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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4MvvH.png)
Now that the regular season is over, the playoffs are set to begin Wednesday, June 15th. Before that however, we have a few tiebreaks to play in order to determine the final seeding for the playoffs:
Below are the tibreak games that will be broadcast Tuesday, June 14th @ 9pm EST.
Playoff Seeding Tiebreaks
Axslav vs CrunCher (for 16th / 17th seed)
TT1 vs HasuObs (for 12th / 13th seed)
BRAT_OK vs Socke (for 18th / 19th seed)
Fenix vs IdrA vs NaDa vs SjoW (for 7th / 8th / 9th / 10th seed)
Grand Final Seeding Tiebreaks
SeleCT vs Sen (for 6 / 7th seed)
How does it work?: BO1 games.
What about the 4 way tie: A four player bracket, seeded randomly. NaDa vs Fenix first, IdrA vs SjoW. The winners fight for 7/8 seed... the losers fight for 9/10 seed.
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awesome something fun with a ton of good players to watch on tuesday
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i think your seeding numbers are wrong. Nada/Idra/Sjow/Fenix cant get 7,8,9,10 as those are already taken. You mention Select vs Sen for 6/7 right after that. Can't have two 7s
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Since nobody is being eliminated bo1 seems best. Should be exciting!
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loser of select-sen is 7th seed. winner of the 4 way tie is 7th seed aswell? confused.
looking forward to some good and important nasl games!
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select vs sen is for grand final, the rest is for playoffs.
Are the current standings posted anywhere? I guess they'll be updated after the EU cast on the nasl site, just curious if someone has already compiled them.
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i think i figured this out. Those are two different brackets. Select vs Sen is championship bracket ie already in finals.
The other numbers are the losers bracket trying to get to finals.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
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On June 14 2011 03:48 motbob wrote:
OK! Time for me to make the playoff brackets! :D
one sec...
You are doing an awesome job 
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Idra with 3 ZvTs. looking good!
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BO1 :/ are you serious? I know these matches have to be broadcast but that kinda sucks to have your tiebreak be determined by one game.
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On June 14 2011 03:53 Bluedraqy wrote:
Idra with 3 ZvTs. looking good!
As long as he doesn't get proxy 2 rax'd -_-
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Sorry if this is a dumb question but if fenix/idra/nada/sjow are fighting for 7th/8th/9th/10th does that mean the 4 of them get into the playoffs no matter what? From what I understood from the casters it almost sounded like idras tiebreaker games would be just to be in the playoffs.
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Nobody is getting eliminated. This is just for bracket seeding so that's why it's just a BO1.
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On June 14 2011 03:56 GenoZStriker wrote:
BO1 :/ are you serious? I know these matches have to be broadcast but that kinda sucks to have your tiebreak be determined by one game.
They just played for 9 weeks and no one is getting eliminated.
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The seed that select/sen are fighting for is the 6th/7th seed in the LAN as they have already qualified (finishing in the top 2 of his group).
The 7th etc. seed that the other players are fighting for is a seed in the qualifier brackets for the LAN. They need to seed the 11th-30th players in order to determine the 5 brackets of 4 people.
These qualifiers are going to be intense. Looking at some of those groups of 4... so many awesome players that aren't going to make it through.
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On June 14 2011 03:58 hunts wrote:
Sorry if this is a dumb question but if fenix/idra/nada/sjow are fighting for 7th/8th/9th/10th does that mean the 4 of them get into the playoffs no matter what? From what I understood from the casters it almost sounded like idras tiebreaker games would be just to be in the playoffs.
The top 30 are in the playoffs. They are fighting for seeding within the playoffs. 10 players qualified for the grand finals, but none of those 4 made it directly into the finals.
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On June 14 2011 03:59 Naniwa wrote:
will be so nice when season is over so i can finally leave this league... unplayable lag and on insane times at night -_-;;
And if you hit the LAN and win $50000... are you going to change your mind? 
It's long and arduous... but the prize pool is crazy.
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On June 14 2011 03:59 Naniwa wrote:
will be so nice when season is over so i can finally leave this league... unplayable lag and on insane times at night -_-;;
thats why online isn't good globally
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On June 14 2011 03:56 GenoZStriker wrote:
BO1 :/ are you serious? I know these matches have to be broadcast but that kinda sucks to have your tiebreak be determined by one game.
This reminds me a lot of college football, where people at the end of the year like to rank the "1 loss" teams. My thinking has always been that if you don't want to leave it to chance (as a player), don't lose (since you'd then be a top seed). Otherwise, it's up to the tournament people to tie break in whatever way they see fit.
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I'm glad to see MoMaN made it into the playoffs, disproving those haters :DD
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On June 14 2011 04:10 abdiris wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2011 03:56 GenoZStriker wrote:
BO1 :/ are you serious? I know these matches have to be broadcast but that kinda sucks to have your tiebreak be determined by one game. This reminds me a lot of college football, where people at the end of the year like to rank the "1 loss" teams. My thinking has always been that if you don't want to leave it to chance (as a player), don't lose (since you'd then be a top seed). Otherwise, it's up to the tournament people to tie break in whatever way they see fit.
Touche
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Maps? Will the players veto one map at the time from the NASL map pool until one remains?
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So. I guess playoffs will be formed like this
A - 1, 10, 11, 20 (Zenio, Idra or Fenix or Sjow or Nada, Mana, dde)
B - 2, 9, 12, 19 (Ace, Idra or Fenix or Sjow or Nada, TT1 or Hasuobs, BRAT_OK or Socke)
C - 3, 8, 13, 18 (Morrow, Idra or Fenix or Sjow or Nada, TT1 or Hasuobs, BRAT_OK or Socke)
D - 4, 7, 14, 17 (Naniwa, Idra or Fenix or Sjow or Nada, Darkforce, Axslav or Cruncher)
E - 5, 6, 15, 16 (MC, Kiwikaki, Moman, Axslav or Cruncher)
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On June 14 2011 03:57 Grackodile wrote:As long as he doesn't get proxy 2 rax'd -_-
Cheese works on any player, including nestea, if you miss the scout.
