spot to a player who committed themselves to the entire season.
On July 03 2011 01:08 tsuxiit wrote: That blows. I thought a requirement to entering the tournament was actually having a valid visa?
Yes but you have to pay for Visa's so it'd be unfair to expect him to pay a load for his Visa, before he even knew if he could go or not
No... it would be unfair for him to play in a NA league without knowing for certain that he could actually travel for the final tournament if he were to take a spot in it and participate.
I'll repost this as many times as necesary because TeamLiquid seems to be full of members with attention span of a goldfish.
This is because Alive is the NASL Open runner up. It's listed in the NASL Open rules that the runner-up is invited as a back-up player in the grand finals, here.
What's at stake The winner of the tournament will receive a $500 travel stipend and a spot at the Grand Finals July 8-10 in Ontario, California.
The second place finisher will receive a $500 travel stipend should he/she choose to attend the Grand Finals, and will be listed as a backup player.
The Top 8 finishers will qualify for Season 2 of the North American Star League.
NaNiwa had two chances for earning a grand finales spot. He did not played his best in the NASL playoffs and missed Top2 spot partially due to an early season w/o, so he had no one to blame for missing out but himself.
It's unfortunate that any thread with NASL in the title will inevitably attract the thrones of TL folks whom made it their business to chase every shadow for their latest claim to how NASL has failed (or how it's a pyramid scheme, or how they're amataurish, et al). It's a scary proposition that the same people whom purports to wishing for E-sports to flourish in the west yet actively works to undermine one of the biggest tournament.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
On paper, the rule sounded better then seeing the actual implementation of it. Hopefully next season it will be fixed up. I'm not saying it should be Naniwa, but it should have been whoever was next in line from the playoffs. One of the players Xeris already listed.
On July 03 2011 01:56 Chicane wrote: Another no show... this time in person.
I find it ridiculous that NightEnd was told he can't get in the league simply because he didn't show proof of a visa, and then a player like Strelok doesn't have one when he knew it was likely he would be playing in the US for quite awhile now.
On top of that, replacing him with aLive instead of Naniwa? Why? Please don't tell me that an entire organization would actually get butthurt over a few words, and wouldn't be able to simply act professional and give the spot to a player who committed themselves to the entire season.
Seriously... what is this...
On July 03 2011 01:56 Tidus Mino wrote:
On July 03 2011 01:08 tsuxiit wrote: That blows. I thought a requirement to entering the tournament was actually having a valid visa?
Yes but you have to pay for Visa's so it'd be unfair to expect him to pay a load for his Visa, before he even knew if he could go or not
No... it would be unfair for him to play in a NA league without knowing for certain that he could actually travel for the final tournament if he were to take a spot in it and participate.
I'll repost this as many times as necesary because TeamLiquid seems to be full of members with attention span of a goldfish.
This is because Alive is the NASL Open runner up. It's listed in the NASL Open rules that the runner-up is invited as a back-up player in the grand finals, here.
What's at stake The winner of the tournament will receive a $500 travel stipend and a spot at the Grand Finals July 8-10 in Ontario, California.
The second place finisher will receive a $500 travel stipend should he/she choose to attend the Grand Finals, and will be listed as a backup player.
The Top 8 finishers will qualify for Season 2 of the North American Star League.
NaNiwa had two chances for earning a grand finales spot. He did not played his best in the NASL playoffs and missed Top2 spot partially due to an early season w/o, so he had no one to blame for missing out but himself.
It's unfortunate that any thread with NASL in the title will inevitably attract the thrones of TL folks whom made it their business to chase every shadow for their latest claim to how NASL has failed (or how it's a pyramid scheme, or how they're amataurish, et al). It's a scary proposition that the same people whom purports to wishing for E-sports to flourish in the west yet actively works to undermine one of the biggest tournament.
No need to come across as condescending. I went on the NASL site and didn't see a rules page, and read many posts on this thread, and thought the other people saying Nani should take the spot were basing it off the rules. Just because I didn't happen to see your post doesn't mean I have the attention span of a goldfish. Logic fail.
Regardless, I admit I was wrong (though I am still not finding those rules... not that I am doubting they are in fact the rules) but my point still stands that it was hypocritical of them to deny NightEnd solely on his visa issues, when Strelok who should have known it is likely he will be going to the US never got one.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
I'm not a robot.
If you are basically saying that you guys do respond emotionally since you are human, the point people are making is that as an organization, you should try to control or overlook those emotions.
On July 03 2011 02:03 Takezou wrote: While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
So let me get this straight. It's only the tournament's job to follow the straight and narrow. However, if a player publically acts like a dick towards the tournament they are just supposed to take it.
If you are going to spout that "professionalism!!!!" mantra at least understand that if you actually want that everyone, including the players, have to act professional otherwise it doesn't look, you know, professional.
Edit: The absurd amount of NASL hatred in the starcraft community is both amusing and depressing at the same time. FOR ESPORTS, right guys?
Sorry, I am just fuming because after reposting this in every single page of this thread, people are still figuring out a way to twist such an unfortunate circumstance as an indictment against NASL.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
I'm not a robot.
If you are basically saying that you guys do respond emotionally since you are human, the point people are making is that as an organization, you should try to control or overlook those emotions.
In most sports, if player is disrespectful towards an official or the organization, they face consequences (fines/bans). So i don't see any wrong doing in NASL part.
If the rules/process for replacing a player have long been established and followed to this result... no problem.
However "3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?"
Is the reason why NASL is a shitty league. Sticks and stones, words are not actions. You are fucking pathetic. Get a PR guy, seriously.
Someone called you a name on the internet, an athlete didn't get in your face while you were trying to observe a game. Naniwa didn't go on a tirade around the internet creating videos and interviews about how the NASL is awful. He certainly didn't create and publish a 15 minute slanderous video about the league because of some minor problem.
Instead of criticizing NASL for being petty shouldn't we be criticizing Nani for being hypocritical? Of all the people to blame here I don't understand how NASL is one of them.
Mousesports, Strelok, Nani are all more valid targets.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
I would say that if a player from English Premier League publicly says that "EPL is suck and a shitty league", he would be banned for a (very) long time.
Professional goes both ways. Players also have to respect organizations as well as organizations have to listen to critiques of players. Clapping with only one hand won't make a sound.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
I'm not a robot.
If you are basically saying that you guys do respond emotionally since you are human, the point people are making is that as an organization, you should try to control or overlook those emotions.
And you should get the stick out from that sensitive spot and calm down.
Seriously guys, if anything Naniwa calling the NASL a shitty tourny is worse than Xeris saying he called it a shitty tournament. And I guarantee that with a little searching you could easily find some major large corporation denying somebody a position or service based on their past interactions.
Why do people jump on this shit so much? I seriously don't understand wtf Xeris did that was "bad" and "unprofessional".......
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
I'm not a robot.
If you are basically saying that you guys do respond emotionally since you are human, the point people are making is that as an organization, you should try to control or overlook those emotions.
First of all: why? My emotional response has absolutely nothing to do with my professionalism, work ethic, or decision making in an official capacity. If Naniwa wants to act like he can do whatever he wants, publicly denounce our league and talk about how he hates playing in it... why should I bother to give him any courtesy? I'll even tell him to his face, and he'd do the same to me.
At the end of the day, I didn't sit there and say "fuck that guy I'm gonna ban him from NASL cuz of what he said," our rules were very clear about our policies.
VISAs outside of a ring of countries the USA has "quick" processes with these days can be hard to obtain. However, this is mostly a corruption/bureaucracy issue. Most of the world is, unfortunately, actually like this.
My guess why WhiteRa hasn't had an issue is simply because he got his ages ago during the SC:BW days. BratOK missed a solid 4 or 5 tournaments due to the VISA issues. You don't get through them quickly, unfortunately.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
Second that. I feel Naniwa deserves the spot alot more than aLive, since he played for nearly 3 months in the NASL and proved in the past that he is a top competitor too. Also I feel that its way too easy for most of the Koreans to get into lucrative tournament spots. Compare that to the qualification process for GSL as a foreigner... Koreans just get invited and can take loads of money home oO
Never seen such an ill-informed post. Foreigners of any note (Huk, Haypro, Ret, Moonglade, Sheth) get seeded into Code A by virtue of not being Korean and avoid the hardest competition in Sc2 (Code B). No foreigner has ever made it through Code B.
Everyone was invited to NASL, whether they were European, Korean or American they were all invited.
In MLG Koreans are invited and avoid the qualifiers just like they do in GSL and given how easilly they destroyed the open bracket (July), and the Championship bracket (MC, MMA, Losira) they've at least proven they were worthy of being seeded. Where as the majority of foreigners in Code A have gone out in the first or second round and even Huk only made it to the Third Round.
Not only that but for NASL Season 2 and the Open Tournament for Season 1 Koreans got in by virtue of beating everyone else, again proving that while Koreans may be occasionally invited to stuff when they're not they just crush everyone anyway, which is not the case at all for foreigners.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
I'm not a robot.
If you are basically saying that you guys do respond emotionally since you are human, the point people are making is that as an organization, you should try to control or overlook those emotions.
First of all: why? My emotional response has absolutely nothing to do with my professionalism, work ethic, or decision making in an official capacity. If Naniwa wants to act like he can do whatever he wants, publicly denounce our league and talk about how he hates playing in it... why should I bother to give him any courtesy? I'll even tell him to his face, and he'd do the same to me.
At the end of the day, I didn't sit there and say "fuck that guy I'm gonna ban him from NASL cuz of what he said," our rules were very clear about our policies.
Hearing things like this makes me very disappointed. Your organization is trying to promote the growth of esports yet you have a representative of the league saying things like this. Do you think the commissioner of the NFL would publicly say things like this? Your emotional response DOES have something to do with your professionalism. This is one of the most unprofessional things I've yet seen with this league. And don't get me wrong, I'm a NASL supporter. Perhaps that's why this is a little upsetting.
On July 03 2011 02:15 Taf the Ghost wrote: VISAs outside of a ring of countries the USA has "quick" processes with these days can be hard to obtain. However, this is mostly a corruption/bureaucracy issue. Most of the world is, unfortunately, actually like this.
My guess why WhiteRa hasn't had an issue is simply because he got his ages ago during the SC:BW days. BratOK missed a solid 4 or 5 tournaments due to the VISA issues. You don't get through them quickly, unfortunately.
Actually, US Visa is processed very quickly, only around 3-4 days and it is done. However, the interview appointment queue is atrociously long. I was trying to get an interview queue for my mother and I can only get the appointment 3 months later simply because everyone wants to go to the US .
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
Second that. I feel Naniwa deserves the spot alot more than aLive, since he played for nearly 3 months in the NASL and proved in the past that he is a top competitor too. Also I feel that its way too easy for most of the Koreans to get into lucrative tournament spots. Compare that to the qualification process for GSL as a foreigner... Koreans just get invited and can take loads of money home oO
Never seen such an ill-informed post. Foreigners of any note (Huk, Haypro, Ret, Moonglade, Sheth) get seeded into Code A by virtue of not being Korean and avoid the hardest competition in Sc2 (Code B). No foreigner has ever made it through Code B.
Everyone was invited to NASL, whether they were European, Korean or American they were all invited.
In MLG Koreans are invited and avoid the qualifiers just like they do in GSL and given how easilly they destroyed the open bracket (July), and the Championship bracket (MC, MMA, Losira) they've at least proven they were worthy of being seeded. Where as the majority of foreigners in Code A have gone out in the first or second round and even Huk only made it to the Third Round.
Not only that but for NASL Season 2 and the Open Tournament for Season 1 Koreans got in by virtue of beating everyone else, again proving that while Koreans may be occasionally invited to stuff when they're not they just crush everyone anyway, which is not the case at all for foreigners.
Idra, Jinro, Ret, Haypro, Artosis, TLO, Torch all made it through the Code B qualifiers without ever being given an auto-seed. That would be HuK and Sheth only.
Idra and Jinro were seeded Code S by points, and maintained with top 4/8 finishes. The others remade qualifiers once or twice, exception Artosis and Torch.
Damn, how unfortunate, I always enjoyed watching Strelok in the NASL. As far as the "Naniwa issue", I agree with NASL, they had made it clear how they would find replacements.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
I'm not a robot.
If you are basically saying that you guys do respond emotionally since you are human, the point people are making is that as an organization, you should try to control or overlook those emotions.
First of all: why? My emotional response has absolutely nothing to do with my professionalism, work ethic, or decision making in an official capacity. If Naniwa wants to act like he can do whatever he wants, publicly denounce our league and talk about how he hates playing in it... why should I bother to give him any courtesy? I'll even tell him to his face, and he'd do the same to me.
At the end of the day, I didn't sit there and say "fuck that guy I'm gonna ban him from NASL cuz of what he said," our rules were very clear about our policies.
Well if you are saying that it wouldn't get in the way of an actual decision then I don't have a problem with it, but I don't see why you would mention it.
Regardless, Naniwa was clearly not a candidate based on the rules, so it's not like it matters. It would be great to get an explanation for why the VISA problems weren't handled initially, especially since it came up as an issue earlier.
And one thing I feel the need to make clear, I am not in this thread to bash or hate on the NASL. I watched many broadcasts and I will watch the finals, and I think many people are in the same situation as me when they simply want to criticize some of the decisions. I guess this is directed more at people who think people come to this thread just to say how much they hate the NASL. I'm sure some do that, but I'm also sure others are simply critiquing the league, especially so things can hopefully go more smoothly next season.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
I'm not a robot.
If you are basically saying that you guys do respond emotionally since you are human, the point people are making is that as an organization, you should try to control or overlook those emotions.
First of all: why? My emotional response has absolutely nothing to do with my professionalism, work ethic, or decision making in an official capacity. If Naniwa wants to act like he can do whatever he wants, publicly denounce our league and talk about how he hates playing in it... why should I bother to give him any courtesy? I'll even tell him to his face, and he'd do the same to me.
At the end of the day, I didn't sit there and say "fuck that guy I'm gonna ban him from NASL cuz of what he said," our rules were very clear about our policies.
Hearing things like this makes me very disappointed. Your organization is trying to promote the growth of esports yet you have a representative of the league saying things like this. Do you think the commissioner of the NFL would publicly say things like this? You emotional response DOES have something to do with your professionalism. This is one of the most unprofessional things I've yet seen with this league. And don't get me wrong, I'm a NASL supporter. Perhaps that's why this is a little upsetting.
On July 03 2011 02:17 lunchforthesky wrote: It was in the rules from the start, stop whining kids.
On July 03 2011 01:29 The_DjiN wrote:
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
Second that. I feel Naniwa deserves the spot alot more than aLive, since he played for nearly 3 months in the NASL and proved in the past that he is a top competitor too. Also I feel that its way too easy for most of the Koreans to get into lucrative tournament spots. Compare that to the qualification process for GSL as a foreigner... Koreans just get invited and can take loads of money home oO
Never seen such an ill-informed post. Foreigners of any note (Huk, Haypro, Ret, Moonglade, Sheth) get seeded into Code A by virtue of not being Korean and avoid the hardest competition in Sc2 (Code B). No foreigner has ever made it through Code B.
Everyone was invited to NASL, whether they were European, Korean or American they were all invited.
In MLG Koreans are invited and avoid the qualifiers just like they do in GSL and given how easilly they destroyed the open bracket (July), and the Championship bracket (MC, MMA, Losira) they've at least proven they were worthy of being seeded. Where as the majority of foreigners in Code A have gone out in the first or second round and even Huk only made it to the Third Round.
Not only that but for NASL Season 2 and the Open Tournament for Season 1 Koreans got in by virtue of beating everyone else, again proving that while Koreans may be occasionally invited to stuff when they're not they just crush everyone anyway, which is not the case at all for foreigners.
Idra, Jinro, Ret, Haypro, Artosis, TLO, Torch all made it through the Code B qualifiers without ever being given an auto-seed. That would be HuK and Sheth only.
Idra and Jinro were seeded Code S by points, and maintained with top 4/8 finishes. The others remade qualifiers once or twice, exception Artosis and Torch.
