It is highly recommended that your read this entire thread - at least until page 10. If you make uninformed opinions that have been answered by the thread, col management or Destiny, you will be banned.
On June 28 2011 06:14 hejakev wrote: How about being in grandmasters, competing, and playing even games against people who win tournaments? I'd say just being GM, but that would include some trash like Deezer and Combatex. There's a reason players like Huk come over to NA just to play him, and there's a reason he's constantly getting matched against players like Idra on the ladder.
Sure, if you look at the million+ people that play Starcraft 2, then I suppose you can say he's "one of the best", but the truth is that he probably wouldn't break into the top 200 players on a global scale so as far as the professional scene is concerned, he's not and to say that he is just waters down the phrase. Just being in GM doesn't automatically qualify you for that title. As far as the professional scene is concerned, that is just a given.
Personally I'm tired of people constantly throwing around the "one of the best in the world" tag. It's used so often it's just become meaningless...
Oh wow, nice edit.
He plays with the best players, he's winning some games against the absolute best players, I don't know how else you'd describe him. He's only been on teams and competing for a few months, yet he can make a big enough impact for players from other servers want to come practice with him.
Huk wouldn't come to NA to waste his time on some nobody.
Destiny winning some games against the absolute best players? Can you link me to the Destiny vs oGsMC and ST_bomber vods? Thanks.
Obviously if your definition of "really good" is beating MC and Bomber, whereas someone else's is being able to beat most of the top NA players, there's going to be a tough time communicating. Neither of you guys are even saying different things, you're both just sloppy with your wording. Its not like its even the sorta thing that you can misinterpret. Results are results. Its just a matter of how each of you judge the results..
He said the absolute best players in the world. Those were his words.
Way to completely miss his point.
I'm saying he plays against some of the absolute best players, playing against Huk and Idra on his stream were the only examples I gave. You want to see replays of him against Koreans. I don't know if he's played against bomber or MC, I guess I could check around.
In a ladder setting which is completely irrelevant anyway, post some tournament results then call him the one of the best players in the world. Desrow beat Idra on the ladder, maybe we should fly him to the next GSL qualifier.
On June 28 2011 07:11 badcnr wrote: He said the absolute best players in the world. Those were his words.
and whats wrong with that. given the whole world of sc2 players he is definately not on the bottom or middle. He is not the very top like top 200 but given the skill level of the top 200 things can change quickly. Destiny still does need some learning but that doesnt mean that he is out of the running of being top of the world. Cause he has been able take games off some the top people in the world and that to me means he is up there [/QUOTE]
I don't get your posts. So because he can POTENTIALLY be at the top IF he practices harder and improves and because he SOMETIMES takes SOME games off better players, we should consider him a top player on a global scale? We're not talking about where he might be 6-months or a year from now. We're talking about where he is right this very moment based on the results he's posted to this point. Obviously we can't predict the future, but we can clearly see that he hasn't posted the type of results that you would expect from a top player. Aside from his constant stream viewers, what are his notable accomplishments?
If you're going to say that someone is one of the best players in the world (and it's a pretty big world), you've got to have some basis to validate that statement. You can say the guy is one of the best in North America or even that he might have the potential to be one of the best in the world if he practices harder, but he's just not at that level right now and there's nothing to suggest that he is. Taking a couple of games off well known top players doesn't mean anything. People drop games all the time. The question is whether he's consistently beating them and maintaining the kind of win rate you would expect from a top player. Or in this situation, would he be maintaining that win rate outside of the NA server, which is known to be one of the weaker servers.
On June 23 2011 12:24 shockaslim wrote: If you've never heard Destiny make fun of black people (or any race of people) then you haven't watched enough.
Anyone referring to Destiny's use of language should watch this first.
Haha this is so good, that black dude who is talking is pretty interesting.
On June 28 2011 06:14 hejakev wrote: How about being in grandmasters, competing, and playing even games against people who win tournaments? I'd say just being GM, but that would include some trash like Deezer and Combatex. There's a reason players like Huk come over to NA just to play him, and there's a reason he's constantly getting matched against players like Idra on the ladder.
Sure, if you look at the million+ people that play Starcraft 2, then I suppose you can say he's "one of the best", but the truth is that he probably wouldn't break into the top 200 players on a global scale so as far as the professional scene is concerned, he's not and to say that he is just waters down the phrase. Just being in GM doesn't automatically qualify you for that title. As far as the professional scene is concerned, that is just a given.
Personally I'm tired of people constantly throwing around the "one of the best in the world" tag. It's used so often it's just become meaningless...
Oh wow, nice edit.
He plays with the best players, he's winning some games against the absolute best players, I don't know how else you'd describe him. He's only been on teams and competing for a few months, yet he can make a big enough impact for players from other servers want to come practice with him.
Huk wouldn't come to NA to waste his time on some nobody.
Destiny winning some games against the absolute best players? Can you link me to the Destiny vs oGsMC and ST_bomber vods? Thanks.
Obviously if your definition of "really good" is beating MC and Bomber, whereas someone else's is being able to beat most of the top NA players, there's going to be a tough time communicating. Neither of you guys are even saying different things, you're both just sloppy with your wording. Its not like its even the sorta thing that you can misinterpret. Results are results. Its just a matter of how each of you judge the results..
He said the absolute best players in the world. Those were his words.
Way to completely miss his point.
I'm saying he plays against some of the absolute best players, playing against Huk and Idra on his stream were the only examples I gave. You want to see replays of him against Koreans. I don't know if he's played against bomber or MC, I guess I could check around.
In a ladder setting which is completely irrelevant anyway, post some tournament results then call him the one of the best players in the world. Desrow beat Idra on the ladder, maybe we should fly him to the next GSL qualifier.
