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Patch 1.3 on PTR - Page 33

Forum Index > SC2 General
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red_b
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1267 Posts
February 26 2011 03:05 GMT
#641
I remember when blizzard made roaches 2 supply right after I switched to Zerg.

Now that Ive been playing Toss for the last few weeks, I think I feel the same way about amulet.

Prepare for a month of Sky Terran dominance if this goes live, BTW.
Those small maps were like a boxing match in a phone booth.
flexy
Profile Joined February 2011
United States182 Posts
February 26 2011 03:05 GMT
#642
they really needed to nerf colossus range too tho
o_o
Dommk
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia4865 Posts
February 26 2011 03:05 GMT
#643
On February 26 2011 12:02 Lipski wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 11:59 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On February 26 2011 11:55 Dommk wrote:
So energy regens at a rate of 0.5625 per ingame second, thus you have to wait 44.44sec before a Templar can Storm now

That is so dumb, 44.44seconds is an abusrd amount of time to have to wait in very late game, especially when there are ghosts, EMP is now even more powerful--if you manage to EMP the Toss's stocked up Templar, then he is fucked


Just make templars much earlier then you should.but still making Protoss have one skill unit is not fair for Terran and Zerg.

EMP needs to be an upgrade.


you are aware that ghost produce 40 game seonds, right? it's not like they appear on battlefield instantly, everywhere on power field, like ht. so now, ghosts ned 40 sec to emp if you got energy researched. ht needs about 44 seconds + warp-in time to storm. i say it's pretty damn close, considering ghosts are more expensive.

One ghost cancels out multiple Templar, it is not a 1 for 1 thing, EMP is an AOE ability, you can easily nab multiple Templar with a single EMP AND it does shield damage to any other Toss untis caught, so if Toss gets any Tempalrs EMP'd, the is fucked, he has to wait 44seconds for his next Storm, he isn't going to last that long if you were banking on Storm to aid you in the fight
FishFuzz99
Profile Joined February 2010
United States152 Posts
February 26 2011 03:06 GMT
#644
Mothership nerf? really?
I'm sad to see no amulet too.
nalgene
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada2153 Posts
February 26 2011 03:06 GMT
#645
On February 26 2011 11:50 Spekulatius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 11:42 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On February 26 2011 11:39 GinDo wrote:
On February 26 2011 11:36 justinsroy wrote:
Hi, im justinsroy, and im a race switcher

I really hope they change some of this stuff, HT with no energy upgrade..? Really?

"Hi Jroy!!"



Alot of Protoss' are spoiled. In BW they didn't have this Upgrade and storm was still scary. And dont argue damage. Units in BW didn't clump up as much.


they did have the upgrade,but instead of giving +25 energy at the start they gave them a faster regen rate.


In BW, the upgrade gave High Templar +50 max energy and +12 starting energy iirc.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/High_Templar
http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/High_templar_(StarCraft)

No faster regen.


it went from 50/200 to 62.5/250 ( up to 3 storms if unused for a long time )

sc2 is 50/200 to 75/200

now it's just a 350/350 unit with very limited spells and no good damage ones like a planet cracker


Year 2500 Greater Israel ( Bahrain, Cyprus, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Gaza Strip, West Bank, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Yemen )
NExt
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia1651 Posts
February 26 2011 03:07 GMT
#646
On February 26 2011 12:05 TehForce wrote:
you all behave like its the end of the world -.- the only thing which will really change with the high templar nerf is, that a pylon next to your expansion is no longer sufficent to defend it from a bigger harrass -.-

protoss still has by far the best defense mechanic (warp in right where the unit is needed). so keep cool people


but but... you have a planetary fortress?
warping in units doesn't do much to vs a strike team of Stim + Medv
Waiting for Protoss Jesus
101toss
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
3232 Posts
February 26 2011 03:07 GMT
#647
On February 26 2011 12:05 loving it wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 11:51 101toss wrote:
On February 26 2011 11:50 loving it wrote:
Blizzard needs to step up their explanation of these patch notes.