TLO, Artosis and Idra get in through the qualifiers for the first ever GSL, before Code B/A ever existed. Ret and Haypro I'm fairly certain were seeded for GSL March into Code A as was Huk and Moonglade.
meh...another nasl fail. i ahte to be harsh but this tournament didn't captivate me. mlg did the lan thing well. and ipl did the tournament thing better. this is just way too drawn out. i just dont like it.
On July 03 2011 02:17 lunchforthesky wrote: It was in the rules from the start, stop whining kids.
On July 03 2011 01:29 The_DjiN wrote:
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
Second that. I feel Naniwa deserves the spot alot more than aLive, since he played for nearly 3 months in the NASL and proved in the past that he is a top competitor too. Also I feel that its way too easy for most of the Koreans to get into lucrative tournament spots. Compare that to the qualification process for GSL as a foreigner... Koreans just get invited and can take loads of money home oO
Never seen such an ill-informed post. Foreigners of any note (Huk, Haypro, Ret, Moonglade, Sheth) get seeded into Code A by virtue of not being Korean and avoid the hardest competition in Sc2 (Code B). No foreigner has ever made it through Code B.
Everyone was invited to NASL, whether they were European, Korean or American they were all invited.
In MLG Koreans are invited and avoid the qualifiers just like they do in GSL and given how easilly they destroyed the open bracket (July), and the Championship bracket (MC, MMA, Losira) they've at least proven they were worthy of being seeded. Where as the majority of foreigners in Code A have gone out in the first or second round and even Huk only made it to the Third Round.
Not only that but for NASL Season 2 and the Open Tournament for Season 1 Koreans got in by virtue of beating everyone else, again proving that while Koreans may be occasionally invited to stuff when they're not they just crush everyone anyway, which is not the case at all for foreigners.
Idra, Jinro, Ret, Haypro, Artosis, TLO, Torch all made it through the Code B qualifiers without ever being given an auto-seed. That would be HuK and Sheth only.
Idra and Jinro were seeded Code S by points, and maintained with top 4/8 finishes. The others remade qualifiers once or twice, exception Artosis and Torch.
TLO, Artosis and Idra get in through the qualifiers for the first ever GSL, before Code B/A ever existed. Ret and Haypro I'm fairly certain were seeded for GSL March into Code A as was Huk and Moonglade.
Also back then the difference in skills between foreigners and koreans were not that big.
On July 03 2011 02:03 Takezou wrote: While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
So let me get this straight. It's only the tournament's job to follow the straight and narrow. However, if a player publically acts like a dick towards the tournament they are just supposed to take it.
If you are going to spout that "professionalism!!!!" mantra at least understand that if you actually want that everyone, including the players, have to act professional otherwise it doesn't look, you know, professional.
Edit: The absurd amount of NASL hatred in the starcraft community is both amusing and depressing at the same time. FOR ESPORTS, right guys?
I never said that it is okay for a player to do it. However, Xeris is representing his organization and should act accordingly.
On July 03 2011 02:15 Taf the Ghost wrote: VISAs outside of a ring of countries the USA has "quick" processes with these days can be hard to obtain. However, this is mostly a corruption/bureaucracy issue. Most of the world is, unfortunately, actually like this.
My guess why WhiteRa hasn't had an issue is simply because he got his ages ago during the SC:BW days. BratOK missed a solid 4 or 5 tournaments due to the VISA issues. You don't get through them quickly, unfortunately.
Actually, US Visa is processed very quickly, only around 3-4 days and it is done. However, the interview appointment queue is atrociously long. I was trying to get an interview queue for my mother and I can only get the appointment 3 months later simply because everyone wants to go to the US .
This is correct. Strelok's interview was scheduled for the 8th actually, which is when the tournament starts T_T and I'm not even sure that it's a guaranteed thing to get accepted once you have your interview
Dont see why ppl has problem with Xeris. Professional football players usually get fined hundred thousands of dollar for badmouthing their team, league or whatever. You are not supposed to be tolerated for your words. NBA,NFL, UEFA, FIFA, wherever. Nani should be thankful he didnt get banned, points deducted or anything Then again, why should NASL choose Nani if other third place players were better ? (see playoff results)
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
I'm not a robot.
If you are basically saying that you guys do respond emotionally since you are human, the point people are making is that as an organization, you should try to control or overlook those emotions.
First of all: why? My emotional response has absolutely nothing to do with my professionalism, work ethic, or decision making in an official capacity. If Naniwa wants to act like he can do whatever he wants, publicly denounce our league and talk about how he hates playing in it... why should I bother to give him any courtesy? I'll even tell him to his face, and he'd do the same to me.
At the end of the day, I didn't sit there and say "fuck that guy I'm gonna ban him from NASL cuz of what he said," our rules were very clear about our policies.
Well if you are saying that it wouldn't get in the way of an actual decision then I don't have a problem with it, but I don't see why you would mention it.
Regardless, Naniwa was clearly not a candidate based on the rules, so it's not like it matters. It would be great to get an explanation for why the VISA problems weren't handled initially, especially since it came up as an issue earlier.
And one thing I feel the need to make clear, I am not in this thread to bash or hate on the NASL. I watched many broadcasts and I will watch the finals, and I think many people are in the same situation as me when they simply want to criticize some of the decisions. I guess this is directed more at people who think people come to this thread just to say how much they hate the NASL. I'm sure some do that, but I'm also sure others are simply critiquing the league, especially so things can hopefully go more smoothly next season.
I'm not going to censor myself on the forums. I've been posting here at TL since 2005 and I'm not going to change my personality. TL is the place where I post as a person. When I make an official post as an OP, I behave differently. Maybe I should make a XERIS-OFFICIAL TL account to make all my official posts if it'd make you happy.
I still don't get your post. I've explained 10 times that: White-Ra and BRAT_OK were accepted because they demonstrated ability to go to the US // have a VISA. We made ONE exception to add Strelok because his former team (Mouz) assured us they were working on getting him a VISA and that he would have one for sure by the end of the season. We were in contact with Strelok immediately after his Top 2 position was guaranteed.
We tried everything in our power to get his interview date changed to an earlier time, but we couldn't get it done in the end and he couldn't get a VISA in time.
Xeris, you have no blame at all for this situation since it's just the rules of the league what we see here. But please consider to not make an Open Tournament for the next league, if Alive wins the finals you might aswell not play the first 9 weeks at all. :/ I don't exactly know how to say this, but it takes away some of the magic when players that just played in the open tournament compete versus the players we've seen competing for those spots for 9 weeks.
Damn, this sucks, though not surprising at all. Former USSR and un-developed countries have a very hard time to obtain a Visa to the US. I still remember WCG in San-Francisco, when most Asian teams got denied for visa.
For some people that told Strelok or NASL to plan ahead, well, you can't. The interview queue is like months. So even if he apply right when NASL starts, I doubt its his turn now.
Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
This is the reason I don't watch NASL, you're a joke as an organization.
On July 03 2011 02:33 Jakkerr wrote: Xeris, you have no blame at all for this situation since it's just the rules of the league what we see here. But please consider to not make an Open Tournament for the next league, if Alive wins the finals you might aswell not play the first 9 weeks at all. :/ I don't exactly know how to say this, but it takes away some of the magic when players that just played in the open tournament compete versus the players we've seen competing for those spots for 9 weeks.
We'll see how it goes. We might want to change this rule for next season, but we'll see!
Wow, really sad about this. Strelok's season play was amazing, and his interviews were hilarious too. He's so enthusiastic. I guess NASL tried everything they could. If I were in Xeris' Position, I probably would not even bother to argue with some people here. Stop telling him how to do his job guys T_T
Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
This is the reason I don't watch NASL, you're a joke as an organization.
Name me an organization that says "Oh gee willikers, thanks for calling me the scum of the earth! Here, have some money!"
I'm done with this thread. Teamliquid has turned into a bubbling cauldron of hatred lately, so I guess I need to take a break from these forums.
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
This is the reason I don't watch NASL, you're a joke as an organization.
Name me an organization that says "Oh gee willikers, thanks for calling me the scum of the earth! Here, have some money!"
I'm done with this thread. Teamliquid has turned into a bubbling cauldron of hatred lately, so I guess I need to take a break from these forums.
Have you read the GOMTV statement about banning Rain? Proffesional, respectful. You won't see them going 'the Rain is a toolbag, he won't ever be able to play in our league, bla bla...'
Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
This is the reason I don't watch NASL, you're a joke as an organization.
You're kidding me right? This is not the reason at all Naniwa didn't get the invite, the only reason is that the NASL has a rule that the runner-up of the open tournament would be a backup player. In my opinion Xeris has all the right too list that tho, Naniwa said he didn't want anything to do with the NASL anymore, so why he comes here to whine about not getting a spot? Money > Morals?
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
The posts in this thread want me to tear my hair out. The fact that the runner up from the Open is the backup player has been posted over and over yet every page there's another bandwagoner who can't read more than two posts without going and posting 'Naniwa was robbed!' The NASL hate is getting old. It's very unfortunate Strelok can't go. I love his interviews. It's clear that NASL worked really hard to get him here. Alive was invited via the rules. Get over it. I'm going to go do some deep breathing. -.-
Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
This is the reason I don't watch NASL, you're a joke as an organization.
Name me an organization that says "Oh gee willikers, thanks for calling me the scum of the earth! Here, have some money!"
I'm done with this thread. Teamliquid has turned into a bubbling cauldron of hatred lately, so I guess I need to take a break from these forums.
Have you read the GOMTV statement about banning Rain? Proffesional, respectful. You won't see them going 'the Rain is a toolbag, he won't ever be able to play in our league, bla bla...'
I must have missed the part where Rain shit on the GSL. Can you direct me to where Rain called Gomtv a fucking joke? Thanks in advance!
Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
This is the reason I don't watch NASL, you're a joke as an organization.
Name me an organization that says "Oh gee willikers, thanks for calling me the scum of the earth! Here, have some money!"
I'm done with this thread. Teamliquid has turned into a bubbling cauldron of hatred lately, so I guess I need to take a break from these forums.
Have you read the GOMTV statement about banning Rain? Proffesional, respectful. You won't see them going 'the Rain is a toolbag, he won't ever be able to play in our league, bla bla...'
You are so wrong here. These 2 situation are not the same. For NASL, the player bad-mouting them, somewhat insulted the league. In any SPORTS, make it football(soccer), basket ball..etc, most athelics or people that involved in the league that insulted or say harsh things about the hosting organization will get a fine or even ban for matches.
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
Public opinion means absolutely nothing for the rules of this Season of the NASL, the rules that were made at the start of the tournament should remain for the duration of the tournament, end of.
I get that a lot of people want to see Naniwa qualify but he had his chance twice and he lost.
Alive (who is a better player than Naniwa anyway) got second in the qualifier, and the rules state that second in the qualifier is first reserve for drop outs.
If they want to change that rule for the next tournament then fine but for this tournament Alive should 100% take Strelok's positions as those are the rules.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
I'm not a robot.
If you are basically saying that you guys do respond emotionally since you are human, the point people are making is that as an organization, you should try to control or overlook those emotions.
First of all: why? My emotional response has absolutely nothing to do with my professionalism, work ethic, or decision making in an official capacity. If Naniwa wants to act like he can do whatever he wants, publicly denounce our league and talk about how he hates playing in it... why should I bother to give him any courtesy? I'll even tell him to his face, and he'd do the same to me.
At the end of the day, I didn't sit there and say "fuck that guy I'm gonna ban him from NASL cuz of what he said," our rules were very clear about our policies.
Well if you are saying that it wouldn't get in the way of an actual decision then I don't have a problem with it, but I don't see why you would mention it.
Regardless, Naniwa was clearly not a candidate based on the rules, so it's not like it matters. It would be great to get an explanation for why the VISA problems weren't handled initially, especially since it came up as an issue earlier.
And one thing I feel the need to make clear, I am not in this thread to bash or hate on the NASL. I watched many broadcasts and I will watch the finals, and I think many people are in the same situation as me when they simply want to criticize some of the decisions. I guess this is directed more at people who think people come to this thread just to say how much they hate the NASL. I'm sure some do that, but I'm also sure others are simply critiquing the league, especially so things can hopefully go more smoothly next season.
I'm not going to censor myself on the forums. I've been posting here at TL since 2005 and I'm not going to change my personality. TL is the place where I post as a person. When I make an official post as an OP, I behave differently. Maybe I should make a XERIS-OFFICIAL TL account to make all my official posts if it'd make you happy.
I still don't get your post. I've explained 10 times that: White-Ra and BRAT_OK were accepted because they demonstrated ability to go to the US // have a VISA. We made ONE exception to add Strelok because his former team (Mouz) assured us they were working on getting him a VISA and that he would have one for sure by the end of the season. We were in contact with Strelok immediately after his Top 2 position was guaranteed.
We tried everything in our power to get his interview date changed to an earlier time, but we couldn't get it done in the end and he couldn't get a VISA in time.
I actually think having a NASL-Offical account would be a very good solution. The problem is that it is very hard to distinguish your opinions and NASL-official statements when you use one account to post both. I think it would add some more professionalism. While I totally understand that you don't want to censor yourself, I think a different attitude is needed when you represent a whole organization with your statements than when you just represent yourself.
On topic: Shame for Strelok, but I kind of agree with the rest that the visa issue should have been resolved earlier. I don't understand why mouz didn't just get him a Visa anyways? As for the choice of aLive, that was in the rules so nobody can really complain. Maybe the rules should be changed for next season, but that is for NASL to decide.
Overall I think NASL has had a bumpy start and there are still a lot of things that can be improved, but I am still very happy and grateful that a league of this caliber has been started and I think that people should stop blindly bashing it. What good does that do? It is a great thing for ESPORTS. Constructive criticism is needed ofc, and so far NASL has done a great job of improving. I certainly didn't regret buying a season ticket
On July 03 2011 01:21 amazingoopah wrote: don't want to be a jerk by asking this, but why was the runner up of the open tournament selected, shouldn't the player with the best regular season record not in the playoffs have gotten first dibs on the open slot?
One reason was that pretty early it was in the rules that the runner up of the open tournament would get a 500 dollar travel stipend to the finals as a reserve.
Why are people calling the NASL petty.... Even if Xeris said what he said, its true... Its true with professional sports as well... If a player talks bad about the franchise/organization, you better believe they will get rid of that player as quick as possible. Its just common sense. Why would they invite a guy who publicly stated he is glad he is done with the NASL?
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
What's the point of writing up rules if you're going to change them in the middle of an event whenever people bitch about them? They had clear guidelines written down beforehand as to what would happen in this scenario and they followed those guidelines. People obviously didn't bitch about it back then, but suddenly now that Naniwa comes out and says something, everyone's all up in NASL's face about it after the fact. There's no need for a poll and having one wouldn't resolve anything as people would still bitch and whine about whatever is decided. Public opinion is fine for some things, but in this case it's just plain pointless.
Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
This is the reason I don't watch NASL, you're a joke as an organization.
Name me an organization that says "Oh gee willikers, thanks for calling me the scum of the earth! Here, have some money!"
I'm done with this thread. Teamliquid has turned into a bubbling cauldron of hatred lately, so I guess I need to take a break from these forums.
Have you read the GOMTV statement about banning Rain? Proffesional, respectful. You won't see them going 'the Rain is a toolbag, he won't ever be able to play in our league, bla bla...'
Pretty sure that his comment wasn't an official statement, but was him posting on a community forum.
The person you quoted has it 100% correct. TL has turned into a trash pit with how much trolling and hate goes on lately.
Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
This is the reason I don't watch NASL, you're a joke as an organization.
Name me an organization that says "Oh gee willikers, thanks for calling me the scum of the earth! Here, have some money!"
I'm done with this thread. Teamliquid has turned into a bubbling cauldron of hatred lately, so I guess I need to take a break from these forums.
Have you read the GOMTV statement about banning Rain? Proffesional, respectful. You won't see them going 'the Rain is a toolbag, he won't ever be able to play in our league, bla bla...'
You are so wrong here. These 2 situation are not the same. For NASL, the player bad-mouting them, somewhat insulted the league. In any SPORTS, make it football(soccer), basket ball..etc, most athelics or people that involved in the league that insulted or say harsh things about the hosting organization will get a fine or even ban for matches.
