EPTNow that Ive been playing Toss for the last few weeks, I think I feel the same way about amulet.
Prepare for a month of Sky Terran dominance if this goes live, BTW.
Patch 1.3 on PTR - Page 33
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
red_b
United States1267 Posts
Now that Ive been playing Toss for the last few weeks, I think I feel the same way about amulet. Prepare for a month of Sky Terran dominance if this goes live, BTW. | ||
|
flexy
United States182 Posts
| ||
|
Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:02 Lipski wrote: you are aware that ghost produce 40 game seonds, right? it's not like they appear on battlefield instantly, everywhere on power field, like ht. so now, ghosts ned 40 sec to emp if you got energy researched. ht needs about 44 seconds + warp-in time to storm. i say it's pretty damn close, considering ghosts are more expensive. One ghost cancels out multiple Templar, it is not a 1 for 1 thing, EMP is an AOE ability, you can easily nab multiple Templar with a single EMP AND it does shield damage to any other Toss untis caught, so if Toss gets any Tempalrs EMP'd, the is fucked, he has to wait 44seconds for his next Storm, he isn't going to last that long if you were banking on Storm to aid you in the fight | ||
|
FishFuzz99
United States152 Posts
I'm sad to see no amulet too. | ||
|
nalgene
Canada2153 Posts
On February 26 2011 11:50 Spekulatius wrote: In BW, the upgrade gave High Templar +50 max energy and +12 starting energy iirc. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/High_Templar http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/High_templar_(StarCraft) No faster regen. it went from 50/200 to 62.5/250 ( up to 3 storms if unused for a long time ) sc2 is 50/200 to 75/200 now it's just a 350/350 unit with very limited spells and no good damage ones like a planet cracker | ||
|
NExt
Australia1651 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:05 TehForce wrote: you all behave like its the end of the world -.- the only thing which will really change with the high templar nerf is, that a pylon next to your expansion is no longer sufficent to defend it from a bigger harrass -.- protoss still has by far the best defense mechanic (warp in right where the unit is needed). so keep cool people but but... you have a planetary fortress? warping in units doesn't do much to vs a strike team of Stim + Medv | ||
|
101toss
3232 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:05 loving it wrote: That should really have nothing to do with why they don't explain the patch notes anymore. =/ Blizzard merged with Activision 2 years before Starcraft 2 got released They were explaining the patch notes in the beta, what was the reason behind not doing it anymore? Actually the real reason I would expect for most of these changes is "most of our b.net forum posters reflected feedback that indicated the need for balance changes" I love bnet forums and its QQ | ||
|
Lucius22
172 Posts
| ||
|
goswser
United States3519 Posts
| ||
|
ZeroTalent
United States297 Posts
On February 26 2011 11:35 NExt wrote: Grandmaster League Questoin! So... are they saying that people don't get bump'd up and down from Grandmaster? Seeing the word Season, I'm thinking that means every ladder reset only. Have I interpreted this wrong? No, you can be promoted/demoted at any time. In fact, you can be demoted from Grandmaster simply for not playing, while you have to lose your way out of the other divisions. EDIT: a side effect of this is that it means top players with smurf accounts will be less likely to have 2 accounts in the top 200, so the top 200 will become a bit more accurate. I'm fine with some way to re-balance early game TvZ in favor of Zerg, but yeah that stim change really does mean TvP is going to be a 4gate every single time. It's either 4rax or bunker up every single game *sigh*. Couldn't they have just made the RoF on marines slightly longer to reduce DPS or decrease the stim RoF bonus? | ||
|
SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:02 Lipski wrote: you are aware that ghost produce 40 game seonds, right? it's not like they appear on battlefield instantly, everywhere on power field, like ht. so now, ghosts ned 40 sec to emp if you got energy researched. ht needs about 44 seconds + warp-in time to storm. i say it's pretty damn close, considering ghosts are more expensive. Ghosts are not really that much more expensive, Since you can get them out earlier and the cost of the upgrades and research time for HTs was so long that if you see the templar archives you can get your ghost out. Also Ghosts should be much more expensive, as they can actually damage units with a regular attack unlike HTs it is a decent trade off since HTs only had 2 abilities while ghosts have cloak, snipe, EMP, and Nuke. | ||