I'll say "Destiny is among the best players in the world." Is that better? And I never said he played Huk in a ladder setting.
MC is a total Bonjwa, I'd even say he's the best right now, but the distance in skill isn't exponentially higher than that of Destiny or Desrow, it's just barely high enough for him to win tournaments over other players. I think people get so lost in the usual competitive crowd that they can't picture new people breaking into their scene and beginning to make names for themselves.
On June 27 2011 23:10 antelope591 wrote: Ive never watched destinys stream since I care much more about actual level of play than "entertainment" whatever that means. However to all the people saying that using the n word is ok would u ever say nigga or nigger or any other iteration of the word around a group of black people? Try it and see what happens. Once u do come back and tell us if its still ok to use the word freely. Personally I dont see why some white people are so obsessed with having to use the word but I could care less. The fact they're saying shit online they would never say in real life tells me all I need to know about them.
So you don't watch his stream, and you obviously didn't notice that he's one of the top players in the world, but your blind insight tells you that he's not good or entertaining?
Eh its more like I don't really enjoy watching Zerg play since I've always played only T/P since the BW days...unless the Zerg is Idra/Ret/Dimaga/Sen quality or a Korean I'm not interested =\. And being #113 grandmaster on NA with zero tourney accomplishments makes you one of the top players in the world now? rofl
It does.
Take TLO for example. TLO, like Destiny, hasn't really won anything, yet he's still considered one of the best players in the world and he has always been one of the most popular players by viewership.
They're both in grandmasters, they compete at the same level, and they both have huge fan bases for being quality players in both skill and entertainment value. Just because you don't think Destiny is entertaining and just because he hasn't won the tournaments you watch doesn't mean he's not playing top level matches.
TLO hasn't been performing due to carpal tunnel, Destiny no matter how funny he can be is not one of the best players in the world.
I would not say that destiny is the best in the world and i dont think he would take that claim. But who is best in the world by your definition? Because right now i dont think any one can claim best in the world. But maybe one of the best in the world would be a lot of the koreans and huk, idra, naniwa. But destiny can beat them maybe not every time and he still has a lot of practice to get to a way higher level but destiny is not out of the running because he doesnt win every tournement or fail to give results all the time. Destiny is constantly trying to improve him self and just cause he hasnt won any mlg's doesnt mean he is not capable.
I'm not diminishing Destiny's skill or passion or work ethic or any of that but at this time he's not on the same level as someone like DRG/NesTea/MVP/MKP/Polt/MC/Nani/Thorzain/MMA/Losira/HuK etc etc...
There are just a ton of players that are really good, with the better of them coming mostly from EU and Korea. Especially after watching HSC EU has a ton of talented players that are just unexposed, like Stephano.
There is a ton of players that are really good. Your right but Lately the top people have been changing. Take huk for example lost to naniwa in mlg and hasnt been doing really good up till dreamhack and hsc. They were really awsome games and huk fought for first in both really hard. Now i see naniwa as a pretty top person in the world. I was blown away that destiny was able take a game off him in the egmasters cup. So That just shows that he is very much able to up there and classified with them. But i will give you he is not top ten or maybe not top two hundred.
On June 27 2011 23:10 antelope591 wrote: Ive never watched destinys stream since I care much more about actual level of play than "entertainment" whatever that means. However to all the people saying that using the n word is ok would u ever say nigga or nigger or any other iteration of the word around a group of black people? Try it and see what happens. Once u do come back and tell us if its still ok to use the word freely. Personally I dont see why some white people are so obsessed with having to use the word but I could care less. The fact they're saying shit online they would never say in real life tells me all I need to know about them.
So you don't watch his stream, and you obviously didn't notice that he's one of the top players in the world, but your blind insight tells you that he's not good or entertaining?
Eh its more like I don't really enjoy watching Zerg play since I've always played only T/P since the BW days...unless the Zerg is Idra/Ret/Dimaga/Sen quality or a Korean I'm not interested =\. And being #113 grandmaster on NA with zero tourney accomplishments makes you one of the top players in the world now? rofl
It does.
Take TLO for example. TLO, like Destiny, hasn't really won anything, yet he's still considered one of the best players in the world and he has always been one of the most popular players by viewership.
They're both in grandmasters, they compete at the same level, and they both have huge fan bases for being quality players in both skill and entertainment value. Just because you don't think Destiny is entertaining and just because he hasn't won the tournaments you watch doesn't mean he's not playing top level matches.
TLO hasn't been performing due to carpal tunnel, Destiny no matter how funny he can be is not one of the best players in the world.
I would not say that destiny is the best in the world and i dont think he would take that claim. But who is best in the world by your definition? Because right now i dont think any one can claim best in the world. But maybe one of the best in the world would be a lot of the koreans and huk, idra, naniwa. But destiny can beat them maybe not every time and he still has a lot of practice to get to a way higher level but destiny is not out of the running because he doesnt win every tournement or fail to give results all the time. Destiny is constantly trying to improve him self and just cause he hasnt won any mlg's doesnt mean he is not capable.
I'm not diminishing Destiny's skill or passion or work ethic or any of that but at this time he's not on the same level as someone like DRG/NesTea/MVP/MKP/Polt/MC/Nani/Thorzain/MMA/Losira/HuK etc etc...
There are just a ton of players that are really good, with the better of them coming mostly from EU and Korea. Especially after watching HSC EU has a ton of talented players that are just unexposed, like Stephano.
There is a ton of players that are really good. Your right but Lately the top people have been changing. Take huk for example lost to naniwa in mlg and hasnt been doing really good up till dreamhack and hsc. They were really awsome games and huk fought for first in both really hard. Now i see naniwa as a pretty top person in the world. I was blown away that destiny was able take a game off him in the egmasters cup. So That just shows that he is very much able to up there and classified with them. But i will give you he is not top ten or maybe not top two hundred.
