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Hey guys, this idea seems kind of obvious to me, in order to compete better with NASL they should do this. Run english restreams after matches at prime USA and EU times. Please GOM think about doing this!!!!!!
USA restream, 6pm PST, The previous night's GSL matches restreamed.
EU restream, primetime, The previous night's GSL matches restreamed
Basically just a single restream on normal hours for USA/EU fans. It would still encourage HQ/vod purchasing and bring in a lot more viewers! If people stay up to 1-4AM etc they will definitely watch at regular times.
Also it allows them to better compete with orgs like NASL, which will be restreaming the day after their matches.
So please Gomtv, come up with a USA timezone, and EU timezone restream to help grow! It makes business sense too.
What a re stream is: X hours after original broadcast, replay the broadcast so people can watch as if it was live. So they would tune in like normal, click "watch lq/hq" and it would open up the stream at normal hours.
Poll: GSL should restream after each match day at proper times for NA and EUYes, awesome idea would for sure tune in (629) 68% Nope, bad idea. (293) 32% 922 total votes Your vote: GSL should restream after each match day at proper times for NA and EU (Vote): Yes, awesome idea would for sure tune in
(Vote): Nope, bad idea.
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They do, by having VODs. 10 bucks man not bad at all.
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GOM uploads the vods really fast just watch those..
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Isn't this just directly equivalent to asking for free VODs?
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The HQ vods is also better quality than the HQ stream.
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It's called Vids On Demand.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50101 Posts
I thought the greatest thing about watching pro starcraft was fighting the urge of sleeping at 2AM to watch a starleague finals.
it shows passion and dedication.
School tomorrow?still watch starcraft at 2AM.
Catch a a flight in the morning?Still watch starcraft at 2AM.
+ Show Spoiler +FOR THE PASSION,
FOR THE GLORY,
FOR THE MEMORIES,
FOR THE MONEY,
YOU'RE A GAMER,
YOU LOVE STARCRAFT,
WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?
ALL THE SAME!!!
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VODs are cheap. I do like NASL.TV's way better but I don't want to have to watch both at once. GOM has its own way and you don't really have a good reason to change it.
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I never ever have a problem putting the $5, $10 or $20 towards the GSL, and I'm a poor college student. As they keep saying, it's really worth the money. Why would anyone pay for it, when you can get it for free (basically) at you leisure?
Well, well worth it. Don't have the $? Donate Plasma!
Too young to donate?
Ask Mom/Dad!
Mom/Dad say no?
GRANDMA!!!!?!?!?
It's extremely worth it, I promise you.
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How is this any different than VODs, except that you can't do it at your leisure?
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I don't think you guys understand
This doesn't replace VODs (on demand). It's a rebroadcast. A sing re-run at a set time.
The difference is that it lets them compete more directly with NA tournaments/events etc.
At a normal hour you have GSL rebroadcast, or NASL rebroadcast. It puts them in a better competitive spot.
Watching vods is a much different feel than a rebroadcast
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NASL could also do the same thing for their Asian viewers. 
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Do people not want the GSL to be profitable? Buy the VODs and "stream" it whenever you want.
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Not needed, they offer high qualitiy VODs. And if you are not willing to pay anything, i dont see why they should restream even though they already offer free SQ stream.
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It's a very very good idea. It's what major companies like the UFC do. I know I would prefer a restream over VOD's, it's so much nicer to let it just go instead of selecting each game and such.
VERY happy NASL is doing this for EU, I hope it becomes more standard.
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Like the other posters above, vods usually up by the time i get up, so np for me.
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On February 23 2011 15:47 Grummler wrote:
Not needed, they offer high qualitiy VODs. And if you are not willing to pay anything, i dont see why they should restream even though they already offer free SQ stream.
The free stream is on at 2AM
also they are beginning to have COMPETITION. A rebroadcast in North American timezone makes perfect business sense. People will still buy vods or HQ that purchase said things, but it lets you establish more market share and push out against NASL etc.
In their current position of only broadcasting at 3AM, how will that put them?
A single rebroadcast at normal times makes perfect sense. Listen, you can watch those matches for free already at any time, let's not be ignorant to the fact.
the rebroadcast will increase viewership and drive vod/hq sales. It makes a lot of business sense. If anything work with justin.tv or another streamer.
Look having people watching your product at a set normal hour, instead of handpicking vods is a much better plan. Also it allows them to basically crush out or at least compete against competitors on an even level.
NASL at 6pm.... or GSL vods.. You're gonna watch the NASL rebroadcast. If it's GSL rebroadcast vs NASL rebroadcast you are talking actual competition.
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what the difference between watching vod & watching your rebroadcast ? It makes sense if they ask u to pay for rebroadcast though
and I dont see why gsl need to compete with nasl. I would pick gsl anyday
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Imo bad idea, just buy the VODs and you aren't restricted by the restream time either, that's what I'll be doing for the NASL.
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On February 23 2011 15:50 dacthehork wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 15:47 Grummler wrote:
Not needed, they offer high qualitiy VODs. And if you are not willing to pay anything, i dont see why they should restream even though they already offer free SQ stream. The free stream is on at 2AM also they are beginning to have COMPETITION. A rebroadcast in North American timezone makes perfect business sense. People will still buy vods or HQ that purchase said things, but it lets you establish more market share and push out against NASL etc. In their current position of only broadcasting at 3AM, how will that put them? A single rebroadcast at normal times makes perfect sense.
