Here's the official info about the North American Starleague application process, deadlines, etc.
UPDATE: We are currently having some discussions with Korean teams and representatives. We will be doing our best to get Koreans into the NASL. We appreciate all feedback and concern!
Application Process: *Taken from NASL.tv FAQ section:
Application Process - Teams were approached in February about the North American Star League. The approached teams were given the option of submitting the players they wanted to submit for consideration.
- The approached teams were officially given North American Star League Contracts to sign; player contracts will be sent to those teams Friday March 4th. Once players have submitted their contracts, they will officially be entered into the player pool.
-Teams & Players that were NOT contacted must submit a public application to be sent to apply@nasl.tv with the following information:
Team Leader/Manager Contact Information
A note on teams: A team is defined by us as two (2) or more players submitting a team application and providing a collective deposit, or as an entity that supports any number of players via sponsorships.
You may create a team solely for this event.
Names (First & Last)
Gamer ID
Team
Race
A link to a Youtube video of the each player answering the following questions:
Tell us about yourself and your history with SC2
Why should you be a part of the North American Star League
Who are your biggest rivals?
How do you stand out from other players?
Name one player you'd like to see in the league
Anything else you'd like to add?
This videos must be in English, or English subtitles must be added (if player speaks a language other than English).
Application Deadlines
Team & Player Contracts (direct approach) due: MARCH 10th, 2011 11:59 p.m. PST
Player Applications (public) due: MARCH 11th, 2011 11:59 p.m. PST
Player Videos (direct approach) due: MARCH 13th, 2011 11:59 p.m. PST
Team & Player Contracts (from public application) due: MARCH 16th, 2011 11:59 p.m. PST
Players notified of acceptance/rejection: MARCH 18th, 2011 11:59 p.m. PST
$250 security deposit per player due: MARCH 20th, 2011 11:59 p.m. PST
Currently we've only received two applications. Note that there are 9 days left for us to receive public applications, so if you or your team leaders haven't been directly contacted by me before -- you must do this!
I'll answer questions about the application process and such. I won't be fielding any questions about the rules, format of the league, etc etc. All of those will be answered in the Q&A Thread.
Looking forward to team&player applications! GL&HF
Can't wait to see the player videos. Just imagine TLO saying "my biggest rivals are Huk cos he cannon rushes me and WhiteRa cos he's the reason I don't win more tournaments.
Someone should translate this for PlayXP/other sites, considering how soon the deadlines are. It's more difficult to complete something this complex when it's not completely understandable in your own language; the subtitle part is an especially stiff demand. I really hope you make the process fair for Korean teams rather than it being a possible reason for their exclusion.
On March 03 2011 09:18 doihy wrote: How is this going to be shown to the Koreans?
I'm sure the top korean teams were approached already so if they want to sign players up they will be able to. The disincentive for them would be lag, however.
On March 03 2011 09:18 doihy wrote: How is this going to be shown to the Koreans?
I'm sure the top korean teams were approached already so if they want to sign players up they will be able to. The disincentive for them would be lag, however.
I doubt lag will have any effect on them winning the tournament. Though it would be nice to know what teams that they have contacted alrdy.
The only thing which worries me slightly is that i can only think of a handful of actual, professional, sponsored teams who can Pay and vouch for their players. How is a mid level team or a team like Root meant to scrape $1250 to send their tean to nasl?
On March 03 2011 09:53 Frack wrote: The only thing which worries me slightly is that i can only think of a handful of actual, professional, sponsored teams who can Pay and vouch for their players. How is a mid level team or a team like Root meant to scrape $1250 to send their tean to nasl?
to be fair its just a deposit, which they get back if they attend im assuming
On March 03 2011 09:53 Frack wrote: The only thing which worries me slightly is that i can only think of a handful of actual, professional, sponsored teams who can Pay and vouch for their players. How is a mid level team or a team like Root meant to scrape $1250 to send their tean to nasl?
It's just a deposit, I doubt that none of them don't have any money in the bank
If your players do their jobs, teams get the money back. Compare to MLG: $70 entry fee (non refundable) per event, not to mention flight cost & hotel for each event.
On March 03 2011 09:49 avilo wrote: Any other top player not on a "team" yet here want to form a "2 man team" with me? Otherwise i'm gonna have to submit "team avilo" lmao
Lol find a manager who can also be a 1 dollar sponsor. The team rules seem a bit ridiculous... hahaha. It seems like they openly said "ehh.. ya you can just kind of throw a team together if you'd like just to get around our own rules."
I hope to start seeing the videos soon. I heard a few were already sent in so it'd be nice to see some ahead of time (which I think Xeris already said would be the case) so that I don't have to watch them all at once.
The requirements for application seem excessive. Are there so many problems with organizing tournaments like MLG, DreamHack, IEM, ESL that these kind of precautions have to be taken? I don't understand why these requirements are in place. Can someone explain it to me?
This seems more like an application for a reality show than a competitive tournament.
On March 03 2011 08:00 Chill wrote: Coming from a project scheduling background, I find 2 days to get $250 / player together extremely aggressive. It's borderline unreasonable.
I think you should extend that to at least a week.
Coming from a project management background, I agree as well.
But I'm assuming if White-Ra is two days late with his payment, NASL will exercise common sense and leniency. I hope.
On March 03 2011 10:01 Xeris wrote: If your players do their jobs, teams get the money back. Compare to MLG: $70 entry fee (non refundable) per event, not to mention flight cost & hotel for each event.
$250 really isnt that much considering the above. Im sure its more than $250 for a single weekend tourny in the US after all costs. Its not meant to be something that excludes players, and really wont be.
Glad to see the next step in the NASL develop, look forward to seeing more!
Im not saying they wont get their money back, but $250 maybe nothing to some but to professional sc2 players who make their living off of coaching, have rent and bills to pay its an expense that can be hard to come by.
On March 03 2011 10:07 Aurdon wrote: The requirements for application seem excessive. Are there so many problems with organizing tournaments like MLG, DreamHack, IEM, ESL that these kind of precautions have to be taken? I don't understand why these requirements are in place. Can someone explain it to me?
This seems more like an application for a reality show than a competitive tournament.
The only requirements for those tournaments are to show up and play games. Having these rules and making sure people follow them shows a level of professionalism by the person/team who have to follow the rules. If you can't get your shit together and make a video and submit a small application, then I have doubts that as a team or person you will make all of your matches on time or other obligations.
On the $250 subject, if you're attempting to play sc2 professionaly/semi-professionaly and you or your team don't have $250 to deposit, I'd say you have bigger issues than getting into the NASL.
On March 03 2011 09:53 Frack wrote: The only thing which worries me slightly is that i can only think of a handful of actual, professional, sponsored teams who can Pay and vouch for their players. How is a mid level team or a team like Root meant to scrape $1250 to send their tean to nasl?
The truth is, $1250 is not that money in the light of the tournament value and the size of the event. Flying people to the event however, even with the stipend, may be tough if they're coming from the east coast or overseas.
On March 03 2011 10:07 Aurdon wrote: The requirements for application seem excessive. Are there so many problems with organizing tournaments like MLG, DreamHack, IEM, ESL that these kind of precautions have to be taken? I don't understand why these requirements are in place. Can someone explain it to me?
This seems more like an application for a reality show than a competitive tournament.
Our goal is to create a league in which the audience can relate to the players. We want to highlight the players as much as possible, and to create as much content as possible. Having video interaction is a great way to go about doing it :D
On March 03 2011 10:07 Aurdon wrote: The requirements for application seem excessive. Are there so many problems with organizing tournaments like MLG, DreamHack, IEM, ESL that these kind of precautions have to be taken? I don't understand why these requirements are in place. Can someone explain it to me?
This seems more like an application for a reality show than a competitive tournament.
The only requirements for those tournaments are to show up and play games. Having these rules and making sure people follow them shows a level of professionalism by the person/team who have to follow the rules. If you can't get your shit together and make a video and submit a small application, then I have doubts that as a team or person you will make all of your matches on time or other obligations.
On the $250 subject, if you're attempting to play sc2 professionaly/semi-professionaly and you or your team don't have $250 to deposit, I'd say you have bigger issues than getting into the NASL.
Technically, if a team has 5 players in the tournament it's a total of 1250, not 250.
On March 03 2011 10:07 Aurdon wrote: The requirements for application seem excessive. Are there so many problems with organizing tournaments like MLG, DreamHack, IEM, ESL that these kind of precautions have to be taken? I don't understand why these requirements are in place. Can someone explain it to me?
This seems more like an application for a reality show than a competitive tournament.
This is more than a single tournament where if a single player doesnt show up there is just a minor bracket revision. This is a league with a goal of professionalism and expanding esports- as such, the players need to be able to dedicate via contract to the NASL.
As for the video, I assume it does two things: 1) helps with the application, although Im sure a random diamond with a great video wont get in... and 2) is a part of the show.
First, the $400,000 jumped out of nowhere and I thought it would be the first place price for a single season. Then I realized, "no", it's a prize pool for a single season. Then there comes, "no", it's not, it's $100,000 per season. Now, I'm not sure if this $100,000 would include studio rental, professional cameras, computers, and all the little fees.
And the biggest question, I'm not sure if it's been asked before, is "what are the prizes?" for 1st, 2nd, 3rd,.......There is nothing more important than this information. However, I've never seen anyone ask this before.
As far as I know, a video cam for a professional tournament or TV costs anywhere between $10,000 and $100,000 alone. And I've seen at least 3 cameras in the GOMTV studio including the one pointing at Tastosis.
I don't think anyone would throw out $400,000 without considering all the little thing like camera, PC's, broadcast table, and all the lighting and decorations,......
On March 03 2011 10:07 Aurdon wrote: The requirements for application seem excessive. Are there so many problems with organizing tournaments like MLG, DreamHack, IEM, ESL that these kind of precautions have to be taken? I don't understand why these requirements are in place. Can someone explain it to me?
This seems more like an application for a reality show than a competitive tournament.
The only requirements for those tournaments are to show up and play games. Having these rules and making sure people follow them shows a level of professionalism by the person/team who have to follow the rules. If you can't get your shit together and make a video and submit a small application, then I have doubts that as a team or person you will make all of your matches on time or other obligations.
On the $250 subject, if you're attempting to play sc2 professionaly/semi-professionaly and you or your team don't have $250 to deposit, I'd say you have bigger issues than getting into the NASL.
Technically, if a team has 5 players in the tournament it's a total of 1250, not 250.
Hence the reason I also included "you or your team", despite having to be on a team.
On March 03 2011 10:13 nart wrote: This is my impression of this tournament so far:
First, the $400,000 jumped out of nowhere and I thought it would be the first place price for a single season. Then I realized, "no", it's a prize pool for a single season. Then there comes, "no", it's not, it's $100,000 per season. Now, I'm not sure if this $100,000 would include studio rental, professional cameras, computers, and all the little fees.
And the biggest question, I'm not sure if it's been asked before, is "what are the prizes?" for 1st, 2nd, 3rd,.......There is nothing more important than this information. However, I've never seen anyone ask this before.
I'm sure Xeris has already emailed the team managers with the info on the prize pool allocations. It wouldn't make sense for teams to commit to a league without all the details and info regarding prize pool distributions.
That means if no one else applies but me I could get 3rd place and however many thousand dollars while losing every match.
Interesting.
On a serious note, I'm guessing teams are just trying to figure out which of their players can make it and want to compete. NASL seems like its going to be legit, but it all comes down to the skill level of the players to determine if I'll purchase the "HD Ticket" + Show Spoiler +
And just to vent my personal frustration I HATE the fact that most big leagues (MLG, NASL, GSL) require you to pay money to watch their games. HD is a REQUIREMENT in our world now, the fact that they are nickel-and-dimeing loyal followers is just ridiculous. Look at the major sports who all have FREE HD broadcasts. It doesn't matter that they have more money, anyone can broadcast a show in HD at little cost on the internet.
Back on topic: I see that the public announcement of players begins near the end of March. Will there be any list of applications/videos or anything like that made public before hand? Like a few people have stated, it would be fun to see.
That means if no one else applies but me I could get 3rd place and however many thousand dollars while losing every match.
Interesting.
On a serious note, I'm guessing teams are just trying to figure out which of their players can make it and want to compete. NASL seems like its going to be legit, but it all comes down to the skill level of the players to determine if I'll purchase the "HD Ticket" + Show Spoiler +
And just to vent my personal frustration I HATE the fact that most big leagues (MLG, NASL, GSL) require you to pay money to watch their games. HD is a REQUIREMENT in our world now, the fact that they are nickel-and-dimeing loyal followers is just ridiculous. Look at the major sports who all have FREE HD broadcasts. It doesn't matter that they have more money, anyone can broadcast a show in HD at little cost on the internet.
actually you have to buy some sort of cable to watch most sports in HD, so that HD isn't really for free. To watch sports on your computer, MLB.TV charges you a pretty hefty price and that isn't in HD. it's not free to watch sports. Also, E-sports really needs people to dump money into it to show that it is growing and that sponsors will make money back from investing in the game. That's how Capitalism works >.>
Sorry if that was off topic. Reading a post where someone says "HD is a requirement in our world" is a little silly...Will you die if you don't get HD? >.>
That means if no one else applies but me I could get 3rd place and however many thousand dollars while losing every match.
Interesting.
On a serious note, I'm guessing teams are just trying to figure out which of their players can make it and want to compete. NASL seems like its going to be legit, but it all comes down to the skill level of the players to determine if I'll purchase the "HD Ticket" + Show Spoiler +
And just to vent my personal frustration I HATE the fact that most big leagues (MLG, NASL, GSL) require you to pay money to watch their games. HD is a REQUIREMENT in our world now, the fact that they are nickel-and-dimeing loyal followers is just ridiculous. Look at the major sports who all have FREE HD broadcasts. It doesn't matter that they have more money, anyone can broadcast a show in HD at little cost on the internet.
since when is TV free? 25$ for 135 hours of content, and that's not even including the live tournament? please, totally worth it.
That means if no one else applies but me I could get 3rd place and however many thousand dollars while losing every match.
Interesting.
On a serious note, I'm guessing teams are just trying to figure out which of their players can make it and want to compete. NASL seems like its going to be legit, but it all comes down to the skill level of the players to determine if I'll purchase the "HD Ticket" + Show Spoiler +
And just to vent my personal frustration I HATE the fact that most big leagues (MLG, NASL, GSL) require you to pay money to watch their games. HD is a REQUIREMENT in our world now, the fact that they are nickel-and-dimeing loyal followers is just ridiculous. Look at the major sports who all have FREE HD broadcasts. It doesn't matter that they have more money, anyone can broadcast a show in HD at little cost on the internet.
This just mean most of the big teams have been invited already.
Question: Hi, sir. Right now only one player in my team wants to apply NASL, do I have to get one more player to submit the application even he may not be accepted? Thanks.
A team is defined by us as two (2) or more players submitting a team application and providing a collective deposit, or as an entity that supports any number of players via sponsorships.
On March 03 2011 10:27 TheNessman wrote: lol a video.... why? what if someone doesn't have a camera? this is edit: i'm not gonna call you names, sorry :/
Who in the 21st century doesn't have access to a video camera O_O
That means if no one else applies but me I could get 3rd place and however many thousand dollars while losing every match.
Interesting.
On a serious note, I'm guessing teams are just trying to figure out which of their players can make it and want to compete. NASL seems like its going to be legit, but it all comes down to the skill level of the players to determine if I'll purchase the "HD Ticket" + Show Spoiler +
And just to vent my personal frustration I HATE the fact that most big leagues (MLG, NASL, GSL) require you to pay money to watch their games. HD is a REQUIREMENT in our world now, the fact that they are nickel-and-dimeing loyal followers is just ridiculous. Look at the major sports who all have FREE HD broadcasts. It doesn't matter that they have more money, anyone can broadcast a show in HD at little cost on the internet.
This just mean most of the big teams have been invited already.
I've said it before... I'll personally sponor any ammount of players that want to form a team and the only thing stopping them is a $250.00 refundable fee. All you have to do is follow the rules so I dont lose money.
On March 03 2011 10:10 Frack wrote: Im not saying they wont get their money back, but $250 maybe nothing to some but to professional sc2 players who make their living off of coaching, have rent and bills to pay its an expense that can be hard to come by.
$250 refundable fee to get to play in a $100,000 tournament. C'mon. That's amazingly lenient compared to other professional sports (which is what the NASL is aspiring to be).
That said, the Youtube "rivals" question is a hilarious set up to provide the backstories NASL people have been going on about. :D
On March 03 2011 09:53 Frack wrote: The only thing which worries me slightly is that i can only think of a handful of actual, professional, sponsored teams who can Pay and vouch for their players. How is a mid level team or a team like Root meant to scrape $1250 to send their tean to nasl?
I don't know if you heard, but like 1/3 of their team has lots of money from poker.
Have Korean teams been invited? I've seen this question be asked a few times but haven't seen an answer, and it seems very important to know if the top teams in the world have been given equal footing to compete (as some of the past comments made made this league feel like it was rather anti-Korean).
On March 03 2011 11:56 raist wrote: I thought this was going to be a professional league? That kid doesn't seem very professional to me.
Just because he applied doesn't mean he'll get accepted. It's still a good example application, in that it shows personality, answers the questions (albeit in this case a bit silly).
As for the person who asked "what if they don't have a camera" - any professional team that doesn't have, and won't buy, a $50 camera for this doesn't want it bad enough, and thus doesn't belong in it.
I thought this was going to be a professional league? That kid doesn't seem very professional to me.
You are mad at an 18 year old for having fun with an interview process that is SUPPOSED to be entertaining? A professional league doesn't mean no levity, it means that it runs properly, it is high-quality, it does what it says it will do, and it expects REASONABLE behavior. Calling out someone as loud and whiny as Avilo is perfectly reasonable as long as you are sane.
I thought this was going to be a professional league? That kid doesn't seem very professional to me.
Ehh this ain't professional chess mate, lol. As much as I hate the pro wrestling stuff myself, I want eSports to hit it big in the west. And pro wrestling stuff creates story lines/fake rivalries which makes season tickets sell easier. Easy as that.
On March 03 2011 11:51 esaul17 wrote: Have Korean teams been invited? I've seen this question be asked a few times but haven't seen an answer, and it seems very important to know if the top teams in the world have been given equal footing to compete (as some of the past comments made made this league feel like it was rather anti-Korean).
On March 03 2011 10:01 Xeris wrote: If your players do their jobs, teams get the money back. Compare to MLG: $70 entry fee (non refundable) per event, not to mention flight cost & hotel for each event.
This is fully an online event as qualifiers into a LAN final. MLG is fully a offline open-to-all LAN event. Not even close to the same thing.