|
101toss
3232 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:08 ZeroTalent wrote: No, you can be promoted/demoted at any time. In fact, you can be demoted from Grandmaster simply for not playing, while you have to lose your way out of the other divisions. I'm fine with some way to re-balance early game TvZ in favor of Zerg, but that stim change really does mean TvP is going to be a 4gate every single time. It's either 4rax or bunker up every single game *sigh*. Couldn't they have just made the RoF on marines slightly longer to reduce DPS or decrease the stim RoF bonus? Not to mention the bunkering up takes even more planning | ||
|
vrok
Sweden2541 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:07 NExt wrote: but but... you have a planetary fortress? warping in units doesn't do much to vs a strike team of Stim + Medv Planetary fortresses are more like offensive cockblocks than defense. That only makes it worse though. Sorry.  | ||
|
flexy
United States182 Posts
| ||
|
Shooks
Australia256 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:05 gakkgakk wrote: He should not post here again because his facts are incorrect? No, because he's an idiot. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:05 Spekulatius wrote: Exchanging the Khaydarin Amulet for Archon immunity vs any disable (concussive/fungal) wouldn't lower the incentive to get HTs and we would see more archons. But I'm just theorycrafting. I'm happy with the patch, it definitely did more good than bad. No, it killed two tech paths for protoss. My biggest complaint with the race was that colossus was used far to often: a lot of matches revolve entirely around RUSHING to get the colossus out, or massing up a big ball of colossus. It was boring, it was dull. Now we have no legitimate choice? High templar are now totally screwed, not only does it take forever to tech for them, but we need to spend gas NOW to have a storm 40 seconds from now, assuming we keep the slow ass high temp ALIVE, and they don't get EMP'd. Now terrans are going to crack up when you go high templar and sacrifice hellions to burn them down, or cloak ghosts and take them out or something. Not only that, but they're still absurdly gas intensive, meaning on two base you can only afford zealots to go with them. This is not a good change, at all, it just means toss will now only get colossus. It's not like terrans couldn't stim, run out of storm with medivacs, and laugh as they heal through the damage without losing units. | ||
|
101toss
3232 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:05 Dommk wrote: One ghost cancels out multiple Templar, it is not a 1 for 1 thing, EMP is an AOE ability, you can easily nab multiple Templar with a single EMP AND it does shield damage to any other Toss untis caught, so if Toss gets any Tempalrs EMP'd, the is fucked, he has to wait 44seconds for his next Storm, he isn't going to last that long if you were banking on Storm to aid you in the fight Spread observers, keep vision, feedback, and split templar (avoid 1hotkey syndrome). If your templar get emp'd, make them into archons if you really need the support immediately. | ||
|
Apolo
Portugal1259 Posts
On February 26 2011 11:59 Lipski wrote: lol, do you really dont see a difference here? let me clarify. i see protoss army attacking me. i produce ghost, BOOM, ghost is here 40 seconds later. it can instant EMP if you researched energy upgrade, but you still need to make them BEFORE the engagement. now with protoss: you see terran army attacking you. you warp-in HT, and BOOM it's here instantly. you can storm right away if you upgraded energy and researched storm. you dont necessarily start production of ht before battle, or to defend drops itp. as long as you got power field there. + ghost is more expensive. No, i'm sorry but it's not like that. You have a bigger tech path to get to high templars, and 2 upgrades, while ghosts is half than that, they attack, they have cloak, emp has more range, decloaks units, and not only it takes out shields, but also energy from Ht and sentries. If that's not enough, protoss also doesn't go around with warp prisms full of units that can kill your mineral line in 2 swipes or units that can snipe your CC or tech buildings in less than 20s. People need to stop doing stupid comparisons like that. It seems like you as terran just want to drop wherever you want and the slow protoss army miles away has to turn back, or warp in units to their death. Because gate units die to MM easily, and never a protoss has as many gates to match how many units are in the drops, and even if he had, it would be so cost inneficient, the protoss sooner or later would lose because he was wasting so many units trying to defend drops. | ||