No, it doesnt. People will either buy vods because they cant watch live, or they wont care. You guys are basically saying:
"If there would be a restream competing with NASL airtime, THEN people will by more VODs".
That makes no sense. GOM will NOT sell more VODs when they restream at NASL airtime. They might compete with NASL, but they wont earn anything from it.
Perfect business sense? Nope.
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Well tbh. I rather watch GSL live in Europe at 11-12AM than primetime. So i guess the only problem i see is with the US time zone, but hey, US content casting hours are always as fucked up as gsl casting hours. Atleast for the europeans. So yeah, buy Vods, support the scene.
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rebroadcasting at normal hours
Gets them a calendar link on Teamliquid.
Allows you to say "tune in to watch GSL". Instead of watching game 1 of a match/group, you can tell your friends to get the real experience and watch an actual consistent stream.
By airing at normal hours they increase total traffic. They miss out on a ton of traffic broadcasting at 3 AM, it makes sense to run a rebroadcast.
Also yes, you may pay 10 dollars for vods, there are a lot of people that look elsewhere or simply don't care enough to. As competition from NASL and other orgs materializes, it makes sense to do this.
Honestly what other matches / sc2 will be happening on any weekday in the SC2 scene? If gomtv capitalizes and starts doing this before NASL starts, it will be a good move. Not like there is a ton of money right now, but it does make sense in any longterm perspective.
VoDs/HQ would still be available to purchase.
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I guess GOM has not incentives for restream at all unless there are additional sponsors for restream.
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On February 23 2011 15:56 dacthehork wrote:
Also yes, you may pay 10 dollars for vods, there are a lot of people that look elsewhere or simply don't care enough to. As competition from NASL and other orgs materializes, it makes sense to do this.
This is the problem with the suggestion. Why make a restream solely for people who don't care enough for it to matter? The VODs are cheap and convenient. The only experience you're missing out on is that it's not live, which wouldn't be the case with your suggestion anyway.
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just buy the ticket man, it's worth every penny. i've already bought every season. plus the vods on high quality are 3x better than the hq stream that you get with the ticket and 10000x better than the free stream
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I think the premium VODs are enough but if I had one request it would be that I could login and click a "play all" option which would play the entire broadcast from start to finish. It would be convenient and preserve the feeling of a 'start to finish' show which you get from watching the livestream.
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The VODs are usually uploaded very fast, you can watch them at any time you want, in any order you want and in way better quality
Really there is no reason to restream it again, just get the VODs (they are spoiler-free too, it's awesome)
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the ignorance in this thread makes me sad
User was warned for this post
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As an Australian I can watch it live but I don't really and I get premium anyway. No way am I not gonna support GSL and just take take take from an awesome production like that. You gotta give back.
Just get the VODs, they won't restream for you they WANT you to get premium. It's not that much, seriously.
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On February 23 2011 16:14 Alejandrisha wrote:
just buy the ticket man, it's worth every penny. i've already bought every season. plus the vods on high quality are 3x better than the hq stream that you get with the ticket and 10000x better than the free stream
I buy the ticket, and still would buy the ticket but watch mainly the restreams. I have it so my main TV can be set up as a monitor/speakers, I would love to be able to work out, box, write, do anything else while watching without having to start up each and every game. It's a hassle and I am roughly 100% more likely to skip all the intro stuff (ie less viewer time, it matters to a company like GOM) when watching a VOD. But on a restream there is no option to do so.
It's a tried and very proven method, and I hope the mods let this stay open as we have seen TL forums get more accomplished then the GOM forums more often then not.
Also it's 14,000 times easier to get new fans to SC2. It's really fucking tough to tell people, "well check out this revolutionary thing you never thought was a sport but you got to stay up till 4am or pay some money on something you are not really that interested in yet." Now I can say "listen, ANY weekday starting at 7pm you can go to this site and check this out, I know it's new but just give it a shot, any weekday at this site for free."
I think having GSL more accessible to the US and EU audiences would help SCII by leaps and bounds.
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how about you people support it and spend $10 a month on it?
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So you are actually asking for a feature to play all the vods from a single play day one after the other automatically?
Sounds like a good idea to implement, should ask on gomtv forums.
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i dont get the use of this. Why do we need a restream when we can just click on the VODs? The only thing that would be nice if they changed is that the interviews will be uploaded sooner (sometimes I cant find them, sometimes they come up a few days after the match)
edit: i personally wouldnt care if there would be a stream, but GOM needs somehow the money to do that which ofc means higher Premium packages - and that would be bad for everyone. So better to just have it the way it is
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On February 23 2011 16:25 HaNdFisH wrote:
So you are actually asking for a feature to play all the vods from a single play day one after the other automatically?
Sounds like a good idea to implement, should ask on gomtv forums.
Not even that. Just restream the whole thing, you use the GOM player and everything. Like say they restream at 7pm my time, I know at 7pm every single day I can go to GOM and hit that live button and it'll be just like I am watching it at 4am, but I don't have to be insane to be up at 7pm.
On February 23 2011 16:25 Markus138 wrote:
i dont get the use of this. Why do we need a restream when we can just click on the VODs? The only thing that would be nice if they changed is that the interviews will be uploaded sooner (sometimes I cant find them, sometimes they come up a few days after the match)
Ease of use. I like clicking "go live" and nothing else instead of 20 seconds of stupid stuff in between each game and vod buffering. Then I always skip the intro and end up going to far trying to find the game start and have to click back and forth to find it.
