On June 06 2011 13:23 RM_12 wrote: Why aren't top Protoss players using Phenix's PvT?
I recently played PvT when i was behind after his fast expo but i was able to keep colosus alive forever because of phenix in my unit mix, and he couldn't win any engagement, eventually loosing while 1 base up over me ^^. You usually go zealot-sentry-stalker-colosus and tech to templar but if you add 1 stargate and keep making phenix you suddenly win every engagement.
You can kill vikings without suiciding your stalkers to marauder ball, and kill medivacs. Also phenixes attacking vikings allow you to move forward with colossus to deal demage and not die in few viking shots. It's much easier to micro, and terran can't go marines (you have ever growing colossus count) and if they don't transition out of marauder ball you have the ability to add VR's and roflstomp Terran even harder.
Srsly they are not expensive and you don't even need to micro them, just a move and control ground battle with FF while your Phenixes just kill anything above the ground.
So i wonder, what is the biggest weakness of incorporating phenixes into standard chargelot-sentry-stalker-colosus that pro's don't use it?
This is your erroneous assumption, and one of the main reasons players don't incorporate phoenixes into their late-game armies.
The point is to add it in mid game, because they are great in late game composition (200/200) and they allow you to retain your colossus much much easier.
if the terran reacts well enough with 2 starport reactors then all they have to do is take out the colossus quickly before the vikings go down, emp the pheonixes, then they become useless
so basically they'll have marauders left over vs. your phoenixes with no energy
You don;t need energy on phenixes, you have them to only kill vikings and medivacs while making your other units survive ALOT longer (unless you are against tanks, then you need to dodge emp's which with phenix speed is easier than with any other unit)
On June 06 2011 13:23 RM_12 wrote: Why aren't top Protoss players using Phenix's PvT?
I recently played PvT when i was behind after his fast expo but i was able to keep colosus alive forever because of phenix in my unit mix, and he couldn't win any engagement, eventually loosing while 1 base up over me ^^. You usually go zealot-sentry-stalker-colosus and tech to templar but if you add 1 stargate and keep making phenix you suddenly win every engagement.
You can kill vikings without suiciding your stalkers to marauder ball, and kill medivacs. Also phenixes attacking vikings allow you to move forward with colossus to deal demage and not die in few viking shots. It's much easier to micro, and terran can't go marines (you have ever growing colossus count) and if they don't transition out of marauder ball you have the ability to add VR's and roflstomp Terran even harder.
Srsly they are not expensive and you don't even need to micro them, just a move and control ground battle with FF while your Phenixes just kill anything above the ground.
So i wonder, what is the biggest weakness of incorporating phenixes into standard chargelot-sentry-stalker-colosus that pro's don't use it?
This is your erroneous assumption, and one of the main reasons players don't incorporate phoenixes into their late-game armies.
The point is to add it in mid game, because they are great in late game composition (200/200) and they allow you to retain your colossus much much easier.
if the terran reacts well enough with 2 starport reactors then all they have to do is take out the colossus quickly before the vikings go down, emp the pheonixes, then they become useless
so basically they'll have marauders left over vs. your phoenixes with no energy
You don;t need energy on phenixes, you have them to only kill vikings and medivacs while making your other units survive ALOT longer (unless you are against tanks, then you need to dodge emp's which with phenix speed is easier than with any other unit)
What happens if the terran does a timing attack with pure bio in the midgame or goes pure bio + ghost in the late game? You won't have the gateway units or the colossi count to deal with it since all your gas will be eaten up in your phoenixes. Phoenix-Colossus compositions work best on maps where you can turtle in your natural and third (e.g. Terminus, Tal'Darim Altar, Scrap Station, etc.) and in situations where you force vikings (colossi before stargate, which is the opposite of your plan).
The issues are how to incorporate phoenixes into your overall gameplan and setting up your opponent to make that viking-heavy army.
On June 06 2011 13:23 RM_12 wrote: Why aren't top Protoss players using Phenix's PvT?
I recently played PvT when i was behind after his fast expo but i was able to keep colosus alive forever because of phenix in my unit mix, and he couldn't win any engagement, eventually loosing while 1 base up over me ^^. You usually go zealot-sentry-stalker-colosus and tech to templar but if you add 1 stargate and keep making phenix you suddenly win every engagement.
