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On February 26 2011 15:39 Elefanto wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 15:35 TERRANLOL wrote:On February 26 2011 15:32 TedJustice wrote:On February 26 2011 15:18 Captain Peabody wrote:
The Mothership change is necessary, but unfortunate. Certainly, the ability to destroy an entire opposing army in a few seconds is too strong, and something needed to be done about it... I don't see it as too strong. I mean, you need to build a stargate, a fleet beacon, then spend 400/400 on a mothership which you can only get one of, then you need to wait for it to get enough energy to cast vortex, then you need a bunch of archons which cost an absurd amount of gas. All that to kill whatever happens to get caught in the vortex assuming the mothership gets close enough to actually cast it. It's no worse than nukes, really. It made for a great dynamic, in my opinion. Lol no other race has the ability to forge an army that cannot be beaten by putting more money into it. Sure, that army is difficult to get, but in no circumstances should a race ever be able to auto-win by getting an army. Most protoss players seem to disagree with that idea, but coming from the other perspective of the deathball, I don't think it's reasonable at all. I haven't exploited terran early game too much, but I would much rather have a balanced game throughout than one heavily favored to either race at different phases. -Coming from a master terran macro style player you just described a 200/200 max upgrade mech army bro...................
Ehh. I've been playing with mech and 200/200. From my personal experiences, immortals and charge zealots are one way to deal with mech. The other is to exploit the fact that siege tanks are so slow that going around the siege tanks and entering the main is often a move that wins the game.
Thor banshee tank hellion ghost + planetary fortress is the only composition i've ever had any real success with, but once it starts putting me against master's players again('ve been playing ona smurf) I imagine it won't be so successful for any longer.
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- An alert has been added when the Spawn Larva buff expires.
Anyone else stoked on this?
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On February 26 2011 15:58 Mohdoo wrote:
When I imagine past epic PvT games, I don't want to think about those games without amulet...Totally different games, much more 1-sided...
When I imagine past average PvT games, I want to think about those games without amulet.... Totally different games, much less 1-sided...
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On February 26 2011 15:43 bokeevboke wrote:
Can someone tell me what chargelot changes actually mean? is it a buff or nerf?
It's a buff. Think of broodlords shooting broodlings. The moment the broodling hits the ground, it does damage to the unit it was shot at(as opposed to damaging the unit when it actually collides), so you can't dodge it with something like concussive shell. This same set up is being given to the zealot with charge. It will target a unit, then charge toward it. Regardless of whether or not its able to reach that unit due to concussive or something else, it will damage the unit when it charges.
That's my understanding, at least.
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On February 26 2011 15:35 TERRANLOL wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 15:32 TedJustice wrote:On February 26 2011 15:18 Captain Peabody wrote:
The Mothership change is necessary, but unfortunate. Certainly, the ability to destroy an entire opposing army in a few seconds is too strong, and something needed to be done about it... I don't see it as too strong. I mean, you need to build a stargate, a fleet beacon, then spend 400/400 on a mothership which you can only get one of, then you need to wait for it to get enough energy to cast vortex, then you need a bunch of archons which cost an absurd amount of gas. All that to kill whatever happens to get caught in the vortex assuming the mothership gets close enough to actually cast it. It's no worse than nukes, really. It made for a great dynamic, in my opinion. Lol no other race has the ability to forge an army that cannot be beaten by putting more money into it. Sure, that army is difficult to get, but in no circumstances should a race ever be able to auto-win by getting an army. Most protoss players seem to disagree with that idea, but coming from the other perspective of the deathball, I don't think it's reasonable at all. I haven't exploited terran early game too much, but I would much rather have a balanced game throughout than one heavily favored to either race at different phases. -Coming from a master terran macro style player
I forgot that they took Vikings out of the game. You're right, once Protoss gets a mothership you should just GG.
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I have work tomorrow but fuck it.
