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On February 26 2011 12:16 Chicane wrote:Wow.. bravo. I applaud you for this well thought out flawless logic. I guess you would be fine with them giving high templars an aoe that brings all enemy units down to 1 health. Don't worry, that spell wouldn't actually kill any units so it's automatically fine.
Yeah, plague was a big waste of 200/200 in BW, wasn't it?
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On February 26 2011 12:17 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:15 Spectorials wrote:
Lol @ comparison between Ghost and HT....
Ghost is lower down the tech tree AND you don't need to research EMP. EMP doesn't kill hydras/lings/bio. Storm does. That's why storm is 200/200 and is high up on the tech tree.
Your right but snipe does. It doesn't require an upgrade and is actually cheaper in Energy. While it is single Target it does an insanely good amount of Damage. Also Like I mentioned above, Ghosts have a regular attack and don't need energy to attack like HTs.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Apparently protoss are not supposed to go anything but colossi ever. It's not even about being resistant to change, it's about Blizzard changing stuff that's really not a problem.
Like motherships? Why on earth do you need to nerf vortex? It's not a gamebreaking spell. If used correctly, yeah it can do a lot of damage. But he'll, so can a lot of things. And Motherships are rarely ever used seriously in games. So why bother?
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On February 26 2011 12:10 Whitewing wrote:
No, it killed two tech paths for protoss.
My biggest complaint with the race was that colossus was used far to often: a lot of matches revolve entirely around RUSHING to get the colossus out, or massing up a big ball of colossus.
It was boring, it was dull.
Now we have no legitimate choice? High templar are now totally screwed, not only does it take forever to tech for them, but we need to spend gas NOW to have a storm 40 seconds from now, assuming we keep the slow ass high temp ALIVE, and they don't get EMP'd.
Now terrans are going to crack up when you go high templar and sacrifice hellions to burn them down, or cloak ghosts and take them out or something. Not only that, but they're still absurdly gas intensive, meaning on two base you can only afford zealots to go with them.
So lead with your army, and use the HTs during the engagement. Zerg doesn't lead with Banelings or Brood Lords; Terran don't lead with Tanks, and Protoss don't lead with Colossus. Why should HTs be the one high-damage unit that's usable without any support at all?
And for the "no warp-in storm harass" complaint -- people know the warp prism can carry units too, right?
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An alert has been added when MULEs expire.
# An alert has been added when the Chrono Boost buff expires.
# An alert has been added when the Spawn Larva buff expires.
hahahahaha the joke has begun. Hey lets take mechanics out of the game altogether, that would be a great idea
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On February 26 2011 12:16 Chicane wrote:Wow.. bravo. I applaud you for this well thought out flawless logic. I guess you would be fine with them giving high templars an aoe that brings all enemy units down to 1 health. Don't worry, that spell wouldn't actually kill any units so it's automatically fine.
Not to mention, he said, spread units out, avoid 1 control syndrome and be EXTREMELY aware of a unit that has a moderate speed and fucking CLOAK JUST to avoid 1 fucking spell.
Yeah, thats balanced.
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On February 26 2011 12:15 Ratel wrote:
first they made voidrays useless without flux veins and now hts
looks like blizzards wants to to have only 1 toss build for all matchups..
coming soon: removal of thermal lance
collosus are too strong
im calling it
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The amulet change would be fine if Ghosts were also changed drastically to adjust, right now it is no contest, High Temps just got flipped upside down, going from having instant storms to having to wait 45seconds
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-Notifications for mules/CB/spawn larvae seem unnecessary. They add clutter and reward worse players who didn't practice multi-tasking as much as better ones, and as such the reward for being able to multi task well is reduced. Granted most people probably wouldn't have a problem with it now if it was implemented in beta (like how the whole "omg MBS" fad died down), but it still seems unnecessary, and part of me is afraid of a slippery slope where I'm playing a game that tells me, "Your Nexus is not building probes." This is all coming from a Gold/Platinum league player who constantly forgets chrono-boosts.
I don't really get why it is an unnecessary change. Many people forget to CB/mule/larva inject, even at the higher leagues. Maybe CB moreso than the other 2 mechanics, especially late game, but there is no real downside to the change. It's like adding the ingame clock a few patches back. There are other ways to measure timings, and the better players know how to (ie amount mined from the minerals/gas etc), but having a tool to aid your macro shouldn't be considered bad or unnessary. If you are already able to perfect use up your CB/inject larva/use mules, then the change shouldn't even bother you at all.
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This just nudges protoss users towards going 4 gate pushes more in PvT. They now have a longer timing window against terran as their stim research takes longer and it is harder for bunkers to finish in response while all the protoss nerfs have no negative effect on this rush.
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Ugh zerg will insanely scary now, especially with maps getting generally bigger. I feel toss probably got nerfed a bit to much, that is to say, personally I think khayden was holding lategame PvT back a lot in straight up army collition, but I think this will leave a lot of weaknesses in defenses for toss, where I'm not sure if they will be able to stop rine drops fast enough/cost effectively.
