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On April 15 2011 05:46 floor exercise wrote:
It kinda seems like a huge oversight if they aren't using the right map versions. What do you suppose they do from here? I would think they have to switch them out, there are some significant differences
The map pool is constantly changing per group as the tournament moves forward.
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i guess ensnare got a little impatient there picking such a wrong battlefield.
He knew his lead was rapidly diminishing and he prolly thought that would be only chance he would catch incontrol's army out of the ramp before it maxed (which practically was at max).
As far as map goes, I find it absolutely stupid having high yield in Tal'darim. It's already big and so many expos all over the map. Destructible rocks werent meant to impede the battle in such a way but it was just poor but somewhat understandable choice by ensnare.
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On April 15 2011 05:48 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 05:46 floor exercise wrote:
It kinda seems like a huge oversight if they aren't using the right map versions. What do you suppose they do from here? I would think they have to switch them out, there are some significant differences The map pool is constantly changing per group as the tournament moves forward.
What? It's still a fixed map pool even if it rotates. Everyone still plays on Taldarim if they haven't yet. Do some guys play on a different version than others? Even if one favors their race more than another. Or do we keep playing an inferior version?
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On April 15 2011 05:47 SnuggleZhenya wrote:
The real problem here is that Ensnare didn't play the map the way he should have. Maybe the map needs to change maybe it doesn't, but you have to play the map you're on at the time, and Ensnare just way over produced his marine/marauder army which was basically the worst possible composition for that situation.
Ensnare may have played it wrong in your opinion (I wouldn't know.. the game rather boring to the point that I just turned it off), but that doesn't change the fact that the old version of this map still has rather significant balance issues.
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On April 15 2011 05:47 SnuggleZhenya wrote:
The real problem here is that Ensnare didn't play the map the way he should have. Maybe the map needs to change maybe it doesn't, but you have to play the map you're on at the time, and Ensnare just way over produced his marine/marauder army which was basically the worst possible composition for that situation.
Yeah. I agree with this.
While the Protoss was able to completely negate the Terran's advantage with forcefields and that feels ridiculous on its own, Ensnare subjected himself to this kind of shenaniganry by getting such an ineffective force for moving up ramps. What if he had gotten siege tanks and banshees and taken the position next to the expo and sieged the mineral line?
What if he had enough medivacs to have dropped half his army in the back of InControl's base?
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I feel like I'm the only person that absolutely loves blizzards Tal"darim LE. Its a fun map and its less predictable than others.
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can you dig up a pic and put it in the OP?
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On April 15 2011 05:40 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 05:31 Antoine wrote:
it's not a new version, it's like the very original version LS made
if you go back and look at the 1st screeenshots or 1st games on Gisado, it's this map Well the OP also thinks crossfire is imba for protoss against zerg.
zerg against protoss.
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the thing with the ensnare/incontrol game was that ensnare was so far ahead that that engagement shouldn't have mattered
the map let incontrol get to 200/200 and incontrol probably could've taken a 4th and equalized the game right there had ensnare not attacked
I hear people say "he should've done more drops"
lol he tried several drops but once you get like 2 cannons up and you're turtling it's so easy to defend an expo that's so close to each other; the drop isn't a guaranteed harass where you'll come out ahead, the other guy has to be way offguard for that to work well enough
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On April 15 2011 05:50 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 05:48 Baarn wrote:On April 15 2011 05:46 floor exercise wrote:
It kinda seems like a huge oversight if they aren't using the right map versions. What do you suppose they do from here? I would think they have to switch them out, there are some significant differences The map pool is constantly changing per group as the tournament moves forward. What? It's still a fixed map pool even if it rotates. Everyone still plays on Taldarim if they haven't yet. Do some guys play on a different version than others? Even if one favors their race more than another. Or do we keep playing an inferior version?
I think after a week of preparation and knowing the map you are getting you should be able to adjust your play regardless of fotm race balance for it.
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On April 15 2011 05:54 FliedLice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 05:40 Baarn wrote:On April 15 2011 05:31 Antoine wrote:
it's not a new version, it's like the very original version LS made
if you go back and look at the 1st screeenshots or 1st games on Gisado, it's this map Well the OP also thinks crossfire is imba for protoss against zerg. zerg against protoss.
you mean zerg beating protoss.
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i would like to hear the reasoning on why they use outdated version of maps
it really doesn't make sense
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On April 15 2011 05:56 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 05:50 floor exercise wrote:On April 15 2011 05:48 Baarn wrote:On April 15 2011 05:46 floor exercise wrote:
It kinda seems like a huge oversight if they aren't using the right map versions. What do you suppose they do from here? I would think they have to switch them out, there are some significant differences The map pool is constantly changing per group as the tournament moves forward. What? It's still a fixed map pool even if it rotates. Everyone still plays on Taldarim if they haven't yet. Do some guys play on a different version than others? Even if one favors their race more than another. Or do we keep playing an inferior version? I think after a week of preparation and knowing the map you are getting you should be able to adjust your play regardless of fotm race balance for it.
Let's bring back steppes then
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the nasl changes are really irrelevant, those high yields will rarely see any use at all. ensnare vs incontrol was a joke game and ensnare played like a noob with a huge advantage just threw the game so hard it was disappointing.
Please don't use that game to discuss balance of the map.
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This is the original Tal'Darim Altar, and the version I'm assuming they're using in the NASL (assuming cause I didn't bother watching):
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/1bBHh.jpg)
On April 15 2011 06:02 KawaiiRice wrote:
the nasl changes are really irrelevant, those high yields will rarely see any use at all. ensnare vs incontrol was a joke game and ensnare played like a noob with a huge advantage just threw the game so hard it was disappointing.
Please don't use that game to discuss balance of the map.
It's not really about whether the map affected the game's outcome, but rather the fact that NASL are using outdated (2-3+ months old) versions of the GSL maps, not to mention other questionable choices such as Backwater.
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I remember watching it live and wondering WTF version of Tal Darim they were playing on. Don't understand why tournaments want to use outdated versions of maps (Terminus RE instead of SE, og TDA vs LE or current GSL). Theres obviously a reason why the maps were updated.
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Thanks for the image, I uploaded it to the OP.
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On April 15 2011 06:02 KawaiiRice wrote:
the nasl changes are really irrelevant, those high yields will rarely see any use at all. ensnare vs incontrol was a joke game and ensnare played like a noob with a huge advantage just threw the game so hard it was disappointing.
Please don't use that game to discuss balance of the map.
I absolutly don't use that game. My thoughts about the unbalance is mostly about the ZvP.
Please don't all argue about how Ensnare could have play this. I didn't like his strat at all and I don't really think that there are many issues regarding PvT (at least not more on this map than on any other).
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Yeah, the fact that they're using a super outdated map is questionable. Also I think the Tal'darim Altar that they used in GSL 5 is a better version than the LE which Blizzard made. I can understand using LE, as people are used to it (even though I think Blizzard ruined the map), but using a super outdated map is just unnecessary and inconsistent, even if the golds in the middle doesn't change play much.
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Lol...this map really is a joke. I can't believe they thought any of all that were good ideas...
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EPT
