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On March 21 2011 11:33 Tschis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 05:33 ChefStarCraft wrote:On March 21 2011 00:58 Tschis wrote:On March 20 2011 15:01 ChefStarCraft wrote:On March 20 2011 12:38 Tschis wrote:
Anyone else has a problem when you press "w" and the camera goes back to the same queen, or one that has already used inject?
//tx You either: 1. Hit w to many times and skipped the hatchery. 2. The queen wasn't close enough to the hatchery or you din't have a queen assigned to the hatchery that was skipped. If its the second reasons, this is the whole purpose of the toggle. Which is to keep queens from running to hatcheries without a queen beside it when injecting. Heres a point I made and will put into the op: I will double tap e and hold shit to use follow current selection. I only use it when its later in the games, if harass had taken a queen or if a new hatch was just put up and theres no queen. Mainly whenever its hectic and I need more focus on other matters. I will inject normally by pressing e once and hold shift when its not hectic and I know i have a queen beside each hatchery. I view this as my safety button, it has saved my butt many times. Nope. Whenever I have more hatcheries than Queens, this happens. It's like it tries to go to the Hatchery with no Queen, and then it bounces back to the closes Queen, and that might have been a Queen that already injected larva. This is bound to happen eventually if someone kills one of my Queens. So this might be some trouble this method has. //tx That is precisely what I was trying to explain. If you don't have a queen beside a hatch it will skip it. It pulls the base camera to the queens in your selection, acting as a super base camera. You can still complete a full cycle of injects, you will just skip the hatchery that has no queen beside it. Which is the whole point, so I can't really see this as a problem. If it has jumped back to a queen that has already injected then you have completed the whole cycle. If you haven't completely fished doing the cycle and the camera keeps getting stuck on a queen there is probably another queen close by that is also in that control group. If 2 queens are in the same screen and really close to each other (close to side by side) then the base camera will have a higher priority to follow those queens, locking the camera. If I inject on the first hatch, and the second doesn't have a Queen, and the third has, sometimes it pops back to the first Queen instead of going to the Third base, so I haven't finished the whole cycle, but it brought me back to an injected base. It's better than having a queen walking around, but it's not good either. //tx
This can be due to the cycle of the hatcheries with the base camera. My insight on it is that the base camera will cycle the hatcheries in order you created them. The hatchery that is being skipped and causing the camera to appear on a already visited queen is because its forcing the base camera to cycle between 2 different hatcheries that are closer to that queen in the selection. If the hatcheries are spaced out right this wont happen, (this can be hard to avoid in certain maps so I don't advise it). This is the only small set back that I can confirm is true.
I agree it's far better then having the queens running around. I don't recommend injecting like this every single inject. Just when its turned into a heavy macro game or you need to focus on other matters. For example: if you know there is a alert at a hatchery and you prefer not to risk a queen meltdown.
Thank you for helping me understand this. ^.^
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I would love to see what a player like IdrA's opinion would be on this...since practically speaking they would have the most experience with top-level strategical and mechanical play. Especially IdrA since he is considered one of the best macro players in the world.
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On March 21 2011 12:30 Eruaphadion wrote:
I would love to see what a player like IdrA's opinion would be on this...since practically speaking they would have the most experience with top-level strategical and mechanical play. Especially IdrA since he is considered one of the best macro players in the world.
From what i have read most if not all top players don't mess with changing hotkeys.
You can't change hotkeys in some tournaments.
I'm not 100% on this but I have come across hearing this more then once.
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hmm i try to do this method but for some reason when i press w (base camera) after pressing center unit camera (shift+e) it cancels the effect and just toggles all hatcheries even ones w/o queens near them any1 else gettin this prob. ? If so have a fix? tanx
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On March 23 2011 05:24 ryryry wrote:
hmm i try to do this method but for some reason when i press w (base camera) after pressing center unit camera (shift+e) it cancels the effect and just toggles all hatcheries even ones w/o queens near them any1 else gettin this prob. ? If so have a fix? tanx
I'm not to sure I'f I understand your problem. From what I read your using center on current selection, you should be using follow current selection.
Center on current selection will cancel follow current selections toggle.
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On March 21 2011 13:54 ChefStarCraft wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 12:30 Eruaphadion wrote:
I would love to see what a player like IdrA's opinion would be on this...since practically speaking they would have the most experience with top-level strategical and mechanical play. Especially IdrA since he is considered one of the best macro players in the world. From what i have read most if not all top players don't mess with changing hotkeys. You can't change hotkeys in some tournaments. I'm not 100% on this but I have come across hearing this more then once.
