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If they made warp-in time proximity based on the pylons position to a Nexus that would reduce the effectiveness of the reinforcement of forward pylons but not remove the possibility.
The further away you are from the nexi the longer a warpin will take. Basically you could calculate it to be compared to how long it would take to run from a nexus (closest to warpin position) to the actual pylon your warping in on.
This makes the the Warpgate a great defensive tool still and also increases productionrate of good macro players, but it will reduce the strength of the reinforcement potential during rushes.
You could even use the Warp-prism to have a much smaller warp-in area but leave it as it is (time to warp in that is), thus making the harassment tool still viable, but you can't warp in a whole army and you need the tech to actually use it.
Thoughts?
*Edit* just read others have similar suggestions. I think using the nexus as the proximity based structure is better for the sake of the defensive capabilities. There should still be some reason to get the upgrade besides using warp-prism (using my example..)
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United States38 Posts
Protoss is mathematically stronger Late game
say you have both T and P has 200/200 armies.
P can instantly reinforce, T must train the units => P will always be 1 production cycle ahead
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yeah so what P has to do to win against is simple, just get a stalemate fight - everyone's dead - then you rebuild instantly and you win. So P wins every single late game PvZ simply because he has warpgates.
/irony..
Come talk about it after your "production cycle" gets owned by cost effecient marauders/roaches
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On March 20 2011 04:00 Kyuki wrote:
If they made warp-in time proximity based on the pylons position to a Nexus that would reduce the effectiveness of the reinforcement of forward pylons but not remove the possibility.
The further away you are from the nexi the longer a warpin will take. Basically you could calculate it to be compared to how long it would take to run from a nexus (closest to warpin position) to the actual pylon your warping in on.
This makes the the Warpgate a great defensive tool still and also increases productionrate of good macro players, but it will reduce the strength of the reinforcement potential during rushes.
You could even use the Warp-prism to have a much smaller warp-in area but leave it as it is (time to warp in that is), thus making the harassment tool still viable, but you can't warp in a whole army and you need the tech to actually use it.
Thoughts?
*Edit* just read others have similar suggestions. I think using the nexus as the proximity based structure is better for the sake of the defensive capabilities. There should still be some reason to get the upgrade besides using warp-prism (using my example..)
I like the way you think but protoss is already very strong defensively due to warpgate mechanics and chrono boost. I like your idea but I feel as if their defensive capabilities would be too strong and yes it would be a nice change to make warp prisms more viable.. I personally think warp prisms need a slight shield boost while not landed
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On March 20 2011 04:00 Kyuki wrote:
If they made warp-in time proximity based on the pylons position to a Nexus that would reduce the effectiveness of the reinforcement of forward pylons but not remove the possibility.
The further away you are from the nexi the longer a warpin will take. Basically you could calculate it to be compared to how long it would take to run from a nexus (closest to warpin position) to the actual pylon your warping in on.
This makes the the Warpgate a great defensive tool still and also increases productionrate of good macro players, but it will reduce the strength of the reinforcement potential during rushes.
You could even use the Warp-prism to have a much smaller warp-in area but leave it as it is (time to warp in that is), thus making the harassment tool still viable, but you can't warp in a whole army and you need the tech to actually use it.
Thoughts?
*Edit* just read others have similar suggestions. I think using the nexus as the proximity based structure is better for the sake of the defensive capabilities. There should still be some reason to get the upgrade besides using warp-prism (using my example..)
Yea I've been thinking about this idea for a while.
Blizzard should give it a shot imo.
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On March 13 2011 00:52 JohnQPublic wrote:
Zergs have been complaining about balance for the last 6 months and nothing has been done to give zergs even a little bit of hope.
Just quit this game now, seriously. Tired of all this Zerg QQ.
TANKS receieved a significant nerf, huge HUGE buff for TvZ against Zerg.
ROACHES recieved 1 extra range, MASSIVE buff.
AMULET is getting removed. Not gamechanging PvZ but still a nice buff.
ZEALOTS have a 5 second increased build time so P can't rush Z as easily, nice buff to Z
REAPERS were nerfed out of existance, you no longer have to worry about them, period.
PROXY RAX were nerfed out of existance, you no longer have to worry about as many T openings
INFESTOR is getting double damage against armored.
Are we done with the whining yet? This isn't taking into effect that Zerg has still been doing just fine the whole time (GSL wins 1 and 2, Idra having great results on the foreign scene regardless). If you STILL have a problem with the state of the game through blizzards balancing after these INSANE Zerg buffs throughout these 6 months of SC2, either switch races or quit, you have no idea the state of Zerg when the game was first released.
