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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
On May 05 2011 14:15 psycroptic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 13:57 rS.eZrA wrote:On May 05 2011 13:26 ROOTFayth wrote:
yeah dude protoss are doing so good vs zerg lately right? All of IdrA's wins vs Protoss were cheese. He said so himself. Zerg still has no counter to FF. Only roaches. why does there have to be a 'counter' for FFs? why does there have to be a counter for everything?
I've been wondering that myself lately. Why does there have to be a 'counter' to thors? Why do Protoss players have to beat them by playing high-graphics rock-paper-scissors rather than just outplaying their opponent? *sigh* And if Blizzard's history has taught me anything, once their assbrained 'fixes' hit the PTR they're going to go through, because they have pages upon pages of statistics that somehow prove they make the game more interesting and strategic and that thors were in fact super-duper imba.
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I played 5 games on the ptr today and they were all friggin pvp. Everyone wants to be protoss..
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On May 05 2011 13:57 rS.eZrA wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 13:26 ROOTFayth wrote:
yeah dude protoss are doing so good vs zerg lately right? All of IdrA's wins vs Protoss were cheese. He said so himself. Zerg still has no counter to FF. Only roaches.
idra also has a way of exaggerating his statements to a point where they don't mean anything.
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NP completely negates mech / battle cruisers in some situations. You can NP ghosts and EMP any other ghosts. IT's can harass mineral lines really well, and force siege tanks to kill your own units.
I would say storm is slightly better than FG, but still the Infestor counters everything from light to heavy to casters ( not so much ghosts but sometimes ), and its faster than templar, with the ability to burrow.
Actually it's the only unit in a whole game who can counter absolutely everything, from Marine to Carrier.
Instead of looking at this bullshit blizz is nerfing Thor, working on bunker salvage and trying to "fix" the spore crawler...
Hilarious company.
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United States7483 Posts
On May 05 2011 14:40 Jimbo77 wrote:Show nested quote +NP completely negates mech / battle cruisers in some situations. You can NP ghosts and EMP any other ghosts. IT's can harass mineral lines really well, and force siege tanks to kill your own units.
I would say storm is slightly better than FG, but still the Infestor counters everything from light to heavy to casters ( not so much ghosts but sometimes ), and its faster than templar, with the ability to burrow. Actually it's the only unit in a whole game who can counter absolutely everything, from Marine to Carrier. Instead of looking at this bullshit blizz is nerfing Thor, working on bunker salvage and trying to "fix" the spore crawler... Hilarious company.
Except ultralisks, which can't be mind-controlled or rooted by fungal growth due to frenzy =p.
Edit: they also suck against planetary fortresses and any other kind of static defense. Being able to kill buildings matters man!
They can even counter ghosts if you do it right, I saw a game where a player burrowed an infestor, snuck up and neural'd a ghost, then made him EMP himself and 2 of his buddies.
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On May 05 2011 14:47 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 14:40 Jimbo77 wrote:NP completely negates mech / battle cruisers in some situations. You can NP ghosts and EMP any other ghosts. IT's can harass mineral lines really well, and force siege tanks to kill your own units.
I would say storm is slightly better than FG, but still the Infestor counters everything from light to heavy to casters ( not so much ghosts but sometimes ), and its faster than templar, with the ability to burrow. Actually it's the only unit in a whole game who can counter absolutely everything, from Marine to Carrier. Instead of looking at this bullshit blizz is nerfing Thor, working on bunker salvage and trying to "fix" the spore crawler... Hilarious company. Except ultralisks, which can't be mind-controlled or rooted by fungal growth due to frenzy =p.
Good point.
Why don't have such ability BC, Carriers and Colossi? Question mostly to blizz.
Infestors at now are just a joke against T and P.
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Wow please quit crying, this is pathetic. Infestors are a caster unit that function differently from other casters, they are also designed to support zerg armies and they do this incredibly well. More news at 11?
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On May 05 2011 14:22 dartoo wrote:
I played 5 games on the ptr today and they were all friggin pvp. Everyone wants to be protoss..
Or mainly because the big changes that need testing are the Protoss ones? ^^
Also, I'm excited to the ghost change, at least we will be able to spend extra gas elsewhere now and the Thor change, it was bound to happen eventually, still don't think its broken though
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I hate how feedback is in this game. I hate how almost every spell in this game is a disabling spell rather than a continuation of micro spell.
