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The Close Spawning Position [poll] - Page 19

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Prev 1 17 18 19 20 21 28 Next All
2WeaK
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada550 Posts
June 17 2011 04:09 GMT
#361
I don't think cross pos should be removed, map pool should just be changed and not have the issue with "close positions" anymore. >.> I don't play competitively, mostly for fun I don't mind losing to cheese and all that, so I guess it doesn't affect me... But I don't like the competitive maps where you know you always have "safe expansions" or always expanding away from your opponent, it gets kind of redundant. >.>
rdr
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden48 Posts
June 17 2011 04:18 GMT
#362
Agreed they should remove them, less skill with close positions overall i think.
me_viet
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Australia1350 Posts
June 17 2011 04:48 GMT
#363
I don't know any all-ins so yea, remove close-pos.
Shebuha
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1335 Posts
June 17 2011 04:55 GMT
#364
I feel that all 4p ladder maps should be in the style of tal'darim altar, backwater gulch, and typhon peaks. No close positions by ground or air. All positions should be close to equal distances from main to main.

It's only logical if a build or style gets favoured in a particular position. Like on Crevasse, where Terran spawns so that he is close to Zerg's natural and does drop play based on that, or whatever. But imho it's unacceptable for a map to have close positions, especially by ground because it gives players less time to react and prepare, especially Zerg, who has the larvae mechanic, presenting him with a brutal choice.

I mean, as Protoss, I see a push coming, and let's say it is close pos metalopolis. I chrono my warpates and get as many units as possible before it gets to me. I position my units and get ready to forcefield.

As Zerg, I see it coming, and I go, "shit, I just made 3 drones, so I'll have 6 less zerglings, and my zerglings are going to pop as he gets to me, so I can't do a flank, or position myself, and I don't have time for spine crawlers or queens, which are two of my three effective early game defense tools."

skrzmark
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1528 Posts
June 17 2011 04:56 GMT
#365
Should we remove cross position? Honestly I never see a Terran win late game against a Zerg. This is really stupid...
We got them GOM TvT's and them mlGG's
MindBreaker
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States574 Posts
June 17 2011 04:59 GMT
#366
I hate close positions. But then again being zerg i might be biased im a macro zerg at heart. Idra is my hero in that aspect!
Is it weird that I play most of my online games at work? And that it's a pizza place??
me_viet
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Australia1350 Posts
June 17 2011 05:00 GMT
#367
On June 17 2011 13:56 skrzmark wrote:
Should we remove cross position? Honestly I never see a Terran win late game against a Zerg. This is really stupid...


You don't watch enough Starcraft then.

I suggest subscribing to any of GSL/MLG/NASL to see some epic Terran pwnage =]
skrzmark
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1528 Posts
June 17 2011 05:02 GMT
#368
I watch all of those... I just watched Morrow v Nada in NASL playoffs which made me type my rant. I'm not Terran either.
We got them GOM TvT's and them mlGG's
Treva
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States533 Posts
June 17 2011 05:03 GMT
#369
I don't mind close spawns because at least in tvt and tvp you can see some unique play. But with how the maps have been made so far I wouldn't be surprised if next season's maps are all forced cross spawns with depots everywhere and giant nets surrounding bases so no air can pass in.
Live it up.
Angra
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2652 Posts
June 17 2011 05:08 GMT
#370
The reason this is even a problem to begin with is because Blizzard keeps stupidly designing their 4-player maps on an angle. If they just put the 4 start locations in the 4 corners of the map (like every single 4 player BW map that was good) there wouldn't even be a problem.
Amaterasu1234
Profile Joined November 2010
United States317 Posts
June 17 2011 05:10 GMT
#371
Close positions on ZvT/P on Shattered is simply stupid and that's why I said they should get rid of close positions! I'm tired of them taking their third at that corner base...and I can't do anything about it.

Otherwise, I do think close positions are fine. It does create a different state of game as opposed to proxy positions or cross that I enjoy when I'm not losing to something abusive.
MethodSC
Profile Joined December 2010
United States928 Posts
June 17 2011 05:26 GMT
#372
Statistics for people that voted No:
90% Terran
10% Protoss
100% Platinum League or below
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
June 17 2011 05:29 GMT
#373
On March 30 2011 08:26 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I want to ask, what difference does close or cross positions on shattered temple make in zvp? As a protoss I'll have a close pylon anyways. I'm personally really enjoy close positions so I'm againsts it... I think it's fine - Until you're top top masters a push arriving 5-10 seconds earlier would have killed you either way and it's way overdone.

If you have such a problem, don't play those maps.


