EPTDynamic Unit Movements, Your Thoughts? - Page 28
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
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starmeat_
105 Posts
and why can't people learn to do this manually. create several hotkeys for your units and spread them out accordingly. if you find it difficult, then practice. besides, this would be game breaking. no need for me to go into what will break, since this includes nearly everything. please people, learn to play starcraft 2, this game isn't BW, and the whole skillset from BW does not carry over to SC2. let me make this clear, SC2 is a different game. | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On June 15 2011 03:13 figq wrote: Could you elaborate? I only get that you think this analogy is bad, not why. I'm not the one you quoted but your analogy is based on some weird RL chess game you invented on the spot. Using a analogy is usually best to compare solid known things, not a invented game where no one knows the rules or what it is really. | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On June 15 2011 03:14 Existor wrote: With this dynamic movement baneling and tank splash must be increased Hellion splash need to be both longer and broader, will look weird as hell. If the OP screenshots are what they want tank splash needs to be alot bigger. Roaches/Immortals will have a really hard time as their range is so low. Lots and lots of stuff will be broken. I'd rather see that they just increase the area between units a tiny bit. It doesn't need to be as huge as in the OP screenshots in my opinion. | ||
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
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Severian
Australia2052 Posts
On June 15 2011 03:15 starmeat_ wrote: spreading your units out adequately requires skill. having the game do that for me, errrrr no thanks. and why can't people learn to do this manually. create several hotkeys for your units and spread them out accordingly. if you find it difficult, then practice. besides, this would be game breaking. no need for me to go into what will break, since this includes nearly everything. I'm fine with spreading my units out but it's almost entirely negated as soon as I actually move my army. I wouldn't complain if there was less of a tendency for units to clump up when moved. | ||
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Ulfsark
United States958 Posts
It also would help with strategies, like how your army was positioned, it would be easier to keep zealots in front, also Colossus would be less powerful since your units would be spread out even more. This would be a great change however it seems unlikely. | ||
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
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Aggnog
Bulgaria77 Posts
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skipdog172
United States331 Posts
On June 15 2011 00:54 DerNebel wrote: I hate unit clumping like the plague. I believe that bad movement control should be punished, regardless of skill, and not just be something that comes in to play just a bit in super high-level play. And to everyone talking about the micro recquired to beat the blob at the highest echelons of play, the same people hating on "fighting the AI", isn't that just fighting the SC2 AI? Why should the simple act of killing a supply depot at the ramp, or killing marines spawning out of a barracks during a 6pool, something anyone can do in SC2 with a simple right-click or attack-move, be equally effective for everyone? Shouldn't there be a difference in unit control skill between a bronze and a platinum player, such as the muta control of a C+ player in BW compared to a D-level one? Your assertion that there is no unit control skill difference between players is ridiculous. Games are regularly decided by "unit control showdowns" from bronze to grandmasters. Not all games are decided by unit control showdowns, but many many do, and that is what is important. Many games are decided by overall macro, unit composition, in-game decisions and build choices. Your idea that it should be difficult for bronze players to perform the simple act of killing a supply depot is ludicrous. There is no reason to make simple acts like that more challenging. Unit control showdowns determine enough games and there are absolutely regular, noticeable differences between the unit control skills of players at all levels. I just can't agree with you that from a spectators point of view, the ideas suggested in the OP would make the viewing experience any better. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 15 2011 03:21 Severian wrote: I'm fine with spreading my units out but it's almost entirely negated as soon as I actually move my army. I wouldn't complain if there was less of a tendency for units to clump up when moved. Exactly, they clump over very short distances. It would be nice if the armies were more reliable during these little ajustments. Constantly having to ajust them after every little move just leads to really sloppy battles. I don't agree with the OP, however. People should be required to control an manage their armies. But tiny ajustments should cause your army to become a giant ball. | ||
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Aggnog
Bulgaria77 Posts
According to this blizzard is strongly opposed to even thinking of adjusting this part of the game and clumping is apparently a good thing. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45167 Posts
