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On October 24 2012 12:28 RezJ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 12:21 Duravi wrote:On October 24 2012 12:17 RezJ wrote:
The reason Idra and Incontrol were against Destiny's post is not necessarily because they don't agree with it, but because they believe it's counter productive - which in their case might be true to some extent, because they're currently in a position of comfort.
Idra and Incontrol happen to be signed to the most sustained and wealthy team out there. What Destiny suggests essentially puts them out of the comfort zone, because it calls for people to recognize that the game is broken and that we have to say "stop right the fuck now" and tell the developers to fix it. That same game that puts food in their mouths. In their eyes, this is filling the community with negativity, and thus makes numbers fall. But in our eyes, the negativity is a product of the community's frustration with the game and Blizzard.
I think what the EG players are failing to see is that Destiny's message is effective and productive to them as well. Just because Blizzard haven't answered many of our calls up until now, doesn't mean they won't listen if there will be a hell of a lot more noise from their audience - the same noise the EG players are trying to diminish. They are, therefore, the ones who are being counter-productive.
I'm actually really disappointed by the fact that Destiny couldn't contain himself through the rest of the show, but that can happen to anyone when talking passionately about something and bumping against a brick wall. It's entirely possible that Idra is right, and the SC2 division at blizzard just does not have the resources to and/or decision making power they need to implement alot of this stuff. I got the impression Idra and Incontrol have taken the stance that the status quo is fine, where destiny thinks the community should put pressure on blizzard the company. After how bad Diablo 3 was in my opinion, my faith in blizzard is diminishing. If people really feel that HotS is not going in the right direction, and that it is unacceptable to go over two years without basic chat and clan options, THEN DONT BUY HOTS. First of all I agree, if HoTS turns out to be a low quality followup to WoL, people should definitely not buy it. And Idra could be right about Blizzard's resources, but I'm pretty sure even Activision is well aware of the whole eSports phenomenon. If an entire community of angry people came to either of those companies and said "HEY, FIX THIS OR GET OUT", they would listen. I don't believe either of them is oblivious to what's going on here, they just think their way is better/more profitable. Wasn't there a quote from Bobby Kotick, the head of Activision, saying that SC2 was not even worth making? So i think Activision would be a very hard company to deal with, although we do not know entirely how much influence they have over Blizzard.
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On October 24 2012 12:28 RezJ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 12:21 Duravi wrote:On October 24 2012 12:17 RezJ wrote:
The reason Idra and Incontrol were against Destiny's post is not necessarily because they don't agree with it, but because they believe it's counter productive - which in their case might be true to some extent, because they're currently in a position of comfort.
Idra and Incontrol happen to be signed to the most sustained and wealthy team out there. What Destiny suggests essentially puts them out of the comfort zone, because it calls for people to recognize that the game is broken and that we have to say "stop right the fuck now" and tell the developers to fix it. That same game that puts food in their mouths. In their eyes, this is filling the community with negativity, and thus makes numbers fall. But in our eyes, the negativity is a product of the community's frustration with the game and Blizzard.
I think what the EG players are failing to see is that Destiny's message is effective and productive to them as well. Just because Blizzard haven't answered many of our calls up until now, doesn't mean they won't listen if there will be a hell of a lot more noise from their audience - the same noise the EG players are trying to diminish. They are, therefore, the ones who are being counter-productive.
I'm actually really disappointed by the fact that Destiny couldn't contain himself through the rest of the show, but that can happen to anyone when talking passionately about something and bumping against a brick wall. It's entirely possible that Idra is right, and the SC2 division at blizzard just does not have the resources to and/or decision making power they need to implement alot of this stuff. I got the impression Idra and Incontrol have taken the stance that the status quo is fine, where destiny thinks the community should put pressure on blizzard the company. After how bad Diablo 3 was in my opinion, my faith in blizzard is diminishing. If people really feel that HotS is not going in the right direction, and that it is unacceptable to go over two years without basic chat and clan options, THEN DONT BUY HOTS. First of all I agree, if HoTS turns out to be a low quality followup to WoL, people should definitely not buy it. And Idra could be right about Blizzard's resources, but I'm pretty sure even Activision is well aware of the whole eSports phenomenon. If an entire community of angry people came to either of those companies and said "HEY, FIX THIS OR GET OUT", they would listen. I don't believe either of them is oblivious to what's going on here, they just think their way is better/more profitable.