This is true. Ryan Babel of the epl recently was fined for insulting a ref over twitter.
I think Xeris need to edit the OP and save himself and NASL some problems in explain the rule over and over again. And it seems, when a known player post, most people will immediately jump in with him. Great player Naniwa, but need some attitude fix.
On July 03 2011 02:42 Ansalem wrote: The posts in this thread want me to tear my hair out. The fact that the runner up from the Open is the backup player has been posted over and over yet every page there's another bandwagoner who can't read more than two posts without going and posting 'Naniwa was robbed!' The NASL hate is getting old. It's very unfortunate Strelok can't go. I love his interviews. It's clear that NASL worked really hard to get him here. Alive was invited via the rules. Get over it. I'm going to go do some deep breathing. -.-
I agree with most of that, but Xeris invited much of the criticism.
Had he just pointed out that it was the rule from the beginning and left it at that, then we wouldn't be seeing many of these posts hating on the NASL. He says that he doesn't want to "censor" his opinions while posting on the forums, and I can respect that. However, it's obviously going to result in people forming their own opinions based on what he writes, and some of them are inevitably going to be negative.
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
Public opinion means absolutely nothing for the rules of this Season of the NASL, the rules that were made at the start of the tournament should remain for the duration of the tournament, end of.
I get that a lot of people want to see Naniwa qualify but he had his chance twice and he lost.
Alive (who is a better player than Naniwa anyway) got second in the qualifier, and the rules state that second in the qualifier is first reserve for drop outs.
If they want to change that rule for the next tournament then fine but for this tournament Alive should 100% take Strelok's positions as those are the rules.
I'm not sure how mmdmmd meant his post, but making a poll just to gauge the public opinion isn't a bad move (along the lines off "for next season, how should backup players be chosen?"). I agree that you shouldn't existing rules for THIS tournament, but maybe get ideas for next season?
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
Public opinion means absolutely nothing for the rules of this Season of the NASL, the rules that were made at the start of the tournament should remain for the duration of the tournament, end of.
I get that a lot of people want to see Naniwa qualify but he had his chance twice and he lost.
Alive (who is a better player than Naniwa anyway) got second in the qualifier, and the rules state that second in the qualifier is first reserve for drop outs.
If they want to change that rule for the next tournament then fine but for this tournament Alive should 100% take Strelok's positions as those are the rules.
I'm not sure how mmdmmd meant his post, but making a poll just to gauge the public opinion isn't a bad move (along the lines off "for next season, how should backup players be chosen?"). I agree that you shouldn't existing rules for THIS tournament, but maybe get ideas for next season?
People are only whining because it's Naniwa. If Naniwa was second in the open tournament and Alive third in his group people would whine that Naniwa should qualify.
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
What's the point of writing up rules if you're going to change them in the middle of an event whenever people bitch about them? They had clear guidelines written down beforehand as to what would happen in this scenario and they followed those guidelines. People obviously didn't bitch about it back then, but suddenly now that Naniwa comes out and says something, everyone's all up in NASL's face about it after the fact. There's no need for a poll and having one wouldn't resolve anything as people would still bitch and whine about whatever is decided. Public opinion is fine for some things, but in this case it's just plain pointless.
I don't want to go in to details of the importance of public opinions in any organisation/business model(especially when you are a start up). I have only one thing to say: Most of the customer never complain, they just walk away.
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
What's the point of writing up rules if you're going to change them in the middle of an event whenever people bitch about them? They had clear guidelines written down beforehand as to what would happen in this scenario and they followed those guidelines. People obviously didn't bitch about it back then, but suddenly now that Naniwa comes out and says something, everyone's all up in NASL's face about it after the fact. There's no need for a poll and having one wouldn't resolve anything as people would still bitch and whine about whatever is decided. Public opinion is fine for some things, but in this case it's just plain pointless.
I don't want to go in to details of the importance of public opinions in any organisation/business model(especially when you are a start up). I have only one thing to say: Most of the customer never complain, they just walk away.
Please justify how NASL should change their rules at the last minute to allow Naniwa in, how is that fair?
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
What's the point of writing up rules if you're going to change them in the middle of an event whenever people bitch about them? They had clear guidelines written down beforehand as to what would happen in this scenario and they followed those guidelines. People obviously didn't bitch about it back then, but suddenly now that Naniwa comes out and says something, everyone's all up in NASL's face about it after the fact. There's no need for a poll and having one wouldn't resolve anything as people would still bitch and whine about whatever is decided. Public opinion is fine for some things, but in this case it's just plain pointless.
I don't want to go in to details of the importance of public opinions in any organisation/business model(especially when you are a start up). I have only one thing to say: Most of the customer never complain, they just walk away.
Please justify how NASL should change their rules at the last minute to allow Naniwa in, how is that fair?
Let's work on this "after" we see what the majority want.
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
What's the point of writing up rules if you're going to change them in the middle of an event whenever people bitch about them? They had clear guidelines written down beforehand as to what would happen in this scenario and they followed those guidelines. People obviously didn't bitch about it back then, but suddenly now that Naniwa comes out and says something, everyone's all up in NASL's face about it after the fact. There's no need for a poll and having one wouldn't resolve anything as people would still bitch and whine about whatever is decided. Public opinion is fine for some things, but in this case it's just plain pointless.
I don't want to go in to details of the importance of public opinions in any organisation/business model(especially when you are a start up). I have only one thing to say: Most of the customer never complain, they just walk away.
Please justify how NASL should change their rules at the last minute to allow Naniwa in, how is that fair?
Let's work on this "after" we see what the majority want.
So basically tournaments should change their rules and structure mid tournament because people don't like it?
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
What's the point of writing up rules if you're going to change them in the middle of an event whenever people bitch about them? They had clear guidelines written down beforehand as to what would happen in this scenario and they followed those guidelines. People obviously didn't bitch about it back then, but suddenly now that Naniwa comes out and says something, everyone's all up in NASL's face about it after the fact. There's no need for a poll and having one wouldn't resolve anything as people would still bitch and whine about whatever is decided. Public opinion is fine for some things, but in this case it's just plain pointless.
I don't want to go in to details of the importance of public opinions in any organisation/business model(especially when you are a start up). I have only one thing to say: Most of the customer never complain, they just walk away.
Please justify how NASL should change their rules at the last minute to allow Naniwa in, how is that fair?
Let's work on this "after" we see what the majority want.
Um, no. Let's follow the rules and allow the player that rightfully replaced Strelok to attend the finals without complaining about it.
On July 03 2011 02:55 mmdmmd wrote: I don't want to go in to details of the importance of public opinions in any organisation/business model(especially when you are a start up). I have only one thing to say: Most of the customer never complain, they just walk away.
In my experience, most customers that complain will always find something else to complain about regardless of what you do. You'll never satisfy everyone so why bother trying to? Also, we're not talking about business models here. We're talking about a specific decision that was made due to a specific rule that was in place. What does adding a poll about it actually accomplish? If people don't like it, they'll express that opinion without the need for a poll.
Everyone's talking about Xeris and "professionalism" like there's a set of standards one must uphold to in order to be "professional." While I agree that there are some things that are blatantly unprofessional, most things fall under the category of "who gives a crap?"
All this attacking of Xeris' "professionalism" is a joke. What he said really wasn't that bad: there was no personal attack against Nani, no character assassination, etc. All he said is that Naniwa's sharp criticism/disdain for the NASL has "consequences."
Is this really more "unprofessional" than the norm in today's sports world? Bud Selig trashing Frank McCourt (and rightfully so)...there's always an exchange of words. Who cares?
Probably the biggest example of "unprofessionalism" in sports being largely overplayed is Dana White with the UFC. You can call many of his statements/actions unprofessional, but it has nothing to do with his ability to make MMA and the UFC a success. Similarly, if you want to think what Xeris said was unprofessional, go ahead. Just don't pretend that it really matters or has some sort of major effect on the league or eSports as a whole.
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
What's the point of writing up rules if you're going to change them in the middle of an event whenever people bitch about them? They had clear guidelines written down beforehand as to what would happen in this scenario and they followed those guidelines. People obviously didn't bitch about it back then, but suddenly now that Naniwa comes out and says something, everyone's all up in NASL's face about it after the fact. There's no need for a poll and having one wouldn't resolve anything as people would still bitch and whine about whatever is decided. Public opinion is fine for some things, but in this case it's just plain pointless.
I don't want to go in to details of the importance of public opinions in any organisation/business model(especially when you are a start up). I have only one thing to say: Most of the customer never complain, they just walk away.
Please justify how NASL should change their rules at the last minute to allow Naniwa in, how is that fair?
Let's work on this "after" we see what the majority want.
So basically tournaments should change their rules and structure mid tournament because people don't like it?
Thsi brings me back to one of Strelok's first matches in NASL, against naniwa, where he took a walkover win because Nani's train was delayed (something to that effect). Strelok went on a long rant about how he has standards for proffesionalism and how he hates that Nani couldn't show up, cause he'd love to play him.
I'm not saying Strelok's a hypocrite or anything lol, that would be silly, but I imagine he must be very dissapointed and angry, considering what a competitive guy he is.
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
What's the point of writing up rules if you're going to change them in the middle of an event whenever people bitch about them? They had clear guidelines written down beforehand as to what would happen in this scenario and they followed those guidelines. People obviously didn't bitch about it back then, but suddenly now that Naniwa comes out and says something, everyone's all up in NASL's face about it after the fact. There's no need for a poll and having one wouldn't resolve anything as people would still bitch and whine about whatever is decided. Public opinion is fine for some things, but in this case it's just plain pointless.
I don't want to go in to details of the importance of public opinions in any organisation/business model(especially when you are a start up). I have only one thing to say: Most of the customer never complain, they just walk away.
Please justify how NASL should change their rules at the last minute to allow Naniwa in, how is that fair?
Let's work on this "after" we see what the majority want.
So basically tournaments should change their rules and structure mid tournament because people don't like it?
If most people don't. Yes.
You're an absolute joke if you're being serious about this. And by "most people" you really just mean people specifically on TL.net that will actually take their time out to vote in a community poll... Your assumption that this would somehow represent the majority of public opinion is dubious at best.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
agreed. think of how many times idra has slandered or bad mouthed various people and admins on TL -- while he may get banned from the forums, just being a douche isn't going to stop TL from letting him play in tournaments, because he's one of the best in the world, as is naniwa
On July 03 2011 02:55 mmdmmd wrote: I don't want to go in to details of the importance of public opinions in any organisation/business model(especially when you are a start up). I have only one thing to say: Most of the customer never complain, they just walk away.
In my experience, most customers that complain will always find something else to complain about regardless of what you do. You'll never satisfy everyone so why bother trying to?
I've came to the conclusion that you have NO idea what you are talking about. Let's not argue about business model here. It's not going to get anywhere.
Really sucks for Strelok, seeing as he did so well in group play, but still I can't wait to see how Alive does, from the games I've seen he seems to have some potential.
And I can't believe all this NASL hate shit. They're following the rules, rules which have been public since the league began. The wording might be somewhat ambiguous, so maybe it should be altered if anything to make it clear that the open tournament runner-up will be back-up for any finalist, not just the open winner.
P.S. - If you're actually going to bitch about any player being more diserving of the spot, you should be asking for ST_Ace.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
agreed. think of how many times idra has slandered or bad mouthed various people and admins on TL -- while he may get banned from the forums, just being a douche isn't going to stop TL from letting him play in tournaments, because he's one of the best in the world, as is naniwa
Well that's not what happened so why cloud the issue by complaining about it?
Haha I know you bunch are super into 'eSports' and all (me too), but don't you watch real sports as well? Remember recent negative comments from Adrian Peterson about the NFL? He was reprimanded heavily by analysts and NFL representatives for his 'BM'. All of you bitching about this Xeris guy's opinion on Naniwa's trashy attitude are simply out of tune with reality. League officials are not robots, lol. Take a look at actual sports.
On July 03 2011 03:08 DelRax wrote: Really sucks for Strelok, seeing as he did so well in group play, but still I can't wait to see how Alive does, from the games I've seen he seems to have some potential.
And I can't believe all this NASL hate shit. They're following the rules, rules which have been public since the league began. The wording might be somewhat ambiguous, so maybe it should be altered if anything to make it clear that the open tournament runner-up will be back-up for any finalist, not just the open winner.
P.S. - If you're actually going to bitch about any player being more diserving of the spot, you should be asking for ST_Ace.
On July 03 2011 02:55 mmdmmd wrote: I don't want to go in to details of the importance of public opinions in any organisation/business model(especially when you are a start up). I have only one thing to say: Most of the customer never complain, they just walk away.
In my experience, most customers that complain will always find something else to complain about regardless of what you do. You'll never satisfy everyone so why bother trying to?
I've came to the conclusion that you have NO idea what you are talking about. Let's not argue about business model here. It's not going to get anywhere.
Can't wait for Wimbledon to reinstate Andy Murray when Nadal/Federer knocks him out because it would be more popular for him to be in the final.
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
What's the point of writing up rules if you're going to change them in the middle of an event whenever people bitch about them? They had clear guidelines written down beforehand as to what would happen in this scenario and they followed those guidelines. People obviously didn't bitch about it back then, but suddenly now that Naniwa comes out and says something, everyone's all up in NASL's face about it after the fact. There's no need for a poll and having one wouldn't resolve anything as people would still bitch and whine about whatever is decided. Public opinion is fine for some things, but in this case it's just plain pointless.
I don't want to go in to details of the importance of public opinions in any organisation/business model(especially when you are a start up). I have only one thing to say: Most of the customer never complain, they just walk away.
Please justify how NASL should change their rules at the last minute to allow Naniwa in, how is that fair?
Let's work on this "after" we see what the majority want.
So basically tournaments should change their rules and structure mid tournament because people don't like it?
If most people don't. Yes.
Horrible idea. Changing/overlooking the rules put in place at the start of a tournament because of "popular opinion" not only delegitimizes the league, but is a direct disservice to the players who agreed to play under specific conditions.
If you want to decide things by popular vote, why waste these guys' time making them play any games at all? Why not just vote to see who plays each other in the finals? Then the "majority" is guaranteed to get what they want, right?
Sounds like a great plan to lose the support of the players, and without their support, there won't be an audience anyway.
WARNING: Being a Naniwa fanboy or Xeris anti-fanboy may cause you to nitpick one sentence and completely ignore everything else Xeris has said in this thread that clearly shows that the rules are being followed!
i ve no clue but getting a visa must take ages O.o so many problems with visa in "pro gaming" kinda sad for the players, especially eastern europeans seem to be crippled by it
On July 03 2011 01:13 SimDawg wrote: Pretty crappy by Mousesports to assure you he could get a visa and then not deliver. I thought these were supposed to be professional businesses?
Strelok is not in mouz but in imba now. Really sucks for Darkforce though, I think preparing for Strelok is way easier since they know each other from several tournaments and ladder.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
agreed. think of how many times idra has slandered or bad mouthed various people and admins on TL -- while he may get banned from the forums, just being a douche isn't going to stop TL from letting him play in tournaments, because he's one of the best in the world, as is naniwa
I don't agree with this. First, which part from the RULES of NASL you don't understand. Second, Idra, being BM thats true, but most of the time hes just BM toward a person. I don't think Idra ever insult or called TL any thing very bad.
TL also is a forum where people can express their opinions. There is no TL as an business organization unlike NASL, they are an business organization just like many league organizer out there, so they can ban, fine people that talk shit about them.
On July 03 2011 03:07 mmdmmd wrote: I've came to the conclusion that you have NO idea what you are talking about. Let's not argue about business model here. It's not going to get anywhere.
Don't know about you, but I've actually run successful businesses. The customers I've thrown out or simply ignored over the years may not have liked me, but I've been just fine without them and I don't really consider them my customers anyway. Maybe you're the type that likes to cater to everyone and try to please everyone, but I've found that approach to not work as well as you may think. If you're good enough at what you do and your product is good, you won't need to have people validate your decisions with ridiculous feedback mechanisms such as polls or surveys (which are never accurate anyway). The best skill you can develop when running any business is to filter out "public opinion" because the vast majority of it is useless and irrelevant.
