EPTinsta vs. missile shot - Page 9
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KoKoRo
United States186 Posts
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SheaR619
United States2399 Posts
On March 07 2011 03:58 Ex_Matt wrote: Eventhough Marines are criminals, I think they'd be much smarter than the average Hydralisk. Also when you're playing the campaign, that commander guy takes on a whole buncha hydralisks and is even able to block their acid spines with his arm. Not really surprised by the video, everyone knows marines have the best dps. The video doesn't utilize the hydras max range and the fact that they'd be attacking before the marines do. Cry harder newbs. Read the damn OP. You are clearly not seeing the point of this thread. It not comparing Hydras to marine. | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
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LoLAdriankat
United States4307 Posts
On March 07 2011 04:25 Dandel Ion wrote: Actually, I think Marines overkill too. It's just that they fire so fast, you can't really be sure. But for example when watching GSL TvZ, and seeing a player with perfect stutterstep micro (MKP games I recommend), it's visible that always only one Zergling dies, while the others are not even hurt - even if there are like 12 marines. When he leaves them standing, they will spread fire. Again, I may be wrong, but from my observations, only tanks don't overkill on the first shot. In that case, it's usually because the (perfectly) shutterstepping marines have nothing else to shoot besides what's just barely in their attack range. If they have something else to shoot, they spread out their damage. | ||
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Synk
United States297 Posts
edit: or maybe its just the fact that I feel like we're not going to get the full benefit of the atk dmg due to overkilling, but you always get the full benefit of the armor upgrade. | ||
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EpicLord
United States18 Posts
On March 07 2011 04:18 Lonyo wrote: Why would that be different to marine vs marine with insta vs time delay? Same thing just slightly different stats which shouldn't change the overall outcome. That is my point. If the stats made it so that the numbers would work out in a different way (Like X amount of shots to kill Unit A, compared to the original test where X would be different, which would increase the effect of overkill/smart fire), it could further show evidence of well, whatever the people in this thread are looking for evidence of  . | ||
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godemperor
Belgium2043 Posts
On March 07 2011 04:26 lilky wrote: CAN YOU F*CKIN RETARDS READ THE DAMN OP POST!??!!? jesus christ stupid americans cant read the 20 words in the post for those of you who are too stupid to understand what the OP is saying: THOSE ARE NOT NORMAL HYDRALISKS IN THE VIDEO THEY HAVE THE EXACT SAME STATS (health, range, rate of fire, unit collision size, movement speed, EVERYTHING) THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT THE HYDRALISKS FIRE PROJECTILES AND THE MARINES FIRE INSTANTLY. as a result, the marines CANNOT overkill the hydralisks do overkill This!!! | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On March 07 2011 04:28 LoLAdriankat wrote: In that case, it's usually because the (perfectly) shutterstepping marines have nothing else to shoot besides what's just barely in their attack range. If they have something else to shoot, they spread out their damage. No, I disagree. If that was the case, they would not attack at all, like the vice example: SIEGE TANKS! . | ||
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LoLAdriankat
United States4307 Posts
On March 07 2011 04:31 Dandel Ion wrote: No, I disagree. If that was the case, they would not attack at all, like the vice example: SIEGE TANKS! . Marines and other high rate-of-fire instant-attack units don't have splash damage so it doesn't even matter if they overkill something when they have no other options. | ||
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Nakama
Germany584 Posts
Its just another varibale u can use to balance the game wich is, like most things, good and bad at once cause u also HAVE to balance it. U cant just let 25 marines fight vs 25 hydras and then say its op or even draw any conclusion out of it without looking at the whole context. back to OP : Asking if there shall be a diffrence betwenn isntant and missle shot is like asking someone shall i go right or left wihtout saying him where ur goal is to clarify some things: Yes i know these are no " real" hydras butmy point still stands. The question the OP ask is complete sensless: u can not ask if its a good thing that there is a diffrence between missle and instant shot cause the damn diffrence is there ! U can only ask if u want the diffrence in the game or if u dont want it there then either make all shots isntant or missle like but then u loose one option to balance the dmg output of units wihtout affecting the real numbers. ( just to show u what i mean a very rough, easy and therefore very limited example : u can balance marines/stlaker/lings so that stalkers kill marines but lose to lings and lings still lose to marines. If u only have untis with identical attacktypes u cant creat such a scenario, therefore u have meele and range untis and slow attack rate vs fast attack rate or instat vs missle shot .And i think noone would ever say that overall having less options is agodd thing or not ? U can only ask : Do i want this specific diffrence in this specific situation so that overall my game is still balanced and since the op doesnt provide any specific situation the question he asks is sensless | ||