The further away the enemy base is, the easier it is to stop your proxy pylon from going down, since it takes more time for your probe to get there and drop it, and for the guarding zealot/stalker to traverse the map, and gives them more time to scout the incoming units and react. If I leave a zergling outside your base, and see the zealot/stalker coming, and I immediately start making, let's say roaches, the longer it takes for you to get that pylon down and reach my base, the more time I have to make sure my roaches finish, let queen injects finish, make more roaches, and get spine crawlers down.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
shr0ud
Profile Joined April 2011
Finland222 Posts
June 17 2011 05:45 GMT
#374
On June 17 2011 14:26 MethodSC wrote:
Statistics for people that voted No:
90% Terran
10% Protoss
100% Platinum League or below

Well obviously this change would hurt terran because it makes early game aggression less viable, which is absolutely vital in TvZ. Do zerg players really think that terran has as good of a chance as zerg to win the game lategame by macro alone? See mlg columbus, the tournament had the biggest saturation of 'macro' (hint: zerg favoured) maps and 5 of the top 8 finishers were zerg, 2 protoss and 1 terran. I'm not against long games by any means, but implementation of this would severely handicap terran in TvZ, which is already zerg favoured in the current metagame.
StephanLindner60311
Profile Joined May 2011
10 Posts
June 17 2011 05:53 GMT
#375
They shouldn't change it all the time. It is really hard to get used to all different settings on all different kinds of maps. U never know whether close spawn is in the cards or not
Winner takes it all
Soluhwin
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1287 Posts
June 17 2011 05:54 GMT
#376
On June 17 2011 14:45 shr0ud wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2011 14:26 MethodSC wrote:
Statistics for people that voted No:
90% Terran
10% Protoss
100% Platinum League or below

Well obviously this change would hurt terran because it makes early game aggression less viable, which is absolutely vital in TvZ. Do zerg players really think that terran has as good of a chance as zerg to win the game lategame by macro alone? See mlg columbus, the tournament had the biggest saturation of 'macro' (hint: zerg favoured) maps and 5 of the top 8 finishers were zerg, 2 protoss and 1 terran. I'm not against long games by any means, but implementation of this would severely handicap terran in TvZ, which is already zerg favoured in the current metagame.


Regardless or cross or close:
2rax still forces speedlings
blue hellion openers still force roaches
banshee openers still force queens/spores
The point of early aggression is in no way to kill the opponent, it's to force them to not do what they want. And since your using recent tournys as evidence rather than sense, shall we have a look at what people are calling gomtvtvtvtvt?

Who bumped this 2 month old thread to bring back this discussion?
+ Show Spoiler +
oh wait I guess I'm part of the problem now...
I put the sexy in dyslexia.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
June 17 2011 06:07 GMT
#377
I voted no. While I can see your argument, I think restricting spawning positions to cross positions isn't a great idea because early harass doesn't become as effective, scouting wouldn't be needed in certain cases since you can deduce where your opponent is and there is less variety. Basically, I feel it gimps the game because you are eliminating yet another factor that makes the game exciting.

I've spawned close positions in a ZvsT on meta before. I was at 12, he was at 9. He kept sending marine waves, one after another. I was able to hold him off but lost my exp. I managed to get a bane nest after defeating one of his waves and was able to get some banes to hit his marine ball and moped up the rest using slings. Eventually, I bane busted and won the game. It was tough but it was also a lot of fun. Being on the edge of losing then coming back to win the game is a truly remarkable experience and I'm sure that's a game I won't be forgetting anytime soon
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Starcraftmazter
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia71 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-17 06:36:37
June 17 2011 06:35 GMT
#378
Only if they eliminate cross/long positions as well. Otherwise it's just unfair race favouritism. TvZ cross positions metal is pretty much impossible, even MKP said it in an interview a couple of months back when asked whether close positions are advantageous to terran.
elixir_gum
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States82 Posts
June 17 2011 06:38 GMT
#379
On June 17 2011 15:07 BigFan wrote:
I voted no. While I can see your argument, I think restricting spawning positions to cross positions isn't a great idea because early harass doesn't become as effective, scouting wouldn't be needed in certain cases since you can deduce where your opponent is and there is less variety. Basically, I feel it gimps the game because you are eliminating yet another factor that makes the game exciting.

I've spawned close positions in a ZvsT on meta before. I was at 12, he was at 9. He kept sending marine waves, one after another. I was able to hold him off but lost my exp. I managed to get a bane nest after defeating one of his waves and was able to get some banes to hit his marine ball and moped up the rest using slings. Eventually, I bane busted and won the game. It was tough but it was also a lot of fun. Being on the edge of losing then coming back to win the game is a truly remarkable experience and I'm sure that's a game I won't be forgetting anytime soon


all i got from this was the terran had to make a mistake for the zerg to win on close positions
i only hotkey up to 3 NA server: Elixir#940
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
June 17 2011 06:50 GMT
#380
Close positions are necessary, it's just that we need maps where close pos rush distance isn't 5 seconds. Not that hard blizzard, really...
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