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[D] Zerg Detection - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 28 Next All
Silent331
Profile Joined June 2010
United States356 Posts
June 06 2011 22:03 GMT
#181
Make overseers 75 gas and give them the ability to toss out globs of creep that last 15 seconds before dissipating that are around a similar size to a psi storm and make it 50 energy.

Congrats, the overseer is now an interesting unit that is useful.
They cant beat you, They only hope you beat yourself.
BoilingHell
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada98 Posts
June 06 2011 22:04 GMT
#182
Zerg easily has the most accessible mobile detection option, only requiring lair tech to be able to get it. Protoss, on the other hand, has the least accessible, forcing players to get robo tech in order to be able to detect, making stargate and gateway tech less viable. I think it would be reasonable to make the overseer cost slightly less, maybe 25/75 is more reasonable.
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
June 06 2011 22:05 GMT
#183
On June 07 2011 07:01 Yaotzin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2011 06:49 synapse wrote:
I'm not calling for radical balance changes (or balance changes at all, for that matter), I'm just saying that it's VERY ANNOYING to deal with DTs lategame. I would gladly trade overlord detection for archives DTs or stronger archons or whatever.

So this is simply about DTs being annoying bastards? Well I can't argue with that. Dunno why that should be changed though, lots of things are really annoying to deal with.

Not suggesting DTs be changed in any way. Just putting my hatred for DTs out there it IS a discussion thread after all.
:)
DoomsVille
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada4885 Posts
June 06 2011 22:08 GMT
#184
On June 07 2011 07:03 Silent331 wrote:
Make overseers 75 gas and give them the ability to toss out globs of creep that last 15 seconds before dissipating that are around a similar size to a psi storm and make it 50 energy.

Congrats, the overseer is now an interesting unit that is useful.

This makes no sense. Why not just bring overlords with you to battle and ahve them drop creep? If your opponent wastes his time target firing overlords you're happy. If he doesn't you have creep everywhere.

About the cost, overseers are a bit expensive. Observer is a much better detector and is cheaper. Raven has plenty of uses besides just detection. The only advantage an overseer has is that it is much more accessible (overlords are everywhere).

Meh, I think zerg detection is fine as it is. The only issue is that the overseer is completely useless aside from detection purposes (and occasionally contaminate being useful...). Overseer needs an interesting spell.
DoomsVille
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada4885 Posts
June 06 2011 22:09 GMT
#185
On June 07 2011 07:05 synapse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2011 07:01 Yaotzin wrote:
On June 07 2011 06:49 synapse wrote:
I'm not calling for radical balance changes (or balance changes at all, for that matter), I'm just saying that it's VERY ANNOYING to deal with DTs lategame. I would gladly trade overlord detection for archives DTs or stronger archons or whatever.

So this is simply about DTs being annoying bastards? Well I can't argue with that. Dunno why that should be changed though, lots of things are really annoying to deal with.

Not suggesting DTs be changed in any way. Just putting my hatred for DTs out there it IS a discussion thread after all.

Yea I hate DTs late game too. But honestly, it is our own damn fault. Us zergs should learn to toss up a few spines/spore crawlers at each base. It doesn't cost very much and terrans/toss do this with turrets/cannons/planetaries. We are just being greedy.
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
June 06 2011 22:10 GMT
#186
On April 26 2011 21:06 Vetrocide wrote:
whenever I expo i just throw down 1 spine and 1 spore... kinda easy to deal with lategame DT imo if you remember



Unless your playing against a human opponent and he sends more than 1 DT after reading the situation. I'm fully behind this sentiment. Early/Mid Zergs detection holds up. Its not the best but it holds up.

Late game... .........
Ugh.

Now if you could upgrade overlords to regain their detection prowess from the first game [wrings hands menacingly]
.
.
.
[/wrings hands menacingly]


At what point do we collectively admit how unusual it is that Terran has the best scouting and the best scout prevention, Protoss has the best detector unit and excellent cloaked units and Zerg is left holding the bag in the rain? Its how I and others feel and I'm sorry (genuinely) if this comes across as a balance whine but I find it to be sincerely true.
My race is hard.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
DoomsVille
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada4885 Posts
June 06 2011 22:12 GMT
#187
On June 07 2011 07:10 Probe1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 21:06 Vetrocide wrote:
whenever I expo i just throw down 1 spine and 1 spore... kinda easy to deal with lategame DT imo if you remember



Unless your playing against a human opponent and he sends more than 1 DT after reading the situation. I'm fully behind this sentiment. Early/Mid Zergs detection holds up. Its not the best but it holds up.

