EPTAbilities that nullify micro - Good or bad? - Page 21
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HigoSeco
Chile232 Posts
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S.O.L.I.D.
United States792 Posts
On March 19 2011 19:08 ShotoElite wrote: I beg to differ, casting forcefields is NOT difficult and is in no way similar to marine king splitting marines. Forcefield is definitely a very powerful spell but there are ways to negate it. Blizzard addressed some of the concerns by making massive units break them, but i say why stop at that? EMP should break it as well as fungals, maybe even storms. I think this idea would be incredibly effective and would require more dynamic play. Other than using abilities and size of units to stop forcefield, there are tons of ways that i think you could get around it. Burrow move is a known work around for zerg, terran can use medivacs to pick up units trapped around FF and carry them out, but im not sure how plausible this is. I have a cool idea though: What about even making FF's have life so that you can attack it and 'break' the forcefield? If FF isn't difficult to cast I'd love to watch a replay of you doing MC forcefields. Yeah it's not the same as MKP micro but they still require skill especially since sentries are never the only unit in the army and you have to micro other units as well. Like someone said before, if GOOD forcefield casts were really that easy, why can't everyone do it? I've seen pros mess up forcefields. I do think that giving FF's life might be interesting, but I don't know how much life would be viable. I think it would have to be something that could still negate early Terran pushes but also something that would still have some use in the mid game and late game. I think that if they were given health, the ability of massive units to break them instantly should be removed. | ||
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HoT
United States69 Posts
On March 20 2011 13:21 Angra wrote: Regardless of how you can or can't beat it, is it even fun at all to watch or play? I really don't think so. I mean look at the ways to beat these mechanics that you just said: "avoid engaging" in two different situations. How does that make for an exciting esport at all? That's why you see GSL matches end up with two armies camped at naturals for 20 minutes, instead of 20 minutes of exciting skirmishes and movement all across the map. I totally agree, honestly think why i like broodwar better atm. I cant stand 20min of people jus macroing....zzzzzzzz makes this esport soo lame to watch/play no doubt. almost makes me want to play g dub again | ||
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Striding Strider
United Kingdom787 Posts
On March 21 2011 01:43 HigoSeco wrote: it would be nice if they made the queen a massive unit so it could stomp over the ff. It'd help with ramp blocking but wouldn't render ff completely useless I've thought about this myself, not sure if I like the idea that phoenix could no longer lift them though.. | ||
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Ageless
United States67 Posts
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HoT
United States69 Posts
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ct2299
380 Posts
secondly, why penalize a race when ONE individual (MC) is able to utilize an ability to its utmost potential, isn't that what being a professional gamer is about? that's almost akin to making the three point line 4 feet farther because Ray Allen is an excellent 3 point shooter. everyone is now blaming forcefield for their losses, I can almost guarantee that anyone on this forum short of the pros here are losing due to other reasons. | ||
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emidanRKO
United States137 Posts
The thing about marine micro is that I have almost never seen anyone besides the best terrans in the world and very other few high APM players do ridiculously good marine splits. I personally can do amazing marine micro, and it took me days of losing to zerg because I could not split marines as good as MKP or MVP. I even have 250~ apm average, which is just as high as those guys. No matter what, there will never be a time where every good terran player is an amazing marine splitter. However, there will be a time where all the good protoss players have learned to do really good and abusive forcefields and that will break the game too much. Concussive shells doesnt prevent micro...it only helps to maybe 1-2 units from retreating extremely easily from an entire army. If that didn't exist, it would be retarded how easy it is to have your mistakes with micro not punish you at all in the early game. You would be able to retreat units so easily that it would be a joke. Fungal growth IMO should've became a missile again. It causes for more exciting and preemptive use and probably intense micro from both players. However, not being able to move obviously means no micro which is dumb. Change it to a slow effect and fungal with the new change will be great. | ||
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thegamer
47 Posts