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Nice, don't think we'll be seeing any special strategies or such since these aren't too important matches.
Will there be a restream for Europe aswell?
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Amazing that we get to see even more games now! xD
Only sad thing is that it is only BO1 :/
Anyway, many matches should compensate that.
Keep up the great work NASL!!
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On June 14 2011 03:59 Naniwa wrote:
will be so nice when season is over so i can finally leave this league... unplayable lag and on insane times at night -_-;;
I didn't realize Europeans also had bad times - Koreans are always complaining their 3-6am slots, doesn't that translate to evening time in Europe? Or is Naniwa referring to when he moves to Korea? Anyways, =(
On the plus side, based on Motbob's latest full rankings - I think with TLO/Naniwa out, Tyler may avoid relegation.
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On June 14 2011 03:59 Naniwa wrote:
will be so nice when season is over so i can finally leave this league... unplayable lag and on insane times at night -_-;;
>.<
Sucks to hear, the league has so much promise, but obviously being international this was inevitable.
Good luck though! Dignitas FIGHTING!
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Sounds good!
Go go Nada! Meet Boxer in the Finals!
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Naniwa..i am disappoint.
Koreans play with the same or worse lag with the same or worse time slots. Like 4 out of the top 10 are koreans. You are one of my fav players so no reason to say such comments. if you dont like to play in it or dont like the times thats your own call to make but to say its unplayable is ultimately an exaggeration and probably an excuse for your own struggles.
Moon MorroW July White-Ra Strelok
Squirtle Ret Select Boxer Sen
How many of them are even NA players? 1? No reason to bring latency into this.
EDIT:
Also, stream more naniwa!
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On June 14 2011 04:54 yoshi_yoshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2011 03:59 Naniwa wrote:
will be so nice when season is over so i can finally leave this league... unplayable lag and on insane times at night -_-;; I didn't realize Europeans also had bad times - Koreans are always complaining their 3-6am slots, doesn't that translate to evening time in Europe? Or is Naniwa referring to when he moves to Korea? Anyways, =( On the plus side, based on Motbob's latest full rankings - I think with TLO/Naniwa out, Tyler may avoid relegation.
Our time period is 21 CET -- 01 CET .
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On June 14 2011 04:58 TheResidentEvil wrote:
Naniwa..i am disappoint.
Koreans play with the same or worse lag with the same or worse time slots. Like 4 out of the top 10 are koreans. You are one of my fav players so no reason to say such comments. if you dont like to play in it or dont like the times thats your own call to make but to say its unplayable is ultimately an exaggeration and probably an excuse for your own struggles.
Considering he finished the season 6-2 I'd hardly say he's struggling. I don't really know how the time slots for the NASL work, but from what little I have read it seems like it really gives international players a disadvantage, or is at least very inconvenient for them.
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On June 14 2011 04:10 abdiris wrote:
My thinking has always been that if you don't want to leave it to chance (as a player), don't lose (since you'd then be a top seed).
OOHHHHHHH
Damn I didn't realize all these players were intending to lose some matches to be in this position
Yeah you're right they should definitely decide to not lose next time
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On June 14 2011 03:59 Naniwa wrote:
will be so nice when season is over so i can finally leave this league... unplayable lag and on insane times at night -_-;;
There was a reason Jinro and Huk decided not to participate in NASL . I think it's safe to say you will be out of NASL 2? I hope to see you in the GSL. Naniwa fighting!
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On June 14 2011 04:58 TheResidentEvil wrote:
Naniwa..i am disappoint.
Koreans play with the same or worse lag with the same or worse time slots. Like 4 out of the top 10 are koreans.
Just because some players can win a series even under unfair conditions doesn't justify the way rules are set up.
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Yeah, I mean playing a max of three games a week in a $100000 tournament must be really hard.
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On June 14 2011 05:18 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2011 04:58 TheResidentEvil wrote:
Naniwa..i am disappoint.
Koreans play with the same or worse lag with the same or worse time slots. Like 4 out of the top 10 are koreans. Just because some players can win a series even under unfair conditions doesn't justify the way rules are set up.
Well the rules are the rules, no one is being forced to participate. I really like Naniwa but he can choose to opt out if he doesn't like the format. If NASL wants to run it that way they have the right to, they're putting up the cash as a reward. If they set up rules that disfavour some players and those players choose not to sign up (eg. Naniwa), then that will send a message that maybe they should change.
But again, it's up to NASL, if what they're doing works for the majority of players and the general public then they're probably making good decisions.
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On June 14 2011 05:18 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2011 04:58 TheResidentEvil wrote:
Naniwa..i am disappoint.
Koreans play with the same or worse lag with the same or worse time slots. Like 4 out of the top 10 are koreans. Just because some players can win a series even under unfair conditions doesn't justify the way rules are set up.
do europeans lag that bad playing on US? I play on EU from US and it feels to me like i'm playing on US, I don't have any latency at all. I figured it was the same for Eu but obviously not.
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guess you guys are right, i didnt realise that it would be so bad times when i joined obviously, ive learned from my mistakes tho! which is why im withdrawing. only reason i even wrote it in public was so that maybe NASL would fix it for the future participants ( there is alot of room for improvement if they really want ) . I guess there are better ways to get my thoughts across. please ignore the comment above.  .
quote from other page.
do europeans lag that bad playing on US? I play on EU from US and it feels to me like i'm playing on US, I don't have any latency at all. I figured it was the same for Eu but obviously not.
when i was at TSL finals i practised with some europeans and i had absolutely no lag on europe, But from europe to US is a completly different story .