Also it would open up the doors of a top level esports production that is really in a league of it's own for SC2 (nothing against MLG or ESL, GOM does SCII spot on). See my post above, I really think it would help both SCII and GOM doing so.
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Depends what the cost of restreaming is for them as a business. Without knowing their costs and income, there's no way to say it's obviously better or worse. Everything else is just supposition and guessing.
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Personally I think the "just pay the 10 bucks for VODs" attitude is doomed to failure when there is competition coming up. Most of the Starcraft fans arent the ones who can afford to pay 5-10$ at every corner, so if everyone of these competitions is as restrictive as GOM with the VODs they will split the fanbase into one part which watches GOM and another which watches NASL. That is counterproductive to the whole "lets get eSports to grow big with Starcraft 2" motto which everyone writes on their banner.
So IMO the whole funding for leagues and such HAS TO switch to commercial / sponsor based funding instead of viewer payment based. GOM needs to realize this IMO or they will lose out on the international market.
A restream might also make sense technologically since that will take some part of the traffic and shift it to later times and thus it might help reducing the lag of the stream.
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vods are enough and not expensive
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On February 23 2011 16:27 Subversive wrote:
Depends what the cost of restreaming is for them as a business. Without knowing their costs and income, there's no way to say it's obviously better or worse. Everything else is just supposition and guessing.
If they don't get viewers, the bandwidth is minimal. If they do, then cool shit it worked. They don't have to get the studio going or anything, it's just streaming a video which is silly easy for a company like GOM.
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LoL so GSL is using all the ticket money to upgrade their infrastructure, increase their vod and stream quality and pay for bandwidth costs as well as hiring MORE english casters and people still complain that they cant get a free stream thats convenient for them.
Just pay the ticket money or stay up. OR you can watch NASL or ESL or any of the countless 100 dollar weekly cups.
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On February 23 2011 16:26 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Not even that. Just restream the whole thing, you use the GOM player and everything. Like say they restream at 7pm my time, I know at 7pm every single day I can go to GOM and hit that live button and it'll be just like I am watching it at 4am, but I don't have to be insane to be up at 7pm.
Oh I see, initially I would have said just watch the VOD's, but that isn't quite the same. Personally I watch the GSL stream (or other live streams) while discussing the games with friends on either msn/vent. While you would lose the "live" factor, you could still have the video synced up so that sort of interaction can still happen, which is a real pain with VOD's.
I can't imagine it would be too hard on GSL's infrastructure either, would be in a way splitting their load so it should possibly improve stream reliability.
edit* Voted yes, but I wouldn't tune in as the current GSL time is ideal for Australia
Wouldn't mind some restreams of like say NASL at good times for Australia though.
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Seriously, that is what the VODs are for. You can watch "live", so to speak, at any point in time you wish to do so. 
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I watch a ton of the VODs with the premium package, and I think it's really a great deal.
(~40 sets in the group phase with ~5 sets/8 groups) + (2.5 sets*8 for the Ro16) + (2.5 sets*4 for Ro8) + (~4 sets*2 for Ro4) + (~5 sets for the finals)
Adds up to about 85 sets for $10. At an average of ~12 minutes/each, that's about 1000 minutes of matches, roughly 18 hours worth. And that's just for Code S, you also get Code A for free, with about as many sets.
Seriously, there's no other entertainment like this for the price. Each season, I spend about a nickel per hour watching the GSL.
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United States2493 Posts
A restream WOULD eventually get more people into SC2. I've bought the ticket and never watched a VOD due to the horrible feeling of skipping around it does. If you watch a restream, there is no way to skip and GOM can even add more adverts to the restream to pay for it.
For example, my friend is in the military ROTC and he has to get of for PT in the morning at 5ish and can't watch the actual live stream. If it gets rebroadcast around prime-time in the states, he would be able to get a bite to eat and get the same excitement of a smooth whole cast, even with the breaks where GOM could easily add in a ton of advertisements.
After I tell most people about Starcraft 2, they are intrigued, but not intrigued enough to stay up til 3 a.m. to sample a full broadcast or to just blindly throw 10 dollars at it. I don't see why so many people are against having more people watch Starcraft 2 and get the exposure out there for such a great game.
Most people who are arguing against a restream act like people are not going to buy the ticket for the VODs or that everyone is way too lazy to just click each VOD. The case being made here is wider E sports recognition at little cost to put up a full broadcast where people still have the chance to see what Starcraft 2 played at the highest level looks like.
NASL is actually doing the restream for Europe and will be credited more in helping out with E-sports globally by doing so. I am actually looking forward to all the tournaments in the west, and I see a real breakthrough happening this year with E-sports. Day 9, Incontrol and a ton of other people who organize and help popularize tournaments KNOW this is the year of Starcraft 2.
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On February 23 2011 16:38 Schnake wrote:Seriously, that is what the VODs are for. You can watch "live", so to speak, at any point in time you wish to do so.
Not even remotely close for me personally as a total GSL fan. Opening up each and every game just breaks the flow so much for me. With a restream I can open my GOM player and do nothing else. Literally, nothing. That feels MUCH more live to me.
This really is for me (and I believe the OP) more about making the GSL feel truly as live as can be in America, and providing a presentation that VOD's never ever will for me. This will leak back a bit into the free stream as more people will watch it because it's at a sane time, but that's again a good thing.