Feedback - stops exciting spellcasters
fungal - stops any sort of micro
strike cannon - stun
graviton - stun and lift - somewhat exciting
forcefield - stops micro minus burrowed roach
What happened to dark swarm pushes, plague, irridates everywhere. Not to turn this into a BW vs SC2 discussion, but now with thors having energy, it is becoming a bit ridiculous
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On May 05 2011 14:25 junemermaid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 13:57 rS.eZrA wrote:On May 05 2011 13:26 ROOTFayth wrote:
yeah dude protoss are doing so good vs zerg lately right? All of IdrA's wins vs Protoss were cheese. He said so himself. Zerg still has no counter to FF. Only roaches. idra also has a way of exaggerating his statements to a point where they don't mean anything.
Don't know if I've ever seen a more ignorant statement before in my life.
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On May 05 2011 15:15 Yogurt wrote:
I hate how feedback is in this game. I hate how almost every spell in this game is a disabling spell rather than a continuation of micro spell.
Feedback - stops exciting spellcasters
fungal - stops any sort of micro
strike cannon - stun
graviton - stun and lift - somewhat exciting
forcefield - stops micro minus burrowed roach
What happened to dark swarm pushes, plague, irridates everywhere. Not to turn this into a BW vs SC2 discussion, but now with thors having energy, it is becoming a bit ridiculous
I whole-heartedly agree, I wish more spells were in this game that weren't movement-impairing or negating any sort of unit control. However, it is what it is. 
I'm still not sure where Blizzard is going with these zerg changes, it seems there were more important things to address than Infestor movement.
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Feedback is so hard to use, don't you think it's more exciting to have a HT do a really APM intensive multiple feedback of 3-4 ghosts (small units, hard to find) before they release a torrent of 100 AOE damage to your units?
It adds a layer of interactivity, allowing you to affect the outcome (if you have the skill to) instead of just sitting there and taking the 100 damage.
I find that more exciting, having both sides have a fighting chance, instead of just ghost cloaking, walking in for EMP and boom, 5 seconds later you've lost. The Game.
As for fungal, recently I've seen Terrans just walk forward with a small ground of marauders just for infestor sniping, while the rest of their army is pre-split.
The spells are good, just different, and require a different type of micro. BW and SC2 are different games.
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On May 05 2011 14:22 dartoo wrote:
I played 5 games on the ptr today and they were all friggin pvp. Everyone wants to be protoss..
Including you, apparently?
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On May 05 2011 15:15 Yogurt wrote:
I hate how feedback is in this game. I hate how almost every spell in this game is a disabling spell rather than a continuation of micro spell.
Feedback - stops exciting spellcasters
fungal - stops any sort of micro
strike cannon - stun
graviton - stun and lift - somewhat exciting
forcefield - stops micro minus burrowed roach
What happened to dark swarm pushes, plague, irridates everywhere. Not to turn this into a BW vs SC2 discussion, but now with thors having energy, it is becoming a bit ridiculous
Most of the abilities actually just require different kinds of micro. They require more forward thinking and less reactionary thinking.
In BW, you see it happen and react to it. Plague, swarm, irradiate, storm, etc all are things that you see then react accordingly.
In SC2, you are aware of the existence and deal with things appropriately
Fungal - As said, you run a few units ahead or perhaps put ghosts/HT out there in the front to handle them. This is arguably more micro intensive than some of the things in BW (minus irradiate because that was always a pain in the ass to pick the right unit out of a group of mutas)
Feedback - Most spellcasters that can get hit by feedback can prevent it. Fungal and EMP both outrange and prevent it from going off. Which is actually different than in BW (from what I remember) with feedback on DA, which had a higher range.
Graviton - Actually has a fairly short range so you can stop it fairly fast by targetting the phoenix.
FF - can be baited, forward thinking in such a situation is still micro on the same level as swarm/plague. The obvious exception to this is when FF is used to trap units and prevent them from running away.
Strike cannon is kinda lame though.
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This is just a thought but protoss say that thors with the cooldown ability is hard to deal with terrans say that thors with energy greatly reduces the effectiveness of thors.
So why not give them the cooldown ability back then take away that ridiculous stun thing. Basically treat the cannons like yamato. Once the BC starts using yamato the ability lands regardless (disregarding things like cloaking at the last minute) at least it did in BW. Make the strike cannon operate the same way meaning units being hit by the cannons can still move around and attack and even if they run away the cannons still hit them. With the exception of the ultra this would not change much as with the cooldown ability they would have died anyway this just would give them the ability to fight back while being hit or even have the option of running back towards a transport or something to stop the affects of the attack.
As it stands now I'm pretty sure the dps of the thors main cannons is greater than that of the stike cannons so basically the only advantage of using them is to immobilize the target (and penetrate immortal shields) so they would probably need something else instead if they lost the stun feature possibly a bit better range or something like that.
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As much as people don't like it... Blizzard is clearly balancing for lower level casual gamers. I HIGHLY doubt that Blizzard took a look at Thorzain's 2-3 games where he dominated with Thors and decided to nerf them.