Didn't Blizzard use to explain the patch notes for the beta everytime a new one came out?

If Blizzard could just make sense and explain all of their decisions behind ALL these changes, then I think they'd get more understanding from us. But they don't, which isn't fair. And now there's hidden patch notes behind everything too? I don't get it. Why must you be like this Blizzard?!

Blizzard lacks transparency after merging with activision


That should really have nothing to do with why they don't explain the patch notes anymore. =/ Blizzard merged with Activision 2 years before Starcraft 2 got released They were explaining the patch notes in the beta, what was the reason behind not doing it anymore?

Actually the real reason I would expect for most of these changes is "most of our b.net forum posters reflected feedback that indicated the need for balance changes"

I love bnet forums and its QQ
Math doesn't kill champions and neither do wards
Lucius22
Profile Joined February 2011
172 Posts
February 26 2011 03:07 GMT
#648
so this is officially the worst patch in sc2 history?
goswser
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3519 Posts
February 26 2011 03:07 GMT
#649
Hmmm.....wonder if the infestor change is a nerf of a buff? Sure it means the units are stunned for less time, but it also means that damage is dealt faster, i.e. if you fungal then attack a group of marines with banelings then it will take less banes to kill the marines.
say you were born into a jungle indian tribe where food was scarce...would you run around from teepee to teepee stealing meat scraps after a day lazying around doing nothing except warming urself by a fire that you didn't even make yourself? -rekrul
ZeroTalent
Profile Joined December 2010
United States297 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-26 03:10:21
February 26 2011 03:08 GMT
#650
On February 26 2011 11:35 NExt wrote:
Grandmaster League Questoin!

So... are they saying that people don't get bump'd up and down from Grandmaster? Seeing the word Season, I'm thinking that means every ladder reset only. Have I interpreted this wrong?


No, you can be promoted/demoted at any time. In fact, you can be demoted from Grandmaster simply for not playing, while you have to lose your way out of the other divisions. EDIT: a side effect of this is that it means top players with smurf accounts will be less likely to have 2 accounts in the top 200, so the top 200 will become a bit more accurate.

I'm fine with some way to re-balance early game TvZ in favor of Zerg, but yeah that stim change really does mean TvP is going to be a 4gate every single time. It's either 4rax or bunker up every single game *sigh*. Couldn't they have just made the RoF on marines slightly longer to reduce DPS or decrease the stim RoF bonus?
Can we get an official definition of "all-in"? Please?
SigmaoctanusIV
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States3313 Posts
February 26 2011 03:08 GMT
#651
On February 26 2011 12:02 Lipski wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 11:59 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On February 26 2011 11:55 Dommk wrote:
So energy regens at a rate of 0.5625 per ingame second, thus you have to wait 44.44sec before a Templar can Storm now

That is so dumb, 44.44seconds is an abusrd amount of time to have to wait in very late game, especially when there are ghosts, EMP is now even more powerful--if you manage to EMP the Toss's stocked up Templar, then he is fucked


Just make templars much earlier then you should.but still making Protoss have one skill unit is not fair for Terran and Zerg.

EMP needs to be an upgrade.


you are aware that ghost produce 40 game seonds, right? it's not like they appear on battlefield instantly, everywhere on power field, like ht. so now, ghosts ned 40 sec to emp if you got energy researched. ht needs about 44 seconds + warp-in time to storm. i say it's pretty damn close, considering ghosts are more expensive.



Ghosts are not really that much more expensive, Since you can get them out earlier and the cost of the upgrades and research time for HTs was so long that if you see the templar archives you can get your ghost out. Also Ghosts should be much more expensive, as they can actually damage units with a regular attack unlike HTs it is a decent trade off since HTs only had 2 abilities while ghosts have cloak, snipe, EMP, and Nuke.
I am Godzilla You are Japan
101toss
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
3232 Posts
February 26 2011 03:08 GMT
#652
On February 26 2011 12:08 ZeroTalent wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 11:35 NExt wrote:
Grandmaster League Questoin!