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On June 14 2011 03:57 Grackodile wrote:As long as he doesn't get proxy 2 rax'd -_-
and none of them kill their own CC's
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On June 14 2011 05:47 sereniity wrote:even tho you're being honest it's quite lame to write this, kind of hating on the NASL, don't you think?
yup, its called the North American Star League for a reason, these scenarios where obviosly going to be the case from the start and if you dont like them then dont join the league :/
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On June 14 2011 05:41 Naniwa wrote:guess you guys are right, i didnt realise that it would be so bad times when i joined obviously, ive learned from my mistakes tho! which is why im withdrawing. only reason i even wrote it in public was so that maybe NASL would fix it for the future participants ( there is alot of room for improvement if they really want ) . I guess there are better ways to get my thoughts across. please ignore the comment above. . quote from other page. do europeans lag that bad playing on US? I play on EU from US and it feels to me like i'm playing on US, I don't have any latency at all. I figured it was the same for Eu but obviously not. when i was at TSL finals i practised with some europeans and i had absolutely no lag on europe, But from europe to US is a completly different story .
Oh I agree. While it is the "NA" starleague, it doesn't make sense to make it disadvantageous to other regions by both time AND server played. I don't see why it wasn't feasible to try to schedule different times for different regions, like KR vs NA could play at X time where it wasn't in the middle of the night, while NA vs EU could play at Y time where it also wans't in the middle of the night/morning for either player, and lastly KR vs EU could have Z time to play that made the most sense for them. Overall good season though, glad to see a lot of my favorites making it into the playoffs and grand finals!
Dignitas fighting!
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On June 14 2011 05:48 MagickMan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2011 05:47 sereniity wrote:On June 14 2011 03:59 Naniwa wrote:
even tho you're being honest it's quite lame to write this, kind of hating on the NASL, don't you think? yup, its called the North American Star League for a reason, these scenarios where obviosly going to be the case from the start and if you dont like them then dont join the league :/
The point is, $100k is enough of a motivation for genuine good players to join the qualifiers regardless of terms. We know it, the players know it, and most importantly, NASL knows it. So because they're getting the players either way, they can afford not to care (for now at least).
In the end it's up to NASL to decide, on their own, whether they want to be fair and responsible as an organization and set up the rules that would make a series between any two players as fair as technically possible OR to completely ignore the issue because there's nothing directly forcing them to implement fair rules. Needless to say, the second decision is not classy at all.
This isn't NASL at all. They knew it would be a global league from day 1 (only KR was questionable I guess). Nobody in their right business mind would throw 100k and what I imagine are insane production costs otherwise. Korean and European invites essentially justify the investment and make the whole league/idea viable in the first place, and the league won't even make a small effort of giving them at least 1 game in a BO3 on their home servers.
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I think Naniwa is referring to the fact that EUvsEU is played on NA and KORvsEU is played on NA too. He hopes this rule will be changed, and I'm with him, as this is just affecting the quality of the games, which is bad for everyone.
edit : did Nani really retire from NASL ? Bleh, so sad TT
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On June 14 2011 06:48 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2011 05:48 MagickMan wrote:On June 14 2011 05:47 sereniity wrote:On June 14 2011 03:59 Naniwa wrote:
even tho you're being honest it's quite lame to write this, kind of hating on the NASL, don't you think? yup, its called the North American Star League for a reason, these scenarios where obviosly going to be the case from the start and if you dont like them then dont join the league :/ The point is, $100k is enough of a motivation for genuine good players to join the qualifiers regardless of terms. We know it, the players know it, and most importantly, NASL knows it. So because they're getting the players either way, they can afford not to care (for now at least). In the end it's up to NASL to decide, on their own, whether they want to be fair and responsible as an organization and set up the rules that would make a series between any two players as fair as technically possible OR to completely ignore the issue because there's nothing directly forcing them to implement fair rules. Needless to say, the second decision is not classy at all. This isn't NASL at all. They knew it would be a global league from day 1 (only KR was questionable I guess). Nobody in their right business mind would throw 100k and what I imagine are insane production costs otherwise. Korean and European invites essentially justify the investment and make the whole league/idea viable in the first place, and the league won't even make a small effort of giving them at least 1 game in a BO3 on their home servers.
Please stop posting to simply raise your post count.
User was warned for this post
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I'd like to hear from more European players about the lag. Some have been pretty vocal about it (Naniwa, Adelscott, etc.) but others not as much. Also, while it was obviously terrible for some Koreans, players such as Nada often demonstrated really good banshee micro, which shouldn't be possible with too bad of a latency. So it would be interesting to hear how widespread the problems actually are.
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On June 14 2011 07:22 xtfftc wrote:
I'd like to hear from more European players about the lag. Some have been pretty vocal about it (Naniwa, Adelscott, etc.) but others not as much. Also, while it was obviously terrible for some Koreans, players such as Nada often demonstrated really good banshee micro, which shouldn't be possible with too bad of a latency. So it would be interesting to hear how widespread the problems actually are.
I guess it's more like some people play better under some conditions than other. If Naniwa doesn't like the conditions, but didn't know about them before played some games in the NASL, it's only fair for him to withdraw from season 2. Lots of other good players to fill the spots anyway.
It's not like NASL is the only tournament in the world...
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omfg nada hype machine.
NaDa's been on fire in korea, if he takes this tourney seriously, he'll stomp.
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The times are set because they record everything while the games are played. Gretorp and incontrol are casting in a studio to live games. So they have to do it during the daytime in california when everyone is at work. They can't just do it in the middle of the night. All of their staff can't be working all day and night. They have to do it during the daytime for the people in california.