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Cool I think this is a good fix for the various changes.
Hope this goes live soon.
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On March 21 2011 01:22 Figgy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2011 00:52 JohnQPublic wrote:
Zergs have been complaining about balance for the last 6 months and nothing has been done to give zergs even a little bit of hope.
Just quit this game now, seriously. Tired of all this Zerg QQ. TANKS receieved a significant nerf, huge HUGE buff for TvZ against Zerg. ROACHES recieved 1 extra range, MASSIVE buff. AMULET is getting removed. Not gamechanging PvZ but still a nice buff. ZEALOTS have a 5 second increased build time so P can't rush Z as easily, nice buff to Z REAPERS were nerfed out of existance, you no longer have to worry about them, period. PROXY RAX were nerfed out of existance, you no longer have to worry about as many T openings INFESTOR is getting double damage against armored. Are we done with the whining yet? This isn't taking into effect that Zerg has still been doing just fine the whole time (GSL wins 1 and 2, Idra having great results on the foreign scene regardless). If you STILL have a problem with the state of the game through blizzards balancing after these INSANE Zerg buffs throughout these 6 months of SC2, either switch races or quit, you have no idea the state of Zerg when the game was first released.
Don't forget the HP buff to zerg structures that makes the hatchery just as durable as a CC and the spire had its health almost doubled, making it much harder to snipe.
Also, note the pros that switched to zerg (TLO, morrow, etc., even boxer said he may switch to zerg)
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On March 21 2011 01:22 Figgy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2011 00:52 JohnQPublic wrote:
Zergs have been complaining about balance for the last 6 months and nothing has been done to give zergs even a little bit of hope.
Just quit this game now, seriously. Tired of all this Zerg QQ. TANKS receieved a significant nerf, huge HUGE buff for TvZ against Zerg. ROACHES recieved 1 extra range, MASSIVE buff. AMULET is getting removed. Not gamechanging PvZ but still a nice buff. ZEALOTS have a 5 second increased build time so P can't rush Z as easily, nice buff to Z REAPERS were nerfed out of existance, you no longer have to worry about them, period. PROXY RAX were nerfed out of existance, you no longer have to worry about as many T openings INFESTOR is getting double damage against armored. Are we done with the whining yet? This isn't taking into effect that Zerg has still been doing just fine the whole time (GSL wins 1 and 2, Idra having great results on the foreign scene regardless). If you STILL have a problem with the state of the game through blizzards balancing after these INSANE Zerg buffs throughout these 6 months of SC2, either switch races or quit, you have no idea the state of Zerg when the game was first released.
I agree with this guy 100%. I'm sick of the zerg QQ. Things to add:
CREEP from the overlords is much bigger now. Always nice.
MAPS are much bigger now. This is awesome for zerg. Even lost temple is fixed...
STIM nerfed with this patch (30 seconds is huge!)
BUNKER nerfed with this patch
MEDIVACS nerfed (-Acceleration reduced from 2.315 to 2.25. -Speed reduced from 2.75 to 2.5.)
BATTLECRUISER nerfed Ground damage decreased from 10 to 8.
ZERG BUILDINGS buffed: they got much more health now!
Zergs will always whine, whatever blizzard does for them. I laugh when I read that morrow his best matchup is ZvT and that he somethimes thinks zerg is too strong in the matchup (read: imbalanced). Souce: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=202936
Morrow: But then again my Zerg vs Terran is very confident right now. some parts of me thinks it's imbalanced as well on these bigger macro maps too xD.
Morrow switched from terran to zerg, with success. Can you please give me 1 zerg who switched to terran, with success?
I'm not complaining about the zerg race, I'm complaining about the never ending zerg QQ. Yes, TvZ was imbalanced....5 months ago. Move on!
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well if the templar are going to nerfed into ablivion and especially on these current big maps in the pool i really want to see a few changes that blizzard has made in the past undone.
namely
1... zealot build time decreased out of gateways (i think originally it was increased by 5 seconds)-
(mainly because the map distances are so far apart, has anyone noticed the overly unusual number of zergs going for a 6 pool on these large 4 player maps and hoping they guess where you are? and you are lucky to scout the base by the time the zerglings are at your own base)?