Which tournaments? How would they check if you had switched?
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I have been using this method to great success in patch 1.2.1. But now that 1.3 is out, for some reason the Follow Current Selection feature is not working.....I've changed nothing but the base camera is overriding the follow current selection option. Anyone else getting problems?
Edit:
I think i can pretty much confirm that Follow Current Unit Selection does WORK BUT it does not override the base command anymore!!! ARGH!
It was fun while it lasted chef.
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On March 23 2011 12:34 Golgotha wrote:
I have been using this method to great success in patch 1.2.1. But now that 1.3 is out, for some reason the Follow Current Selection feature is not working.....I've changed nothing but the base camera is overriding the follow current selection option. Anyone else getting problems?
Edit:
I think i can pretty much confirm that Follow Current Unit Selection does WORK BUT it does not override the base command anymore!!! ARGH!
It was fun while it lasted chef.
I just tested it, and yeah the new patch patched it up.
Currently the best way to stop queens from running around is now pressing s after injecting.
Also keeping queens energy low.
I too am sad, but these things happen.
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pressing s or h has the problem that cycle 1 they start walking to the other side of the map and then stop, cycle 2 they start walking back to their hatch and stop before reaching it. All this without injecting anything.
I think the only way is manually checking what you inject 
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On March 24 2011 11:08 dementrio wrote:pressing s or h has the problem that cycle 1 they start walking to the other side of the map and then stop, cycle 2 they start walking back to their hatch and stop before reaching it. All this without injecting anything. I think the only way is manually checking what you inject
stopping dose work if you catch it right away.
So I'm not sure what your getting at.
But manually checking before you inject goes without saying.
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if the first hatch in the cycle is one without a queen, at least one of the queens will start walking around. if you press stop after you do the injection cycle, that queen will have traveled a bit (and not injected anything) since she was the first one to which a move command was issued. in the next cycle, she will start walking back towards her hatchery, but since the cycle should take the same time as before, the stop command will time just a split second before she injects. After a while of doing this none of the queens is actually injecting.
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On March 21 2011 12:30 Eruaphadion wrote:
I would love to see what a player like IdrA's opinion would be on this...since practically speaking they would have the most experience with top-level strategical and mechanical play. Especially IdrA since he is considered one of the best macro players in the world.
Idra has said (on sotg iirc) that he doesn't use this method. He has his queens individually hotkeyed so he can see the energy of each of his queens by cycling through the hotkeys. That way, he can keep his queens at low energy even with staggered injection times.
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actually one way of dealing with this would be to remap one of the fixed camera hotkeys (f5-f8) to what was follow current selection, bind that to your main or one hatch that will always have a queen, and go through the same key presses as before and add stop at the end. gonna try this now.
edit: doesn't work, because unless the queenless hatches are the last ones in the cycle, queens will start walking instead of injecting their hatch and basically stop injecting until you babysit them. and this defeats the whole purpose of this method so you might as well use the minimap or individual hotkeys or w/e. sadface
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After testing a ton of different combinations, I want to share the setup that works best for me (now that the follow-selection trick doesn't work):
I've remapped the fixed camera hotkes (default F5-f8) to ALT+1-5. I set those so that my hatches are centered in the screen. My queen hotkey is 4.
Now I've made a habit of periodically tapping: 4 V SHIFT+ALT+1. This brings the camera back in my main, with queens selected and ready to inject. If the hatchery needs injecting, I click and tap 2-5 while holding down shift and alt. this injects all the hatcheries at almost the same speed of the backspace method, and as long as you take care of setting up the camera locations when you get your queens/hatches, there's no running around.
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I think it is definitely an easier method to inject but I prefer using "4" for my hatcheries so I can select all the larva and set rally points easier and then I use 5-9 for my individual hatcheries so I can just tap them and select the queen and inject. This method actually will hurt you I feel if you lose queens or you want to get use to microing queens against harassment etc. Not to mention on your stream I notice you miss your injections constantly even with this easy ass method. So I think it can make you forget about injecting just because of how simple it makes it, I like being able to select a hatchery individually as well and fix a rally point quickly If I need to re rally units from a base across the map. But I know it is all just personal preference so maybe I will give it a try.