The only possible solution is to cast from replays. Other than that there isn't much they can do...
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On June 14 2011 05:41 Naniwa wrote:guess you guys are right, i didnt realise that it would be so bad times when i joined obviously, ive learned from my mistakes tho! which is why im withdrawing. only reason i even wrote it in public was so that maybe NASL would fix it for the future participants ( there is alot of room for improvement if they really want ) . I guess there are better ways to get my thoughts across. please ignore the comment above. . quote from other page. do europeans lag that bad playing on US? I play on EU from US and it feels to me like i'm playing on US, I don't have any latency at all. I figured it was the same for Eu but obviously not. when i was at TSL finals i practised with some europeans and i had absolutely no lag on europe, But from europe to US is a completly different story .
Disappointing, but I can't fault you for wanting to play in an optimal condition. GL in the future!
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On June 14 2011 06:17 Kazeyonoma wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2011 05:41 Naniwa wrote:guess you guys are right, i didnt realise that it would be so bad times when i joined obviously, ive learned from my mistakes tho! which is why im withdrawing. only reason i even wrote it in public was so that maybe NASL would fix it for the future participants ( there is alot of room for improvement if they really want ) . I guess there are better ways to get my thoughts across. please ignore the comment above. . quote from other page. do europeans lag that bad playing on US? I play on EU from US and it feels to me like i'm playing on US, I don't have any latency at all. I figured it was the same for Eu but obviously not. when i was at TSL finals i practised with some europeans and i had absolutely no lag on europe, But from europe to US is a completly different story . Oh I agree. While it is the "NA" starleague, it doesn't make sense to make it disadvantageous to other regions by both time AND server played. I don't see why it wasn't feasible to try to schedule different times for different regions, like KR vs NA could play at X time where it wasn't in the middle of the night, while NA vs EU could play at Y time where it also wans't in the middle of the night/morning for either player, and lastly KR vs EU could have Z time to play that made the most sense for them. Overall good season though, glad to see a lot of my favorites making it into the playoffs and grand finals! Dignitas fighting!
If you did that, the casters would have to be at the studio for just about 24 hours to accommodate everyone's schedule.
I'm not too sure why the players are complaining. This is a league with a high prize pool. TBH NASL needs to ignore these players requests, because if they don't like it, they can leave and new players will be there to take the spots. They knew what they were signing up for, and if they aren't willing to set aside extra time in order to do their matches, or change their sleep schedule a little bit, then they can get out of the league and someone who is willing to will do that. I guess $50,000 doesn't speak loud and clear for some people as I thought it would.
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IMO the 10 seed is the easiest bracket for the 4 way tie group. If I were Idra I would throw my tiebreaker games.
Although I'm not sure what is going on with Naniwa now, that could be a decent bracket. I would hate to get Ace though. 10 seems pretty manageable.
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Cast from replays if that means better production values and better games, and more fair games.
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On June 14 2011 08:05 PGriff wrote:
IMO the 10 seed is the easiest bracket for the 4 way tie group. If I were IdrA I would throw my tiebreaker games.
He probably will throw it via GGing early.
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On June 14 2011 05:41 Naniwa wrote:guess you guys are right, i didnt realise that it would be so bad times when i joined obviously, ive learned from my mistakes tho! which is why im withdrawing. only reason i even wrote it in public was so that maybe NASL would fix it for the future participants ( there is alot of room for improvement if they really want ) . I guess there are better ways to get my thoughts across. please ignore the comment above. . quote from other page. do europeans lag that bad playing on US? I play on EU from US and it feels to me like i'm playing on US, I don't have any latency at all. I figured it was the same for Eu but obviously not. when i was at TSL finals i practised with some europeans and i had absolutely no lag on europe, But from europe to US is a completly different story .
are you atleast staying for the end of the season though? this thread has me confused. sweden hwaiting D:
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On June 14 2011 08:06 elementz wrote:
Cast from replays if that means better production values and better games, and more fair games.
Agreed, while cast live have that "wow, it live!" factor, its better for an global online tournament to cast from replay for all sorts of reasons (logistic, fairplay and other). Casting live but broadcast later seems to have none of advantages and some of the faults IMO.
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On June 14 2011 05:41 Naniwa wrote:when i was at TSL finals i practised with some europeans and i had absolutely no lag on europe, But from europe to US is a completly different story .
US to Europe is generally better, especially from TLHQ since we're on the East coast. The packets have to go to to I believe France? where EU bnet is, which is quite central to Europe. From TLHQ this takes 100ms, a reasonable ping.
Europe to US is much worse since Blizzard located the US servers on the US West coast, adding another 80ms at least to get across the whole US, so EU to US would be closer to 200ms.
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On June 14 2011 03:59 Naniwa wrote:
You just spent half a a year playing in the Black Dragon League for $3000. Surely you can play two more weeks in NASL for $50,000?
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On June 14 2011 08:04 TheAuditor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2011 06:17 Kazeyonoma wrote:On June 14 2011 05:41 Naniwa wrote:guess you guys are right, i didnt realise that it would be so bad times when i joined obviously, ive learned from my mistakes tho! which is why im withdrawing. only reason i even wrote it in public was so that maybe NASL would fix it for the future participants ( there is alot of room for improvement if they really want ) . I guess there are better ways to get my thoughts across. please ignore the comment above. . quote from other page. do europeans lag that bad playing on US? I play on EU from US and it feels to me like i'm playing on US, I don't have any latency at all. I figured it was the same for Eu but obviously not. when i was at TSL finals i practised with some europeans and i had absolutely no lag on europe, But from europe to US is a completly different story . Oh I agree. While it is the "NA" starleague, it doesn't make sense to make it disadvantageous to other regions by both time AND server played. I don't see why it wasn't feasible to try to schedule different times for different regions, like KR vs NA could play at X time where it wasn't in the middle of the night, while NA vs EU could play at Y time where it also wans't in the middle of the night/morning for either player, and lastly KR vs EU could have Z time to play that made the most sense for them. Overall good season though, glad to see a lot of my favorites making it into the playoffs and grand finals! Dignitas fighting! If you did that, the casters would have to be at the studio for just about 24 hours to accommodate everyone's schedule. I'm not too sure why the players are complaining. This is a league with a high prize pool. TBH NASL needs to ignore these players requests, because if they don't like it, they can leave and new players will be there to take the spots. They knew what they were signing up for, and if they aren't willing to set aside extra time in order to do their matches, or change their sleep schedule a little bit, then they can get out of the league and someone who is willing to will do that. I guess $50,000 doesn't speak loud and clear for some people as I thought it would.