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On February 23 2011 16:26 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Ease of use. I like clicking "go live" and nothing else instead of 20 seconds of stupid stuff in between each game and vod buffering. Then I always skip the intro and end up going to far trying to find the game start and have to click back and forth to find it.
Also it would open up the doors of a top level esports production that is really in a league of it's own for SC2 (nothing against MLG or ESL, GOM does SCII spot on). See my post above, I really think it would help both SCII and GOM doing so.
I agree that it would be nice to just press one button and then watch the full gsl without loading each individual VOD. But I don't know if this has to be a fixed restream or if it would be possible as an alternative mode to watch the VODs.
Advantage of the second version would be that you don't have to watch the GSL at a specific time every day.
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Pay the 10 dollars...
The HQ VODs are actually way better than the HQ streaming quality, I ALMOST prefer to watch it via VODs, but the live feel just really does it for me.
As for a re-stream, if its not live, why would you want to watch it in streaming quality.
I know you just want to hit one button, but that is just sheer laziness.
I'm pretty sure ANYONE can afford 10 dollars for a season ticket, and this season you get more content than ever.
It just doesn't make any sense to re-stream when you have such an easy, cheap, and viable option.
Edit: I do however agree that being able to watch a day's events straight through in 1 shot sounds like a good option
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From a business standpoint, bad idea.
Voted No. It's a chepa price to pay at like what, 20 cents a day over the course of a year, to pay for HD/VOD access.
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On February 23 2011 16:38 Gospadin wrote:
Seriously, there's no other entertainment like this for the price. Each season, I spend about a nickel per hour watching the GSL.
And you never ever were disappointed by a boring game which "wasted" your time?
That is one of the issues I have with "asking us" to pay for VODs ... they can not promise that the things they deliver will be worth watching / entertaining. With a movie channel you know what a movie is going to be about from its description and thus you can say if you want to watch it or not, but that doesnt exist for a game of Starcraft. Maybe you are like "oh if the Terran goes mech and turtles I dont want to watch it" ... what do you think when the Terran does exactly that?
Personally I think a broadcaster needs to be encouraged to "deliver a good service" and if people have to give them money for the privilege of watching before they even know what is going to be playing is the wrong way. The company needs to be funded purely by numbers of viewers, because that way they are interested in making that number grow.
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United States2493 Posts
On February 23 2011 16:46 sh4w wrote:
Pay the 10 dollars...
The HQ VODs are actually way better than the HQ streaming quality, I ALMOST prefer to watch it via VODs, but the live feel just really does it for me.
As for a re-stream, if its not live, why would you want to watch it in streaming quality.
I know you just want to hit one button, but that is just sheer laziness.
I'm pretty sure ANYONE can afford 10 dollars for a season ticket, and this season you get more content than ever.
It just doesn't make any sense to re-stream when you have such an easy, cheap, and viable option.
I don't understand why no one is getting the point that this restream will allow Esports to grow, my friends want to watch it without committing 10 bucks for the first time they watch it and 3 to 4 a.m. isn't feasable to them.
Start thinking about the restream in general terms, and not as someone who watches GSL everynight or as someone who wants to see Esports grow. This isn't about the money, it is about the exposure!
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I agree that it makes sense to re-stream at a better time for NA or europe, otherwise it's just being biased to Korea/china, a place where the market is almost certainly HIGHER than in the US.. it's pretty unfair.
For that reason, if one was to keep the current method of just showing only 1 stream, it would make most sense for them to have the matches streamed at a north american time, so that it strains the korean/chinese/SEA viewers to buy the tickets instead of the smaller US market. The obvious issue with this though is that the stream would need to be delayed, and there would be spoilers and such.
Regarding the argument about making money... if they want to make money, why offer a free stream at all? There is a HUGE difference between VODs and 1 re-stream a day, and I can't believe that ANYONE would even compare the two.
With regards to time, when would it be though? prime time for central (north) america, prime time for central europe, or prime time for the middle-ground between them both? (somewhere in the Atlantic ocean/greenland)
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yeh I would actually buy it if it was restreamed in EU like 5/6 GMT or CET time...
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some of us don't want to pay $10 every month to see vods, i don't see how this is unreasonable at all and is imo a good idea
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On February 23 2011 16:49 Demonace34 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 16:46 sh4w wrote:
Pay the 10 dollars...
The HQ VODs are actually way better than the HQ streaming quality, I ALMOST prefer to watch it via VODs, but the live feel just really does it for me.
As for a re-stream, if its not live, why would you want to watch it in streaming quality.
I know you just want to hit one button, but that is just sheer laziness.
I'm pretty sure ANYONE can afford 10 dollars for a season ticket, and this season you get more content than ever.
It just doesn't make any sense to re-stream when you have such an easy, cheap, and viable option. I don't understand why no one is getting the point that this restream will allow Esports to grow, my friends want to watch it without committing 10 bucks for the first time they watch it and 3 to 4 a.m. isn't feasable to them. Start thinking about the restream in general terms, and not as someone who watches GSL everynight or as someone who wants to see Esports grow. This isn't about the money, it is about the exposure!
This is 100% about the money. They already have problems with the live stream and premium service. It would cost too much to drop the vods and hire/pay more employees to do the re-streaming work in the middle of night.
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I myself prefer VODs, it's rewindable and can watch at own pacing (only issue is time is displayed but sometimes I don't notice that when the game is good) but that's not really the issue here.