I'm so fucking pissed about the Protoss Nerf
MOTHERSHIP
Even with KiwiKaki using it and a lot of people starting to warm up to it, I never liked it. I still consider it to be the Arbiter's retarded slow cousin and not worth the name it has been given. The only saving grace and light at the end of the tunnel that gave me hope was the archon toilet which was 2 entirely separate tech path but made the mother ship actually live up to the whole "It-can-change-the-tide-of-war" shtick. Well not anymore. Whatever was remotely good about it is now gone.
Vortex is now almost useless and the only thing MS does other than look cool is take 400/400/8. Vortex now is an invitation for ppl to throw all their units in so that they dont lose their army, come back out after 15-20 sec and fight as if nothing happened.
And don't tell me Recall. Recall isnt worth that many resources
HIGH TEMPLAR
Protoss players mostly usually go for Colossus since its on the tech path with observers. Which made switching to HT a very expensive move but that was worth it at the end. Yes storm is great but the amulet was just as amazing. If it wasnt, it wouldve been like the speed upgrade for VRs. nobody would get it. but EVERY soul that goes HT knows how vital it is. now a HT that just warped is pretty much useless unless u wanna feedback something for the next 44 sec. 50/150 for a unit that rolls its thumbs for 44 second. What a sweet fucking deal there.
Storm is what we need and if the opponent is going mass MMM or hydra or Wtv unit that storms excels with, having to wait for it every time u get a HT killed or HT's that used one and are being morphed into archons, its absolute bullshit.
Don't tell me Ghosts/infestors can do this and that....Ghosts have nukes, cloaking, sniping and EMP which out ranges Storm anyway. Infestors have burrow moving, infested marines which they can spam to no end, neural parasite and fungal which got a nice buff.
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I think the amulet nerf was much needed, since there was absolutely no way at all to harass a late game protoss as a zerg or (sometimes as a terran) when the toss could warp in and storm instantly, however I disagree with the magnitude, you only needed it to be to 70, not remove the upgrade completely...
The infestor thing is actually a buff for the people wondering, though it will make fungals a little harder to do if they are a missile, but they finally do a bit of damage to marauders now, making them more worth it versus terran (and protoss)
I disagree with the viking flower, it was a really interesting way of controlling the air that didn't seem overly powerful, but then again it does raise the skill ceiling needed, so that is good there.
Vortex was also a needed nerf versus zerg, the ability to instantly kill half of an army for free is a very unfair power, now it is more like stasis from BW. However this invincibility coming out of vortext may make it good to throw ones own units in it, and then reinforce in the time it allows you...
Charge was a good buff to chargelots, since it seemed they just wouldn't hit fleeing units a lot of the time.
Stim time increase makes zergs and protoss less likely to lose to early rushes by terran, so that is good.
Same goes for bunkers for zerg, those extra 5 seconds could be crucial to holding off a bunker rush 
Also very happy that my infestors won't die to a few tank shots quite so easily, lets me pull the darn slow things back after fungals easier.
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On February 26 2011 16:02 spidii wrote:
- An alert has been added when the Spawn Larva buff expires.
Anyone else stoked on this?
The alert is just text on the left side of your screen...like everything else. When you're playing you can't pay attention to it anyway.
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Next patch notes:
Psi-storm upgrade removed.
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Too bad they didn't actually buff corruptors as planned in that leak paste. Will have to see how that infestor missile works out, if it's not totally crap like seeker missile when it comes to dodging it, infestor mass might actually come viable in all matchups.
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On February 26 2011 16:01 HowardRoark wrote:
I had hoped for a complete removal of Collossus due to how terrible it makes spectating any P game. Colos really is the anti-thesis for Plaguuu-moments.
LOL well yeah you're really going to love watching P matches now that the the only viable tech path other than colossus has been nerfed to uselessness.
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On February 26 2011 16:05 Traveler wrote:
Vortex was also a needed nerf versus zerg, the ability to instantly kill half of an army for free is a very unfair power, now it is more like stasis from BW. However this invincibility coming out of vortext may make it good to throw ones own units in it, and then reinforce in the time it allows you...
HOW In the Bluest of hells is it more like Brood War?
If I freeze a part of your army in BW, you cant make ur other units touch the frozen one and become frozen themselves.