In this specific case, the big question NASL needs to ask themselves is whether or not this particular decision is going to affect their viewership. I would say that it's most likely not so it's pointless to dwell on it. Of course if it's a huge issue that may have a significant impact (ie. match fixing or some other scandal), then of course action needs to be taken to protect their business, but nobody's going to stop watching because Strelok was replaced with Alive instead of Naniwa and if they are, it's their loss in the end. Note that I'm not saying that people will LIKE the decision. I'm simply stating that even if they don't like it this is not the kind of situation that's likely to drive away any significant portion of the viewership. As long as people are still tuning in and/or giving you their money despite not liking a particular aspect of the product, you're fine. Of course if your product is so shabby that something as stupid as this is going to seriously affect it, you have way more problems than just the situation at hand. Either way, it's not something that's going to be solved by polling the community for advice.
tldr: The "Soup Nazi" from Seinfeld would be me in a nutshell as far as running a business goes and if you're good enough at what you do, people will still give you their money regardless.
Really sucks for strelok, the guy seemed super pumped for NASL.
What boggles my mind mostly is that it's still as hard getting VISAs to the US. It's as if it was still 1980 =\
Just sucks bad all around, seems everyone involved handled everything as well as they could have and got screwed by bureaucracy. There should also be some props given to the congressman who tried to help!
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
What's the point of writing up rules if you're going to change them in the middle of an event whenever people bitch about them? They had clear guidelines written down beforehand as to what would happen in this scenario and they followed those guidelines. People obviously didn't bitch about it back then, but suddenly now that Naniwa comes out and says something, everyone's all up in NASL's face about it after the fact. There's no need for a poll and having one wouldn't resolve anything as people would still bitch and whine about whatever is decided. Public opinion is fine for some things, but in this case it's just plain pointless.
I don't want to go in to details of the importance of public opinions in any organisation/business model(especially when you are a start up). I have only one thing to say: Most of the customer never complain, they just walk away.
Please justify how NASL should change their rules at the last minute to allow Naniwa in, how is that fair?
Let's work on this "after" we see what the majority want.
That's a silly way of thinking. A similar way would be to have a poll after every single Bo3 that said "do you want the player that won to advance or the other player?". Then we could have a finals with Nada and Boxer every single time.
On July 03 2011 03:20 CoR wrote: what does this mean for the NEXT season ? with alive is now one more player in. is strelok disq. ? i really hope not
Since Alive was 2nd in the open, it also means he had already qualified for season 2. Also, Strelok made a thread here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=239791 stating that although he will not have the visa in time for the finals, he will still be getting it and attending the next MLG. With the visa proof, I'm sure he won't have any issue remaining in the NASL.
its a real shame strelok cant make it considering how well he played over the course of 2 months.
as far as naniwa, hes literally my favorite eu player, i love to see him in any tournament but he needs to grow up and not slander the people/organisations who want to pay him. i wont even comment on him vs alive for the spot in this tournament but i hope he learns in general not to publically bash the hand that feeds.
Wow so much drama in this thread, think lots of you just need to take a step back and chill the fuck out.
I feel sorry for naniwa, but the rules clearly are outlined that the open bracket player would get the spot in this situation so there is no room for argument there.
Oh and Xeris, you really need a lesson in PR if you want everyone to take you and your league seriously. You just CAN'T get emotional and personal when you are representing a professional organisation, that's not just my opinion - that's the way it works.
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
What's the point of writing up rules if you're going to change them in the middle of an event whenever people bitch about them? They had clear guidelines written down beforehand as to what would happen in this scenario and they followed those guidelines. People obviously didn't bitch about it back then, but suddenly now that Naniwa comes out and says something, everyone's all up in NASL's face about it after the fact. There's no need for a poll and having one wouldn't resolve anything as people would still bitch and whine about whatever is decided. Public opinion is fine for some things, but in this case it's just plain pointless.
I don't want to go in to details of the importance of public opinions in any organisation/business model(especially when you are a start up). I have only one thing to say: Most of the customer never complain, they just walk away.
Please justify how NASL should change their rules at the last minute to allow Naniwa in, how is that fair?
Let's work on this "after" we see what the majority want.
That's a silly way of thinking. A similar way would be to have a poll after every single Bo3 that said "do you want the player that won to advance or the other player?". Then we could have a finals with Nada and Boxer every single time.
Why is everyone quoting that line with the assumption that Naniwa will win if there is a poll? I am simply suggesting a "listen then decide" approach to this matter.
On July 03 2011 03:20 CoR wrote: what does this mean for the NEXT season ? with alive is now one more player in. is strelok disq. ? i really hope not
What do you mean what does it mean? Alive got top 8 in the first open tournament, he's in next season of NASL anyways, and so is strelok for being in top 34.
On July 03 2011 02:37 mmdmmd wrote: Xeris, why don't you just make a poll in the first post to see what the general opinion is?
Why on earth would they do that? This is a professional tournament it's not a popularity contest, you don't make rules just to ignore them because some kids on a forum don't like it.
So public opinion doesn't matter to you at all? Glad that you are not running NASL. It'll be "my way or the high way for you"? Kid.
What's the point of writing up rules if you're going to change them in the middle of an event whenever people bitch about them? They had clear guidelines written down beforehand as to what would happen in this scenario and they followed those guidelines. People obviously didn't bitch about it back then, but suddenly now that Naniwa comes out and says something, everyone's all up in NASL's face about it after the fact. There's no need for a poll and having one wouldn't resolve anything as people would still bitch and whine about whatever is decided. Public opinion is fine for some things, but in this case it's just plain pointless.
I don't want to go in to details of the importance of public opinions in any organisation/business model(especially when you are a start up). I have only one thing to say: Most of the customer never complain, they just walk away.
Please justify how NASL should change their rules at the last minute to allow Naniwa in, how is that fair?
Let's work on this "after" we see what the majority want.
That's a silly way of thinking. A similar way would be to have a poll after every single Bo3 that said "do you want the player that won to advance or the other player?". Then we could have a finals with Nada and Boxer every single time.
Why is everyone quoting that line with the assumption that Naniwa will win if there is a poll? I am simply suggesting a "listen then decide" approach to this matter.
Because he has a way bigger fanbase than alive? At least on TL
On July 03 2011 01:15 GTR wrote: is there a reason why white-ra manages to enter america and not brat_ok/strelok? D:
Pretty sure white-ra has gone to the us before.
Ya, unless strelok applied for a visa the day he registered for the nasl, it is entirely his fault. Pretty shitty for all parties(except alive!) but what can ya do :/
On July 03 2011 03:29 Shirolol wrote: Wow so much drama in this thread, think lots of you just need to take a step back and chill the fuck out.
I feel sorry for naniwa, but the rules clearly are outlined that the open bracket player would get the spot in this situation so there is no room for argument there.
Oh and Xeris, you really need a lesson in PR if you want everyone to take you and your league seriously. You just CAN'T get emotional and personal when you are representing a professional organisation, that's not just my opinion - that's the way it works.
Agree with everything here. Sucks for Strelok but that's how it is trying to get into the US I guess.
On July 03 2011 03:30 mmdmmd wrote: Why is everyone quoting that line with the assumption that Naniwa will win if there is a poll? I am simply suggesting a "listen then decide" approach to this matter.
There's no need to "listen then decide" when you already have written guidelines that describe what action is to be taken when this situation arises. If people don't like it, you'll hear about it and maybe decide to change it next season, but sitting down to listen to what a bunch of random people think in order to decide something you already wrote down a response for is ridiculous.
On July 03 2011 03:30 ErikZerg wrote: sigh, why do people have to invite koreans instead of the people who actually worked to get to play(Darkforce Naniwa etc.)
Um, Alive worked to get to play by coming in 2nd in the Open Bracket tournament. Naniwa and Darkforce had the opportunity to qualify for the Grand Finals as well by signing up to compete for the Open Bracket spot, but they opted not to.
On July 03 2011 03:30 ErikZerg wrote: sigh, why do people have to invite koreans instead of the people who actually worked to get to play(Darkforce Naniwa etc.)
Um, Alive worked to get to play by coming in 2nd in the Open Bracket tournament. Naniwa and Darkforce had the opportunity to qualify for the Grand Finals as well by signing up to compete for the Open Bracket spot, but they opted not to.
The rules forbade regular season players from participating in the open tournament, from what I understand. They could only play in the Season 2 qualifiers.
Nonetheless the regular season players had their chance to qualify.
On July 03 2011 03:30 ErikZerg wrote: sigh, why do people have to invite koreans instead of the people who actually worked to get to play(Darkforce Naniwa etc.)
Going by your solution, next in line as stated by Xeris is actually Ace, a Korean.
On July 03 2011 02:33 Jakkerr wrote: Xeris, you have no blame at all for this situation since it's just the rules of the league what we see here. But please consider to not make an Open Tournament for the next league, if Alive wins the finals you might aswell not play the first 9 weeks at all. :/ I don't exactly know how to say this, but it takes away some of the magic when players that just played in the open tournament compete versus the players we've seen competing for those spots for 9 weeks.
Agree with this post completely. Perhaps have half invites and half qualify through open tourney? That would add the "merit entrance" that they seem to be trying to achieve.
On July 03 2011 02:33 Jakkerr wrote: Xeris, you have no blame at all for this situation since it's just the rules of the league what we see here. But please consider to not make an Open Tournament for the next league, if Alive wins the finals you might aswell not play the first 9 weeks at all. :/ I don't exactly know how to say this, but it takes away some of the magic when players that just played in the open tournament compete versus the players we've seen competing for those spots for 9 weeks.
Agree with this post completely. Perhaps have half invites and half qualify through open tourney? That would add the "merit entrance" that they seem to be trying to achieve.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
agreed. think of how many times idra has slandered or bad mouthed various people and admins on TL -- while he may get banned from the forums, just being a douche isn't going to stop TL from letting him play in tournaments, because he's one of the best in the world, as is naniwa
Rules are rules. Naniwa had two chances to make playoffs and lost both of them. The rules say that the open bracket player is the back up.
I love how the open bracket is called 'easier' yet all of the foreigners got ran over by Koreans at some point, sorry Thorzain D=. At least the people in the open bracket weren't allowed a series loss until the finals. Next time, "Don't? lolwut?" accept a bypass of the group tournament and just get top 2, I doubt he would have lasted through all the koreans regardless.
Heck, if I was going to invite a group play player, I would invite the one with the best record, seeing as he is obviously the best player as you all try to say for Naniwa. Ace, Morrow and Zenio went 7-2, Nani went 6-3, players are responsible for their walkover losses. Ace lost his 2nd chance too, but a loss is a loss. Nobody is bigger than the rules! GL next year, your group will be much harder with a few more koreans and a few less under performing foreigners.
GL in code A next season, if you lose set 1, you are out of the league. If you don't show up to your match you get a 2 season ban from the tournament like Rain.
It's quite funny how naniwa was bashing nasl and is probably gonna leave nasl for sure, but now he is asking for a spot in the finals... How disrespectful
No Strelok, that really sucks Hope aLive does well. I guess TSL could use some exposure for their remaining players right about now. I almost wish there was some kind of DH Coin Toss style tourney where Strelok played aLive in a bo5 for his visa, I want to see him play so bad. But I guess he'll make it t to an American lan eventually.
Noooo was really rooting for Strelok to win it as well . Such a shame, but really great the lengths everyone went to to try and help him get the Visa .
most of the idiots in this thread need to learn how to fucking read
first of all it was stated in the rules no need to bash xe like seriously come on
and naniwa for crying why he wasn't picked well the rules were already set before he said anything did anyone even read the op? lol or just nani's reply
edit: don't even know why nani is crying about it since he dislikes the nasl so much lol just saying edit2: as for nani crying i can understand why since you would think that they would chose the 3rd in the bracket, he should know the rules regardless
what i dont understand is him bashing the nasl than crying about not being chosen if he never bashed nasl than i would be in his favor because let's be honest 3rd place seems very practical here if the 2nd place drops out, but regardless rules were made way before this anyways to all the people complaining
and it's ridiculous for nani to cry about riduculing nasl like that lol just my 2cents
On July 03 2011 01:15 GTR wrote: is there a reason why white-ra manages to enter america and not brat_ok/strelok? D:
white-ra actually moves the universe around him so he appears in other countries. Or maybe he just jump into the sea and swim across.
Age and travel history may have something to do with Visa issues. White-ra may also be a lot more experienced with foreign tournaments and prepared wayyyy ahead of time.
On July 03 2011 03:54 Skarmory wrote: Rules are rules. Naniwa had two chances to make playoffs and lost both of them. The rules say that the open bracket player is the back up.
I love how the open bracket is called 'easier' yet all of the foreigners got ran over by Koreans at some point, sorry Thorzain D=. At least the people in the open bracket weren't allowed a series loss until the finals. Next time, "Don't? lolwut?" accept a bypass of the group tournament and just get top 2, I doubt he would have lasted through all the koreans regardless.
Heck, if I was going to invite a group play player, I would invite the one with the best record, seeing as he is obviously the best player as you all try to say for Naniwa. Ace, Morrow and Zenio went 7-2, Nani went 6-3, players are responsible for their walkover losses. Ace lost his 2nd chance too, but a loss is a loss. Nobody is bigger than the rules! GL next year, your group will be much harder with a few more koreans and a few less under performing foreigners.
GL in code A next season, if you lose set 1, you are out of the league. If you don't show up to your match you get a 2 season ban from the tournament like Rain.
Thank God you're not picking the invites then. Personally I do think it's weird concidering how long of a tournament it is, and then they just shove it all away in favour of someone who strolled through the open bracket.
On July 03 2011 04:08 gosu86 wrote: most of the idiots in this thread need to learn how to fucking read
first of all it was stated in the rules no need to bash xe like seriously come on
and naniwa for crying why he wasn't picked well the rules were already set before he said anything did anyone even read the op? lol or just nani's reply
edit: don't even know why nani is crying about it since he dislikes the nasl so much lol just saying
and you better rethink your attitude. I didnt see anyone insulting you and therefore you dont need to insult other netizens like you did in your first sentence.
On July 03 2011 04:08 gosu86 wrote: most of the idiots in this thread need to learn how to fucking read
first of all it was stated in the rules no need to bash xe like seriously come on
and naniwa for crying why he wasn't picked well the rules were already set before he said anything did anyone even read the op? lol or just nani's reply
edit: don't even know why nani is crying about it since he dislikes the nasl so much lol just saying
and you better rethink your attitude. I didnt see anyone insulting you and therefore you dont need to insult other netizens like you did in your first sentence.
Well put it this way how much people didn't even read and are creating crazy drama. If you read the thread how much people are bashing Xeris. I for one don't think he deserves all the hate and bashing he is getting in this thread. People are looking at nani' quote saying why wasn't I chosen since I was 3rd. Xeris already stated beforehand the rules and yet everyone is bashing him. And the people bashing him don't even know the rules was placed already on who was going to be picked if he droped out.
Unless you agree that Xeris deserves the negetive comments he's getting for a rule he already stated beforehand.
edit: Yes I understand that people think it's more logical to have the 3rd person in the bracket take the place if someone does drop out. Who knows maybe the rules will change in the future. Xeris has set the rule already even though people don't agree that's fine. The trolling/negetivity against xeris in this thread is just disgusting.
On July 03 2011 03:54 Skarmory wrote: Rules are rules. Naniwa had two chances to make playoffs and lost both of them. The rules say that the open bracket player is the back up.
I love how the open bracket is called 'easier' yet all of the foreigners got ran over by Koreans at some point, sorry Thorzain D=. At least the people in the open bracket weren't allowed a series loss until the finals. Next time, "Don't? lolwut?" accept a bypass of the group tournament and just get top 2, I doubt he would have lasted through all the koreans regardless.
Heck, if I was going to invite a group play player, I would invite the one with the best record, seeing as he is obviously the best player as you all try to say for Naniwa. Ace, Morrow and Zenio went 7-2, Nani went 6-3, players are responsible for their walkover losses. Ace lost his 2nd chance too, but a loss is a loss. Nobody is bigger than the rules! GL next year, your group will be much harder with a few more koreans and a few less under performing foreigners.
