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On April 02 2011 03:56 Clbull wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2011 03:24 awesomoecalypse wrote:On April 02 2011 02:43 Clbull wrote:
I think the whole e-sports scene is growing in North America only at the moment. The e-sports scene around the rest of the world still has a very, very, very long way to go before it becomes even close to mainstream.
To explain why, four major StarCraft II ongoing tournament series (I'm using the term 'ongoing tournament series' strictly here as they don't feel like proper leagues in the way that they're rather tournaments and not the round-robin "every player plays each other at least once" system that has been seen in most sports leagues) have popped up in NA in the past year.
- North American Star League (NASL) - The name and the fact that matches would be broadcasted "Live from Los Angeles" says it all.
- IGN Pro League (IPL)
- Major League Gaming (MLG) - Currently United States only although there are plans for expansion of the MLG franchise in Europe.
- TeamLiquid Star League (TSL) - More of an international event over the internet although it's more NA/EU sutable times and the fact that the finals will be played in New York.
Sure, the respective tournaments are accepting pros worldwide so you cannot argue that it's a league exclusive to North American players, but they still feel like American events in the same way that the Global Starcraft II League (GSL) feels like a Korean event due to its location (Seoul, South Korea) and broadcast times (Very early morning for US viewers and late morning for EU viewers). Plus the nature of some of their events (i.e. the world championship where a team of 8 Koreans take on 8 players from the rest of the world) suggests this too.
I wouldn't say e-Sports has yet come to a world stage, let alone even to a North American stage. The large scale events with gigantic prize pools are certainly there (NASL, possibly the IPL) but what about the mainstream media coverage and televisation of such events? So far, it has only happened in South Korea and more recently in Taiwan.
To reinforce what I mean, what even remotely major events are there for European audiences apart from the Dreamhack tournaments, the World Cyber Games and North American/Korean events. None.
Europe does not have a StarLeague, at least not on the scale of the likes of the GSL, NASL, possibly the IPL etc. I'd agree that fandom seems to be growing the most in the US. The biggest tournaments are all showing up here, and on teamliquid.net it seems anecdotally like a majority of posters are American (though hardly an overwhelming one). But in terms of top-level talent...europe is neck and neck with north america, and possibly ahead. Jinro, WhiteRa, Morrow, TLO....European players are not to be taken lightly. Don't get me wrong here. I wasn't saying anything negative about the European lineup of professional gamers we have here. In fact, many of my favourites are Europeans, namely Jinro, WhiteRa and (from my home country) DeMusliM. I think that Europe has the talent, but not quite the league and the fanbase yet.
This^ The diversity in europe is much greater as language barrier makes it a problem wheres the main languages here is English which most people nowadays should understand 100 million speakers in europe atleast. German where Germany alone has 85 million people and with Austria and Switzerland also speaking it but with a little different dialect makes it way over 100 million, then there's french people which is probably the most horrible english speakers/understand in europe with 65 million + and the eastern block with 100million + of Russia, Ukraine and Poland as the main nation.
And last the northern,scandinavia where we all have almost no problem speaking and understanding English. Which in the end probably means that creating a European Star League would be hardest because it has to be localised in all langauges :/
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On April 02 2011 04:40 Copymizer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2011 03:56 Clbull wrote:On April 02 2011 03:24 awesomoecalypse wrote:On April 02 2011 02:43 Clbull wrote:
I think the whole e-sports scene is growing in North America only at the moment. The e-sports scene around the rest of the world still has a very, very, very long way to go before it becomes even close to mainstream.
To explain why, four major StarCraft II ongoing tournament series (I'm using the term 'ongoing tournament series' strictly here as they don't feel like proper leagues in the way that they're rather tournaments and not the round-robin "every player plays each other at least once" system that has been seen in most sports leagues) have popped up in NA in the past year.
- North American Star League (NASL) - The name and the fact that matches would be broadcasted "Live from Los Angeles" says it all.
- IGN Pro League (IPL)
- Major League Gaming (MLG) - Currently United States only although there are plans for expansion of the MLG franchise in Europe.
- TeamLiquid Star League (TSL) - More of an international event over the internet although it's more NA/EU sutable times and the fact that the finals will be played in New York.
Sure, the respective tournaments are accepting pros worldwide so you cannot argue that it's a league exclusive to North American players, but they still feel like American events in the same way that the Global Starcraft II League (GSL) feels like a Korean event due to its location (Seoul, South Korea) and broadcast times (Very early morning for US viewers and late morning for EU viewers). Plus the nature of some of their events (i.e. the world championship where a team of 8 Koreans take on 8 players from the rest of the world) suggests this too.
I wouldn't say e-Sports has yet come to a world stage, let alone even to a North American stage. The large scale events with gigantic prize pools are certainly there (NASL, possibly the IPL) but what about the mainstream media coverage and televisation of such events? So far, it has only happened in South Korea and more recently in Taiwan.
To reinforce what I mean, what even remotely major events are there for European audiences apart from the Dreamhack tournaments, the World Cyber Games and North American/Korean events. None.