Now if I want to cut ur army in half and vortex it, all u have to do is run the rest of ur army in there. How is that like BW?
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On February 26 2011 16:03 Techno wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 15:58 Mohdoo wrote:
When I imagine past epic PvT games, I don't want to think about those games without amulet...Totally different games, much more 1-sided... When I imagine past average PvT games, I want to think about those games without amulet.... Totally different games, much less 1-sided...
Not sure how removing amulet affects games where Protoss goes Collosus... And since that's every game...
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To add something interesting to the Vortex discussion, Zerg could supercede an Archon Toilet by putting 18 or so banelings (depending on upgrades) into the Vortex, with the result that the Archons instantly die before getting to attack. This is cost effective for 2 or more Archons in the Vortex.
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On February 26 2011 16:09 Kindred wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 16:05 Traveler wrote:
Vortex was also a needed nerf versus zerg, the ability to instantly kill half of an army for free is a very unfair power, now it is more like stasis from BW. However this invincibility coming out of vortext may make it good to throw ones own units in it, and then reinforce in the time it allows you...
HOW In the Bluest of hells is it more like Brood War? If I freeze a part of your army in BW, you cant make ur other units touch the frozen one and become frozen themselves. Now if I want to cut ur army in half and vortex it, all u have to do is run the rest of ur army in there. How is that like BW?
It is more like broodwar in that getting vortex/stasis'ed did not mean your army was gone when it ended... if I am a zerg player who is maxed, I simply cannot engage a mothership army without knowing that half my army is guaranteed to die without doing any damage... that doesn't leave me without a lot of options...
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On February 26 2011 15:51 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 14:02 ectonym wrote:
Remember the shitstorm people went through on the first big PTR patch that was soon after revoked: fungal growth no longer has the ability to target air
that change was gone very quickly, if Protoss knew how to properly QQ like us Zerg, the Amulet will be back I beg of you, oh wise and esteemed Zerg QQers, teach us your ways and lead us back into the light!
Well for starters, you could play a race that's actually inferior to the other 2.
That might get the ball rolling in the right direction.
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On February 26 2011 16:11 Nemireck wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 15:51 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 26 2011 14:02 ectonym wrote:
Remember the shitstorm people went through on the first big PTR patch that was soon after revoked: fungal growth no longer has the ability to target air
that change was gone very quickly, if Protoss knew how to properly QQ like us Zerg, the Amulet will be back I beg of you, oh wise and esteemed Zerg QQers, teach us your ways and lead us back into the light! Well for starters, you could play a race that's actually inferior to the other 2. That might get the ball rolling in the right direction.
Considering the win rates that came with the leaked patch notes a few days back, they already are...
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On February 26 2011 16:11 Traveler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 16:09 Kindred wrote:On February 26 2011 16:05 Traveler wrote:
Vortex was also a needed nerf versus zerg, the ability to instantly kill half of an army for free is a very unfair power, now it is more like stasis from BW. However this invincibility coming out of vortext may make it good to throw ones own units in it, and then reinforce in the time it allows you...
HOW In the Bluest of hells is it more like Brood War? If I freeze a part of your army in BW, you cant make ur other units touch the frozen one and become frozen themselves. Now if I want to cut ur army in half and vortex it, all u have to do is run the rest of ur army in there. How is that like BW? It is more like broodwar in that getting vortex/stasis'ed did not mean your army was gone when it ended... if I am a zerg player who is maxed, I simply cannot engage a mothership army without knowing that half my army is guaranteed to die without doing any damage... that doesn't leave me without a lot of options...
If your a zerg going against a MS, you need to spread ur units so that if vortex does come, not many get taken in. And a lot of ppl when they get stormed, just run their shit in it. They shouldnt. Now with this buff, they can do that. Not to mention, This is a protoss MOTHERSHIP (yes it needs caps lol). Its suppose to be the scary thing that can change the tide of battle like it was intended. Thats why we can only take 1 out and it cost a lot of supply and resources and its slow as hell. Now though its literally like an Arbiter slow retarded cousin.
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EPT
