EPTOn June 21 2011 07:07 Daralii wrote:
Well there's BitByBit, and... I can't think of anyone else tbh.
Well there's BitByBit, and... I can't think of anyone else tbh.
he retired.
Season 3 Ladder Pool Updates - Page 29
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
he retired. | ||
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Monox1de
United States101 Posts
My impression on the maps just at first glance would be they look like the maps that they added in season 2. I just hope they don't feel anything like slag pits. | ||
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Megaliskuu
United States5123 Posts
On June 21 2011 07:07 Daralii wrote: Well there's BitByBit, and... I can't think of anyone else tbh. Johnny Bronze who has money to spare for the next 2 expansions. | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On June 21 2011 07:09 Monox1de wrote: Are these maps on the PTR? It seems you have all made up your minds by just looking at the pictures of the maps. I can't do that i need to play the maps a few times to feel them out. I'm sure there are ups and downs to each map but it's up in the air for me until i have played them a few times each. My impression on the maps just at first glance would be they look like the maps that they added in season 2. I just hope they don't feel anything like slag pits. No, the PTR isn't up. | ||
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jdsowa
405 Posts
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Mojar
Australia185 Posts
Map 2: Pretty Decent Map 3: Average at best Map 4: Could be good depending on map size | ||
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Clog
United States950 Posts
On June 21 2011 07:06 Wren wrote: Your analysis in reply to my first bit was exactly right, you can't take that third quickly. Rocks are a very temporary barricade, and provide a much larger boon to defense when used with units with useful range, rather than against them, making them minimally useful on defense for Zergs. As for this little tidbit, it's just wrong. Zerg must go 6 pool before doing anything else, including scouting position, nevermind first building choice. We saw today exactly what order of events that 6 pool brings, and how the greediest of Protoss builds can still allow a wall to be up in time. Also, PvZ sees 6gate, but never ever nexus first. Well that's kind of a lie, there have been plenty of nexus firsts in PvZ's... | ||
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Vari
United States532 Posts
On June 21 2011 07:12 jdsowa wrote: Blizz doesn't realize that zerg is built for the late game. Their T3 takes about 3:00 longer to tech to than the other races. They have to get to 3+ bases in order to get broodlords/ultras out. Toss/Terran T3 is very viable off 2 bases. The existence of these 'rush maps' and the persistence of close spawns ignores 1/3 of the races in their game. It's just mind-boggling. The game is balanced on paper, in that zerg have the strongest T1 units in terms of dps/cost and dps/supply. However, this is irrelevant when the other two races are walled in and drops take 3:00 to tech to. I'm resigned to the fact that this game will never be fixed. yeah they probably didn't realize all those numerical details they put in the game like 'build time' | ||
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Wren
United States745 Posts
On June 21 2011 07:14 Clog wrote: Well that's kind of a lie, there have been plenty of nexus firsts in PvZ's... Source please. I honestly can't remember any. | ||
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Bocian
Poland259 Posts
 . Why blizzard can't just add maps like crevasse or that new gsl beach map. And those rocks are soooo damn annoying :\ | ||
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Dezire
Netherlands640 Posts
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caelym
United States6424 Posts
On June 21 2011 06:57 Misanthrope wrote: Blizzard needs to stop accommodating people that like 'rush games'. I've never met any of these fabled folk. Seriously just institute GSL maps only, they should know by now they're bad at map design. I like play and watch rush games... early game micro is fun imo. | ||
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Fede
Uruguay114 Posts
Terminus RE, Crevasse, Crossfire and now Tal'Darim. | ||
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hitpoint
United States1511 Posts
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ayekuf
United Kingdom91 Posts
Map 1 will have imbalances to do with sieging the 3rd bases (golds) on certain spawn positions. High ground Xel'Naga towers dont help either. And the rush distances... Map 2 looks like steppes of war after a volcanic eruption with 2 spawn locations added. this obsession with having a "rush map" in the pool is retarded and Blizzard should stop using this mentality. Map 3 looks really hard to take a 3rd base and for some reason the map seems split in a daft way with a load of destructable rocks. The description scarily suggests you can spawn on the same "side" of the map which will make the attack distance way too small in my opinion. I think it will turn out to be heavily Terran favored. Map 4 "The Macro Map" (erm... why only one, everyone is begging for decent macro maps) seems like it might be the only really decent one. Quite good for going past the 2 base stage by the looks of it. Time will tell really. Seriously though they should allow Masters+GM league to regularly vote on a wide ranging map pool of competitive maps and have them implemented at that level (or at least some system to get rid of all the crap maps and get some good ones in). Or just have a bigger map pool with unlimited vetoes. You're still going to find an opponent and can actually practice a specific map if you are willing to wait a little longer for a match. Special shoutout to the Battle.net forum moderator who deleted my similar comment on their news article. Guess im not supposed to give my opinion. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
