EPTOtherwise there would always be players which get an easier path due to the random selection.
Super Tournament good or bad? *possible spoilers* - Page 2
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lololol
5198 Posts
Otherwise there would always be players which get an easier path due to the random selection. | ||
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Elurie
4716 Posts
The only thing that felt unfair is how the brackets ended up.... Alicia/MC in Ro64 and Bomber/Nestea in Ro32; while some players (past prime [TheBest] or not [MKP]) "lucked" into Ro8 on their easier brackets. I didn't study the brackets to see if it's completely random or arranged based on ranks or other statistics. I also have no idea if players knew about their deadline to qualify for this Super Tournament, of if this tourney was sprung on them (and us) in May. But if they are really going to make a Super Tournament where anyone regardless of rank has a chance to compete against top dogs, then I'm definitely in favor of open qualifications. Nothing based on previous GSL achievement 10 years ago or whatnot. There's really no way of making it 100% fair though. Like Fionn said, there is always going to be that one guy who cheeses/all-ins/lucks into a top eight or even semifinals. | ||
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FarbrorAbavna
Sweden4856 Posts
The attitude that some players are more deserving coz of some percieved difference in skill and thus should get to code s quicker, and hence the super tournament is more a hindrance, is imho silly. They could put the super tournament att he end of the year but you would still have this opininon carried by people and a post like this done because of some player/players still left in that shouldnt deserve the shot at making big money. Sure there are some players in here whom we havent heard of since s2 or s1 even but they went out fast and the one who didnt had actually improved to such an extent that he deserved to move on(or I'm thinking of another tournament all together, hopefully I'm not  ). So that's basically down to opinion if it's too early to have this tournament or not.1. The player advancing today that sort of didnt deserve it(if you so wanna put it) he still played better in the end. His opponent made a misstake or two which cost him the game. It's as simple as that. I wanted him to win but seeing how he played I actually didnt think he deserved it. In the end he didnt have what it takes to be the champion. If someone wanna argue that the advancing opponent didnt either well then that's a whole different problem isnt it? 2. If leenock were to win the super tournament but didnt qualify for code a next season then that is more telling of his opponent and the raise in skill. nothing strange about it, the game progresses over time. Leenock wouldnt have had two chances to qualify either since the super tournament isnt replacing a code a/s season and personally I wouldnt want one either, there are plenty of them and having the super tournament feels fresh(great players in code a that actually gets to play someone in code s). Regarding having players in Code S whom you dont think deserves it they performed when it mattered(up n down) and if you watched those games objectively they played better than their opponents(maybe not by much though). Though that might be generalizing, it's more or less true for each and everyone currently in code s. 3. Here I'll be addressing each paragraph. 3.1 The amount of code a/s seasons per year is fixed and as such dongraegu wouldnt have gotten in earlier. If not the super tournament then something else would be taking up this slot. Of course you could be of the opinion that we should have more seasons of code a/s but that's not what the discussion is about. 3.2 If a code A/B player beats someone in Code S then that is more telling of the player in the lower league and just how good he/she is. If the player in Code S is bad then we would already be aware of it and not something that would change our perception of the current state of code s. 3.3 If my favorite player would win I'd be all "fuck yeah, he won!! good times" not think that he should have gone through code s first. That's really arbitrary and has nothing to do with it since the super tournament is all about players skill getting them money not about what divisions they are placed in and hence what they "deserve" to win. 3.4 Seeing how the GSL goes on and on you would have the super tournament suspended indefinitely. Having it now or in 6 months sure it would give you less of these player we havent heard of in a looong time but in the end that's still very much about opinion than fact and whom deserves to be in it and who doesnt(again with the player from a long time ago having improved). Besides, wouldnt a super tournament and then a Finals tournament directly after be sort of repetitive?  3.5 And this is what it basically boils down to, you think the money could be better spent on the regular seasons and the GSL Super Tournament in its current state(the players with their points) maybe doesnt give us something that quite lives up to its name. Again, it's opinion and I disagree because overall we have been given good or great games(with some exceptions) with no one player having made it this far(ro16) without actually deserving it based on how they have performed(and todays game if anything proves that neither player deserved to go through, but that's not how it works). Edit: wall of text, sorry about that. Also just wanna say I'm not angry or anything if I manage to come across that way. | ||
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ronpaul012
United States769 Posts
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Teim
Australia373 Posts
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OopsOopsBaby
Singapore3425 Posts
On June 08 2011 22:13 Kafkaesk wrote: I acutally never got what the "L" in GSL is about. There were never a real league, only tournaments. I'd really like to see a real league, preferably with teams, but single players would be nice too. You could see much more diffrent players facing another, playing way more games than a single Bo3/5/7 hell even a Bo1 in the early stages of GSL. may i acquaint you with OSL and MSL? | ||
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Arceus
Vietnam8333 Posts
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pusmoh