Um, it's casted from replays? Why wold casters be in the studio for 24 hours?
A lot of people didn't know what they are signing up for, hence Naniwa's words and why he is dropping out.
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On June 14 2011 08:24 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2011 08:04 TheAuditor wrote:On June 14 2011 06:17 Kazeyonoma wrote:On June 14 2011 05:41 Naniwa wrote:guess you guys are right, i didnt realise that it would be so bad times when i joined obviously, ive learned from my mistakes tho! which is why im withdrawing. only reason i even wrote it in public was so that maybe NASL would fix it for the future participants ( there is alot of room for improvement if they really want ) . I guess there are better ways to get my thoughts across. please ignore the comment above. . quote from other page. do europeans lag that bad playing on US? I play on EU from US and it feels to me like i'm playing on US, I don't have any latency at all. I figured it was the same for Eu but obviously not. when i was at TSL finals i practised with some europeans and i had absolutely no lag on europe, But from europe to US is a completly different story . Oh I agree. While it is the "NA" starleague, it doesn't make sense to make it disadvantageous to other regions by both time AND server played. I don't see why it wasn't feasible to try to schedule different times for different regions, like KR vs NA could play at X time where it wasn't in the middle of the night, while NA vs EU could play at Y time where it also wans't in the middle of the night/morning for either player, and lastly KR vs EU could have Z time to play that made the most sense for them. Overall good season though, glad to see a lot of my favorites making it into the playoffs and grand finals! Dignitas fighting! If you did that, the casters would have to be at the studio for just about 24 hours to accommodate everyone's schedule. I'm not too sure why the players are complaining. This is a league with a high prize pool. TBH NASL needs to ignore these players requests, because if they don't like it, they can leave and new players will be there to take the spots. They knew what they were signing up for, and if they aren't willing to set aside extra time in order to do their matches, or change their sleep schedule a little bit, then they can get out of the league and someone who is willing to will do that. I guess $50,000 doesn't speak loud and clear for some people as I thought it would. Um, it's casted from replays? Why wold casters be in the studio for 24 hours? A lot of people didn't know what they are signing up for, hence Naniwa's words and why he is dropping out.
They aren't casted from replays. Games are casted live but aired later.
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On June 14 2011 08:04 TheAuditor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2011 06:17 Kazeyonoma wrote:On June 14 2011 05:41 Naniwa wrote:guess you guys are right, i didnt realise that it would be so bad times when i joined obviously, ive learned from my mistakes tho! which is why im withdrawing. only reason i even wrote it in public was so that maybe NASL would fix it for the future participants ( there is alot of room for improvement if they really want ) . I guess there are better ways to get my thoughts across. please ignore the comment above. . quote from other page. do europeans lag that bad playing on US? I play on EU from US and it feels to me like i'm playing on US, I don't have any latency at all. I figured it was the same for Eu but obviously not. when i was at TSL finals i practised with some europeans and i had absolutely no lag on europe, But from europe to US is a completly different story . Oh I agree. While it is the "NA" starleague, it doesn't make sense to make it disadvantageous to other regions by both time AND server played. I don't see why it wasn't feasible to try to schedule different times for different regions, like KR vs NA could play at X time where it wasn't in the middle of the night, while NA vs EU could play at Y time where it also wans't in the middle of the night/morning for either player, and lastly KR vs EU could have Z time to play that made the most sense for them. Overall good season though, glad to see a lot of my favorites making it into the playoffs and grand finals! Dignitas fighting! If you did that, the casters would have to be at the studio for just about 24 hours to accommodate everyone's schedule. I'm not too sure why the players are complaining. This is a league with a high prize pool. TBH NASL needs to ignore these players requests, because if they don't like it, they can leave and new players will be there to take the spots. They knew what they were signing up for, and if they aren't willing to set aside extra time in order to do their matches, or change their sleep schedule a little bit, then they can get out of the league and someone who is willing to will do that. I guess $50,000 doesn't speak loud and clear for some people as I thought it would.
There is more to playing in a tournament than money.
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I think these seeds are for the 20 positions of the playoffs (or whatever you call trying to get in the 11-15 positions) but I haven't seen an article on nasl.tv that does a good job of explaining what exactly is going on, which is a bit frustrating.