Europe does not have a StarLeague, at least not on the scale of the likes of the GSL, NASL, possibly the IPL etc. I'd agree that fandom seems to be growing the most in the US. The biggest tournaments are all showing up here, and on teamliquid.net it seems anecdotally like a majority of posters are American (though hardly an overwhelming one). But in terms of top-level talent...europe is neck and neck with north america, and possibly ahead. Jinro, WhiteRa, Morrow, TLO....European players are not to be taken lightly. Don't get me wrong here. I wasn't saying anything negative about the European lineup of professional gamers we have here. In fact, many of my favourites are Europeans, namely Jinro, WhiteRa and (from my home country) DeMusliM. I think that Europe has the talent, but not quite the league and the fanbase yet. This^ The diversity in europe is much greater as language barrier makes it a problem wheres the main languages here is English which most people nowadays should understand 100 million speakers in europe atleast. German where Germany alone has 85 million people and with Austria and Switzerland also speaking it but with a little different dialect makes it way over 100 million, then there's french people which is probably the most horrible english speakers/understand in europe with 65 million + and the eastern block with 100million + of Russia, Ukraine and Poland as the main nation. And last the northern,scandinavia where we all have almost no problem speaking and understanding English. Which in the end probably means that creating a European Star League would be hardest because it has to be localised in all langauges :/
They managed such a huge localization feat with unrelated things like the Eurovision Song Contest many years ago, although this was funded mainly by the European Broadcasting Union.
Plus aren't the World Cyber Games localized to some extent as well?
They also managed similarly with the GSL, by hiring an English commentary team consisting of none other than Artosis, Tasteless and a few others with a few translators. But then again, this was a league directly sponsored by Blizzard, partially to cement SC2's position as a dominant e-sport and as a way to get back at KeSPA.
What I'm saying is that if a European Star League (ESL perhaps?) were formed, then what would be needed are probably a commentary team for each language depending on the nations involved, plus a localized stream or televised broadcast for each nation.
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Twilight is still more popular than Starcraft.
Despite all of these advancements it's still a long road.
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I think we're close to doing what Day9 predicted!, 2011 is the year of Starcraft!!!
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On April 01 2011 14:37 Genome852 wrote:Good news. Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 14:07 jester- wrote:
I gotta agree about the viewership. I was floored when I watched the Ro32 TSL3 stream and saw it sky rocket ABOVE 50,000 viewers! This was on the HQ stream only! ... and I thought 20k viewers in HLTV back in the golden days of CS was huge.
HLTV had 50k for one CPL finals 
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Wow that article was amazing. Found all of that interesting. Also makes me respect Day9 now. I had no idea the roll he and his brother played in sc history. Amazing. Thanks for the link. Only an hour till mlg woop woop
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On April 01 2011 14:37 Zzoram wrote:
Here's to the hope that TSL3 finals hits 100,000 viewers on the stream.
Only 100k? We can do better than that! I think a million is a good goal to shoot for...maybe two.
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On April 01 2011 15:53 Velr wrote:
Just one thing.
SC2 is "big", for a game.
50k viewers for something that is broadcastet to basically the whole english speaking world in European primetime is not THAT staggering (well it is staggering for SC2, but it's not like SC2 is outbursting like crazy).
The analogies made in the, well written article, are also just stupid? Yes, 50k viewers are a big Soccer or whatever sports stadium, but he seems to forget the 1 Mil. people that view the games on TV...
I don't know about the views on Youtube but from 50k to being "BIG" is still a long way.
Not to mention that it is free and on the Internet. Numbers don't mean much then unless you're trying to lure advertisers. You will need a lot more than 50k to be supported entirely by ads.
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I read this article this morning.
Great job dude!
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Really enjoyed the article. I love that esports is finally becoming so mainstream. I think people will look back on this year and see it as the birth of esports. Granted people have been doing it for a while, but with the number of tournaments being played this year, the sheer sizes of the prize pools, and the seemingly big jump in esports fans I think this year is THE year.
Then again, I could just be too excited still from Day[9]'s speech about making esports a reality...haha.
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How many people watch a regular season hockey game? How about those world series of poker matches or bowling? I'd bet the number is significantly less than 50,000.
SC2 should be on ESPN instead of that stuff =D
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HIVE MIND LOVE MINDLORD ALWAYSB E FREE STARCRAFT THE TRUEST EXCEL OR NOT LOVE WILL REIGN BELIEVE IN TIME.
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On April 02 2011 07:53 Jonas  wrote:How many people watch a regular season hockey game? How about those world series of poker matches or bowling? I'd bet the number is significantly less than 50,000. SC2 should be on ESPN instead of that stuff =D
lmao sc2 on espn. That would be the shiz.
Well I wanted to post because I believe we should stop saying "dawn of esports" again. I am not saying not be happy that all these sponsorships are happening, but we should treat them individually, and not link all these cases as the beggining of esports (although it looks like it might be happening here one way or another). I just think its better to play it safe, cuz if this EVER backfires, we will feel very stupid. Lets just wait until 2 seasons of NASL and IGN leagues are done (TSL tournies will always work out cuz its the TL staff). I know the other leagues have TL members in it too, but i still think we should wait 2 seasons before we start saying esports is like in korea now.