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Ex_Matt
Canada84 Posts
On March 07 2011 04:28 SheaR619 wrote: Read the damn OP. You are clearly not seeing the point of this thread. It not comparing Hydras to marine. I W A S R E P L Y I N G T O T H E P E O P L E C R Y I N G Learn to read and accept the context of the post. Even read my 2nd post. Jesus christ. | ||
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KoKoRo
United States186 Posts
On March 07 2011 04:26 lilky wrote: jesus christ stupid americans cant read the 20 words in the post This hurts my feelings. :[ | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 07 2011 00:50 morimacil wrote: Aye, banelings are the only zerg uit that never overkills. Strictly speaking, no melee unit ever overkills because their attack has no travel time. And the baneling could qualify as a melee unit in that regard. | ||
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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
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LoLAdriankat
United States4307 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 07 2011 04:28 LoLAdriankat wrote: In that case, it's usually because the (perfectly) shutterstepping marines have nothing else to shoot besides what's just barely in their attack range. If they have something else to shoot, they spread out their damage. I think this is correct. Marines attack instantly, and their damage is applied instantly as well. They attack in such a way that they cannot overkill. Overkill is when you waste shots on a unit. For example, say you have a 1 hp zergling, and 20 marines. You attack the zergling, and only 1 marine will fire. If you do this same thing with roaches, or hydras, all 20 of them will fire on the zergling, wasting a substantial amount of DPS. So I think what you see in games, has to do with attack range, because marines will prefer to attack what's closest to them, if all priorities are the same, but they will not overkill. Edit: I actually think this is wrong now. Can someone check if all marines fire, or just one? I think it's just they won't overkill if there's anything else to shoot, otherwise they don't care. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On March 07 2011 04:33 LoLAdriankat wrote: Marines and other high rate-of-fire instant-attack units don't have splash damage so it doesn't even matter if they overkill something when they have no other options. It theoretically sets their attack on cooldown. Purely from a game-mechanic point of view, I wish to clarify that marines overkill like (almost) all the other ranged units. It may not matter practically. But that doesn't make it wrong. Just irrelevant. | ||
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SheaR619
United States2399 Posts
On March 07 2011 04:34 Ex_Matt wrote: I W A S R E P L Y I N G T O T H E P E O P L E C R Y I N G Learn to read and accept the context of the post. Even read my 2nd post. Jesus christ. I am sorry i did not read your 2nd post but you were talking about hydra range which is irrelevant to the thread. I think the OP stated pretty clearly and did a rather good analysis of the projectile vs instant. He could of even done roaches vs marine if he truly wanted to. | ||
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usethis2
2164 Posts
On March 07 2011 04:33 Nakama wrote: YES it is a big diffrence but thats a good thing in my opinion and i think blizz did it on purpose. Its just another varibale u can use to balance the game wich is, like most things, good and bad at once cause u also HAVE to balance it. U cant just let 25 marines fight vs 25 hydras and then say its op or even draw any conclusion out of it without looking at the whole context. back to OP : Asking if there shall be a diffrence betwenn isntant and missle shot is like asking someone shall i go right or left wihtout saying him where ur goal is I think you do understand the topic but are confused at the same time. ANYONE will take instant over missile given choice, period. It just happens that Terran has most of these instant fire units, most notably the marines. And some (many?) people think the marines are OP. And this instant shot mechanism obviously is what makes marines so strong. That's why it's brought up to people's attention. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On March 07 2011 04:37 Dandel Ion wrote: It theoretically sets their attack on cooldown. Purely from a game-mechanic point of view, I wish to clarify that marines overkill like (almost) all the other ranged units. It may not matter practically. But that doesn't make it wrong. Just irrelevant. They do not overkill, it is very easy to test in game, stop spreading misinformation. | ||
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