So... are they saying that people don't get bump'd up and down from Grandmaster? Seeing the word Season, I'm thinking that means every ladder reset only. Have I interpreted this wrong?


No, you can be promoted/demoted at any time. In fact, you can be demoted from Grandmaster simply for not playing, while you have to lose your way out of the other divisions.

I'm fine with some way to re-balance early game TvZ in favor of Zerg, but that stim change really does mean TvP is going to be a 4gate every single time. It's either 4rax or bunker up every single game *sigh*. Couldn't they have just made the RoF on marines slightly longer to reduce DPS or decrease the stim RoF bonus?

Not to mention the bunkering up takes even more planning
Math doesn't kill champions and neither do wards
vrok
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden2541 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-26 03:09:19
February 26 2011 03:08 GMT
#653
On February 26 2011 12:07 NExt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 12:05 TehForce wrote:
you all behave like its the end of the world -.- the only thing which will really change with the high templar nerf is, that a pylon next to your expansion is no longer sufficent to defend it from a bigger harrass -.-

protoss still has by far the best defense mechanic (warp in right where the unit is needed). so keep cool people


but but... you have a planetary fortress?
warping in units doesn't do much to vs a strike team of Stim + Medv

Planetary fortresses are more like offensive cockblocks than defense. That only makes it worse though. Sorry.
"Starcraft 2 very easy game" - White-Ra
flexy
Profile Joined February 2011
United States182 Posts
February 26 2011 03:09 GMT
#654
Very good patch
o_o
Shooks
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia256 Posts
February 26 2011 03:09 GMT
#655
On February 26 2011 12:05 gakkgakk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 12:02 Shooks wrote:
On February 26 2011 11:59 Lipski wrote:
On February 26 2011 11:51 Dark-Storm wrote:
My biggest problem with the Amulet Removal is they dont bother thinking about the ghost upgrade to start with 75 energy so they can EMP our shit but we no longer have our best spell for HT on warp in


lol, do you really dont see a difference here?

let me clarify. i see protoss army attacking me. i produce ghost, BOOM, ghost is here 40 seconds later. it can instant EMP if you researched energy upgrade, but you still need to make them BEFORE the engagement.

now with protoss:

you see terran army attacking you. you warp-in HT, and BOOM it's here instantly. you can storm right away if you upgraded energy and researched storm. you dont necessarily start production of ht before battle, or to defend drops itp. as long as you got power field there.

+ ghost is more expensive.


Please don't post again, ever.

He should not post here again because his facts are incorrect?


No, because he's an idiot.

User was temp banned for this post.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-26 03:12:21
February 26 2011 03:10 GMT
#656
On February 26 2011 12:05 Spekulatius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 11:58 Shooks wrote:
On February 26 2011 11:54 Whitewing wrote:
Protoss players will now go colossus 100% of the time in every matchup, never even considering high templar.

That upgrade was the only thing that made high templars viable, and let protoss have any sort of late game mobility. Nope, mobility is gone, high templars are slow as everything and have to sit in the field for a while before doing ANYTHING.


Yes, this is what blows my mind, if Blizzard were going to nerf HTs this bad, why wouldn't they at least make HTs faster or buff archons, HTs were already a hard unit to use since there hard to spread and against a good Terran they will just save EMPs for the warp ins.


Exchanging the Khaydarin Amulet for Archon immunity vs any disable (concussive/fungal) wouldn't lower the incentive to get HTs and we would see more archons.
But I'm just theorycrafting. I'm happy with the patch, it definitely did more good than bad.


No, it killed two tech paths for protoss.

My biggest complaint with the race was that colossus was used far to often: a lot of matches revolve entirely around RUSHING to get the colossus out, or massing up a big ball of colossus.

It was boring, it was dull.