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yeah good idea i'll try it.
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On March 30 2011 11:47 dementrio wrote:+ Show Spoiler +After testing a ton of different combinations, I want to share the setup that works best for me (now that the follow-selection trick doesn't work):
I've remapped the fixed camera hotkes (default F5-f8) to ALT+1-5. I set those so that my hatches are centered in the screen. My queen hotkey is 4.
Now I've made a habit of periodically tapping: 4 V SHIFT+ALT+1. This brings the camera back in my main, with queens selected and ready to inject. If the hatchery needs injecting, I click and tap 2-5 while holding down shift and alt. this injects all the hatcheries at almost the same speed of the backspace method, and as long as you take care of setting up the camera locations when you get your queens/hatches, there's no running around.
Huge thanks for this, it solved all my problems!
In addition to it, I´ve not set my hotkey for "Center current selection" to ALT+W, so I can select a hatch and press ALT+W before CTRL+ALT+W (hotkey for set camera hotkey), which minimizes the effect of misclicking a hatch when cycling through them.
Another little tool I find quite useful is to change the hotkeys for control group "0" which is almost never used to grave (or whatever that button left to "1" at the edge of our keyboards), and at the start of every game I bind my main hatch (and no other hatches later on) to it, so I can always tap it to see the progress bar, helping me to get the injections timed correctly and not only fast in execution.
Regards
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On March 30 2011 11:47 dementrio wrote:
After testing a ton of different combinations, I want to share the setup that works best for me (now that the follow-selection trick doesn't work):
I've remapped the fixed camera hotkes (default F5-f8) to ALT+1-5. I set those so that my hatches are centered in the screen. My queen hotkey is 4.
Now I've made a habit of periodically tapping: 4 V SHIFT+ALT+1. This brings the camera back in my main, with queens selected and ready to inject. If the hatchery needs injecting, I click and tap 2-5 while holding down shift and alt. this injects all the hatcheries at almost the same speed of the backspace method, and as long as you take care of setting up the camera locations when you get your queens/hatches, there's no running around.
In my play I really can't see this being any different.
This is just achieving the same method as base camera with just pressing more buttons and taking the time to assign hotkeys.
The main problem with the back space method is when something has killed your queen.
This camera location idea will put you in the same spot with queens running around.
It does solve the queens running around if a new hatch just has popped and you haven't made a queen yet, but thats not a big enough reason for me to start using it this way. Imo the time to make the hotkeys and manage them inst worth the effort compared to the backspace method.
When injecting with the base camera the newest hatch created will be the last hatchery to be centered on. Thats all i need to know.
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On March 30 2011 11:47 dementrio wrote:
After testing a ton of different combinations, I want to share the setup that works best for me (now that the follow-selection trick doesn't work):
I've remapped the fixed camera hotkes (default F5-f8) to ALT+1-5. I set those so that my hatches are centered in the screen. My queen hotkey is 4.
Now I've made a habit of periodically tapping: 4 V SHIFT+ALT+1. This brings the camera back in my main, with queens selected and ready to inject. If the hatchery needs injecting, I click and tap 2-5 while holding down shift and alt. this injects all the hatcheries at almost the same speed of the backspace method, and as long as you take care of setting up the camera locations when you get your queens/hatches, there's no running around.
nice! will go try it out and test. Been doing something similar and kicking ass!
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On March 30 2011 11:47 dementrio wrote:
After testing a ton of different combinations, I want to share the setup that works best for me (now that the follow-selection trick doesn't work):
I've remapped the fixed camera hotkes (default F5-f8) to ALT+1-5. I set those so that my hatches are centered in the screen. My queen hotkey is 4.
Now I've made a habit of periodically tapping: 4 V SHIFT+ALT+1. This brings the camera back in my main, with queens selected and ready to inject. If the hatchery needs injecting, I click and tap 2-5 while holding down shift and alt. this injects all the hatcheries at almost the same speed of the backspace method, and as long as you take care of setting up the camera locations when you get your queens/hatches, there's no running around.
omg this works perfectly!!!!!! holy christ. dude make a new thread with this method. I am going to make a video right now to show how fast this method is. I kinda do it differently but same idea with camera locations. Very easy and very fast. I love this method more because you will never have a run away queen like the backspace method.
Edit:
sorry mods i posted too quickly in my excitement.
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EPT