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On April 02 2011 05:04 Clbull wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2011 04:40 Copymizer wrote:On April 02 2011 03:56 Clbull wrote:On April 02 2011 03:24 awesomoecalypse wrote:On April 02 2011 02:43 Clbull wrote:
I think the whole e-sports scene is growing in North America only at the moment. The e-sports scene around the rest of the world still has a very, very, very long way to go before it becomes even close to mainstream.
To explain why, four major StarCraft II ongoing tournament series (I'm using the term 'ongoing tournament series' strictly here as they don't feel like proper leagues in the way that they're rather tournaments and not the round-robin "every player plays each other at least once" system that has been seen in most sports leagues) have popped up in NA in the past year.
- North American Star League (NASL) - The name and the fact that matches would be broadcasted "Live from Los Angeles" says it all.
- IGN Pro League (IPL)
- Major League Gaming (MLG) - Currently United States only although there are plans for expansion of the MLG franchise in Europe.
- TeamLiquid Star League (TSL) - More of an international event over the internet although it's more NA/EU sutable times and the fact that the finals will be played in New York.
Sure, the respective tournaments are accepting pros worldwide so you cannot argue that it's a league exclusive to North American players, but they still feel like American events in the same way that the Global Starcraft II League (GSL) feels like a Korean event due to its location (Seoul, South Korea) and broadcast times (Very early morning for US viewers and late morning for EU viewers). Plus the nature of some of their events (i.e. the world championship where a team of 8 Koreans take on 8 players from the rest of the world) suggests this too.
I wouldn't say e-Sports has yet come to a world stage, let alone even to a North American stage. The large scale events with gigantic prize pools are certainly there (NASL, possibly the IPL) but what about the mainstream media coverage and televisation of such events? So far, it has only happened in South Korea and more recently in Taiwan.
To reinforce what I mean, what even remotely major events are there for European audiences apart from the Dreamhack tournaments, the World Cyber Games and North American/Korean events. None.
Europe does not have a StarLeague, at least not on the scale of the likes of the GSL, NASL, possibly the IPL etc. I'd agree that fandom seems to be growing the most in the US. The biggest tournaments are all showing up here, and on teamliquid.net it seems anecdotally like a majority of posters are American (though hardly an overwhelming one). But in terms of top-level talent...europe is neck and neck with north america, and possibly ahead. Jinro, WhiteRa, Morrow, TLO....European players are not to be taken lightly. Don't get me wrong here. I wasn't saying anything negative about the European lineup of professional gamers we have here. In fact, many of my favourites are Europeans, namely Jinro, WhiteRa and (from my home country) DeMusliM. I think that Europe has the talent, but not quite the league and the fanbase yet. This^ The diversity in europe is much greater as language barrier makes it a problem wheres the main languages here is English which most people nowadays should understand 100 million speakers in europe atleast. German where Germany alone has 85 million people and with Austria and Switzerland also speaking it but with a little different dialect makes it way over 100 million, then there's french people which is probably the most horrible english speakers/understand in europe with 65 million + and the eastern block with 100million + of Russia, Ukraine and Poland as the main nation. And last the northern,scandinavia where we all have almost no problem speaking and understanding English. Which in the end probably means that creating a European Star League would be hardest because it has to be localised in all langauges :/ They managed such a huge localization feat with unrelated things like the Eurovision Song Contest many years ago, although this was funded mainly by the European Broadcasting Union. Plus aren't the World Cyber Games localized to some extent as well? They also managed similarly with the GSL, by hiring an English commentary team consisting of none other than Artosis, Tasteless and a few others with a few translators. But then again, this was a league directly sponsored by Blizzard, partially to cement SC2's position as a dominant e-sport and as a way to get back at KeSPA. What I'm saying is that if a European Star League (ESL perhaps?) were formed, then what would be needed are probably a commentary team for each language depending on the nations involved, plus a localized stream or televised broadcast for each nation.
I think you just solved my doubt and questions in the last 3 lines Which actually shouldn't be that hard to do.
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On April 02 2011 08:16 Mahavishnu wrote:
HIVE MIND LOVE MINDLORD ALWAYSB E FREE STARCRAFT THE TRUEST EXCEL OR NOT LOVE WILL REIGN BELIEVE IN TIME.
... what the hell does that even mean?
Good article. I might just show this to some of my friends that think lowly of my interest in watching pro starcraft.
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Amazing article, I wish major newspapers and magazines would pick this up
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Dario 'TLO' Walsh (top of second page). Jinro and TLO, the merging has completed.
cool read though
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Good article, and I think Ars finding that we are really changing eSports is a great move from them. I think we have the power to move eSports forward. (as in we will be the main driving force) with event's like TSL3, GSL, MLG, IEM, NASL and possibly the new IGN tournament. The other regional tournament's are really getting more popular too - especially with the SEASL coming up.
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On April 01 2011 15:13 Clownz wrote:
The 50k viewers did only calculate the connections hooked up to the stream, the real number should be bigger. At least I was watching it with three friends.
I was also watching it on my big screen with several friends, beer, pizza, beef jerky, and chips. Was like NCAA football season
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EPT