Now we have no legitimate choice? High templar are now totally screwed, not only does it take forever to tech for them, but we need to spend gas NOW to have a storm 40 seconds from now, assuming we keep the slow ass high temp ALIVE, and they don't get EMP'd.

Now terrans are going to crack up when you go high templar and sacrifice hellions to burn them down, or cloak ghosts and take them out or something. Not only that, but they're still absurdly gas intensive, meaning on two base you can only afford zealots to go with them.

This is not a good change, at all, it just means toss will now only get colossus.

It's not like terrans couldn't stim, run out of storm with medivacs, and laugh as they heal through the damage without losing units.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
101toss
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
3232 Posts
February 26 2011 03:10 GMT
#657
On February 26 2011 12:05 Dommk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 12:02 Lipski wrote:
On February 26 2011 11:59 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On February 26 2011 11:55 Dommk wrote:
So energy regens at a rate of 0.5625 per ingame second, thus you have to wait 44.44sec before a Templar can Storm now

That is so dumb, 44.44seconds is an abusrd amount of time to have to wait in very late game, especially when there are ghosts, EMP is now even more powerful--if you manage to EMP the Toss's stocked up Templar, then he is fucked


Just make templars much earlier then you should.but still making Protoss have one skill unit is not fair for Terran and Zerg.

EMP needs to be an upgrade.


you are aware that ghost produce 40 game seonds, right? it's not like they appear on battlefield instantly, everywhere on power field, like ht. so now, ghosts ned 40 sec to emp if you got energy researched. ht needs about 44 seconds + warp-in time to storm. i say it's pretty damn close, considering ghosts are more expensive.

One ghost cancels out multiple Templar, it is not a 1 for 1 thing, EMP is an AOE ability, you can easily nab multiple Templar with a single EMP AND it does shield damage to any other Toss untis caught, so if Toss gets any Tempalrs EMP'd, the is fucked, he has to wait 44seconds for his next Storm, he isn't going to last that long if you were banking on Storm to aid you in the fight

Spread observers, keep vision, feedback, and split templar (avoid 1hotkey syndrome). If your templar get emp'd, make them into archons if you really need the support immediately.
Math doesn't kill champions and neither do wards
Apolo
Profile Joined May 2010
Portugal1259 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-26 03:17:53
February 26 2011 03:10 GMT
#658
On February 26 2011 11:59 Lipski wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 11:51 Dark-Storm wrote:
My biggest problem with the Amulet Removal is they dont bother thinking about the ghost upgrade to start with 75 energy so they can EMP our shit but we no longer have our best spell for HT on warp in


lol, do you really dont see a difference here?

let me clarify. i see protoss army attacking me. i produce ghost, BOOM, ghost is here 40 seconds later. it can instant EMP if you researched energy upgrade, but you still need to make them BEFORE the engagement.

now with protoss:

you see terran army attacking you. you warp-in HT, and BOOM it's here instantly. you can storm right away if you upgraded energy and researched storm. you dont necessarily start production of ht before battle, or to defend drops itp. as long as you got power field there.

+ ghost is more expensive.


No, i'm sorry but it's not like that.

You have a bigger tech path to get to high templars, and 2 upgrades, while ghosts is half than that, they attack, they have cloak, emp has more range, decloaks units, and not only it takes out shields, but also energy from Ht and sentries. If that's not enough, protoss also doesn't go around with warp prisms full of units that can kill your mineral line in 2 swipes or units that can snipe your CC or tech buildings in less than 20s. People need to stop doing stupid comparisons like that.

It seems like you as terran just want to drop wherever you want and the slow protoss army miles away has to turn back, or warp in units to their death. Because gate units die to MM easily, and never a protoss has as many gates to match how many units are in the drops, and even if he had, it would be so cost inneficient, the protoss sooner or later would lose because he was wasting so many units trying to defend drops.
101toss
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
3232 Posts
February 26 2011 03:11 GMT
#659
EMP doesn't kill units.

Stop the QQ.

