EPTIf you asked me this about brood war though I will say that absolutely there's a talent portion that is involved in it. If you asked me to replicate jaedong mutalisk micro even after years of training I would still say that you're crazy and that I'll never be able to do that.
Is SC skill natural or trained? - Page 18
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Zerksys
United States569 Posts
If you asked me this about brood war though I will say that absolutely there's a talent portion that is involved in it. If you asked me to replicate jaedong mutalisk micro even after years of training I would still say that you're crazy and that I'll never be able to do that. | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
On October 08 2011 00:38 ishboh wrote: I am high diamond, and I have not played THAT much sc2. granted, my skill is still completely terrible compared to professionals, but i think that there is definitely an innate ability to play video games. if you took me and put me in front of a completely new video game and I had to play my dad...i would win hands down (unless maybe the game was a surgery game or something as he is a doctor). when it comes to sc2, i believe my brother plays more of it than me, i think that I just have more natural talent than him and can still beat him on a regular basis My brother used to have more talent than me in games then I started practicing really hard. I now beat him in all games we play (new and old) except chess. | ||
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
StarCraft skill is trained. Nobody can naturally have perfect builds without spending time to perfect them. Nobody can have perfect timing attacks without knowing when to do it. Some can learn the game fast but that's only after others have already figured it out. You can do this by watching replays and learning different styles. But, this too takes "time" and is not natural. The only time I could see a skill "being natural" is if your playing a different game and you learned all your fundamentals from a previous game. Such as, SC1 players switching to SC2. | ||
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ovnell
Sweden61 Posts
On the other hand, I don't really think it matters. If you wanna get better at the game the only thing you can do to improve is to play more. | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
On October 08 2011 00:12 OutlaW- wrote: ''talent'' is in my opinion just a myth thats caused by some people learning faster than others, which has to do with intelligence if u work harder and use your time more effectively you'll eventually surpass anyone This is pretty much spot on. Talent and intelligence are just words we use to describe how quickly somebody learns. When you have a natural "talent" or a trained "talent" from playing other games, that talent transfers into SC2 in the form of allowing you to learn more in a shorter amount of time, and possibly retain more information in your long-term memory. Keep in mind, even something like high APM or high accuracy is a learned skill, but some people learn much faster than others. | ||
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wishbones
Canada2600 Posts
ill edit this and add a bit more info: those epic artists on youtube, had they drew only a few pictures, would not be good anymore. hence they trained. musicians had they play for only 1 year, would not be good anymore. its the way all things work. HUMANS ARE FANTASTIC CREATURES. with hands not paws. and a brain that can communicate multiple languages and omg i cant even fathom it. its too complex. but were all trained not born with it. edit2: wait now i know why there are so many pages, scratch everything i said. Some parts of each individuals brains can process certain types of info so much more than the guy sitting next to him. While it works both ways for both sides, I think some skills we are born with, but will never know until we touch that certain thing, but yeah i guess for sc its trained.Then again though, it requires specific sectors of the brain also, so im sure people with stronger brain power on those areas that starcraft lights up have faster and more further progress in an sc career. but NO FACTS NO PROOF! <3 | ||
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s4life
Peru1519 Posts
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unit
United States2621 Posts
in high school i decided to take up the saxophone my sophmore year (had played guitar, piano, bass, in the past but never a wind instrument) within a month i was able to play pieces on a similar level to the best in the school...why was this? natural talent? no i worked my ass off to get good, i spent all of my free time that month figuring out how everything worked and just repeating fundamentals like a madman til my fingers started going numb (something i'll need to do again when i get my hands on a new sax, dont have one atm T_T) in sc:bw when i learned about it from my friends, i found the game so compellingly fun that i started practicing and thinking through what i wanted to do and how to do it (i.e. builds) and i managed to quickly become the favored player in any game between us...ofc thats before i found iccup/tl.net and really played competetively (though i never went as far as i could've, only barely peaked at C and that was when i was putting around 3hrs/day in for genuine practice) was this talent? no it was simply me thinking through the game more than my friends (also i played zerg when i started so no P "imba" 1a2a3a at low level for me :3) in sc2 im mid/high masters (im around 1k atm with somewhere around 2-300 bp) despite putting rather little time into the game ever, is this talent? no its just bw skills carrying over xD in chess back in middle school (pre-starcraft) i've won numerous local amatuer tournaments (no prize, just trophy/badge) this isn't the result of natural talent, it was just the result of playing a Bo5 of chess against my dad every day since i was 5 (really want to start that up again T_T; i miss playing with a win/loss ratio of 1:1000...for reference to his skill, he doesnt really play a lot anymore so he doesnt have an elo but he like chessmaster and crushes the grandmaster setting in it quite easily) anyway, almost forgot the point of this lol talent is only an illusion, caused by hard work, sometimes previous work from years ago, but hard work nonetheless...nothing in life can be achieved without hard work, whether you believe in talent or not, for the talented to be successful even they need to work for it...current sc2 example, Liquid'Tyler he has such an affinity for the game (caused by previous experience w/bw and his thought processes regarding how to improve) yet when he doesn't play for whatever reason he can't win TT | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16387 Posts