If they go through with what you suggest, then come around NASL season, people will have to choose to watch either since their stream time will overlap since prime time is what your suggesting and that is when NASL wants to stream too.
Some people can sorta follow both simultaneously but one can't focus on one without tuning out the other.
eSports industry is still in its infacy, we don't need tournament conflicts to challenge viewer base. Even NASL is working with MLG to not coincide dates.
Besides, a re-stream will never reproduce the effect of LIVE 100% cause the result has happened anyways. Everyone that has stayed up late will still stay up late to catch it TRUE LIVE.
(P.S. A auto hider for timer would be a neat feature wouldn't it.)
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United States2493 Posts
On February 23 2011 16:53 Grettin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 16:49 Demonace34 wrote:On February 23 2011 16:46 sh4w wrote:
Pay the 10 dollars...
The HQ VODs are actually way better than the HQ streaming quality, I ALMOST prefer to watch it via VODs, but the live feel just really does it for me.
As for a re-stream, if its not live, why would you want to watch it in streaming quality.
I know you just want to hit one button, but that is just sheer laziness.
I'm pretty sure ANYONE can afford 10 dollars for a season ticket, and this season you get more content than ever.
It just doesn't make any sense to re-stream when you have such an easy, cheap, and viable option. I don't understand why no one is getting the point that this restream will allow Esports to grow, my friends want to watch it without committing 10 bucks for the first time they watch it and 3 to 4 a.m. isn't feasable to them. Start thinking about the restream in general terms, and not as someone who watches GSL everynight or as someone who wants to see Esports grow. This isn't about the money, it is about the exposure! This is 100% about the money. They already have problems with the live stream and premium service. It would cost too much to drop the vods and hire/pay more employees to do the re-streaming work in the middle of night for re-streaming.
Like I said before, the more exposure eventually in time pays off to more money, especially now that NASL is going to be on and have a wider audience. They will still get the hardcore people of Esports to give money for the VODs and then on top of that get exposure on that night that my friends are over having a good time and I put on the restream. My friends aren't going to stay up til 3 or 4 a.m. with me to watch a live stream because they value their sleep for work the next day. They don't want to blindly spend 10 bucks on a game that I think they would enjoy.
If they need to pay for it, do it with ads and product placement in the normal 5 minute breaks that the normal live coverage always has of just the studio. I'm sure companies and businesses that have a market in the young nerds of SC2 will put their dollars into advertisements in that slot of time.
About more people needed to work to make the restream happen, how hard is it to actually replay a virtually unedited cast of SC2. All the work was done the day before by the production crew, someone needs to be able to upload it and press play? Maybe I don't know anything about a restream, but I am doubting there is much production needed to play a replay of the day before.
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I don't see how vods are a problem, when I was sick with strep during gsl s4 it was the only time I had to watch vods in the early morning. I couldn't catch live so of course I went to watching the VOD's. I'd get up around 7-8 am and the games and watch soon after. The games wouldn't even finish sometimes till like 6:30am and either all the vods or the majority of them would be uploaded already in great quality an hour later, and by the time you watch through the vods the later matches are uploaded. You can hide the time bar and try to avoid looking at it completely to limit the chances of being spoiled on what kind of game you'll see. Gomtv has an amazing platform for watching vods, I have never had a problem with the vods. Only live matches have had technical issues where the stream would overflow or servers would crash.
The only way I can see this being beneficial is if Gomtv had a chatroom attached to the live rebroadcast, being able to talk to others about the game while it's going on would be something a VOD cannot reproduce.
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If they restream at a point where I can always watch it live (prime time) it will be very unlikely for me to buy a season pass. I like supporting GOM, but if I can watch all the matches anyway, I might not be that strong of a supporter.
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I doubt they'd do this. They rather tempt you into giving them money for vods instead of trying to promote the SC2 scene to even more people.
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I'd think that would drop the amount of subscribers quite significantly when you can just watch them live for free. Now you either sleep/work/got to school or watch them, or you buy the package and watch them when you can.
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I have to agree with many posters in the thread and go with VOD is the better solution. If you get a restream here at prime time that would be problematic for those that have problems watching VODs at their own convenience if many people are watching. I don't see that as a solution. GOM player is really smooth and buffers really well. MV are shown on the channels typically when GSL is offline.
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VODs VODs VODs.
It's only 10 bucks. There's the 20 bucks no-ad stream coming out but... who would want to watch the GSL with no VODs?
I'm still waiting for my 2011 Titty Sambo.
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I clicked yes because i think its a great idea, but this stream shouldnt be free. I watch the vods now but if i could click a button and watchs the whole restream at one go i would.
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EDIT: Nevermind, already mentioned.
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Just get a premium ticket and watch the VODs. They're there for a reason.
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They're not a charity. There's still a perceived gap between GSL and NASL in skill level, so they shouldn't be overreacting to a new league with a bad business decision. They're still the best league and have the very best players. We don't know what NASL is yet. Making your product free after it's been put on air is most likely horrible. I'd bet a huge percentage of their business is from Westerners who watch these VODs during the time you're suggesting they broadcast free. Also they already put out 1 free game per day.
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The free stream, mr OP, is just that. Free. You don't pay anything. You have no grounds for complaining about anything to do with it when you get it free.
Now, if what you're suggesting is a restream at convenient hours for those who buy the premium ticket, that I will get behind and support.