GL in code A next season, if you lose set 1, you are out of the league. If you don't show up to your match you get a 2 season ban from the tournament like Rain.
Thank God you're not picking the invites then. Personally I do think it's weird concidering how long of a tournament it is, and then they just shove it all away in favour of someone who strolled through the open bracket.
your point is very plausible but one could argue making it through open bracket was equally or even more demanding. (Which might change in season 2 as pool plays will get significantly more difficult)
Idra, Nada, Ace, Kiwikaki, and Naniwa should have a tournament to fill this spot as playoff winners. Each of these players would bring 10,000 more fans than alive. I thought Nasl wanted to succeed as a business.
On July 03 2011 04:35 nukeazerg wrote: Idra, Nada, Ace, Kiwikaki, and Naniwa should have a tournament to fill this spot as playoff winners. Each of these players would bring 10,000 more fans than alive. I thought Nasl wanted to succeed as a business.
A business that just changes its rules/guidelines at a drop of a hat wont be successful.
On July 03 2011 04:35 nukeazerg wrote: Idra, Nada, Ace, Kiwikaki, and Naniwa should have a tournament to fill this spot as playoff winners. Each of these players would bring 10,000 more fans than alive. I thought Nasl wanted to succeed as a business.
A business that just changes its rules/guidelines at a drop of a hat wont be successful.
I always took the guideline that he would only back-up the other open tournament guy. There is no specific wording.
On July 03 2011 04:35 nukeazerg wrote: Idra, Nada, Ace, Kiwikaki, and Naniwa should have a tournament to fill this spot as playoff winners. Each of these players would bring 10,000 more fans than alive. I thought Nasl wanted to succeed as a business.
How the hell do you think nani, kiwi, or ace have more fans than alive?
On July 03 2011 04:35 nukeazerg wrote: Idra, Nada, Ace, Kiwikaki, and Naniwa should have a tournament to fill this spot as playoff winners. Each of these players would bring 10,000 more fans than alive. I thought Nasl wanted to succeed as a business.
A business that just changes its rules/guidelines at a drop of a hat wont be successful.
I always took the guideline that he would only back-up the other open tournament guy. There is no specific wording.
But it doesn't matter how you took the rule, it only matters what NASL meant the rule to be which as we see now obviously means that he is the back up for anybody.
I don't see how you can take that rule as only the open tournament anyways. The person receives a stipend to come, so that he's at location at the finals so that if any last second problems arise for a player as in they miss flights or something than he is on location to take their position in the tournament as a back up.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
Points 1 and 2 would have sufficed, while Point 4 is irrelevant to Naniwa's question.
Point 3 is absolutely unnecessary. If I were NASL's boss and I'm trying to make it as professional as possible, I would fire Xeris straightaway for making such statements. But then I recall NASL releasing that video detailing Painuser not showing up and I am reminded that NASL is not that kind of organization.
Seriously Xeris, you are running NASL now, not some amateur online league. You should not have done that.
On July 03 2011 05:00 Chriscras wrote: ALIVE how is that even remotely fair??? Who lost to Strelok for the slot and why can't they come in his place????
This might be the last straw, I doubt I will buy another subscription for Season 2 and will just hope Season 3 never happens.
You should probably read the thread.... It's been posted about 30 times that the rules said the open bracket runner up is the back up player at the finals.
how do you justify the loser of 1 tournament is more deserving of an open spot then the next highest ranked person in the league? NASL shocks me once again. I don't understand how a league with so much money behind it can be so damn amateur. The guy fronting the money must be mega wealthy and just not give a shit how/who is running the show, he just wants to watch starcraft.
The only people who have a right to be pissed about this are the people who have to play alive who is undoubtedly (tho i'll prob get shit for this) a more dangerous player than Strelock or Naniwa.
On July 03 2011 04:35 nukeazerg wrote: Idra, Nada, Ace, Kiwikaki, and Naniwa should have a tournament to fill this spot as playoff winners. Each of these players would bring 10,000 more fans than alive. I thought Nasl wanted to succeed as a business.
If China don't qualify for the World Cup, Fifa should just invite them anyway. Don't they know how many people live in China?
On July 03 2011 05:13 crms wrote: how do you justify the loser of 1 tournament is more deserving of an open spot then the next highest ranked person in the league? NASL shocks me once again. I don't understand how a league with so much money behind it can be so damn amateur. The guy fronting the money must be mega wealthy and just not give a shit how/who is running the show, he just wants to watch starcraft.
No. If you used your brain you would realize that Alive deserves this spot much more than any of the other players. I don't even like Alive but the rules are fair and have been there for the entire season anyway. If you want to be pissed at anyone you should be pissed at Strelok for not acquiring a Visa earlier and signing up for a league without the ability to get one. Don't understand how people are turning this into an NASL bash-fest when it's 100% Strelok's fault.
I don't mean that to be mean to Strelok, as I KNOW this frustrates him and he didn't mean for any of this to happen, but it's still not NASL's fault at all.
On July 03 2011 05:17 ProxyKnoxy wrote: Where did NaNiwa publically say that NASL was a shitty league? :/
Not saying it didn't happen just curious
In the game he lost versus Darkforce in NASL.
Can I get some quotes :D? I haven't got the season pass thingy
I can't remember exactly what he said. It was something along the lines of 'finally done with NASL' once he lost. He then complained about it some more on the TL forums.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
I'm not a robot.
If you are basically saying that you guys do respond emotionally since you are human, the point people are making is that as an organization, you should try to control or overlook those emotions.
In most sports, if player is disrespectful towards an official or the organization, they face consequences (fines/bans). So i don't see any wrong doing in NASL part.
Completely agree with this. But it's all settled in the rules anyways.
On July 03 2011 05:17 ProxyKnoxy wrote: Where did NaNiwa publically say that NASL was a shitty league? :/
Not saying it didn't happen just curious
In the game he lost versus Darkforce in NASL.
Can I get some quotes :D? I haven't got the season pass thingy
I can't remember exactly what he said. It was something along the lines of 'finally done with NASL' once he lost. He then complained about it some more on the TL forums.
On July 03 2011 03:30 ErikZerg wrote: sigh, why do people have to invite koreans instead of the people who actually worked to get to play(Darkforce Naniwa etc.)
Going by your solution, next in line as stated by Xeris is actually Ace, a Korean.
that type of thinking is only because he's on an English forum...and it is expected...
Having read the entire thread I still feel like the spot should go to Naniwa.
I know people are saying that NASL are just following the rules, though I've been unable to find them myself. The only thing I could find about the format was from the NASL FAQ "At the end of the season the top two in each season will qualify to be flown to our live-finals."... which won't hold true now, since only 1 person from division 3 will be going...
But anyway's the rules really doesn't carry much weight with me, seing as NASL broke their own rules at the start of the season by inviting Strelok. And having rules which can easily be interpreted to mean 2 very different things, really doesn't do much to promote the league as proffesional.
Making a player from the open bracket the first pick for a Grand final spot, which under normal cuircomstance would be "reserved" to players of regular seasons seems wierd to me.
I think it would be more reasonable to "disquallify" Strelok from the current season, and remove all his games played from the stats, and then invite whoever would be placed second Division 3.
On July 03 2011 05:17 ProxyKnoxy wrote: Where did NaNiwa publically say that NASL was a shitty league? :/
Not saying it didn't happen just curious
In the game he lost versus Darkforce in NASL.
Can I get some quotes :D? I haven't got the season pass thingy
I can't remember exactly what he said. It was something along the lines of 'finally done with NASL' once he lost. He then complained about it some more on the TL forums.
Well if nani wants to be done with NASL, then NASL should help him be done with it
The rules already settled it so doesn't really make a difference at this point.
On July 03 2011 03:30 ErikZerg wrote: sigh, why do people have to invite koreans instead of the people who actually worked to get to play(Darkforce Naniwa etc.)
Going by your solution, next in line as stated by Xeris is actually Ace, a Korean.
Some people are just so smart, reasonable, and good at reading.
On July 03 2011 05:39 Hansibot wrote: Having read the entire thread I still feel like the spot should go to Naniwa.
I know people are saying that NASL are just following the rules, though I've been unable to find them myself. The only thing I could find about the format was from the NASL FAQ "At the end of the season the top two in each season will qualify to be flown to our live-finals."... which won't hold true now, since only 1 person from division 3 will be going...
But anyway's the rules really doesn't carry much weight with me, seing as NASL broke their own rules at the start of the season by inviting Strelok. And having rules which can easily be interpreted to mean 2 very different things, really doesn't do much to promote the league as proffesional.
Making a player from the open bracket the first pick for a Grand final spot, which under normal cuircomstance would be "reserved" to players of regular seasons seems wierd to me.
I think it would be more reasonable to "disquallify" Strelok from the current season, and remove all his games played from the stats, and then invite whoever would be placed second Division 3.
Playoff seeding>regular season seeding. ace would be the next to get the spot not naniwa. see how this can be completely subjective? anyone whose run an organization, event of any kind knows how important it is to have certain rules set in place or else chaos ensues.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
Points 1 and 2 would have sufficed, while Point 4 is irrelevant to Naniwa's question.
Point 3 is absolutely unnecessary. If I were NASL's boss and I'm trying to make it as professional as possible, I would fire Xeris straightaway for making such statements. But then I recall NASL releasing that video detailing Painuser not showing up and I am reminded that NASL is not that kind of organization.
Seriously Xeris, you are running NASL now, not some amateur online league. You should not have done that.
For god's sake people could you please stop spiting bullshit like this . First it was clearly stated how the rules work whether you like it or not . Second Naniwa had to fight in groups of 10 players for 2 spots and then he could play in the playoffs for an other chance at a spot when he finished third in his group . He had his chances to qualifiy and failed . I don't know why he would even post about this without reading the rules or he just wanted to start some drama in which he successed . Coming second in 1000+ people open qualifiers with a lot of top foreigners in it and some of the top koreans in my opinion is a lot harder then what Naniwa had to do to qualify .
If i was in Xeris's position i would not only not consider Naniwa for a replacement of Strelok i would ban him from participating in future seasons as well unless he publicly apologizes to NASL . The guy clearly has no respect for this tournament and why would he want to participate in this " shitty league " anyway . Even if Boxer himself was the one calling NASL a shitty league even thought he was invited to play for 50 000 $ he should still be banned . Of course Boxer would never say that even if the organizers have some troubles runing the league , because he respects e-sports and doesn't see it only as a way to make money - the meaning of a true professonal .
I don't mind players trash talking each other , but when you insult the people who invited you to play in a tournament as big as the NASL i don't think he should expect to be invited to play again in this tournament and should be banned from it otherwise the tournament would indeed seem unprofessional even thought Naniwa fans might disagree .
I think this thread needs streaker moderation with all the unjustified NASL bashing .
People also forget that i eliminated naniwa in the playoffs, i would personally find it to be kind of a joke to have to play him again after that... (admittedly, i'd rather play naniwa than alive, but still..) Sure there are questionable things about the NASL, but in this case the rules seem pretty clear and were known in advance, so i dont get the complaining.
On July 03 2011 05:55 DarKFoRcE wrote: People also forget that i eliminated naniwa in the playoffs, i would personally find it to be kind of a joke to have to play him again after that... (admittedly, i'd rather play naniwa than alive, but still..) Sure there are questionable things about the NASL, but in this case the rules seem pretty clear and were known in advance, so i dont get the complaining.
THINLY VEILED BRAG.
Jay kaaaay. This was the only fair way to do it. If NaNiWa actually was allowed as a replacement for Strelok then I'm sure there would be a bigger shit storm than this.
Besides, why would people rather have Naniwa anyway? Didn't he say "finally done with NASL" or something in his last game? That's pretty rude tbh. I'd rather have aLive, who probably wants to play instead of naniwa who was disrespectful. Also, aLive is a better player to boot.
On July 03 2011 05:55 DarKFoRcE wrote: People also forget that i eliminated naniwa in the playoffs, i would personally find it to be kind of a joke to have to play him again after that... (admittedly, i'd rather play naniwa than alive, but still..) Sure there are questionable things about the NASL, but in this case the rules seem pretty clear and were known in advance, so i dont get the complaining.
Yeah guys, how many times does Darkforce have to kick Naniwa's ass before you're satisfied?
I'm just joking. I love Naniwa and wish him and Idra were in the playoffs. But rules are rules.
On July 03 2011 05:39 Hansibot wrote: Having read the entire thread I still feel like the spot should go to Naniwa.
I know people are saying that NASL are just following the rules, though I've been unable to find them myself. The only thing I could find about the format was from the NASL FAQ "At the end of the season the top two in each season will qualify to be flown to our live-finals."... which won't hold true now, since only 1 person from division 3 will be going...
But anyway's the rules really doesn't carry much weight with me, seing as NASL broke their own rules at the start of the season by inviting Strelok. And having rules which can easily be interpreted to mean 2 very different things, really doesn't do much to promote the league as proffesional.
Making a player from the open bracket the first pick for a Grand final spot, which under normal cuircomstance would be "reserved" to players of regular seasons seems wierd to me.
I think it would be more reasonable to "disquallify" Strelok from the current season, and remove all his games played from the stats, and then invite whoever would be placed second Division 3.
Playoff seeding>regular season seeding. ace would be the next to get the spot not naniwa. see how this can be completely subjective? anyone whose run an organization, event of any kind knows how important it is to have certain rules set in place or else chaos ensues.
Offcourse anything can be subjective. With how the quilification to the Grand final is obtained within the League I'de say it would be reasonable to say that regular season > play off seeding. The regular season can be consideres as the "winners bracket" and the playoff as the "loosing bracket" where the people who did not place high enough got a second chance.
I do agree that any competetive organization needs rules to come off as professional, and to ensure that "public order" (for lack of a better word). But if those rules are to carry wight they need be crystal clear, and the organization needs to follow them to the letter. When they ignore them on one occasion it opens up to this whole discussion...
On July 03 2011 05:39 Hansibot wrote: Having read the entire thread I still feel like the spot should go to Naniwa.
I know people are saying that NASL are just following the rules, though I've been unable to find them myself. The only thing I could find about the format was from the NASL FAQ "At the end of the season the top two in each season will qualify to be flown to our live-finals."... which won't hold true now, since only 1 person from division 3 will be going...
But anyway's the rules really doesn't carry much weight with me, seing as NASL broke their own rules at the start of the season by inviting Strelok. And having rules which can easily be interpreted to mean 2 very different things, really doesn't do much to promote the league as proffesional.
Making a player from the open bracket the first pick for a Grand final spot, which under normal cuircomstance would be "reserved" to players of regular seasons seems wierd to me.
I think it would be more reasonable to "disquallify" Strelok from the current season, and remove all his games played from the stats, and then invite whoever would be placed second Division 3.
Playoff seeding>regular season seeding. ace would be the next to get the spot not naniwa. see how this can be completely subjective? anyone whose run an organization, event of any kind knows how important it is to have certain rules set in place or else chaos ensues.
Offcourse anything can be subjective. With how the quilification to the Grand final is obtained within the League I'de say it would be reasonable to say that regular season > play off seeding. The regular season can be consideres as the "winners bracket" and the playoff as the "loosing bracket" where the people who did not place high enough got a second chance.
I do agree that any competetive organization needs rules to come off as professional, and to ensure that "public order" (for lack of a better word). But if those rules are to carry wight they need be crystal clear, and the organization needs to follow them to the letter. When they ignore them on one occasion it opens up to this whole discussion...
I would heavily disagree. The playoffs were the higher ranked players from the regular season competing for a spot in the finals. Therefore, seedings from the playoffs are more meaningful because they're essentially the stars, or the players whose performed the best overall, of the league.
This question isn't targeted at you (Hansibot), but I wonder how many people putting this effort to bash the NASL are actually NASL haters or Naniwa riders. Would there be such an outcry if a less popular player were involved?
Futhermore, I think its mind boggling that the ACE would be the next in line if they used the playoff seedings and people are still calling for naniwa to take the place.
On July 03 2011 05:39 Hansibot wrote: Having read the entire thread I still feel like the spot should go to Naniwa.
