I don't really want to get into balance but i think NASL should use the latest version of the map. There isn't much sense using an outdated version. Even if they don't use the LE version, they should at least use the latest GSL version.

Sworn

Canada920 Posts

April 14 2011 22:06 GMT

#62

I dont know why NASL likes rocks more than blizzard but lol.

Tohrazer

United Kingdom75 Posts

April 14 2011 22:08 GMT

#63

it was horrible imo, i was cringing at incontrols win, not saying he's a bad player (because he isnt) but it felt like in that particular game the map basically made it impossible for ensnare to use any advantage he had earned, alot of my friends independently of one another have pointed this out to me and were pretty horrified by it aswell

dvide

United Kingdom287 Posts

April 14 2011 22:09 GMT

#64

Yes, I thought this at the time. Please NASL, get with the program. This map wasn't even used in the original GSTL. They had updated it to remove the rocks and gold bases even before that.

Gaius Baltar

United States449 Posts

April 14 2011 22:10 GMT

#65

This looks a trial version of T'd Altar even before it was approved for GSTL S1, down to the doodads. I'm just not sure if that version had the destructible rocks between the main and nat. In any case, seems like regression to me.

-_-

United States7081 Posts

April 14 2011 22:11 GMT

#66

Haven't seen enough of the map to decide whether its balanced or not. What I am interested in is why they chose the version of T'al they did, or if they modded it, and the reasons why.

Has Xeris made an official statement?

Nerski

United States1095 Posts

April 14 2011 22:14 GMT

#67

of all the maps to adjust i'm not sure why they did so with this map...the gold expansions are pretty much impossible to take at the center unless you've already won the game...the extra rocks make little sense...will see how it plays out but overall I'm not super excited about the changes.

Ragoo

Germany2773 Posts

April 14 2011 22:15 GMT

#68

lol, NASL's map pool is kinda ridiculous. Old Tal'Darim, old Terminus. Both are changed for a reason. And then Crossfire which is horrible ZvP with all these chokes and Backwater which is highly questionable as well.
I'm not surprised if Protoss will continue to dominate with this kind of map pool. I just wish they had chosen Testbug at least :C

abominare

United States1216 Posts

April 14 2011 22:17 GMT

#69

Wait the tourny being led by a protoss is using the old versions of maps that had heavily favored protoss....

say it aint so!

*snicker*

raf3776

United States1904 Posts

April 14 2011 22:18 GMT

#70

The OP just sounds like a rant about protoss IMO but about the map. Id say it adds more of an element. If your that far ahead where you can be safe and take the gold than you've probably already won at that point. The rocks are the bases behind the naturals are strange but by that point you can kill rocks easily for any race so its no big deal. Id like to avoid calling any race IMBA on these maps because the races are fine, its just strategies havent evened out yet

Filosoraptor

United States21 Posts

April 14 2011 22:21 GMT

#71

As a toss player, I love the rocks added to the main making the entrance much smaller. With a wide open main, I often felt like I had to FE against zerg because the main choke and the natural choke were relatively the same size, and choking the main with a forge first severely limits the tech and economy of toss. The rocks allow the toss player to FE if they choose, or 1 gate/core block into 3 gate expand, or any other early builds, while also having to keep the rocks in the back of their mind as a potential weakness they have to deal with.

bkrow

Australia8532 Posts

April 14 2011 22:24 GMT

#72

Even though i agree with you that the changes are a little bit strange; i don't see how you can encourage discussion by opening with "THIS MAP IS A JOKE"

In terms of balance i don't think basing an entire conclusion off one game played incredibly poorly by oGsEnsnare can be conclusive. Yes forcefields block ramps; but then again yes Terrans have dropships, and vikings, and units that can be produced out of other buildings besides a barracks;

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how this map plays out over time, if there is a serious problem i am sure NASL will look for a remedy - everything else they have done has been community minded.

Stiluz

Norway688 Posts

April 14 2011 22:24 GMT

#73

Wow, they're using a version found to be favoring Protoss that has been revised, instead of the new more balanced version? Wut? And the old Terminus? This just makes an additional version of that map, really, what's the point? Use the ladder one or the new GSL version.

Diamond

United States10796 Posts

April 14 2011 22:27 GMT

#74

I'm sort of curious why Backwater Gulch is in the pool too considering every other tournament ever does not use this horrible map...

All in all, I think the map pool is NASL's biggest weakness right now.

iYiYi

United States489 Posts

April 14 2011 22:33 GMT

#75

Didn't it have enough expansions already? Jesus why would they add more.

Ketara

United States15065 Posts

April 14 2011 22:38 GMT

#76

It must be really hard to be the NASL staff, having to take so much negativity after only two days from their exact target audience.

Can people at least give them a week before saying they're so terrible. Isn't the name North American Star League worth that to much to you

Sanguinarius

United States3427 Posts

April 14 2011 22:42 GMT

#77

I think the biggest problem with this map is that there are about 3 or 4? versions of this map floating about, and everyone uses different ones. Its damn confusing.

setzer

United States3284 Posts

April 14 2011 22:42 GMT

#78

On April 15 2011 07:24 bkrow wrote:
Even though i agree with you that the changes are a little bit strange; i don't see how you can encourage discussion by opening with "THIS MAP IS A JOKE"

In terms of balance i don't think basing an entire conclusion off one game played incredibly poorly by oGsEnsnare can be conclusive. Yes forcefields block ramps; but then again yes Terrans have dropships, and vikings, and units that can be produced out of other buildings besides a barracks;

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how this map plays out over time, if there is a serious problem i am sure NASL will look for a remedy - everything else they have done has been community minded.

Uh, the map is a joke. There is a reason LSPrime heavily modified the map into its current version. The version NASL is using never even made it into the original GSTL.

Datum

United States371 Posts

April 14 2011 22:51 GMT

#79

Referring to the OP, the map isn't necessarily imbalanced just because a player used terrain to his advantage. It's not as if oGsEnsnare was forced to engage right next to rocks. Everybody should know by know that the larger the area of engagement, the worse it is for protoss.
As for the gold bases, these don't seem to unfair to me. These bases are so exposed that unless a protoss player builds a ton of cannons, a zerg player could sacrifice a very small portion of their army to take it out. Sure, Protoss doesn't need to grab multiple expos at once. But a protoss player can't split up their army, so the valnurablity of these bases can be used to harrass the protoss.
I'm not really sure whether the map is imbalanced or not, as I'm a relatively noobish player, but I'm not those two aspects mentioned in the OP make it impalanced (the expo choke seems like a good point though.

shawty

United Kingdom294 Posts

April 14 2011 22:51 GMT

#80

I think people need to wait and see how other games pan out on this map. Ensnare should not have waited until Inc could catch up on his supply before attacking at an awkward angle into FF and collossi with almost pure bio.

I'm sure that in other situations it won't seem quite as bad as Ensnare made it seem