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Patch 1.3 on PTR - Page 36

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L3gendary
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1470 Posts
February 26 2011 03:24 GMT
#701
how come no one mentioned how ridiculous storm is against zerg armies. It decimates raoch/hydra cus they are so slow and lings die very quickly due to low health. a blink stalker/immortal/ht army is extremely deadly if not op against zerg.
Watching Jaedong play purifies my eyes. -Coach Ju Hoon
tyrless
Profile Joined July 2010
United States485 Posts
February 26 2011 03:24 GMT
#702
Disappointing that they are reducing diversity of tactics in order to force "balance". Zerg doesn't need more ways to do damage it needs more ways to deal with the mobility of other races, Infestors continue to get the shaft. Removing Amulet is not wise, it's appropriate as a costly lategame upgrade. Mothership becomes increasingly pointless, vortex radius is so small that only an afk bronze leaguer would let their entire army get devoured by one. Terrans are looking ok in their changes, still reeling from the awful depot-before-rax change.
101toss
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
3232 Posts
February 26 2011 03:24 GMT
#703
On February 26 2011 12:19 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 12:17 101toss wrote:
On February 26 2011 12:15 Spectorials wrote:
Lol @ comparison between Ghost and HT....

Ghost is lower down the tech tree AND you don't need to research EMP.

EMP doesn't kill hydras/lings/bio. Storm does. That's why storm is 200/200 and is high up on the tech tree.


Your right but snipe does. It doesn't require an upgrade and is actually cheaper in Energy. While it is single Target it does an insanely good amount of Damage. Also Like I mentioned above, Ghosts have a regular attack and don't need energy to attack like HTs.

Ghosts can turn into archons when they run out of energy, right?

Math doesn't kill champions and neither do wards
Dommk
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia4865 Posts
February 26 2011 03:24 GMT
#704
Oh wow, I just realized the effect on Carriers. High Templars are necessary for Carriers to actually succeed, or they get ripped by vikings/Marines, by doing this change it is also a nerf to Carrier Tech as well..
palookieblue
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia326 Posts
February 26 2011 03:25 GMT
#705
On February 26 2011 12:15 Shooks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 12:11 Spekulatius wrote:
On February 26 2011 12:02 Shooks wrote:
On February 26 2011 11:59 Lipski wrote:
On February 26 2011 11:51 Dark-Storm wrote:
My biggest problem with the Amulet Removal is they dont bother thinking about the ghost upgrade to start with 75 energy so they can EMP our shit but we no longer have our best spell for HT on warp in


lol, do you really dont see a difference here?

let me clarify. i see protoss army attacking me. i produce ghost, BOOM, ghost is here 40 seconds later. it can instant EMP if you researched energy upgrade, but you still need to make them BEFORE the engagement.

now with protoss:

you see terran army attacking you. you warp-in HT, and BOOM it's here instantly. you can storm right away if you upgraded energy and researched storm. you dont necessarily start production of ht before battle, or to defend drops itp. as long as you got power field there.

+ ghost is more expensive.


Please don't post again, ever.


What is wrong with you? Having 25 posts and telling someone who's bringing up legitimate, accurate arguments to shut up? Calm down, man.


What does 25 posts have to do with anything? It doesn't. Legitimate and accurate argument? LOL

You're being very silly.
Instead of stating what you disagree with, you tell him to not post again, ever. Your second post is pretty much the same thing - completely dismissing the points raised without any rebuttal.

If you don't want to be courteous to others at least contribute something yourself. =\

OT: The biggest talking point is the proposed Amulet change. Blizzard have mentioned in the past that they felt that Storm was extremely powerful, so I'm not surprised with this patch. I'm pretty happy with most the changes, can't wait to use the Cattlebruiser and it's upgraded speed. ((:
oyoyo
solistus
Profile Joined April 2010
United States172 Posts
February 26 2011 03:26 GMT
#706
On February 26 2011 12:17 101toss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 12:15 Spectorials wrote:
Lol @ comparison between Ghost and HT....

Ghost is lower down the tech tree AND you don't need to research EMP.

EMP doesn't kill hydras/lings/bio. Storm does. That's why storm is 200/200 and is high up on the tech tree.


Ghosts aren't a counter to hydras/lings/bio. They're a counter to casters but useful against any Protoss composition thanks to EMP. While we're pointing out random differences between the units without explaining a context in which those differences matter: HTs don't attack. Ghosts do. HTs don't snipe. Ghosts do. HTs don't cloak. Ghosts do. HTs don't nuke. Ghosts do. HTs have 80 hp (inc. shields). Ghosts have 100. What do any of those things have to do with Storm's research cost vs. EMP not requiring research? Nothing. Anyone can cherry pick random details about two units to point out an advantage one has over the other, but that's not a very useful way to discuss balance changes.
Units don't counter units. Strategies counter strategies.
`Forte
Profile Joined August 2010
United States128 Posts
February 26 2011 03:26 GMT
#707
On February 26 2011 12:21 Uhnno wrote:
Show nested quote +

-Notifications for mules/CB/spawn larvae seem unnecessary. They add clutter and reward worse players who didn't practice multi-tasking as much as better ones, and as such the reward for being able to multi task well is reduced. Granted most people probably wouldn't have a problem with it now if it was implemented in beta (like how the whole "omg MBS" fad died down), but it still seems unnecessary, and part of me is afraid of a slippery slope where I'm playing a game that tells me, "Your Nexus is not building probes." This is all coming from a Gold/Platinum league player who constantly forgets chrono-boosts.