Blizzard is likely looking at the hundreds of thousands of games where low level casual gamers abused thors in their PvT matchups making the game unfun.
The same is true with 4 gate. Like Tyler and others have pointed out... 4 gate was sorting itself out at the pro level... the problem is, it was not sorting itself out at the lower levels and probably never would. Therefore in order to make the game more fun, Blizzard decides to nerf 4 gate.
We know for a fact that Blizzard uses statistics from lower level ladder play to address balance. They take into consideration 2v2 and other team games also. They take EVERYTHING into consideration, not just pro balance. We here at TL only look at pro level games and feel that only pro level people can talk on balance. Clearly Blizzard does not feel the same way.
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On May 05 2011 14:22 Ezekyle wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 14:15 psycroptic wrote:On May 05 2011 13:57 rS.eZrA wrote:On May 05 2011 13:26 ROOTFayth wrote:
yeah dude protoss are doing so good vs zerg lately right? All of IdrA's wins vs Protoss were cheese. He said so himself. Zerg still has no counter to FF. Only roaches. why does there have to be a 'counter' for FFs? why does there have to be a counter for everything? I've been wondering that myself lately. Why does there have to be a 'counter' to thors? Why do Protoss players have to beat them by playing high-graphics rock-paper-scissors rather than just outplaying their opponent? *sigh* And if Blizzard's history has taught me anything, once their assbrained 'fixes' hit the PTR they're going to go through, because they have pages upon pages of statistics that somehow prove they make the game more interesting and strategic and that thors were in fact super-duper imba.
What? FG not affecting air units went on the PTR, and that didn't go through. 180 second WG research time, along with the 5 second Zealot and Stalker build buff from Gateway also didn't go through.
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On May 05 2011 15:50 randplaty wrote:
As much as people don't like it... Blizzard is clearly balancing for lower level casual gamers. I HIGHLY doubt that Blizzard took a look at Thorzain's 2-3 games where he dominated with Thors and decided to nerf them.
Blizzard is likely looking at the hundreds of thousands of games where low level casual gamers abused thors in their PvT matchups making the game unfun.
The same is true with 4 gate. Like Tyler and others have pointed out... 4 gate was sorting itself out at the pro level... the problem is, it was not sorting itself out at the lower levels and probably never would. Therefore in order to make the game more fun, Blizzard decides to nerf 4 gate.
We know for a fact that Blizzard uses statistics from lower level ladder play to address balance. They take into consideration 2v2 and other team games also. They take EVERYTHING into consideration, not just pro balance. We here at TL only look at pro level games and feel that only pro level people can talk on balance. Clearly Blizzard does not feel the same way.
I remember hearing during an interview that blizzard said that they do look at balance for all levels of play but will only balance something for the lower leagues if they feel it will not hurt higher level of play.
Also with the updated patch notes it seems to me they reverted the pvp 4gate changes. the warp gate research is back to normal the only gateway unit that still builds faster is the sentry.
So basically the only 4 gate nerf that is still in is the pylon nerf which doesn't make 4gating in pvp impossible imo just harder.
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On May 05 2011 15:50 randplaty wrote:
As much as people don't like it... Blizzard is clearly balancing for lower level casual gamers. I HIGHLY doubt that Blizzard took a look at Thorzain's 2-3 games where he dominated with Thors and decided to nerf them.
Blizzard is likely looking at the hundreds of thousands of games where low level casual gamers abused thors in their PvT matchups making the game unfun.
The same is true with 4 gate. Like Tyler and others have pointed out... 4 gate was sorting itself out at the pro level... the problem is, it was not sorting itself out at the lower levels and probably never would. Therefore in order to make the game more fun, Blizzard decides to nerf 4 gate.
We know for a fact that Blizzard uses statistics from lower level ladder play to address balance. They take into consideration 2v2 and other team games also. They take EVERYTHING into consideration, not just pro balance. We here at TL only look at pro level games and feel that only pro level people can talk on balance. Clearly Blizzard does not feel the same way.
i was just about to say the same thing, sc2 was not meant to be played at a high level. i guess thats what broodwar is for
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On May 05 2011 15:15 Yogurt wrote:
I hate how feedback is in this game. I hate how almost every spell in this game is a disabling spell rather than a continuation of micro spell.
Feedback - stops exciting spellcasters
fungal - stops any sort of micro
strike cannon - stun
graviton - stun and lift - somewhat exciting
forcefield - stops micro minus burrowed roach
What happened to dark swarm pushes, plague, irridates everywhere. Not to turn this into a BW vs SC2 discussion, but now with thors having energy, it is becoming a bit ridiculous
This reminds me of WoW now I think about it.. lol. So many stuns -_-.
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