On March 03 2011 11:51 esaul17 wrote: Have Korean teams been invited? I've seen this question be asked a few times but haven't seen an answer, and it seems very important to know if the top teams in the world have been given equal footing to compete (as some of the past comments made made this league feel like it was rather anti-Korean).
There will be no invitations, see the Q&A
Do you mean no invitations period, or no Korean invitations?
On March 03 2011 11:51 esaul17 wrote: Have Korean teams been invited? I've seen this question be asked a few times but haven't seen an answer, and it seems very important to know if the top teams in the world have been given equal footing to compete (as some of the past comments made made this league feel like it was rather anti-Korean).
There will be no invitations, see the Q&A
I thought Xeris said there is no cap on the amount of koreans participating in NASL. Why wouldn't he invite them? Incontrol mentioned that NASL wanted the best players to participate in the league, so I bet we'll see players like oGsMC, IMMvp, etc be in the league.
I tryed to submit myself as an idea directly after the showmatch, and it is still telling me that its pending moderator approval. Did I do something wrong?
I thought this was going to be a professional league? That kid doesn't seem very professional to me.
Ehh this ain't professional chess mate, lol. As much as I hate the pro wrestling stuff myself, I want eSports to hit it big in the west. And pro wrestling stuff creates story lines/fake rivalries which makes season tickets sell easier. Easy as that.
Pluh-ees, everybody knows that professionalism means wearing a suit, presenting formal documents and posting retarded things on tl.net. Go for it raist, you are 1/3 there.
On March 03 2011 11:51 esaul17 wrote: Have Korean teams been invited? I've seen this question be asked a few times but haven't seen an answer, and it seems very important to know if the top teams in the world have been given equal footing to compete (as some of the past comments made made this league feel like it was rather anti-Korean).
There will be no invitations, see the Q&A
I thought Xeris said there is no cap on the amount of koreans participating in NASL. Why wouldn't he invite them? Incontrol mentioned that NASL wanted the best players to participate in the league, so I bet we'll see players like oGsMC, IMMvp, etc be in the league.
That is what I am hoping, but the way the Q&A starts with saying "THIS IS NOT THE GSL, WE WON'T BRING KOREANS OVER" worries me that they may not be making an honest effort to bring the best players in the world into this tournament.
If this tournament ends up missing the majority of top Koreans, it won't really hold my interest. Crossing my fingers though, seeing people like oGsMC competing of foreigner soil would be really exciting.
On March 03 2011 11:51 esaul17 wrote: Have Korean teams been invited? I've seen this question be asked a few times but haven't seen an answer, and it seems very important to know if the top teams in the world have been given equal footing to compete (as some of the past comments made made this league feel like it was rather anti-Korean).
There will be no invitations, see the Q&A
I thought Xeris said there is no cap on the amount of koreans participating in NASL. Why wouldn't he invite them? Incontrol mentioned that NASL wanted the best players to participate in the league, so I bet we'll see players like oGsMC, IMMvp, etc be in the league.
Koreans: We're not GSL. Bringing in all the Koreans will just make this event the GSL. We are focusing on the growth of Western ESPORTS, by providing players and storylines that are more relatable to our audience. That being said there is no CAP on the number of Koreans who are eligible to participate in this tournament.
I mean NASL won't actively bring Koreans in, but they eligible should they apply.
On March 03 2011 12:10 Newguy wrote: I tryed to submit myself as an idea directly after the showmatch, and it is still telling me that its pending moderator approval. Did I do something wrong?
I apologize if I offended anyone, I wasn't trying to be rude, but it just caught me off guard, not really what I was expecting. Although this is just the first video, we'll see how the others come out
[*]A note on teams: A team is defined by us as two (2) or more players submitting a team application and providing a collective deposit, or as an entity that supports any number of players via sponsorships.
Xeris, can I be considered for this league or will this rule mess everything up?
My team Check-Six Gaming (www.check6gaming.com) has multiple players from different games but only 1 starcraft player (Me) right now. In the future we are going to pick up more SC2 players but I don't think its very fair that I am not allowed to apply when I am clearly on a legitimate team with sponsors. Please let me know, thank you!
[*]A note on teams: A team is defined by us as two (2) or more players submitting a team application and providing a collective deposit, or as an entity that supports any number of players via sponsorships.
Xeris, can I be considered for this league or will this rule mess everything up?
My team Check-Six Gaming (www.check6gaming.com) has multiple players from different games but only 1 starcraft player (Me) right now. In the future we are going to pick up more SC2 players but I don't think its very fair that I am not allowed to apply when I am clearly on a legitimate team with sponsors. Please let me know, thank you!
I can't see why not. In all honesty I don't think they can say no to you. You meet all the criteria
On March 03 2011 11:51 esaul17 wrote: Have Korean teams been invited? I've seen this question be asked a few times but haven't seen an answer, and it seems very important to know if the top teams in the world have been given equal footing to compete (as some of the past comments made made this league feel like it was rather anti-Korean).
There will be no invitations, see the Q&A
I thought Xeris said there is no cap on the amount of koreans participating in NASL. Why wouldn't he invite them? Incontrol mentioned that NASL wanted the best players to participate in the league, so I bet we'll see players like oGsMC, IMMvp, etc be in the league.
Koreans: We're not GSL. Bringing in all the Koreans will just make this event the GSL. We are focusing on the growth of Western ESPORTS, by providing players and storylines that are more relatable to our audience. That being said there is no CAP on the number of Koreans who are eligible to participate in this tournament.
I mean NASL won't actively bring Koreans in, but they eligible should they apply.
NASL would be shooting themselves in the foot if they don't invite the Koreans. It would directly contradict their mission of bringing the best players in the world to participate in NASL. Even TSL, IEM, Dreamhack invited Koreans to their tournaments. I doubt NASL would risk alienating part of the starcraft community by not having top Korean players participate.
On March 03 2011 11:51 esaul17 wrote: Have Korean teams been invited? I've seen this question be asked a few times but haven't seen an answer, and it seems very important to know if the top teams in the world have been given equal footing to compete (as some of the past comments made made this league feel like it was rather anti-Korean).
There will be no invitations, see the Q&A
I thought Xeris said there is no cap on the amount of koreans participating in NASL. Why wouldn't he invite them? Incontrol mentioned that NASL wanted the best players to participate in the league, so I bet we'll see players like oGsMC, IMMvp, etc be in the league.
Koreans: We're not GSL. Bringing in all the Koreans will just make this event the GSL. We are focusing on the growth of Western ESPORTS, by providing players and storylines that are more relatable to our audience. That being said there is no CAP on the number of Koreans who are eligible to participate in this tournament.
I mean NASL won't actively bring Koreans in, but they eligible should they apply.
On March 03 2011 12:10 Newguy wrote: I tryed to submit myself as an idea directly after the showmatch, and it is still telling me that its pending moderator approval. Did I do something wrong?
do you meet all if the requirements?
Yeah, I'm on a team and whatnot, I made sure before I applied. I wish I would get a reply, I've pmed Xeris as well, but no response yet.
[*]A note on teams: A team is defined by us as two (2) or more players submitting a team application and providing a collective deposit, or as an entity that supports any number of players via sponsorships.
Xeris, can I be considered for this league or will this rule mess everything up?
My team Check-Six Gaming (www.check6gaming.com) has multiple players from different games but only 1 starcraft player (Me) right now. In the future we are going to pick up more SC2 players but I don't think its very fair that I am not allowed to apply when I am clearly on a legitimate team with sponsors. Please let me know, thank you!
I think the "entity that supports any number of players via sponsorships" definitely covers your case dude.
On March 03 2011 12:22 raist wrote: I apologize if I offended anyone, I wasn't trying to be rude, but it just caught me off guard, not really what I was expecting. Although this is just the first video, we'll see how the others come out
No need to apologize, just look at the dates and it will be much clearer.
- Player Videos (direct approach) due: MARCH 13th, 2011 11:59 p.m. PST (hype) - Players notified of acceptance/rejection: MARCH 18th, 2011 11:59 p.m. PST - $250 security deposit per player due: MARCH 20th, 2011 11:59 p.m. PST (professionalism)
Im really looking forward to these interview vids, I feel like it's going to make the NASL much more emotionally exciting because we know the players as people instead of names.
Damn these interviews are going to be awesome. I can't wait to see all kinds of different personalities and how they do their interview. I hope CatZ sings in his.
On March 03 2011 12:39 Chicane wrote: Damn these interviews are going to be awesome. I can't wait to see all kinds of different personalities and how they do their interview. I hope CatZ sings in his.
I thought this was going to be a professional league? That kid doesn't seem very professional to me.
You are mad at an 18 year old for having fun with an interview process that is SUPPOSED to be entertaining? A professional league doesn't mean no levity, it means that it runs properly, it is high-quality, it does what it says it will do, and it expects REASONABLE behavior. Calling out someone as loud and whiny as Avilo is perfectly reasonable as long as you are sane.
Please, like the other random players around the forum, stop perpetuating the blind hate, or that I "am something" when the only thing I ever did to get flak from people is be outspoken about balance during a beta. Yes, a beta, of all things, in which you're supposed to give feedback.
So i'd appreciate it if you and every other random person that wants to jump on hate bandwagons would help put an end to it !
On March 03 2011 08:00 Chill wrote: Coming from a project scheduling background, I find 2 days to get $250 / player together extremely aggressive. It's borderline unreasonable.
I think you should extend that to at least a week.
I think the players may have already been picked, or contacted about the fees. I highly doubt they are going to let top teams/players sign up on their own when they already want the BEST players there. Probably just a way to build the suspense for all the players who would love a chance, but wont get it. But yea the amount of time given is pretty low and should increase the deadline. but like i said they probably have ALL the people they want competing on board already.
was looking through the vote pages, and from the looks of it, there is a couple of double entries, for example ST_July is on there twice should probably fix that.
[*]A note on teams: A team is defined by us as two (2) or more players submitting a team application and providing a collective deposit, or as an entity that supports any number of players via sponsorships.
Xeris, can I be considered for this league or will this rule mess everything up?
My team Check-Six Gaming (www.check6gaming.com) has multiple players from different games but only 1 starcraft player (Me) right now. In the future we are going to pick up more SC2 players but I don't think its very fair that I am not allowed to apply when I am clearly on a legitimate team with sponsors. Please let me know, thank you!
No offense... but I've specifically responded to you before. You've never contacted me personally, you haven't even submitted an application yet, not sure where you get the idea that you're not allowed to apply.
On March 03 2011 08:00 Chill wrote: Coming from a project scheduling background, I find 2 days to get $250 / player together extremely aggressive. It's borderline unreasonable.
I think you should extend that to at least a week.
ya, 2 days DOES seem a bit quick
however, i players/teams should have the money ready... it's not like they DON'T know about currently....
On March 03 2011 11:51 esaul17 wrote: Have Korean teams been invited? I've seen this question be asked a few times but haven't seen an answer, and it seems very important to know if the top teams in the world have been given equal footing to compete (as some of the past comments made made this league feel like it was rather anti-Korean).
I don't think they would want another IEM.
Back to topic, $250 refundable is fine, but make sure they won't use this money to invest (for example: stock) for profit.
The reason I and 25,000 other people on live IEM last night was because I wanted to see Idra and top foreigners battle against Koreans. Most people wouldn't want another TLO vs WHITERA. This type of video is free all over youtube.
[*]A note on teams: A team is defined by us as two (2) or more players submitting a team application and providing a collective deposit, or as an entity that supports any number of players via sponsorships.
Xeris, can I be considered for this league or will this rule mess everything up?
My team Check-Six Gaming (www.check6gaming.com) has multiple players from different games but only 1 starcraft player (Me) right now. In the future we are going to pick up more SC2 players but I don't think its very fair that I am not allowed to apply when I am clearly on a legitimate team with sponsors. Please let me know, thank you!
No offense... but I've specifically responded to you before. You've never contacted me personally, you haven't even submitted an application yet, not sure where you get the idea that you're not allowed to apply.
[*]A note on teams: A team is defined by us as two (2) or more players submitting a team application and providing a collective deposit, or as an entity that supports any number of players via sponsorships.
Xeris, can I be considered for this league or will this rule mess everything up?
My team Check-Six Gaming (www.check6gaming.com) has multiple players from different games but only 1 starcraft player (Me) right now. In the future we are going to pick up more SC2 players but I don't think its very fair that I am not allowed to apply when I am clearly on a legitimate team with sponsors. Please let me know, thank you!
No offense... but I've specifically responded to you before. You've never contacted me personally, you haven't even submitted an application yet, not sure where you get the idea that you're not allowed to apply.
Thanks Xeris I will apply soon!
=D! ofc.
Koreans were not directly invited, mostly just because I have no contacts with them. My msn is on almost 24/7 though =P
On March 03 2011 11:51 esaul17 wrote: Have Korean teams been invited? I've seen this question be asked a few times but haven't seen an answer, and it seems very important to know if the top teams in the world have been given equal footing to compete (as some of the past comments made made this league feel like it was rather anti-Korean).
I don't think they would want another IEM.
Back to topic, $250 refundable is fine, but make sure they won't use this money to invest (for example: stock) for profit.
Actually, I would hope that they are investing it. Not in stocks, but in the same manner that your security deposit gets invested when you rent an apartment. This is common practice a lot of places, and is even the law in some places.
They haven't mentioned anything like this, though. I hope they're doing it, though, even if they are not subject to by law, just because it's the professional thing to do. If a gaming team gives up $1250 for months on end, that's a fair chunk of change that they could have invested.
On March 03 2011 15:00 annul wrote: because NASL is going to be more like survivor than an actual tournament where skill is the sole determinant in who wins.
they refuse to allow sc2 to speak for itself as a draw, instead relying on 'drama' or similar such crap
There's going to be something for everyone. Relax and realize that they can't (like everyone else), please every single person with everything.
On March 03 2011 15:00 annul wrote: because NASL is going to be more like survivor than an actual tournament where skill is the sole determinant in who wins.
they refuse to allow sc2 to speak for itself as a draw, instead relying on 'drama' or similar such crap
If it's all about drama, why is there a deposit and drama fine?
[*]A note on teams: A team is defined by us as two (2) or more players submitting a team application and providing a collective deposit, or as an entity that supports any number of players via sponsorships.
Xeris, can I be considered for this league or will this rule mess everything up?
My team Check-Six Gaming (www.check6gaming.com) has multiple players from different games but only 1 starcraft player (Me) right now. In the future we are going to pick up more SC2 players but I don't think its very fair that I am not allowed to apply when I am clearly on a legitimate team with sponsors. Please let me know, thank you!
No offense... but I've specifically responded to you before. You've never contacted me personally, you haven't even submitted an application yet, not sure where you get the idea that you're not allowed to apply.
Thanks Xeris I will apply soon!
=D! ofc.
Koreans were not directly invited, mostly just because I have no contacts with them. My msn is on almost 24/7 though =P
Heh, passive denial of entry. They can easily apply by the specified upcoming deadlines, as long as they know exactly what to do and who to contact themselves. And the Korea vs the West "storyline" had so much potential, as that seems to be what you're looking for...
But I guess you're all tired of years of getting completely raped at WCG, if you've been around the scene anyways. Still, the mechanical skill ceiling gives foreigners much better chances, as does the latency and the fact that most of the talent is still in BW. NASL, to find the champion of the world™ (outside of Korea)!
On March 03 2011 15:00 annul wrote: because NASL is going to be more like survivor than an actual tournament where skill is the sole determinant in who wins.
they refuse to allow sc2 to speak for itself as a draw, instead relying on 'drama' or similar such crap
No, it's because a single tournament has tons of volatility... a complete nobody who just had a lucky streak or bracket can get in, whereas a deserving player who has placed well in many tournaments could have one bad game or get unlucky somehow even when he's much more deserving... It's a lot better to decide who gets in based on consistency and success in the past. We want to see the big names who we've seen in tournaments in the past duke it out. It's not like Destiny is going to get a slot just because he's so damn popular... Results speak for themselves.
Drama is part of sports and entertainment. If Esports is to grow in the West, it has to appeal to the casual audience who isn't a Starcraft junkie but enjoys watching and has favorite players, learns their backstories, etc. What difference does it make to you? The games will be just as good, and maybe if you can get your head out of your ass you'll realize that the way they're running this is the best thing for Esports in the West.
On March 03 2011 15:23 Techno wrote: I'm worried about how closed this will become to unknown players. How can a player without a team get into the NASL?
Win other tournaments and get picked up. Unknown players need to put in the time and establish that they should be competing with the known pro players. The NASL shouldn't be the proving ground for unknown players.
Its funny how people are complaining that only popular guys are getting in yet say in the GSL threads how this season isn't nearly as interesting or they won't pay attention to as much because big names like IMMVP, Idra, Fruitdealer and so on aren't there. It makes absolutely no sense.
And right now teams should be figuring out how to get the $250 for playing in the NASL. They have known about the entry fee since the announcement. $250 isn't that much honestly.
On March 03 2011 15:23 Techno wrote: I'm worried about how closed this will become to unknown players. How can a player without a team get into the NASL?
Win the open tournament and you'll be in the top 16 tournament.
I don't have a video camera or webcam and can't afford to go buy one, so it's impossible to get into NASL? I'm glad they have a poor-person filter on their player list.
On March 03 2011 15:43 Nightmarjoo wrote: I don't have a video camera or webcam and can't afford to go buy one, so it's impossible to get into NASL? I'm glad they have a poor-person filter on their player list.
You're not listening are you? You're supposed to have a team or play in the open qualifier for the top few spots. Also, you're telling me you don't know anybody in the entire world with a camera that you could borrow?
On March 03 2011 15:22 Welmu wrote: lol 2 days for team to get money -.-. That eliminates soo many players out =/
There are 17 days until March 20 and it was announced a while back that they would need $250 deposit. People that expect to be accepted shouldn't be surprised at this point by needing $250 in march for the NASL.
On March 03 2011 15:43 Nightmarjoo wrote: I don't have a video camera or webcam and can't afford to go buy one, so it's impossible to get into NASL? I'm glad they have a poor-person filter on their player list.
You're not listening are you? You're supposed to have a team or play in the open qualifier for the top few spots. Also, you're telling me you don't know anybody in the entire world with a camera that you could borrow?
Nightmarejoo is trying to be cute, let him have his moment
Koreans were not directly invited, mostly just because I have no contacts with them. My msn is on almost 24/7 though =P
How can such a supposedly professional league not make any effort to get contact info for the best teams in the world...
I don't mean to be starting hate or anything, but it really feels like a flimsy excuse to snub as many Koreans as possible. The GSL invites foreigners down and gives them living accommodations and seeds them into the tournament...and NASL doesn't even make an effort to talk to Koreans? It just feels like the NASL are afraid that if they bring over IMMvp and oGsMC all the foreigners will be raped.
