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On February 26 2011 12:02 Shooks wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 11:59 Lipski wrote:On February 26 2011 11:51 Dark-Storm wrote:
My biggest problem with the Amulet Removal is they dont bother thinking about the ghost upgrade to start with 75 energy so they can EMP our shit but we no longer have our best spell for HT on warp in lol, do you really dont see a difference here? let me clarify. i see protoss army attacking me. i produce ghost, BOOM, ghost is here 40 seconds later. it can instant EMP if you researched energy upgrade, but you still need to make them BEFORE the engagement. now with protoss: you see terran army attacking you. you warp-in HT, and BOOM it's here instantly. you can storm right away if you upgraded energy and researched storm. you dont necessarily start production of ht before battle, or to defend drops itp. as long as you got power field there. + ghost is more expensive. Please don't post again, ever.
What is wrong with you? Having 25 posts and telling someone who's bringing up legitimate, accurate arguments to shut up? Calm down, man.
User was warned for this post
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On February 26 2011 12:10 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:05 Dommk wrote:On February 26 2011 12:02 Lipski wrote:On February 26 2011 11:59 BLinD-RawR wrote:On February 26 2011 11:55 Dommk wrote:
So energy regens at a rate of 0.5625 per ingame second, thus you have to wait 44.44sec before a Templar can Storm now
That is so dumb, 44.44seconds is an abusrd amount of time to have to wait in very late game, especially when there are ghosts, EMP is now even more powerful--if you manage to EMP the Toss's stocked up Templar, then he is fucked Just make templars much earlier then you should.but still making Protoss have one skill unit is not fair for Terran and Zerg. EMP needs to be an upgrade. you are aware that ghost produce 40 game seonds, right? it's not like they appear on battlefield instantly, everywhere on power field, like ht. so now, ghosts ned 40 sec to emp if you got energy researched. ht needs about 44 seconds + warp-in time to storm. i say it's pretty damn close, considering ghosts are more expensive. One ghost cancels out multiple Templar, it is not a 1 for 1 thing, EMP is an AOE ability, you can easily nab multiple Templar with a single EMP AND it does shield damage to any other Toss untis caught, so if Toss gets any Tempalrs EMP'd, the is fucked, he has to wait 44seconds for his next Storm, he isn't going to last that long if you were banking on Storm to aid you in the fight Spread observers, keep vision, feedback, and split templar (avoid 1hotkey syndrome). If your templar get emp'd, make them into archons if you really need the support immediately.
EMP out ranges Feedback, ghosts are much faster than Templar, so in all situations, Ghosts will always be able to EMP Templar, if you spread your Templars then it becomes difficult to actually use storm since they have to move into range to cast it, even with 9range they are very slow and stim kiting already makes them bunch up when you want to cast multiple storms.
Warping in Templars was a bit too strong, but now having to wait 45seconds for a new set of Storms is absurd, especially since those can again get EMP'd as Ghosts will build up energy while you are waiting on your new Storms
Feedback also costs 50energy, every Feedback you use delays a Storm by 90seconds, at that stage, without amulet, you have just EMP'd yourself
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See, my thing with HTs vs Ghost is that ghost has area of effect (useful against EVERY protoss unit), has cloak, has an attack and a spell attack(can be used against everything) as well AND nukes. HTs have feeback (useless against anything without energy), storm(useful against bio, useless against anything else) and can morph into an archon (massive unit with little use)
The only thing that HTs had over ghosts was that they could be instantly summoned anywhere on the map and be useful, you take that away and ghosts have a severe advantage. You can get ghosts without energy and they can at least attack, HTs just kinda waddle around in the middle of an army waiting to die. This basically takes away any use the HT had in the late game vs Terran, or any point of the game. Why am I gonna waste supply on something that has to sit around for 45 seconds before it is useful?
And it isn't hard to get ghosts. You should have them in your army anyways against Toss because of how useful they are.