because protoss has no early defensive structures early on. Terrans can get bunkers and zergs can get spine crawlers and have fast unit production. Protoss cannot get photon cannons unless they invest in a forge early on. But I also think that the tactical advantage of FFs in large battles, especially in higher skill levels is a bit too powerful. Toss players usually get about 5 sentries early on and pool a ton of energy so they can cast like 15 FFs instantaneously later on. This effectively traps half the opponents units and gives the protoss a free victory if done correctly. That said, here are are my possible options to reduce the tactical advantage while also maintaining its defensive advantages: -Make a cooldown for FFs like psionic storm. FFs last pretty long so making it cooldown would not hurt its ability to block ramps. But it will prevent toss from instantaneously casting a bazillion FFs and leaving the opponent with nothing they can do. -Make the cast range shorter. This can also block ramps but will make it harder to use in large battles. -Remove its ability to displace units. This can block ramps, but it cannot split an enemy in half. This might be too big of a nerf, so it might be reasonable to buff it a little bit too. -Make FF breakers more accessible; all the massive ground units that can break FFs are higher tier units that are harder to get. Terrans can get thors in tier 2 which is reasonable, but they are so immobile and such a large investment that they will hinder the army a lot. For example, making a queen a FF breaker would allow it to step cover zerg ramps to prevent reinforcements against a 4 gate. BTW, for the toss players whining that good FFs are hard to execute, and thus should not be nerfed to reward skill, WE SERIOUSLY DO NOT GIVE A FUCK!! Nobody cares about the bronze level games that you play. If u cannot FF properly u can just get better and learn to FF properly. On the other hand, at higher levels tosses FF perfectly almost every single time, and making it impossible to avoid is just ridiculous. | ||
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Kallo
United States11 Posts
If a zerg tries to bust a toss in any way early game, he can throw down disruption webs to stay alive till more units come out (the duration and energy cost would have to be tweaked of course). BUT! The big thing this would fix is that it would not allow a toss to prevent a zerg from getting down his ramp, it would just screw up his roaches and zerglings from doing any damage to your army, however, it also allows the zerg to micro against like dodging storms. This would allow for tense early game battles that don't wind up extremely one sided. and would probably allow for more macro games because games wouldn't end up with toss just FF raping a zerg in his base all the time. | ||
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bowserJr
United States2 Posts
On March 19 2011 18:22 H0i wrote: Abilities that nullify micro - Good or bad? My answer is no. | ||
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Juddas
768 Posts
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staxringold
United States173 Posts
Forcefield is the only true micro-problematic move. Destiny used to make this point a lot, and it was one of the few complaints he made I strongly agreed with. Forcefield should not be able to move units like it does. The result of that is that no matter how perfect your micro the opponent can just plop FFs wherever he feels like with 0 micro and counteract your machinations. | ||
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Faranth
933 Posts
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hadoken5
Canada519 Posts
On March 21 2011 04:35 Faranth wrote: I hope that Blizzard makes some gradual experimental adjustments on PTR to see if changing force fields would have a dramatic effect on the game. Watching MC vs. July was rather depressing, simply because July never had the chance to show off his skill. Even MC seemed to have the attitude of "I have force fields, therefore I win." Roach burrow unfortunately isn't enough to counter in most battles that I've seen, if the Zerg manages to get it at all. I don't think the solution is to increase the range of the Hydra or Roach. I would like to see them try to increase the energy required for a force field to 60. This would substantially reduce the number of force fields from a max energy sentry - either 3 force fields or 2 and a guardian shield. Players would have to be much more thoughtful about their placement and in protracted battles the Zerg could eventually break through. I hope Blizzard keeps tweaking, regardless of what they think, just to see what happens. The development of a game is never finished. The problem is not the cost, its the concept iteself, didn't you see game 1? What killed July the most was the SINGLE forcefield on the ramp. | ||
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staxringold
United States173 Posts
On March 21 2011 01:43 HigoSeco wrote: it would be nice if they made the queen a massive unit so it could stomp over the ff. It'd help with ramp blocking but wouldn't render ff completely useless That's an interesting idea, but would unfortunately make Void Rays WILDLY powerful (as they would destroy Zerg's lone AA option). I do like the idea of FFs having life (so they can be attacked/killed) and essentially being temporary destructible rocks. That way they'll still be very good in battles (as it takes time to refocus fire to break down a wall) but would prevent cheesily perma-walling someone's ramp to isolate part of their army automatically. | ||
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Striding Strider
United Kingdom787 Posts
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BetterFasterStronger
United States604 Posts
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freetgy
1720 Posts
On March 21 2011 04:39 hadoken5 wrote: The problem is not the cost, its the concept iteself, didn't you see game 1? What killed July the most was the SINGLE forcefield on the ramp. no it was Julys decision not to make units (to get more economic advantage) until MC was going out. That is the sole reason he got caught pants down, cause obviously July was following a "just it time" production. He misjudged the aggression potential (unitsize), and lost the game. if you only watch at the forcefield you don't see the forest before the trees. | ||
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goswser
United States3519 Posts
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