I mean, didn't oGsTOP, a midlevel player in Korea get something like 3rd at dreamhack? And top level NA players like HuK are barely making it through code A and had to be seeded to get there.
Hopefully the NASL has opened more doors to Korea than they have let on, or Koreans manage to jump through all their hoops, because I'd hate to see the e-sports tournament to kick off things in North America have such an underpinning of racism.
On March 03 2011 15:00 annul wrote: because NASL is going to be more like survivor than an actual tournament where skill is the sole determinant in who wins.
they refuse to allow sc2 to speak for itself as a draw, instead relying on 'drama' or similar such crap
No, it's because a single tournament has tons of volatility... a complete nobody who just had a lucky streak or bracket can get in, whereas a deserving player who has placed well in many tournaments could have one bad game or get unlucky somehow even when he's much more deserving... It's a lot better to decide who gets in based on consistency and success in the past. We want to see the big names who we've seen in tournaments in the past duke it out. It's not like Destiny is going to get a slot just because he's so damn popular... Results speak for themselves.
Drama is part of sports and entertainment. If Esports is to grow in the West, it has to appeal to the casual audience who isn't a Starcraft junkie but enjoys watching and has favorite players, learns their backstories, etc. What difference does it make to you? The games will be just as good, and maybe if you can get your head out of your ass you'll realize that the way they're running this is the best thing for Esports in the West.
uh, no.
firstly, do NOT ad hominem. in fact i probably should not even reply to you, since ad hominems pretty much automatically lose you any argument. but alas.
your premise is utterly flawed. a tournament -- a league, even -- has one purpose: determine the best player. if a player wins NASL, they get to say "i was the best player out of this preselected group of 50 players with high charisma and not necessarily the best skill" which is NOT what we need in the west to grow esports.
sports fans in the west view it as a meritocracy. who can produce the best results? do you think the NFL recruits players due to their personality? of course not, it's who can run the fastest 40, or who can kick the 50 yard field goals, etc. and yet people still go and still watch?
or, perhaps an individual sport is a better example: tennis. do you think if, for example, some random guy beats federer in the semifinals of wimbledon and some other random beats nadal in the other semifinals, that nobody is going to watch the finals? of course they will, because people watch for the sport, not the people. i can watch tennis and not know shit about who is actually playing, but if they can perform well on a technical level, its awesome to see.
people sit on their couches and watch march madness for hours on end and the "casual fan" almost certainly knows less than 5% of the people they see on the court on any given day.
i think NASL made a huge mistake in their calculation as to what people actually want to see to grow esports in the west. if there is even a chance that the 50th best skilled player with intent to attend is barred due to "charisma" or whatever the hell irrelevant trait they come up with, and in his/her place goes the 51st (or worse) skilled player but with higher charisma, then NASL is a complete joke. ;\
Koreans were not directly invited, mostly just because I have no contacts with them. My msn is on almost 24/7 though =P
How can such a supposedly professional league not make any effort to get contact info for the best teams in the world...
I don't mean to be starting hate or anything, but it really feels like a flimsy excuse to snub as many Koreans as possible. The GSL invites foreigners down and gives them living accommodations and seeds them into the tournament...and NASL doesn't even make an effort to talk to Koreans? It just feels like the NASL are afraid that if they bring over IMMvp and oGsMC all the foreigners will be raped.
I mean, didn't oGsTOP, a midlevel player in Korea get something like 3rd at dreamhack? And top level NA players like HuK are barely making it through code A and had to be seeded to get there.
Hopefully the NASL has opened more doors to Korea than they have let on, or Koreans manage to jump through all their hoops, because I'd hate to see the e-sports tournament to kick off things in North America have such an underpinning of racism.
From the Official NASL FAQ Thread:
Koreans: We're not GSL. Bringing in all the Koreans will just make this event the GSL. We are focusing on the growth of Western ESPORTS, by providing players and storylines that are more relatable to our audience. That being said there is no CAP on the number of Koreans who are eligible to participate in this tournament.
Koreans were not directly invited, mostly just because I have no contacts with them. My msn is on almost 24/7 though =P
How can such a supposedly professional league not make any effort to get contact info for the best teams in the world...
I don't mean to be starting hate or anything, but it really feels like a flimsy excuse to snub as many Koreans as possible. The GSL invites foreigners down and gives them living accommodations and seeds them into the tournament...and NASL doesn't even make an effort to talk to Koreans? It just feels like the NASL are afraid that if they bring over IMMvp and oGsMC all the foreigners will be raped.
I mean, didn't oGsTOP, a midlevel player in Korea get something like 3rd at dreamhack? And top level NA players like HuK are barely making it through code A and had to be seeded to get there.
Hopefully the NASL has opened more doors to Korea than they have let on, or Koreans manage to jump through all their hoops, because I'd hate to see the e-sports tournament to kick off things in North America have such an underpinning of racism.
Koreans: We're not GSL. Bringing in all the Koreans will just make this event the GSL. We are focusing on the growth of Western ESPORTS, by providing players and storylines that are more relatable to our audience. That being said there is no CAP on the number of Koreans who are eligible to participate in this tournament.
I've read that...I'm not sure what point you are making by posting it, sorry.
Koreans were not directly invited, mostly just because I have no contacts with them. My msn is on almost 24/7 though =P
How can such a supposedly professional league not make any effort to get contact info for the best teams in the world...
I don't mean to be starting hate or anything, but it really feels like a flimsy excuse to snub as many Koreans as possible. The GSL invites foreigners down and gives them living accommodations and seeds them into the tournament...and NASL doesn't even make an effort to talk to Koreans? It just feels like the NASL are afraid that if they bring over IMMvp and oGsMC all the foreigners will be raped.
I mean, didn't oGsTOP, a midlevel player in Korea get something like 3rd at dreamhack? And top level NA players like HuK are barely making it through code A and had to be seeded to get there.
Hopefully the NASL has opened more doors to Korea than they have let on, or Koreans manage to jump through all their hoops, because I'd hate to see the e-sports tournament to kick off things in North America have such an underpinning of racism.
From the Official NASL FAQ Thread:
Koreans: We're not GSL. Bringing in all the Koreans will just make this event the GSL. We are focusing on the growth of Western ESPORTS, by providing players and storylines that are more relatable to our audience. That being said there is no CAP on the number of Koreans who are eligible to participate in this tournament.
I've read that...I'm not sure what point you are making by posting it, sorry.
The point is if the koreans want to play in this league its up to them to contact the nasl guys and not the other way around. Pretty simple isnt it ?. Xeris etc shouldnt be running after the koreans holding their hands for every step.
Koreans were not directly invited, mostly just because I have no contacts with them. My msn is on almost 24/7 though =P
How can such a supposedly professional league not make any effort to get contact info for the best teams in the world...
I don't mean to be starting hate or anything, but it really feels like a flimsy excuse to snub as many Koreans as possible. The GSL invites foreigners down and gives them living accommodations and seeds them into the tournament...and NASL doesn't even make an effort to talk to Koreans? It just feels like the NASL are afraid that if they bring over IMMvp and oGsMC all the foreigners will be raped.
I mean, didn't oGsTOP, a midlevel player in Korea get something like 3rd at dreamhack? And top level NA players like HuK are barely making it through code A and had to be seeded to get there.
Hopefully the NASL has opened more doors to Korea than they have let on, or Koreans manage to jump through all their hoops, because I'd hate to see the e-sports tournament to kick off things in North America have such an underpinning of racism.
From the Official NASL FAQ Thread:
Koreans: We're not GSL. Bringing in all the Koreans will just make this event the GSL. We are focusing on the growth of Western ESPORTS, by providing players and storylines that are more relatable to our audience. That being said there is no CAP on the number of Koreans who are eligible to participate in this tournament.
I've read that...I'm not sure what point you are making by posting it, sorry.
The point is if the koreans want to play in this league its up to them to contact the nasl guys and not the other way around. Pretty simple isnt it ?. Xeris etc shouldnt be running after the koreans holding their hands for every step.
I think given their close relationships with some Korean players, at least some will be getting this information via the TL guys in Korea or even Xeph (the guy who streams STC, Dongraegu etc.). It doesn't hurt the league to at least let them know themselves that it is going on though, I mean they choose who are invited in the end anyway...so if they want to make it Western-centric, then so be it...
The point is if the koreans want to play in this league its up to them to contact the nasl guys and not the other way around. Pretty simple isnt it ?. Xeris etc shouldnt be running after the koreans holding their hands for every step.
Atleast GSL puts effort in getting Foreigners to come. They have an entire website fully translated in ENGLISH and has created clear and defined rules to getting into GSL as a foreigner (whether it be participating in the Open Qualifiers earlier, or getting into the Foreigner house). NASL isn't providing any type of translation instructions for Koreans, how are Koreans suppose to know what to do? Is there even a Korean speaking representative on NASL where Korean teams can even contact? It's not going to be Geoff on MSN obviously.
On March 03 2011 15:00 annul wrote: because NASL is going to be more like survivor than an actual tournament where skill is the sole determinant in who wins.
they refuse to allow sc2 to speak for itself as a draw, instead relying on 'drama' or similar such crap
No, it's because a single tournament has tons of volatility... a complete nobody who just had a lucky streak or bracket can get in, whereas a deserving player who has placed well in many tournaments could have one bad game or get unlucky somehow even when he's much more deserving... It's a lot better to decide who gets in based on consistency and success in the past. We want to see the big names who we've seen in tournaments in the past duke it out. It's not like Destiny is going to get a slot just because he's so damn popular... Results speak for themselves.
Drama is part of sports and entertainment. If Esports is to grow in the West, it has to appeal to the casual audience who isn't a Starcraft junkie but enjoys watching and has favorite players, learns their backstories, etc. What difference does it make to you? The games will be just as good, and maybe if you can get your head out of your ass you'll realize that the way they're running this is the best thing for Esports in the West.
uh, no.
firstly, do NOT ad hominem. in fact i probably should not even reply to you, since ad hominems pretty much automatically lose you any argument. but alas.
your premise is utterly flawed. a tournament -- a league, even -- has one purpose: determine the best player. if a player wins NASL, they get to say "i was the best player out of this preselected group of 50 players with high charisma and not necessarily the best skill" which is NOT what we need in the west to grow esports.
sports fans in the west view it as a meritocracy. who can produce the best results? do you think the NFL recruits players due to their personality? of course not, it's who can run the fastest 40, or who can kick the 50 yard field goals, etc. and yet people still go and still watch?
or, perhaps an individual sport is a better example: tennis. do you think if, for example, some random guy beats federer in the semifinals of wimbledon and some other random beats nadal in the other semifinals, that nobody is going to watch the finals? of course they will, because people watch for the sport, not the people. i can watch tennis and not know shit about who is actually playing, but if they can perform well on a technical level, its awesome to see.
people sit on their couches and watch march madness for hours on end and the "casual fan" almost certainly knows less than 5% of the people they see on the court on any given day.
i think NASL made a huge mistake in their calculation as to what people actually want to see to grow esports in the west. if there is even a chance that the 50th best skilled player with intent to attend is barred due to "charisma" or whatever the hell irrelevant trait they come up with, and in his/her place goes the 51st (or worse) skilled player but with higher charisma, then NASL is a complete joke. ;\
and if some unknown player really was THAT good, they'd have already made a name for themselves winning some other tournament, no? they call it the US Open, but it really isn't open to anyone. you need sponsors, you need a coach, you need to be known. if you are just some nobody who's never done anything before then you don't play in the US Open, simple as that.
EVERYONE has had the opportunity to get into the NASL, it's called the huge number of past tournaments. you think someone who placed high in MLG or IEM or whatever isn't going to get invited? do you really think that taking the top 50 placers in some big tournament is going to truly determine the top 50 players? Maybe if this WAS tennis where there's always going to be another tournament a week down the road, that'd be okay even. But when you're talking about practically the make-or-break league for Western Esports so far, you want to get it right.
Anyway Xeris already hinted that it's possible they might expand the number of slots from the open tournament, and even if they don't, the top four from first season do automatically get seeded into the next season.
The point is if the koreans want to play in this league its up to them to contact the nasl guys and not the other way around. Pretty simple isnt it ?. Xeris etc shouldnt be running after the koreans holding their hands for every step.
Atleast GSL puts effort in getting Foreigners to come. They have an entire website fully translated in ENGLISH and has created clear and defined rules to getting into GSL as a foreigner (whether it be participating in the Open Qualifiers earlier, or getting into the Foreigner house). NASL isn't providing any type of translation instructions for Koreans, how are Koreans suppose to know what to do? Is there even a Korean speaking representative on NASL where Korean teams can even contact? It's not going to be Geoff on MSN obviously.
I get your point. However the NASL stated themselves that they are not the GSL. So they run the things their way. If you are a korean team and want to participate its up to you. If you have trouble with english get a translator. The NASL is an E-Sports event aimed at the western audience. Why should they have special treatment for koreans ?.
GOM just aims as their league name states: Global Starcraft II League at a global audience. NASL = North American Star League Do you see the difference.
On March 03 2011 15:00 annul wrote: because NASL is going to be more like survivor than an actual tournament where skill is the sole determinant in who wins.
they refuse to allow sc2 to speak for itself as a draw, instead relying on 'drama' or similar such crap
No, it's because a single tournament has tons of volatility... a complete nobody who just had a lucky streak or bracket can get in, whereas a deserving player who has placed well in many tournaments could have one bad game or get unlucky somehow even when he's much more deserving... It's a lot better to decide who gets in based on consistency and success in the past. We want to see the big names who we've seen in tournaments in the past duke it out. It's not like Destiny is going to get a slot just because he's so damn popular... Results speak for themselves.
Drama is part of sports and entertainment. If Esports is to grow in the West, it has to appeal to the casual audience who isn't a Starcraft junkie but enjoys watching and has favorite players, learns their backstories, etc. What difference does it make to you? The games will be just as good, and maybe if you can get your head out of your ass you'll realize that the way they're running this is the best thing for Esports in the West.
uh, no.
firstly, do NOT ad hominem. in fact i probably should not even reply to you, since ad hominems pretty much automatically lose you any argument. but alas.
your premise is utterly flawed. a tournament -- a league, even -- has one purpose: determine the best player. if a player wins NASL, they get to say "i was the best player out of this preselected group of 50 players with high charisma and not necessarily the best skill" which is NOT what we need in the west to grow esports.
sports fans in the west view it as a meritocracy. who can produce the best results? do you think the NFL recruits players due to their personality? of course not, it's who can run the fastest 40, or who can kick the 50 yard field goals, etc. and yet people still go and still watch?
or, perhaps an individual sport is a better example: tennis. do you think if, for example, some random guy beats federer in the semifinals of wimbledon and some other random beats nadal in the other semifinals, that nobody is going to watch the finals? of course they will, because people watch for the sport, not the people. i can watch tennis and not know shit about who is actually playing, but if they can perform well on a technical level, its awesome to see.
people sit on their couches and watch march madness for hours on end and the "casual fan" almost certainly knows less than 5% of the people they see on the court on any given day.
i think NASL made a huge mistake in their calculation as to what people actually want to see to grow esports in the west. if there is even a chance that the 50th best skilled player with intent to attend is barred due to "charisma" or whatever the hell irrelevant trait they come up with, and in his/her place goes the 51st (or worse) skilled player but with higher charisma, then NASL is a complete joke. ;\
It's not about who has "high charisma," but it is about having player who are presentable. In the real world appearances matter. You go to job interviews dressed in suit and tie or formal dress, you watch what you say and you act nice. Asking players to do this in a short video (if this is what you're arguing against, excuse me if I am incorrect in assuming so) is reasonable.
Also, it's in NASL's best interests to accept the best players. However, there comes to a point where you're looking at player A and player B and C and D, and there's really no way to tell who's the better player (look at the difficulty in trying to decide how good Code A players are in GSL, or how good foreigners are versus Koreans, or how an individual can go up and down over the course of months). If they choose player C because C seems more charismatic, it sucks for A B and D, but as long as they're not outright discriminating in some way (which I hope they don't), it'll be good for esports.
Sports are a form of televised entertainment, so it's about more than just the games themselves. The game comes first, and players who have no charisma or social ability whatsoever should get a chance to walk away with the first place trophy... but creating a filter to keep out the xXxNoobRaper player sounds good to me.
If I misunderstood what the prior conversation was about, or if I got too far off-topic, I apologize.
The point is if the koreans want to play in this league its up to them to contact the nasl guys and not the other way around. Pretty simple isnt it ?. Xeris etc shouldnt be running after the koreans holding their hands for every step.
Atleast GSL puts effort in getting Foreigners to come. They have an entire website fully translated in ENGLISH and has created clear and defined rules to getting into GSL as a foreigner (whether it be participating in the Open Qualifiers earlier, or getting into the Foreigner house). NASL isn't providing any type of translation instructions for Koreans, how are Koreans suppose to know what to do? Is there even a Korean speaking representative on NASL where Korean teams can even contact? It's not going to be Geoff on MSN obviously.
I get your point. However the NASL stated themselves that they are not the GSL. So they run the things their way. If you are a korean team and want to participate its up to you. If you have trouble with english get a translator. The NASL is an E-Sports event aimed at the western audience. Why should they have special treatment for koreans ?.
GOM just aims as their league name states: Global Starcraft II League at a global audience. NASL = North American Star League Do you see the difference.
I think not having some sort of translated webpage for Koreans would be ridiculous. I say "would be" because I think the only reason there isn't one is because this is still early in NASL's creation... there will be a lot of rough edges until things get smoothed out.
The point is if the koreans want to play in this league its up to them to contact the nasl guys and not the other way around. Pretty simple isnt it ?. Xeris etc shouldnt be running after the koreans holding their hands for every step.
Atleast GSL puts effort in getting Foreigners to come. They have an entire website fully translated in ENGLISH and has created clear and defined rules to getting into GSL as a foreigner (whether it be participating in the Open Qualifiers earlier, or getting into the Foreigner house). NASL isn't providing any type of translation instructions for Koreans, how are Koreans suppose to know what to do? Is there even a Korean speaking representative on NASL where Korean teams can even contact? It's not going to be Geoff on MSN obviously.
I get your point. However the NASL stated themselves that they are not the GSL. So they run the things their way. If you are a korean team and want to participate its up to you. If you have trouble with english get a translator. The NASL is an E-Sports event aimed at the western audience. Why should they have special treatment for koreans ?.
GOM just aims as their league name states: Global Starcraft II League at a global audience. NASL = North American Star League Do you see the difference.
Sorry, but what kind of attitude is that?
Nobody is asking for "special" treatments for koreans. The community is merely asking for some manners and kindness.
