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On April 14 2011 13:20 Jotoco wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 11:00 eviltomahawk wrote:
From the perspective of a TvT.
Siege tanks in BW had a range of 12. SC2 siege tanks have a range of 13. Plus, SC2 siege tanks have 160 health as opposed to the 150 health of BW siege tanks. In addition, SC2 siege tanks build 5 seconds faster than their BW counterparts, though at the cost of 25 more Gas. Although BW siege tanks do more siege damage and have bigger splash, SC2 siege tanks do compensate with better range and health.
Therefore, I think that in a standard Tank vs Tank would be quite interesting to watch as the SC2 tanks take advantage of their better range while the BW tanks take advantage of their better damage. These subtle differences should make all the difference in this mirror matchup.
Also, although Vulture are overall better units than Hellions, they can still be shut down quite hard by Marauders, which are basically the Terran version of the Dragoon, minus shields but with Concussive Shell. Vultures will barely tickle the tons of health and armor of the Marauder while being slowed down and torn apart by the Concussive Shells.
In addition, Vikings are much better AA than Goliaths. Although both do the same amount of base damage (20 for Goliaths and 10x2 = 20 for Vikings), Vikings also get a bonus against armored units, which makes them quite devastating against any Battlecruiser shenanigans from the BW faction. Couple with the fact that players can pump Vikings ridiculously fast out of reactored Starports, Vikings shut down BW airplay quite hard including Battlecruisers. In addition, whereas Goliath mobility was extremely limited since they are ground units with shitty pathfinding AI, Vikings suffer no such mobility issues since they are flyers. Also, Vikings work quite well with Siege Tank lines as spotters and mobile AA.
In addition, MULEs give SC2 Terran a huge early and late game advantage over BW Terran. Early game MULEs give SC2 Terrans the ability to amass a larger army more quickly, thus giving them the advantage in early game pressure. Late game during near-stalemate situations, a mass OC strategy gives the SC2 Terran a significant advantage in resource collection and food differential by allowing him to sacrifice his SCVs much earlier to free up more supply for a bigger army while maintaining ridiculous income with MULEs.
Also, Raven + Banshee can be an extremely potent combo when chipping away at tank lines. PDD can easily nullify missiles from Goliaths, Turrets, and Wraiths while the Banshee tears up Siege Tanks at a much faster rate than the Wraith's tiny airsoft guns. Do not forget about medics and firebats. Those should do fine against MMM. And Irradiate. That should melt MMM. Also. Blinding ravens + Cloak should be interesting. Making SC2 blow multiple scans. Don't forget BW have a HUGE advantage up the ramp. And a terrible disadvantage bellow ramp. Also, you're afraid of burrowed banes? I will show you spider mines! Also, lockdown.... lockdown was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO good. Lock every siege tank? Lock Thors? I don't know, lock fucking everything!
Too bad ghosts are so outrageously high up in tech and cost in BW. :-/ Lockdown was a fantastic ability that never got used except in the late late late game and even then ghosts were terrible except for that ability (nukes were pretty bad and their concussive damage...ugh).
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This isn't a discussion. BW would absolutely demolish SC2 and this is an undisputed fact. Scarabs, Swarm, Plague, good Tanks, a strong Psi Storm, Cracklings, etc...
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in scbw settings, sc2 wins
4 gate anybody?
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On April 14 2011 13:38 Stratos_speAr wrote:
This isn't a discussion. BW would absolutely demolish SC2 and this is an undisputed fact. Scarabs, Swarm, Plague, good Tanks, a strong Psi Storm, Cracklings, etc...
SC2 has an answer to all those things.
Colossus colossus colossus colossus colossus colossus
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On April 14 2011 13:20 Jotoco wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 11:00 eviltomahawk wrote:
From the perspective of a TvT.
Siege tanks in BW had a range of 12. SC2 siege tanks have a range of 13. Plus, SC2 siege tanks have 160 health as opposed to the 150 health of BW siege tanks. In addition, SC2 siege tanks build 5 seconds faster than their BW counterparts, though at the cost of 25 more Gas. Although BW siege tanks do more siege damage and have bigger splash, SC2 siege tanks do compensate with better range and health.
Therefore, I think that in a standard Tank vs Tank would be quite interesting to watch as the SC2 tanks take advantage of their better range while the BW tanks take advantage of their better damage. These subtle differences should make all the difference in this mirror matchup.
Also, although Vulture are overall better units than Hellions, they can still be shut down quite hard by Marauders, which are basically the Terran version of the Dragoon, minus shields but with Concussive Shell. Vultures will barely tickle the tons of health and armor of the Marauder while being slowed down and torn apart by the Concussive Shells.