Changes to the terran are interesting, not sure just how much stim 30sec later will change except for the obvious rushes/allins.
Personally I feel there are way to many big changes at the same time, along with the subtle buff of zerg via map pool. Infestors really will be insane :/ But yer, gotta see what happens in reality before I can say anything more.
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uhh actually vortex was a game breaking spell considering a low supply archon toilet can take out all zerg army in seconds with a proper vortex
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Wow Blizzard must really fucking love the Colossus and Terran since they nerved every techroute protoss has at least once now. What is this? I don't even know.
I so hate the Colossus as a toss. What is next i ask myself. Upgrade requirement for Force Fields? lol
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On February 26 2011 12:20 AmaZing wrote:
An alert has been added when MULEs expire.
# An alert has been added when the Chrono Boost buff expires.
# An alert has been added when the Spawn Larva buff expires.
hahahahaha the joke has begun. Hey lets take mechanics out of the game altogether, that would be a great idea
Eh, who even needs alerts? Spawn Larva eventually becomes ingrained as muscle memory, you aren't going to notice the alert when something important is going on.
And if you actually want to Chronoboost something non-stop, it isn't that hard at all, most people already know the timings in their head, I doubt the alert will even do anything (if it is the same as all the other alerts, being some small icon on the top left hand side of your screen, which I never ever notice)
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Well...w/e. I'll either purely 4gate or just switch race. It'll be more fun.
EDIT: I dont' get why they don't just make the amulet upgrade go from +25 to +20 starting energy or something. Better than a pure removal...
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United States7483 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:19 ZeroTalent wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:10 Whitewing wrote:
No, it killed two tech paths for protoss.
My biggest complaint with the race was that colossus was used far to often: a lot of matches revolve entirely around RUSHING to get the colossus out, or massing up a big ball of colossus.
It was boring, it was dull.
Now we have no legitimate choice? High templar are now totally screwed, not only does it take forever to tech for them, but we need to spend gas NOW to have a storm 40 seconds from now, assuming we keep the slow ass high temp ALIVE, and they don't get EMP'd.
Now terrans are going to crack up when you go high templar and sacrifice hellions to burn them down, or cloak ghosts and take them out or something. Not only that, but they're still absurdly gas intensive, meaning on two base you can only afford zealots to go with them.
So lead with your army, and use the HTs during the engagement. Zerg doesn't lead with Banelings or Brood Lords; Terran don't lead with Tanks, and Protoss don't lead with Colossus. Why should HTs be the one high-damage unit that's usable without any support at all? And for the "no warp-in storm harass" complaint -- people know the warp prism can carry units too, right?
You missed the entire point. It's now so hard to use high templar effectively compared to colossus (and colossus were already considered the better choice in most situations, that's why they are used far more frequently), that the templar will never see the light of day again. Ghosts lead fights all the time with EMP and frequently do over 1000 damage with a single EMP to protoss forces. It also completely shuts down the main feature of immortals, in addition to killing all energy of all casters (sentries and high templars).
I also don't recall storm doing all it's damage instantly. Last time I recall, players stim and run out of storms all the bloody time without taking more than 30 damage from them, and that's laughable to medivacs.
Vortex needed a change for the mothership, but they made the wrong change. The problem is that vortex is intended to be crowd control. You vortex half the army, kill the other, while the vortex'd group chills. But if you do that, your foe runs his entire army in and laughs as you get no advantage. So people started using colossi and archons to do aoe damage the instant the vortex ends, bringing value back to the spell. They should have just brought it back to its original design by sucking in all the units hit by the original cast, and not letting additional units enter the vortex after it is cast. That fixes both problems: it being used to kill whole armies instantly AND not being usable as CC.
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yeah ok blizzard, maybe its time to hire someone who actually knows how to play the game for your balance team?
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Pretty good patch overall. Amulet was certainly too strong, i dunno if it's the right move to make though.Makes the games pretty one dimensional. Would prefer collossus getting a nerf though.
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On February 26 2011 12:20 Lucius22 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 12:15 Ratel wrote:
first they made voidrays useless without flux veins and now hts
looks like blizzards wants to to have only 1 toss build for all matchups.. coming soon: removal of thermal lance
Given blizz's track record, I'm expecting this to happen
EMP was designed to COUNTER storm/fungal/other spellcasters. The crying here is like saying "omg wtf why my roaches die to immortals?" EMP hard counters storm. Deal with it by attempting to minimize it's effect, not by crying for a research nerf
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On February 26 2011 12:22 mishimaBeef wrote:
uhh actually vortex was a game breaking spell considering a low supply archon toilet can take out all zerg army in seconds with a proper vortex
Play Protoss, GL getting that unit comp against a good player, and if you do, GL Vortexing he's whole army, every good Zerg player would spread he's units out if he sees a MS.
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EPT
