EPTScience Vessel and Raven are fine because terrans have scan. The thing is, SV and Raven are somewhat late tech, so that justify their power. Problem is that the race need a detector soon than that. Scan does that, spore crawler not so much. If the protoss go DT -> expand, won't we be unable to attack and expand more because we will die in the middleway? We need an unit with detection, something that moves. Can Viper be this early and this powerfull?
[D] Zerg Detection - Page 22
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SDream
Brazil896 Posts
Science Vessel and Raven are fine because terrans have scan. The thing is, SV and Raven are somewhat late tech, so that justify their power. Problem is that the race need a detector soon than that. Scan does that, spore crawler not so much. If the protoss go DT -> expand, won't we be unable to attack and expand more because we will die in the middleway? We need an unit with detection, something that moves. Can Viper be this early and this powerfull? | ||
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CubY
Germany93 Posts
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Striding Strider
United Kingdom787 Posts
On October 22 2011 22:12 Sh1FTy_ wrote: Give pylons detection and you have yourself a deal. Think before you type, jesus christ. Blizzard hire this man. | ||
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kef
283 Posts
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ETisME
12387 Posts
On October 22 2011 22:12 Sh1FTy_ wrote: Give pylons detection and you have yourself a deal. Think before you type, jesus christ. overlord in bw came with detection | ||
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throttled
United States382 Posts
On October 22 2011 22:54 CubY wrote: they said it comes out of infestation pit They said Swarm Host does, not Viper. They said Viper is lair tech. The cost could be the only problem, not being late tech. I doubt it will be much though, the pull ability costs 100 energy, and the new "dark swarm" isn't actually dark swarm, it's disruption web. The other abilities will not be overpowered, just useful in support. I guarantee you won't see some "mass viper" build. Just decent support units and a good idea for detection IMO, that's all. | ||
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KDot2
United States1213 Posts
no reason not to keep the overseer too | ||
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ETisME
12387 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:11 ToguRo wrote: Viper should be OPTIONAL detection ..... no reason not to keep the overseer too it's funny how everyone was so pro- "remove overseer" because it was boring and now people realise it is actually a really useful scouting unit (Especially after the cut in cost) | ||
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Herr Wilhelm
Chile170 Posts
Almost every zerg got spores for detection/AA defense, so overseers where rarely seen. Now if you want to have a mobile detector, get the viper, it's on lair tech too. its basically the same, you just need to have an infestation pit (Im not sure) so by the time you had an overseer, you can get a little bit later the viper, which gives ANY unit your so much wanted detection. | ||
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Aetherial
Australia917 Posts
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SoKHo
Korea (South)1081 Posts
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KDot2
United States1213 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:16 ETisME wrote: it's funny how everyone was so pro- "remove overseer" because it was boring and now people realise it is actually a really useful scouting unit (Especially after the cut in cost) I was never pro remove overseer .....and I doubt anyone with much sense wanted it removed | ||
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MageWarden
United States95 Posts
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:25 Herr Wilhelm wrote: I really think taking out the overseer is a good choice, it wasn't even used. Almost every zerg got spores for detection/AA defense, so overseers where rarely seen. Now if you want to have a mobile detector, get the viper, it's on lair tech too. its basically the same, you just need to have an infestation pit (Im not sure) so by the time you had an overseer, you can get a little bit later the viper, which gives ANY unit your so much wanted detection. It's on a completely different route of lair tech and FORCES an early infestation pit. That's bad game design. Now you need: overlord speed (100/100), infestation pit (100/100) and a Viper (???/???) AND then you also need to WAIT for both the infestation pit and viper to be made, and THEN you can make a detector, meaning your detection will be even slower than currently, AND more expensive, and it will take longer to get a scout on the enemy base as well with an overlord, since you need to wait for speed to research. Removing the overseer and 'replacing' it with this joke unit completely screws up both zerg detection AND ALSO zerg scouting, making them spend more gas WITHOUT CHOICE vs just getting an overseer or two. There are serious timing issues which arise from this change more than just zerg having a different detector. The overseer may not have been "interesting", but it was more than just a detector, and it had a completely different timing to anything which requires a structure. The way the Viper could have worked would be if it was built from a hatchery (like a queen), required lair tech, the spellcaster upgrades required something else (e.g. infestation pit) AND it spawned with enough energy/whatever to make a detector unit right away. Oh AND it only takes 1 or max 2 food. | ||
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MrSexington
United States1768 Posts
>_< | ||
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:55 MrSexington wrote: They need to give spore crawlers a slightly faster movement speed and unburrowed detection. >_< 2 port banshee, focus down spores, rape the zerg who can't make an overseer for detection by making sure the infestation pit can't complete. | ||
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IMABUNNEH
United Kingdom1062 Posts
Now we have to get to lair tech, and then build a unit (possibly building a pre-req building first...), AND then cast the detection on a friendly unit. Because unscouted cloaked stuff hitting before/at lair tech wasn't strong enough vs Zerg? Looks like Evo Chamber + 1 Spore will have to work its way into (my) standard build. | ||
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MrSexington
United States1768 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:57 Lonyo wrote: 2 port banshee, focus down spores, rape the zerg who can't make an overseer for detection by making sure the infestation pit can't complete. Damnit. They need to give queens detection. >_< | ||
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MikeT
Canada35 Posts
I really like the Viper. It looks far more Zergish to me, like a giant hydralisk / wasp mixture. The Overseer I always thought was a bit of a joke. | ||
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Huntz
164 Posts
It's on a completely different route of lair tech and FORCES an early infestation pit. That's bad game design. I agree... observer needs to be available at nexus after twilight/robo or stargate IMO. | ||
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