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On February 23 2011 17:23 Spicy Pepper wrote:
They're not a charity. There's still a perceived gap between GSL and NASL in skill level, so they shouldn't be overreacting to a new league with a bad business decision. They're still the best league and have the very best players. We don't know what NASL is yet. Making your product free after it's been put on air is most likely horrible. I'd bet a huge percentage of their business is from Westerners who watch these VODs during the time you're suggesting they broadcast free. Also they already put out 1 free game per day.
UFC 72 would like to argue that with you. Note I bring up UFC because it is the same target demographic, and the thing that made UFC 72 such a disaster is it was only played at the live time which was 3pm EST, not 10PM EST so most NA American fans missed it due to having to do crazy stuff like work a normal job. Thus the UFC has never ever made that mistake again and it's all highly relevant to a company like GOM.
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I have no idea how Vods dont fill this roll already? Oh wait, the free stream is free isnt it...
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United States2493 Posts
On February 23 2011 17:23 Spicy Pepper wrote:
They're not a charity. There's still a perceived gap between GSL and NASL in skill level, so they shouldn't be overreacting to a new league with a bad business decision. They're still the best league and have the very best players. We don't know what NASL is yet. Making your product free after it's been put on air is most likely horrible. I'd bet a huge percentage of their business is from Westerners who watch these VODs during the time you're suggesting they broadcast free. Also they already put out 1 free game per day.
Obviously, we know that they aren't giving away anything for free minus the horrible SQ live. They could actually use sponsors and adverts during the restream to get some cash out of it.
I'd bet that people could actually sit down with their non-SC2 friends and be able to show them a full restream if it was during prime-time in the states. Exposure + More advertisements + western companies buying time for adverts on the restream should easily come back to them via subscriptions.
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On February 23 2011 17:32 SpectralFremen wrote:
I have no idea how Vods dont fill this roll already? Oh wait, the free stream is free isnt it...
Do people read OP's or just title's these days. Check out the OP and the responses please, it's not about that.
Edit:
Also, NEWSFLASH! Sponsors don't really care how many subscribers you have, companies like Intel (ie: GSL sponsor) only care how many people see their logo and how often they stay (ie: audience retention).
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no these idiots think I actually am saying this because I want free VODs or something instead of wider exposure for Gomtv and more success for GSL.
Yes you guys, I made this thread so I can get "free vods" that anyone can get a hold of with 20 seconds n google. Gomtv already kind of made their case they want nothing to do with mainstream foreign SC when they went with pay for vods. No one here probably knows that prior to GSL it was all free, but whatever.
Yeah guys making GSL pay per view is the greatest thing ever in terms of growing SC2 and growing GOMTV for a foreign audience.
What a surprise when NASL and upcoming MLG slowly take over and out edge a pay to view league broadcasting only at 3 am
Genius, why does teamliquid remain a free site instead of charging 10 dollars to view it per month? It's called relevance
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EU Time is already perfect. I am at work and have the gomplayer in the background and watching GSL while working.
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United States2493 Posts
On February 23 2011 17:32 SpectralFremen wrote:
I have no idea how Vods dont fill this roll already? Oh wait, the free stream is free isnt it...
Why post this junk? People who aren't able to stay up til 3 or 4 in the morning don't have this luxury of trying out of free stream. So they either have to bite the bullet and buy something for 10 bucks that they don't know if they will like, or not watch it at all and miss out on the casting archon that is Tastosis and not subscribe for VODs or the "HQ Restream" they could get with it.
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On February 23 2011 17:35 papaz wrote:
EU Time is already perfect. I am at work and have the gomplayer in the background and watching GSL while working.
Probably not something most Europeans can do. The only people that the time is really ideal for are those in the GMT+8 through to +12 timezones.
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I never quite made the plunge to buy a pass because of how I'm just a frugal college student.
Taking that into consideration, NASL has made me say "why the hell would I want to pay for GSl now!? Especially if I didn't before!?"
My decision to buy will likely always be "no," but if they caught me with some epicness several streams in a row then who knows.
Overall, I say "yes," because it seems necessary to compete with NASL. I'm unsure of if it's the "good business decision" in the shortrun, but I think they have to show an effort like this if they want to stay out there in the West, so it will end up being the "good business decision" in the long term.
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i think it would be a great idea for there to be a single restream. it is not like a Video On Demand because it is not On Demand, it is at a single other time. It would be more like when they show replays of the most recent sports games on local channels, which happens all the time (at least for the Red Wings and the Tigers).
I am still going to watch the GSL tonight, but considering I have 2 exams tomorrow it would be nice if i didn't have to ruin my future for the sake of the tournament
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On February 23 2011 17:24 Dhalphir wrote:
The free stream, mr OP, is just that. Free. You don't pay anything. You have no grounds for complaining about anything to do with it when you get it free.
Now, if what you're suggesting is a restream at convenient hours for those who buy the premium ticket, that I will get behind and support.
where was I complaining? Also holy crap your quote has nothing to do with the topic
I simply point out that doing a re-broadcast at appropriate hours of their stream might be a good idea and posted a poll
How is that complaining about a free stream? Also are you really ridiculous, SC2 is fucking NICHE, making it pay per view just re-affirms that. You know they didnt even plan a free stream. Also it's widely available on restreams and download in HQ around the internet.
I don't see your point in the least, it had everything to do with widening their audience and nothing to do with my personal regards. Trust me I can watch any match from GSL I wan to at HQ.
It's called "global starcraft league", and the only people that watch it are a niche of a niche.