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On February 26 2011 12:04 Lipski wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:01 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 11:59 Lipski wrote:On February 26 2011 11:51 Dark-Storm wrote:
My biggest problem with the Amulet Removal is they dont bother thinking about the ghost upgrade to start with 75 energy so they can EMP our shit but we no longer have our best spell for HT on warp in lol, do you really dont see a difference here? let me clarify. i see protoss army attacking me. i produce ghost, BOOM, ghost is here 40 seconds later. it can instant EMP if you researched energy upgrade, but you still need to make them BEFORE the engagement. now with protoss: you see terran army attacking you. you warp-in HT, and BOOM it's here instantly. you can storm right away if you upgraded energy and researched storm. you dont necessarily start production of ht before battle, or to defend drops itp. as long as you got power field there. + ghost is more expensive. Thats why you can scan the enemy base with your main building, produce the Ghosts beforehand (building a Templars Archive and getting 2(!) upgrades took its time) and walk them to you army at a proper movement speed. hmm, so why cant you make hts beforehand?
Because it takes like twice as long to do so?
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On February 26 2011 12:10 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:05 Dommk wrote:On February 26 2011 12:02 Lipski wrote:On February 26 2011 11:59 BLinD-RawR wrote:On February 26 2011 11:55 Dommk wrote:
So energy regens at a rate of 0.5625 per ingame second, thus you have to wait 44.44sec before a Templar can Storm now
That is so dumb, 44.44seconds is an abusrd amount of time to have to wait in very late game, especially when there are ghosts, EMP is now even more powerful--if you manage to EMP the Toss's stocked up Templar, then he is fucked Just make templars much earlier then you should.but still making Protoss have one skill unit is not fair for Terran and Zerg. EMP needs to be an upgrade. you are aware that ghost produce 40 game seonds, right? it's not like they appear on battlefield instantly, everywhere on power field, like ht. so now, ghosts ned 40 sec to emp if you got energy researched. ht needs about 44 seconds + warp-in time to storm. i say it's pretty damn close, considering ghosts are more expensive. One ghost cancels out multiple Templar, it is not a 1 for 1 thing, EMP is an AOE ability, you can easily nab multiple Templar with a single EMP AND it does shield damage to any other Toss untis caught, so if Toss gets any Tempalrs EMP'd, the is fucked, he has to wait 44seconds for his next Storm, he isn't going to last that long if you were banking on Storm to aid you in the fight Spread observers, keep vision, feedback, and split templar (avoid 1hotkey syndrome). If your templar get emp'd, make them into archons if you really need the support immediately.
so have fun feedbacking 5+ ghosts before all your templar are out of mana. terran can just get as many ghost as protoss gets templar. and it needs like wtf apm and micro to feedback mass ghosts. not to mention that spreading many hts is impossible.
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On February 26 2011 12:11 101toss wrote:
EMP doesn't kill units.
Stop the QQ.
True, but i still feel it should be an upgrade.
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-I can see why they changed the mothership (honestly, the ability to wipe out a 200 food army with 8 Archons and a vortex is broken despite how difficult it is getting to that point) but the change just seems bad and seems to remove most of the other benefits that vortex had (such as repositioning your army for a better concave, no point if they're going to be invincible for your first hits).
-Removing amulet? uhh. Now templars take approx. 45 game seconds to get the energy for storm after warping in. Obviously this greatly reduces its use in a push given that you have to have them for a certain amount of time before you push + you can't quickly reinforce with storms, but it also makes it harder to defend against late game small attacks/drops because you can't warp an HT or two to storm and a few gateway units for clean-up. You also can't warp in HTs from Warp Prisms to harass mineral lines and instead have to transport them over. All this while EMP (possibly) remains untouched. Take that as you will.
-Notifications for mules/CB/spawn larvae seem unnecessary. They add clutter and reward worse players who didn't practice multi-tasking as much as better ones, and as such the reward for being able to multi task well is reduced. Granted most people probably wouldn't have a problem with it now if it was implemented in beta (like how the whole "omg MBS" fad died down), but it still seems unnecessary, and part of me is afraid of a slippery slope where I'm playing a game that tells me, "Your Nexus is not building probes." This is all coming from a Gold/Platinum league player who constantly forgets chrono-boosts.