I don't really get why it is an unnecessary change. Many people forget to CB/mule/larva inject, even at the higher leagues. Maybe CB moreso than the other 2 mechanics, especially late game, but there is no real downside to the change. It's like adding the ingame clock a few patches back. There are other ways to measure timings, and the better players know how to (ie amount mined from the minerals/gas etc), but having a tool to aid your macro shouldn't be considered bad or unnessary. If you are already able to perfect use up your CB/inject larva/use mules, then the change shouldn't even bother you at all.


If I were a player with very good mechanics, the tool would bother me quite a bit, because people who didn't spend nearly the time I did have the same advantage I do because the game is telling them to do their mechanics. It's making the macro mechanics ceiling much easier to get to, and I don't think it's good for the quality or longevity of a game when everybody can reach a certain "good" point with minimal practice.
Apolo
Profile Joined May 2010
Portugal1259 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-26 03:31:24
February 26 2011 03:26 GMT
#708
On February 26 2011 12:19 ZeroTalent wrote:

And for the "no warp-in storm harass" complaint -- people know the warp prism can carry units too, right?


Yeah, they can also heal units + help regen shields, pretty awesome i hear. That's why warp prisms are a staple unit of the protoss army.

Not only that, protoss can warp in huge dps units, all ranged ofc.

Protoss drops are rarely ever as good as terran's for a reason. And for that same reason, protoss need a defense, since they dont have other means like the mobility mobility that zerg has, but as for the warping in, the only unit that makes defense viable and allow protoss to leave their bases are the HT.
thisisSSK
Profile Joined August 2010
United States179 Posts
February 26 2011 03:26 GMT
#709
why nerf an archon toilet that happens literally 1/1,000,000 games???
And who's going to get templars anymore?
Lucius22
Profile Joined February 2011
172 Posts
February 26 2011 03:26 GMT
#710
On February 26 2011 12:24 L3gendary wrote:
how come no one mentioned how ridiculous storm is against zerg armies. It decimates raoch/hydra cus they are so slow and lings die very quickly due to low health. a blink stalker/immortal/ht army is extremely deadly if not op against zerg.


sry, but templars in pvz are almost useless. void/collo do the job 10x better
MechaCthulhu
Profile Joined November 2010
United States136 Posts
February 26 2011 03:28 GMT
#711
On February 26 2011 12:26 [Avarice] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 12:21 Uhnno wrote:

-Notifications for mules/CB/spawn larvae seem unnecessary. They add clutter and reward worse players who didn't practice multi-tasking as much as better ones, and as such the reward for being able to multi task well is reduced. Granted most people probably wouldn't have a problem with it now if it was implemented in beta (like how the whole "omg MBS" fad died down), but it still seems unnecessary, and part of me is afraid of a slippery slope where I'm playing a game that tells me, "Your Nexus is not building probes." This is all coming from a Gold/Platinum league player who constantly forgets chrono-boosts.


I don't really get why it is an unnecessary change. Many people forget to CB/mule/larva inject, even at the higher leagues. Maybe CB moreso than the other 2 mechanics, especially late game, but there is no real downside to the change. It's like adding the ingame clock a few patches back. There are other ways to measure timings, and the better players know how to (ie amount mined from the minerals/gas etc), but having a tool to aid your macro shouldn't be considered bad or unnessary. If you are already able to perfect use up your CB/inject larva/use mules, then the change shouldn't even bother you at all.


If I were a player with very good mechanics, the tool would bother me quite a bit, because people who didn't spend nearly the time I did have the same advantage I do because the game is telling them to do their mechanics. It's making the macro mechanics ceiling much easier to get to, and I don't think it's good for the quality or longevity of a game when everybody can reach a certain "good" point with minimal practice.


Better get rid of auto mining then, huh?
That which can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.
Shooks
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia256 Posts
February 26 2011 03:28 GMT
#712
On February 26 2011 12:25 palookieblue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 12:15 Shooks wrote:
On February 26 2011 12:11 Spekulatius wrote:
On February 26 2011 12:02 Shooks wrote:
On February 26 2011 11:59 Lipski wrote:
On February 26 2011 11:51 Dark-Storm wrote:
My biggest problem with the Amulet Removal is they dont bother thinking about the ghost upgrade to start with 75 energy so they can EMP our shit but we no longer have our best spell for HT on warp in


lol, do you really dont see a difference here?

let me clarify. i see protoss army attacking me. i produce ghost, BOOM, ghost is here 40 seconds later. it can instant EMP if you researched energy upgrade, but you still need to make them BEFORE the engagement.

now with protoss:

you see terran army attacking you. you warp-in HT, and BOOM it's here instantly. you can storm right away if you upgraded energy and researched storm. you dont necessarily start production of ht before battle, or to defend drops itp. as long as you got power field there.