2 i want thors to have energy back- if i go templar tech and he goes thors if i can't insta storm i should at least be able to feed back the thor
3... when my templar actually get energy to storm i want the radius and damage increased back the way it used to before it was nerfed sometime in beta
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On March 21 2011 05:54 Allred wrote:
well if the templar are going to nerfed into ablivion and especially on these current big maps in the pool i really want to see a few changes that blizzard has made in the past undone.
namely
1... zealot build time decreased out of gateways (i think originally it was increased by 5 seconds)-
(mainly because the map distances are so far apart, has anyone noticed the overly unusual number of zergs going for a 6 pool on these large 4 player maps and hoping they guess where you are? and you are lucky to scout the base by the time the zerglings are at your own base)?
2 i want thors to have energy back- if i go templar tech and he goes thors if i can't insta storm i should at least be able to feed back the thor
3... when my templar actually get energy to storm i want the radius and damage increased back the way it used to before it was nerfed sometime in beta
And there is 0 you will get from this. Why not? Because protoss is VERY strong lategame atm.
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On March 20 2011 04:01 Moki.tv wrote:
Protoss is mathematically stronger Late game
say you have both T and P has 200/200 armies.
P can instantly reinforce, T must train the units => P will always be 1 production cycle ahead
I see this as a very big problem. SC2 games shouldn't ever be only about one clash. Because if protoss wins one big battle its also gonna win the game because of instant reinforcements while terran is waiting for units to build.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 21 2011 01:22 Figgy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2011 00:52 JohnQPublic wrote:
Zergs have been complaining about balance for the last 6 months and nothing has been done to give zergs even a little bit of hope.
Just quit this game now, seriously. Tired of all this Zerg QQ. TANKS receieved a significant nerf, huge HUGE buff for TvZ against Zerg. ROACHES recieved 1 extra range, MASSIVE buff. AMULET is getting removed. Not gamechanging PvZ but still a nice buff. ZEALOTS have a 5 second increased build time so P can't rush Z as easily, nice buff to Z REAPERS were nerfed out of existance, you no longer have to worry about them, period. PROXY RAX were nerfed out of existance, you no longer have to worry about as many T openings INFESTOR is getting double damage against armored. Are we done with the whining yet? This isn't taking into effect that Zerg has still been doing just fine the whole time (GSL wins 1 and 2, Idra having great results on the foreign scene regardless). If you STILL have a problem with the state of the game through blizzards balancing after these INSANE Zerg buffs throughout these 6 months of SC2, either switch races or quit, you have no idea the state of Zerg when the game was first released.
TANKS receieved a significant nerf, huge HUGE buff for TvZ against Zerg.
True. Even though these are still the most powerful mid tier ground unit in the game (arguably the most powerful mid tier unit and late game ground unit). The change to the tank helped a lot.
ROACHES recieved 1 extra range, MASSIVE buff.
True. +1 range on roaches made them playable instead of useless. But these units are still really bad against Terran.
AMULET is getting removed. Not gamechanging PvZ but still a nice buff.
This is mainly a buff to T, it changes things slightly for Z but ht weren't the prob, Colo are and htis promotes colossi play.
ZEALOTS have a 5 second increased build time so P can't rush Z as easily, nice buff to Z
Zealot build time was originally 28/38 secs and they changed it to 23/33 for a short time. It didn't do what it was supposed to do so it was reverted, I would hardly call this a buff... more like a reversion
REAPERS were nerfed out of existance, you no longer have to worry about them, period.
It sucks what happened to reapers, the unit was awesome and still has a chance to be awesome but the words too good came to mind. I would like to see this unit helped out.
PROXY RAX were nerfed out of existance, you no longer have to worry about as many T openings
I think the general feeling for this game is that zerg (and protoss slightly) feel undeveloped compared to terran, removing proxy rax from the game is not something that I would cry, it was a good change.
INFESTOR is getting double damage against armored.
30% is not double, it does double dps to all units and more than double dps to armored but the stun duration is cut in half. I can't wait to use infestors but I would not call this change a huge buff yet.
In general the loudest voices are going to prevail, which is a shame. Zerg does need changes but I almost feel it is more of a flaw in design than something that is easily overcome. In addition to the loudest voices being the ones that win we also have the people like me who aren't qualified to judge balance. I too am tired of Zerg QQ, especially when biased z's call for things that would make Z overpowered instead of in line with p/t.
