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Spoilers from NASL day 2.
Hello StarCraft Fans and NASL's viewers,
I don't require dicussion about the game balance in this thread, only about one map's balance.
At first when I saw the NASL's mappool, I found it good, except crossfire which looks (and proved to be) a horrible maps for zergs against protoss.
But, after I saw the third game of EGincontrol vs oGsEnsnare, I was shocked by the NASL's Tal'Darim Altar. This map is A JOKE.
While blizzard changed original Tal'Darim Altar by expanding the natural's ramp and the natural's entrance to make ForceFields and and 3 3x3 buildings (for example forge gate cybernetic) less effective and more balanced, the NASL even reduced the original space to make protoss EVEN stronger.
They also added 4 gold expands near the middle of the map and destructible rocks at all the bases which aren't main or natural bases. Those rocks are a very good advantage for protosses which don't really need to take multiple expands at one time and prefer to have all their units together.
The rocks at the gold bases even helped incontrol in a fight against ensnare where forcefield + rocks prevented Ensnare of making a good concave with his heavy marauders/marines force. For a zerg, those rocks could even be worst than for a terran like ensnare (while being against a protoss) since zergs need an even better concave than terrans because roach's range is inferior than terran units.
I didn't (yet) notice changes on the other NASL maps that's why I only talk about Tal'Darim Altar but if you noticed something different, you can still talk about it here.
Maybe I'm alone to find it as a bad change but if you don't aggree with my analysis, please explain your statement. If most people aggree with me, I hope NASL's people will see the poll and change the map.
Cordially,
Cosmos
Poll: The NASL's Tal'Darim Altar...isn't as good as the Blizzard's map (692) 93% is better than the Blizzard's map (51) 7% 743 total votes Your vote: The NASL's Tal'Darim Altar... (Vote): isn't as good as the Blizzard's map
(Vote): is better than the Blizzard's map
Poll: If you don't have an opinionI voted on the other poll. (216) 63% I don't have an opinion about these maps. (126) 37% 342 total votes Your vote: If you don't have an opinion (Vote): I don't have an opinion about these maps.
(Vote): I voted on the other poll.
Edit: second poll as required.
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poll needs an indifferent option, imo.
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Well, if your are indifferent, you don't need to vote^^
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dunno why they tried to change one of, if not THE best map currently in competitive play. only thing i would change is take out the rocks on 2nd nat so its like GSL version
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i missed day 2 of nasl but if this is true (4 gold expos +rocks LOL) then im not watching nasl anymore.
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Well, if you're indifferent your opinion still is pretty important. What if 90% of people are indifferent, 8% say NASL's is worse, and only 2% say Blizzard's is worse. Then in your poll it seems heavily in favor against NASL, but in reality the point is more or less moot.
Change the poll.
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On April 15 2011 05:06 pycho wrote:
i missed day 2 of nasl but if this is true (4 gold expos +rocks LOL) then im not watching nasl anymore.
I'm slightly concerned with the map too, but... seriously?
One bad map in the map pool means not watching the entire league any more? Because, in BW there were no bad maps, and in SC2 before now, the maps were WAY better.
Like Scrap Station.
Or Steppes.
Good maps right guys?
(Full disclosure: I actually don't like Tal'darim too much in general)
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Although ensnare reacted poorly to inc's phoenix Colo composition (not enough Vikings and no ghosts), I think the changes definitely favour Protoss.
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Tal'darim is too big and it doesn't need gold expo IMO
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I'm so sick of rocks in general. Just look at the backwater gulch rocks next to the natural which just SCREAMS void ray imbalance.
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On April 15 2011 05:03 GriNn wrote:
poll needs an indifferent option, imo.
Agreed. Let's add the option of "Backwater Gulch is in the pool, wtf?"
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Sounds a lot like the original GSL tal'darim before it was heavily changed. If that is true, then I can't believe the NASL is using a map that was found to be heavily imbalanced through GSL's testing. Definitely the worse version, next to Blizzard's.
I don't understand why each tournament uses not only a different version, but an inferior version. This is a bad decision by NASL and it needs to be fixed asap.
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I like the NASL so far in general but the maps are really weird. Backwater Gulch? Really? Then they take a pretty good map and throw rocks pretty much everywhere. That's really my only complaint about NASL.
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Hmm, I think it was more of Ensnare not waiting for ghost or not getting ghost fast enough. Dont forget that fighting in constrain area will also give EMP a large advantage. If you were watching the game, you would notice that Ensnare finished mobius factor and had ghost walking on their way. If he could of just waited to engage, I think it could of been a totally different fight. He also had a pretty decent concave. Of course the surrounding had some factor but I dont think it matter as much.
But honestly, it just very hard to engage a protoss player are this point since without a doubt, protoss late game > terran late game simply cause it easyer to control and a-move collosi. Iono, I dont wana blame the map because it a pretty good map overall and the center is relatively open. All I am saying is if ensnare had just waited for his ghost he could of probably changed the entire game. Also, ensnare at all the watch tower as well. He would have the advantage ad defending since he could easily planed a flank or prepare an even better concave.
Simply put, I think the map is fine.
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It doesnt seems so bad by the looks of it, it's still very playable and I dont think the balance will tilt towards anyone badly because of it.
The problem as I see it however is making too many different versions of the same map. You can miss a hole in your wall-in because the choke is one size in version 1,2,4 and 6 but you happened to be playing on version 5 for the first time, where they made the choke one size bigger. Sure one should be able to adapt but one should also get comfortable with a map that you played 100 times and not lose games because version 7 has some slightly different and easily overlooked features then previous versions.
And I dont see why they wanted to change Tal'Darim altar in the first place, the first 2 versions are both great and didnt need to be changed at all.
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I don't think backwater gulch is as bad as crossfire.
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On April 15 2011 05:16 Cosmos wrote:
I don't think backwater gulch is as bad as crossfire.
You're terran, that's why.
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i dont know why they changed the map like this. was something wrong with blizzard and gsl tal darim?
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There are too many different versions being used throughout the leagues and ladder, we need one version and stick with it.
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I'm glad I wasn't going crazy. I was like wait this must be a new version, it looks like the original GSL version, but wait wild rocks have appeared everywhere.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/2d3NO.jpg)