Late game... .........
Ugh.

Now if you could upgrade overlords to regain their detection prowess from the first game [wrings hands menacingly]
.
.
.
[/wrings hands menacingly]


At what point do we collectively admit how unusual it is that Terran has the best scouting and the best scout prevention, Protoss has the best detector unit and excellent cloaked units and Zerg is left holding the bag in the rain? Its how I and others feel and I'm sorry (genuinely) if this comes across as a balance whine but I find it to be sincerely true.
My race is hard.

Wait for HOTS. Blizzard said there will be new units. Zerg are bound to get some sort of cloaked unit. For now live with burrowed infestors/baneling bombs
SolidusR
Profile Joined November 2010
United States217 Posts
June 06 2011 22:14 GMT
#188
I concur that overseers are too expensive in comparison to other detection options. Ravens can defend themselves with PDD, observers are observers, but 100 gas is too much to spend on a unit that is essentially worthless outside of mobile detection and is also easy to snipe. More HP or less gas, imo.
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
June 06 2011 22:15 GMT
#189
On June 07 2011 07:05 synapse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2011 07:01 Yaotzin wrote:
On June 07 2011 06:49 synapse wrote:
I'm not calling for radical balance changes (or balance changes at all, for that matter), I'm just saying that it's VERY ANNOYING to deal with DTs lategame. I would gladly trade overlord detection for archives DTs or stronger archons or whatever.

So this is simply about DTs being annoying bastards? Well I can't argue with that. Dunno why that should be changed though, lots of things are really annoying to deal with.

Not suggesting DTs be changed in any way. Just putting my hatred for DTs out there it IS a discussion thread after all.

Well changing their counter is effectively the same. Anyway yeah, they're annoying. You can let them be annoying or you can pay a price to mostly shut them down.

I wish I could build like 2 cannons at each base and be immune to fucking dropship marauders
MaestroSC
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2073 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-06 22:16:55
June 06 2011 22:15 GMT
#190
burrowed roaches with roach movement are pretty strong...and a pretty offensive ability..

noone seems to be talking about infestors/roach burrow movement as an offensive capability... essentially you have templars that can cloak... i dont know i just am not a fan of the imba threads. i think detection is fine for all races atm... well scan is amazing but it always has been.

Also if overlords were detectors... that would be terrifying because SC2 is nothing like BW so u cant just directly port units and give them same functionalities.

overseers have contaminate.. which is actually a very strong ability imo... just no1 uses it.
Silent331
Profile Joined June 2010
United States356 Posts
June 06 2011 22:16 GMT
#191
On June 07 2011 07:08 DoomsVille wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2011 07:03 Silent331 wrote:
Make overseers 75 gas and give them the ability to toss out globs of creep that last 15 seconds before dissipating that are around a similar size to a psi storm and make it 50 energy.

Congrats, the overseer is now an interesting unit that is useful.

This makes no sense. Why not just bring overlords with you to battle and ahve them drop creep? If your opponent wastes his time target firing overlords you're happy. If he doesn't you have creep everywhere.

About the cost, overseers are a bit expensive. Observer is a much better detector and is cheaper. Raven has plenty of uses besides just detection. The only advantage an overseer has is that it is much more accessible (overlords are everywhere).

Meh, I think zerg detection is fine as it is. The only issue is that the overseer is completely useless aside from detection purposes (and occasionally contaminate being useful...). Overseer needs an interesting spell.

you dont bring overlords because by the time any creep is dropped you already have your concave, the point in the creep is to provide a better concave, also the fact that its an instant burst of creep makes it hundreds of times more viserital than an overlord that has to move to a location, and stop to drop creep then you have to wait 10 seconds for there to be enough creep to be worth anything
They cant beat you, They only hope you beat yourself.
dogmeatstew
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada574 Posts
June 06 2011 22:17 GMT
#192
This is inferior to a cannon which can attack ground and has detection or to turrets given that Terran built a PF.