Taking a game off of a top player once doesn't put you in the category of "among the best in the world" Your last sentence is exactly what I think people commenting on that particular comment are getting at, you can't be among the best in the whole world if you're not even among the top 200 or so people. That's the only reason I'm commenting because I found that comment odd.
On June 28 2011 07:11 badcnr wrote: He said the absolute best players in the world. Those were his words.
and whats wrong with that. given the whole world of sc2 players he is definately not on the bottom or middle. He is not the very top like top 200 but given the skill level of the top 200 things can change quickly. Destiny still does need some learning but that doesnt mean that he is out of the running of being top of the world. Cause he has been able take games off some the top people in the world and that to me means he is up there
I don't get your posts. So because he can POTENTIALLY be at the top IF he practices harder and improves and because he SOMETIMES takes SOME games off better players, we should consider him a top player on a global scale? We're not talking about where he might be 6-months or a year from now. We're talking about where he is right this very moment based on the results he's posted to this point. Obviously we can't predict the future, but we can clearly see that he hasn't posted the type of results that you would expect from a top player. Aside from his constant stream viewers, what are his notable accomplishments?
If you're going to say that someone is one of the best players in the world (and it's a pretty big world), you've got to have some basis to validate that statement. You can say the guy is one of the best in North America or even that he might have the potential to be one of the best in the world if he practices harder, but he's just not at that level right now and there's nothing to suggest that he is. Taking a couple of games off well known top players doesn't mean anything. People drop games all the time. The question is whether he's consistently beating them and maintaining the kind of win rate you would expect from a top player. Or in this situation, would he be maintaining that win rate outside of the NA server, which is known to be one of the weaker servers.[/QUOTE] Why does some one have to have tournement wins to be accomplished. Look at idra the guy has been failing to get any results and has some headsmacking dumb losses but he is up there. Or how about incontrol who i have never heard win anything. Or look at Huk. He hasnt had much for accomplishments since going to korea(up till dreamhack), does that make him not top in the world. Destiny has won some tournements. Not huge ones but they are there. And your right it is a big world. To be a top even go 5000 in the world given the amount of sc2 players thats a pretty big accomplishment.
On June 27 2011 23:10 antelope591 wrote: Ive never watched destinys stream since I care much more about actual level of play than "entertainment" whatever that means. However to all the people saying that using the n word is ok would u ever say nigga or nigger or any other iteration of the word around a group of black people? Try it and see what happens. Once u do come back and tell us if its still ok to use the word freely. Personally I dont see why some white people are so obsessed with having to use the word but I could care less. The fact they're saying shit online they would never say in real life tells me all I need to know about them.
So you don't watch his stream, and you obviously didn't notice that he's one of the top players in the world, but your blind insight tells you that he's not good or entertaining?
Eh its more like I don't really enjoy watching Zerg play since I've always played only T/P since the BW days...unless the Zerg is Idra/Ret/Dimaga/Sen quality or a Korean I'm not interested =\. And being #113 grandmaster on NA with zero tourney accomplishments makes you one of the top players in the world now? rofl
It does.
Take TLO for example. TLO, like Destiny, hasn't really won anything, yet he's still considered one of the best players in the world and he has always been one of the most popular players by viewership.
They're both in grandmasters, they compete at the same level, and they both have huge fan bases for being quality players in both skill and entertainment value. Just because you don't think Destiny is entertaining and just because he hasn't won the tournaments you watch doesn't mean he's not playing top level matches.
TLO hasn't been performing due to carpal tunnel, Destiny no matter how funny he can be is not one of the best players in the world.
I would not say that destiny is the best in the world and i dont think he would take that claim. But who is best in the world by your definition? Because right now i dont think any one can claim best in the world. But maybe one of the best in the world would be a lot of the koreans and huk, idra, naniwa. But destiny can beat them maybe not every time and he still has a lot of practice to get to a way higher level but destiny is not out of the running because he doesnt win every tournement or fail to give results all the time. Destiny is constantly trying to improve him self and just cause he hasnt won any mlg's doesnt mean he is not capable.
I'm not diminishing Destiny's skill or passion or work ethic or any of that but at this time he's not on the same level as someone like DRG/NesTea/MVP/MKP/Polt/MC/Nani/Thorzain/MMA/Losira/HuK etc etc...
There are just a ton of players that are really good, with the better of them coming mostly from EU and Korea. Especially after watching HSC EU has a ton of talented players that are just unexposed, like Stephano.
There is a ton of players that are really good. Your right but Lately the top people have been changing. Take huk for example lost to naniwa in mlg and hasnt been doing really good up till dreamhack and hsc. They were really awsome games and huk fought for first in both really hard. Now i see naniwa as a pretty top person in the world. I was blown away that destiny was able take a game off him in the egmasters cup. So That just shows that he is very much able to up there and classified with them. But i will give you he is not top ten or maybe not top two hundred.
Huk has been putting up results since beta and got to code S before his recent wins....Destiny has literally zero tourney accomplishments. You cant be mentioned amongst the best when ur biggest accomplishment is random ladder wins. Last I checked Trump beat Idra on ladder too and so did 100 other random players who u never hear about. Ladder wins = meaningless in this discussion
On June 27 2011 23:10 antelope591 wrote: Ive never watched destinys stream since I care much more about actual level of play than "entertainment" whatever that means. However to all the people saying that using the n word is ok would u ever say nigga or nigger or any other iteration of the word around a group of black people? Try it and see what happens. Once u do come back and tell us if its still ok to use the word freely. Personally I dont see why some white people are so obsessed with having to use the word but I could care less. The fact they're saying shit online they would never say in real life tells me all I need to know about them.
So you don't watch his stream, and you obviously didn't notice that he's one of the top players in the world, but your blind insight tells you that he's not good or entertaining?