NASL could just hire one translator to do the website in korean and just send a mail to Xeph that has contacts with the progamers. Heck, there are probably koreans here on the forums that would do the translation for free (I would do it if I could speak korean, I speak swedish and I would do the translation for free to swedish if there was a demand for it). Isn't that much easier and better for the SC2 community rather than the attitude: "If you are a korean team and want to participate its up to you. If you have trouble with english get a translator."
Is that way too much asked?
We just want to see good games. Most of us don't care about the nationality of the player, we just want to see the best of the best duke out and if we, as a community, can help out to make this process easier many of us are ready to help out.
hmm i wish this whole thing was simpler. i just think the whole getting in process is sloppy. you got votes, unknown invites, youtube application, and one big tournament to decide 1 person to get in.
im just hoping we get to see quality players in and not just because their popular. I could see this thing become almost as bad as watching code A in the early GSLs if they base it on that.
The point is if the koreans want to play in this league its up to them to contact the nasl guys and not the other way around. Pretty simple isnt it ?. Xeris etc shouldnt be running after the koreans holding their hands for every step.
Atleast GSL puts effort in getting Foreigners to come. They have an entire website fully translated in ENGLISH and has created clear and defined rules to getting into GSL as a foreigner (whether it be participating in the Open Qualifiers earlier, or getting into the Foreigner house). NASL isn't providing any type of translation instructions for Koreans, how are Koreans suppose to know what to do? Is there even a Korean speaking representative on NASL where Korean teams can even contact? It's not going to be Geoff on MSN obviously.
I get your point. However the NASL stated themselves that they are not the GSL. So they run the things their way. If you are a korean team and want to participate its up to you. If you have trouble with english get a translator. The NASL is an E-Sports event aimed at the western audience. Why should they have special treatment for koreans ?.
GOM just aims as their league name states: Global Starcraft II League at a global audience. NASL = North American Star League Do you see the difference.
I think not having some sort of translated webpage for Koreans would be ridiculous. I say "would be" because I think the only reason there isn't one is because this is still early in NASL's creation... there will be a lot of rough edges until things get smoothed out.
I disagree. English is the language of the internet. Like he said, it's an NA tourney, not a Global tourney. Global includes NA, hence GSL's English site. NA does not include Korea, hence no Korean.
And saying "just get one translator for the site" is a bit silly. Why not get one Swahili translator? One Farsi translator? One Swedish translator? One Norwegian? German? French? Italian?
You could say "But Koreans dominate the scene!" But then that is asking for special treatment.
English is the language of the internet, it's generally accepted by everyone outside of China, Korea, and Japan.
Edit: This all just reminds me of a WoW vid made by a french guy, in French, with no English subtitles, and Swedish and German people were saying "why isn't this in English? Everyone accepts that as the language of the internet".
i really dont know what the problem with the koreans is here, that some people create.
Its a north american league and if a korean really wants to participate then he has to put some effort into his application by himself, like every other player in the world that wants to play in this league. why do koreans need some special babysitter treatement, they are not more stupid then any european or south american or whatever.
they don't exclude koreans beforehand, thats 100% fine and everything that is needed. so if some koreans put some effort into it and really want to play in this league, they can.
you can't compare GOM and NASL at all, cause GOM tries to sell a product at the international market, their international stream in english. to make that even possible they of course need to have an english translation of their website and they additionally put some effort into being attractive for foreigner players to come and compete to make the league even more exciting to watch for foreigners.
NASL is an american based product that for the moment as far as we all know will only try to sell one stream, an english one. if they want to make money in korea and offer a korean stream aswell, you can be 100% sure that they will launch a korean website and will try to attract more koreans to play immediatly, as long as that is not the case there is no need at all to do so.
i really hope there wont be any koreans to play at all, cause if there will be some then their count has to be really high to make the league still somewhat attractive. if there would be like only 4 or so koreans competing, the nasl would just be boring and sooo predictable, cause you already know who will be in the semis. if you dont believe me + Show Spoiler +
I for one would be unhappy to see more Koreans in this tournament than there are foreigners in the GSL. This league should be used to build up the starcraft / ESPORTS infrastructure in the West. I don't give a shit if the "best players" are not there. The only reason they are "better" is because they have team houses and an economic model that lets them do nothing but practice. There are huge barriers to entry for foreigners in gsl, namely moving to Korea and Code A. If we want any chance in the long run to develop a real pro scene in the west, we need events with comparable barriers to Koreans, or else eventually every pro event will turn into a showcase of the Korean team model.
I think the conplainers in this thread don't understand what's meant by "ESPORTS in the west.". It's not just "having tournaments in the west which are otherwise indistinguishable from gsl.". It means "having a pro scene in the west that can develop teams and players so that korea is no longer the only place where you can really be a professional starcraft player.".
I really hope NASL sticks to their guns on this and doesn't give in to pressure from the elitists on TL who don't want to watch anyone but Koreans play.
On March 03 2011 11:51 esaul17 wrote: Have Korean teams been invited? I've seen this question be asked a few times but haven't seen an answer, and it seems very important to know if the top teams in the world have been given equal footing to compete (as some of the past comments made made this league feel like it was rather anti-Korean).
There will be no invitations, see the Q&A
Actually the whole first season is basically an invitation. Only difference players that get invited have to apply first. You cannot call it anything else when there are no OPEN qualifiers to determine the 50 players.
Level of competition should be at the forefront. If there aren't a couple of Koreans at least representing that area/skill, NASL is right that it won't be the GSL. It'll be considered a B-League the moment that people figure out the top players in the sport aren't even in the league. It's the same reason why Arena Football is seen as a joke in the states because everyone knows the tip-top players are in the NFL. You really don't want to be hit with that stigma from the start.
After watching IEM, I say screwed the Koreans lol. I was thinking that the skill gap would lessen since SC2 is so big in the West, but boy, aren't I wrong about that.
I personally have a lot fun watching foreigners duke it out between each other even though it's not the highest skilled games.
I am probably in the minority tho, seems like the most of TL is very Hallyu.
On March 03 2011 22:11 Hrrrrm wrote: Level of competition should be at the forefront. If there aren't a couple of Koreans at least representing that area/skill, NASL is right that it won't be the GSL. It'll be considered a B-League ...
... by the oldschool broodwar TL user elite, who likes to see korean faces not showing any emotion at all.
But its totally fine to be considered a B-League by those guys, still the B, C and D leagues already existing out there get some decent viewer numbers.
On March 03 2011 22:11 Hrrrrm wrote: It's the same reason why Arena Football is seen as a joke in the states because everyone knows the tip-top players are in the NFL. You really don't want to be hit with that stigma from the start.
your sports comparison is just dumb, but k kindda understandable regarding the american sports perspective. the soccer leagues here all over europe are extremly popular in their countries and nobody watching the german league every weekend goes to the stadium with a sad face, close to tears, that he has to watch B level soccer, cause the considered best league in the world is in england. you also maybe wont believe that there are people outside of the usa who ENJOY watching ice hockey in their local leagues and still know that the best matches are played in the NHL. and those people are totally aware of that fact and will somewhat follow the NHL aswell, like we all enjoy and follow the GSL even after the NASL will be finally started.
I'd say organize everything, set up this first season to get the feel of it all before inviting koreans.
For new players and those watching the NASL just to see what it is, I'm sure they will be more interested in watching western player. Even if Koreans skillcap is a bit higher we do need more focus on the western players. HuK and Gracken are 2 NA heroes. We need more publicity for the american community, not the korean. While this sounds harsh I do believe this is the right wy to go atleast for the 1st season.
Let NASL grow in popularity and get some PR for it, make people curious about it even those not interested in e-Sports in general. This (i believe) is much easier with an all western season than having the pro scene of korea dominating NASL on the first season.
On March 03 2011 23:26 Naniwa wrote: lol that they need a video to apply
Yeah it's such a bad idea for the production to have a back story and a face to put to a name on the screen. SO TERRIBLE.
/sarcasm
To be fair, I don't think shew's mortal starcraft 2 enemy is avilo. I think it was said in tongue in cheek. I wouldn't put too much importance on the back story as it's more about entertainment than facts. Anyway, all of us know what the starcraft 2 pros look like. Are you telling me you don't know what TLO looks like?
If gamers didn't get any notification regarding the NASL participation, meaning no direct contact before, does he need to film himself answering all the questions listed above?
I am just a little confused whether the video is required only for players who you reached in Feb.
Otherwise all types of applicants have to make the kind of a video?
On March 04 2011 00:00 nathangonmad wrote: Oh god, whats with all these stupid videos? Am I the only one whos actually interested in people simply playing starcraft?
So, when you like some player, you never got curious to know a little more about him?
On March 03 2011 23:26 Naniwa wrote: lol that they need a video to apply
Agreed. The good this will bring doesn't come close to the amount of trouble it'll cause.
You can record the player interviews when they come to compete just like in the GSL.
This is an online tournament for the majority of the season until the 16 person LAN-finals. So no, they can't record player interviews. What sort of trouble will this cause? Who in this day and age doesn't have some access to even a crappy webcam?
Don't spout off nonsense if you don't know how the league is going to work. You're not doing anyone any good.
On March 04 2011 00:00 nathangonmad wrote: Oh god, whats with all these stupid videos? Am I the only one whos actually interested in people simply playing starcraft?
Wait, are there more out there than the one of LGShew?
On March 03 2011 23:26 Naniwa wrote: lol that they need a video to apply
Yeah it's such a bad idea for the production to have a back story and a face to put to a name on the screen. SO TERRIBLE.
/sarcasm
So those who have a spot/have been invited will also make such a video before locking theyre spot?
I'm confused by this, too. Judging from naniwa's post, it seems only the people who need to apply will have to submit videos. While the invited players are off the hook.
It sounded like everyone was supposed to have a video, as they were going to use them to create more story for the players. That could be incorrect though.
On March 03 2011 23:26 Naniwa wrote: lol that they need a video to apply
Yeah it's such a bad idea for the production to have a back story and a face to put to a name on the screen. SO TERRIBLE.
/sarcasm
So those who have a spot/have been invited will also make such a video before locking theyre spot?
I'm confused by this, too. Judging from naniwa's post, it seems only the people who need to apply will have to submit videos. While the invited players are off the hook.
I think the "invited people" will still need to submit videos and applications, since there aren't actually individual "invited people" but rather teams who have been invited to submit players. Not every player from those teams automatically gets in. They've presumably invited TL to send some players, but if TL were to send, say, Liquid'Drone, there would probably be some serious thought given to an application before they let him in.
On March 03 2011 23:26 Naniwa wrote: lol that they need a video to apply
Yeah it's such a bad idea for the production to have a back story and a face to put to a name on the screen. SO TERRIBLE.
/sarcasm
So those who have a spot/have been invited will also make such a video before locking theyre spot?
I'm confused by this, too. Judging from naniwa's post, it seems only the people who need to apply will have to submit videos. While the invited players are off the hook.
I think the "invited people" will still need to submit videos and applications, since there aren't actually individual "invited people" but rather teams who have been invited to submit players. Not every player from those teams automatically gets in. They've presumably invited TL to send some players, but if TL were to send, say, Liquid'Drone, there would probably be some serious thought given to an application before they let him in.
I think you're right. Xeris sent the invitations to the teams and not individual players. I wouldn't be surprised if some players call their teammates as their rival. It's fun and it avoids controversy.
On March 03 2011 15:00 annul wrote: because NASL is going to be more like survivor than an actual tournament where skill is the sole determinant in who wins.
they refuse to allow sc2 to speak for itself as a draw, instead relying on 'drama' or similar such crap
If it's all about drama, why is there a deposit and drama fine?
because there will be much drama about the drama fine after the drama...
i reeeaaaally hope those applications don't scare anyone off or fuck up the application for some people who would otherwise be totally capable of competing in the league
I think everyone arguing about Korean versus Foriegner skill should wait for TSL3 so that we can get a really good opinion of it, rather than IEM which was a relatively small sample size. Sure the absolute best arte probably gonna be korean, but right up there are Jinro and IdrA, and personally I don´t see a difference between IdrA winning game after game and say MKP winning game after game. In fact, I´d rather see MKP than IdrA due to the playstyle.
Plus, there will be upsets. The Koreans arn´t that much better that they´ll ¨never be beat¨ as I´m positive we´ll see in the TSL3.
I understand the promotion of western esports to grow the scene here, I just believe that a few koreans would greatly speed up that proccess.
On March 03 2011 18:04 Looky wrote: hmm i wish this whole thing was simpler. i just think the whole getting in process is sloppy. you got votes, unknown invites, youtube application, and one big tournament to decide 1 person to get in.
im just hoping we get to see quality players in and not just because their popular. I could see this thing become almost as bad as watching code A in the early GSLs if they base it on that.
I think all the people bitching about Koreans etc. etc. will still all tune in to the NASL even if there aren't many top Koreans competing.
In general, The NA SC2 scene seems much more tolerant of lack luster skill in big tournaments as long as games last longer than five minutes and the casting is excellent.
Wow, such short memories. Everyone talking about GOM House etc. has clearly forgotten that at the start of the GSL there was no such thing. It was: "Open to everyone, just get your ass in Korea!" After confirming that the international community really was MAKING AN EFFORT to go there and play (or stay up late and watch, in the viewers case), they got organized and created ways to help foreigners.
Now the NASL is getting organized, there is much to do before they find their comfortable spot and I can understand if getting Koreans here is not on the top of the priority list. Lets see if there is Korean interest and let them MAKE AN EFFORT and show that playing in the NASL is what they really want. I'm sure the organizers would then take steps to making it easier for them to come over.
On March 04 2011 01:35 Momildo wrote: Wow, such short memories. Everyone talking about GOM House etc. has clearly forgotten that at the start of the GSL there was no such thing. It was: "Open to everyone, just get your ass in Korea!" After confirming that the international community really was MAKING AN EFFORT to go there and play (or stay up late and watch, in the viewers case), they got organized and created ways to help foreigners.
Now the NASL is getting organized, there is much to do before they find their comfortable spot and I can understand if getting Koreans here is not on the top of the priority list. Lets see if there is Korean interest and let them MAKE AN EFFORT and show that playing in the NASL is what they really want. I'm sure the organizers would then take steps to making it easier for them to come over.
You're not telling the whole story. Before there was a foreigner house in Korea, GOM TV paid for the room and board of foreigners who flew to Korea to compete in the open qualifiers of GSL Season 1, 2 and 3. GOM made a concerted effort to have foreigners compete when GSL started. Furthermore, John was on Team Liquid helping answer questions for the foreigners, too. People could pm John and he would get you a motel room in Korea paid by GOM TV, while people tried to qualify for the GSL qualifiers.
On March 03 2011 23:26 Naniwa wrote: lol that they need a video to apply
Yeah it's such a bad idea for the production to have a back story and a face to put to a name on the screen. SO TERRIBLE.
/sarcasm
So those who have a spot/have been invited will also make such a video before locking theyre spot?
All players need to submit videos. Those who are not part of the invited teams need to submit it with their application (due March 11). Those on invited teams need to submit their videos by March 13.
Source:
On March 03 2011 07:34 Xeris wrote: Application Deadlines
Team & Player Contracts (direct approach) due: MARCH 10th, 2011 11:59 p.m. PST
Player Applications (public) due: MARCH 11th, 2011 11:59 p.m. PST
Player Videos (direct approach) due: MARCH 13th, 2011 11:59 p.m. PST
Team & Player Contracts (from public application) due: MARCH 16th, 2011 11:59 p.m. PST
Players notified of acceptance/rejection: MARCH 18th, 2011 11:59 p.m. PST
$250 security deposit per player due: MARCH 20th, 2011 11:59 p.m. PST
On March 04 2011 01:35 Momildo wrote: ... I'm sure the organizers would then take steps to making it easier for them to come over.
On March 04 2011 01:43 ptbl wrote: You're not telling the whole story. Before there was a foreigner house in Korea, GOM TV paid for the room and board of foreigners who flew to Korea to compete in the open qualifiers of GSL Season 1, 2 and 3. GOM made a concerted effort to have foreigners compete when GSL started. Furthermore, John was on Team Liquid helping answer questions for the foreigners, too. People could pm John and he would get you a motel room in Korea paid by GOM TV, while people tried to qualify for the GSL qualifiers.
The difference is, NASL is an online tournament. No one has to come over here, except for the offline finals which last for an unspecified amount of time but almost certainly less than a week. For GSL, despite all of the things they did for foreigners, they knew from the start that very few would come to play in their tournament. Sure they help you out... if you are willing to give up your life and move to Korea for a chance to play in their tournament. It was always going to be mostly a Korean tournament, if they really wanted the "best in the world" to play there, they would have had an online tournament and let Europeans and Americans play from their own countries at different times. That's what you're asking NASL to do.
The only way to develop a real progaming scene that isn't just an offshoot of the Korean scene is to have a tournament that gives foreigners a good reason to make progaming houses and dedicate their time to practicing. If you bend yourself over backwards to get Koreans to compete in a tournament, just so that it's more "prestigious," you're ruining the whole point.
IF Koreans had to move to NA to compete in NASL, then the NASL should do everything you're saying to help them out, because that would help esports in the West. They could come over and live in team houses with foreigners and practice with them, like foreigners are doing in Korea. But bending over backwards so Koreans can just phone in from their progaming houses between GSL practice sessions is not going to do anything for professional starcraft in the US and Europe.
On March 04 2011 01:43 ptbl wrote: You're not telling the whole story. Before there was a foreigner house in Korea, GOM TV paid for the room and board of foreigners who flew to Korea to compete in the open qualifiers of GSL Season 1, 2 and 3. GOM made a concerted effort to have foreigners compete when GSL started. Furthermore, John was on Team Liquid helping answer questions for the foreigners, too. People could pm John and he would get you a motel room in Korea paid by GOM TV, while people tried to qualify for the GSL qualifiers.
The difference is, NASL is an online tournament. No one has to come over here, except for the offline finals which last for an unspecified amount of time but almost certainly less than a week. For GSL, despite all of the things they did for foreigners, they knew from the start that very few would come to play in their tournament. Sure they help you out... if you are willing to give up your life and move to Korea for a chance to play in their tournament. It was always going to be mostly a Korean tournament, if they really wanted the "best in the world" to play there, they would have had an online tournament and let Europeans and Americans play from their own countries at different times. That's what you're asking NASL to do.
The only way to develop a real progaming scene that isn't just an offshoot of the Korean scene is to have a tournament that gives foreigners a good reason to make progaming houses and dedicate their time to practicing. If you bend yourself over backwards to get Koreans to compete in a tournament, just so that it's more "prestigious," you're ruining the whole point.
