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Season 3 Ladder Pool Updates - Page 28

Forum Index > SC2 General
1410 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 26 27 28 29 30 71 Next
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
June 20 2011 21:57 GMT
#541
Actualy, i'd like to keep what we have if they're bgoing to put these instead. :/

They're all 4 pretty bad.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Misanthrope
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States924 Posts
June 20 2011 21:57 GMT
#542
Blizzard needs to stop accommodating people that like 'rush games'. I've never met any of these fabled folk. Seriously just institute GSL maps only, they should know by now they're bad at map design.
Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. - Benjamin Franklin
zawk9
Profile Joined March 2011
United States427 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-20 21:58:46
June 20 2011 21:58 GMT
#543
On June 21 2011 06:50 typedef struct wrote:


TL doesn't like them because they make the game more difficult and less like BW.



Huh? If anything they make the game far less difficult since you never have to learn how to macro off of more than two bases.
there's a bug in the new patch where the other player keeps killing all my dudes.. please nerf this
Pipeline
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1673 Posts
June 20 2011 21:58 GMT
#544
On June 21 2011 05:07 Laurence wrote:
Way more impactful than the actual maps is whether they will have close positions or not. Will they?


Judging from the current state of Metalopolis that is in the ladder pool. Id say that close positions will most likely be possible
CEPEHDREI
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany1521 Posts
June 20 2011 21:58 GMT
#545
wow i dont like these maps at all. way too small and always so tight.
DensitY
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand74 Posts
June 20 2011 21:58 GMT
#546
On June 21 2011 06:47 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Show nested quote +
My view is largely on rock usage over expansions, which I do consider "bad". Rocks to block attacking paths are different as they ofter a Strategic option.


Well in that sense you could say that the rocks add more strategy because it makes the price of taking that expansion larger, over spending that time and money into something else.



True, you can consider it like, but I feel the price is large enough if one goes for a fast expansion because fast expansions often mean that all income is going towards economy. There'll be no standing ground army to defend a sudden attack. In my PvZ example, if a Zerg has to build a force to destroy rocks, he might as well go attack the Protoss since even if he destroys the rocks and expands he'll be behind, putting him into a position where he needs to deal damage to the protoss, who by then would have a force to defend. Now you could argue that they can expand somewhere else but again the risk is unfairly too high in my opinion. Rocks at expansions are pretty much only giving a player who scouts someone taking a FE at their natural in the ZvX matchup only one option to nip it in the butt.

pestilenz
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Denmark379 Posts
June 20 2011 22:00 GMT
#547
Why not just try to make the best out of the maps that are made?

I think most of them look nice and I am exited to see new maps. Must agree that it at some point can look a bit difficult to take a third on the first and third map. On the others though, I think it seems fairly easy to take a third for all races. But haven't Blizzard not already said that they make map for all ways to play? Some maps intentionally favoring rushes and others macro - correct me if I am wrong.

But still, exited for the new maps ^^
You can attack with this?!
Corrosive
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3741 Posts
June 20 2011 22:01 GMT
#548
I'm going to shoot myself with a nuclear bomb if these get into the game. seriously just put LSprime's and Jackyprime's maps along with other GSL maps

they are infinitely better designed, better looking, better everything. seriously. i don't see a reason why they are keeping these maps out of the game. every time new maps come out from blizzard everyone complains. and the maps deserve to be complained about. very bland maps, yet again.

at least they're better than slag pits, as far as i can see.
Maruprime.
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
June 20 2011 22:01 GMT
#549
I personally dislike these maps
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
MonsieurGrimm
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada2441 Posts
June 20 2011 22:02 GMT
#550
On June 21 2011 06:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Show nested quote +
against forge fast expand, making that many zerglings/teching to roaches and making roaches that early hurts you a ton

otherwise, you're right


Haha, yeah true. But making the gold there by the rocks, might be better than the rocks they put on a normal base on Tal'Darim. Hopefully!

yeah, if the thirds are gold then it makes up for the loss of making those units. unfortunately, right now on maps like taldarim where the 3rd is blocked and blue, I go 2 base hydra allin against FFE. usually it works because most protosses don't know how to hold it, but it still doesn't feel good.
On June 21 2011 06:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Protoss can 6 gate against a fast third. Boohoo, you were too greedy.

A Zerg can 6 pool a Protoss going Nexus first. Geez, that seems imbalanced.

the difference is that you can't reactively 6pool, it's a blind coin toss, but you can (probably) scout a fast 3rd and 6gate.
"60% of the time, it works - every time" - Brian Fantana on Double Reactors All The Way // "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt
Megaliskuu
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5123 Posts
June 20 2011 22:02 GMT
#551
How hard is it to put the universally used tournament maps into the ladder pool. Who the hell is behind this anyway? Surely a Blizzard guy such as David Kim (who is actually decent at sc2, unlike most of the casualite appeasers), wouldn't like this shit?!
|BW>Everything|Add me on star2 KR server TheMuTaL.675 for practice games :)|NEX clan| https://www.dotabuff.com/players/183104694
Ballistixz
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1269 Posts
June 20 2011 22:02 GMT
#552
explain how any one of these maps are good for zerg
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
June 20 2011 22:03 GMT
#553
So, how should I as a Zerg play on the new maps?

