EPTSeason 3 Ladder Pool Updates - Page 26
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poundcakes
Norway239 Posts
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
On June 21 2011 06:30 aksfjh wrote: Anybody want to elaborate why rocks are automatically a terrible abomination to maps? 1. Rocks usually block a choke point, choke points favor ranged units, which creates racial imbalance 2. Rocks usually block/stop 3rd expansions, which inhibits normal macro play: if you FE and you see opponent FE, a valid response is to take a quick 3rd... but blizz takes this option away with rocks 3. Rocks and side hallways encourage cheese, especially cheese using the terrain to be invincible vs early game tactics | ||
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Taiyoken
Canada130 Posts
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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Papulatus
United States669 Posts
Lets just hope that they get changed significantly before they go live. | ||
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DensitY
New Zealand74 Posts
On June 21 2011 06:30 aksfjh wrote: Anybody want to elaborate why rocks are automatically a terrible abomination to maps? Because it removes a strategic decision from players. Lets use PvZ as an example. Lets say Protoss forge expands to get a secure second. Zerg now has 2 options, take a fast 3rd or ling/roach pressure/all-in to try and punish the Protoss. Rocks Often block 3rd expansions and in the above cases removes a strategic decision from Zerg and forces them into decision which can be blindly defended. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
dunno how they think putting a wide ramp and then a backdoor of another wide ramp into the main is a good idea balance wise | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
Why doesnt blizzard want their ladder to teach players to play properly? You mean players should all learn how to play lategame games? There is no choice? @Wren That depends on the map. If you actually lose because the rocks are broken, it means you just took it too early. Anyways, if they're doing a rush like a 4 gate, why would they kill the rocks? Heck I've never even see a pro 4 gate on Crevasse by killing the rocks. It's a friggin 4 gate, you warp in units. Also, your example doesn't make sense because no one 4 gates when someone already has 3 bases going. On Crevasse you could take your natural outside instead of inside, but on Kerrigan's why would you take your third before your natural? Because it removes a strategic decision from players. Only if used badly. | ||
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StarBrift
Sweden1761 Posts
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Viciousvx
United States83 Posts
when literally none are used in professional gaming... its amazing Dustin Browder.....wow I would like to say i'm thankful to the Real map making starcraft 2 community, whom on day one, will fix all these terrible maps....by creating new ones for better tournament play and experience. | ||
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OurAllySucks
United States7 Posts
On June 21 2011 06:30 aksfjh wrote: Anybody want to elaborate why rocks are automatically a terrible abomination to maps? rocks on their own aren't a terrible thing. testbug's use of rocks to block the xel nagas for instance is both inventive and an interesting gameplay mechanic. However the rocks on the blizzard maps always consist of something along the lines of blocking you from taking a third or granting your opponent an excess of attack paths if not defended. Those are both overly used and not interesting mechanics to begin with. | ||
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starmeat_
105 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
On June 21 2011 06:37 StarBrift wrote: Rocks on maps are fine but NOT on expansions! Do they seriously not understand how zerg economy works? If you have to make 20 units early game instead of drones and you can't immediately use those to attack your opponent afterwards, you simply lose the game. No ands ifs or butts. Look at Xel'Naga, and tell me how that map is not fine. But, if, if, but, rocks are used properly, there is no problem. It's not like there is a rock on a natural. Only on thirds or other bases. Are you expecting to be able to take 3 bases without making any army units at all? | ||
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DensitY
New Zealand74 Posts
My view is largely on rock usage over expansions, which I do consider "bad". Rocks to block attacking paths are different as they ofter a Strategic option. | ||
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
On June 21 2011 06:21 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: they're not making rush maps so that rushes "are stronger", they're making them rush maps so that there is more pressure and aggression ideally, it would be back and forth, low econ fighting, but humans make too many mistakes so it doesn't end up that way It's not about human mistakes, this game just has completely out-of-whack interactions between the base units of various races. How is low-econ aggression supposed to work for Zerg if they are, by design (courtesy of David Kim @ Blizzcon), incapable of pressuring a one-basing player? How is the low eco thing supposed to work out if Terran has, by design, the highest 1 base income of all the races? I wouldn't care about "rush maps" or whatever if these scenarios provided equal opportunity for all races, but they just don't. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
On June 21 2011 06:38 Viciousvx wrote: I wonder how these people still have jobs. when literally none are used in professional gaming... its amazing Dustin Browder.....wow I would like to say i'm thankful to the Real map making starcraft 2 community, whom on day one, will fix all these terrible maps....by creating new ones for better tournament play and experience. Their goal is not to make maps for professional gaming Dustin Browder... he's in charge of maps? How do we know? Hey, half of all players are Bronze. Does it not make sense to make more "nooby" maps? We'll still have the occasional GSL map in, so don't be too disappointed. | ||
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wolfe
United States761 Posts
On June 21 2011 06:36 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: You mean players should all learn how to play lategame games? There is no choice? @Wren That depends on the map. If you actually lose because the rocks are broken, it means you just took it too early. Anyways, if they're doing a rush like a 4 gate, why would they kill the rocks? Heck I've never even see a pro 4 gate on Crevasse by killing the rocks. It's a friggin 4 gate, you warp in units. Also, your example doesn't make sense because no one 4 gates when someone already has 3 bases going. On Crevasse you could take your natural outside instead of inside, but on Kerrigan's why would you take your third before your natural? Only if used badly. Many people here would agree that if someone only knew how to 1 base all in or his definition of a late game was taking his natural he would be not be "playing properly". What you don't seem to realize is that you cannot play long macro games on most of these maps hence limiting play styles while you CAN cheese and all-in on large macro maps hence promoting a variety of play styles. Thus, large macro maps > crappy small ones. edit: Noobs have downvotes too so we dont need to have a majority of maps catered to them. Also, noobs can still have fun and dick around on large maps my friends can attest. | ||
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DrNo
Denmark64 Posts
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
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MonsieurGrimm
Canada2441 Posts
On June 21 2011 06:40 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Look at Xel'Naga, and tell me how that map is not fine. But, if, if, but, rocks are used properly, there is no problem. It's not like there is a rock on a natural. Only on thirds or other bases. Are you expecting to be able to take 3 bases without making any army units at all? against forge fast expand, making that many zerglings/teching to roaches and making roaches that early hurts you a ton otherwise, you're right | ||
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