EPTI would like to phrase it like this:
IF blizzard fixes stuff, Great thats awesome. Whoppeee.
But if not, than we just go as usual. We cannont wait for big brother to do the work for us, we need to do it ourselves.
[Show] Inside The Game - Official Thread - Page 294
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dnld12
United States324 Posts
I would like to phrase it like this: IF blizzard fixes stuff, Great thats awesome. Whoppeee. But if not, than we just go as usual. We cannont wait for big brother to do the work for us, we need to do it ourselves. | ||
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1handsomE
United States199 Posts
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Kambing
United States1176 Posts
On October 24 2012 11:37 mango_destroyer wrote: god bless you sir! watching it now! That's not the right link. I dun goofed. http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/336653494 That's it. (To my credit, they mislabeled the VODs >_<.) | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
On October 24 2012 11:48 dnld12 wrote: I dont get thsi anymore. People are just whining about things they do not understand, or do not have any knowledge of. I think Djwheat's point of having the numbers is key in this arguement. Destiny was pulling numbers out of no where and while BOTH SIDES WERE BAD MANNERED, I believe Idra and Incontrol to have a stronger point. I would like to phrase it like this: IF blizzard fixes stuff, Great thats awesome. Whoppeee. But if not, than we just go as usual. We cannont wait for big brother to do the work for us, we need to do it ourselves. Yes! Destiny keeps saying that it is sad that people who saw bw e-sports can be content with how things are now. But it is ridiculous that no one seems to remember that Blizzard did virtually NOTHING to support Broodwar. There were some huge flaws with the game, there were essentially no fixes, upgrades or anything from Blizzard but the mentality was never that it was needed. The flaws even eventually became the strengths of the game. If Broodwar could become the pinnacle of e-sport in its day with no involvement from Blizzard at all, then surely sc2 can survive as well without being dependent on Blizzard doing this and that. | ||
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UTL_Unlimited
Korea (South)353 Posts
It's certainly true that viewership for specifically Starcraft 2 streams and tournaments are down, there's no denying that. (In my opinion) and in comparison to the powerhouse that's LoL, yes it certainly seems abysmal. Yet I feel Destiny took the much extreme side of the argument where he stated that SC2 will be simply dead. I can understand the sentiment that he wants to present the extreme side to attract more attention, but in a program like Inside the Game where there's someone LIKE Incontrol (who can become very argumentative) and DJWheat (who's not...shouty but just impassioned (is that the word?)) you can't simply present the extreme side of it. [Also I feel that DJWheat's point regarding Twitch viewership is up is presenting a wrong picture: he's showing that video game viewership is up, which is a good thing, but SC2 seems either stable/lower than that of the past two years.] One thing I just didn't enjoy in the argument was that the community must fix the problems that Blizzard could not implement. This mentality is a decade year old and it's something from the BW era, yet with BW's interface and its incredibly lucky game release timed with Korea's recession, it was something that was, in simplicity, a miracle. The interface for BW was, at the time, very friendly for the regular people. It was simple to talk with others and playing custom games was much simpler than that of the WoL interface. Yet WoL interface seems much more restricted than that of BW and it feels certainly lacking. While I certainly hope that these interfaces are something that we as a community, just as we've solved the map issues in the past, can fix, the tools that allow us to do so is restricted to the engine that blizzard has a more open access to. (Maybe even the only access to? IDK) In connection with this, I also think that the interface isn't that friendly to the casual players as it may be for other games. So while with the BW phenomenon we had the game at least watched by non-hardcore followers, I just hope that SC2 won't come down to a point where only hardcore followers like us here at Teamliquid won't be the only people around. We are also in a day and age where the game creators are taking an incredibly active part in investing e-Sports and the tournament scenes, can we really *grow*, not just maintain, the scene? I mean I'm very positive that things like MLG, Dreamhack, and NASL will still be around, but can we see the constant growth that has certainly stagnated today? I certainly hope so, but I can see why Destiny may be worried about something like this. If viewers aren't increasing but simply stable and he cannot attract more to his stream, then how can he constantly pay for everything with things outside of the game like the recession, a baby, and etc? So yes, certainly the community can fix a lot of issues as it had in the past, but I feel that it may not be enough, which may be what Destiny was referring to. I, like many others, just want the best for SC2, and that's true also for Incontrol, Idra, Destiny, Painuser, and DJWheat. Certainly they have different perspectives on how to do it, but I hope that Incontrol, Idra and Destiny won't begin to really hate each other personally. Thank you for the show~ | ||
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TrippSC2
United States209 Posts
The point that Idra and Incontrol were making seems pretty clean cut and I really didn't hear anything sound to refute it. He just kept saying "Blizzard is bad" over and over. I'm sure he was pissed off about the "go play LoL"-type response, but honestly that's the only thing of substance that he brought to the table was "Blizzard is shit, look at LoL." I didn't think the way Idra phrased his comment was out-of-line at all. Destiny was having a love fest over LoL and he said what anyone watching that was thinking (and I've been thinking for several months). Why doesn't Destiny just switch to LoL since he's more passionate about it? I hate to say it, but it really feels like all of this seems to be motivated by stream views for Destiny... I don't know about anyone else, but he doesn't entertain me like he used to and his level of play isn't top caliber, so there really isn't anything to draw me to his stream. Seeing as how he makes ALL of his money from streaming (since he doesn't have any winnings and no team sponsorship), I'm damn sure that he's looking for anything that can possibly get his name out there to generate more views for him. | ||
Fionn
United States23455 Posts
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Diglett
600 Posts
props to painuser for staying calm and collected | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
On October 24 2012 11:54 UTL_Unlimited wrote:I certainly hope so, but I can see why Destiny may be worried about something like this. If viewers aren't increasing but simply stable and he cannot attract more to his stream, then how can he constantly pay for everything with things outside of the game like the recession, a baby, and etc? So yes, certainly the community can fix a lot of issues as it had in the past, but I feel that it may not be enough, which may be what Destiny was referring to. A much easier way for Destiny to solve that problem and not be dependent on his stream alone for income would had been to NOT get fucking kicked from every team he was ever on.. | ||