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On February 23 2011 17:38 Dhalphir wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 17:35 papaz wrote:
EU Time is already perfect. I am at work and have the gomplayer in the background and watching GSL while working.
Probably not something most Europeans can do. The only people that the time is really ideal for are those in the GMT+8 through to +12 timezones.
I agree with the time already being pretty much perfect. Only problem is that GOM doesn't have any app for mobile viewers. Then it would be p.e.r.f.e.c.t. Though, i can understand why people disagree with the broadcasting times in Europe. Due work and school, most can't tune in.
But i wouldn't watch the re-stream at prime time or after work. Most likely because i would have something else to watch.
Also, NEWSFLASH! Sponsors don't really care how many subscribers you have, companies like Intel (ie: GSL sponsor) only care how many people see their logo and how often they stay (ie: audience retention).
But how many sponsors would be happy to hear that they would need to sponsor more money because of multiple streams.
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No way I realized I'm totally wrong.
Broadcasting something at 3 AM is genius, anyone that doesn't watch that live should obviously have to pay to wtach glorious vods of starcraft 2. Genius long term business plan, especially with rising competition.
I just wish all my favorite TV shows broadcast only at 4 AM and charged to watch on Hulu.
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On February 23 2011 17:42 GeneralSnoop wrote:i think it would be a great idea for there to be a single restream. it is not like a Video On Demand because it is not On Demand, it is at a single other time. It would be more like when they show replays of the most recent sports games on local channels, which happens all the time (at least for the Red Wings and the Tigers). I am still going to watch the GSL tonight, but considering I have 2 exams tomorrow it would be nice if i didn't have to ruin my future for the sake of the tournament
so in your situation the VODs would be perfect and all you'd get out of the restream is not having to pay.
@OP: I agree with you that from a business perspective, a free restream may well be a good idea for GOM to increase their viewership. But people need to stop pretending on any sort of individual level that they want this for any other reason than its a free restream so they don't have to pay for VODs. There's no other benefit to an individual person from a free restream.
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On February 23 2011 17:46 Grettin wrote:
But how many sponsors would be happy to hear that they would need to sponsor more money because of multiple streams.
For companies like Intel and Sony Ericsson, money is not the issue, getting as many eyes as possible on their logo and products is the only issue really.
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On February 23 2011 17:38 Demonace34 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 17:32 SpectralFremen wrote:
I have no idea how Vods dont fill this roll already? Oh wait, the free stream is free isnt it... Why post this junk? People who aren't able to stay up til 3 or 4 in the morning don't have this luxury of trying out of free stream. So they either have to bite the bullet and buy something for 10 bucks that they don't know if they will like, or not watch it at all and miss out on the casting archon that is Tastosis and not subscribe for VODs or the "HQ Restream" they could get with it.
But you do have the luxury of trying it out. GOM makes the first VOD of each set freely available to anyone who wants to get a taste of the GSL and decide whether to purchase a ticket. They already do an excellent job of letting people in all timezones get a feel for what the GSL is all about.
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United States2493 Posts
On February 23 2011 17:50 Dhalphir wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 17:42 GeneralSnoop wrote:i think it would be a great idea for there to be a single restream. it is not like a Video On Demand because it is not On Demand, it is at a single other time. It would be more like when they show replays of the most recent sports games on local channels, which happens all the time (at least for the Red Wings and the Tigers). I am still going to watch the GSL tonight, but considering I have 2 exams tomorrow it would be nice if i didn't have to ruin my future for the sake of the tournament so in your situation the VODs would be perfect and all you'd get out of the restream is not having to pay. @OP: I agree with you that from a business perspective, a free restream may well be a good idea for GOM to increase their viewership. But people need to stop pretending on any sort of individual level that they want this for any other reason than its a free restream so they don't have to pay for VODs. There's no other benefit to an individual person from a free restream.
Some people actually aren't always out for themselves. I want to see Esports grow, and a restream would get more gamers attention in the west. Honestly, it isn't hard to fall for Tasteless and Artosis amazing commentary only after a couple of viewings.
Day9 is an individual, but guess what, he does it for the community because he LOVES Esports. He loves this game and the people who make Starcraft II possible.
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On February 23 2011 17:50 Dhalphir wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 17:42 GeneralSnoop wrote:i think it would be a great idea for there to be a single restream. it is not like a Video On Demand because it is not On Demand, it is at a single other time. It would be more like when they show replays of the most recent sports games on local channels, which happens all the time (at least for the Red Wings and the Tigers). I am still going to watch the GSL tonight, but considering I have 2 exams tomorrow it would be nice if i didn't have to ruin my future for the sake of the tournament ... But people need to stop pretending on any sort of individual level that they want this for any other reason than its a free restream so they don't have to pay for VODs. There's no other benefit to an individual person from a free restream.
Are you serious? My first reaction was "This is a good idea for more people to watch an official stream of the best SC2 esport program AND Gomtv gets more viewer numbers for their sponsors" If people really wanted FREE Vods they can get it with little to no effort with a google search, just like their mp3's and porn, not argue for a restream.
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On February 23 2011 17:55 Jumbled wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 17:38 Demonace34 wrote:On February 23 2011 17:32 SpectralFremen wrote:
I have no idea how Vods dont fill this roll already? Oh wait, the free stream is free isnt it... Why post this junk? People who aren't able to stay up til 3 or 4 in the morning don't have this luxury of trying out of free stream. So they either have to bite the bullet and buy something for 10 bucks that they don't know if they will like, or not watch it at all and miss out on the casting archon that is Tastosis and not subscribe for VODs or the "HQ Restream" they could get with it. But you do have the luxury of trying it out. GOM makes the first VOD of each set freely available to anyone who wants to get a taste of the GSL and decide whether to purchase a ticket. They already do an excellent job of letting people in all timezones get a feel for what the GSL is all about.