Activision only cares about numbers. If Blizzard made a pony game that all the little girls in America would play and made them millions of dollars, they'd focus only on that and let sc2 rot. By the way, a little bird told me that they're currently making a new MMO (possibly a new WoW), and that most of their team works on that or on D3 (they might have moved from D3 already after the last patch or they might be working on the pvp, I can't confirm that).
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someone link the vod i wanna see
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On October 24 2012 12:27 Duravi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 12:23 Fluid wrote:On October 24 2012 12:14 Duravi wrote:On October 24 2012 12:06 joogai wrote:
If I act as immature as Dj Wheat when I'm that old, I hope someone puts me down. Wheat acted like a jackass. Idra made a cheap shot at destiny telling him to quit and go play LoL and then incontrol came over to high five him on camera just to egg destiny on even further. Wheat says nothing. Then destiny responds by making an immature cheap shot at idra and incontrol. Oh, so now wheat cares. Now he yells about it. Between that, the completely moronic breaking bad analogy, and telling us stream numbers are rising without saying anything about SC2's stream numbers, which was the focus of the conversation, not overall numbers, wheat had an incredibly poor showing. You can't let Idra and Incontrol make cheap shots and then get mad when your guest gets frustrated and makes a cheap shot back. Wheat is friends with sirScoots from EG, so he tends to side with the EG guys in debates (or just not say anything if they say something stupid). Yeah, that scream at the end was really annoying, but Wheat does immature stuff like that. You'd hear a scream like that every now and then, when a caller "pisses him off" (aka says something that most people in a forum would scoff at easily). Usually the people wheat rags on somewhat deserve it, even if he does overplay the screaming part. This time I don't know how any sane person couldn't see the blatant bias in wheat letting a cheap shot at destiny go by without a peep, then not a minute later throwing a hissy fit about destiny's cheap shot. Clearly wheat is way too comfy with his panel to be objective enough to have guests with differing opinions on, he should probably avoid that kind of situation in the future if he doesnt want to look foolish again.
the reason that djWHEAT went off on Destiny for the cheap shot and not Geoff and Greg is because unlike Destiny, Geoff and Greg didn't bitch out and leave. Destiny took his jab and then ducked out of the call like a pussy. Thats why wheat went off like that.
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On October 24 2012 11:58 TrippSC2 wrote:
I really used to like Destiny, because he could actually make a sound, convincing argument that was well reasoned, but I haven't seen that side of him in a really long time.
The point that Idra and Incontrol were making seems pretty clean cut and I really didn't hear anything sound to refute it. He just kept saying "Blizzard is bad" over and over. I'm sure he was pissed off about the "go play LoL"-type response, but honestly that's the only thing of substance that he brought to the table was "Blizzard is shit, look at LoL." I didn't think the way Idra phrased his comment was out-of-line at all. Destiny was having a love fest over LoL and he said what anyone watching that was thinking (and I've been thinking for several months). Why doesn't Destiny just switch to LoL since he's more passionate about it?
I hate to say it, but it really feels like all of this seems to be motivated by stream views for Destiny... I don't know about anyone else, but he doesn't entertain me like he used to and his level of play isn't top caliber, so there really isn't anything to draw me to his stream. Seeing as how he makes ALL of his money from streaming (since he doesn't have any winnings and no team sponsorship), I'm damn sure that he's looking for anything that can possibly get his name out there to generate more views for him.
So this was all a ploy so 2000 people can just watch Destiny sit in his chair? Cmon man. Destiny gets* 1.3-5k viewers a night, I'm pretty sure he's not that desperate for an extra 500.
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United States23455 Posts
For SC2 to become the most popular e-sport, most of you will come to hate it.