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first they made voidrays useless without flux veins and now hts
looks like blizzards wants to to have only 1 toss build for all matchups..
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Lol @ comparison between Ghost and HT....
Ghost is lower down the tech tree AND you don't need to research EMP.
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On February 26 2011 12:11 Spekulatius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:02 Shooks wrote:On February 26 2011 11:59 Lipski wrote:On February 26 2011 11:51 Dark-Storm wrote:
My biggest problem with the Amulet Removal is they dont bother thinking about the ghost upgrade to start with 75 energy so they can EMP our shit but we no longer have our best spell for HT on warp in lol, do you really dont see a difference here? let me clarify. i see protoss army attacking me. i produce ghost, BOOM, ghost is here 40 seconds later. it can instant EMP if you researched energy upgrade, but you still need to make them BEFORE the engagement. now with protoss: you see terran army attacking you. you warp-in HT, and BOOM it's here instantly. you can storm right away if you upgraded energy and researched storm. you dont necessarily start production of ht before battle, or to defend drops itp. as long as you got power field there. + ghost is more expensive. Please don't post again, ever. What is wrong with you? Having 25 posts and telling someone who's bringing up legitimate, accurate arguments to shut up? Calm down, man.
What does 25 posts have to do with anything? It doesn't. Legitimate and accurate argument? LOL
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On February 26 2011 12:11 101toss wrote:
EMP doesn't kill units.
Stop the QQ.
Wow.. bravo. I applaud you for this well thought out flawless logic.
I guess you would be fine with them giving high templars an aoe that brings all enemy units down to 1 health. Don't worry, that spell wouldn't actually kill any units so it's automatically fine.
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Fungal growth is SOOO GOOD on PTR. Just for clarification. It does 36dmg in 4 seconds (48 to armored) now and is VERY good against bio. The projectile is somewhat slow and its kinda cool trying to land a fungal.
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On February 26 2011 12:15 Spectorials wrote:
Lol @ comparison between Ghost and HT....
Ghost is lower down the tech tree AND you don't need to research EMP.
EMP doesn't kill hydras/lings/bio. Storm does. That's why storm is 200/200 and is high up on the tech tree.
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On February 26 2011 12:17 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:15 Spectorials wrote:
Lol @ comparison between Ghost and HT....
Ghost is lower down the tech tree AND you don't need to research EMP. EMP doesn't kill hydras/lings/bio. Storm does. That's why storm is 200/200 and is high up on the tech tree.
On February 26 2011 12:16 Chicane wrote:Wow.. bravo. I applaud you for this well thought out flawless logic. I guess you would be fine with them giving high templars an aoe that brings all enemy units down to 1 health. Don't worry, that spell wouldn't actually kill any units so it's automatically fine.
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On February 26 2011 12:15 Shooks wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:11 Spekulatius wrote:On February 26 2011 12:02 Shooks wrote:On February 26 2011 11:59 Lipski wrote:On February 26 2011 11:51 Dark-Storm wrote:
My biggest problem with the Amulet Removal is they dont bother thinking about the ghost upgrade to start with 75 energy so they can EMP our shit but we no longer have our best spell for HT on warp in lol, do you really dont see a difference here? let me clarify. i see protoss army attacking me. i produce ghost, BOOM, ghost is here 40 seconds later. it can instant EMP if you researched energy upgrade, but you still need to make them BEFORE the engagement. now with protoss: you see terran army attacking you. you warp-in HT, and BOOM it's here instantly. you can storm right away if you upgraded energy and researched storm. you dont necessarily start production of ht before battle, or to defend drops itp. as long as you got power field there. + ghost is more expensive. Please don't post again, ever. What is wrong with you? Having 25 posts and telling someone who's bringing up legitimate, accurate arguments to shut up? Calm down, man. What does 25 posts have to do with anything? It doesn't. Legitimate and accurate argument? LOL
nvm, keep up the good posting
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United States7483 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:16 Chicane wrote:Wow.. bravo. I applaud you for this well thought out flawless logic. I guess you would be fine with them giving high templars an aoe that brings all enemy units down to 1 health. Don't worry, that spell wouldn't actually kill any units so it's automatically fine.