True, you can consider it like, but I feel the price is large enough if one goes for a fast expansion because fast expansions often mean that all income is going towards economy. There'll be no standing ground army to defend a sudden attack. In my PvZ example, if a Zerg has to build a force to destroy rocks, he might as well go attack the Protoss since even if he destroys the rocks and expands he'll be behind, putting him into a position where he needs to deal damage to the protoss, who by then would have a force to defend. Now you could argue that they can expand somewhere else but again the risk is unfairly too high in my opinion. Rocks at expansions are pretty much only giving a player who scouts someone taking a FE at their natural in the ZvX matchup only one option to nip it in the butt. Yup totally agree. I'm no pro here of course, but if I were to support that that situation is totally fair, it would be that if you let the Protoss get a FF on that kind of map where there are rocks blocking the third, then you deserve the disadvantage. So it comes down to the map I guess, for example Rock son Taldarim Third is quite annoying, and probably shouldn't be there. David Kim said Zerg was designed that way, at Blizzcon 2010, Multiplayer Panel if I remember correctly. Early Zerg units aren't supposed to be good at attacking up ramps. Surely, if you look at the Roach and Zergling, you'll see that there is some merit to this statement. Actually, Terrans have a higher mineral income from the moment their OC finishes, assuming they MULE consistently. Look at Lalush's macro analysis thread, it's all there. Incidentally, Terrans suffer the least from pulling their workers to attack too, so I would indeed argue that they work best in low-econ situations. Finally, Zerg doesn't like completely open naturals at all. Their defense against very early aggression (before ling speed) depends on spine crawlers, which are terrible in open spaces. This is why things like 2 rax or hellions are really good on Xel'Naga Caverns, and a lot worse on Shakuras. Totally missed that, thanks. True again. But basically my point is that, throughout many points of the early game, each race has all different kinds of advantages. Zerg is probably disadvantaged more than advantaged though, but that goes the same for if a T spawns far away positions, where a 2Rax opening (which is usually needed to keep a Zerg from doing anything greedier than a 14 hatch) is needed. I disagree a bit with the last part. It all depends how big and the shape of course, but generally, the wider it is, the more Z favored it is. I think we can agree that the wider a T's natural is first of all, the worse it is for them. Generally, it is also more Z favored, because there is more room to surround Hellions and less room for a T to push with early marines or such by hugging the walls. Again though, of course there are still specific situations where the wideopeness will not be as beneficial as a super closed area like LT where you can easily cover it with like 1 spine, but that's just talking about Z's natural and not T's. Your analysis in reply to my first bit was exactly right, you can't take that third quickly. Rocks are a very temporary barricade, and provide a much larger boon to defense when used with units with useful range, rather than against them, making them minimally useful on defense for Zergs. As for this little tidbit, it's just wrong. Zerg must go 6 pool before doing anything else, including scouting position, nevermind first building choice. We saw today exactly what order of events that 6 pool brings, and how the greediest of Protoss builds can still allow a wall to be up in time. Also, PvZ sees 6gate, but never ever nexus first. Ok, so that example was bad xD. I'm sure there are better examples, and hopefully there is one, then if not, then I guess I was wrong. My point is that you can be too greedy, and that any race can trick any race, but I'm not sure if that can be supported. | ||
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Dezire
Netherlands640 Posts
On June 21 2011 07:24 Fede wrote: People bitching about rocks notices that almost every single map from GSL has rocks? Terminus RE, Crevasse, Crossfire and now Tal'Darim. ya but not on the expansions... | ||
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WightyCity
Canada887 Posts
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Philo
United States337 Posts
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tytyclear
3 Posts
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