Eh its more like I don't really enjoy watching Zerg play since I've always played only T/P since the BW days...unless the Zerg is Idra/Ret/Dimaga/Sen quality or a Korean I'm not interested =\. And being #113 grandmaster on NA with zero tourney accomplishments makes you one of the top players in the world now? rofl
It does.
Take TLO for example. TLO, like Destiny, hasn't really won anything, yet he's still considered one of the best players in the world and he has always been one of the most popular players by viewership.
They're both in grandmasters, they compete at the same level, and they both have huge fan bases for being quality players in both skill and entertainment value. Just because you don't think Destiny is entertaining and just because he hasn't won the tournaments you watch doesn't mean he's not playing top level matches.
TLO hasn't been performing due to carpal tunnel, Destiny no matter how funny he can be is not one of the best players in the world.
I would not say that destiny is the best in the world and i dont think he would take that claim. But who is best in the world by your definition? Because right now i dont think any one can claim best in the world. But maybe one of the best in the world would be a lot of the koreans and huk, idra, naniwa. But destiny can beat them maybe not every time and he still has a lot of practice to get to a way higher level but destiny is not out of the running because he doesnt win every tournement or fail to give results all the time. Destiny is constantly trying to improve him self and just cause he hasnt won any mlg's doesnt mean he is not capable.
I'm not diminishing Destiny's skill or passion or work ethic or any of that but at this time he's not on the same level as someone like DRG/NesTea/MVP/MKP/Polt/MC/Nani/Thorzain/MMA/Losira/HuK etc etc...
There are just a ton of players that are really good, with the better of them coming mostly from EU and Korea. Especially after watching HSC EU has a ton of talented players that are just unexposed, like Stephano.
There is a ton of players that are really good. Your right but Lately the top people have been changing. Take huk for example lost to naniwa in mlg and hasnt been doing really good up till dreamhack and hsc. They were really awsome games and huk fought for first in both really hard. Now i see naniwa as a pretty top person in the world. I was blown away that destiny was able take a game off him in the egmasters cup. So That just shows that he is very much able to up there and classified with them. But i will give you he is not top ten or maybe not top two hundred.
Taking a game off of a top player once doesn't put you in the category of "among the best in the world" Your last sentence is exactly what I think people commenting on that particular comment are getting at, you can't be among the best in the whole world if you're not even among the top 200 or so people. That's the only reason I'm commenting because I found that comment odd.
Yeah and thats not what i am saying. Destiny is good at the game and even amognst the top players in the world. He might be just getting to that postion but he is by far not bad or capable of taking some good tournements.
On June 27 2011 23:10 antelope591 wrote: Ive never watched destinys stream since I care much more about actual level of play than "entertainment" whatever that means. However to all the people saying that using the n word is ok would u ever say nigga or nigger or any other iteration of the word around a group of black people? Try it and see what happens. Once u do come back and tell us if its still ok to use the word freely. Personally I dont see why some white people are so obsessed with having to use the word but I could care less. The fact they're saying shit online they would never say in real life tells me all I need to know about them.
So you don't watch his stream, and you obviously didn't notice that he's one of the top players in the world, but your blind insight tells you that he's not good or entertaining?
Eh its more like I don't really enjoy watching Zerg play since I've always played only T/P since the BW days...unless the Zerg is Idra/Ret/Dimaga/Sen quality or a Korean I'm not interested =\. And being #113 grandmaster on NA with zero tourney accomplishments makes you one of the top players in the world now? rofl
It does.
Take TLO for example. TLO, like Destiny, hasn't really won anything, yet he's still considered one of the best players in the world and he has always been one of the most popular players by viewership.
They're both in grandmasters, they compete at the same level, and they both have huge fan bases for being quality players in both skill and entertainment value. Just because you don't think Destiny is entertaining and just because he hasn't won the tournaments you watch doesn't mean he's not playing top level matches.
TLO hasn't been performing due to carpal tunnel, Destiny no matter how funny he can be is not one of the best players in the world.
I would not say that destiny is the best in the world and i dont think he would take that claim. But who is best in the world by your definition? Because right now i dont think any one can claim best in the world. But maybe one of the best in the world would be a lot of the koreans and huk, idra, naniwa. But destiny can beat them maybe not every time and he still has a lot of practice to get to a way higher level but destiny is not out of the running because he doesnt win every tournement or fail to give results all the time. Destiny is constantly trying to improve him self and just cause he hasnt won any mlg's doesnt mean he is not capable.
I'm not diminishing Destiny's skill or passion or work ethic or any of that but at this time he's not on the same level as someone like DRG/NesTea/MVP/MKP/Polt/MC/Nani/Thorzain/MMA/Losira/HuK etc etc...
There are just a ton of players that are really good, with the better of them coming mostly from EU and Korea. Especially after watching HSC EU has a ton of talented players that are just unexposed, like Stephano.
There is a ton of players that are really good. Your right but Lately the top people have been changing. Take huk for example lost to naniwa in mlg and hasnt been doing really good up till dreamhack and hsc. They were really awsome games and huk fought for first in both really hard. Now i see naniwa as a pretty top person in the world. I was blown away that destiny was able take a game off him in the egmasters cup. So That just shows that he is very much able to up there and classified with them. But i will give you he is not top ten or maybe not top two hundred.
Taking a game off of a top player once doesn't put you in the category of "among the best in the world" Your last sentence is exactly what I think people commenting on that particular comment are getting at, you can't be among the best in the whole world if you're not even among the top 200 or so people. That's the only reason I'm commenting because I found that comment odd.
Yeah and thats not what i am saying. Destiny is good at the game and even amognst the top players in the world. He might be just getting to that postion but he is by far not bad or capable of taking some good tournements.