|
101toss
3232 Posts
Stop the QQ. User was warned for this post | ||
|
Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
I don't get the BC speed buff, unless they just want BC's to be used more..... but if that's the case, what about carriers, and archons? Not to mention the slew of upgrades that both terran and toss have that never see the light of day, obs or prism speed upgrade anyone? Bunker capacity upgrade? A little overpriced for what they do. My suggestions, I think what they really need to do is consider a buff for immortals, like maybe a range upgrade at the robo support bay. So there is an alternative to colossus. Immortals just get countered by to many cheep units to be nearly as useful as colossus, after the early game. Shield upgrade is something else that has been bothering me. Although toss heals shields, the 200/200 price is bad. As I thought about it more I began to realize that having 3 things to upgrade on your units is a double edged sword. Partly because the effectiveness of armor upgrades is 1/2 as good for toss, as they are for zerg or terran. Because they don't count for 1/2 of a toss units health (the shields). Also, they should really consider giving stalkers +2 attack dmg per upgrade, because roaches get +2 per upgrade, hydras and terran infantry shoot twice as often. Meaning that stalkers get weaker by comparison, as upgrades accumulate through the duration of a long game. These kinds of things could compensate for taking the amulet out of the game. But let's face it a patch like this will only make protoss MORE dependent on colossus, which already are not difficult to hard counter with corruptors, vikings or voids, and colossus are over used when compared to HT, carriers, archons, immortals, and motherships. As for terran, I think the stim build time nerf is the wrong idea. What terran really needs to just have stims effectiveness nerfed (the attack speed) coupled with a buff to some factory units. The fact that right now terrans are more likely to use tier 1 throughout the game, and use their factory as a floating scout is pretty telling of a bigger issue. I for one would like to see terrans insane harass units, such as the banshee and hellion nerfed slightly(at least how fast they kill workers) perhaps the blue flame and cloak upgrades made longer research time. Maybe even a -3 dmg nerf to marauders. Then, give tanks a 5 base dmg buff, hellions a 5 base dmg buff, and thors a larger anti-air splash. Or perhaps even putting vikings at the factory instead of starport. So a reactored factory could make vikings or hellions 2 at a time. Bio just seems to strong early and too weak late game. Factory builds just seem to take to long to get going, are not flexible enough, and don't have a good enough pay off because of the other races macro and mobility capabilities. Zerg I'm puzzled about. It seems like zergs were suffering for months from cheese. But over nerfing of the other races early units (reapers + zlot build time, now stim and bunker rushes) coupled with the roach range buff has given zerg some of the best cheese and all in's around. I think the bunker build time may only add to cheesy play across all races vs T. I'm okay with the infestor changes. They were a little to weak health wise and fungal was a bit too hard to deal with. Having 3 infestors gave zerg the ability to just deny almost any attacks, while the only way to beat a zerg is to prevent them from going macro crazy. It was a bit unfair imo. Even with this 4 second nerf, the infestors still got 2 buffs, +dmg to armored and their health. So I don't think zergs really have too much to grieve about here. I'm still not sure I agree with the philosophy of "deal serious damage or do serious pressure to zerg in the first 12 minutes or the game becomes unwinnable" I just don't like how that works at all from a design standpoint. Especially when each patch seems to make it harder to do damage to zerg early, and makes them even stronger in early aggression or cheeses. But let's be honest, with a year until heart of the swarm and another expansion promised after that, (legacy of the void) we have a long bumpy road of patching to a very deep and complex game. While I may not agree with all the changes, or the direction they appear to be pointing the game in, I am happy to see changes so frequently, and I am eager to see the games evolution in future patches. | ||
| ||
