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Another opponent has whined to me that "Terran is imba, always make T1 units," I'm starting to wonder why people even think of units in terms of tiers.
For Zerg, it makes sense. Hatchery tech - T1, Lair - T2, and Hive - T3. What about for Terran? Would a starport be T3 (in that case, wouldn't medivacs be a tier 3 unit)? What about battlecruisers, T4? Wait, what's tier 4?
The game isn't balanced around tiers of units... SC has always been a game where units have purpose no matter how long a game goes. Every time I've been asked by a Protoss player to "stop making tier 1 units," I ask them if they should stop making zealot/stalker/sentry.
Tiers really only apply to Zerg, so why do people throw the term around so much for P and T?
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Its the WoW effect spreading to sc2.
User was warned for this post
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It's yet another ridiculously stupid part of balance discussion & a way to generalize groups of units for the sake of simplicity (you'll immediately think of a bunch of Void Rays & Colossus when a caster says something like "the Protoss army consists of mostly tier 3 units").
As far as the balance discussion side of the term is concerned, I don't pay much heed to it.
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On April 01 2011 01:50 deerpark87 wrote:
Its the WoW effect spreading to sc2.
tiers were used in BW, how do you justify that?
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its just another way to complain about the game. people always look for excuses as to why they lost rather than looking at their own play and trying to find ways to improve their own game.
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United States7483 Posts
There is literally no point to it. Units don't even remain the same units throughout the course of the game: there is a massive difference between roaches and speed roaches for example, and people even refer to zerglings with different names based on upgrades (speedlings, cracklings).
It's essentially meaningless.
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On April 01 2011 01:51 HelloSon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 01:50 deerpark87 wrote:
Its the WoW effect spreading to sc2. tiers were used in BW, how do you justify that?
not really, its from wc3
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its pretty easy to tell with Protoss and terran too
tier 1 is buildings that require only minerals
tier 2 requires gas (starport robo council, factory starport)
Tier 3 requires an additional building (fleet beacon, support bay, armory, fusion core)
its very clearly divided ^^
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Because they're not too bright? It's a great flag to ignore anything that poster says.
As for where it's from, the concept of tiers in RTS games started with, uh, Dune maybe? It's always been around.
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It's from wc2/wc3 and it doesn't work really well in the starcraft universe, so people should stop using it.
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Yes, yes, we know. Tiers don't really exist. This has been talked to death before and this thread is unlikely to change much. It's just useful shorthand for low/middle/high tech.
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On April 01 2011 01:55 TheBB wrote:
Yes, yes, we know. Tiers don't really exist. This has been talked to death before and this thread is unlikely to change much. It's just useful shorthand for low/middle/high tech.
I'd say this as well. Treating them as WoW tiers, as someone suggested isn't comparable/realistic/the case.
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On April 01 2011 01:54 lcl wrote:
its pretty easy to tell with Protoss and terran too
tier 1 is buildings that require only minerals
tier 2 requires gas (starport robo council, factory starport)
Tier 3 requires an additional building (fleet beacon, support bay, armory, fusion core)
its very clearly divided ^^ So hellions are the same tier as RAVENS?
And thors are higher tier than ravens? Makes no sense, ravens need as much tech as thors
Tiers make no sense, especially not when comparing different races. One base thor and one base colossus are quite viable, one base ultra is impossible,even two base ultra is. Ultras have a lot longer a tech route same with brood lords.
BC's, carriers, brood lords, ultras, are true late game units, thors and colossi can be fielded from one base.
To say that thors are the same tier as BC's is also nonsense, BC's are obviously higher.
And that doesn't even account for the fact that a chargelot is a completely different unit than a zealot, same with burrowed roaches..
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Tiers work for Zerg, nothing else. Not sure how it bled over into the other races, because it doesn't work at all.
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On April 01 2011 02:02 mousepad wrote:
Tiers work for Zerg, nothing else. Not sure how it bled over into the other races, because it doesn't work at all.
I have to agree with this for the most part. The logic of "tiers" as it applies to zerg loses its effectiveness when, say, you talk about marines. If 3rd tier units are always supposed to be superior to 1st tier units in terms of attack/defense/cost effectiveness, then marines wouldn't at all be a viable late-game unit itself. This is obviously not the case, since stimmed marines with medivacs and good micro is good in any stage of a game (early/mid/late).
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I've had this shit from a P, same phrase "still only on T1 units, and you win, pathetic etc" when in fact I was using a lot of ghosts and some vikings with 2-1 upgrades against his colo/void/phoenix heavy army.
I'm just pissed off how almost NOBODY I've meet on EU have actually played BW for years before SC2, like old BW veterans are just a forgotten relic now 
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On April 01 2011 01:55 TheBB wrote:
Yes, yes, we know. Tiers don't really exist. This has been talked to death before and this thread is unlikely to change much. It's just useful shorthand for low/middle/high tech.
And to boot, it's been closed numerous times for it's pointlessness.
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Any stratergy game where Tier 1 becomes useless once Tier 2 gets out is broken in almost every way possible. Tiers do not exist, only longer tech paths.
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They don't/shouldn't. It's just a way of describing where your tech is generally at; completely arbitrary and meaningless otherwise.
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On April 01 2011 02:01 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 01:54 lcl wrote:
its pretty easy to tell with Protoss and terran too
tier 1 is buildings that require only minerals
tier 2 requires gas (starport robo council, factory starport)
Tier 3 requires an additional building (fleet beacon, support bay, armory, fusion core)
its very clearly divided ^^ So hellions are the same tier as RAVENS? And thors are higher tier than ravens? Makes no sense, ravens need as much tech as thors Tiers make no sense, especially not when comparing different races. One base thor and one base colossus are quite viable, one base ultra is impossible,even two base ultra is. Ultras have a lot longer a tech route same with brood lords. BC's, carriers, brood lords, ultras, are true late game units, thors and colossi can be fielded from one base. To say that thors are the same tier as BC's is also nonsense, BC's are obviously higher. And that doesn't even account for the fact that a chargelot is a completely different unit than a zealot, same with burrowed roaches..
Ravens require tech lab, hence its tier 3. Medivac/Viking - tier 2.
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EPT