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Condor Hero
United States2931 Posts
On October 24 2012 11:38 Firepaw292 wrote: I used to think Painuser was kind of annoying but now I see he's probably the smartest one. InControl and Idra are being too passive to blizzards faults and laziness which doesn't help improve the scene at all. Painuser is thinking more how can they work with Blizzard.. this episode changed my view on all of them a bit tbh. That's cuz Geoff and Idra sat through 10 years of Blizzard not giving a shit about BW like the rest of us. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 24 2012 11:58 TrippSC2 wrote: I really used to like Destiny, because he could actually make a sound, convincing argument that was well reasoned, but I haven't seen that side of him in a really long time. The point that Idra and Incontrol were making seems pretty clean cut and I really didn't hear anything sound to refute it. He just kept saying "Blizzard is bad" over and over. I'm sure he was pissed off about the "go play LoL"-type response, but honestly that's the only thing of substance that he brought to the table was "Blizzard is shit, look at LoL." I didn't think the way Idra phrased his comment was out-of-line at all. Destiny was having a love fest over LoL and he said what anyone watching that was thinking (and I've been thinking for several months). Why doesn't Destiny just switch to LoL since he's more passionate about it? I hate to say it, but it really feels like all of this seems to be motivated by stream views for Destiny... I don't know about anyone else, but he doesn't entertain me like he used to and his level of play isn't top caliber, so there really isn't anything to draw me to his stream. Seeing as how he makes ALL of his money from streaming (since he doesn't have any winnings and no team sponsorship), I'm damn sure that he's looking for anything that can possibly get his name out there to generate more views for him. That is an interesting point of view. I did not think of that. It could just be that he isn't pulling in the money he used to. | ||
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UTL_Unlimited
Korea (South)353 Posts
On October 24 2012 12:01 VanGarde wrote: A much easier way for Destiny to solve that problem and not be dependent on his stream alone for income would had been to NOT get fucking kicked from every team he was ever on.. Certainly true, but he's the kind of guy who does really not enjoy censoring himself ^.^; While I certainly agree that there is a time and place for everything and he passes that boundary on numerous occasions, that just makes him somewhat less mannered in a corporate standard instead of making him a bad person haha. | ||
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Jounas
Finland4 Posts
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Kronen
United States732 Posts
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joogai
7 Posts
User was banned for this post. | ||
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Fake)Plants
United States373 Posts
On October 24 2012 12:00 Fionn wrote: Streaming numbers are down, but are tournament numbers really down? Can anyone actually give some stats? Like, actual stats. Not, 'I seem to remember SC2 being like really big during the first few months, but now it's not...' Well with the large influx of tournaments, which is something Grubby is concerned about, I think it would be hard to get an actual number on viewership outside of major tournaments. But this is what Incontrol was talking about on the show, the people who want to watch SC2 are still watching, the numbers game will be dominated by other platforms more accessible to the casual gamer. I think the major point that was reiterated in tonight's show was that the noticeable silence that Blizzard takes is damaging the quality of SC2, which is, in their opinion, a higher quality form of competition in the first place. Without the quality people may stop tuning in, and that is a concern, perhaps not on the level that Destiny implies but still a concern. | ||
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JazzJackrabbit
Canada1272 Posts
On October 24 2012 12:00 Fionn wrote: Streaming numbers are down, but are tournament numbers really down? Can anyone actually give some stats? Like, actual stats. Not, 'I seem to remember SC2 being like really big during the first few months, but now it's not...' I don't know how much weight this holds but I remember a time not too long ago when I would go on Twitch, hit Browse, and SC2 would almost always have the most current viewers of any game. These days I would say, maybe, at least 80% of the time the top game is LoL. Again, I don't really know if it means much but it's something I've noticed over the past little while. | ||
Dustbunny
47 Posts
On October 24 2012 12:05 Jounas wrote: Watching this atm, and I am amazed how bad some people are at having a debate. My favorite is how people are declaring Destiny the winner based on the fact that he ditched with a BM and made arguments that sounded convincing...despite these same arguments being based on statistics that were made up. These are some of the same people that will be voting upcoming presidential election... And this thought scares me. | ||
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Fluid
Canada136 Posts
Idra has made 56,000$ , which is above average for a SC2 pro, but he's also been doing more ads for EG lately. He would probably win more if the koreans stopped playing, there was truth in that. | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
On October 24 2012 12:09 Fake)Plants wrote: Well with the large influx of tournaments, which is something Grubby is concerned about, I think it would be hard to get an actual number on viewership outside of major tournaments. But this is what Incontrol was talking about on the show, the people who want to watch SC2 are still watching, the numbers game will be dominated by other platforms more accessible to the casual gamer. I think the major point that was reiterated in tonight's show was that the noticeable silence that Blizzard takes is damaging the quality of SC2, which is, in their opinion, a higher quality form of competition in the first place. Without the quality people may stop tuning in, and that is a concern, perhaps not on the level that Destiny implies but still a concern. I think the tournament scene may very well be oversaturated as well, the good thing though is that this is how a market should work. It is in fact good that the tournament market is oversaturated because this will result in a chain of events where the existing tournaments need to keep improving their service to stay alive and eventually all but the best tournaments will die due to not being profitable. Overall this process might cause the appearance of an industry in trouble as a league might go under, but in reality it is just a transition where the best tournaments kill the worst ones and then take over those viewers. | ||
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