Abilities that nullify micro - Good or bad? - Page 22

On March 21 2011 05:07 aka_star wrote:
Make FF non castable on creep.... zergs will creep ramp asap to deny the 1 FF garbish and Protoss will not be able to rush to the front of zergs base and FF off a group of roaches to slaughter with his ball.

On March 21 2011 05:29 freetgy wrote:


and how is protoss supposed work when creep is spreaded half across the map to your base...that's makes no sense.

On March 21 2011 05:52 Oceaniax wrote:
Use your observer and some units to push the creep back?

On March 21 2011 04:24 Juddas wrote:
I've always thought it would be a better game mechanic if they were to just make forcefield an AOE spell that slows like 75% and buffed guardian shield balancing the sentry

On March 21 2011 03:17 Kallo wrote:
I think I just had a pretty sick idea on how to fix the issue of forcefield without giving up the early game survivability of toss. Give sentries DISRUPTION WEB from BW. Yes, at first this sounds silly but think about it.

If a zerg tries to bust a toss in any way early game, he can throw down disruption webs to stay alive till more units come out (the duration and energy cost would have to be tweaked of course). BUT! The big thing this would fix is that it would not allow a toss to prevent a zerg from getting down his ramp, it would just screw up his roaches and zerglings from doing any damage to your army, however, it also allows the zerg to micro against like dodging storms.

This would allow for tense early game battles that don't wind up extremely one sided. and would probably allow for more macro games because games wouldn't end up with toss just FF raping a zerg in his base all the time.

On March 21 2011 02:57 thegamer wrote:
IMO, I think that FFs are necessary as a defensive measure to block ramps,
because protoss has no early defensive structures early on. Terrans can get bunkers
and zergs can get spine crawlers and have fast unit production. Protoss cannot get photon
cannons unless they invest in a forge early on.

But I also think that the tactical advantage of FFs in large battles, especially in higher
skill levels is a bit too powerful. Toss players usually get about 5 sentries early on and pool
a ton of energy so they can cast like 15 FFs instantaneously later on. This effectively traps
half the opponents units and gives the protoss a free victory if done correctly.

That said, here are are my possible options to reduce the tactical advantage while also
maintaining its defensive advantages:
-Make a cooldown for FFs like psionic storm. FFs last pretty long so making it cooldown would not hurt its ability to block ramps. But it will prevent toss from instantaneously casting a bazillion FFs and leaving the opponent with nothing they can do.
-Make the cast range shorter. This can also block ramps but will make it harder to use in large battles.
-Remove its ability to displace units. This can block ramps, but it cannot split an enemy in half. This might be too big of a nerf, so it might be reasonable to buff it a little bit too.
-Make FF breakers more accessible; all the massive ground units that can break FFs are higher tier units that are harder to get. Terrans can get thors in tier 2 which is reasonable, but they are so immobile and such a large investment that they will hinder the army a lot. For example, making a queen a FF breaker would allow it to step cover zerg ramps to prevent reinforcements against a 4 gate.

BTW, for the toss players whining that good FFs are hard to execute, and thus should not be nerfed to reward skill, WE SERIOUSLY DO NOT GIVE A FUCK!! Nobody cares about the bronze level games that you play. If u cannot FF properly u can just get better and learn to FF properly. On the other hand, at higher levels tosses FF perfectly almost every single time, and making it impossible to avoid is just ridiculous.

On March 21 2011 02:56 emidanRKO wrote:
I have seen hundreds of protoss players at all levels do decent forcefields - its NOT hard to do really good forcefields, the difference is MC specifically practices forcefield placements and has mastered it. Eventually, people will do the same and be at that skill level, and that will lead to unbalanced matches where people are just using abusive strats because of forcefield.

The thing about marine micro is that I have almost never seen anyone besides the best terrans in the world and very other few high APM players do ridiculously good marine splits. I personally can do amazing marine micro, and it took me days of losing to zerg because I could not split marines as good as MKP or MVP. I even have 250~ apm average, which is just as high as those guys.

No matter what, there will never be a time where every good terran player is an amazing marine splitter. However, there will be a time where all the good protoss players have learned to do really good and abusive forcefields and that will break the game too much.

Concussive shells doesnt prevent micro...it only helps to maybe 1-2 units from retreating extremely easily from an entire army. If that didn't exist, it would be retarded how easy it is to have your mistakes with micro not punish you at all in the early game. You would be able to retreat units so easily that it would be a joke.

Fungal growth IMO should've became a missile again. It causes for more exciting and preemptive use and probably intense micro from both players. However, not being able to move obviously means no micro which is dumb. Change it to a slow effect and fungal with the new change will be great.

On March 21 2011 01:43 HigoSeco wrote:
it would be nice if they made the queen a massive unit so it could stomp over the ff. It'd help with ramp blocking but wouldn't render ff completely useless

On March 21 2011 01:47 S.O.L.I.D. wrote:


If FF isn't difficult to cast I'd love to watch a replay of you doing MC forcefields. Yeah it's not the same as MKP micro but they still require skill especially since sentries are never the only unit in the army and you have to micro other units as well. Like someone said before, if GOOD forcefield casts were really that easy, why can't everyone do it? I've seen pros mess up forcefields.

I do think that giving FF's life might be interesting, but I don't know how much life would be viable. I think it would have to be something that could still negate early Terran pushes but also something that would still have some use in the mid game and late game. I think that if they were given health, the ability of massive units to break them instantly should be removed.

On March 21 2011 06:49 Rashid wrote:
Protoss units require micro? Besides sentries and HTs, the entire Protoss army is all about the A-move.

FF isn't hard, or at least it isn't hard compared to all the various micro tricks Terran is forced to pull off just to be on even ground with brotoss.

On March 21 2011 07:14 freetgy wrote:


kidding me gold level?
protoss is all about micro and positioning (watch pvp...every single unit counts)

Micro and positioning is what makes you compete against M&M

what incredible micro has Terran to do?
stutter step? one of the easiest tricks micro moves to do thanks to Shells in the game
drops?

the only thing that might come as hard is to know when to stim and when not.
but that is mastered pretty fast.

kidding me gold level?
protoss is all about micro

On March 21 2011 08:12 DropDown wrote:


yeah except protoss' "micro" actually micros my fucking units, in a negative way, against my will.

On March 21 2011 08:08 DoubleReed wrote:
Chill out guys. I'm pretty sure moderators don't like stupid "my race is more micro than your race" arguments.

Though I am a little confused by Rashid. I mean it's almost universally claimed that bio > gateway units. So I don't know what you mean by needing micro tricks to stay above. Maybe to stay above forcefield, but that means it coming down to who has the best micro. So that's a good thing.

But again, I don't see these elements as "nullifying micro" so much as being very punishing to mistakes. Baiting FF is micro. Focus-Fire is micro. Surrounding with lings is micro...

On March 20 2011 13:20 CookieMaker wrote:
One word about FF's: Ultras.

-->try them. shockingly good synergy with roach/hydra

On March 21 2011 10:20 tchan wrote:

Yeah i heard ultra's are pretty good at stopping the 4 warp gate push.