Germany75 Posts
Doing it after only 3 Code A/Code S seasons made it so that players who got to code S in jan and then fell out of the league asap still got in. IIrc the original plan was to hold it in september, I wonder why that was changed. EDIT: Ah nvm, got confused with WC which was originally to be held in september. | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
My favorite GOM products so far, in order: 1) GSL world championships 2) GSTL 3) Up and Down matches 4) Code S 5) Super tournament I wish there was more racial balance in this super tournament, but you cant really control that and how do you even force fix racial distribution in certain tournaments when North American terrans are literally terrible and Korean terrans are unbelievably awesome.... What do you do? | ||
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awu25
United States2003 Posts
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Cyanocyst
2222 Posts
On June 08 2011 22:26 Zombie_Velociraptor wrote: I feel like this tournament could use a different format. Perhaps some group play offs at the start, or something? It's very possible for better players to get knocked out in Bo3's, also random luck with brackets may well mean not so good players advancing, which leads to some very boring games. I suppose after a while this kind of a tournament would work even with current rules (once some certain people aren't able to get an invite into it...), but I don't know. What? Its very possible for better players to get knocked out in best of 3's and you think Group play is the solution? I feel that Group play provides much more randomness (unless you make each series between players Best of 3's rather than Bo1's) And to back up my point, i refer you to GSL March. most of the Better players didn't come out of group stages. | ||
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sushiman
Sweden2691 Posts
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Fubi
2228 Posts
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Deathberry
United States10 Posts
On June 08 2011 22:01 pdd wrote: I ask this because we saw a lot of Code B players making it to the Ro16 and I really feel that this is sort of detrimental to the whole GSL concept as it delays the progression of better players and rewards players who only managed to get where they are from achievements achieved in 2010, when the game was still very unrefined. What does a player in Code B making it to Ro16 have to do delaying progression of better players? Should GSL wipe out everything that happened in 2010? At what point was there adequate skill involved in GSL? I would admit some genuinely good Code A/B players who are extremely unlucky to miss out on Code S have had their impressive moments and this actually is a really good opportunity for them to earn some big $$$, but I kind of feel that this tournament has actually been rewarding lesser skilled/past their prime players more than genuinely good up and comers in 3 ways: 1. Chance of less skilled players advancing As we saw with a certain player today and a close miss with another, while the game is a lot less volatile, players are still quite likely to get in through cheese/one-base allins. Yes it's still more likely that the better player wins, and a cheese win is a win, but it's just really strange seeing that one guy who just advanced be there. How is cheese/one-base play exclusive to this tournament? How is this specific tournament rewarding these so called "inferior" players. It just sounds like your upset that someone you didn't like advanced as far as they did. 2. Delays the natural progression of competition skill level Think about it, if say Leenock wins the Super Tournament and can't qualify for the next Code A (the qualifications are EXTREMELY tough) for some reason... wouldn't that be strange? If the tournament was replaced with another Code S/A season, we would see him actually have TWO chances to qualify, which is better than just one later. How is this strange at all? This tournament was designed around having a bigger prize pool and a wider range of participants as it's selling point. So far Code S/A seasons are every other month. The last Code S/A was in May so there's no guarantee that there even would be another on in June. Meanwhile, players like Ensnare, HongUn and Trickster, who haven't impressed lately are still in Code S. What? This has nothing to do with what you just said but fuck it, just throw it out there. In fact, that entire paragraph is a clusterfuckmess. (Funny side-note: Leenock is one of those players this Super Tournament is "unfairly rewarding". Most of his success game from the 2nd GSL Open Season and since then he's slipped from Code S to Code A to finally Code B.) 3. Deserving non-Code A/S up and comers miss out a lot Code B players who are beastly like DongRaeGu, etc miss out on one additional chance to qualify for Code A. Isn't this the same point you were trying to make two sentences ago???? When I first heard about the Super Tournament when it was first announced, I was not really agreeing with it (back when it was still 32 Code A + 32 Code S players). It just doesn't make sense for a Code A/B player to beat a Code S player and it sort of ruins the credibility of the Code S as the premier SC2 league. HUH??? If the Super Tournament is ruining the credibility of Code S then wouldn't the Up and Down portion of Code S/A tournaments must be straight up skull-fucking it. Do note that my favourite player is MMA and it's great that he has a chance of winning this tournament. But I feel it's better for him to prove himself by advancing to Code S rather than winning the Super Tournament (although it has a bigger prize pool). To advance to Code S, MMA would have to beat a Code S player. A Code A player beating a Code S player would ruin the league's credibility. How is MMA suppose to prove himself in a league with no credibility??!!? --rest of post-- What do you guys think? Hopefully the GOM guys will take the feedback from this thread into consideration for next season. I think you should consider organizing your thoughts before vomiting them out in thread. I really wanted to say more in response to your post but my brain just wasn't able to process anything you've typed out. I hope the GOM guys don't read your post unless they want to get mindfucked in a bad way. | ||
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