On October 08 2011 01:33 unit wrote: to me, talent is a illusion created by hard work behind the scenes and proper practice do you know how many hard core alcoholics and substance abusers have the natural ability to hit a 99 mile an hour fastball with no practise at all ? I'll give you 1 very well documented example: former Yankee, Blue Jay, Astro, Cub, Indian CLIFF JOHNSON. every hitter has an "upper limit" in the speed of pitch they can hit. once u go beyond that speed the player is guessing... i was one of the best players on my baseball team ( keep in mind i'm in canada where baseball is not taken seriously) and i simply can not hit a ball that goes over 90 MPH... for many of my friends who were extremely competitive and practised hitting a lot their maximum speed was much lower... like 86 MPH .. or 82 MPH... and i watched my friends drop out of baseball 1 by 1 as pitchers threw harder and harder and their ability to make contact diminished regardless of how much they practised. and of course by the time i was 18 ... any pitcher able to crank it up over 90 MPH was simply unhittable for me. MLB is filled with lazy guys who happen to be the 1 out of 10,000 that can hit a 99 MPH fast ball. Go to a batting cage and try for urself. | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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VPCursed
1044 Posts
On March 23 2011 06:31 darthdiddy wrote: When you do something for long enough, the physical structure of your brain changes. It's called neuroplasticity. With enough time, and dedication, your brain can be trained to do just about anything. Some people are capable of learning more complex things more quickly. Thats just about the only thing that can be chalked up to the nature side of the argument. Nurture beats nature any day in my opinion. thanks for being the only person in this thread with some actual knowledge and not mindlessly saying TALENT DERP. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16387 Posts
On October 08 2011 02:30 VPCursed wrote: thanks for being the only person in this thread with some actual knowledge and not mindlessly saying TALENT DERP. ya... that's why as u get older your ability to hit the 4 seam fastball diminishes.. because its all about practise. | ||
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VPCursed
1044 Posts
On October 08 2011 02:38 JimmyJRaynor wrote: ya... that's why as u get older your ability to hit the 4 seam fastball diminishes.. because its all about practise. just like how nestea got older and stopped winning tounaments. oh wait. dont reference SC and baseball. | ||
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SoKHo
Korea (South)1081 Posts
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Rachnar
France1526 Posts
If you look at player's who have innovated and created new metagames and stuff, they were the best originally thx to their talent, but overshadowed after by others practicing hard and being able to replicate it better MC was ahead of everyone a few month's ago, Fruitdealer at the first's GSL, now he's completly lost everything he had, etc /// | ||
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awu25
United States2003 Posts
On October 08 2011 00:57 wishbones wrote: all skills are trained in life, your not born with any. how come so many pages for this T_T ill edit this and add a bit more info: those epic artists on youtube, had they drew only a few pictures, would not be good anymore. hence they trained. musicians had they play for only 1 year, would not be good anymore. its the way all things work. HUMANS ARE FANTASTIC CREATURES. with hands not paws. and a brain that can communicate multiple languages and omg i cant even fathom it. its too complex. but were all trained not born with it. edit2: wait now i know why there are so many pages, scratch everything i said. Some parts of each individuals brains can process certain types of info so much more than the guy sitting next to him. While it works both ways for both sides, I think some skills we are born with, but will never know until we touch that certain thing, but yeah i guess for sc its trained.Then again though, it requires specific sectors of the brain also, so im sure people with stronger brain power on those areas that starcraft lights up have faster and more further progress in an sc career. but NO FACTS NO PROOF! <3 Some people are born with perfect pitch in their ears and therefore are naturally better at instruments | ||
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koolaid1990
831 Posts
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Xercen
United Kingdom375 Posts
2) you need to be intelligent and make well informed decisions. There is a reason why a ton of bronze players are still in bronze and a ton of platinum players still in plat after many games for a reason! Not everybody can become a rocket scientist regardless of how much they study. 3) you need to have a formidable amount of mental strength. To take an example from tennis. Novak djokovic. He had the skills but now he has the mental strength and this has been shown in the way he has manhandled rafael nadal. | ||
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Sighstorm
Netherlands116 Posts
On October 08 2011 02:52 awu25 wrote: Some people are born with perfect pitch in their ears and therefore are naturally better at instruments On that note... there is a tv documentary about musician Vanessa-Mae in which she explores this very topic. It might be the best thing i've seen that delves into this nature versus nurture discussion. I think it applies to other stuff like sports and games just as much. Her conclusion was that it's a combination of both (no surprise). It's called "Vanessa-Mae: the Making of Me" by the BBC. I recommend it if your interested in this topic. | ||
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