Have you tried building an equivalent cost of spines for that PF?
archangel2
Profile Joined March 2011
76 Posts
June 06 2011 22:27 GMT
#193
I'd pay double for a cannon that could move.
denzelz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States604 Posts
June 06 2011 22:34 GMT
#194
On June 07 2011 07:27 archangel2 wrote:
I'd pay double for a cannon that could move.


And a cannon can't move because it can shoot both air and ground. Feel free to switch to Zerg and "pay double" to get a spine and a spore. They can both move.
wonderwall
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
New Zealand695 Posts
June 06 2011 22:50 GMT
#195
Getting your overseers sniped is infuriating yeah. Only solution is to have 3-4 of them and keep them on a separate hotkey if he's deliberately targeting them. He can't blink forward and try and gib them without taking tons of roach/hydra shots so it eventually become inefficient for him to do so.
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
June 06 2011 22:51 GMT
#196
On June 07 2011 07:27 archangel2 wrote:
I'd pay double for a cannon that could move.

was the case in alpha.

didn't work out apparently~
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
RaiZ
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
2813 Posts
June 06 2011 23:47 GMT
#197
Stop saying that the overseer cost 150 minerals.. It isn't. You need to make your overlord anyway. That's like asking for a depot or pylon to change to some detection building (huh, actually that wouldn't be bad for protoss or terran to have it tbh. But i fear that will renders dt or banshees completely useless).
It cost only 50 minerals and 100 gas end of period.

Concerning static defense, it's our nature as zerg for being so greedy that we're trying to make them as less as possible. We need to deal with it, and change our gameplay a little bit. Just make a spore AND a spine on each base, which the P and T are already doing it with PF and canons.

Believe me, i'm one of the most hated person when it comes to dealing with DTs or cloackable units because i'm deaf which is really a pain in the ass. But i speak for zerg, it's perfectly fine the way overseers and spores are.

What i don't like, is the 1a syndrom. Obviously you're playing it wrong if you have your overseer on the same group as ur army. What about colossus ? It's exactly the same, we need to pay attention to them.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. Oscar Wilde
brinbran
Profile Joined September 2008
United States52 Posts
June 06 2011 23:57 GMT
#198
k i didn't read through every post and I'm sure its been mentioned before, but DT's were effective in BW also because of the protoss's fast moving corsair that denied overlords all over the map. Now with phoenix to work the same way as corsairs, a phoenix dt build would work decently well in my opinion. Actually, it is even more powerful for protoss since stalkers can blink and snipe off overlords in battles regardless of whether overlords must be formed into overseers.


tl;dr: old overlords would still be balanced, DT's are still good and would require toss to reach a higher skill cap in terms of micro.
"What do you want?"
Blisse
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada3710 Posts
June 07 2011 00:03 GMT
#199
How did Dark Templars versus Zerg work in Brood War anyways? I don't see why it couldn't translate over directly.

I remember in one of those Blizzard interviews, they said they didn't like the function of the Overseer, so I think it's due for a change.
There is no one like you in the universe.
Raid
Profile Joined September 2010
United States398 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-07 00:08:56
June 07 2011 00:07 GMT
#200
On June 07 2011 07:10 Probe1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 21:06 Vetrocide wrote:
whenever I expo i just throw down 1 spine and 1 spore... kinda easy to deal with lategame DT imo if you remember



Unless your playing against a human opponent and he sends more than 1 DT after reading the situation. I'm fully behind this sentiment. Early/Mid Zergs detection holds up. Its not the best but it holds up.

Late game... .........
Ugh.

Now if you could upgrade overlords to regain their detection prowess from the first game [wrings hands menacingly]
.
.
.
[/wrings hands menacingly]


At what point do we collectively admit how unusual it is that Terran has the best scouting and the best scout prevention, Protoss has the best detector unit and excellent cloaked units and Zerg is left holding the bag in the rain? Its how I and others feel and I'm sorry (genuinely) if this comes across as a balance whine but I find it to be sincerely true.
My race is hard.


Why do zerg players always beat their own race seriously. If you hate it then don't play it nuff said. I find playing zerg really fun and enjoying as an offrace and mechanics are barely and issue. Its usually the players fault that they don't build one or two spines + spore in the late game considering how much money is banked + excess drones.

All other races have to cope with the same problems terrans have to make a ton of turrets at a certain time of the game, toss have to make cannons, its all just how much you invest to play safe and if you don't then its your own fault.

Don't even get me started with burrowed banes and creep.
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