IF Koreans had to move to NA to compete in NASL, then the NASL should do everything you're saying to help them out, because that would help esports in the West. They could come over and live in team houses with foreigners and practice with them, like foreigners are doing in Korea. But bending over backwards so Koreans can just phone in from their progaming houses between GSL practice sessions is not going to do anything for professional starcraft in the US and Europe.
I was responding to a previous poster's point that GSL didn't do anything for foreigners before the foreigner house.
I would assume that wanting to become an elite player on the level of Koreans will be incentive enough for NA/EU to live in team houses. IEM showed us that team houses are the way to go if you want to be a top notched SC2 player.
I just assumed they would have to move over due to time and lag issues. And as I said, if there is enough interest over there I'm sure the NASL will look into it further.
My only problem with them not reaching out to the koreans at all is the fact that they are hyping this tournament as including "the best players the world has ever seen". I mean, if it's the NASL and you want the focus to be on NA and maybe some EU, that's fine. But you also have to change the line to "the best players the western world has ever seen" if you want to be telling the truth. It'd be like hyping MLS as being made up of the best players in soccer history otherwise.
All that said, I'm looking forward to seeing the results of the invites, and the application videos.
So a lot of people on this thread want there to be as many Korean invites as possible. This makes sense because as we have seen in the GSL and in the events where foreigners and Koreans have mixed the Koreans have been highly skilled.
One thing people aren't considering is do the Koreans want to participate in the NASL? Would you want to dedicate a lot of your time to a tournament that is at least partially dependent on online matches? Playing from Korea to NA and vice versa has crazy latency that makes playing the game incredibly difficult for the players and therefore leads to a poor spectator experience.
Also i'm sure that at some games will conflict with the GSL and would you really want to have players making the choice between one league or the other? That will lead to numerous byes and no one likes to see that.
On March 03 2011 22:06 strongandbig wrote: I for one would be unhappy to see more Koreans in this tournament than there are foreigners in the GSL. This league should be used to build up the starcraft / ESPORTS infrastructure in the West. I don't give a shit if the "best players" are not there. The only reason they are "better" is because they have team houses and an economic model that lets them do nothing but practice. There are huge barriers to entry for foreigners in gsl, namely moving to Korea and Code A. If we want any chance in the long run to develop a real pro scene in the west, we need events with comparable barriers to Koreans, or else eventually every pro event will turn into a showcase of the Korean team model.
I think the conplainers in this thread don't understand what's meant by "ESPORTS in the west.". It's not just "having tournaments in the west which are otherwise indistinguishable from gsl.". It means "having a pro scene in the west that can develop teams and players so that korea is no longer the only place where you can really be a professional starcraft player.".
I really hope NASL sticks to their guns on this and doesn't give in to pressure from the elitists on TL who don't want to watch anyone but Koreans play.
I've said things similar in the past, but don't think I have in this thread. Everybody should read that post twice in hopes that it will sink in.
As to others saying they should do more in reaching out to Korea... I kinda' doubt it will be a huge problem. While the Korean scene might be a lot more detached from us than we are of them, I'm preeeetty sure they'd try to get the information on the new $100,000 tournament and how to enter themselves or their players into the system. I remember with the NASL there was a thread somewhere where various netizens were commenting on it, so it's not like it was 100% unnoticed or something.
That being said, it would also be unlikely (note, I'm about to 100% speculate since it's not like I have dates for events sitting in front of me) that many of the top koreans even can participate. I would find it unlikely that any of the players would drop out of the GSL to play in the NASL, and if they have conflicting schedules I'm sure they'd stick with the GSL. Like I said, I'm speculating so perhaps there is no conflicting times, but that would be pretty hard to believe.
On March 04 2011 03:32 Antoine wrote: My only problem with them not reaching out to the koreans at all is the fact that they are hyping this tournament as including "the best players the world has ever seen". I mean, if it's the NASL and you want the focus to be on NA and maybe some EU, that's fine. But you also have to change the line to "the best players the western world has ever seen" if you want to be telling the truth. It'd be like hyping MLS as being made up of the best players in soccer history otherwise.
All that said, I'm looking forward to seeing the results of the invites, and the application videos.
Yeah, I think in the announcement video, it had the exact phrase of "the best players the world has ever seen." Seems like false advertising at best and disingenuous at worst.
Though, NASL has been very receptive to listening to the community's suggestions. i.e. they changed the 5 player team limit rule. Perhaps, they will also invite the Koreans, too. Anyway, I'm looking forward to the tournament.
Hey all! I'd just like to post a quick update and say that we are currently reaching out to some Korean teams & players about participation in the NASL! We appreciate everyone's concern and want to say that we will do what we can to get Koreans in the league and accommodate them as best we can.
Awesome, at first I was hesitant when the announcement was made but every indication so far is that you guys are really interested in making your tournament as good as it can possibly be.
On March 04 2011 04:40 Xeris wrote: Hey all! I'd just like to post a quick update and say that we are currently reaching out to some Korean teams & players about participation in the NASL! We appreciate everyone's concern and want to say that we will do what we can to get Koreans in the league and accommodate them as best we can.
Xeris, you handsome devil, you. You sure do know how to make a person happy . Woot!
On March 04 2011 00:33 TheDougler wrote: I think everyone arguing about Korean versus Foriegner skill should wait for TSL3 so that we can get a really good opinion of it, rather than IEM which was a relatively small sample size. Sure the absolute best arte probably gonna be korean, but right up there are Jinro and IdrA, and personally I don´t see a difference between IdrA winning game after game and say MKP winning game after game. In fact, I´d rather see MKP than IdrA due to the playstyle.
Well, Jinro and IdrA are mainly that good, because they trained in Korea. Weren't they even included in the "korean invites" for that very tournament? ^^
Anyways, I do hope that the NASL will gather the very best of all over the world, like incontrol wished for in one of the first interviews about NASL.
On March 03 2011 09:49 avilo wrote: Any other top player not on a "team" yet here want to form a "2 man team" with me? Otherwise i'm gonna have to submit "team avilo" lmao
Avilo i will sponser you! i will send you a 1 dollar payment. however your team will be known as TIMBA.
On March 04 2011 04:40 Xeris wrote: Hey all! I'd just like to post a quick update and say that we are currently reaching out to some Korean teams & players about participation in the NASL! We appreciate everyone's concern and want to say that we will do what we can to get Koreans in the league and accommodate them as best we can.
If there's only two spots left, cut Nestea and MvP for Shew and avilo. Koreans don't know shit about Pro-Wrestling theatrics.
On March 04 2011 01:58 dkim wrote: with the $250 bucks deposit requirement, I don't think this is accessible to NA residents as gsl was to koreans during pre seasons.
It's not meant to be. The GSL was an open tournament, with open qualifiers for all 64 spots. This is an invitational where anyone (with a means to do so) can apply, but only 50 players will be selected to compete. The open part of this tournament is only for the 1 spot in the 16 man LAN finals.
The point is if the koreans want to play in this league its up to them to contact the nasl guys and not the other way around. Pretty simple isnt it ?. Xeris etc shouldnt be running after the koreans holding their hands for every step.
Atleast GSL puts effort in getting Foreigners to come. They have an entire website fully translated in ENGLISH and has created clear and defined rules to getting into GSL as a foreigner (whether it be participating in the Open Qualifiers earlier, or getting into the Foreigner house). NASL isn't providing any type of translation instructions for Koreans, how are Koreans suppose to know what to do? Is there even a Korean speaking representative on NASL where Korean teams can even contact? It's not going to be Geoff on MSN obviously.
I get your point. However the NASL stated themselves that they are not the GSL. So they run the things their way. If you are a korean team and want to participate its up to you. If you have trouble with english get a translator. The NASL is an E-Sports event aimed at the western audience. Why should they have special treatment for koreans ?.
GOM just aims as their league name states: Global Starcraft II League at a global audience. NASL = North American Star League Do you see the difference.
I think not having some sort of translated webpage for Koreans would be ridiculous. I say "would be" because I think the only reason there isn't one is because this is still early in NASL's creation... there will be a lot of rough edges until things get smoothed out.
I disagree. English is the language of the internet. Like he said, it's an NA tourney, not a Global tourney. Global includes NA, hence GSL's English site. NA does not include Korea, hence no Korean.
And saying "just get one translator for the site" is a bit silly. Why not get one Swahili translator? One Farsi translator? One Swedish translator? One Norwegian? German? French? Italian?
You could say "But Koreans dominate the scene!" But then that is asking for special treatment.
English is the language of the internet, it's generally accepted by everyone outside of China, Korea, and Japan.
Edit: This all just reminds me of a WoW vid made by a french guy, in French, with no English subtitles, and Swedish and German people were saying "why isn't this in English? Everyone accepts that as the language of the internet".
When you want to create a new top tier league, you contact directly the best actors in the world of the domain your are creating a league in and make sure they participate.
I don't give a shit about wether Player X or Y can brag on a video and smacktalk, all I am interested in is seeing the best SC2 players in the world compete against each other. If NASL is just "Top EU/US" player one base all-in and cheese chaining, that is just a shame. Wether you like it or not, EU/US SC2 players are getting raped hard by every mid level Korean, and the recent macro games with SanZenith for example were astonishing and highly spectacular. That's the kind of level I love to watch, amazing micro/macro awareness etc...
haha, i don't know why people wanted to troll the application but i found it quite interesting. LzGamer's app was also quite professional tbh... just not as OP good as idrA.
On March 03 2011 11:51 esaul17 wrote: Have Korean teams been invited? I've seen this question be asked a few times but haven't seen an answer, and it seems very important to know if the top teams in the world have been given equal footing to compete (as some of the past comments made made this league feel like it was rather anti-Korean).
There will be no invitations, see the Q&A
I thought Xeris said there is no cap on the amount of koreans participating in NASL. Why wouldn't he invite them? Incontrol mentioned that NASL wanted the best players to participate in the league, so I bet we'll see players like oGsMC, IMMvp, etc be in the league.
Koreans: We're not GSL. Bringing in all the Koreans will just make this event the GSL. We are focusing on the growth of Western ESPORTS, by providing players and storylines that are more relatable to our audience. That being said there is no CAP on the number of Koreans who are eligible to participate in this tournament.
I mean NASL won't actively bring Koreans in, but they eligible should they apply.
NASL would be shooting themselves in the foot if they don't invite the Koreans. It would directly contradict their mission of bringing the best players in the world to participate in NASL. Even TSL, IEM, Dreamhack invited Koreans to their tournaments. I doubt NASL would risk alienating part of the starcraft community by not having top Korean players participate.
It's the american way... have a bunch of americans compete for ''world titles'' :D.
Wow that interview with shew was really funny. I hope to see a lot more interviews in this style cause imo thats what the korean were always lacking; drama.
On March 03 2011 22:11 Hrrrrm wrote: Level of competition should be at the forefront. If there aren't a couple of Koreans at least representing that area/skill, NASL is right that it won't be the GSL. It'll be considered a B-League ...
... by the oldschool broodwar TL user elite, who likes to see korean faces not showing any emotion at all.
But its totally fine to be considered a B-League by those guys, still the B, C and D leagues already existing out there get some decent viewer numbers.
On March 03 2011 22:11 Hrrrrm wrote: It's the same reason why Arena Football is seen as a joke in the states because everyone knows the tip-top players are in the NFL. You really don't want to be hit with that stigma from the start.
your sports comparison is just dumb, but k kindda understandable regarding the american sports perspective. the soccer leagues here all over europe are extremly popular in their countries and nobody watching the german league every weekend goes to the stadium with a sad face, close to tears, that he has to watch B level soccer, cause the considered best league in the world is in england. you also maybe wont believe that there are people outside of the usa who ENJOY watching ice hockey in their local leagues and still know that the best matches are played in the NHL. and those people are totally aware of that fact and will somewhat follow the NHL aswell, like we all enjoy and follow the GSL even after the NASL will be finally started.
Even in Canada, we love our juniors. American spectator mentality of either be the big leagues or nothing is quite absurd. And NASL isn't groomed to be minors either. IEM is still a single tournament, and why, IdrA was consistently at the top of Korean scene, does his IEM performance discounts his skill by that much?
On March 04 2011 00:33 TheDougler wrote: I think everyone arguing about Korean versus Foriegner skill should wait for TSL3 so that we can get a really good opinion of it, rather than IEM which was a relatively small sample size. Sure the absolute best arte probably gonna be korean, but right up there are Jinro and IdrA, and personally I don´t see a difference between IdrA winning game after game and say MKP winning game after game. In fact, I´d rather see MKP than IdrA due to the playstyle.
Well, Jinro and IdrA are mainly that good, because they trained in Korea. Weren't they even included in the "korean invites" for that very tournament? ^^
Anyways, I do hope that the NASL will gather the very best of all over the world, like incontrol wished for in one of the first interviews about NASL.
He is in "korean invites" due to his inability to qualify online. It is quite clear that people in Korea have terrible connections to both EU and NA servers, barring them from a fair qualification otherwise.
On March 05 2011 00:24 b0oyah wrote: Wow that interview with shew was really funny. I hope to see a lot more interviews in this style cause imo thats what the korean were always lacking; drama.
You must have not been following the GSL. There has been drama between Idra and Clide/Zenio, Jinro and Polt, and in the Code S selection process, etc. And of course there are always the ceremonies like Leenock crushing a coca-cola can after he beat Coca.
I don't understand why Shew and Lzgamer made those videos tbh..I'm sure team LG (lazarus-gaming) was contacted, and obviously team EG must have been contacted... So why did Lz and Shew make those application videos?
On March 05 2011 03:16 stalife wrote: I don't understand why Shew and Lzgamer made those videos tbh..I'm sure team LG (lazarus-gaming) was contacted, and obviously team EG must have been contacted... So why did Lz and Shew make those application videos?
I sure hope everyone's interview isn't like shew's.
this is supposed to a be a professional league playing for 400k in prizes.
If I didn't know what the NASL was and saw shew's interview on youtube I would think it was an 8th grade SC2 lan for pride, of course maybe that is the target audience here, adolescent boys? I don't know
On March 05 2011 03:43 chonkyfire wrote: I sure hope everyone's interview isn't like shew's.
this is supposed to a be a professional league playing for 400k in prizes.
If I didn't know what the NASL was and saw shew's interview on youtube I would think it was an 8th grade SC2 lan for pride, of course maybe that is the target audience here, adolescent boys? I don't know
I hope they are all like Shew's, as people like him are just nameless faces to me otherwise and I will have no interest watching the competition because I know it won't be the tip-top level (GSL > All until proven otherwise) so I need to have some other reason to watch it (excitement,drama, character development). The video was clearly a bit of a parody, and it at least creates a bit of a personality for Shew.
On March 05 2011 03:43 chonkyfire wrote: I sure hope everyone's interview isn't like shew's.
this is supposed to a be a professional league playing for 400k in prizes.
If I didn't know what the NASL was and saw shew's interview on youtube I would think it was an 8th grade SC2 lan for pride, of course maybe that is the target audience here, adolescent boys? I don't know
I hope they are all like Shew's, as people like him are just nameless faces to me otherwise and I will have no interest watching the competition because I know it won't be the tip-top level (GSL > All until proven otherwise) so I need to have some other reason to watch it (excitement,drama, character development). The video was clearly a bit of a parody, and it at least creates a bit of a personality for Shew.
Each to their own opinion I guess.
Nameless faces and players who aren't close to GSL level won't be participating in this for the most part. You are underestimating the top foreign players, this won't be some shitty league thats for sure.
On another note, i don't know if i like the idea of involving the top korean players/teams. This is a chance to have our own scene, but i guess integration couldn't hurt that much. It just gives us another platform to prove ourselves to them :D
I hope they are all like Shew's, as people like him are just nameless faces to me otherwise and I will have no interest watching the competition because I know it won't be the tip-top level (GSL > All until proven otherwise) so I need to have some other reason to watch it (excitement,drama, character development). The video was clearly a bit of a parody, and it at least creates a bit of a personality for Shew.
Each to their own opinion I guess.
so you're crossing your fingers for * a nameless player to get into the NASL over 50 deserving players because he made a .... " funny " video?
How about gaining personality from actual interviews because you win tournaments?
There will be parody and rivalries eventually. It's not going to happen in the first season necessarily - it just takes time.
I'm really just hoping the focus is getting the 50 most deserving players in the tournament.
On March 05 2011 03:43 chonkyfire wrote: I sure hope everyone's interview isn't like shew's.
this is supposed to a be a professional league playing for 400k in prizes.
If I didn't know what the NASL was and saw shew's interview on youtube I would think it was an 8th grade SC2 lan for pride, of course maybe that is the target audience here, adolescent boys? I don't know
I hope they are all like Shew's, as people like him are just nameless faces to me otherwise and I will have no interest watching the competition because I know it won't be the tip-top level (GSL > All until proven otherwise) so I need to have some other reason to watch it (excitement,drama, character development). The video was clearly a bit of a parody, and it at least creates a bit of a personality for Shew.
Each to their own opinion I guess.
Nameless faces and players who aren't close to GSL level won't be participating in this for the most part. You are underestimating the top foreign players, this won't be some shitty league thats for sure.
On another note, i don't know if i like the idea of involving the top korean players/teams. This is a chance to have our own scene, but i guess integration couldn't hurt that much. It just gives us another platform to prove ourselves to them :D
They need 50 players. You'd have to be a really strange individual to be able to name 25 top foreign players, let alone 50. For the vast majority of viewers, even those that follow tournaments regularly, a large chunk of the players will be unknown. Not that it makes it a bad tournament, it's just reality. The vids will be cool for that.
I hope they are all like Shew's, as people like him are just nameless faces to me otherwise and I will have no interest watching the competition because I know it won't be the tip-top level (GSL > All until proven otherwise) so I need to have some other reason to watch it (excitement,drama, character development). The video was clearly a bit of a parody, and it at least creates a bit of a personality for Shew.
Each to their own opinion I guess.
so you're crossing your fingers for * a nameless player to get into the NASL over 50 deserving players because he made a .... " funny " video?
How about gaining personality from actual interviews because you win tournaments?
There will be parody and rivalries eventually. It's not going to happen in the first season necessarily - it just takes time.
I'm really just hoping the focus is getting the 50 most deserving players in the tournament.
This is correct, this is why our first criteria is results when we are going to select the players for the league.
On March 05 2011 03:43 chonkyfire wrote: I sure hope everyone's interview isn't like shew's.
this is supposed to a be a professional league playing for 400k in prizes.
If I didn't know what the NASL was and saw shew's interview on youtube I would think it was an 8th grade SC2 lan for pride, of course maybe that is the target audience here, adolescent boys? I don't know
I hope they are all like Shew's, as people like him are just nameless faces to me otherwise and I will have no interest watching the competition because I know it won't be the tip-top level (GSL > All until proven otherwise) so I need to have some other reason to watch it (excitement,drama, character development). The video was clearly a bit of a parody, and it at least creates a bit of a personality for Shew.