I agree, I never said he was bad or untalented. I just was clarifying that the comment "He's among the best players in the world" is false or grossly over estimated in accordance with his skill. Maybe some day he will be there, but until that time comes to put him in that category is just plain wrong imo.
On June 27 2011 23:10 antelope591 wrote: Ive never watched destinys stream since I care much more about actual level of play than "entertainment" whatever that means. However to all the people saying that using the n word is ok would u ever say nigga or nigger or any other iteration of the word around a group of black people? Try it and see what happens. Once u do come back and tell us if its still ok to use the word freely. Personally I dont see why some white people are so obsessed with having to use the word but I could care less. The fact they're saying shit online they would never say in real life tells me all I need to know about them.
So you don't watch his stream, and you obviously didn't notice that he's one of the top players in the world, but your blind insight tells you that he's not good or entertaining?
Eh its more like I don't really enjoy watching Zerg play since I've always played only T/P since the BW days...unless the Zerg is Idra/Ret/Dimaga/Sen quality or a Korean I'm not interested =\. And being #113 grandmaster on NA with zero tourney accomplishments makes you one of the top players in the world now? rofl
It does.
Take TLO for example. TLO, like Destiny, hasn't really won anything, yet he's still considered one of the best players in the world and he has always been one of the most popular players by viewership.
They're both in grandmasters, they compete at the same level, and they both have huge fan bases for being quality players in both skill and entertainment value. Just because you don't think Destiny is entertaining and just because he hasn't won the tournaments you watch doesn't mean he's not playing top level matches.
TLO hasn't been performing due to carpal tunnel, Destiny no matter how funny he can be is not one of the best players in the world.
I would not say that destiny is the best in the world and i dont think he would take that claim. But who is best in the world by your definition? Because right now i dont think any one can claim best in the world. But maybe one of the best in the world would be a lot of the koreans and huk, idra, naniwa. But destiny can beat them maybe not every time and he still has a lot of practice to get to a way higher level but destiny is not out of the running because he doesnt win every tournement or fail to give results all the time. Destiny is constantly trying to improve him self and just cause he hasnt won any mlg's doesnt mean he is not capable.
I'm not diminishing Destiny's skill or passion or work ethic or any of that but at this time he's not on the same level as someone like DRG/NesTea/MVP/MKP/Polt/MC/Nani/Thorzain/MMA/Losira/HuK etc etc...
There are just a ton of players that are really good, with the better of them coming mostly from EU and Korea. Especially after watching HSC EU has a ton of talented players that are just unexposed, like Stephano.
There is a ton of players that are really good. Your right but Lately the top people have been changing. Take huk for example lost to naniwa in mlg and hasnt been doing really good up till dreamhack and hsc. They were really awsome games and huk fought for first in both really hard. Now i see naniwa as a pretty top person in the world. I was blown away that destiny was able take a game off him in the egmasters cup. So That just shows that he is very much able to up there and classified with them. But i will give you he is not top ten or maybe not top two hundred.
Huk has been putting up results since beta and got to code S before his recent wins....Destiny has literally zero tourney accomplishments. You cant be mentioned amongst the best when ur biggest accomplishment is random ladder wins. Last I checked Trump beat Idra on ladder too and so did 100 other random players who u never hear about. Ladder wins = meaningless in this discussion
Huk wasnt doing great for tournement wins till that point. If its just getting in to code S, Destiny has won some qualifiers. He doesnt just have ladder matches. What about his custom games getting ready for tournements playing some top names for practice and doing pretty good. I have not included anything about ladder results. Destiny has won a tournement so does that make him accomplished?
So you don't watch his stream, and you obviously didn't notice that he's one of the top players in the world, but your blind insight tells you that he's not good or entertaining?
Eh its more like I don't really enjoy watching Zerg play since I've always played only T/P since the BW days...unless the Zerg is Idra/Ret/Dimaga/Sen quality or a Korean I'm not interested =\. And being #113 grandmaster on NA with zero tourney accomplishments makes you one of the top players in the world now? rofl
It does.
Take TLO for example. TLO, like Destiny, hasn't really won anything, yet he's still considered one of the best players in the world and he has always been one of the most popular players by viewership.
They're both in grandmasters, they compete at the same level, and they both have huge fan bases for being quality players in both skill and entertainment value. Just because you don't think Destiny is entertaining and just because he hasn't won the tournaments you watch doesn't mean he's not playing top level matches.
TLO hasn't been performing due to carpal tunnel, Destiny no matter how funny he can be is not one of the best players in the world.
I would not say that destiny is the best in the world and i dont think he would take that claim. But who is best in the world by your definition? Because right now i dont think any one can claim best in the world. But maybe one of the best in the world would be a lot of the koreans and huk, idra, naniwa. But destiny can beat them maybe not every time and he still has a lot of practice to get to a way higher level but destiny is not out of the running because he doesnt win every tournement or fail to give results all the time. Destiny is constantly trying to improve him self and just cause he hasnt won any mlg's doesnt mean he is not capable.
I'm not diminishing Destiny's skill or passion or work ethic or any of that but at this time he's not on the same level as someone like DRG/NesTea/MVP/MKP/Polt/MC/Nani/Thorzain/MMA/Losira/HuK etc etc...
There are just a ton of players that are really good, with the better of them coming mostly from EU and Korea. Especially after watching HSC EU has a ton of talented players that are just unexposed, like Stephano.
There is a ton of players that are really good. Your right but Lately the top people have been changing. Take huk for example lost to naniwa in mlg and hasnt been doing really good up till dreamhack and hsc. They were really awsome games and huk fought for first in both really hard. Now i see naniwa as a pretty top person in the world. I was blown away that destiny was able take a game off him in the egmasters cup. So That just shows that he is very much able to up there and classified with them. But i will give you he is not top ten or maybe not top two hundred.