I know people are saying that NASL are just following the rules, though I've been unable to find them myself. The only thing I could find about the format was from the NASL FAQ "At the end of the season the top two in each season will qualify to be flown to our live-finals."... which won't hold true now, since only 1 person from division 3 will be going...
But anyway's the rules really doesn't carry much weight with me, seing as NASL broke their own rules at the start of the season by inviting Strelok. And having rules which can easily be interpreted to mean 2 very different things, really doesn't do much to promote the league as proffesional.
Making a player from the open bracket the first pick for a Grand final spot, which under normal cuircomstance would be "reserved" to players of regular seasons seems wierd to me.
I think it would be more reasonable to "disquallify" Strelok from the current season, and remove all his games played from the stats, and then invite whoever would be placed second Division 3.
Playoff seeding>regular season seeding. ace would be the next to get the spot not naniwa. see how this can be completely subjective? anyone whose run an organization, event of any kind knows how important it is to have certain rules set in place or else chaos ensues.
Offcourse anything can be subjective. With how the quilification to the Grand final is obtained within the League I'de say it would be reasonable to say that regular season > play off seeding. The regular season can be consideres as the "winners bracket" and the playoff as the "loosing bracket" where the people who did not place high enough got a second chance.
I do agree that any competetive organization needs rules to come off as professional, and to ensure that "public order" (for lack of a better word). But if those rules are to carry wight they need be crystal clear, and the organization needs to follow them to the letter. When they ignore them on one occasion it opens up to this whole discussion...
I would heavily disagree. The playoffs were the higher ranked players from the regular season competing for a spot in the finals. Therefore, seedings from the playoffs are more meaningful because they're essentially the stars, or the players whose performed the best overall, of the league.
This question isn't targeted at you (Hansibot), but I wonder how many people putting this effort to bash the NASL are actually NASL haters or Naniwa riders. Would there be such an outcry if a less popular player were involved?
Futhermore, I think its mind boggling that the ACE would be the next in line if they used the playoff seedings and people are still calling for naniwa to take the place.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
Points 1 and 2 would have sufficed, while Point 4 is irrelevant to Naniwa's question.
Point 3 is absolutely unnecessary. If I were NASL's boss and I'm trying to make it as professional as possible, I would fire Xeris straightaway for making such statements. But then I recall NASL releasing that video detailing Painuser not showing up and I am reminded that NASL is not that kind of organization.
Seriously Xeris, you are running NASL now, not some amateur online league. You should not have done that.
For god's sake people could you please stop spiting bullshit like this . First it was clearly stated how the rules work whether you like it or not . Second Naniwa had to fight in groups of 10 players for 2 spots and then he could play in the playoffs for an other chance at a spot when he finished third in his group . He had his chances to qualifiy and failed . I don't know why he would even post about this without reading the rules or he just wanted to start some drama in which he successed . Coming second in 1000+ people open qualifiers with a lot of top foreigners in it and some of the top koreans in my opinion is a lot harder then what Naniwa had to do to qualify .
If i was in Xeris's position i would not only not consider Naniwa for a replacement of Strelok i would ban him from participating in future seasons as well unless he publicly apologizes to NASL . The guy clearly has no respect for this tournament and why would he want to participate in this " shitty league " anyway . Even if Boxer himself was the one calling NASL a shitty league even thought he was invited to play for 50 000 $ he should still be banned . Of course Boxer would never say that even if the organizers have some troubles runing the league , because he respects e-sports and doesn't see it only as a way to make money - the meaning of a true professonal .
I don't mind players trash talking each other , but when you insult the people who invited you to play in a tournament as big as the NASL i don't think he should expect to be invited to play again in this tournament and should be banned from it otherwise the tournament would indeed seem unprofessional even thought Naniwa fans might disagree .
I think this thread needs streaker moderation with all the unjustified NASL bashing .
You didn't read my post properly. I don't have any issues with alive replacing Strelok. NASL is just following the rules.
My complaint was Point 3 of Xeris' post. Let me give you an example: Last year incontrol criticized MLG's extended series, lack of chairs etc. Did any MLG personnel snap back at incontrol? As far as I know, no one did. Because it would be very unprofessional.
Your point is Naniwa is unprofessional for insulting NASL. Perhaps he was but NASL/Xeris should taken the high road and not appear so petty.
On July 03 2011 05:39 Hansibot wrote: Having read the entire thread I still feel like the spot should go to Naniwa.
I know people are saying that NASL are just following the rules, though I've been unable to find them myself. The only thing I could find about the format was from the NASL FAQ "At the end of the season the top two in each season will qualify to be flown to our live-finals."... which won't hold true now, since only 1 person from division 3 will be going...
But anyway's the rules really doesn't carry much weight with me, seing as NASL broke their own rules at the start of the season by inviting Strelok. And having rules which can easily be interpreted to mean 2 very different things, really doesn't do much to promote the league as proffesional.
Making a player from the open bracket the first pick for a Grand final spot, which under normal cuircomstance would be "reserved" to players of regular seasons seems wierd to me.
I think it would be more reasonable to "disquallify" Strelok from the current season, and remove all his games played from the stats, and then invite whoever would be placed second Division 3.
Playoff seeding>regular season seeding. ace would be the next to get the spot not naniwa. see how this can be completely subjective? anyone whose run an organization, event of any kind knows how important it is to have certain rules set in place or else chaos ensues.
Offcourse anything can be subjective. With how the quilification to the Grand final is obtained within the League I'de say it would be reasonable to say that regular season > play off seeding. The regular season can be consideres as the "winners bracket" and the playoff as the "loosing bracket" where the people who did not place high enough got a second chance.
I do agree that any competetive organization needs rules to come off as professional, and to ensure that "public order" (for lack of a better word). But if those rules are to carry wight they need be crystal clear, and the organization needs to follow them to the letter. When they ignore them on one occasion it opens up to this whole discussion...
I would heavily disagree. The playoffs were the higher ranked players from the regular season competing for a spot in the finals. Therefore, seedings from the playoffs are more meaningful because they're essentially the stars, or the players whose performed the best overall, of the league.
This question isn't targeted at you (Hansibot), but I wonder how many people putting this effort to bash the NASL are actually NASL haters or Naniwa riders. Would there be such an outcry if a less popular player were involved?
Futhermore, I think its mind boggling that the ACE would be the next in line if they used the playoff seedings and people are still calling for naniwa to take the place.
I'll admit I havn't really been following NASL, so i'm not 100% certain, but from what I can tell in the regular season there were 5 groups of 10 people, and the top 2 people in each group qualified directly to the Grand Final. Of the 40 people who didn't qualify the top 20 gets a second chance in the playoff, where they will play in 5 devisions of 4, with nr. 1 in each decision qualifying for the grand final.
If my understanding above is correct I'd say that regualr season is > playoffs. Especially seeing as the winenrs from the play-off are seeded 11-15 in the Grand final, and the people who qualified directly from the reguarler season are seeded 1-10.
I can't speak for anyone ells, but I'm personally not a NASL hater nor am I a fan. NASL is just to long for my taste. I havn't actually browsed their site untill today. That might be why it couldnt hold my attention as every time I watched a stream they were showing a final, but the final wasn't the end of the season ;S. I'm also not a Naniwa rider(fan?). The only thing I remember about him is him chocking in the finals of the homestory cup agains Huk ;D.
The reason why I'd want naniwa to take the spot, is that in my head it's only logical that the grand-final spot is kept with-in the devision of the player who forfeited the spot.
On July 03 2011 06:11 Bobster wrote: Didn't expect the mods to be so lenient towards the obvious trolls in here. TL usually has better standards of moderation. It's a bit disappointing.
Don't be silly. TL doesn't mod IPL or NASL hate.
For that alone I hope Ret gets raped by puma or alive. No offense Ret, you're a great player, but the organization that makes a giant post about how you finished top seed in this "amazing, great,important" tournament and hype hype hype and then allows this shit to happen on that tournament's threads....bs.
Coundown to how fast I get warned for this post starts now.
I also want to restate to people who are not reading thoroughly, that from what I gathered from reading this thread is that ACE is the playoffs replacement for Strelok.
So even if NASL changed the rules, Naniwa wouldn't be going unless ACE said no.
Why Naniwa is upset when he isn't even a contender for the spot is beyond me, ESPECIALLY when he stated that he was happy to be done with the NASL. Whine much?
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
Points 1 and 2 would have sufficed, while Point 4 is irrelevant to Naniwa's question.
Point 3 is absolutely unnecessary. If I were NASL's boss and I'm trying to make it as professional as possible, I would fire Xeris straightaway for making such statements. But then I recall NASL releasing that video detailing Painuser not showing up and I am reminded that NASL is not that kind of organization.
Seriously Xeris, you are running NASL now, not some amateur online league. You should not have done that.
For god's sake people could you please stop spiting bullshit like this . First it was clearly stated how the rules work whether you like it or not . Second Naniwa had to fight in groups of 10 players for 2 spots and then he could play in the playoffs for an other chance at a spot when he finished third in his group . He had his chances to qualifiy and failed . I don't know why he would even post about this without reading the rules or he just wanted to start some drama in which he successed . Coming second in 1000+ people open qualifiers with a lot of top foreigners in it and some of the top koreans in my opinion is a lot harder then what Naniwa had to do to qualify .
If i was in Xeris's position i would not only not consider Naniwa for a replacement of Strelok i would ban him from participating in future seasons as well unless he publicly apologizes to NASL . The guy clearly has no respect for this tournament and why would he want to participate in this " shitty league " anyway . Even if Boxer himself was the one calling NASL a shitty league even thought he was invited to play for 50 000 $ he should still be banned . Of course Boxer would never say that even if the organizers have some troubles runing the league , because he respects e-sports and doesn't see it only as a way to make money - the meaning of a true professonal .
I don't mind players trash talking each other , but when you insult the people who invited you to play in a tournament as big as the NASL i don't think he should expect to be invited to play again in this tournament and should be banned from it otherwise the tournament would indeed seem unprofessional even thought Naniwa fans might disagree .
I think this thread needs streaker moderation with all the unjustified NASL bashing .
You didn't read my post properly. I don't have any issues with alive replacing Strelok. NASL is just following the rules.
My complaint was Point 3 of Xeris' post. Let me give you an example: Last year incontrol criticized MLG's extended series, lack of chairs etc. Did any MLG personnel snap back at incontrol? As far as I know, no one did. Because it would be very unprofessional.
Your point is Naniwa is unprofessional for insulting NASL. Perhaps he was but NASL/Xeris should taken the high road and not appear so petty.
There're differences between constructive criticizing (the rules are not good, not enough chair), and outright insulting (shitty league overall).
On July 03 2011 05:39 Hansibot wrote: Having read the entire thread I still feel like the spot should go to Naniwa.
I know people are saying that NASL are just following the rules, though I've been unable to find them myself. The only thing I could find about the format was from the NASL FAQ "At the end of the season the top two in each season will qualify to be flown to our live-finals."... which won't hold true now, since only 1 person from division 3 will be going...
But anyway's the rules really doesn't carry much weight with me, seing as NASL broke their own rules at the start of the season by inviting Strelok. And having rules which can easily be interpreted to mean 2 very different things, really doesn't do much to promote the league as proffesional.
Making a player from the open bracket the first pick for a Grand final spot, which under normal cuircomstance would be "reserved" to players of regular seasons seems wierd to me.
I think it would be more reasonable to "disquallify" Strelok from the current season, and remove all his games played from the stats, and then invite whoever would be placed second Division 3.
Playoff seeding>regular season seeding. ace would be the next to get the spot not naniwa. see how this can be completely subjective? anyone whose run an organization, event of any kind knows how important it is to have certain rules set in place or else chaos ensues.
Offcourse anything can be subjective. With how the quilification to the Grand final is obtained within the League I'de say it would be reasonable to say that regular season > play off seeding. The regular season can be consideres as the "winners bracket" and the playoff as the "loosing bracket" where the people who did not place high enough got a second chance.
I do agree that any competetive organization needs rules to come off as professional, and to ensure that "public order" (for lack of a better word). But if those rules are to carry wight they need be crystal clear, and the organization needs to follow them to the letter. When they ignore them on one occasion it opens up to this whole discussion...
I would heavily disagree. The playoffs were the higher ranked players from the regular season competing for a spot in the finals. Therefore, seedings from the playoffs are more meaningful because they're essentially the stars, or the players whose performed the best overall, of the league.
This question isn't targeted at you (Hansibot), but I wonder how many people putting this effort to bash the NASL are actually NASL haters or Naniwa riders. Would there be such an outcry if a less popular player were involved?
Futhermore, I think its mind boggling that the ACE would be the next in line if they used the playoff seedings and people are still calling for naniwa to take the place.
I'll admit I havn't really been following NASL, so i'm not 100% certain, but from what I can tell in the regular season there were 5 groups of 10 people, and the top 2 people in each group qualified directly to the Grand Final. Of the 40 people who didn't qualify the top 20 gets a second chance in the playoff, where they will play in 5 devisions of 4, with nr. 1 in each decision qualifying for the grand final.
If my understanding above is correct I'd say that regualr season is > playoffs. Especially seeing as the winenrs from the play-off are seeded 11-15 in the Grand final, and the people who qualified directly from the reguarler season are seeded 1-10.
I'm also not 100% sure but I think youre description is accurate. However, Because the winners of the playoffs are seeded 11-15th, I felt that the next person in line, I guess that would be 16th place, would be the next most deserving. Since they were actually able to make the playoffs but get edged out. I believe the next person in line was Ace, and then Naniwa.
I'm actually a nani fan myself but like others I got annoyed by the trolling in this thread.
Btw Naniwa rider = a blind fan who "rides" naniwas every move - right or wrong. Rider is more of a basketball terminology i guess =p
On July 03 2011 05:55 DarKFoRcE wrote: People also forget that i eliminated naniwa in the playoffs, i would personally find it to be kind of a joke to have to play him again after that... (admittedly, i'd rather play naniwa than alive, but still..) Sure there are questionable things about the NASL, but in this case the rules seem pretty clear and were known in advance, so i dont get the complaining.
Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
This is the reason I don't watch NASL, you're a joke as an organization.
On July 03 2011 05:39 Hansibot wrote: Having read the entire thread I still feel like the spot should go to Naniwa.
I know people are saying that NASL are just following the rules, though I've been unable to find them myself. The only thing I could find about the format was from the NASL FAQ "At the end of the season the top two in each season will qualify to be flown to our live-finals."... which won't hold true now, since only 1 person from division 3 will be going...
But anyway's the rules really doesn't carry much weight with me, seing as NASL broke their own rules at the start of the season by inviting Strelok. And having rules which can easily be interpreted to mean 2 very different things, really doesn't do much to promote the league as proffesional.
Making a player from the open bracket the first pick for a Grand final spot, which under normal cuircomstance would be "reserved" to players of regular seasons seems wierd to me.
I think it would be more reasonable to "disquallify" Strelok from the current season, and remove all his games played from the stats, and then invite whoever would be placed second Division 3.
Playoff seeding>regular season seeding. ace would be the next to get the spot not naniwa. see how this can be completely subjective? anyone whose run an organization, event of any kind knows how important it is to have certain rules set in place or else chaos ensues.
Offcourse anything can be subjective. With how the quilification to the Grand final is obtained within the League I'de say it would be reasonable to say that regular season > play off seeding. The regular season can be consideres as the "winners bracket" and the playoff as the "loosing bracket" where the people who did not place high enough got a second chance.
I do agree that any competetive organization needs rules to come off as professional, and to ensure that "public order" (for lack of a better word). But if those rules are to carry wight they need be crystal clear, and the organization needs to follow them to the letter. When they ignore them on one occasion it opens up to this whole discussion...
I would heavily disagree. The playoffs were the higher ranked players from the regular season competing for a spot in the finals. Therefore, seedings from the playoffs are more meaningful because they're essentially the stars, or the players whose performed the best overall, of the league.
This question isn't targeted at you (Hansibot), but I wonder how many people putting this effort to bash the NASL are actually NASL haters or Naniwa riders. Would there be such an outcry if a less popular player were involved?
Futhermore, I think its mind boggling that the ACE would be the next in line if they used the playoff seedings and people are still calling for naniwa to take the place.