In addition, Vikings are much better AA than Goliaths. Although both do the same amount of base damage (20 for Goliaths and 10x2 = 20 for Vikings), Vikings also get a bonus against armored units, which makes them quite devastating against any Battlecruiser shenanigans from the BW faction. Couple with the fact that players can pump Vikings ridiculously fast out of reactored Starports, Vikings shut down BW airplay quite hard including Battlecruisers. In addition, whereas Goliath mobility was extremely limited since they are ground units with shitty pathfinding AI, Vikings suffer no such mobility issues since they are flyers. Also, Vikings work quite well with Siege Tank lines as spotters and mobile AA.
In addition, MULEs give SC2 Terran a huge early and late game advantage over BW Terran. Early game MULEs give SC2 Terrans the ability to amass a larger army more quickly, thus giving them the advantage in early game pressure. Late game during near-stalemate situations, a mass OC strategy gives the SC2 Terran a significant advantage in resource collection and food differential by allowing him to sacrifice his SCVs much earlier to free up more supply for a bigger army while maintaining ridiculous income with MULEs.
Also, Raven + Banshee can be an extremely potent combo when chipping away at tank lines. PDD can easily nullify missiles from Goliaths, Turrets, and Wraiths while the Banshee tears up Siege Tanks at a much faster rate than the Wraith's tiny airsoft guns. Do not forget about medics and firebats. Those should do fine against MMM. And Irradiate. That should melt MMM. Also. Blinding ravens + Cloak should be interesting. Making SC2 blow multiple scans. Don't forget BW have a HUGE advantage up the ramp. And a terrible disadvantage bellow ramp. Also, you're afraid of burrowed banes? I will show you spider mines! Also, lockdown.... lockdown was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO good. Lock every siege tank? Lock Thors? I don't know, lock fucking everything!
Though the Firebats would tear apart the SC2 Marines, Marauders are a completely different story. I'm not sure how the Marauder's armor type would translate into BW terms, but I assume that its Armored armor type means that Firebats will have a hard time dealing reduced damage against 100 hit points.
Though Irradiate will be extremely powerful against clumped MMM balls, the SC2 Terran should have decent Starport production by the time upgraded Science Vessels come into play. Vikings are pretty good at sniping air units, so it should be difficult for Vessels to come within the ridiculous range of the Viking. In addition, Ghosts vs Science Vessels should be an interesting dance of SC2 EMP, BW EMP, and Irradiate. The Science Vessels must be supported behind lines of Tanks and Goliaths to be safe from Ghosts and Vikings.
As far as the high ground advantage goes, I guess it really depends on how the hypothetical battle plays out. Dunno if it would be appropriate to apply BW high ground advantage only to BW units and SC2 highground mechanics to SC2 units.
And blinding Ravens would be an intriguing idea, though investing in medics and Blind would mean having a slightly smaller mech army. Plus, Auto-Turret and PDD are still pretty powerful spells, and using Seeker Missile against clumped Tanks is also an interesting idea.
Nevertheless, I do agree that mines would still be a bitch to deal with, though a mass OC strat would mean plenty of scans, assuming that the SC2 Terran lives that long.
As far as Lockdown goes, it would be pretty powerful but also pretty expensive and slow to tech all the way up to Ghost tech in BW, though Ghosts are ridiculously cheap in BW compared to SC2 Ghosts. However, SC2 Ghosts have over twice the health and deal twice the damage against light units, so they will win in a 1v1, no-micro battle against their BW counterparts. Plus, SC2 Ghosts can shut down BW Ghosts quite hard with Snipe and EMP. Nevertheless, Lockdown is fucking annoying to deal with anytime it's used, though it would be pretty funny if PDD also shoots down Lockdown missiles.
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On April 14 2011 13:46 MajorityofOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 13:38 Stratos_speAr wrote:
This isn't a discussion. BW would absolutely demolish SC2 and this is an undisputed fact. Scarabs, Swarm, Plague, good Tanks, a strong Psi Storm, Cracklings, etc... SC2 has an answer to all those things. Colossus colossus colossus colossus colossus colossus
As someone said before. All you need from BW is...
Lurker+defiler+scourge. kekekekekekeke
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Just port units into SC2 with same stats and test them out. In general sc1 would win though
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On April 14 2011 13:48 DragonDefonce wrote:
Just port units into SC2 with same stats and test them out. In general sc1 would win though
Those aren't Brood War units, they're SC2 units with Brood War stats. You need the engine.