Each to their own opinion I guess.
Nameless faces and players who aren't close to GSL level won't be participating in this for the most part. You are underestimating the top foreign players, this won't be some shitty league thats for sure.
On another note, i don't know if i like the idea of involving the top korean players/teams. This is a chance to have our own scene, but i guess integration couldn't hurt that much. It just gives us another platform to prove ourselves to them :D
They need 50 players. You'd have to be a really strange individual to be able to name 25 top foreign players, let alone 50. For the vast majority of viewers, even those that follow tournaments regularly, a large chunk of the players will be unknown. Not that it makes it a bad tournament, it's just reality. The vids will be cool for that.
Exactly, name 50 players that you actually 'know'. I mean the famous ones are obvious, but beyond the top 20-25, they really do become harder to name, and I am the kind of guy who is on TL every day watching streams. Never heard of Shew before this video, yet he is on LG which is a decent US team. The videos will help to create some interest for those players at the least, and there is no guarantee that every top foreigner + koreans will be filling out this tournament.
The videos will help to create some interest for those players at the least, and there is no guarantee that every top foreigner + koreans will be filling out this tournament.
???
what does every foreign progamer want to do instead? Watch people who aren't as good as them compete for 100k?
The videos will help to create some interest for those players at the least, and there is no guarantee that every top foreigner + koreans will be filling out this tournament.
???
what does every foreign progamer want to do instead? Watch people who aren't as good as them compete for 100k?
To get in the running for that (100k total prize pool) don't you have to make top 16 or something, and at that point be willing to travel to California (actually harder to get to than Korea from most parts of Europe in terms of time spent travelling).
On March 05 2011 03:43 chonkyfire wrote: I sure hope everyone's interview isn't like shew's.
this is supposed to a be a professional league playing for 400k in prizes.
If I didn't know what the NASL was and saw shew's interview on youtube I would think it was an 8th grade SC2 lan for pride, of course maybe that is the target audience here, adolescent boys? I don't know
I hope they are all like Shew's, as people like him are just nameless faces to me otherwise and I will have no interest watching the competition because I know it won't be the tip-top level (GSL > All until proven otherwise) so I need to have some other reason to watch it (excitement,drama, character development). The video was clearly a bit of a parody, and it at least creates a bit of a personality for Shew.
Each to their own opinion I guess.
Nameless faces and players who aren't close to GSL level won't be participating in this for the most part. You are underestimating the top foreign players, this won't be some shitty league thats for sure.
On another note, i don't know if i like the idea of involving the top korean players/teams. This is a chance to have our own scene, but i guess integration couldn't hurt that much. It just gives us another platform to prove ourselves to them :D
They need 50 players. You'd have to be a really strange individual to be able to name 25 top foreign players, let alone 50. For the vast majority of viewers, even those that follow tournaments regularly, a large chunk of the players will be unknown. Not that it makes it a bad tournament, it's just reality. The vids will be cool for that.
Exactly, name 50 players that you actually 'know'. I mean the famous ones are obvious, but beyond the top 20-25, they really do become harder to name, and I am the kind of guy who is on TL every day watching streams. Never heard of Shew before this video, yet he is on LG which is a decent US team. The videos will help to create some interest for those players at the least, and there is no guarantee that every top foreigner + koreans will be filling out this tournament.
Take a look at the TLPD. There are far more than 50 well-known names, not to mention Korean players.
To get in the running for that (100k total prize pool) don't you have to make top 16 or something, and at that point be willing to travel to California (actually harder to get to than Korea from most parts of Europe in terms of time spent travelling).
On March 05 2011 03:43 chonkyfire wrote: I sure hope everyone's interview isn't like shew's.
this is supposed to a be a professional league playing for 400k in prizes.
If I didn't know what the NASL was and saw shew's interview on youtube I would think it was an 8th grade SC2 lan for pride, of course maybe that is the target audience here, adolescent boys? I don't know
I hope they are all like Shew's, as people like him are just nameless faces to me otherwise and I will have no interest watching the competition because I know it won't be the tip-top level (GSL > All until proven otherwise) so I need to have some other reason to watch it (excitement,drama, character development). The video was clearly a bit of a parody, and it at least creates a bit of a personality for Shew.
Each to their own opinion I guess.
Nameless faces and players who aren't close to GSL level won't be participating in this for the most part. You are underestimating the top foreign players, this won't be some shitty league thats for sure.
On another note, i don't know if i like the idea of involving the top korean players/teams. This is a chance to have our own scene, but i guess integration couldn't hurt that much. It just gives us another platform to prove ourselves to them :D
They need 50 players. You'd have to be a really strange individual to be able to name 25 top foreign players, let alone 50. For the vast majority of viewers, even those that follow tournaments regularly, a large chunk of the players will be unknown. Not that it makes it a bad tournament, it's just reality. The vids will be cool for that.
Exactly, name 50 players that you actually 'know'. I mean the famous ones are obvious, but beyond the top 20-25, they really do become harder to name, and I am the kind of guy who is on TL every day watching streams. Never heard of Shew before this video, yet he is on LG which is a decent US team. The videos will help to create some interest for those players at the least, and there is no guarantee that every top foreigner + koreans will be filling out this tournament.
Take a look at the TLPD. There are far more than 50 well-known names, not to mention Korean players.
Well the only reason I'm talking here is because I liked the video, so I'll refer to that with what I'm going to say.
The average person who watches this tournament will not know half of the names on the list besides "hey I saw that name in a list on in a clan war", and a colourful video would surely go a long way to making you an interesting player to follow as opposed to just another guy. Not everybody is as outspoken as Incontrol and having a colourful video to create a personality for them is surely not a bad thing and not going against the professional nature of the league.
On March 05 2011 03:43 chonkyfire wrote: I sure hope everyone's interview isn't like shew's.
this is supposed to a be a professional league playing for 400k in prizes.
If I didn't know what the NASL was and saw shew's interview on youtube I would think it was an 8th grade SC2 lan for pride, of course maybe that is the target audience here, adolescent boys? I don't know
I hope they are all like Shew's, as people like him are just nameless faces to me otherwise and I will have no interest watching the competition because I know it won't be the tip-top level (GSL > All until proven otherwise) so I need to have some other reason to watch it (excitement,drama, character development). The video was clearly a bit of a parody, and it at least creates a bit of a personality for Shew.
Each to their own opinion I guess.
Nameless faces and players who aren't close to GSL level won't be participating in this for the most part. You are underestimating the top foreign players, this won't be some shitty league thats for sure.
On another note, i don't know if i like the idea of involving the top korean players/teams. This is a chance to have our own scene, but i guess integration couldn't hurt that much. It just gives us another platform to prove ourselves to them :D
They need 50 players. You'd have to be a really strange individual to be able to name 25 top foreign players, let alone 50. For the vast majority of viewers, even those that follow tournaments regularly, a large chunk of the players will be unknown. Not that it makes it a bad tournament, it's just reality. The vids will be cool for that.
MVP Nestea MarineKing MC Jinro Tester Fruitdealer TOP Genius Nada Boxer July Clide theSTC Zenio Idra Huk Ret Haypro TLO Tyler Sjow Select Naniwa Sen KawaiiRice Fenix TT1 KiwiKaki Catz QXC Drewbie Incontrol Lzgamer Machine Inka Axslav Strifecro Moonglade Sheth allboutyou Morrow Naama Mana Strelok Whitera Socke Ace Lyn Goody Demuslim HasuObs Check Hongun
On March 05 2011 03:43 chonkyfire wrote: I sure hope everyone's interview isn't like shew's.
this is supposed to a be a professional league playing for 400k in prizes.
If I didn't know what the NASL was and saw shew's interview on youtube I would think it was an 8th grade SC2 lan for pride, of course maybe that is the target audience here, adolescent boys? I don't know
I hope they are all like Shew's, as people like him are just nameless faces to me otherwise and I will have no interest watching the competition because I know it won't be the tip-top level (GSL > All until proven otherwise) so I need to have some other reason to watch it (excitement,drama, character development). The video was clearly a bit of a parody, and it at least creates a bit of a personality for Shew.
Each to their own opinion I guess.
Nameless faces and players who aren't close to GSL level won't be participating in this for the most part. You are underestimating the top foreign players, this won't be some shitty league thats for sure.
On another note, i don't know if i like the idea of involving the top korean players/teams. This is a chance to have our own scene, but i guess integration couldn't hurt that much. It just gives us another platform to prove ourselves to them :D
They need 50 players. You'd have to be a really strange individual to be able to name 25 top foreign players, let alone 50. For the vast majority of viewers, even those that follow tournaments regularly, a large chunk of the players will be unknown. Not that it makes it a bad tournament, it's just reality. The vids will be cool for that.
Exactly, name 50 players that you actually 'know'. I mean the famous ones are obvious, but beyond the top 20-25, they really do become harder to name, and I am the kind of guy who is on TL every day watching streams. Never heard of Shew before this video, yet he is on LG which is a decent US team. The videos will help to create some interest for those players at the least, and there is no guarantee that every top foreigner + koreans will be filling out this tournament.
Take a look at the TLPD. There are far more than 50 well-known names, not to mention Korean players.
Well the only reason I'm talking here is because I liked the video, so I'll refer to that with what I'm going to say.
The average person who watches this tournament will not know half of the names on the list besides "hey I saw that name in a list on in a clan war", and a colourful video would surely go a long way to making you an interesting player to follow as opposed to just another guy. Not everybody is as outspoken as Incontrol and having a colourful video to create a personality for them is surely not a bad thing and not going against the professional nature of the league.
^ The average person being those who only follow GSL right?
On March 05 2011 03:43 chonkyfire wrote: I sure hope everyone's interview isn't like shew's.
this is supposed to a be a professional league playing for 400k in prizes.
If I didn't know what the NASL was and saw shew's interview on youtube I would think it was an 8th grade SC2 lan for pride, of course maybe that is the target audience here, adolescent boys? I don't know
I hope they are all like Shew's, as people like him are just nameless faces to me otherwise and I will have no interest watching the competition because I know it won't be the tip-top level (GSL > All until proven otherwise) so I need to have some other reason to watch it (excitement,drama, character development). The video was clearly a bit of a parody, and it at least creates a bit of a personality for Shew.
Each to their own opinion I guess.
Nameless faces and players who aren't close to GSL level won't be participating in this for the most part. You are underestimating the top foreign players, this won't be some shitty league thats for sure.
On another note, i don't know if i like the idea of involving the top korean players/teams. This is a chance to have our own scene, but i guess integration couldn't hurt that much. It just gives us another platform to prove ourselves to them :D
They need 50 players. You'd have to be a really strange individual to be able to name 25 top foreign players, let alone 50. For the vast majority of viewers, even those that follow tournaments regularly, a large chunk of the players will be unknown. Not that it makes it a bad tournament, it's just reality. The vids will be cool for that.
Exactly, name 50 players that you actually 'know'. I mean the famous ones are obvious, but beyond the top 20-25, they really do become harder to name, and I am the kind of guy who is on TL every day watching streams. Never heard of Shew before this video, yet he is on LG which is a decent US team. The videos will help to create some interest for those players at the least, and there is no guarantee that every top foreigner + koreans will be filling out this tournament.
Take a look at the TLPD. There are far more than 50 well-known names, not to mention Korean players.
Well the only reason I'm talking here is because I liked the video, so I'll refer to that with what I'm going to say.
The average person who watches this tournament will not know half of the names on the list besides "hey I saw that name in a list on in a clan war", and a colourful video would surely go a long way to making you an interesting player to follow as opposed to just another guy. Not everybody is as outspoken as Incontrol and having a colourful video to create a personality for them is surely not a bad thing and not going against the professional nature of the league.
^ The average person being those who only follow GSL right?
On March 05 2011 03:43 chonkyfire wrote: I sure hope everyone's interview isn't like shew's.
this is supposed to a be a professional league playing for 400k in prizes.
If I didn't know what the NASL was and saw shew's interview on youtube I would think it was an 8th grade SC2 lan for pride, of course maybe that is the target audience here, adolescent boys? I don't know
I hope they are all like Shew's, as people like him are just nameless faces to me otherwise and I will have no interest watching the competition because I know it won't be the tip-top level (GSL > All until proven otherwise) so I need to have some other reason to watch it (excitement,drama, character development). The video was clearly a bit of a parody, and it at least creates a bit of a personality for Shew.
Each to their own opinion I guess.
Nameless faces and players who aren't close to GSL level won't be participating in this for the most part. You are underestimating the top foreign players, this won't be some shitty league thats for sure.
On another note, i don't know if i like the idea of involving the top korean players/teams. This is a chance to have our own scene, but i guess integration couldn't hurt that much. It just gives us another platform to prove ourselves to them :D
They need 50 players. You'd have to be a really strange individual to be able to name 25 top foreign players, let alone 50. For the vast majority of viewers, even those that follow tournaments regularly, a large chunk of the players will be unknown. Not that it makes it a bad tournament, it's just reality. The vids will be cool for that.
Exactly, name 50 players that you actually 'know'. I mean the famous ones are obvious, but beyond the top 20-25, they really do become harder to name, and I am the kind of guy who is on TL every day watching streams. Never heard of Shew before this video, yet he is on LG which is a decent US team. The videos will help to create some interest for those players at the least, and there is no guarantee that every top foreigner + koreans will be filling out this tournament.
On March 05 2011 03:43 chonkyfire wrote: I sure hope everyone's interview isn't like shew's.
this is supposed to a be a professional league playing for 400k in prizes.
If I didn't know what the NASL was and saw shew's interview on youtube I would think it was an 8th grade SC2 lan for pride, of course maybe that is the target audience here, adolescent boys? I don't know
Nothing wrong with people having personality. If you knew nothing about the NFL and only saw Terrel Owens eating the fan's popcorn or pretending to play golf with the football, you would think its unprofessional as well.
The point is, there's personalities everywhere, and thats ok it makes it exciting for people. I would rather not see league full of stone faced boring people.
shaunnn He will probably pick some players in your list and come up with an excuse that some are not good. That's a good list of top non-Korean players that will make this a very interesting league, although my list a few different players than yours
On March 05 2011 03:43 chonkyfire wrote: I sure hope everyone's interview isn't like shew's.
this is supposed to a be a professional league playing for 400k in prizes.
If I didn't know what the NASL was and saw shew's interview on youtube I would think it was an 8th grade SC2 lan for pride, of course maybe that is the target audience here, adolescent boys? I don't know
Nothing wrong with people having personality. If you knew nothing about the NFL and only saw Terrel Owens eating the fan's popcorn or pretending to play golf with the football, you would think its unprofessional as well.
The point is, there's personalities everywhere, and thats ok it makes it exciting for people. I would rather not see league full of stone faced boring people.
Anyway, I think we're all missing the point. Xeris said that the main criteria for choosing a player is based upon his accomplishments and not the "funny" videos. The videos are purely for entertainment and the main criteria when it comes to picking players.
Congrats, you can all name 50 players and skillfully avoid what I am talking about.
The league will be interesting no doubt. All I said in my initial post was that LGShew's video is good for the league, and tried to explain why but I seemed to be lacking in good argument... I was never trying to bring down the league. Actually, instead of trying to argue, if you read my post you will see that I was standing up to a guy who said these interesting videos were unprofessional. :D
I think it would be cool for 1 or 2 unheard of guys (albeit with some backing of results in smaller tourneys and whatnot), to get in to formulate the underdog role. Most people here can name 50 people offhand that are all top-tier players deserving of being in the NASL, it would be interesting to bring a nobody and hope he goes the Cinderella route..
On March 05 2011 04:39 bennyaus wrote: Congrats, you can all name 50 players and skillfully avoid what I am talking about.
The league will be interesting no doubt. All I said in my initial post was that LGShew's video is good for the league, and tried to explain why but I seemed to be lacking in good argument...
I understand where you're coming from. But I think you're focusing too much on the video. Let's say moonglade submits a video and it's really dull and boring. Would you honestly choose LGShew over moonglade because Shew made a funnier and entertaining video? No, you would go with the more talented and accomplished player in moonglade.
Also, it's interesting to see the lack of notice vVv is getting in all these lists..they've got some pretty legit guys on their team, and have won their share of clan wars..(no I'm not affiliated with them)
On March 05 2011 04:41 AimForTheBushes wrote: I think it would be cool for 1 or 2 unheard of guys (albeit with some backing of results in smaller tourneys and whatnot), to get in to formulate the underdog role. Most people here can name 50 people offhand that are all top-tier players deserving of being in the NASL, it would be interesting to bring a nobody and hope he goes the Cinderella route..
The no name can go through the qualifier for the final spot. I don't think the person should take a spot away from a deserving player.
On March 05 2011 04:39 bennyaus wrote: Congrats, you can all name 50 players and skillfully avoid what I am talking about.
The league will be interesting no doubt. All I said in my initial post was that LGShew's video is good for the league, and tried to explain why but I seemed to be lacking in good argument...
I understand where you're coming from. But I think you're focusing too much on the video. Let's say moonglade submits a video and it's really dull and boring. Would you honestly choose LGShew over moonglade because Shew made a funnier and entertaining video? No, you would go with the more talented and accomplished player in moonglade.
Of course not! The point I am making is that people who oppose the video 'cause it is unprofessional are fools, they are the kind of thing (although not at the expense of quality) that will make the scene more fun and interesting... especially to the gateway e-sport nerds like my housemates who I have been trying to get into SC2. We all want the most skilled players to make it in, but I'll be damned if they all make boring poker face videos that are shown as our pre-game 'hype'. The pre-game Korean interviews before GSL where they basically shit-talk there opponents (like where Polt said Jinro's wins were all based on luck and he deserves Code S more than him) were some of the best things to watch.
On March 05 2011 05:15 Chill wrote: So then the video is just a formality?
Im guessing they will use the videos to build up storylines to the players who actually get called in. They can play them to hype up rivalries before matches and such.
This might offend some people, but I really hope the NASL to figures out a way to get a lot more Koreans playing. No offense to anyone, but I just feel like the average skill level from 45 players outside of Korea will sort of be underwhelming (not sure about paying $25 for the vods for that).
On March 05 2011 05:23 CoR wrote: question team needs at least 2 players ??
so white-ra is unable to take part because he is the one man show in duckload ?
Duckload counts. Answered in the OP:
A note on teams: A team is defined by us as two (2) or more players submitting a team application and providing a collective deposit, or as an entity that supports any number of players via sponsorships.
