EPT
Season 3 Ladder Pool Updates - Page 30
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phanto
Sweden708 Posts
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DeepBlu2
United States975 Posts
I will obviously try them when they are available but judging by the pictures, the descriptions, they look pretty bad. Not to mention, they look so boring. They almost put me to sleep...None of the maps are exciting. | ||
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Ysellian
Netherlands9029 Posts
Oh but Keep the rocks. | ||
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Cofo
United States1388 Posts
I also found it interesting that they're straight-up admitting that they don't care about competition or balance in team matches. I mean, they're not wrong about higher-level players not caring, but it still struck me as a little surprising. | ||
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TigerKarl
1757 Posts
Map 2 is certainly going to be a down vote for me. | ||
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SCPenguin
United States19 Posts
On the second map, the placement of the natural relative to the main just seems. . . weird. Why are there three levels? just make the natural part of the main high ground or part of the low ground. Why does it have to be in the middle? As a side note, it is natural instinct for me to look at a new map and first thing I think is where can someone place a couple tanks to utterly destroy me? | ||
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Wren
United States745 Posts
On June 21 2011 07:27 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Ok, so that example was bad xD. I'm sure there are better examples, and hopefully there is one, then if not, then I guess I was wrong. My point is that you can be too greedy, and that any race can trick any race, but I'm not sure if that can be supported. The 2base roach rush against a greedy protoss expansion is probably a better example of punishment, but it's not very sneaky. The nature of wall-ins tends to allow P and T to be sneakier or safer w/ low unit counts than Z, but I really don't wanna get into the scouting debate again. EDIT: On June 21 2011 07:39 SCPenguin wrote: As a side note, it is natural instinct for me to look at a new map and first thing I think is where can someone place a couple tanks to utterly destroy me? As soon as people figured out that you could siege from the low ground w/ equal effect (Tal'Darim, either the low ground between 1st and 3rd or in front of the 2nd, w/ medivac elevators was the first time I saw it), that's the first thing I notice when looking at a new map too! | ||
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Megaliskuu
United States5123 Posts
On June 21 2011 07:39 SCPenguin wrote: As a side note, it is natural instinct for me to look at a new map and first thing I think is where can someone place a couple tanks to utterly destroy me? It's practically a meme in the BW community, you should look around at old threads, every time new maps come out its OMG THERE ARE CLIFFS TANKS IMBA THIS MAP TERRAN FAVORED. | ||
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perestain
Germany308 Posts
Why isn't blizzard letting people play the maps they actally want to play and which are used in all the tournaments watched by thousands...? The ladder is already infested with cheese and 1 or 2 base allin play, yet blizzard keeps adding crappy maps to further reward this style. At least the 4th map looks okayish, so there is hope that there will be enough downvotes available for next ladder season if they replace scrap station, delta quadrant and backwater gulch. But seriously why would anyone ever prefer to play on any of those rocky-gold maps instead of the gsl and mlg tournamet maps? Even if I only play casually I'd prefer an official tournament map anyday over some random rush-map. Why is money wasted for the development of this when it would be much easier and much more fun to just mirror the gsl/nasl/mlg mappol?. The community should really be able to have a say on what maps they want to ladder on imo, its been a big joke since release. | ||
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maybelunarox
Poland74 Posts
Casual players in one, two, eight months time theyll find another game to entertain themselves. Its the hardcore fanbase(not in the strict sense of that word) that keeps the game alive. Hey, you did BW, you should know that. Putting those bad 1v1 maps, they're not good for the real players who wanna keep improving. Its not good for the game then. | ||
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friedchicken
United States143 Posts
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shmoo
United States139 Posts
On June 21 2011 06:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: + Show Spoiler + In regards to your first fallacy, macro games teach people how to macro, how to scout, how to multi task, and how to manage resources properly. Cheese and all ins are totally viable and appropriate for BOX matches, but are worthless on the ladder. Cheese and all ins are not difficult to execute and you generally do not care what your opponent is doing. Imagine every TvZ you played was on meta close positions. So every game you did some kind of marine + scv all in. The moment that close position gets removed, or you play on a map like Tal Darim, you have absolutely NO IDEA how to play. You can still do cheese and all ins on maps like Tal Darim, Crevasse, and Terminus RE, but you can also play a straight up game. Now onto your second fallacy. The ramp on Crevasse takes two forcefields to block the ramp if you destroy the rocks while it only takes one if the rocks are up. In addition, the more narrow a choke is, the more it favors the defender. If you can honestly say that you have never seen a pro 4gate on Crevasse and knock down the opponents rocks, then you are not watching. Then your third and likely not final fallacy. If zerg takes a fast third in response to a perceived FE by the protoss, the protoss can punish that with a canceled nexus 4 gate. Which can and does happen. Protoss can also 6 gate against a fast third, which can and does happen against both terran and zerg. Any more gems you would like to add to this thread? That's not a fallacy. What you don't seem to understand is