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10387 Posts
On April 14 2011 13:46 MajorityofOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 13:38 Stratos_speAr wrote:
This isn't a discussion. BW would absolutely demolish SC2 and this is an undisputed fact. Scarabs, Swarm, Plague, good Tanks, a strong Psi Storm, Cracklings, etc... SC2 has an answer to all those things. Colossus colossus colossus colossus colossus colossus
Tanks, Scourge and Mind Control. yeeee...
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On April 14 2011 13:46 MajorityofOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 13:38 Stratos_speAr wrote:
This isn't a discussion. BW would absolutely demolish SC2 and this is an undisputed fact. Scarabs, Swarm, Plague, good Tanks, a strong Psi Storm, Cracklings, etc... SC2 has an answer to all those things. Colossus colossus colossus colossus colossus colossus
Scourge, Defiler, Tanks, Reavers, Mutalisks, Devourers, fuck, damn near everything would demolish a Colossus.
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Due to better pathfinding/grouping,it is easier to face dark swarm with your MMM army,though SC2 terran has no definite answer for defilers,due to the absence of irridiate,and ghosts are useless vs them due to consume.
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gotta go with sc2, mass voids and mothership :/
bw has cooler units for sure tho, reaver/shuttle and dark archon +archon ownage ftw.
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On April 14 2011 13:51 thoradycus wrote:
Due to better pathfinding/grouping,it is easier to face dark swarm with your MMM army,though SC2 terran has no definite awnser for defilers,due to the absent of irridiate,and ghosts are useless vs them due to cnsume.
I feel like part of that would make it harder since the units aren't spread out nearly as much, meaning more of them would clump up under the Swarm. Although the easier controlling does mean it's easier to avoid the Swarm.
gotta go with sc2, mass voids and mothership :/
bw has cooler units for sure tho, reaver/shuttle and dark archon +archon ownage ftw.
Would be rolled by Arbiters, Storms, Carriers, Hydras + Swarm, Scourge, Mutalisks, probably even Wraiths or mass Valkyries, mass Marines, etc. etc. etc. BW units are just simply more powerful, come out just as quickly as SC2 units, and are more cost-efficient.
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On April 14 2011 13:48 LuckyMacro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 13:46 MajorityofOne wrote:On April 14 2011 13:38 Stratos_speAr wrote:
This isn't a discussion. BW would absolutely demolish SC2 and this is an undisputed fact. Scarabs, Swarm, Plague, good Tanks, a strong Psi Storm, Cracklings, etc... SC2 has an answer to all those things. Colossus colossus colossus colossus colossus colossus As someone said before. All you need from BW is... Lurker+defiler+scourge. kekekekekekeke
I assume Dark Swarm wont matter to Colossus, it is linear splash like the lurker, so it won't prevent any damage nor mitigate it like Swarm does against tank shells and Reaver scarabs.
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On April 14 2011 13:53 RaiKageRyu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 13:48 LuckyMacro wrote:On April 14 2011 13:46 MajorityofOne wrote:On April 14 2011 13:38 Stratos_speAr wrote:
This isn't a discussion. BW would absolutely demolish SC2 and this is an undisputed fact. Scarabs, Swarm, Plague, good Tanks, a strong Psi Storm, Cracklings, etc... SC2 has an answer to all those things. Colossus colossus colossus colossus colossus colossus As someone said before. All you need from BW is... Lurker+defiler+scourge. kekekekekekeke I assume Dark Swarm wont matter to Colossus, it is linear splash like the lurker, so it won't prevent any damage nor mitigate it like Swarm does against tank shells and Reaver scarabs.
It matters because of the way it's linear.
Lurkers are vertical, while colossi are horizontal.
Swarm makes you miss one hex up when you shoot from something in towards the swarm.
Spines come from underground, colossi shots don't.
They would miss one hex up imo. :/
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BW wins convincingly, far more powerful abilities.
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Due to the nature of the size/shape of the protoss deathball in sc2,2-3 stasis can easily lock the whole army down,lol.
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On April 14 2011 09:54 CidO wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 09:47 BryanSC wrote:
BW would win because you could actually micro the units unlike SC2. So BW because you had to have skill ontop of skill. Skill in the game and skill to make up for the short falls and pathing issues that were in the game? That makes no sense. That comparison bluntly is retarded, if you compared any game in it's current state to it's previous or older one you would always choose the older one cause it's harder. At this point, it's like asking what is a better fruit, wine or potatoes. edit, let me spell it out for the people saying "HERP DERP BW WILL ALWAYS BE BETTER" and the other kids saying "NUUU SC2 IS BETTER YOU OLD GEEZER" Everyone loves potatoes, you can say it two different ways. Find me someone who hates potatoes and i'll find you a liar. Wine gets better with age. Guess which one is the wine and which one the potatoes.
when have bad harvest village have only potato and water no wine
please do not dig at night
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EPT