Not to derail, but is it just me or is team vVv not even mentioned anywhere by anyone? and they've got some players that are much better than some of the other ones I've seen people mention :D Really hope at least a few of them get in.
I've said like 10 times that White-Ra can play... A note on teams: A team is defined by us as two (2) or more players submitting a team application and providing a collective deposit, or as an entity that supports any number of players via sponsorships.
On March 05 2011 05:10 Xeris wrote: Guys, nobody is being chosen based on their video... ~_~!
We're choosing based on: 1) Results 2) Results 3) Results 4) Popularity
There ya go!
The purpose of the video is to generate content and just be something thats interesting for people to see.
OMG, it's so unfair that you consider results and popularity! Your selection format is terrible and you should PM me for a list of things that need to happen for it to be perfect.
/troll
The videos will be awesome and I like that you guys are trying to show "the whole player", let the haters hate.
Wow these videos are such a great idea. Lzgamer hasn't been much more than another good EG player to me, but these videos really help you get to know the players. I will have to check out his stream as his vid was awesome and made me an instant fan! (same goes for Shew's video as well)
I love that popularity has a factor as well, would love to see some of the streamers playing like Destiny (now on root so I guess he can apply that way) Trump, Slayers_Cella, etc....
On March 05 2011 05:10 Xeris wrote: Guys, nobody is being chosen based on their video... ~_~!
We're choosing based on: 1) Results 2) Results 3) Results 4) Popularity
There ya go!
The purpose of the video is to generate content and just be something thats interesting for people to see.
Then the videos aren't interesting. Formalities are boring. This only results in fuel for people wanting qualifiers or mlg style. I can't believe western E-sports is starting this way. + Show Spoiler +
On March 05 2011 05:32 hunts wrote: Not to derail, but is it just me or is team vVv not even mentioned anywhere by anyone? and they've got some players that are much better than some of the other ones I've seen people mention :D Really hope at least a few of them get in.
Same thing I was saying about 10 posts ago.. XD
Just a bit off-topic maybe, but both vVv and VT (Spades *in korea still?* and Pokebunny) have worthy candidates. I'm sure both of those teams have either been contacted or have made plans for it, but guess it's not surprising to be unknown or overlooked unless you're a major EU clan like mouz or Liquid/EG/Root here in the US..
On March 05 2011 05:32 hunts wrote: Not to derail, but is it just me or is team vVv not even mentioned anywhere by anyone? and they've got some players that are much better than some of the other ones I've seen people mention :D Really hope at least a few of them get in.
Same thing I was saying about 10 posts ago.. XD
Just a bit off-topic maybe, but both vVv and VT (Spades *in korea still?* and Pokebunny) have worthy candidates. I'm sure both of those teams have either been contacted or have made plans for it, but guess it's not surprising to be unknown or overlooked unless you're a major EU clan like mouz or Liquid/EG/Root here in the US..
Well if they weren't contacted they can apply so I don't think it is an issue. If a team didn't even apply then you can't fault NASL. That said we don't know what teams were contacted so no need to start rumors.
On March 05 2011 05:32 hunts wrote: Not to derail, but is it just me or is team vVv not even mentioned anywhere by anyone? and they've got some players that are much better than some of the other ones I've seen people mention :D Really hope at least a few of them get in.
Same thing I was saying about 10 posts ago.. XD
Just a bit off-topic maybe, but both vVv and VT (Spades *in korea still?* and Pokebunny) have worthy candidates. I'm sure both of those teams have either been contacted or have made plans for it, but guess it's not surprising to be unknown or overlooked unless you're a major EU clan like mouz or Liquid/EG/Root here in the US..
VT has been contacted; spades is coming home from korea in a week or so I think.
On March 05 2011 05:10 Xeris wrote: Guys, nobody is being chosen based on their video... ~_~!
We're choosing based on: 1) Results 2) Results 3) Results 4) Popularity
There ya go!
The purpose of the video is to generate content and just be something thats interesting for people to see.
Then the videos aren't interesting. Formalities are boring. This only results in fuel for people wanting qualifiers or mlg style. I can't believe western E-sports is starting this way. + Show Spoiler +
All I see is a giant sham
Are you kidding me? The videos are awesome, it brings familiarity, emotions and personality. EVERY sport needs that. Unless it's your countryman or something how can you can connect and root for someone who in your world is nothing but a few letters on a screen? If you have no care or familiarity with players and you don't care who wins or loses how is it fun?
I liked LZ's interview. He had some fun with it, but he also gave a decent amount of information and back story. I hope to see more like that. I wasn't a fan of shew's interview... I'll leave it at that.
Nothing wrong with people having personality. If you knew nothing about the NFL and only saw Terrel Owens eating the fan's popcorn or pretending to play golf with the football, you would think its unprofessional as well.
The point is, there's personalities everywhere, and thats ok it makes it exciting for people. I would rather not see league full of stone faced boring people.
a 50 second youtube video tells you nothing of a persons personality
maybe if you sat in a vent server and shot the shit with them for an hour sure
I watch football because I love the game. I watch starcraft, because I love the game. They entertain me.
I respect players because of their play, when I see something that I cannot physically do myself
a 50 second youtube video tells you nothing of a persons personality
maybe if you sat in a vent server and shot the shit with them for an hour sure
Get over yourself. There is an amazing thing going on right now and all people like yourself can do is find reasons to complain. It's just pathetic. I would love to see someone like you have an actual conversation with the large amount of people responsible for bringing all of this to us without making yourself look like an absolute fool.
Utter lack of respect for people that work hard. Doing something great for this scene that YOU could never dream of accomplishing. Now crawl back in your hole.
Love the video idea, even though some might consider it abit bulky... Thing is it isn't bulky but in the timeframe that has been given it is abit preasuring when added to the 250$ I guess but I wouldn't know not being a manager.
I hope this works out and I have faith in the leauge, just please don't get in over your heads and just make sure the first one goes off somewhat without difficult and then you can polish it after it's been established.
Right now there's tons of doupters and haters because everybody loves being on that bandwagon, if you just put this shit out and do it already it'll shut them up so we can endulge ourselves more in all the video/team/story/etc frenzy.
a 50 second youtube video tells you nothing of a persons personality
maybe if you sat in a vent server and shot the shit with them for an hour sure
Get over yourself. There is an amazing thing going on right now and all people like yourself can do is find reasons to complain. It's just pathetic. I would love to see someone like you have an actual conversation with the large amount of people responsible for bringing all of this to us without making yourself look like an absolute fool.
Utter lack of respect for people that work hard. Doing something great for this scene that YOU could never dream of accomplishing. Now crawl back in your hole.
I couldn't agree more. There is a difference between people criticizing this league in attempts to make it better and people who are just bitching to bitch. Its sad thats happening even. This is a huge opportunity for western e-sports. A lot of the complaints aren't even legit. People are still complaining about no Koreans being invited even when Xeris has said he has contacted Korean teams.
A 50 second video provides entertainment. There is no doubt that Shew's video is hilarious and would be great on a player page. How dare a player make a joke. I assume people who dislike his video enjoy the No Fun League's penalizing nearly every endzone celebration too. Just because it's a professional league doesn't mean players can't have fun
And I think a lot of people saying they won't watch or follow the NASL are just full of shit. They will be back when the games start. They might not buy premium tickets, but they will be following it.
I agree with my two norwegian fellas on page 14. I think the videos are a nice touch. Get to know the players a little bit, and if you're lucky, someone will strike up a rivalry !
Get over yourself. There is an amazing thing going on right now and all people like yourself can do is find reasons to complain. It's just pathetic. I would love to see someone like you have an actual conversation with the large amount of people responsible for bringing all of this to us without making yourself look like an absolute fool.
I'm not complaining. I'm simply stating you don't know someone's personality after a 50 second youtube video. What makes you think otherwise?
This is a professional league and the interview video is some kid saying he likes motherships and screaming. Do you go into a job interview screaming like an 8th grader? The good news is shew doesn't have a shot to get into this tournament, but he got his 50 seconds of fame at least
Utter lack of respect for people that work hard. Doing something great for this scene that YOU could never dream of accomplishing. Now crawl back in your hole.
I watch just as much, if not more starcraft than you do, without viewers this scene doesn't exist. I've seen damn near every sc2 VOD since the beta, so honestly I can say whatever I want.
you're right something great could happen, and i'm hoping they do it right.
Get over yourself. There is an amazing thing going on right now and all people like yourself can do is find reasons to complain. It's just pathetic. I would love to see someone like you have an actual conversation with the large amount of people responsible for bringing all of this to us without making yourself look like an absolute fool.
I'm not complaining. I'm simply stating you don't know someone's personality after a 50 second youtube video. What makes you think otherwise?
First of all, the videos aren't the deciding factor, and are probably more to be used for publicity/editing short interviews into content than deciding who gets in.
EDIT: So first you say you can't tell someone's personality based on 50 seconds, then you insult Shew's character based on his video.
VERY INTERESTING. And no, you do not have the right to say whatever you want just because you watched a bunch of VODs. That only works if your opinions aren't blatantly contradictory, inflamatory, and flat out incorrect.
EDIT: So first you say you can't tell someone's personality based on 50 seconds, then you insult Shew's character based on his video.
VERY INTERESTING. And no, you do not have the right to say whatever you want just because you watched a bunch of VODs. That only works if your opinions aren't blatantly contradictory, inflamatory, and flat out incorrect.
I said his video was fucking stupid and if I saw it and k*new nothing about SC2 I would think this was for an 8th grade LAN. I never said anything about shew - e.g. you can't tell someone's personality from a 50 second video
EDIT: So first you say you can't tell someone's personality based on 50 seconds, then you insult Shew's character based on his video.
VERY INTERESTING. And no, you do not have the right to say whatever you want just because you watched a bunch of VODs. That only works if your opinions aren't blatantly contradictory, inflamatory, and flat out incorrect.
I said his video was fucking stupid and if I saw it and k*new nothing about SC2 I would think this was for an 8th grade LAN. I never said anything about shew - e.g. you can't tell someone's personality from a 50 second video
how are you not making this connection?
You said he was screaming like an 8th grader, then you try to fall back on saying you never commented on his personality? Give me a break. Plus, your summary of what you said isn't accurate at all. I cannot comment on what you meant to say, but your post doesn't say what you claim here.
I think that video interviews are a great idea from a spectator's point of view. I've been watching eSports for a while now and they always seem to get spectators excited in chat, threads, etc. The "just Starcraft" tournaments seem by contrast less engaging. Even the TSL 2 text interviews brought tons of entertainment especially with the smack-talk by IdrA.
That said, I think a lot of players might be reluctant to submit videos of themselves before being selected for the actual tournament. It's a lot of privacy lost, showing your real life persona, and if you're just going to end up looking stupid because you weren't selected, it seems a huge price to pay. To this end, it might be a good idea to limit the video requirement to the selected 50, whose games are going to be actually cast and who therefore should be prepared to step into the spotlight.
I mean, it's just an application process - we're not even sure we'll be seeing these people, so why build up a lot of hype about them via videos only to possibly disappoint them (and us) later by rejecting their applications?
You said he was screaming like an 8th grader, then you try to fall back on saying you never commented on his personality? Give me a break. Plus, your summary of what you said isn't accurate at all. I cannot comment on what you meant to say, but your post doesn't say what you claim here.
he was screaming like an 8th grader, should I have said sophomore would that be better? If I said he was a lying hedonist piece of shit then yes I would agree with you, I commented on his personality.
again, you can't know someone's personality from a 50 second youtube video. Is this a really hard concept for you to grasp or something?
You said he was screaming like an 8th grader, then you try to fall back on saying you never commented on his personality? Give me a break. Plus, your summary of what you said isn't accurate at all. I cannot comment on what you meant to say, but your post doesn't say what you claim here.
he was screaming like an 8th grader, should I have said sophomore would that be better? If I said he was a lying hedonist piece of shit then yes I would agree with you, I commented on his personality.
again, you can't know someone's personality from a 50 second youtube video. Is this a really hard concept for you to grasp or something?
Ya I agree with you. You stated what happened in the video, and it would be very awkward for someone not in the SC2 scene to watch (or for those of us who are into it, and just... ya I'll just stop right there before I get flamed) so it may not be the best example of what someone should see if they just start watching it. I think LZ's interview is a much better example.
I also agree that the interview doesn't show much personality, but nevertheless I think it is still a good decision for them to do it. I still feel it shows a little bit of their personality which is a step in the right direction. Also I just think Shew's video was a bad example because he seemed like he was acting the whole time and he basically just made up a rival on the spot... so maybe that is another reason why you feel the videos aren't very valid. Other auditions/interviews will likely show more as I feel LZ's did.
I think the videos add a whole new level of enjoyment to the NASL I don't know faces of a lot of top gamers and this is an excellent opportunity to know their faces/personalities.
50 second youtube video definitely doesn't tell you a lot, but you can still tell a LOT about the person/personality.
On March 05 2011 05:32 hunts wrote: Not to derail, but is it just me or is team vVv not even mentioned anywhere by anyone? and they've got some players that are much better than some of the other ones I've seen people mention :D Really hope at least a few of them get in.
Same thing I was saying about 10 posts ago.. XD
Just a bit off-topic maybe, but both vVv and VT (Spades *in korea still?* and Pokebunny) have worthy candidates. I'm sure both of those teams have either been contacted or have made plans for it, but guess it's not surprising to be unknown or overlooked unless you're a major EU clan like mouz or Liquid/EG/Root here in the US..
Well if they weren't contacted they can apply so I don't think it is an issue. If a team didn't even apply then you can't fault NASL. That said we don't know what teams were contacted so no need to start rumors.
Next time, be a little more thorough when reading. I never said they were or were not contacted. I mentioned that if they hadn't, I can assume with a fair amount of certainty, that they would apply on their own. There was no mention at all of an omission on Xeris/NASL/anyone involved's part. The observation was that all of the posters here (who were making the huge lists of candidates) were omitting these 2 solid, but slightly lower-profile teams. Thanks.
(Also, props to Xeris for already considering those teams!)
On March 05 2011 05:10 Xeris wrote: Guys, nobody is being chosen based on their video... ~_~!
We're choosing based on: 1) Results 2) Results 3) Results 4) Popularity
There ya go!
The purpose of the video is to generate content and just be something thats interesting for people to see.
Then the videos aren't interesting. Formalities are boring. This only results in fuel for people wanting qualifiers or mlg style. I can't believe western E-sports is starting this way. + Show Spoiler +
All I see is a giant sham
Agreed. Now that the cat is out of the bag, nobody will be putting any effort into the videos. Why would they bother? They may bother, but I think you're short-changing something that could be very very cool.
Why not include 5) "a cool video"? 1, 2, 3, 4 are all pretty arbitrary (just being realistic - impossible to compare tournament results, and hard to gauge popularity accurately), so I don't see it doing any harm to the selection process.
I was skeptical of the video idea at first, but I thought it was a pretty cool idea until I saw this post.
It is a formality because everyone who is in the league is required to make one. Obviously we can't make people be funny / entertaining in their videos... We would love it if every video was funny like Avilo's or Shew's, or incredibly professional like LzGaMeR's though
On March 05 2011 11:55 Xeris wrote: It is a formality because everyone who is in the league is required to make one. Obviously we can't make people be funny / entertaining in their videos... We would love it if every video was funny like Avilo's or Shew's, or incredibly professional like LzGaMeR's though
Yeah, I'm liking these video introductions so far. It really helps to put a face onto some of the less known players that don't make it/get casted in live tournaments. Really funny though how avilo looks and acts quite like how I imagined him from his posts here.
I really hope NASL will make an effort to get specific korean players in the NASL, *cough* nada boxer *cough* It would get more people to buy premium $ $ $ if you have popular players in the NASL, so take those players into consideration Xeris.
On March 05 2011 12:56 doihy wrote: I really hope NASL will make an effort to get specific korean players in the NASL, *cough* nada boxer *cough* It would get more people to buy premium $ $ $ if you have popular players in the NASL, so take those players into consideration Xeris.
Of course I'm not opposed to having Boxer and Nada, but I don't see why they should be considered over MC, MVP, Nestea, Bomber, Tester, etc etc
On March 05 2011 12:56 doihy wrote: I really hope NASL will make an effort to get specific korean players in the NASL, *cough* nada boxer *cough* It would get more people to buy premium $ $ $ if you have popular players in the NASL, so take those players into consideration Xeris.
The most important factor in that is "persuading" any Korean team that a 9 week long NASL is preferable over monthly GSLs. Take into account that this will be their sponsors decision more than the players, and I seriously doubt the viability of having someone like Boxer coming over. Add in that the games are going to be played on the NA server (unless they change things), so anyone playing from Korea is going to be at a serious lag disadvantage. Consider also the lack of any kind of story/rivalry that could possibly exist between players that have most likely never spoken, let alone played vs each other (Korean server vs NA). I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but the sheer logistics of having any, let alone multiple high-profile korean pro gamers in the NASL seems fairly unlikely. I'd like to think that the NASL could thrive with or without the presence of the top Koreans; it doesn't have to be a competition between the two, since the goal is spreading e-sports into the West. All in all, I think it's going to come down to the execution. It reminds me of when the MLS brought Beckham over to play for the LA Galaxy (and yes, I know he was well past his prime, but one might argue the same of boxer and nada). He was a high-profile player (possibly the most famous player short of Pele and Ronaldo), but by no means did it make US soccer noticeably any more popular, because the product (MLS) was still inferior to it's European/African/S.A. (read: non-american) counterparts.
For what it's worth, I'd pay more for a Idra/Huk showdown/grudge match in the NASL than I would any combination of Koreans..
On March 05 2011 05:10 Xeris wrote: Guys, nobody is being chosen based on their video... ~_~!
We're choosing based on: 1) Results 2) Results 3) Results 4) Popularity
There ya go!
The purpose of the video is to generate content and just be something thats interesting for people to see.
Then the videos aren't interesting. Formalities are boring. This only results in fuel for people wanting qualifiers or mlg style. I can't believe western E-sports is starting this way. + Show Spoiler +
All I see is a giant sham
Are you kidding me? The videos are awesome, it brings familiarity, emotions and personality. EVERY sport needs that. Unless it's your countryman or something how can you can connect and root for someone who in your world is nothing but a few letters on a screen? If you have no care or familiarity with players and you don't care who wins or loses how is it fun?
I don't think the videos are bad, its the fact that they don't decide anything that I don't like
On March 05 2011 05:10 Xeris wrote: Guys, nobody is being chosen based on their video... ~_~!
We're choosing based on: 1) Results 2) Results 3) Results 4) Popularity
There ya go!
The purpose of the video is to generate content and just be something thats interesting for people to see.
