EPTcast storm ---> no delay ---> damage
sc2
cast storm ---> 1 second delay ---> damage
they could do it like this... would make storms more useful ( the first hit would always be guaranteed )
A Bit of Simple Khaydarin Amulet Math - Page 14
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nalgene
Canada2153 Posts
cast storm ---> no delay ---> damage sc2 cast storm ---> 1 second delay ---> damage they could do it like this... would make storms more useful ( the first hit would always be guaranteed ) | ||
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lowercase
Canada1047 Posts
On February 27 2011 12:09 Sek-Kuar wrote: Yeah and Thor's 250mm Strike Cannons have 8 DPS because it takes 2 sec to set, then 6 sec to deal 500 dmg and then 2 sec to unset and then there is 50 sec cooldown, so its weakest ability in game with 500 dmg over 60 sec...  And thus Thors are weakest units in game and need serious buff. Seriously guys, start using brain, cooldown after Warp-In affect production rate, but not production time. It takes 5 seconds to make HT. By this logic it takes 5 seconds to make all gateway units. No, they must be "built" by the warpgates in the sense of waiting for the cooldown. Warping them in is extra. As an aside, the warp-in mechanic is a double edged sword: if you are lax in placing units at the end of a cool-down cycle, you lose production time. This is not the case with other production facilities which move on to the next unit in the queue, losing no production time; it is more comparable to missing an inject cycle with Zerg. Saying Protoss units have a 5 second build time is so imbecilic it's beyond comprehension. Get thee back to bronze, heathen. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
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skypacer
China174 Posts
On February 26 2011 15:58 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I think this change is gonna be too big, P needs at least the old BW upgrade back (+50 mana, starts with 63 mana instead of 50). With HTs starting at 50, its like you cant even warp them in in advance vs units in the middle of the map. Its a bit extreme that you can just warp them in as you spot the dropship unloading in your base, but they need something. agree | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
Protoss has extremely mediocre drops: -Stalkers have poor dps and a slow rate of fire. -Zealots cannot even catch workers without charge and the mineral line and buildings hinder them and lower their effective dps as they must move to change targets and cannot focus fire. -Units almost always die Protoss has extremely mediocre drop protection: -Photon cannons melt to marauders with stim -Gateway units fare poorly against marine/marauder with stim -Protoss army is slowest and usually must stay together. So Blizzard doesn't think that high tech solutions should be viable against low tech tactics. Fine. Then do they think that only Terran is allowed to have strong drops and the other races just have to sit and take it? What gives? | ||
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DisaFear
Australia4074 Posts
But that's be funny | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On February 26 2011 15:58 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I think this change is gonna be too big, P needs at least the old BW upgrade back (+50 mana, starts with 63 mana instead of 50). With HTs starting at 50, its like you cant even warp them in in advance vs units in the middle of the map. Its a bit extreme that you can just warp them in as you spot the dropship unloading in your base, but they need something. or nerf DPS to like 120 over 8 seconds to make dodging more important. Or maybe that would make bio even more favorable over mech than it is now. Or, maybe Khaydarin Amulet only gives +25 energy if the unit is warped in from a warp prism. Doesn't make much sense but WPs would be used a lot more. | ||
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Sek-Kuar
Czech Republic593 Posts
On February 27 2011 12:40 lowercase wrote: By this logic it takes 5 seconds to make all gateway units. No, they must be "built" by the warpgates in the sense of waiting for the cooldown. Warping them in is extra. As an aside, the warp-in mechanic is a double edged sword: if you are lax in placing units at the end of a cool-down cycle, you lose production time. This is not the case with other production facilities which move on to the next unit in the queue, losing no production time; it is more comparable to missing an inject cycle with Zerg. Saying Protoss units have a 5 second build time is so imbecilic it's beyond comprehension. Get thee back to bronze, heathen. Yes by this (correct) logic every gateway unit is made in 5 sec, that is correct. Whenever you spend resources for unit it takes 5 seconds to get what you paid for. So yes, production time for all wyrpgate units is 5 seconds. T and Z (and non-warpgate P units) have higher production time, for example when you pay for Marauder it takes 30 sec to get it. As opposed to Zealot who takes 5 sec to get since you paid. By this logic 250mm Strike Cannons also have 50 DPS and not 8, because cooldown is not part of this skill. By this logic Storm have 20 DPS and not 0,58 DPS, because time required to regenarate 75 energy is not part of this skill. By this logic Siege Tank has 45 sec production time and not 195 sec, because building SD, Rax and Fac is not part of building ST. I tryed to say it as easy as possible hope its clear now. | ||
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W2