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I agree with this guy 100%. I'm sick of the zerg QQ. Things to add: CREEP from the overlords is much bigger now. Always nice. MAPS are much bigger now. This is awesome for zerg. Even lost temple is fixed... STIM nerfed with this patch (30 seconds is huge!) BUNKER nerfed with this patch MEDIVACS nerfed (-Acceleration reduced from 2.315 to 2.25. -Speed reduced from 2.75 to 2.5.) BATTLECRUISER nerfed Ground damage decreased from 10 to 8. ZERG BUILDINGS buffed: they got much more health now! Zergs will always whine, whatever blizzard does for them. I laugh when I read that morrow his best matchup is ZvT and that he somethimes thinks zerg is too strong in the matchup (read: imbalanced). Souce: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=202936Morrow: But then again my Zerg vs Terran is very confident right now. some parts of me thinks it's imbalanced as well on these bigger macro maps too xD.Morrow switched from terran to zerg, with success. Can you please give me 1 zerg who switched to terran, with success? I'm not complaining about the zerg race, I'm complaining about the never ending zerg QQ. Yes, TvZ was imbalanced....5 months ago. Move on!
Zerg is not exclusively the only race that was helped, and not the only reason why Blizzard cracked down hard. Can you at least understand why they nerfed/buffed things?
You also act like Z players are the sole/main source of QQ. Do not be hypocritical. Do you remember after the roach buff, the Zs quieted down and P and T players let out a onslaught of QQ? How about the T players QQing about how they never won a GSL and how Z was broken? How you could never stop a 14 hatch and since they couldn't, T auto loses? Yes, zergies do QQ, but don't pretend other races do not, and somehow, that you can say a race QQs more.
Start regarding QQrs as PEOPLE, rather than what RACE they play.
P.S Morrow switched to Zerg because of what Idra said about him.... It's not so far-fetched that he says ZvT is easy because of this.
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On March 21 2011 01:41 101toss wrote:
Don't forget the HP buff to zerg structures that makes the hatchery just as durable as a CC and the spire had its health almost doubled, making it much harder to snipe.
Also, note the pros that switched to zerg (TLO, morrow, etc., even boxer said he may switch to zerg)
Not only is your information on the structures incorrect (spire almost doubled...)
Hatchery life increased from 1250 to 1500.
Lair life increased from 1800 to 2000.
Spawning Pool life increased from 750 to 1000.
Spire life increased from 600 to 850.
Ultralisk Cavern life increased from 600 to 850.
but also you are including TLO who is still random (I think the general consensus is that his T is his best) and Boxer is still T... Morrow is the exception and With 1 person switching to zerg doesn't mean anything, it was highly publicised though.
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On March 21 2011 01:22 Figgy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2011 00:52 JohnQPublic wrote:
Zergs have been complaining about balance for the last 6 months and nothing has been done to give zergs even a little bit of hope.
Just quit this game now, seriously. Tired of all this Zerg QQ. TANKS receieved a significant nerf, huge HUGE buff for TvZ against Zerg. ROACHES recieved 1 extra range, MASSIVE buff. AMULET is getting removed. Not gamechanging PvZ but still a nice buff. ZEALOTS have a 5 second increased build time so P can't rush Z as easily, nice buff to Z REAPERS were nerfed out of existance, you no longer have to worry about them, period. PROXY RAX were nerfed out of existance, you no longer have to worry about as many T openings INFESTOR is getting double damage against armored. Are we done with the whining yet? This isn't taking into effect that Zerg has still been doing just fine the whole time (GSL wins 1 and 2, Idra having great results on the foreign scene regardless). If you STILL have a problem with the state of the game through blizzards balancing after these INSANE Zerg buffs throughout these 6 months of SC2, either switch races or quit, you have no idea the state of Zerg when the game was first released.
The problem isnt that FruitDealer can win GSL, or Nestea. The problem isnt that Idra can do fine in GSL and foreign tournaments. The problem is that there is so LITTLE of zergs. Look how many zergs you have in top 20 in EACH REGION. Look on tournaments. How many zergs are in RO8/16/32. Look at that, and then comeback.
Zergs arent complaining about that u CAN'T pull off a win. Cuz thats a lie, of course u can win. The problem is that u can't be solid with zerg, u are always at back foot.
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On March 21 2011 01:53 Dente wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 01:22 Figgy wrote:On March 13 2011 00:52 JohnQPublic wrote:
Zergs have been complaining about balance for the last 6 months and nothing has been done to give zergs even a little bit of hope.