This is the same forum that wanted to murder Blizzard for having worker counts on the capital buildings.
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On October 24 2012 12:36 Fionn wrote:
For SC2 to become the most popular e-sport, most of you will come to hate it.
This is the same forum that wanted to murder Blizzard for having worker counts on the capital buildings.
but we are ok with hats, thats all we need!
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On October 24 2012 12:36 Fionn wrote:
For SC2 to become the most popular e-sport, most of you will come to hate it.
This is the same forum that wanted to murder Blizzard for having worker counts on the capital buildings.
Why is adding the game a better UI and better custom games is going to make us hate the game?
I don't think balance ever was in question
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On October 24 2012 12:34 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 12:27 Duravi wrote:On October 24 2012 12:23 Fluid wrote:On October 24 2012 12:14 Duravi wrote:On October 24 2012 12:06 joogai wrote:
If I act as immature as Dj Wheat when I'm that old, I hope someone puts me down. Wheat acted like a jackass. Idra made a cheap shot at destiny telling him to quit and go play LoL and then incontrol came over to high five him on camera just to egg destiny on even further. Wheat says nothing. Then destiny responds by making an immature cheap shot at idra and incontrol. Oh, so now wheat cares. Now he yells about it. Between that, the completely moronic breaking bad analogy, and telling us stream numbers are rising without saying anything about SC2's stream numbers, which was the focus of the conversation, not overall numbers, wheat had an incredibly poor showing. You can't let Idra and Incontrol make cheap shots and then get mad when your guest gets frustrated and makes a cheap shot back. Wheat is friends with sirScoots from EG, so he tends to side with the EG guys in debates (or just not say anything if they say something stupid). Yeah, that scream at the end was really annoying, but Wheat does immature stuff like that. You'd hear a scream like that every now and then, when a caller "pisses him off" (aka says something that most people in a forum would scoff at easily). Usually the people wheat rags on somewhat deserve it, even if he does overplay the screaming part. This time I don't know how any sane person couldn't see the blatant bias in wheat letting a cheap shot at destiny go by without a peep, then not a minute later throwing a hissy fit about destiny's cheap shot. Clearly wheat is way too comfy with his panel to be objective enough to have guests with differing opinions on, he should probably avoid that kind of situation in the future if he doesnt want to look foolish again. the reason that djWHEAT went off on Destiny for the cheap shot and not Geoff and Greg is because unlike Destiny, Geoff and Greg didn't bitch out and leave. Destiny took his jab and then ducked out of the call like a pussy. Thats why wheat went off like that.
You just basically rewrote what he just said, and didn't actually give a legitimate reason why DJWheat acted like a child. Destiny ragequiting a show is enough to warrant an act like that? Really? Then you also have an immature mind.
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On October 24 2012 12:36 Fionn wrote:
For SC2 to become the most popular e-sport, most of you will come to hate it.
This is the same forum that wanted to murder Blizzard for having worker counts on the capital buildings.
I disagree, why would anyone hate anymore on the game if it was by rendering some aspect of it more casual that wouldnt really affect competitive 1v1. Either way something has to be done even if it is at the expense of a few hardcore fan/player to make sc2 reach its ideal growth.
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On October 24 2012 12:36 Fionn wrote:
This is the same forum that wanted to murder Blizzard for having worker counts on the capital buildings.
That can easily be fixed by having 2 different modes: normal mode and easy mode, similar to AP or APEM in dota. Very easy to implement (unless the code of bnet2.0 is a mess).
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On October 24 2012 12:36 Fionn wrote:
For SC2 to become the most popular e-sport, most of you will come to hate it.
This is the same forum that wanted to murder Blizzard for having worker counts on the capital buildings.
Honestly the most insightful yet succinct points I've seen in the past couple of weeks.
And unrelated, but after Penisgate and then this show, I'm confortable in saying I'm done giving Destiny the time of day. I used to love watching his stream for entertainment purposes too...
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On October 24 2012 12:36 Fionn wrote:
For SC2 to become the most popular e-sport, most of you will come to hate it.