Kerrigan's Wrath looks very Spanishiwa-friendly. I'm thinking of placing spines near my ramp to defend my nat, and later moving them down to defend the shared choke to my nat and my third.
Toadvine
Profile Joined November 2010
Poland2234 Posts
June 20 2011 22:04 GMT
#554
On June 21 2011 06:47 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Show nested quote +
It's not about human mistakes, this game just has completely out-of-whack interactions between the base units of various races. How is low-econ aggression supposed to work for Zerg if they are, by design (courtesy of David Kim @ Blizzcon), incapable of pressuring a one-basing player? How is the low eco thing supposed to work out if Terran has, by design, the highest 1 base income of all the races?

I wouldn't care about "rush maps" or whatever if these scenarios provided equal opportunity for all races, but they just don't.


That wasn't the point of my post, idk why you started with that.
Who says that Zerg was designed that way? Zerg can put on their own kinds of pressure. Totally disagree there.

You can't compare them just by their income and say, Terran works best in low econ situations. Also, that's only when you're talking about saturated bases and if the Terran doesn't use his energy for anything else.

Now, is it true most of the time? Probably. But what if the natural is so friggin huge that it's pretty much open from all angles except 5 degrees which is the ramp? That would be hard as hell for Terran to defend, while it wouldn't be a problem for Zerg. So in that situation, Zerg could easily get 2 base vs 1.


David Kim said Zerg was designed that way, at Blizzcon 2010, Multiplayer Panel if I remember correctly. Early Zerg units aren't supposed to be good at attacking up ramps. Surely, if you look at the Roach and Zergling, you'll see that there is some merit to this statement.

Actually, Terrans have a higher mineral income from the moment their OC finishes, assuming they MULE consistently. Look at Lalush's macro analysis thread, it's all there. Incidentally, Terrans suffer the least from pulling their workers to attack too, so I would indeed argue that they work best in low-econ situations.

Finally, Zerg doesn't like completely open naturals at all. Their defense against very early aggression (before ling speed) depends on spine crawlers, which are terrible in open spaces. This is why things like 2 rax or hellions are really good on Xel'Naga Caverns, and a lot worse on Shakuras.

"There are always some Eskimos ready to instruct the Congolese on how to cope with heat waves." - S.J.Lec
Mortal
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
2943 Posts
June 20 2011 22:04 GMT
#555
Can we just have Terminus RE and Crevasse? Like swallow your pride and put them in Blizzard! These maps look... I don't want to say awful, but underwhelming.
The universe created an audience for itself.
1st_Panzer_Div.
Profile Joined November 2010
United States621 Posts
June 20 2011 22:05 GMT
#556
I hate the looks of Kerrigan's Destructable Rocks. I like the basic ideas behind them, but it looks like it may be very, very difficult to hold once the rocks are destroyed. But maybe when playing on it, it'll work out.

As long as these maps are replacing backwater gultch and the likes, not much to complain about. (If they are removing tal'adrium and meta or something, I just might cry)
Manager, Team RIP ZeeZ
Nerski
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1095 Posts
June 20 2011 22:05 GMT
#557
On June 21 2011 01:21 Two_DoWn wrote:
Looks like blizzard still doenst get it.


That's my impression as well, all their reasonings for the way they make maps would make sense if they made all the races to work in every possible positioning equally but they don't.
Twitter: @GoForNerski /// Youtube: Youtube.com/nerskisc
Wren
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States745 Posts
June 20 2011 22:06 GMT
#558
On June 21 2011 06:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
A Zerg can 6 pool a Protoss going Nexus first. Geez, that seems imbalanced.

Your analysis in reply to my first bit was exactly right, you can't take that third quickly.

Rocks are a very temporary barricade, and provide a much larger boon to defense when used with units with useful range, rather than against them, making them minimally useful on defense for Zergs.

As for this little tidbit, it's just wrong. Zerg must go 6 pool before doing anything else, including scouting position, nevermind first building choice.

We saw today exactly what order of events that 6 pool brings, and how the greediest of Protoss builds can still allow a wall to be up in time.

Also, PvZ sees 6gate, but never ever nexus first.
We're here! We're queer! We don't want any more bears!
Daralii
Profile Joined March 2010
United States16991 Posts
June 20 2011 22:07 GMT
#559
On June 21 2011 06:57 Misanthrope wrote:
Blizzard needs to stop accommodating people that like 'rush games'. I've never met any of these fabled folk. Seriously just institute GSL maps only, they should know by now they're bad at map design.

Well there's BitByBit, and... I can't think of anyone else tbh.
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
June 20 2011 22:07 GMT
#560
meh. Looks better than the majority of the current maps but still uninspired. Just better not lose Shakuras, Xel'naga, or Tal'darim -.-;
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