Taking a game off of a top player once doesn't put you in the category of "among the best in the world" Your last sentence is exactly what I think people commenting on that particular comment are getting at, you can't be among the best in the whole world if you're not even among the top 200 or so people. That's the only reason I'm commenting because I found that comment odd.
Yeah and thats not what i am saying. Destiny is good at the game and even amognst the top players in the world. He might be just getting to that postion but he is by far not bad or capable of taking some good tournements.
I agree, I never said he was bad or untalented. I just was clarifying that the comment "He's among the best players in the world" is false or grossly over estimated in accordance with his skill. Maybe some day he will be there, but until that time comes to put him in that category is just plain wrong imo.
I think your miss understanding what i am saying i am not saying he is the best or that he top 5 but he is on the list or at the very least not far from the list of "best of the world".
On June 28 2011 07:59 badcnr wrote: Huk wasnt doing great for tournement wins till that point. If its just getting in to code S, Destiny has won some qualifiers. He doesnt just have ladder matches. What about his custom games getting ready for tournements playing some top names for practice and doing pretty good. I have not included anything about ladder results. Destiny has won a tournement so does that make him accomplished?
We're not talking about whether he's accomplished or not. We're talking about whether he's one of the best players in the world. Huk is a player in GSL Code S, the most prestigious and difficult tournament in the world. That alone even if he does nothing else puts him far above anything Destiny has done. Idra was also a Code S player and he's posted both wins and Top 8 finishes at several major events. Top players are considered so for their actual accomplishments, not because of what we think they MIGHT be capable of. Top players are players that post consistent results against other players of the caliber. Sure they may not necessarily win tournaments, but they are consistently placing high and are always a presence in competition.
Destiny is accomplished in his own right, but it's been on a much smaller scale and much of it is really his persona. Winning a few minor tournaments doesn't place you on top of the world...
On June 28 2011 08:02 badcnr wrote: I think your miss understanding what i am saying i am not saying he is the best or that he top 5 but he is on the list or at the very least not far from the list of "best of the world".
Exactly how big is your list? Does it include every single pro gamer or something?
On June 27 2011 23:10 antelope591 wrote: Ive never watched destinys stream since I care much more about actual level of play than "entertainment" whatever that means. However to all the people saying that using the n word is ok would u ever say nigga or nigger or any other iteration of the word around a group of black people? Try it and see what happens. Once u do come back and tell us if its still ok to use the word freely. Personally I dont see why some white people are so obsessed with having to use the word but I could care less. The fact they're saying shit online they would never say in real life tells me all I need to know about them.
So you don't watch his stream, and you obviously didn't notice that he's one of the top players in the world, but your blind insight tells you that he's not good or entertaining?
Eh its more like I don't really enjoy watching Zerg play since I've always played only T/P since the BW days...unless the Zerg is Idra/Ret/Dimaga/Sen quality or a Korean I'm not interested =\. And being #113 grandmaster on NA with zero tourney accomplishments makes you one of the top players in the world now? rofl
It does.
Take TLO for example. TLO, like Destiny, hasn't really won anything, yet he's still considered one of the best players in the world and he has always been one of the most popular players by viewership.
They're both in grandmasters, they compete at the same level, and they both have huge fan bases for being quality players in both skill and entertainment value. Just because you don't think Destiny is entertaining and just because he hasn't won the tournaments you watch doesn't mean he's not playing top level matches.
TLO hasn't been performing due to carpal tunnel, Destiny no matter how funny he can be is not one of the best players in the world.
I would not say that destiny is the best in the world and i dont think he would take that claim. But who is best in the world by your definition? Because right now i dont think any one can claim best in the world. But maybe one of the best in the world would be a lot of the koreans and huk, idra, naniwa. But destiny can beat them maybe not every time and he still has a lot of practice to get to a way higher level but destiny is not out of the running because he doesnt win every tournement or fail to give results all the time. Destiny is constantly trying to improve him self and just cause he hasnt won any mlg's doesnt mean he is not capable.
I'm not diminishing Destiny's skill or passion or work ethic or any of that but at this time he's not on the same level as someone like DRG/NesTea/MVP/MKP/Polt/MC/Nani/Thorzain/MMA/Losira/HuK etc etc...
There are just a ton of players that are really good, with the better of them coming mostly from EU and Korea. Especially after watching HSC EU has a ton of talented players that are just unexposed, like Stephano.
There is a ton of players that are really good. Your right but Lately the top people have been changing. Take huk for example lost to naniwa in mlg and hasnt been doing really good up till dreamhack and hsc. They were really awsome games and huk fought for first in both really hard. Now i see naniwa as a pretty top person in the world. I was blown away that destiny was able take a game off him in the egmasters cup. So That just shows that he is very much able to up there and classified with them. But i will give you he is not top ten or maybe not top two hundred.
Huk has been putting up results since beta and got to code S before his recent wins....Destiny has literally zero tourney accomplishments. You cant be mentioned amongst the best when ur biggest accomplishment is random ladder wins. Last I checked Trump beat Idra on ladder too and so did 100 other random players who u never hear about. Ladder wins = meaningless in this discussion
Huk wasnt doing great for tournement wins till that point. If its just getting in to code S, Destiny has won some qualifiers. He doesnt just have ladder matches. What about his custom games getting ready for tournements playing some top names for practice and doing pretty good. I have not included anything about ladder results. Destiny has won a tournement so does that make him accomplished?
The fact that u compared getting to code S to winning "some qualifiers" (whatever that means lol) tells me that further argument is pointless as u are either trolling or clueless.
