• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 15:43
CET 21:43
KST 05:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Dark completes military service, returns to SC211[BSL23] RO16 Group Stage19Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?2Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175
StarCraft 2
General
Dark completes military service, returns to SC2 Greetings.. No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Dark returns! GSL CK #7 4v4 Team Battle (Nov 19) soO & FanTaSy return! SC2 Kevin Scrim 4v4 (Nov 16) RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
Mutation # 552 Secret Storm The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift
Brood War
General
Korean players' earnings Hit New All-Time High! BW General Discussion List of top players active on ShieldBattery SOOP Hosts SC1 & SC2 Event Tournament: Kevin Scrim BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[BSL23] Ro16 Group C - Sunday 21:00 CET [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL23] Ro16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Pluto's TvP 5Marine 2Medic Push Simple Questions, Simple Answers Infested Terran strategies in 2026 Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Free Space RTS Game, optimised f. Phone/Tablet etc List of Game Threads The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread Trading/Investing Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12170 users

Race balance last 6 months. - Page 21

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 19 20 21 All
l3iRdMaN
Profile Joined February 2004
United States72 Posts
May 06 2011 19:33 GMT
#401
On May 07 2011 02:53 Cloak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2011 01:09 l3iRdMaN wrote:
On May 06 2011 15:44 Cloak wrote:
On May 06 2011 14:29 l3iRdMaN wrote:
On May 06 2011 02:42 War Horse wrote:
On May 06 2011 00:47 l3iRdMaN wrote:
lol sample size

8000 games is a pretty good sample size bro

User was warned for this post



was referring to the 1k korean sample size... brooooooo

anything <3-4k is subject to variance. perfect example is the apparent inferiority that is protoss on the korean ladder.

however when we look at the international graph everything's pretttttyyyy, pretty even.


Actually all samples are subject to variance, which is why we do significance tests. A chi square will tell you how confident you can be that the lopsided ratios are nonrandom.



the confidence level of a 1k sample size is somewhere between 40-60% (nowhere near enough to make an accurate assessment of 1's EV), where anything over 4k is probably above 85%. these numbers are just off the top of my head but if you could enlighten us with your fancy chi square math maybe we could get some specific numbers? everyone making a huge fuss about protoss inferiority is jumping the gun imo. (i play protoss as well)


I'm not saying either/or, just saying that there is a legit way to determine the statistic's validity. I'm just shutting down the notion that we have any idea what's a sufficient sample size without involving math.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearson's_chi-square_test

Point is that the null hypothesis (null= itz balanced guis, itz just randum) gets far less likely when the outcomes get far beyond the standard deviation. I'm too lazy to crunch though. Other people are more inclined.


i'm speaking from poker experience so i could be completely off... but any sample size >4k games had a relatively high %%% chance of being an accurate gauge of one's EV. the thing that makes it tough with SC2 is the vast range of skill between a bronze level nub and some of the top pros. what might appear as "imba" in gold could be easily countered in masters... as a result we have heaps of opinions clashing from all levels of skill into this huge never-ending debate
ATUkno
Profile Joined May 2011
United States17 Posts
June 08 2011 20:28 GMT
#402
is there an updated version of this?
Dalguno
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2446 Posts
June 08 2011 20:29 GMT
#403
On June 09 2011 05:28 ATUkno wrote:
is there an updated version of this?


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=231113
"I'm gonna keep making drones cause I'm a baller, and ballers make drones." -Snute
trippycarrot
Profile Joined June 2010
United States37 Posts
June 08 2011 20:30 GMT
#404
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=231113
Rasun
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States787 Posts
June 08 2011 20:33 GMT
#405
Very interesting stuff, the difference in Korea is surprising, but like you said its a much smaller sample size so that could be a big part of it.
"People need to just settle the fuck down!"- Djwheat <3
Prev 1 19 20 21 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL
05:00
S23 - Ro16 Group C
Artosis vs Dewalt
Ret vs Tech
ZZZero.O494
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 109
EmSc Tv 26
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 1346
ZZZero.O 494
firebathero 103
Dota 2
Gorgc5275
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps2185
zeus678
allub409
gobbtv241
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King41
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor379
Other Games
Grubby3149
Liquid`RaSZi2206
syndereN194
UpATreeSC36
Railgan15
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2634
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 26
EmSc2Tv 26
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hinosc 22
• Reevou 11
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie1430
• Shiphtur512
Upcoming Events
SOOP
13h 17m
soO vs FanTaSy
WardiTV Weekly
15h 17m
Replay Cast
1d 2h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 20h
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
GSL
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
[ Show More ]
BSL
5 days
eOnzErG vs StRyKeR
Cross vs JDConan
RSL Revival
6 days
BSL
6 days
Bonyth vs Doodle
Kyrie vs Jimin
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-14
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 591
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
IEM Kraków 2027
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.