that you have a choice to cheese or play a long macro game and therefore learn how to scout. Who cares if cheese doesn't work well in a Bo7, it's still a CHOICE. Third fallacy. Uh, don't be tricked by a canceled Nexus??? You can do that on any map, so it's irrelevant. If you say, you can be denied scouting. Then you took too greedy of a third. There's risks and rewards, the game's not gonna give you a "this option is 100% right and correct against X decision in Y scenario". Protoss can 6 gate against a fast third. Boohoo, you were too greedy. A Zerg can 6 pool a Protoss going Nexus first. Geez, that seems imbalanced. I hope these are some pretty not ugly gems. Maybe you can show me some not ugly gems if mine are ugly. I knew you would provide us with some more ignorance. You fail to understand the context of the discussion and instead retort like some 12 year old boy who got his feelings hurt. Right off the bat I notice that you failed to read let alone comprehend what I posted. I said that cheese WAS viable and good in a best out of X. I said cheese was a waste of time on the ladder due to how easy it is to execute. People are better off playing longer games if they are looking to improve. Now we were talking about why Blizzard doesn't help all of their players out by giving them "normal" and "macro" maps instead of all of these "rush" maps. You came up with some ideological fallacy that we have to have "rush" and "macro" maps in order to have a choice. That is simply not true. You can do super aggressive play on large maps such as Tal Darim, Crevasse, and Terminus. Just because a map is large and macro oriented, does not prevent there from being cheese or all ins. This also applies to "normal" maps like Xel Naga Caverns and Metalopolis. I provided a pretty clear example that illustrates the points I am trying to make. If you play Terran and every single one of your TvZ games are on Metalopolis close position, you can easily do a marine + scv all in every single game and have a very high win rate against zerg. You may even find that fun. What won't happen is any macro games what so ever. You will not learn how to properly macro, scout, multi task, harass aka learn to play the game. So when you get cross position or play on a map like Tal Darim, you will have no idea how to play. Now say we flip this scenario a little bit. Say you are Terran and every game you play against Zerg is cross position or close by air on Metalopolis. You can still do a marine + scv all in, and it will still win sometimes. You are going to win a lot less than on close positions though. Due to the drop in win percentage, you try other things. You learn to expand, to macro, to scout, etc. Now you can still save that marine + scv all in for the right time, but you also know how to play the game. Again we move to the next poor idea you have, because you fail to understand the context. Somebody else was talking about how difficult the third is to take on the third map. You stated that protoss would never four gate against a third base. I was simply providing an example that proved you were wrong. I at no point said anything about being tricked by a nexus cancel. This argument is about current common responses and current common builds applied to the new maps. Now obviously any player worth their salt knows that you cannot use the same opening or strategy on each map. When new maps come out and people are trying to figure how to play on them, we have to start from somewhere. One of the best things to do with new maps is to sit down and figure out how you are going to get a 3rd base. Another great thing to do is try and take a safe build from a similar map and see if it works on the new map. So the fact that protoss can 4gate and 6 gate on any map is very relevant to this discussion. It is perfectly reasonable to take these new maps, imagine trying current builds on various spawn positions, and think about what would happen. People expressing concern over the close spawn positions is totally valid. It will be very difficult to take a 3rd in that situation. Now the last block of text you posted really has me confused. It comes across like you were somehow upset by a post by a stranger on the internet about a game. I really hope that is not the case. If it is pm me and we can talk about a hug for you. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On June 21 2011 07:39 Wren wrote: EDIT: As soon as people figured out that you could siege from the low ground w/ equal effect (Tal'Darim, either the low ground between 1st and 3rd or in front of the 2nd, w/ medivac elevators was the first time I saw it), that's the first thing I notice when looking at a new map too! ^ for me I always think of how good siege and FF can/might be on maps as well when I look at a map =_=; | ||
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LittleAtari
Jordan1090 Posts
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xza
Singapore1600 Posts
a. 4gate b. 6gate c. blink rush d. 3 rax e. 1 rax expo into stim/combat shield tank timing f. 2 base double robo colo timing g. high econ bane bust | ||
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iDrone
United States176 Posts
I feel like they have not fully experimented with these maps, particularly in the late game. Siege tanks protecting 1 base while hitting another is going to be extremely effective. Small corridors with smaller expansions is going to be extremely easy to shutdown ground harassment. Why blizzard can't make a map without rocks is beyond me. | ||
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maybelunarox
Poland74 Posts
idrA said he's incompetent. maybe idra knows best | ||
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Treetop
United States140 Posts
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coolcor
520 Posts
Then people can chose between the "variety" and rushing of the blizzard maps or the tournament maps for balance or if they wanna play like and copy the pros or train for a tournament. It would also let the tournaments do what they want with maps without worrying about keeping a few ladder maps in because anyone can practice them now without being on a pro team. | ||
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Frequencyy
United States344 Posts
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