This is the same forum that wanted to murder Blizzard for having worker counts on the capital buildings.
This is just Wheat's Breaking Bad vs. American Idol argument all over again.
In SC2's case there are ways to improve the user experience without compromising the quality of the product, or in other words, bring in the noobs without killing esports.
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I think this is probably the best way (and probably the only way) to keep SC2 alive, just keep the drama coming and it'll be fine. Incontrol, Idra and Destiny are the best people for this atm.
Oh and Wheat, I like him honestly but, I don't know, getting older doesn't help.
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Ok jesus destiny came on and freaked the fuck out almost beginning.
Jesus judging from the comments here I assumed incontrol started it or w/e but it sounded to me from the very second destiny came on he was yelling and getting angry before incontrol/idra even threw any insults.
I do think sc2 is fine though, unless I am mistaken this went from BW is dying every year until it actually died 14 years after being released.
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On October 24 2012 12:38 matiK23 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 12:34 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 24 2012 12:27 Duravi wrote:On October 24 2012 12:23 Fluid wrote:On October 24 2012 12:14 Duravi wrote:On October 24 2012 12:06 joogai wrote:
If I act as immature as Dj Wheat when I'm that old, I hope someone puts me down. Wheat acted like a jackass. Idra made a cheap shot at destiny telling him to quit and go play LoL and then incontrol came over to high five him on camera just to egg destiny on even further. Wheat says nothing. Then destiny responds by making an immature cheap shot at idra and incontrol. Oh, so now wheat cares. Now he yells about it. Between that, the completely moronic breaking bad analogy, and telling us stream numbers are rising without saying anything about SC2's stream numbers, which was the focus of the conversation, not overall numbers, wheat had an incredibly poor showing. You can't let Idra and Incontrol make cheap shots and then get mad when your guest gets frustrated and makes a cheap shot back. Wheat is friends with sirScoots from EG, so he tends to side with the EG guys in debates (or just not say anything if they say something stupid). Yeah, that scream at the end was really annoying, but Wheat does immature stuff like that. You'd hear a scream like that every now and then, when a caller "pisses him off" (aka says something that most people in a forum would scoff at easily). Usually the people wheat rags on somewhat deserve it, even if he does overplay the screaming part. This time I don't know how any sane person couldn't see the blatant bias in wheat letting a cheap shot at destiny go by without a peep, then not a minute later throwing a hissy fit about destiny's cheap shot. Clearly wheat is way too comfy with his panel to be objective enough to have guests with differing opinions on, he should probably avoid that kind of situation in the future if he doesnt want to look foolish again. the reason that djWHEAT went off on Destiny for the cheap shot and not Geoff and Greg is because unlike Destiny, Geoff and Greg didn't bitch out and leave. Destiny took his jab and then ducked out of the call like a pussy. Thats why wheat went off like that. You just basically rewrote what he just said, and didn't actually give a legitimate reason why DJWheat acted like a child. Destiny ragequiting a show is enough to warrant an act like that? Really? Then you also have an immature mind.
do you know who djWHEAT is? He goes off on people like this all the time. Seriously, at least once per show he does he will go off on a caller/Slasher because of something stupid they do.
It was hilarious and damn entertaining. Its why we love djWHEAT. And i didn't rewrite what the guy i quoted said. The guy i quoted is upset cause Wheat went off on Destiny but was fine with Greg's jab. Wheat went off on Destiny cause he bitched out and ragequit the call after taking his jab. Greg didn't do that.