On June 28 2011 06:14 hejakev wrote: How about being in grandmasters, competing, and playing even games against people who win tournaments? I'd say just being GM, but that would include some trash like Deezer and Combatex. There's a reason players like Huk come over to NA just to play him, and there's a reason he's constantly getting matched against players like Idra on the ladder.
Sure, if you look at the million+ people that play Starcraft 2, then I suppose you can say he's "one of the best", but the truth is that he probably wouldn't break into the top 200 players on a global scale so as far as the professional scene is concerned, he's not and to say that he is just waters down the phrase. Just being in GM doesn't automatically qualify you for that title. As far as the professional scene is concerned, that is just a given.
Personally I'm tired of people constantly throwing around the "one of the best in the world" tag. It's used so often it's just become meaningless...
Oh wow, nice edit.
He plays with the best players, he's winning some games against the absolute best players, I don't know how else you'd describe him. He's only been on teams and competing for a few months, yet he can make a big enough impact for players from other servers want to come practice with him.
Huk wouldn't come to NA to waste his time on some nobody.
Destiny winning some games against the absolute best players? Can you link me to the Destiny vs oGsMC and ST_bomber vods? Thanks.
Obviously if your definition of "really good" is beating MC and Bomber, whereas someone else's is being able to beat most of the top NA players, there's going to be a tough time communicating. Neither of you guys are even saying different things, you're both just sloppy with your wording. Its not like its even the sorta thing that you can misinterpret. Results are results. Its just a matter of how each of you judge the results..
He said the absolute best players in the world. Those were his words.
Way to completely miss his point.
I'm saying he plays against some of the absolute best players, playing against Huk and Idra on his stream were the only examples I gave. You want to see replays of him against Koreans. I don't know if he's played against bomber or MC, I guess I could check around.
In a ladder setting which is completely irrelevant anyway, post some tournament results then call him the one of the best players in the world. Desrow beat Idra on the ladder, maybe we should fly him to the next GSL qualifier.
I'll say "Destiny is among the best players in the world." Is that better? And I never said he played Huk in a ladder setting.
MC is a total Bonjwa, I'd even say he's the best right now, but the distance in skill isn't exponentially higher than that of Destiny or Desrow, it's just barely high enough for him to win tournaments over other players. I think people get so lost in the usual competitive crowd that they can't picture new people breaking into their scene and beginning to make names for themselves.
Ok, I think it's about time for you to stop posting ridiculous shit. First, you call Destiny one of the top players in the world, then you call MC a total Bonjwa?... To begin with, you should start to be more objective and then, you should clear out the meaning of TOP and Bonjwa for yourself, because now, you are placing yourself in a very awkard position.
On June 28 2011 06:14 hejakev wrote: How about being in grandmasters, competing, and playing even games against people who win tournaments? I'd say just being GM, but that would include some trash like Deezer and Combatex. There's a reason players like Huk come over to NA just to play him, and there's a reason he's constantly getting matched against players like Idra on the ladder.
Sure, if you look at the million+ people that play Starcraft 2, then I suppose you can say he's "one of the best", but the truth is that he probably wouldn't break into the top 200 players on a global scale so as far as the professional scene is concerned, he's not and to say that he is just waters down the phrase. Just being in GM doesn't automatically qualify you for that title. As far as the professional scene is concerned, that is just a given.
Personally I'm tired of people constantly throwing around the "one of the best in the world" tag. It's used so often it's just become meaningless...
Oh wow, nice edit.
He plays with the best players, he's winning some games against the absolute best players, I don't know how else you'd describe him. He's only been on teams and competing for a few months, yet he can make a big enough impact for players from other servers want to come practice with him.
Huk wouldn't come to NA to waste his time on some nobody.
Destiny winning some games against the absolute best players? Can you link me to the Destiny vs oGsMC and ST_bomber vods? Thanks.
Obviously if your definition of "really good" is beating MC and Bomber, whereas someone else's is being able to beat most of the top NA players, there's going to be a tough time communicating. Neither of you guys are even saying different things, you're both just sloppy with your wording. Its not like its even the sorta thing that you can misinterpret. Results are results. Its just a matter of how each of you judge the results..
He said the absolute best players in the world. Those were his words.
Way to completely miss his point.
I'm saying he plays against some of the absolute best players, playing against Huk and Idra on his stream were the only examples I gave. You want to see replays of him against Koreans. I don't know if he's played against bomber or MC, I guess I could check around.
In a ladder setting which is completely irrelevant anyway, post some tournament results then call him the one of the best players in the world. Desrow beat Idra on the ladder, maybe we should fly him to the next GSL qualifier.
I'll say "Destiny is among the best players in the world." Is that better? And I never said he played Huk in a ladder setting.
MC is a total Bonjwa, I'd even say he's the best right now, but the distance in skill isn't exponentially higher than that of Destiny or Desrow, it's just barely high enough for him to win tournaments over other players. I think people get so lost in the usual competitive crowd that they can't picture new people breaking into their scene and beginning to make names for themselves.
Ok, I think it's about time for you to stop posting ridiculous shit. First, you call Destiny one of the top players in the world, then you call MC a total Bonjwa?... To begin with, you should start to be more objective and then, you should clear out the meaning of TOP and Bonjwa for yourself, because now, you are placing yourself in a very awkard position.
Well, this is awkard.
The #1 player by winnings and overall tournament wins being called a "Bonjwa" is just too ridiculous. You're totally right to get so mad about that. And I guess GM isn't reserved for the best players, after all. Maybe I should clear out the meaning of "top" 200 before I assume that it's actually the "top" 200.
Sure, if you look at the million+ people that play Starcraft 2, then I suppose you can say he's "one of the best", but the truth is that he probably wouldn't break into the top 200 players on a global scale so as far as the professional scene is concerned, he's not and to say that he is just waters down the phrase. Just being in GM doesn't automatically qualify you for that title. As far as the professional scene is concerned, that is just a given.