Then the videos aren't interesting. Formalities are boring. This only results in fuel for people wanting qualifiers or mlg style. I can't believe western E-sports is starting this way. + Show Spoiler +
All I see is a giant sham
Are you kidding me? The videos are awesome, it brings familiarity, emotions and personality. EVERY sport needs that. Unless it's your countryman or something how can you can connect and root for someone who in your world is nothing but a few letters on a screen? If you have no care or familiarity with players and you don't care who wins or loses how is it fun?
I don't think the videos are bad, its the fact that they don't decide anything that I don't like
You really think that the people picked in NASL should be picked from a video? You can't actually be serious... I would rather them base it on Results and then Popularity. The reason being first they are looking for the best players, and second they are looking for popular players so people will tune in to see them. Choosing them based on a video is just silly.
Saying all of that I love the video idea and the fact that everyone has to do it is just a plus.
On March 05 2011 17:27 Sobba wrote: Ah damn. 50 players feels like so few now. There are so many good Sc2 players with personality that falls short of that top 50 in EU/NA.
Fixed :D I want to see good games. Hell I cheer for IdrA after good game but his personality is a disaster. I really would like to see more Korean vs EU/NA Drama just watch at the IEM results. We westerners need more motivation.
On March 05 2011 05:10 Xeris wrote: Guys, nobody is being chosen based on their video... ~_~!
We're choosing based on: 1) Results 2) Results 3) Results 4) Popularity
There ya go!
The purpose of the video is to generate content and just be something thats interesting for people to see.
Then the videos aren't interesting. Formalities are boring. This only results in fuel for people wanting qualifiers or mlg style. I can't believe western E-sports is starting this way. + Show Spoiler +
All I see is a giant sham
Uh, no? I personally really liked LZGamer's video - I haven't paid close attention to him before - sure I've seen him in some tournaments here and there, but I still was very interested in his video. I wasn't a fan of most of the SC and SC2 players that I am now until I saw an interview or something of them and came to know the person behind the game.
The videos are just going to be part of the player bios on the NASL site. They're required, they aren't a major part of criteria in getting into the league (Though they may be a "tiebreaker" if they can't decide who is 'more accomplished' among spots 45-60 and need something to be a deciding factor) . Theres a big fucking difference. Stop throwing retarded flames at this thread, seriously. I'm surprised there aren't oodles of warnings and bans going on here.
This probably has been asked before but, in regards to the videos can it just be an audio with a picture or something like that? I don't have access to a webcam or camera that can shoot a video currently ><
Personally I think its awful, because that means the "show" is getting more important than the sport (eventually after people are getting used to it and players will freak out ever more just to get higher numbers of viewers for higher salaries). Personally I think the best of the best of the best should compete (not like the braindead ones in Men in Black though) instead of the flashy guys in costumes.
On March 05 2011 22:50 Dark.Carnival wrote: This probably has been asked before but, in regards to the videos can it just be an audio with a picture or something like that? I don't have access to a webcam or camera that can shoot a video currently ><
No friends or family with an Iphone? They take pretty good video in controlled lighting conditions if that's your only option. I have a hard time believing in today's day and age not having access to some type of recording device. Especially if you are able to get to a computer. You even live in the US, hell you can walk to an Apple Store and make your video there. There really is no excuse if you want to be part of this.
On March 05 2011 12:56 doihy wrote: I really hope NASL will make an effort to get specific korean players in the NASL, *cough* nada boxer *cough* It would get more people to buy premium $ $ $ if you have popular players in the NASL, so take those players into consideration Xeris.
The most important factor in that is "persuading" any Korean team that a 9 week long NASL is preferable over monthly GSLs. Take into account that this will be their sponsors decision more than the players, and I seriously doubt the viability of having someone like Boxer coming over. Add in that the games are going to be played on the NA server (unless they change things), so anyone playing from Korea is going to be at a serious lag disadvantage. Consider also the lack of any kind of story/rivalry that could possibly exist between players that have most likely never spoken, let alone played vs each other (Korean server vs NA).
Not sure whether I misunderstood anything, but won't a big chunk of the tournament be online, with only a live-finaly to which the players are obliget to come according to contract, if they qualify for it? In that case, it shouldn't be that bad, just tweak the GSL schedule a bit (like it has been done before), to give the players time to fly to the u.s., compete in the NASL, and fly back.
Personally I think its awful, because that means the "show" is getting more important than the sport (eventually after people are getting used to it and players will freak out ever more just to get higher numbers of viewers for higher salaries). Personally I think the best of the best of the best should compete (not like the braindead ones in Men in Black though) instead of the flashy guys in costumes.
Please dont make the sport ridiculous!
That is just 1 over-exaggerated case so I wouldn't worry about it too much. I don't know why you think it will get out of control when it hasn't in past tournaments. Once they are in, they won't need to try to get more attention because it won't matter. Besides, most people probably won't even bother going for a weird audition video anyway.
I personally love this idea of the video application. Yea of course your not going to be able to know everything about a person from a 2-3 minute video clip but that's not exactly the point.
Just watch the video's and you can tell when the people actually put some thought and energy into answering the question's. Avilo's video for instance, I personally have not heard of the player till watching his video but now that I do I hope he gets a chance to compete and show us what he brings to the game. I even had a good chuckle at the end of it. =)
How anyone could waste their energy hating on this is beyond me. It just doesn't make any logical sense. For those people I would like to say one thing. Something a wise person once said. "What you resist persists". So c'mon guys, there is enough hate going around out there today, no reason to bring it here when something truly awesome is taking place.
On March 05 2011 22:50 Dark.Carnival wrote: This probably has been asked before but, in regards to the videos can it just be an audio with a picture or something like that? I don't have access to a webcam or camera that can shoot a video currently ><
No.... if you don't know ANYONE who has a device capable of getting video I dunno what to tell you O_O, go to an APPLE store and use their computer to make the video, email it to yourself, then delete it? This is 2011 man.
I think NASL wants confident players. Not meeting the camera with your eyes is not good interview material, and thats just with a friend recording. In Avilo's interview he shifts in the chair the entire interview, repeating "definitely" and the same words several times.
With that said Avilo is pretty good, haven't seen too many reps. As for Shew- theres probably around ~50 other protoss's who seem to be on the same page, maybe more.
:O i'm redoing that video :| i managed to get my old laptops webcam to work butttttt the laptop and my mic didn't quite work out so need to change stuff, so that one is like a test-applicationvideo :x
So, I'm not a "hardcore" follower of SC2 or the GSL or anything. I do however enjoy playing casually and will check results of the GSL occasionally to see how the foreigners are doing.
From my perspective, the application videos are great. I don't know many of these players. I can guarantee there are millions of people in North America that know a whole lot less about SC2, and I can guarantee they many of them dont know any players. For this reason, giving some insight into the personality (whether you consider it unprofessional or not) is fantastic for gaining fans and some perspective into the realm of SC2.
On the Korean situation: at first, it was my opinion that it doesn't really matter whether there are Koreans involved or not. The more I think about it, however, the more I think having a few involved will be good for the entire situation. If you think about it, Foreigners going over to Korea have a hell of a time just getting there and having the opportunity to practice in that situation. If the Koreans come here, to our home turf, there will be a lot of people who want to practice their ass off and represent their home country talent to its fullest. I believe this will lead to more intense practice, dedication, and an overall improvement in western play.
Just the perspective of someone who isn't an expert or anything. I'm simply a casual follower. I assume that a large amount of the target audience will be people of similar SC knowledge as me, or perhaps even less (assuming the goal is to widely expand e-sports here)
Its all surrounded by a halo that i dont want for Esports... its not that is bad but the video is in no way a proof of the players proffesionalism that you make a requirement of for being into the NASL.
I mean the end of the video was hilarious , but if its a joke there are better moments to do it lol.
Hope it goes good still , hope you guys dont get overwhelmed by this monster youre creating
After all the time they have had since the announcement, you would think we would start seeing more videos by now, especially since the deadline is less than a week away. Does anyone know why there are so few? Are they possibly keeping some of the bigger names private so that it will be a surprise?
@Chicane, well, It's more than likely that they keep most videos if not all of them for the tourny. Up untill now most of the vids we saw were posted by the players themselves and only the first one was an "official" nasl post. I'm sure most have sent their applications directly to the guys at NASL and the guys at NASL obviuosly want to keep all the hype and all the materials so they can show something new and not stuff that we all saw over and over again even before it all started.
However, it would be nice to see some edited previews/sneak-peaks/montages/ other stuff and it can only help hype this thing even more
On March 07 2011 14:28 nucleo wrote: @Chicane, well, It's more than likely that they keep most videos if not all of them for the tourny. Up untill now most of the vids we saw were posted by the players themselves and only the first one was an "official" nasl post. I'm sure most have sent their applications directly to the guys at NASL and the guys at NASL obviuosly want to keep all the hype and all the materials so they can show something new and not stuff that we all saw over and over again even before it all started.
However, it would be nice to see some edited previews/sneak-peaks/montages/ other stuff and it can only help hype this thing even more
Ya I was kind of thinking they may be holding back a bit, but at the same time, LG and EG are pretty well known teams, and players from both of those teams have made public auditions.
A video i found by searching NASL on youtube, I dont know who this is but hey, heres a video of him atleast!
On March 05 2011 18:33 sylverfyre wrote:
Stop throwing retarded flames at this thread, seriously. I'm surprised there aren't oodles of warnings and bans going on here.
This also seems relevant, feels like there are so many people complaining about things that have already been answered 389 times. If i see 1 more person complaining about how it is retarded to have video interviews decide who gets into a starcraft 2 tournament and not player skill my head will asplode.
On March 07 2011 12:34 Chicane wrote: After all the time they have had since the announcement, you would think we would start seeing more videos by now, especially since the deadline is less than a week away. Does anyone know why there are so few? Are they possibly keeping some of the bigger names private so that it will be a surprise?
Youtube is not the only video-sharing community. Players might not want to go public yet with their videos so maybe they choose other lesser known communities to upload their video interview to.
On March 07 2011 12:34 Chicane wrote: After all the time they have had since the announcement, you would think we would start seeing more videos by now, especially since the deadline is less than a week away. Does anyone know why there are so few? Are they possibly keeping some of the bigger names private so that it will be a surprise?
Youtube is not the only video-sharing community. Players might not want to go public yet with their videos so maybe they choose other lesser known communities to upload their video interview to.
I am pretty sure it has to be Youtube. If they didn't want their interview to go public though... they could just put it on youtube and keep it private... or simply wait until a few days later to upload it. They wouldn't have to put it on another site; that would be a weird solution to trying to keep it private.
On March 07 2011 06:49 godemperor wrote: They always said the current website is only temp, I can only imagine they are upgrading the site to have more than just a trailer and a link
At least there's a league for America now, im sick of staying up till 1:00am in the morning just to watch a couple of koreans battle... im becoming nocturnal! 0_o
"A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be." to dumb it up: stop trying to make/see things the way you want, the world doesnt revolve around you. We know that because of the renasaince, so get over it people. -Albert Einstein
Awesome vid by Catz - the man who plays "standard..of the FUTURE", hahahah. Now that we've got the CatZ of Terran and Zerg established, who will be the one to step up and claim the title of "the CatZ of Protoss"? (Maybe Huk or WhiteRa?)
Yay I was hoping to see Catz. He said he was sure he was the CatZ of zerg but he acted like he was maybe only 99% certain. I think he seems more like the LZGamer of zerg but that is just my opinion
I hope we get to see his Assassin Infestors and Hero Queens in NASL.
Just saw Artosis application video! He must be the person who has invested the most time and love into starcraft, cant wait to see him compete professionaly!
On March 10 2011 03:45 Xeris wrote: I'm very happy to announce that I've been talking to some Korean teams and some very exciting names are going to possibly be in this league !
These are the 5 koreans I want to see in it. Mvp, Nestea, Foxer, MC, St. Bomber
On March 10 2011 03:45 Xeris wrote: I'm very happy to announce that I've been talking to some Korean teams and some very exciting names are going to possibly be in this league !
These are the 5 koreans I want to see in it. Mvp, Nestea, Foxer, MC, St. Bomber
+ JulyZerg
I am really curious how the end distribution will look like. 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 or 3/6 + 2/6 + 1/6 etc :D I hope we will see more KR and EU than NA players. Since skill-wise NA is undoubtedly inferior.
Hahaha, about artosis application vid, it would be in fact amasing if Day[9] decides to go into NASL, but it would break millions of gamers hearts if he stops doing the Day[9]Daily Show
On March 05 2011 22:50 Dark.Carnival wrote: This probably has been asked before but, in regards to the videos can it just be an audio with a picture or something like that? I don't have access to a webcam or camera that can shoot a video currently ><
No.... if you don't know ANYONE who has a device capable of getting video I dunno what to tell you O_O, go to an APPLE store and use their computer to make the video, email it to yourself, then delete it? This is 2011 man.
I am just worried that he might be DQed on a technicality, he is one of my favorite players and I would hate for that to happen.
On March 11 2011 03:23 caradoc wrote: What technicality? QXC's VOD was epic and creative. Its not like NASL is a raging 1984-brazil-esque bureaucracy...
I'm very happy to announce that I've been talking to some Korean teams and some very exciting names are going to possibly be in this league !
stoked!
I agree QXC's video was great, but it was asked earlier by someone else if you could use just a picture and talk for the interview and Xeris had said no. QXCs video doesn't even have talking, so I just wanted to clarify things.
On March 11 2011 03:20 Xeris wrote: Nobody's going to get DQ'd on a technicality. We're not trying to screw people over with this league.
Thanks, I appreciate what you guys are doing to make this event everything we had been hoping for. Your openness about the process and responses to community feedback have been phenomenal.
On March 11 2011 03:20 Xeris wrote: Nobody's going to get DQ'd on a technicality. We're not trying to screw people over with this league.
Are you going to ensure that there has been no abuse of the voting system? I know you have been trying, as I have seen people's votes decreasing in the past, but Avilo got the vast majority of his 23,300 votes in 1-2 days, he would probably attribute this to the release of his replay pack on tl (a thread with 43 posts, half of which are by himself), or some other such detail. I doubt I'm the only one suspicious of abuse in some cases, I used to respect him as a player, but now I'm not so sure. He would have probably got into NASL anyways, I don't see why he had to abuse the system, if he did in fact do so....
Xeris, just for clarification, the deadline for public applications is officially over, right?
So if we see any applications popping up now, they're either [too?] late or coming from players contacted in advance, I assume.
Seeing SlayerSCella ask huk about the videos and deadlines on his stream today was pretty funny. Didn't look like he knew that the due date was a couple days ago. >_>
On March 17 2011 01:25 Bobster wrote: Xeris, just for clarification, the deadline for public applications is officially over, right?
So if we see any applications popping up now, they're either [too?] late or coming from players contacted in advance, I assume.
Seeing SlayerSCella ask huk about the videos and deadlines on his stream today was pretty funny. Didn't look like he knew that the due date was a couple days ago. >_>
I had a dream that avilo was over my house talking, and I looked around sheepishly, then asked him sort of casually...so, the deadline for NASL is today, have you heard anything? Then incontrol popped out of my closet and said...so, what's going on? And I said nothing then started running.
I know neither of these guys at all, I just thought I would share, because no one I know can really appreciate the hilarity of this.
On March 20 2011 06:30 bLuR wrote: Soo what happened to being notified of acceptance/rejection?
The main post says they will publically announce 5 players a day starting on the 22nd March.
so basically, what ur saying is.. they are going to hype this as well? i feel like im being treated as a kid
Why in the world wouldn't they do the smart thing and just have a live announcement show with Incontrol/Gretorp where they can then talk about each of the players for a couple of minutes. It just boggles the mind how much they're trying to milk each and every single piece of information. Makes it seem like they're desperate for publicity. Sigh...
On March 20 2011 06:30 bLuR wrote: Soo what happened to being notified of acceptance/rejection?
The main post says they will publically announce 5 players a day starting on the 22nd March.
so basically, what ur saying is.. they are going to hype this as well? i feel like im being treated as a kid
Why in the world wouldn't they do the smart thing and just have a live announcement show with Incontrol/Gretorp where they can then talk about each of the players for a couple of minutes. It just boggles the mind how much they're trying to milk each and every single piece of information. Makes it seem like they're desperate for publicity. Sigh...
I agree, they're really milking the info for all it's worth. However to be fair, tsl 3 did the same thing with spreading out the korean invite announcement, the bracket announcement and the schedule announcement.
On March 20 2011 06:30 bLuR wrote: Soo what happened to being notified of acceptance/rejection?
The main post says they will publically announce 5 players a day starting on the 22nd March.
so basically, what ur saying is.. they are going to hype this as well? i feel like im being treated as a kid
Why in the world wouldn't they do the smart thing and just have a live announcement show with Incontrol/Gretorp where they can then talk about each of the players for a couple of minutes. It just boggles the mind how much they're trying to milk each and every single piece of information. Makes it seem like they're desperate for publicity. Sigh...
Cause the NASL theme for everything to date is announcing an announcement.
On March 20 2011 06:30 bLuR wrote: Soo what happened to being notified of acceptance/rejection?
The main post says they will publically announce 5 players a day starting on the 22nd March.
so basically, what ur saying is.. they are going to hype this as well? i feel like im being treated as a kid
Why in the world wouldn't they do the smart thing and just have a live announcement show with Incontrol/Gretorp where they can then talk about each of the players for a couple of minutes. It just boggles the mind how much they're trying to milk each and every single piece of information. Makes it seem like they're desperate for publicity. Sigh...
Cause the NASL theme for everything to date is announcing an announcement.
Well i Have an announcement for the NASL. Ima talk about it on 5/20/11. HYPE
On March 23 2011 02:41 GeeseHoward wrote: What happens if NASL breaks their own deadlines? Are they at least going to release a new time schedule today?
On March 23 2011 02:41 GeeseHoward wrote: What happens if NASL breaks their own deadlines? Are they at least going to release a new time schedule today?
On March 23 2011 02:41 GeeseHoward wrote: What happens if NASL breaks their own deadlines? Are they at least going to release a new time schedule today?
When did we break our deadlines?
Stay tuned
I hope you don't announce very obvious players either way i'm looking forward.
On March 23 2011 02:41 GeeseHoward wrote: What happens if NASL breaks their own deadlines? Are they at least going to release a new time schedule today?
On April 05 2011 03:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote: when was that announced? did they make a formal announcement on their web site or is it just buried in a few forum threads?
We've yet to make an official statement, although you can expect one tomorrow or Wednesday at the latest.
EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/lQKuD.jpg)
I wish I would get a reply, I've pmed Xeris as well, but no response yet.
and the fact that most of the talent is still in BW. NASL, to find the champion of the world™ (outside of Korea)!
either way i'm looking forward. 