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On October 24 2012 12:38 matiK23 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 12:34 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 24 2012 12:27 Duravi wrote:On October 24 2012 12:23 Fluid wrote:On October 24 2012 12:14 Duravi wrote:On October 24 2012 12:06 joogai wrote:
If I act as immature as Dj Wheat when I'm that old, I hope someone puts me down. Wheat acted like a jackass. Idra made a cheap shot at destiny telling him to quit and go play LoL and then incontrol came over to high five him on camera just to egg destiny on even further. Wheat says nothing. Then destiny responds by making an immature cheap shot at idra and incontrol. Oh, so now wheat cares. Now he yells about it. Between that, the completely moronic breaking bad analogy, and telling us stream numbers are rising without saying anything about SC2's stream numbers, which was the focus of the conversation, not overall numbers, wheat had an incredibly poor showing. You can't let Idra and Incontrol make cheap shots and then get mad when your guest gets frustrated and makes a cheap shot back. Wheat is friends with sirScoots from EG, so he tends to side with the EG guys in debates (or just not say anything if they say something stupid). Yeah, that scream at the end was really annoying, but Wheat does immature stuff like that. You'd hear a scream like that every now and then, when a caller "pisses him off" (aka says something that most people in a forum would scoff at easily). Usually the people wheat rags on somewhat deserve it, even if he does overplay the screaming part. This time I don't know how any sane person couldn't see the blatant bias in wheat letting a cheap shot at destiny go by without a peep, then not a minute later throwing a hissy fit about destiny's cheap shot. Clearly wheat is way too comfy with his panel to be objective enough to have guests with differing opinions on, he should probably avoid that kind of situation in the future if he doesnt want to look foolish again. the reason that djWHEAT went off on Destiny for the cheap shot and not Geoff and Greg is because unlike Destiny, Geoff and Greg didn't bitch out and leave. Destiny took his jab and then ducked out of the call like a pussy. Thats why wheat went off like that. You just basically rewrote what he just said, and didn't actually give a legitimate reason why DJWheat acted like a child. Destiny ragequiting a show is enough to warrant an act like that? Really? Then you also have an immature mind.
That's just Wheat's shtick. He's been doing it forever, it's not like he actually lost control of himself. You could see him growing increasingly exasperated at Destiny banging his head against a brick wall (TWO YEARS? Did anyone hear him say TWO YEARS?) and ignoring every counter point presented to him and so he let it all out when Destiny ragequit the call like that. I actually cannot comprehend the number of people siding with Destiny over on reddit right now, it's like he understood nothing that was being said to him the whole time he was on that call, I would be frustrated too.
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On October 24 2012 11:38 VanGarde wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 11:26 kinglemon wrote:On October 24 2012 11:25 VanGarde wrote:On October 24 2012 11:24 kinglemon wrote:On October 24 2012 11:19 colossusFTW wrote:On October 24 2012 11:15 Leth0 wrote:On October 24 2012 11:14 colossusFTW wrote:On October 24 2012 11:12 Leth0 wrote:
Destiny having a fucking meltdown on his stream. Yelling at a DJwheat (that is not there) to suck his dick over the fact that DJwheat actually works for Twitch and can easily see that their viewer numbers (for everything) is on the rise.
To be clear, I'm not even watching his stream, I was tuned into the morrow stream and overhear his petty whiney bullshit. viewers are up for twitch because LoL came into the picture  Viewers are up because all the games. What is with this idea that LoL is the only thing that matters? It's cool that you like LoL but don't be fucking ignorant. The NFL isn't going anywhere just because soccer is the largest sport on the globe. im just saying it's irrelevant dj wheat saying numbers are up on twitch. Im saying numbers are up on twitch because of LoL. REMEMBER WHEN IDRA GOT 8-10 K VIEWERS ADAY? now he gets barely 3 k he even had over 20k at some points. Yeah, back in beta when there were not 10 tournaments running every week and a multitude of people streaming, not to mention that most people couldn't play themselves at that point. There are no less sc2 fans, there is just way more possibility these days to pick the tournaments that fit your schedule and there are more streamers. not in beta, last year. I won't respond that that explicitly because I do not recall IdrA having 20k stable viewers at any point where there were multiple good foreigner zergs. IdrA used to stream way less than now, he was in the gsl code s, he was the only notable foreigner zerg and a foreigner fanfavorite. The bottom line is however that taking one players stream count and comparing it between now and a year or two years ago does not tell you anything more than that this person now has less viewers than before. Which is a meaningless comparisom if the point is to illustrate that something is wrong with the game. The only way to get useful data would be to have long term sc2 viewer stats for all streams and tournaments. Then being able to average the result and even out any unnatural spikes. One thing is for sure, Destiny does not have those stats. The only person who has any kind of credible access to numbers like that is Wheat, and he says the game is fine. I have to listen to what the guy with the numbers is saying.
wait are people actually trying to deny that viewerships are down?