Just quit this game now, seriously. Tired of all this Zerg QQ. TANKS receieved a significant nerf, huge HUGE buff for TvZ against Zerg. ROACHES recieved 1 extra range, MASSIVE buff. AMULET is getting removed. Not gamechanging PvZ but still a nice buff. ZEALOTS have a 5 second increased build time so P can't rush Z as easily, nice buff to Z REAPERS were nerfed out of existance, you no longer have to worry about them, period. PROXY RAX were nerfed out of existance, you no longer have to worry about as many T openings INFESTOR is getting double damage against armored. Are we done with the whining yet? This isn't taking into effect that Zerg has still been doing just fine the whole time (GSL wins 1 and 2, Idra having great results on the foreign scene regardless). If you STILL have a problem with the state of the game through blizzards balancing after these INSANE Zerg buffs throughout these 6 months of SC2, either switch races or quit, you have no idea the state of Zerg when the game was first released. I agree with this guy 100%. I'm sick of the zerg QQ. Things to add: CREEP from the overlords is much bigger now. Always nice. MAPS are much bigger now. This is awesome for zerg. Even lost temple is fixed... STIM nerfed with this patch (30 seconds is huge!) BUNKER nerfed with this patch MEDIVACS nerfed (-Acceleration reduced from 2.315 to 2.25. -Speed reduced from 2.75 to 2.5.) BATTLECRUISER nerfed Ground damage decreased from 10 to 8. ZERG BUILDINGS buffed: they got much more health now! Zergs will always whine, whatever blizzard does for them. I laugh when I read that morrow his best matchup is ZvT and that he somethimes thinks zerg is too strong in the matchup (read: imbalanced). Souce: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=202936Morrow: But then again my Zerg vs Terran is very confident right now. some parts of me thinks it's imbalanced as well on these bigger macro maps too xD.Morrow switched from terran to zerg, with success. Can you please give me 1 zerg who switched to terran, with success? I'm not complaining about the zerg race, I'm complaining about the never ending zerg QQ. Yes, TvZ was imbalanced....5 months ago. Move on!
Don't think anyone is really arguing that Zerg is under-powered against Terran. It's more Z v P that seems a little unbalanced atm.
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A change for PvP: Make overlapping pylon fields nullify each other. You cant warp in when the opponents power field overlaps with yours.
Would be hilarious to see some offensive pylons lol.
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On March 20 2011 00:25 Moki.tv wrote:
(3900 Masters T)
I was just thinking about the Ghost EMP nerf
This totally changes the HT/Ghost wars
Say you have 1 HT vs 1 Ghost, both at 200 energy. HT has the potential to remove energy and kill the ghost (feedback does damage), whereas EMP can only remove 100 HT energy, and the HT still can feedback the ghost (or even storm). So the only viable option is to either have two ghosts use two emps on ONE HT (waste of energy), or have two Ghosts snipe the HT simultaneously (if you only have 1 ghost, the delay is enough for the HT to feedback). So this means that in Ghost/HT wars, you will need at least two ghosts for every HT (at least in the first engagement). Hope Blizzard took that into account!!!
On March 20 2011 04:01 Moki.tv wrote:
Protoss is mathematically stronger Late game
say you have both T and P has 200/200 armies.
P can instantly reinforce, T must train the units => P will always be 1 production cycle ahead
Good God , Moki , no offence but you really are bad at math & logic 
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On March 21 2011 07:10 Tiax;mous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2011 00:25 Moki.tv wrote:
(3900 Masters T)
I was just thinking about the Ghost EMP nerf
This totally changes the HT/Ghost wars
Say you have 1 HT vs 1 Ghost, both at 200 energy. HT has the potential to remove energy and kill the ghost (feedback does damage), whereas EMP can only remove 100 HT energy, and the HT still can feedback the ghost (or even storm). So the only viable option is to either have two ghosts use two emps on ONE HT (waste of energy), or have two Ghosts snipe the HT simultaneously (if you only have 1 ghost, the delay is enough for the HT to feedback). So this means that in Ghost/HT wars, you will need at least two ghosts for every HT (at least in the first engagement). Hope Blizzard took that into account!!! Show nested quote +On March 20 2011 04:01 Moki.tv wrote:
Protoss is mathematically stronger Late game
say you have both T and P has 200/200 armies.
P can instantly reinforce, T must train the units => P will always be 1 production cycle ahead Good God , Moki , no offence but you really are bad at math & logic
What math and logic are so bad? He's right in terms of gateway units.
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