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On June 14 2011 08:28 Nighthawks28 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2011 08:24 Heavenly wrote:On June 14 2011 08:04 TheAuditor wrote:On June 14 2011 06:17 Kazeyonoma wrote:On June 14 2011 05:41 Naniwa wrote:guess you guys are right, i didnt realise that it would be so bad times when i joined obviously, ive learned from my mistakes tho! which is why im withdrawing. only reason i even wrote it in public was so that maybe NASL would fix it for the future participants ( there is alot of room for improvement if they really want ) . I guess there are better ways to get my thoughts across. please ignore the comment above. . quote from other page. do europeans lag that bad playing on US? I play on EU from US and it feels to me like i'm playing on US, I don't have any latency at all. I figured it was the same for Eu but obviously not. when i was at TSL finals i practised with some europeans and i had absolutely no lag on europe, But from europe to US is a completly different story . Oh I agree. While it is the "NA" starleague, it doesn't make sense to make it disadvantageous to other regions by both time AND server played. I don't see why it wasn't feasible to try to schedule different times for different regions, like KR vs NA could play at X time where it wasn't in the middle of the night, while NA vs EU could play at Y time where it also wans't in the middle of the night/morning for either player, and lastly KR vs EU could have Z time to play that made the most sense for them. Overall good season though, glad to see a lot of my favorites making it into the playoffs and grand finals! Dignitas fighting! If you did that, the casters would have to be at the studio for just about 24 hours to accommodate everyone's schedule. I'm not too sure why the players are complaining. This is a league with a high prize pool. TBH NASL needs to ignore these players requests, because if they don't like it, they can leave and new players will be there to take the spots. They knew what they were signing up for, and if they aren't willing to set aside extra time in order to do their matches, or change their sleep schedule a little bit, then they can get out of the league and someone who is willing to will do that. I guess $50,000 doesn't speak loud and clear for some people as I thought it would. Um, it's casted from replays? Why wold casters be in the studio for 24 hours? A lot of people didn't know what they are signing up for, hence Naniwa's words and why he is dropping out. They aren't casted from replays. Games are casted live but aired later.
Ah, my apologies.
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On June 14 2011 05:41 Naniwa wrote:guess you guys are right, i didnt realise that it would be so bad times when i joined obviously, ive learned from my mistakes tho! which is why im withdrawing. only reason i even wrote it in public was so that maybe NASL would fix it for the future participants ( there is alot of room for improvement if they really want ) . I guess there are better ways to get my thoughts across. please ignore the comment above. . quote from other page. do europeans lag that bad playing on US? I play on EU from US and it feels to me like i'm playing on US, I don't have any latency at all. I figured it was the same for Eu but obviously not. when i was at TSL finals i practised with some europeans and i had absolutely no lag on europe, But from europe to US is a completly different story .
Wait what? Why would you withdraw now (unless you are saying after this season, in which case your wording is deceptive)? You only have a few more games to go before it is either over or you have a chance to go to a LAN in which case there won't be many of the issues you had.
Also, what are the improvements you would suggest? Going back and forth between servers likely wouldn't be ideal for the NASL, though allowing Europeans to play each other on the European server is a logical change that I think they should make. Share your thoughts!
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omg so many matchups this could be a really long night of NASL
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I think the other players are only keeping their thoughts to themselves. At least until the season ends. We'll just see how many of them will still be there in season 2. BTW, go go go go go go Boxer and Nada!!!!
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I think (I hope) you guys are misunderstanding Naniwa. From my understanding he is going to play out the season, and then withdraw.
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Has there been any comment on this potential mistake yet?
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On June 14 2011 08:01 DoomsVille wrote:
The times are set because they record everything while the games are played. Gretorp and incontrol are casting in a studio to live games. So they have to do it during the daytime in california when everyone is at work. They can't just do it in the middle of the night. All of their staff can't be working all day and night. They have to do it during the daytime for the people in california.
The only possible solution is to cast from replays. Other than that there isn't much they can do...
I think they'll have to start casting from replays if they want to continue to attract top players from Korea and Europe. Judging by the number of walkovers we've had this year, and the potential drop-outs for season 2, it does seem like the schedule is a detriment to the non-NA's. And maybe the lag would be alleviated if you didn't have 2 casters joined into every game.
Also the convenience of replay casting would presumably allow more production value to the show. More graphics, better pacing etc. TSL and IPL use replay casting and they've had success doing it. And it just seems like it's such and ordeal to live-cast unless all your players/casters are in the same location (like GSL or MLG).
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I find it kind of amazing that you play a group stage of 10 people and there are ties of this magnitude. You would think there would be tie breaking scenarios for this.
NASL has way too many games and then to have even more games for tiebreakers? They need to rethink their format.
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Woww,
Rooting for Fenix all the way! He looked so strong at MLG and hope that carries through :D
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On June 14 2011 08:45 Chicane wrote:
Wait what? Why would you withdraw now (unless you are saying after this season, in which case your wording is deceptive)? You only have a few more games to go before it is either over or you have a chance to go to a LAN in which case there won't be many of the issues you had.
Also, what are the improvements you would suggest? Going back and forth between servers likely wouldn't be ideal for the NASL, though allowing Europeans to play each other on the European server is a logical change that I think they should make. Share your thoughts!
There's a very simple solution to that which would accomodate most of the players in Korea and Europe. Have them cast off replay. This way players could play at a reasonable time and the casting wouldn't be affected that much. Personally since it's an online tournament with everything being casted a day before I wouldn't really care that much as a spectator if they started casting it from replay instead. They might as well since everything is pre recordered already If it can help players like Naniwa to still play in the league.
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i think nani is making the right choice and it's always good to see how the players actually feel about a tournament. good luck nani! go tear it up in korea!!!
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YOu know, if making it casted live is such a big deal and all that that it causes players like naniwa to not want to play in the league, then i'd rather it casted from replays so it's done by player convenience. If it's just regular season matches I don't see the big deal. It will only help the league.
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Any answer yet on why Morrow was awarded the no.2 seed over Ace?
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On June 14 2011 08:14 R1CH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2011 05:41 Naniwa wrote:when i was at TSL finals i practised with some europeans and i had absolutely no lag on europe, But from europe to US is a completly different story . US to Europe is generally better, especially from TLHQ since we're on the East coast. The packets have to go to to I believe France? where EU bnet is, which is quite central to Europe. From TLHQ this takes 100ms, a reasonable ping. Europe to US is much worse since Blizzard located the US servers on the US West coast, adding another 80ms at least to get across the whole US, so EU to US would be closer to 200ms.