THIS IS INSANE. Of coure they are down, and quite a lot. what exact number does wheat have? btw
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Northern Ireland25118 Posts
On October 24 2012 12:36 Fionn wrote:
For SC2 to become the most popular e-sport, most of you will come to hate it.
This is the same forum that wanted to murder Blizzard for having worker counts on the capital buildings.
Proper clan support and other UI changes are more important to maintaining this game, for my money, than anything else Blizzard will do long term, including the two expansions.
The only, and I mean for me this is, issue that really puts me off the game is going into ladder grind mode and the sense of isolation. I never really had that kind of feeling with WC3, due to having clan channels to fall back to and all implemented in the game. It just really could be so much better in this regard.
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On October 24 2012 12:42 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 12:38 matiK23 wrote:On October 24 2012 12:34 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 24 2012 12:27 Duravi wrote:On October 24 2012 12:23 Fluid wrote:On October 24 2012 12:14 Duravi wrote:On October 24 2012 12:06 joogai wrote:
If I act as immature as Dj Wheat when I'm that old, I hope someone puts me down. Wheat acted like a jackass. Idra made a cheap shot at destiny telling him to quit and go play LoL and then incontrol came over to high five him on camera just to egg destiny on even further. Wheat says nothing. Then destiny responds by making an immature cheap shot at idra and incontrol. Oh, so now wheat cares. Now he yells about it. Between that, the completely moronic breaking bad analogy, and telling us stream numbers are rising without saying anything about SC2's stream numbers, which was the focus of the conversation, not overall numbers, wheat had an incredibly poor showing. You can't let Idra and Incontrol make cheap shots and then get mad when your guest gets frustrated and makes a cheap shot back. Wheat is friends with sirScoots from EG, so he tends to side with the EG guys in debates (or just not say anything if they say something stupid). Yeah, that scream at the end was really annoying, but Wheat does immature stuff like that. You'd hear a scream like that every now and then, when a caller "pisses him off" (aka says something that most people in a forum would scoff at easily). Usually the people wheat rags on somewhat deserve it, even if he does overplay the screaming part. This time I don't know how any sane person couldn't see the blatant bias in wheat letting a cheap shot at destiny go by without a peep, then not a minute later throwing a hissy fit about destiny's cheap shot. Clearly wheat is way too comfy with his panel to be objective enough to have guests with differing opinions on, he should probably avoid that kind of situation in the future if he doesnt want to look foolish again. the reason that djWHEAT went off on Destiny for the cheap shot and not Geoff and Greg is because unlike Destiny, Geoff and Greg didn't bitch out and leave. Destiny took his jab and then ducked out of the call like a pussy. Thats why wheat went off like that. You just basically rewrote what he just said, and didn't actually give a legitimate reason why DJWheat acted like a child. Destiny ragequiting a show is enough to warrant an act like that? Really? Then you also have an immature mind. do you know who djWHEAT is? He goes off on people like this all the time. Seriously, at least once per show he does he will go off on a caller/Slasher because of something stupid they do. It was hilarious and damn entertaining. Its why we love djWHEAT. And i didn't rewrite what the guy i quoted said. The guy i quoted is upset cause Wheat went off on Destiny but was fine with Greg's jab. Wheat went off on Destiny cause he bitched out and ragequit the call after taking his jab. Greg didn't do that.
Why would greg drop the call? He can give whatever cheap shots he wants and nobody is going to call him out on it. Destiny was in a hostile environment from the get go, and responded poorly. I'm not upset, I think everyone except painuser on the show today looked like a bunch of immature children and are a poor example of this community. That is more disappointing than upsetting to me.
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EPT
