EPTRace Win Rates Update: May - Page 16
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greycubed
United States615 Posts
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mage36
415 Posts
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Zealot Lord
Hong Kong747 Posts
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
But thanks to the OP for doing this research! | ||
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
To be honest though I think I can live with this level of balance. This is more even than it had been in several different time periods of brood war's history and we're barely past release. I think blizz has done a pretty damn fine job (except PvP 4-gate) | ||
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darthfoley
United States8003 Posts
On June 08 2011 08:59 greycubed wrote: Poor Artosis. haha, golden :D | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
Thanks for the graph though. | ||
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cheesemaster
Canada1975 Posts
On June 07 2011 23:24 aurum510 wrote: How can IdrA cry about ZvP... It's the most imbalanced matchup and it's in favor of Zerg... Because no matter what race he plays he will cry about balance, if he was playing protoss instead of zerg right now, he would defenetly be complaining about zergs being OP vs protoss right now. The zerg complaints in the LR threads are still rampant, its kind of ridiculous looking at statistics over the past few months , its like you guys are doing better than us in the matchup why are you stil complaining STFU. From personal experience even though im only diamond, zvp was my best matchup back when all zergs tried to do was roach hydra corrupter around 3 months ago, it is now definitely my worst matchup by a long shot, i have no idea how to beat zergs, i think i need to go back to trying to kill them early because i stand absolutely no chance in the late game against zerg. | ||
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Szubie
United Kingdom294 Posts
On June 08 2011 08:59 greycubed wrote: Poor Artosis. Rofl, so good. | ||
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Daniel C
Hong Kong1606 Posts
On June 07 2011 23:22 Ctuchik wrote: Oh, are those the generally accepted colors? I was actually thinking quite a bit about this before settling on the ones I have now. It's incredibly easy to change though. I can also very easily bring up International and Korean numbers only, but it's not as useful as some of you may think. The sample size of the Korean games is small enough that you can't really draw any conclusions from them, and international numbers are basically unchanged if you remove Koreans. I also have a stupid request, would you consider making the red/green darker or lighter, respectively (or vice versa), to help those who are red-green colourblind? XD | ||
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cheesemaster
Canada1975 Posts
On June 08 2011 06:38 fiskensfarfar wrote: It would be nice if you could do some separation of the data, like graphs for only tours or only pros. It seems that people are missing the point that league games cannot be used to discuss balance. For example: Suppose ZvP is indeed imbalanced in favor of toss. Then overall it is harder for a Z player to harvest points compared to P players, and the Z player, at whatever level he is, will be matched against P players that are lesser gamers. So it is clear that imbalances will not show up in the winrates due to the design of the ladder matchmaking. Regarding the actual balance I think its pretty obvious that P is by far the easiest race to play (Not at a high competitive level!!), which makes the matchup imba in any game below grand masters and perhaps top masters. For me it seems that P just require less apm than T and Z. This is why many zerg players whine. Many Z players, myself included, often felt like losing to a lesser gamer when losing a z v p. But it rarely feels like this when losing a z v z or z v t. I had this feeling until I reached top masters. Alot of people are under the assumption that these statistics arent just from pro tours but they are, the OP just didnt state it i dont think because he had it all explained in the one he did for last month. The statistics are from all pro tournaments taken from The TLDP including korean and north american for this one for those who didnt know. So to restate, these are only pro statistics this is not ladder statistics it is taken from The TLDP and it includes all major tournaments (plus some smaller ones i beleive) in korea and NA/EU So really this poster's whole argument is null and void, and i actually looked at the OP and he states that it is taken only from pro tours (MLG DREAMHACK etc + some smaller ones im sure) and league games (such as GSL, IPL, NASL) when he says league games he doesnt mean ladder games maybe thats why some people are confused. To me it just sounds like another zerg trying to dismiss the statistics so he can still argue that his race is underpowered lol | ||
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Raid
United States398 Posts
On June 08 2011 09:18 Drowsy wrote: Terran wins at high rates and people complain a bit. Protoss wins at marginally higher rates than expected and there is uproar and amulet gets nerfed. What will be the community's reaction when zerg pulls ahead of terran? To be honest though I think I can live with this level of balance. This is more even than it had been in several different time periods of brood war's history and we're barely past release. I think blizz has done a pretty damn fine job (except PvP 4-gate) It was a much needed nerf. If you re-watched the games back in the day before amulet nerf you will rofl at ridiculously long the games were because terran had no way to kill protoss efficiently and protoss with mass ht can't really kill buildings because what are storms gonna do to buildings? Now with archon buff it would have definitely been imba if toss just morphed archons and roflstomped after blanketing warp in storms. All I can say is at least you can still use HT, Reaper was basically removed from the game.. | ||
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cheesemaster
Canada1975 Posts
On June 08 2011 09:28 sluggaslamoo wrote: The PvZ imbalance can be fixed through maps, e.g Make the natural choke much smaller so fast expands are more viable. Unfortunately GSL keeps making maps with open naturals -_-. Thanks for the graph though. Agreed it would be so so so much eaiser to hold off roach ling aggression against 3 gate sentry expand if their was smaller chokes, im sure blizzard will realise this eventually. | ||
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Zealot Lord
Hong Kong747 Posts
On June 07 2011 23:22 Ctuchik wrote: I can also very easily bring up International and Korean numbers only, but it's not as useful as some of you may think. The sample size of the Korean games is small enough that you can't really draw any conclusions from them, and international numbers are basically unchanged if you remove Koreans. Just the Korean numbers will be fine - its true that while you can't draw concrete conclusions as the sample size is a bit too small, its still interesting to see how matchups are developing/faring at the highest levels. I personally right now think (from what I've seen) TvZ is pretty darn even at GSL, and it'd be nice to see some data reinforcing that perception. | ||
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imareaver3
United States906 Posts
On June 08 2011 09:54 cheesemaster wrote: Agreed it would be so so so much eaiser to hold off roach ling aggression against 3 gate sentry expand if their was smaller chokes, im sure blizzard will realise this eventually. Question is whether or not that would switch the balance in P's favor too much. Remember, Blizzard has access to data on every match ever played, and while they didn't nerf P very much (Recognizing that the imbalance was very slight, and wasn't even present after 1.3.0), they also consistently widened chokes even on maps with narrow ones. GSL has done the same thing. I have a feeling that this is all for a reason--perhaps the game simply isn't balanced on maps with narrow naturals. | ||
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IzieBoy
United States865 Posts
i also wonder how HuK is losing... i seriously saw a game he played that looked perfect to me and he still lost. | ||
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IzieBoy
United States865 Posts
eh how is this funny? | ||
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sAfuRos
United States743 Posts
Artosis swapped to toss right when MC was doing really well, because he thought zerg was UP Now Toss isthe most UP and yep | ||
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Geniuszerg
Canada454 Posts
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IzieBoy
United States865 Posts
On June 08 2011 10:46 sAfuRos wrote: Artosis swapped to toss right when MC was doing really well, because he thought zerg was UP Now Toss isthe most UP and yep cool thanks... lol yea Toss is UP late game by far as soon as their mass collosi get countered | ||
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