You can kill vikings without suiciding your stalkers to marauder ball, and kill medivacs. Also phenixes attacking vikings allow you to move forward with colossus to deal demage and not die in few viking shots. It's much easier to micro, and terran can't go marines (you have ever growing colossus count) and if they don't transition out of marauder ball you have the ability to add VR's and roflstomp Terran even harder.
Srsly they are not expensive and you don't even need to micro them, just a move and control ground battle with FF while your Phenixes just kill anything above the ground.
So i wonder, what is the biggest weakness of incorporating phenixes into standard chargelot-sentry-stalker-colosus that pro's don't use it?
This is your erroneous assumption, and one of the main reasons players don't incorporate phoenixes into their late-game armies.
The point is to add it in mid game, because they are great in late game composition (200/200) and they allow you to retain your colossus much much easier.
if the terran reacts well enough with 2 starport reactors then all they have to do is take out the colossus quickly before the vikings go down, emp the pheonixes, then they become useless
so basically they'll have marauders left over vs. your phoenixes with no energy
You don;t need energy on phenixes, you have them to only kill vikings and medivacs while making your other units survive ALOT longer (unless you are against tanks, then you need to dodge emp's which with phenix speed is easier than with any other unit)
What happens if the terran does a timing attack with pure bio in the midgame or goes pure bio + ghost in the late game? You won't have the gateway units or the colossi count to deal with it since all your gas will be eaten up in your phoenixes. Phoenix-Colossus compositions work best on maps where you can turtle in your natural and third (e.g. Terminus, Tal'Darim Altar, Scrap Station, etc.) and in situations where you force vikings (colossi before stargate, which is the opposite of your plan).
The issues are how to incorporate phoenixes into your overall gameplan and setting up your opponent to make that viking-heavy army.
(colossi before stargate, which is the opposite of your plan
You misunderstood.
If you see no starport with observer, you won't add stargate. I'm talking about adding phenixes when you already have few colossi. They have short producton time and are not expensive for how usefull they become. If you open with robo and start colossus production relatively early, terran have to go for some timing or add vikings. If he goes for timing, you have units countering his units, if he adds starports and goes for late game you add stargate and gain upper hand in engagements, because it works out extremly well. I encourage everyone to try it and see how you can move forward with entire army without exposing your colossus nor stalkers.
When terran dodges colossi with marauder ball and moves vikings forward you have to move colossi back and get stalkers in range of vikings to snipe them leaving your stalkers in range of marauders while they are out of colossi range. When you add phenixes you can suddenly a-move and still beat this terran composition. It made HUGE difference for me in this MU, that's why i'm suprised it's not commonly used.
It seems to me that you're getting a little of everything and you'll be stretched too thin on sentries or stalkers. Too few of either and terran can just ignore your phoenix and rush forward, snipe the collo and then you'll be in quite a bit of trouble.
On June 07 2011 09:14 Probe1 wrote: It seems to me that you're getting a little of everything and you'll be stretched too thin on sentries or stalkers. Too few of either and terran can just ignore your phoenix and rush forward, snipe the collo and then you'll be in quite a bit of trouble.
You will have less stalkers, and phenixes do theid job in this composition, except they don't evaporate to marauders. Just try it bro
Does anyone feel that Protoss seems quite weak since the last patch?
I know our lategame compositions should still be as strong as ever, but it feels as if with the warpgate research nerf that our warpgate timing attacks are weaker and hence not so scary, that Terrans and Zergs can afford to be much greedier and always end up ahead significantly or else if we try to be greedy, due to delayed warpgate, it is too easy for them to punish and we end up behind or dead anyway.
It could just be what I am feeling because I haven't been able to play so much and am in a bit of a slump, but it seems like I have been seeing similar things in tournaments. Such as the super tournament, there is only one protoss in the round of 16.
On June 06 2011 19:40 bull0563 wrote: Is this month marking the start of the inevitable korean dominance in sc2?
Wait for Dreamhack. I think we'll really get to see there.
So far we've had Korea Vs World where I believe the world team performed very well. Now we've had Koreans at MLG where for the most part they dominated, but those weren't the best players the "world/foreigners" have to offer. At Dreamhack there will be different players compared to MLG, if the Koreans still dominate, they are in fact better, but we'll just have to wait and see.
Now for some biased stuff: White Ra beast from the east Korean eater.
EPT