User was warned for this post
Math doesn't kill champions and neither do wards
Reborn8u
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1761 Posts
February 26 2011 03:11 GMT
#660
Expect to see a lot more colossus, a lot fewer HT's and motherships. Fungal is getting nerfed and buffed at the same time, not too sure how that will work out. But it may be pretty good vs stalkers now, considering they made it so stalkers can't blink anymore during fungal, a patch or two ago.
I don't get the BC speed buff, unless they just want BC's to be used more..... but if that's the case, what about carriers, and archons? Not to mention the slew of upgrades that both terran and toss have that never see the light of day, obs or prism speed upgrade anyone? Bunker capacity upgrade? A little overpriced for what they do.
My suggestions, I think what they really need to do is consider a buff for immortals, like maybe a range upgrade at the robo support bay. So there is an alternative to colossus. Immortals just get countered by to many cheep units to be nearly as useful as colossus, after the early game. Shield upgrade is something else that has been bothering me. Although toss heals shields, the 200/200 price is bad. As I thought about it more I began to realize that having 3 things to upgrade on your units is a double edged sword. Partly because the effectiveness of armor upgrades is 1/2 as good for toss, as they are for zerg or terran. Because they don't count for 1/2 of a toss units health (the shields). Also, they should really consider giving stalkers +2 attack dmg per upgrade, because roaches get +2 per upgrade, hydras and terran infantry shoot twice as often. Meaning that stalkers get weaker by comparison, as upgrades accumulate through the duration of a long game. These kinds of things could compensate for taking the amulet out of the game. But let's face it a patch like this will only make protoss MORE dependent on colossus, which already are not difficult to hard counter with corruptors, vikings or voids, and colossus are over used when compared to HT, carriers, archons, immortals, and motherships.
As for terran, I think the stim build time nerf is the wrong idea. What terran really needs to just have stims effectiveness nerfed (the attack speed) coupled with a buff to some factory units. The fact that right now terrans are more likely to use tier 1 throughout the game, and use their factory as a floating scout is pretty telling of a bigger issue. I for one would like to see terrans insane harass units, such as the banshee and hellion nerfed slightly(at least how fast they kill workers) perhaps the blue flame and cloak upgrades made longer research time. Maybe even a -3 dmg nerf to marauders. Then, give tanks a 5 base dmg buff, hellions a 5 base dmg buff, and thors a larger anti-air splash. Or perhaps even putting vikings at the factory instead of starport. So a reactored factory could make vikings or hellions 2 at a time. Bio just seems to strong early and too weak late game. Factory builds just seem to take to long to get going, are not flexible enough, and don't have a good enough pay off because of the other races macro and mobility capabilities.
Zerg I'm puzzled about. It seems like zergs were suffering for months from cheese. But over nerfing of the other races early units (reapers + zlot build time, now stim and bunker rushes) coupled with the roach range buff has given zerg some of the best cheese and all in's around. I think the bunker build time may only add to cheesy play across all races vs T. I'm okay with the infestor changes. They were a little to weak health wise and fungal was a bit too hard to deal with. Having 3 infestors gave zerg the ability to just deny almost any attacks, while the only way to beat a zerg is to prevent them from going macro crazy. It was a bit unfair imo. Even with this 4 second nerf, the infestors still got 2 buffs, +dmg to armored and their health. So I don't think zergs really have too much to grieve about here. I'm still not sure I agree with the philosophy of "deal serious damage or do serious pressure to zerg in the first 12 minutes or the game becomes unwinnable" I just don't like how that works at all from a design standpoint. Especially when each patch seems to make it harder to do damage to zerg early, and makes them even stronger in early aggression or cheeses.
But let's be honest, with a year until heart of the swarm and another expansion promised after that, (legacy of the void) we have a long bumpy road of patching to a very deep and complex game. While I may not agree with all the changes, or the direction they appear to be pointing the game in, I am happy to see changes so frequently, and I am eager to see the games evolution in future patches.
:)
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