I'll admit I havn't really been following NASL, so i'm not 100% certain, but from what I can tell in the regular season there were 5 groups of 10 people, and the top 2 people in each group qualified directly to the Grand Final. Of the 40 people who didn't qualify the top 20 gets a second chance in the playoff, where they will play in 5 devisions of 4, with nr. 1 in each decision qualifying for the grand final.
If my understanding above is correct I'd say that regualr season is > playoffs. Especially seeing as the winenrs from the play-off are seeded 11-15 in the Grand final, and the people who qualified directly from the reguarler season are seeded 1-10.
I'm also not 100% sure but I think youre description is accurate. However, Because the winners of the playoffs are seeded 11-15th, I felt that the next person in line, I guess that would be 16th place, would be the next most deserving. Since they were actually able to make the playoffs but get edged out. I believe the next person in line was Ace, and then Naniwa.
I'm actually a nani fan myself but like others I got annoyed by the trolling in this thread.
Btw Naniwa rider = a blind fan who "rides" naniwas every move - right or wrong. Rider is more of a basketball terminology i guess =p
He'd only get that spot if Alive+Ace both declined... so he wasn't ever going to get it either way
On July 03 2011 05:39 Hansibot wrote: Having read the entire thread I still feel like the spot should go to Naniwa.
I know people are saying that NASL are just following the rules, though I've been unable to find them myself. The only thing I could find about the format was from the NASL FAQ "At the end of the season the top two in each season will qualify to be flown to our live-finals."... which won't hold true now, since only 1 person from division 3 will be going...
But anyway's the rules really doesn't carry much weight with me, seing as NASL broke their own rules at the start of the season by inviting Strelok. And having rules which can easily be interpreted to mean 2 very different things, really doesn't do much to promote the league as proffesional.
Making a player from the open bracket the first pick for a Grand final spot, which under normal cuircomstance would be "reserved" to players of regular seasons seems wierd to me.
I think it would be more reasonable to "disquallify" Strelok from the current season, and remove all his games played from the stats, and then invite whoever would be placed second Division 3.
Wow you people.
If it was done the other way, as in the replacement spot was given to someone from the regular season, it would go to ACE NOT NANIWA. Plus, Naniwa denounced the NASL, and will not be competing next season.
Also, once again, Ace would be next in line, not Naniwa.
So you still think that Naniwa should get the spot even though Ace did better then him? You did read the whole thread right? That's some bias right there.
People sometimes >.>
Plus, in your reasoning that if Strelok was removed, and Naniwa would finish second then, if it was another player in his spot (Strelok's) Naniwa would have still lost that match since you know, he didn't bother to show up.
Considering all the efforts everyone involved put to get him a visa and the amount of time they had, it's very clear that the ones who deserve to be denounced here are in the US immigration departement (or whatever it's called). It is absolutely ridiculous that honest people have to wait MONTHS just to get a damn visa in this day and age.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
agreed. think of how many times idra has slandered or bad mouthed various people and admins on TL -- while he may get banned from the forums, just being a douche isn't going to stop TL from letting him play in tournaments, because he's one of the best in the world, as is naniwa
Well that's not what happened so why cloud the issue by complaining about it?
because xeris is the one who brought it up in the first place.
i agree with you, anyway. i'm still excited to watch the grand finals
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
While part 1 and 2 make sense. 3 is very unnecessary and unprofessional. You are representing a supposedly professional organization. You could have easily addressed the issue without those comments.
agreed. think of how many times idra has slandered or bad mouthed various people and admins on TL -- while he may get banned from the forums, just being a douche isn't going to stop TL from letting him play in tournaments, because he's one of the best in the world, as is naniwa
I don't agree with this. First, which part from the RULES of NASL you don't understand. Second, Idra, being BM thats true, but most of the time hes just BM toward a person. I don't think Idra ever insult or called TL any thing very bad.
TL also is a forum where people can express their opinions. There is no TL as an business organization unlike NASL, they are an business organization just like many league organizer out there, so they can ban, fine people that talk shit about them.
there's nothing more to be said here other than you're completely wrong. idra has personally insulted TL admins many times. and although TL is a community unlike any other, there is a business component there.
As I see it it was a bad rule but they have no choice but to follow it now. Then again, why would they follow the rule now since they didn't care much for rules when Strelok applied without a VISA. Personally I would much rather see a legue player fill in for a league player, ACE would be awesome.
OT. Not sure why NASL is so openly flaming naniwa, season 1 had its flaws. I pay to watch and it's the player pool that makes me pay. Can't see what getting on worse terms with a great player will achieve.
On July 03 2011 08:57 Krimancer wrote: As I see it it was a bad rule but they have no choice but to follow it now. Then again, why would they follow the rule now since they didn't care much for rules when Strelok applied without a VISA. Personally I would much rather see a legue player fill in for a league player, ACE would be awesome.
OT. Not sure why NASL is so openly flaming naniwa, season 1 had its flaws. I pay to watch and it's the player pool that makes me pay. Can't see what getting on worse terms with a great player will achieve.
Openly flaming him? It's the other way around bud. How is stating how Naniwa denounced and slandered the league, and saying we would be hesitant to invite him because of that, "flaming him". Like wtf?!?
i know rules are rules but there shit rules if someone from open bracket plays in a week long tournament gets priority over someone who committed to the whole season, i thought he was backup if the 16th seed couldn't make it.
lol what a shitty rule that the runner up of the open qualifier replaces a missing player first. wouldve been to easy to make rules that make sense i guess.
lmao why would koreans even bother waking up at 3am to play in lag when they can just win a tournament instead, get directly seeded in, and then if someone is unable to make it the person who didn't even win can replace them instead of one of the people who played out the entire season? How silly.
I can't say I agree with the decision of who replaced Strelok. Does this mean that the winner of the open tournament is seeded number 1? Because effectivly a runner up player from outside the main tournament has been seeded higher than the runner up players who had to duke it out all season.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
this +1, or whoever in the league as the righteous replacement. i cant believe that NASL gave a free pass for an outsider directly into the grand finals matches. i am sure NASL can give us a nice (made up) reason but i feel sorry for the players who have spent so many hours participated in NASL so far. would love to hear the 'real' reason tho
It just sucks for DarkForce because he has to prepare for a different player. He has know for a couple weeks that he was facing Stelok, but not anymore. GL to everyone!
NASL has problems, and thats shitty to say it's a bad tournament as a huge role model of esports (altho i haven't seen this, so just trusting), but you're only reinforcing that idea by saying you wouldn't want to invite him cause you have a problem with him personally.
Nani is an amazing player and it would be much more publicity to have him show up than alive. since this was your rules from the start though, it makes perfect sense... but you should have said that, and stopped there, also, if you're just jabbing back at him, then who gives a shit, this is teamliquid, where you post as yourself instead of a PR guy, i just hope it's not affecting your business decisions and you aren't throwing Naniwa out of consideration for season 2 cause a little comment.
And if you do, i swear to god i will BURN NASL TO THE GROUND!!! lol nah, jp but seriously, it'll keep a lot of people interested
On July 03 2011 19:16 superjoppe wrote: The third argument of Xeris is just childish. The season had a bunch of problems and it should be perfectly ok to talk about them.
talk about them != shitting on nasl
either way it doesn't matter, because naniwa hasen't been the first choice because of the rules anyway
Sad for strelock. I dont think placing the runner up of the open bracket into the top 16 is the right call espicially when the are 35 others who played for 10 weeks and did not get offered tho position.
On July 03 2011 19:16 superjoppe wrote: The third argument of Xeris is just childish. The season had a bunch of problems and it should be perfectly ok to talk about them.
talk about them != shitting on nasl
either way it doesn't matter, because naniwa hasen't been the first choice because of the rules anyway
so because ace doesnt post on teamliquid its ok to have stupid rules?
i just dont see the logical reasoning in having the backup to your pool play players come from the open bracket. the person to replace strelok should surely be the person 3rd in his group, the person directly hurt by a player being in the league who in the end couldnt actually qualify for the finals?
On July 03 2011 05:39 Hansibot wrote: Having read the entire thread I still feel like the spot should go to Naniwa.
I know people are saying that NASL are just following the rules, though I've been unable to find them myself. The only thing I could find about the format was from the NASL FAQ "At the end of the season the top two in each season will qualify to be flown to our live-finals."... which won't hold true now, since only 1 person from division 3 will be going...
But anyway's the rules really doesn't carry much weight with me, seing as NASL broke their own rules at the start of the season by inviting Strelok. And having rules which can easily be interpreted to mean 2 very different things, really doesn't do much to promote the league as proffesional.
Making a player from the open bracket the first pick for a Grand final spot, which under normal cuircomstance would be "reserved" to players of regular seasons seems wierd to me.
I think it would be more reasonable to "disquallify" Strelok from the current season, and remove all his games played from the stats, and then invite whoever would be placed second Division 3.
Wow you people.
If it was done the other way, as in the replacement spot was given to someone from the regular season, it would go to ACE NOT NANIWA. Plus, Naniwa denounced the NASL, and will not be competing next season.
Also, once again, Ace would be next in line, not Naniwa.
So you still think that Naniwa should get the spot even though Ace did better then him? You did read the whole thread right? That's some bias right there.
People sometimes >.>
Plus, in your reasoning that if Strelok was removed, and Naniwa would finish second then, if it was another player in his spot (Strelok's) Naniwa would have still lost that match since you know, he didn't bother to show up.
You people? - Mind tellin me what stereotype group your associating me with?
My whole post is about who I think should have the spot (what I think would be fair), not what NASL decided, or what the rules say, as I have zero influence of that. So theres no need to hyperbold Ace.
And yes I read the entire thread, and yes I still think Naniwa should get the spot, even if Ace has a better record in the regular season. When they devided people into devisions it opens up for the chance that it won't be the people with the best stats who gets throgh to the final.
As an example you could have devision A where the top 3 people had scores of 9-0, 8-1 and 7-2, and the best from, devision B with a 6-3 scores. So according to the stats the 3rd place from group A is better then nr. 1 from group B, but still doesn't get qualified.
If you look at the devisions you'll se morrow with 7-2, (7 points), ace with 7-2 (7 points) and Zenio with 7-2 (10 points), and yet none of them got directly qualified, but WhiteRa did with 6-3 (5 points).
That's the reason I think Naniwa should get the spot. - not because he's the best player, or i'm a fanboy or biased. But because the format has been that each division is a seperate entity (in the regular season), and the 2 people with the best stat/most point in a devision gets qualified to the grand finale. So when one of the qualified from a division can't attend (or is disqualified), my logic dictates that the next person in the same division should get the spot.
clearly i missunderstood how they chose the replacement player, i did not mean to start up any flamewar or anything of the sort. I sincerely wish you good luck in the next season of NASL because it is no easy feat having players from all over the world in one online tournament. i am also sure it will only be better on the admin part as you get more and more experience! good luck!
And to think, after all that drama with Nightend not getting invited due to Visa problems, and NASL flaunting the fact that Bratok and other players showed proof they could get their visa, we run into this problem. What a shame...
On July 03 2011 19:16 superjoppe wrote: The third argument of Xeris is just childish. The season had a bunch of problems and it should be perfectly ok to talk about them.
talk about them != shitting on nasl
either way it doesn't matter, because naniwa hasen't been the first choice because of the rules anyway
so because ace doesnt post on teamliquid its ok to have stupid rules?
i just dont see the logical reasoning in having the backup to your pool play players come from the open bracket. the person to replace strelok should surely be the person 3rd in his group, the person directly hurt by a player being in the league who in the end couldnt actually qualify for the finals?
nasl had those rules, if they see that this rule is not good then they'll probably change it next season. For this season it would be unfair to alive otherwise
On July 03 2011 01:08 tsuxiit wrote: That blows. I thought a requirement to entering the tournament was actually having a valid visa?
As we said at the start of the season, Strelok was the 'risk' player we accepted, because his team Mouz assured us that he could get a VISA on time.
Obviously, this is exactly the reason we had this rule, so now all the people complaining why we didn't invite certain players know why >_>! It's obviously very frustrating for us because we put about 30 hours of work preparing material for Strelok and now it's gone to waste, and we might not have time to prepare stuff for aLive. It's really frustrating for Strelok as well because he tried everything he could to get the VISA. Also sucks for DarkForcE for obvious reasons. It just sucks for everyone except aLive, great for him! =D
I was one of the detractors for that decision because I didn't expect these problems to persist in 2011 - looks like your cautious approach was right after all, in hindsight.
On July 03 2011 01:13 GinDo wrote: Well. Personally i find it to be Streloks fault. Your participating in International Tournaments, that may very well require you to travel. He should have applied for his Visa ages ago.
IMHO
On July 03 2011 01:13 SimDawg wrote: Pretty crappy by Mousesports to assure you he could get a visa and then not deliver. I thought these were supposed to be professional businesses?
According to his post, he applied for the visa a day after applying for the NASL, one month before the start of the league. How could he have known that due to regulations of the U.S. it takes 3 months to get a visa?
On July 03 2011 20:21 Naniwa wrote: clearly i missunderstood how they chose the replacement player, i did not mean to start up any flamewar or anything of the sort. I sincerely wish you good luck in the next season of NASL because it is no easy feat having players from all over the world in one online tournament. i am also sure it will only be better on the admin part as you get more and more experience! good luck!
Haha, sure sucks to be so popular. Before you realize your own mistake and correct it, several dozen people already picked it up, debating about it over several pages. ^^"
Shouldn't there be another high ranking player from the groups to advance rather than alive? It seems unfair for players who played all that time not to make it. I would prefer to see Naniwa, Idra or Ace because I spent so much time watching their matches, to have 1/8th of the tournament compete for the finals when they did not participate in the league and I didn't get to see them compete against anyone is very disappoint from a fan's point of view.
Before more people whine about why Naniwa is the one replacing Strelok the OP should be edited to include the reasons as to why aLive is the one replacing Strelok
On July 03 2011 19:16 superjoppe wrote: The third argument of Xeris is just childish. The season had a bunch of problems and it should be perfectly ok to talk about them.
talk about them != shitting on nasl
either way it doesn't matter, because naniwa hasen't been the first choice because of the rules anyway
so because ace doesnt post on teamliquid its ok to have stupid rules?
i just dont see the logical reasoning in having the backup to your pool play players come from the open bracket. the person to replace strelok should surely be the person 3rd in his group, the person directly hurt by a player being in the league who in the end couldnt actually qualify for the finals?
nasl had those rules, if they see that this rule is not good then they'll probably change it next season. For this season it would be unfair to alive otherwise
but if u look at xeris's explanation he cites both the rules and naniwa's apparent BM. it was either in the rules and bringing up naniwa's opinion on the league is an irrelevant personal attack, or nasl is a popularity contest ;/
On July 03 2011 19:16 superjoppe wrote: The third argument of Xeris is just childish. The season had a bunch of problems and it should be perfectly ok to talk about them.
talk about them != shitting on nasl
either way it doesn't matter, because naniwa hasen't been the first choice because of the rules anyway
so because ace doesnt post on teamliquid its ok to have stupid rules?
i just dont see the logical reasoning in having the backup to your pool play players come from the open bracket. the person to replace strelok should surely be the person 3rd in his group, the person directly hurt by a player being in the league who in the end couldnt actually qualify for the finals?
nasl had those rules, if they see that this rule is not good then they'll probably change it next season. For this season it would be unfair to alive otherwise
but if u look at xeris's explanation he cites both the rules and naniwa's apparent BM. it was either in the rules and bringing up naniwa's opinion on the league is an irrelevant personal attack, or nasl is a popularity contest ;/
You'd be hardpressed to find any sports league who will not fine/ban a player for badmouthing the league. What Xeris and the NASL did is enforce a rule they had set in place ages ago and further explained that BMing said league isn't going to get you any favors.
I can list examples of of stars from other sports leagues talking trash about the organization and the officials and how they were met with swift punishment. The NASL isn't any different.
I don't see why people want the NASL to enforce the rules AND want them to hand out favors as well.
On July 03 2011 20:21 Naniwa wrote: clearly i missunderstood how they chose the replacement player, i did not mean to start up any flamewar or anything of the sort. I sincerely wish you good luck in the next season of NASL because it is no easy feat having players from all over the world in one online tournament. i am also sure it will only be better on the admin part as you get more and more experience! good luck!
