Tyler v Jinro at PAX (Spoilers) - Page 2

On March 11 2011 18:20 Naniwa wrote:
showmatches? really!? then it must be very serious.

On March 11 2011 21:48 Slipspace wrote:


500$ goes to the winner of the tournament, about as much as you've made in your starcraft career

you're derailing this thread as Tyler did play brilliantly, showing hes just as strong of a player he was in bw

On March 11 2011 18:17 Naniwa wrote:
wtf he won ladder games ? siick.

On March 11 2011 18:17 Naniwa wrote:
wtf he won ladder games ? siick.

On March 11 2011 20:45 iaguz wrote:
Spoilers dude ><

Anyway, I feel a lot of it is because:

a) Jinro hates TvP and has little confidence in the matchup. This affects his play, probably.
b) Jinro's 1 rax FE is actually not a good build. I know this because he loses a lot with it, and so do I! On Terminus RE it's probably a good build (probably), but 1 rax FE and a lot of the variations of it are kinda balls imo. I dunno, I suppose jinro knows something about this game that I don't (most likely!), but I feel this is a bad build (is there such a thing as a good build in this mu ><)

The 1 rax FE is sort of bad because it reacts poorly to a lot of Protoss strategies, and it's near instant BO lose against 1 gate FE (The protoss has a choice of 2 extremely dangerous builds and you can only counter one of them. Either way, his collosus should be out so early it's almost unpunishable). You lose out on a lot of potential early pressure, and you'll hardly BO win while using it. TvP has a lot of this sort of thing, a BO which happens to be really strong against a certain set of builds and very bad against others. For example, a build with late observers will struggle against a cloaked banshee. DT's are DT's. 2/1/1 openings with later expansions, kind of like SjoW and QXC's aggro and harassment styles are quite vulnerable to phoenix openings. Phoenix openings, especially the really quick ones, can be vulnerable to all-ins and strong rax aggression, or if he gets ghosts unreasonably early for some reason.

But 1 rax FE doesn't seem to 'win' against anything except maybe stupid void ray play. The macro advantage you gain is counteracted by the Protoss having freedom to do what he wants and maintain a strong tech advantage. Take their game one. Tyler does a 3gate robo expansion. This SHOULD be behind against what jinro is doing, in theory, but there is no point in that game where jinro's superior economy can be brought to bear against Tyler. Perhaps there was some sort of macro mistake on jinro's part, but despite having what should theoretically be a massive macro advantage through his significantly faster 2nd and 3rd bases, he gets steamrolled.

Game 2, jinro should have lost. Tyler floating 2k, a problem easily solved by buildign some fucking gateways! Rawrgh!

Game 3, again, Jinro cannot pressure a really vulnerable build, althoguh I feel Tyler cut so many corners because he knows how impotent 1rax FE is against a handful of sentries.

Game 4 could have gone either way. Hard to tell because Jinro lost because of his bunker repair fuck up. Who knows?

I've learned a lot of this through trying this build almost every TvP I play (except xel naga and it's huge fuck-off natural, where I just rush cloaked banshees, expand, get about 6 tanks out and push, and pray to christ he doesn't have chargelots out yet because that's like the only thing that stops it. Well, most of the time) and losing to solid Macro protosses who just go "well, thanks for your absolute lack of pressure for, oh, about 11 minutes. I'ma just do the fuck I want". And then you get to lategame TvP which is extremely tough.

I dunno though. This is just what I'm feeling so far. Perhaps I'm wrong?

On March 11 2011 18:20 Naniwa wrote:
showmatches? really!? then it must be very serious.