I know I certainly wouldn't make high templar anymore, and even infestors (as strong as they are now) would become pretty laughable. Banelings and tanks would be useless, etc. I think spreading units out is something a person should control during army battles, not something that should automatically be done by the AI, simply because there are spells that take advantage of whether armies are split or tightly clustered. Plus, I also feel like the different natural speeds of the different units would interfere with the new programming of this auto-spread o.O | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
On June 15 2011 03:16 karpo wrote: Alright, let's consider (say) soccer vs chess strategy-wise. I didn't specify a team game, because any one works for the example: volleyball, basketball, hockey, baseball etc.I'm not the one you quoted but your analogy is based on some weird RL chess game you invented on the spot. Using a analogy is usually best to compare solid known things, not a invented game where no one knows the rules or what it is really. On June 15 2011 03:37 karpo wrote: That's fine, I already agreed, and tried to clarify.You said "chess played with real people fighting on a free battlefield". That's not volleyball, basketball, hockey or baseball. That's a made up thing that no one's ever seen and knows nothing about. | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On June 15 2011 03:31 Aggnog wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlyCFm_hnpQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=631s According to this blizzard is strongly opposed to even thinking of adjusting this part of the game and clumping is apparently a good thing. They say clumping is the side effect of better pathing. They also say they are trying to sort the ball thing out with increasing radius of units and stuff. I think that's the best thing, not huge like in OP but a small increase just enough so we don't have marine+marauder in a dark+player color ball. | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On June 15 2011 03:34 figq wrote: Alright, let's consider (say) soccer vs chess strategy-wise. I didn't specify a team game, because any one works for the example: volleyball, basketball, hockey, baseball etc. You said "chess played with real people fighting on a free battlefield". That's not volleyball, basketball, hockey or baseball. That's a made up thing that no one's ever seen and knows nothing about. | ||
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nemukud
Romania42 Posts
I, and many more, addressed most of the pros and cons regarding this, but in longer posts (like here). If you don't have the time to fully read and understand the OP, don't waste yours and everyone's else time by writing useless posts that have nothing to do with what OP is talking about. | ||
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
On June 15 2011 03:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: It looks aesthetically pleasing, but wouldn't it actually be detrimental to the game if all AoE spells become essentially nullified due to a change like this? I know I certainly wouldn't make high templar anymore, and even infestors (as strong as they are now) would become pretty laughable. Banelings and tanks would be useless, etc. I think spreading units out is something a person should control during army battles, not something that should automatically be done by the AI, simply because there are spells that take advantage of whether armies are split or tightly clustered. Plus, I also feel like the different natural speeds of the different units would interfere with the new programming of this auto-spread o.O Tanks had to be nerfed into the ground due to unit clumping. They could be returned to their former glory. Banelings would also have dynamic pathing, reducing their likelihood to get utterly owned by a small group of spread tanks as they move forward and clump together (since they'll no longer clump), so there are both benefits and detriments to that one. As for AoE units, it just means you'll need more than one specialist to cover an opponent's army. I'd like to note that there has been a lot of complaints regarding EMP/Fungal/Storm as being "OP" if used correctly, and I'll take a wager it's because armies tend to clump when they move, consequently increasing the effectiveness of a single AoE ability significantly. Finally, regarding "control during army battles", right now if you even think about moving your army after splitting it, they all clump up again naturally. If you spend all your time constantly splitting your army during an engagement, those units are not fighting -- they're walking around. Basically, you have to pre-split and hope you don't have to move around too much, or have chunks of your army not contributing to DPS as they get repositioned mid-battle. Either way, it's bad. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
spreading your units out adequately requires skill. having the game do that for me, errrrr no thanks. and why can't people learn to do this manually. create several hotkeys for your units and spread them out accordingly. if you find it difficult, then practice. By implementing this change, it would mean that splash would also be increased. Therefore, it would still be beneficial to split up your units even more manually. | ||
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