It is all cool with us Naniwa. But this whole debacle was unnecessary IMO.
Hope you made up with NASL and see you there in future. Also good luck in GSL and GSTL.
To be honest.. I don't know why Naniwa would want to waste his time with NASL when he has to think and practise for the GSL and GSTL. Just my opinion though.
I wish someone who actually competed in the main tournament got to use Strelok's spot, I know the open tournament must have been tough but Alive just wasn't there for the whole thing.
On July 04 2011 05:44 MonkSEA wrote: To be honest.. I don't know why Naniwa would want to waste his time with NASL when he has to think and practise for the GSL and GSTL. Just my opinion though.
does 100k sound enough reason to you?
It's not like he is the only GSL participant who take their time off to prepare for NASAL. Someone actually wakes up 4 in the morning to play those matches.
Good lord. It always amazes me how deliberately blind people can be. It seems like every thread is plagued with people who continue to argue and rant and raveand make idiotic assertions and assumptions about things for 20+ pages after all questions have already been answered.
While I do find the rule curious (there are definitely good arguments to be made both for it and against it), the fact that people are saying NASL should ignore it and is horrible for enforcing it are hilarious. Criticism for letting Strelok in at all, given the rule regarding that, however, I think is entirely justified. NASL wouldn't be in this position if they hadn't made the exception in the first place, and I think it's turned out poorly for everyone - Not just Strelok and the NASL, but also the fans and other competitors who were in the same position as Strelok, but WEREN'T given an exception to compete.
And while I feel like it probably clouded the issue somewhat (since people here apparently have no reading comprehension skills)I also fully support Xeris' first comment to Naniwa about there being repercussions for publically bashing the league you're competing in. Naniwa saying what he did when he thought he was out, and then complaining when he thoughy he had another chance at the money, is also pretty classy.
In regards to the comparisons to IdrA, has he ever publically bashed, say, the TSL? I haven't been here a long time, so I actually don't know. I know he has a history of butting heads with mods here, but I think if he were to go on record saying he thought the TSL was trash, he might not get an invite back. But then again, he might, I don't know.
Anyway, I personally don't like anyone from the open bracket getting into the finals, because as someone already said, it would be SUPREMELY disappointing to watch players compete for two months, and invest yourself in them, and then see someone come in out of the open bracket to win it all, so I do hope that changes for season two. In the meantime, however, good luck to everyone still in it.
On July 03 2011 01:08 tsuxiit wrote: That blows. I thought a requirement to entering the tournament was actually having a valid visa?
As we said at the start of the season, Strelok was the 'risk' player we accepted, because his team Mouz assured us that he could get a VISA on time.
Obviously, this is exactly the reason we had this rule, so now all the people complaining why we didn't invite certain players know why >_>! It's obviously very frustrating for us because we put about 30 hours of work preparing material for Strelok and now it's gone to waste, and we might not have time to prepare stuff for aLive. It's really frustrating for Strelok as well because he tried everything he could to get the VISA. Also sucks for DarkForcE for obvious reasons. It just sucks for everyone except aLive, great for him! =D
I distinctly remember Nightend declaring that he could get a Visa on time without any problem but that you demanded proof of a visa at the time of signing of the contract which was too short a time for him. What part am I not understanding?
thanks for what? causing troubles? i still cant understand why NightEnd couldnt play and Strelok could ...
How many more times does xeris have to state it.
THey only wanted to take ONE at risk player, they determined they wanted strelok over Nightend, both were risk players, so only one was given an invite.
thanks for what? causing troubles? i still cant understand why NightEnd couldnt play and Strelok could ...
How many more times does xeris have to state it.
THey only wanted to take ONE at risk player, they determined they wanted strelok over Nightend, both were risk players, so only one was given an invite.
I dont remember him ever saying in the original application thread that he only wanted to take one "at risk" player please show me because the discussion in that went on for pages too. What he said was that all the other players had proven that they could get a visa Nightend hadnt.
Also Xeris is Nighends manager is he not? Although after all this happened to my memory
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
this +1, or whoever in the league as the righteous replacement. i cant believe that NASL gave a free pass for an outsider directly into the grand finals matches. i am sure NASL can give us a nice (made up) reason but i feel sorry for the players who have spent so many hours participated in NASL so far. would love to hear the 'real' reason tho
I hope you are trolling. It has been repeated many MANY times that they just followed the already existing rules. That's the ''real'' reason.
As for NightEnd -- once again: Romania is a "high risk" country, as are Russia, Ukraine, and Poland (just because Romania is in the EU doesn't mean they have a VISA waiver program... which they don't, which makes it automatically more difficult to get a VISA to the US). We didn't want to have multiple "high risk" players in the league due to obvious reasons. What if more than 1 of them qualifies for the finals, can't get a VISA, and don't show up? That ruins our live event completely.
White-Ra has demonstrated an ability to come to the US, BRAT_OK showed us his VISA, as did Strelok. So we were really left with two players (MaNa and NightEnd) from "high risk" countries. We only wanted to select 1; we chose MaNa. As I said multiple times before -- I should have explicitly stated the need for a VISA. I mistakenly thought it was obvious that people outside the US would ask about it considering the contract states that you must guarantee your ability to enter the US. It was my fault for not explicitly stating that they needed a VISA.
So my question for Xeris, how could you have seen Strelok's VISA when he hadn't even applied for it?
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
You dissed NASL on NASL's stream if I recall correctly. I'd rather have Alive as a fan.
Uhm, if that diss in any way affected the decision then NASL is a joke organization. Either you follow the rules or disquilify Naniwa (which they haven't) for breaking some kind of rule. You don't arbitrarily pick a replacement player based on preference by the people in charge. That said, as I've understood it alive is the correct backup player so I don't have a problem with that but Naniwa's comments regarding the NASL should have nothing to do with it.
On July 03 2011 01:08 tsuxiit wrote: That blows. I thought a requirement to entering the tournament was actually having a valid visa?
As we said at the start of the season, Strelok was the 'risk' player we accepted, because his team Mouz assured us that he could get a VISA on time.
Obviously, this is exactly the reason we had this rule, so now all the people complaining why we didn't invite certain players know why >_>! It's obviously very frustrating for us because we put about 30 hours of work preparing material for Strelok and now it's gone to waste, and we might not have time to prepare stuff for aLive. It's really frustrating for Strelok as well because he tried everything he could to get the VISA. Also sucks for DarkForcE for obvious reasons. It just sucks for everyone except aLive, great for him! =D
This is the problem that bothers me. You deliberately broke your own rules to allow strelok in, so you've proven your "flexibility" with the rule system already - it seems odd to me that you're now suddenly deciding to use "THESE ARE THE RULES" as the blanket excuse for everything. Don't get me wrong - I highly advocate following the set rules and I feel NASL has dealt with this current issue well, but since strelok's presence was a breach in the first place, the entire chain of event's gotten corrupt. The argument about following the rules is flawed, as the rules were broken originally in this chain.
Realise that this is a breach of trust from NASL. Either you treat the rules as vague guidelines, or you follow the rules without exeption. Anything in between, and the entire organization is far too unreliable to be taken seriously or professionally.
This is of course not the end of the world or the end of NASL, but please bear in mind that if you want to use rule-thumping as an argument for descision making, then make sure to actually follow those rules. I know strelok is an excellent player and a respected, long-standing member of the BW and SC2 community, but that doesn't make breaking the rules on his behalf acceptable.
As for the case of naniwa..
Show no respect, and you'll get none in return. NASL participation is not a FSM-given right - it's a privilege. If you cannot stay professional, then you have no room in a professional league. I completely agree with xeris' comment about him.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
You dissed NASL on NASL's stream if I recall correctly. I'd rather have Alive as a fan.
Uhm, if that diss in any way affected the decision then NASL is a joke organization. Either you follow the rules or disquilify Naniwa (which they haven't) for breaking some kind of rule. You don't arbitrarily pick a replacement player based on preference by the people in charge. That said, as I've understood it alive is the correct backup player so I don't have a problem with that but Naniwa's comments regarding the NASL should have nothing to do with it.
Never said it does (although I can see the mistake). Obviously, I have no knowledge of NASL's decision making. All my info about this comes from this thread, and seems on the up and up. I'm just happy with the result as a fan.
In my experience, even getting a Visa in America can be a problem. It took me nearly 2 months just to get an appointment for a Visa to go to Spain.
I imagine that procuring a Visa is even more difficult for him given the tension between the two countries, as someone pointed out. Also, if he was unable to make an earlier appointment or the staff themselves canceled and postponed his Visa appointment, this very well may not have been his fault.
My regards to Strelok on this issue, because obtaining a Visa sucks wherever you are and I'm betting he and the NASL did everything they could. I don't think this is a matter of poor planning (on his part anyway).
I feel like it would be unprofessional for NASL to discriminate somehow against Naniwa just because he said unfavorable things about it. But I don't really know much about the issue so I could have a completely uninformed opinion on the matter. There's probably (hopefully) more to it, as I'd like to think that NASL is more professional and reasonable than that.
As for NightEnd -- once again: Romania is a "high risk" country, as are Russia, Ukraine, and Poland (just because Romania is in the EU doesn't mean they have a VISA waiver program... which they don't, which makes it automatically more difficult to get a VISA to the US). We didn't want to have multiple "high risk" players in the league due to obvious reasons. What if more than 1 of them qualifies for the finals, can't get a VISA, and don't show up? That ruins our live event completely.
White-Ra has demonstrated an ability to come to the US, BRAT_OK showed us his VISA, as did Strelok. So we were really left with two players (MaNa and NightEnd) from "high risk" countries. We only wanted to select 1; we chose MaNa. As I said multiple times before -- I should have explicitly stated the need for a VISA. I mistakenly thought it was obvious that people outside the US would ask about it considering the contract states that you must guarantee your ability to enter the US. It was my fault for not explicitly stating that they needed a VISA.
So my question for Xeris, how could you have seen Strelok's VISA when he hadn't even applied for it?
Yeah, that's a good question. the logic here doesn't make much sense
On July 10 2011 02:28 HolyArrow wrote: I feel like it would be unprofessional for NASL to discriminate somehow against Naniwa just because he said unfavorable things about it. But I don't really know much about the issue so I could have a completely uninformed opinion on the matter. There's probably (hopefully) more to it, as I'd like to think that NASL is more professional and reasonable than that.
They didn't. They followed what they had outlined in their rules from the beginning. However, if they had done it the other way, as in take someone from the regular season as replacement, the spot would go to Ace, not Naniwa first.
Naniwa about there being repercussions for publically bashing the league you're competing in. Naniwa saying what he did when he thought he was out, and then complaining when he thoughy he had another chance at the money, is also pretty classy.
I dont like to respond to comments because of the large amount of people who despise me for old reasons.. but i will try to clear this up, I simply had no idea whether i was out or not. and my comment was FAR before i was 100% to be out of the playoff. FAR. I will always stand for what i say, and if i make mistakes i will try to make it good again. My reason for not being in NASL the next season is mainly the defloss against strelok, where i was here the entire time but the NASL still giving me defloss . the NASL realised their mistake and thereafter gave me +-0 As in the match was never played, but strelok got still +2. which changed the entire outcome of the group. I said what i did to make the NASL better themselves, that its not ok just beacuse you have a insane prizepool to treat the players however they please. I never meant anything bad or trashtalk anyone, i simply want all tournaments to improve and make amends for their mistakes. Also i am going to korea and i will focus on a new step in my career there,in which i think would be very bad to include NASL because its played at such late times.
my point being : I dont mean to be hostile towards the NASL. i just want them to improve. might be a bit hazy in the story but i am very tired right now. will correct if there is any mistakes.
On July 03 2011 01:08 tsuxiit wrote: That blows. I thought a requirement to entering the tournament was actually having a valid visa?
As we said at the start of the season, Strelok was the 'risk' player we accepted, because his team Mouz assured us that he could get a VISA on time.
Obviously, this is exactly the reason we had this rule, so now all the people complaining why we didn't invite certain players know why >_>! It's obviously very frustrating for us because we put about 30 hours of work preparing material for Strelok and now it's gone to waste, and we might not have time to prepare stuff for aLive. It's really frustrating for Strelok as well because he tried everything he could to get the VISA. Also sucks for DarkForcE for obvious reasons. It just sucks for everyone except aLive, great for him! =D
I was one of the detractors for that decision because I didn't expect these problems to persist in 2011 - looks like your cautious approach was right after all, in hindsight.
As for NightEnd -- once again: Romania is a "high risk" country, as are Russia, Ukraine, and Poland (just because Romania is in the EU doesn't mean they have a VISA waiver program... which they don't, which makes it automatically more difficult to get a VISA to the US). We didn't want to have multiple "high risk" players in the league due to obvious reasons. What if more than 1 of them qualifies for the finals, can't get a VISA, and don't show up? That ruins our live event completely.
White-Ra has demonstrated an ability to come to the US, BRAT_OK showed us his VISA, as did Strelok. So we were really left with two players (MaNa and NightEnd) from "high risk" countries. We only wanted to select 1; we chose MaNa. As I said multiple times before -- I should have explicitly stated the need for a VISA. I mistakenly thought it was obvious that people outside the US would ask about it considering the contract states that you must guarantee your ability to enter the US. It was my fault for not explicitly stating that they needed a VISA.
So my question for Xeris, how could you have seen Strelok's VISA when he hadn't even applied for it?
Yeah, that's a good question. the logic here doesn't make much sense
On July 10 2011 02:35 Naniwa wrote: Naniwa about there being repercussions for publically bashing the league you're competing in. Naniwa saying what he did when he thought he was out, and then complaining when he thoughy he had another chance at the money, is also pretty classy.
I dont like to respond to comments because of the large amount of people who despise me for old reasons.. but i will try to clear this up, I simply had no idea whether i was out or not. and my comment was FAR before i was 100% to be out of the playoff. FAR. I will always stand for what i say, and if i make mistakes i will try to make it good again. My reason for not being in NASL the next season is mainly the defloss against strelok, where i was here the entire time but the NASL still giving me defloss . the NASL realised their mistake and thereafter gave me +-0 As in the match was never played, but strelok got still +2. which changed the entire outcome of the group. I said what i did to make the NASL better themselves, that its not ok just beacuse you have a insane prizepool to treat the players however they please. I never meant anything bad or trashtalk anyone, i simply want all tournaments to improve and make amends for their mistakes. Also i am going to korea and i will focus on a new step in my career there,in which i think would be very bad to include NASL because its played at such late times.
my point being : I dont mean to be hostile towards the NASL. i just want them to improve. might be a bit hazy in the story but i am very tired right now. will correct if there is any mistakes.
It's all good! Good luck in Korea, I hope to see you grow even more as a player!
On July 10 2011 02:35 Naniwa wrote: Naniwa about there being repercussions for publically bashing the league you're competing in. Naniwa saying what he did when he thought he was out, and then complaining when he thoughy he had another chance at the money, is also pretty classy.
I dont like to respond to comments because of the large amount of people who despise me for old reasons.. but i will try to clear this up, I simply had no idea whether i was out or not. and my comment was FAR before i was 100% to be out of the playoff. FAR. I will always stand for what i say, and if i make mistakes i will try to make it good again. My reason for not being in NASL the next season is mainly the defloss against strelok, where i was here the entire time but the NASL still giving me defloss . the NASL realised their mistake and thereafter gave me +-0 As in the match was never played, but strelok got still +2. which changed the entire outcome of the group. I said what i did to make the NASL better themselves, that its not ok just beacuse you have a insane prizepool to treat the players however they please. I never meant anything bad or trashtalk anyone, i simply want all tournaments to improve and make amends for their mistakes. Also i am going to korea and i will focus on a new step in my career there,in which i think would be very bad to include NASL because its played at such late times.
my point being : I dont mean to be hostile towards the NASL. i just want them to improve. might be a bit hazy in the story but i am very tired right now. will correct if there is any mistakes.
Well spoken! =D Much luv to the imba and mannered Naniwa
EPT
This really sucks for Strelok, but I like the effort by the NASL to make it happen.
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