United States1177 Posts
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On February 27 2011 12:47 Jerubaal wrote: I'm sure Blizzard wishes they could meet this somewhere in the middle, but feels compelled to make the change anyway. If anyone would care to refute my two premises, I'd love to hear your reasons. That the result of this nerf is that Protoss has extremely mediocre drops: -Stalkers have poor dps and a slow rate of fire. -Zealots cannot even catch workers without charge and the mineral line and buildings hinder them and lower their effective dps as they must move to change targets and cannot focus fire. -Units almost always die Protoss has extremely mediocre drop protection: -Photon cannons melt to marauders with stim -Gateway units fare poorly against marine/marauder with stim -Protoss army is slowest and usually must stay together. So Blizzard doesn't think that high tech solutions should be viable against low tech tactics. Fine. Then do they think that only Terran is allowed to have strong drops and the other races just have to sit and take it? What gives? The guaranteed zealot hit during charge does a lot to improve their ability to fend off marauder drops and also their ability to engage in big battles without just evaporating before getting any sits in. That was always the most annoying thing when I played P: chargelots just didn't do anything. Now they will. | ||
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aScle
Australia375 Posts
On February 27 2011 12:09 Sek-Kuar wrote: Yeah and Thor's 250mm Strike Cannons have 8 DPS because it takes 2 sec to set, then 6 sec to deal 500 dmg and then 2 sec to unset and then there is 50 sec cooldown, so its weakest ability in game with 500 dmg over 60 sec... And thus Thors are weakest units in game and need serious buff. Seriously guys, start using brain, cooldown after Warp-In affect production rate, but not production time. It takes 5 seconds to make HT. Your disregarding the fact that the Thor also has a base attack so their dps would be: ((base attack dps * 50) + (250mm dps * 10))/60 which equates to ((46.9*50) + (50 * 10))/60 = 47.41 dps So if we compare this to the other t3 units single target dps Collosus: 18.2dps Ultralisk: : 17.4dps So in no way Thors are the weakest units in game. You could also argue that the other t3 units can do splash damage but the thor can shoot up and also do infinity dps to a ball of pheonix/mutalisk. EDIT: fixed some numbers | ||
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SpinmovE
Canada119 Posts
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lowercase
Canada1047 Posts
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Sek-Kuar
Czech Republic593 Posts
On February 27 2011 13:36 lowercase wrote: This thread is too retarded for me. I QUIT! YOU HEAR THAT TL? I QUIT!!! Im sorry if I made you angry, that wasnt what I wanted. Anyway, see ya. On February 27 2011 13:28 SpinmovE wrote: For the first HT you warp in it only takes 5 seconds to make one, sure, but for every HT after that it takes 55 seconds + 5 second warp in time = 60 seconds. And you must remember that when you warp in those first few HTs, you don't even have storm researched, so you basically spent a ridiculous amount of gas on a unit that can only damage units with energy until storm finishes. What you are talking about is production rate. From one warpgate you can create 1 HT per 55 seconds. But build time is exactly 5 seconds. Right after you gather 150/150 you can start training Ghost, and after 45 sec you get it. So production time is 45 sec. Right after you gather 50/150 you warp-in HT and after 5 sec you have it. So 5 sec is production time. After that there is I believe its 50 sec isnt it? cooldown. Which means that production rate is 1 HT per 55 sec or something. But whatever this isnt all that important - Important thing is that when HT and Ghost are started to produce at same time, then when ghost is finished - HT has 72,5 energy w/o upgrade and ghost has 75 with upgrade. So HT has 2,5ene disadvantage, but was teleported anywhere on battlefield. IMHO Teleport >> 2,5 energy. | ||
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jester-
Canada547 Posts
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Skamtet
Canada634 Posts
On February 27 2011 13:10 W2 wrote: Because you can't warp them in everywhere, I guess.The infester and ghost both have the 25 energy upgrade. Why doesn't the HT have it? Sigh. | ||
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Almin
United States583 Posts
Ghosts and infestors are relatively immobile. However, HT's are not because they can warp in all over the map and wreak damage immediately. You can create HT's whenever you want to, but for infestors and ghosts, you have to build them ahead of the time you choose to use them. Reinforcement of HT's was too strong I guess in Blizzard's eyes. You can reinforce HT storms immediately with gateways, but you can't really do it with ghosts/infestors since they have to walk a long way. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On February 27 2011 07:48 Agh wrote: instead of that i would rather have the ghost version removed and medivacs slightly nerfed while this would be balanced, it would make the match up even more boring than this change would make it if this change makes it to live. they need to leave ht O_O | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
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Necro)Phagist(
Canada6668 Posts
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