Battle.Net is hosted on US West cost, but the game itself is hosted by one of the players (or an spectator) so it depends on the location of the hosted player and his internet connection.
I played on a trial account from EU (Germany) to US with no lag in my 10 games (yes this says not much)
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On June 14 2011 15:55 iNViCiOUZ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2011 08:14 R1CH wrote:On June 14 2011 05:41 Naniwa wrote:when i was at TSL finals i practised with some europeans and i had absolutely no lag on europe, But from europe to US is a completly different story . US to Europe is generally better, especially from TLHQ since we're on the East coast. The packets have to go to to I believe France? where EU bnet is, which is quite central to Europe. From TLHQ this takes 100ms, a reasonable ping. Europe to US is much worse since Blizzard located the US servers on the US West coast, adding another 80ms at least to get across the whole US, so EU to US would be closer to 200ms. Battle.Net is hosted on US West cost, but the game itself is hosted by one of the players (or an spectator) so it depends on the location of the hosted player and his internet connection. I played on a trial account from EU (Germany) to US with no lag in my 10 games (yes this says not much)
Host is almost irrelevant for SC2, All traffic passes through b.net servers and is delayed for (I think) 125ms extra by the server software itself. Blizzard's response to KESPA I suppose. Nobody on this planet will be able to host anything anymore without asking Blizz (and a server emulator is too easy to shut down in court).
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When do the actual NASL playoff games start airing? There is nothing up on the website...
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On June 14 2011 05:29 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2011 05:18 Talin wrote:On June 14 2011 04:58 TheResidentEvil wrote:
Naniwa..i am disappoint.
Koreans play with the same or worse lag with the same or worse time slots. Like 4 out of the top 10 are koreans. Just because some players can win a series even under unfair conditions doesn't justify the way rules are set up. do europeans lag that bad playing on US? I play on EU from US and it feels to me like i'm playing on US, I don't have any latency at all. I figured it was the same for Eu but obviously not.
Look @Mana. How many times in NASL did he had the drop counter pop up?
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On June 14 2011 03:48 motbob wrote:
Playoff brackets! :D
Uhhh I think there might be an error in NASL's standings on their website. I don't think Morrow is at +9...
Liquipedia here. We have the same numbers as Motbob, basically. (Didn't check them all, but I also had Morrow vs Ace, and Morrow on +7). Would like some clarification.
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The matches are being shown tonight (Tuesday). So most likely all the matches were recorded on Monday. It's too late to fix any seeding error now.
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I feel that there are alot of hypocrisy from the side of NASL. I've repeatedly heard them saying that they want as many top European players as possible playing in NASL.The whole league obviously needs Euro and Korea pros to play in the league because without them the league would be pretty uninteresting if we're going to be completely honest here. Despite this they make no effort in accommodating the European and Korean players. And this is worst for Euro players because of the bnet server being located at the west coast on the NA side. Euro players have, by far, the worst playing conditions in NASL and the leadership behind NASL doesn't seem to care.
I really question the professionally of the people behind NASL if we don't see big changes for season 2.
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+ Show Spoiler +
Wait, so did the NASL actually make a mistake there? Or is there a mistake in the reported results?
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On June 14 2011 15:43 adeezy wrote:
YOu know, if making it casted live is such a big deal and all that that it causes players like naniwa to not want to play in the league, then i'd rather it casted from replays so it's done by player convenience. If it's just regular season matches I don't see the big deal. It will only help the league.
Same. I don't see Blizzard fixing Battle.net anytime soon, so casting from replays seems to be the best option.
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On June 15 2011 02:06 Jinsho wrote:
Wait, so did the NASL actually make a mistake there? Or is there a mistake in the reported results?
This is just a systemic problem with NASL. There's no one in charge, no one that cares about the quality. The standings on the NASL website have been incorrect since week one. It's been pointed out here on the forums and in private emails/PMs. NASL ignored all this. Now the players have likely played the wrong matchups.
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On June 15 2011 03:39 Hammurabio wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 02:06 Jinsho wrote:
Wait, so did the NASL actually make a mistake there? Or is there a mistake in the reported results? This is just a systemic problem with NASL. There's no one in charge, no one that cares about the quality. The standings on the NASL website have been incorrect since week one. It's been pointed out here on the forums and in private emails/PMs. NASL ignored all this. Now the players have likely played the wrong matchups.
If this is true, then nevermind the nonexistent calendar entries, this is so bad.
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On June 15 2011 04:19 Jinsho wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 03:39 Hammurabio wrote:On June 15 2011 02:06 Jinsho wrote:
Wait, so did the NASL actually make a mistake there? Or is there a mistake in the reported results? This is just a systemic problem with NASL. There's no one in charge, no one that cares about the quality. The standings on the NASL website have been incorrect since week one. It's been pointed out here on the forums and in private emails/PMs. NASL ignored all this. Now the players have likely played the wrong matchups. If this is true, then nevermind the nonexistent calendar entries, this is so bad.
Incorrect, actually.
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There are a few issues:
(1) several players voluntarily chose to not play their tiebreak games
(2) there was an update on our website that messed with results, so we did make 1-2 accounting errors, although again these errors are just for seeding and didn't have any larger impact (I.E. relegating someone)
Now, about playing conditions for Europeans...
NASL games are played at 21 CET each day. I tried to schedule everyone in as favorable of a time as possible. Sometimes it wasn't possible (I.E. a European playing in Match 5 plays at 1am or so). We had to choose a time that was good for the largest amount of people. The time period we chose is reasonable for Americans and Europeans, so we did it.
PS...
the playoff schedule will be announced after tiebreak tuesday!