And for the record, most pro players consider the defiler to be one of the dumbest units of sc1 ever. Plague was a ridiculously dumb spell.
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On February 26 2011 12:10 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:05 Dommk wrote:On February 26 2011 12:02 Lipski wrote:On February 26 2011 11:59 BLinD-RawR wrote:On February 26 2011 11:55 Dommk wrote:
So energy regens at a rate of 0.5625 per ingame second, thus you have to wait 44.44sec before a Templar can Storm now
That is so dumb, 44.44seconds is an abusrd amount of time to have to wait in very late game, especially when there are ghosts, EMP is now even more powerful--if you manage to EMP the Toss's stocked up Templar, then he is fucked Just make templars much earlier then you should.but still making Protoss have one skill unit is not fair for Terran and Zerg. EMP needs to be an upgrade. you are aware that ghost produce 40 game seonds, right? it's not like they appear on battlefield instantly, everywhere on power field, like ht. so now, ghosts ned 40 sec to emp if you got energy researched. ht needs about 44 seconds + warp-in time to storm. i say it's pretty damn close, considering ghosts are more expensive. One ghost cancels out multiple Templar, it is not a 1 for 1 thing, EMP is an AOE ability, you can easily nab multiple Templar with a single EMP AND it does shield damage to any other Toss untis caught, so if Toss gets any Tempalrs EMP'd, the is fucked, he has to wait 44seconds for his next Storm, he isn't going to last that long if you were banking on Storm to aid you in the fight Spread observers, keep vision, feedback, and split templar (avoid 1hotkey syndrome). If your templar get emp'd, make them into archons if you really need the support immediately.
And if your terran, emp and 1a. Thats where the problem is. your required to do so much as a protoss, while the mmm ball just walk in and easily destroy everything.
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On February 26 2011 12:11 101toss wrote:
EMP doesn't kill units.
Stop the QQ.
Storm also can't do 800+ damage.
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On February 26 2011 12:10 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:05 Dommk wrote:On February 26 2011 12:02 Lipski wrote:On February 26 2011 11:59 BLinD-RawR wrote:On February 26 2011 11:55 Dommk wrote:
So energy regens at a rate of 0.5625 per ingame second, thus you have to wait 44.44sec before a Templar can Storm now
That is so dumb, 44.44seconds is an abusrd amount of time to have to wait in very late game, especially when there are ghosts, EMP is now even more powerful--if you manage to EMP the Toss's stocked up Templar, then he is fucked Just make templars much earlier then you should.but still making Protoss have one skill unit is not fair for Terran and Zerg. EMP needs to be an upgrade. you are aware that ghost produce 40 game seonds, right? it's not like they appear on battlefield instantly, everywhere on power field, like ht. so now, ghosts ned 40 sec to emp if you got energy researched. ht needs about 44 seconds + warp-in time to storm. i say it's pretty damn close, considering ghosts are more expensive. One ghost cancels out multiple Templar, it is not a 1 for 1 thing, EMP is an AOE ability, you can easily nab multiple Templar with a single EMP AND it does shield damage to any other Toss untis caught, so if Toss gets any Tempalrs EMP'd, the is fucked, he has to wait 44seconds for his next Storm, he isn't going to last that long if you were banking on Storm to aid you in the fight Spread observers, keep vision, feedback, and split templar (avoid 1hotkey syndrome). If your templar get emp'd, make them into archons if you really need the support immediately.
You're fucked either way:
1. You feedback all of his Ghosts and don't have any energy left to storm
or
2. You don't feedback the Ghosts and try to get your retardedly slow HTs into the range of the Terran army, might be able to get one half decent storm off the Terran then just backs out of and get all your units EMP'd in the process. :[
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EPT