+ ghost is more expensive.


Please don't post again, ever.


What is wrong with you? Having 25 posts and telling someone who's bringing up legitimate, accurate arguments to shut up? Calm down, man.


What does 25 posts have to do with anything? It doesn't. Legitimate and accurate argument? LOL

You're being very silly.
Instead of stating what you disagree with, you tell him to not post again, ever. Your second post is pretty much the same thing - completely dismissing the points raised without any rebuttal.

If you don't want to be courteous to others at least contribute something yourself. =\

OT: The biggest talking point is the proposed Amulet change. Blizzard have mentioned in the past that they felt that Storm was extremely powerful, so I'm not surprised with this patch. I'm pretty happy with most the changes, can't wait to use the Cattlebruiser and it's upgraded speed. ((:


I've already posted my Opinion like 5 pages ago, learn to read. The guy was trying to compare HTs to Ghosts, rofl, they have completely different roles and can't be compared, if you don't know anything about the game you should refrain from posting.
KonohaFlash
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada1590 Posts
February 26 2011 03:28 GMT
#713
After testing out fungal growth a bit with a friend, we've come to the conclusion that this buff is crazy good.

it takes 2 fungals to kill a marauder, so basically 8 seconds. In order to kill a stalker it takes 3 fungals so that's basically 12 seconds with the added aid of zerglings. This is a really good buff, if take in to fact that you aren't only going to be using infestors to attack, this means that a zerg army will deal out far more DPS.
Louuster
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2869 Posts
February 26 2011 03:28 GMT
#714
Nooooo the archon toilet is the only reason I play protoss in team games!
Kim Taek Yong fighting~
FliedLice
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany7494 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-26 03:28:50
February 26 2011 03:28 GMT
#715
On February 26 2011 12:24 101toss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 12:20 Lucius22 wrote:
On February 26 2011 12:15 Ratel wrote:
first they made voidrays useless without flux veins and now hts
looks like blizzards wants to to have only 1 toss build for all matchups..


coming soon: removal of thermal lance

Given blizz's track record, I'm expecting this to happen



EMP was designed to COUNTER storm/fungal/other spellcasters. The crying here is like saying "omg wtf why my roaches die to immortals?" EMP hard counters storm. Deal with it by attempting to minimize it's effect, not by crying for a research nerf


Awesome, a counter that's available before the actual unit it counters.
Kevmeister @ Dota2
BamBam
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
745 Posts
February 26 2011 03:28 GMT
#716
On February 26 2011 12:24 Shooks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 12:22 mishimaBeef wrote:
uhh actually vortex was a game breaking spell considering a low supply archon toilet can take out all zerg army in seconds with a proper vortex


Play Protoss, GL getting that unit comp against a good player, and if you do, GL Vortexing he's whole army, every good Zerg player would spread he's units out if he sees a MS.


Tell that to Catz >_>
"two is way better than twice as one" - artosis
Azarkon
Profile Joined January 2010
United States21060 Posts
February 26 2011 03:28 GMT
#717
If HTs become used less, ghosts are also going to be used less, since they are not efficient against colossi-based armies. So TvP becomes even more one-dimensional colossi vs. viking. I hope to see more air play, at least.
101toss
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
3232 Posts
February 26 2011 03:28 GMT
#718
Fellow P players!

While the Templar nerf is certainly disheartening, there is silver lining!

4gate is now even more gosu, with a larger timing window before stim, and slower bunkers! Why cry about templar when you can win before templar!?

I'm going back to 4gate PvT. No joke.
Math doesn't kill champions and neither do wards
Spectorials
Profile Joined October 2010
558 Posts
February 26 2011 03:29 GMT
#719
So basically if you want to build HT as toss you are even MORE vulnerable to some sort of push or timing because you have to get the HT's over other gateway units...

Right...

Like it wasn't already risky enough before when you tech to HTs
Spekulatius
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany2413 Posts
February 26 2011 03:29 GMT
#720
On February 26 2011 12:19 tree.hugger wrote:
Apparently protoss are not supposed to go anything but colossi ever. It's not even about being resistant to change, it's about Blizzard changing stuff that's really not a problem.

Like motherships? Why on earth do you need to nerf vortex? It's not a gamebreaking spell. If used correctly, yeah it can do a lot of damage. But he'll, so can a lot of things. And Motherships are rarely ever used seriously in games. So why bother?


It sure looks quite unfortunately the balancing progress leads to the shutdown of many styles of play. We've seen reapers become a mere scouting unit, nydus becoming costineffective as an offensive structure, no carrier usage at all and now the HT and mothership nerf.
On the other hand, if fungal actually can be stopped by PDD now, we might see an increasing amout of raven usage (which I consider a good thing) as well as the BC buff whose importance can't be really estimated right now. I just see Blizzard is trying, and maybe in the end there will be a place for every unit like in BW (even if queens only had occasional use in ZvZ), as opposed to a one-dimensional style of play (I sure would love to see HTs as a real alternative to Colossi).
Always smile~
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