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Can you give us a schedule of which games will actually occur tonight and the results of the games where someone forfeited?
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Most important question: who is casting?
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I would classify playing the wrong guy as a pretty large impact....
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On June 15 2011 04:37 IPA wrote:
Most important question: who is casting?
Moletrap + Diggity!
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On June 15 2011 04:36 DoomsVille wrote:
Can you give us a schedule of which games will actually occur tonight and the results of the games where someone forfeited?
I'm guessing everyone listed is playing tonight. However, several of the top 10 opted out of playing a tie-break such as July/Sheth/Squirtle as Boxer/Strelok in addition to Morrow/Ace in the playoffs. Could easily be more that I didn't see.
Edit: Realized Morrow/Ace not having a tiebreak invalidated my statement that all payoff tiebreaks were being played so removed that part.
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On June 15 2011 04:58 Talkerst wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 04:36 DoomsVille wrote:
Can you give us a schedule of which games will actually occur tonight and the results of the games where someone forfeited? I'm guessing everyone listed is playing tonight. However, several of the top 10 opted out of playing a tie-break such as July/Sheth/Squirtle and Sen/SeleCT. May be others I haven't seen though it looks like all the playoff tiebreaks are going through.
Oh that makes a ton of sense. Thanks.
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Why not roundrobin to resolve the 4-way tie? OSL-style. It is not prohibitively more games and according to game theory it would lead to the optimal result.
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On June 15 2011 03:39 Hammurabio wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 02:06 Jinsho wrote:
Wait, so did the NASL actually make a mistake there? Or is there a mistake in the reported results? This is just a systemic problem with NASL. There's no one in charge, no one that cares about the quality. The standings on the NASL website have been incorrect since week one. It's been pointed out here on the forums and in private emails/PMs. NASL ignored all this. Now the players have likely played the wrong matchups.
I'd say the thought of 'no one cares about the quality' is completely bogus. Clearly they think about the quality as they setup the league, many of which did it because this is their passion. Now, whether or not they act intelligently, make the right decisions, or are organized is another story, but I think its pretty clear people care.
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On June 15 2011 05:06 PuercoPop wrote:
Why not roundrobin to resolve the 4-way tie? OSL-style. It is not prohibitively more games and according to game theory it would lead to the optimal result.
Wouldn't it be possible to still have a tie with a round robin? Not sure about the OSL rules for it. Since they have to pre-schedule everyone's time I think anything that risks a further tie would be a non-starter.
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On June 15 2011 05:17 Talkerst wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 05:06 PuercoPop wrote:
Why not roundrobin to resolve the 4-way tie? OSL-style. It is not prohibitively more games and according to game theory it would lead to the optimal result. Wouldn't it be possible to still have a tie with a round robin? Not sure about the OSL rules for it. Since they have to pre-schedule everyone's time I think anything that risks a further tie would be a non-starter.
They can always go by DH rules... After 3rd tie break coin-toss ^^
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(2) there was an update on our website that messed with results, so we did make 1-2 accounting errors, although again these errors are just for seeding and didn't have any larger impact (I.E. relegating someone)
Can you clarify? Because if incorrect seeding results in players playing the wrong opponents I'd say that has a pretty large impact.
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On June 15 2011 05:37 Duravi wrote:Show nested quote +(2) there was an update on our website that messed with results, so we did make 1-2 accounting errors, although again these errors are just for seeding and didn't have any larger impact (I.E. relegating someone) Can you clarify? Because if incorrect seeding results in players playing the wrong opponents I'd say that has a pretty large impact.
The good folks at liquidpedia and others (I'm guessing motbob as well if not lumped in with them) have been keeping track independently of NASL's recording. According to those groups the people playing for seeds are all lined up correctly. Also, while the NASL site still has errors in its standings for Brat_OK and Strelok it looks like they were internally corrected since Socke and Brat_OK are doing a tiebreak against each other.
The ones I know of that had errors before but have been corrected now were either taken into consideration when creating the brackets or did not effect them as everything announced lines up with the correct (liquidpedia) numbers.
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On June 15 2011 05:37 Duravi wrote:Show nested quote +(2) there was an update on our website that messed with results, so we did make 1-2 accounting errors, although again these errors are just for seeding and didn't have any larger impact (I.E. relegating someone) Can you clarify? Because if incorrect seeding results in players playing the wrong opponents I'd say that has a pretty large impact.
We fixed all the errors and the standings we have are all correct. The problem is that some of the standings on the website were displayed incorrectly. Hope this answers any concerns.
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On June 15 2011 05:58 Talkerst wrote:
The ones I know of that had errors before but have been corrected now were either taken into consideration when creating the brackets or did not effect them as everything announced lines up with the correct (liquidpedia) numbers.
That's true for the tiebreaks. But there could be more seeding errors for the Qualifier tournament. NASL has MC at 6-3 in 10th place. In reality, MC is 6-2 and should be the 5th seed. We have no idea if NASL has screwed up MC's seeding (or other players seeding).
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On June 15 2011 06:13 Hammurabio wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 05:58 Talkerst wrote:
The ones I know of that had errors before but have been corrected now were either taken into consideration when creating the brackets or did not effect them as everything announced lines up with the correct (liquidpedia) numbers. That's true for the tiebreaks. But there could be more seeding errors for the Qualifier tournament. NASL has MC at 6-3 in 10th place. In reality, MC is 6-2 and should be the 5th seed. We have no idea if NASL has screwed up MC's seeding (or other players seeding).
We didn't : ) !
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Edit: found answer in another thread
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
Is there a general feedback thread for the NASL anymore? Cause I feel like an in depth criticism (sorry) of the current format is needed.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
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this was such a joke. Should have just coinflipped. Forge FFE pvp? 6 pools by idra? *sigh*
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EPT