Personally I'm tired of people constantly throwing around the "one of the best in the world" tag. It's used so often it's just become meaningless...
Oh wow, nice edit.
He plays with the best players, he's winning some games against the absolute best players, I don't know how else you'd describe him. He's only been on teams and competing for a few months, yet he can make a big enough impact for players from other servers want to come practice with him.
Huk wouldn't come to NA to waste his time on some nobody.
Destiny winning some games against the absolute best players? Can you link me to the Destiny vs oGsMC and ST_bomber vods? Thanks.
Obviously if your definition of "really good" is beating MC and Bomber, whereas someone else's is being able to beat most of the top NA players, there's going to be a tough time communicating. Neither of you guys are even saying different things, you're both just sloppy with your wording. Its not like its even the sorta thing that you can misinterpret. Results are results. Its just a matter of how each of you judge the results..
He said the absolute best players in the world. Those were his words.
Way to completely miss his point.
I'm saying he plays against some of the absolute best players, playing against Huk and Idra on his stream were the only examples I gave. You want to see replays of him against Koreans. I don't know if he's played against bomber or MC, I guess I could check around.
In a ladder setting which is completely irrelevant anyway, post some tournament results then call him the one of the best players in the world. Desrow beat Idra on the ladder, maybe we should fly him to the next GSL qualifier.
I'll say "Destiny is among the best players in the world." Is that better? And I never said he played Huk in a ladder setting.
MC is a total Bonjwa, I'd even say he's the best right now, but the distance in skill isn't exponentially higher than that of Destiny or Desrow, it's just barely high enough for him to win tournaments over other players. I think people get so lost in the usual competitive crowd that they can't picture new people breaking into their scene and beginning to make names for themselves.
Ok, I think it's about time for you to stop posting ridiculous shit. First, you call Destiny one of the top players in the world, then you call MC a total Bonjwa?... To begin with, you should start to be more objective and then, you should clear out the meaning of TOP and Bonjwa for yourself, because now, you are placing yourself in a very awkard position.
Well, this is awkard.
The #1 player by winnings and overall tournament wins being called a "Bonjwa" is just too ridiculous. You're totally right to get so mad about that. And I guess GM isn't reserved for the best players, after all. Maybe I should clear out the meaning of "top" 200 before I assume that it's actually the "top" 200.
Great post.
I dont think anyone refers to top 200 on ladder as "Top of the world". And MC is soooo far from a Bonjwa still.
Sure, if you look at the million+ people that play Starcraft 2, then I suppose you can say he's "one of the best", but the truth is that he probably wouldn't break into the top 200 players on a global scale so as far as the professional scene is concerned, he's not and to say that he is just waters down the phrase. Just being in GM doesn't automatically qualify you for that title. As far as the professional scene is concerned, that is just a given.
Personally I'm tired of people constantly throwing around the "one of the best in the world" tag. It's used so often it's just become meaningless...
Oh wow, nice edit.
He plays with the best players, he's winning some games against the absolute best players, I don't know how else you'd describe him. He's only been on teams and competing for a few months, yet he can make a big enough impact for players from other servers want to come practice with him.
Huk wouldn't come to NA to waste his time on some nobody.
Destiny winning some games against the absolute best players? Can you link me to the Destiny vs oGsMC and ST_bomber vods? Thanks.
Obviously if your definition of "really good" is beating MC and Bomber, whereas someone else's is being able to beat most of the top NA players, there's going to be a tough time communicating. Neither of you guys are even saying different things, you're both just sloppy with your wording. Its not like its even the sorta thing that you can misinterpret. Results are results. Its just a matter of how each of you judge the results..
He said the absolute best players in the world. Those were his words.
Way to completely miss his point.
I'm saying he plays against some of the absolute best players, playing against Huk and Idra on his stream were the only examples I gave. You want to see replays of him against Koreans. I don't know if he's played against bomber or MC, I guess I could check around.
In a ladder setting which is completely irrelevant anyway, post some tournament results then call him the one of the best players in the world. Desrow beat Idra on the ladder, maybe we should fly him to the next GSL qualifier.
I'll say "Destiny is among the best players in the world." Is that better? And I never said he played Huk in a ladder setting.
MC is a total Bonjwa, I'd even say he's the best right now, but the distance in skill isn't exponentially higher than that of Destiny or Desrow, it's just barely high enough for him to win tournaments over other players. I think people get so lost in the usual competitive crowd that they can't picture new people breaking into their scene and beginning to make names for themselves.
Ok, I think it's about time for you to stop posting ridiculous shit. First, you call Destiny one of the top players in the world, then you call MC a total Bonjwa?... To begin with, you should start to be more objective and then, you should clear out the meaning of TOP and Bonjwa for yourself, because now, you are placing yourself in a very awkard position.
Well, this is awkard.
The #1 player by winnings and overall tournament wins being called a "Bonjwa" is just too ridiculous. You're totally right to get so mad about that. And I guess GM isn't reserved for the best players, after all. Maybe I should clear out the meaning of "top" 200 before I assume that it's actually the "top" 200.
I think you don't understand the major difference between GM ( TOP 200) in one continent, and being one of the top players in the world. If you think that by being ranked 499 in Global GM league(http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/310150/ROOTDestiny) can get you 'title': "one of the top players in the world", then you are absolutely right. But somehow I think it doesn't.
On June 28 2011 07:57 Hierarch wrote: I just was clarifying that the comment "He's among the best players in the world" is false or grossly over estimated in accordance with his skill.
He's easily among the best players in the world if by that someone means the best 500 to 1000 players.
Edit: And that's probably conservative. Being in the top 150 US probably puts one above number 500 worldwide, especially since some GM players play in multiple regions and are ranked in multiple of them.
EPT