I cant speak for anyone else but the vods just lack something
telling someone to tune in and watch, versus watching a single game is a bit different. I can't explain it but there is a definite magic missing with watching the first set of a series or vods in general versus a singular broadcast.
Maybe some people felt it during the "clash of the titans" match.
Also it lets them " directly compete" against basically every tournament/event in NA/EU, which alone is worth it.
It seems like a smart move to me.
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Hey, I used to wake up at 6 AM when the matches started earlier and I had little complain about it, but I put up with it.
It's the passion for SC2 gosuness that makes people wake-up/stay-up in awkward hours. It's also quite often that I get to stay up all night in a coffee marathon, watching Live On 3, or/and Day[J] Daily or/and State of The Game.
Whenever I can't watch them live, I simply stay the fuck out of TL.net, so that I don't get spoiled. I watch the VODs first, then hop in here to read all the comments.
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United States2493 Posts
On February 23 2011 17:55 Jumbled wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 17:38 Demonace34 wrote:On February 23 2011 17:32 SpectralFremen wrote:
I have no idea how Vods dont fill this roll already? Oh wait, the free stream is free isnt it... Why post this junk? People who aren't able to stay up til 3 or 4 in the morning don't have this luxury of trying out of free stream. So they either have to bite the bullet and buy something for 10 bucks that they don't know if they will like, or not watch it at all and miss out on the casting archon that is Tastosis and not subscribe for VODs or the "HQ Restream" they could get with it. But you do have the luxury of trying it out. GOM makes the first VOD of each set freely available to anyone who wants to get a taste of the GSL and decide whether to purchase a ticket. They already do an excellent job of letting people in all timezones get a feel for what the GSL is all about.
Watching a 1 game VOD isn't the same, I think anyone who has tried to watch 1 VOD at a time, realizes that it doesn't give you the feeling like 1 whole set would give you. Just like if you watched the beginning of a movie, got the character details but then it gets cut off after the first big battle. That is more frustrating than it is encouraging to buy the 10 dollar ticket.
You want to get people hooked? All you have to do is the restream, then not do a restream of the finals and make it 5 bucks to watch the finals. Maybe even say 15 bucks to watch the finals and buy the next season ticket. BOOM. Deal done, and people are hooked.
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The production values that Gom is putting in are easily worth the cost of the ticket. Would they reap more by offering more streams at different hours and with an increased audience, attract more money in sponsorship than they lose in ticket sales? Unclear. GOM is probably looking at all the ways of marketing their product and the costs/risks and rewards involved in each scenario. It's not a bad idea what you're suggesting, but it might be something they can afford to do in the future, not right now. Also, there's no guarantee of a massive surge in viewers. I think the people who are even vaguely interested in sc2 are already watching.
GSL doesn't have serious competition for me atm. It's got the best players, great casters and a genuine effort to get better with every series.
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I don't see the point of rebroadcasting at a later time. I'd rather watch the vods and be able to skip through breaks and boring/low level games. Like that one PvT yesterday. Why the fuck would I want to watch through all that if I didn't have to? Just to pretend that it's live? That just sounds really stupid to me.
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On February 23 2011 18:01 Subversive wrote:
The production values that Gom is putting in are easily worth the cost of the ticket.
Agreed, and I would still buy said ticket even with restreams. The SQ to HQ stream difference is pretty major.
Would they reap more by offering more streams at different hours and with an increased audience, attract more money in sponsorship than they lose in ticket sales? Unclear. GOM is probably looking at all the ways of marketing their product and the costs/risks and rewards involved in each scenario. It's not a bad idea what you're suggesting, but it might be something they can afford to do in the future, not right now. Also, there's no guarantee of a massive surge in viewers. I think the people who are even vaguely interested in sc2 are already watching.
The Youtube community says you are wrong.
Jinro vs. MC GSL III Semi Finals VOD from December: 193,000 views.
2 Random Psy Starcraft Videos that are 2 weeks old each (just so ppl could not bitch about me using HDH as an example): 180,000 views.
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its exactly the same as watching a footy game on sky+ that you have recorded and how people dont like to know the result and will watch all the way through it... People who cant watch it live want to watch the HOLE show as if it was live without any sort of way of knowing the results beforehand just so they can be like wow and see somethign special happen without possibily mising it.
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On February 23 2011 18:11 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 18:01 Subversive wrote:
The production values that Gom is putting in are easily worth the cost of the ticket. Agreed, and I would still buy said ticket even with restreams. The SQ to HQ stream difference is pretty major. Show nested quote +Would they reap more by offering more streams at different hours and with an increased audience, attract more money in sponsorship than they lose in ticket sales? Unclear. GOM is probably looking at all the ways of marketing their product and the costs/risks and rewards involved in each scenario. It's not a bad idea what you're suggesting, but it might be something they can afford to do in the future, not right now. Also, there's no guarantee of a massive surge in viewers. I think the people who are even vaguely interested in sc2 are already watching. The Youtube community says you are wrong. Jinro vs. MC GSL III Semi Finals VOD from December: 193,000 views. 2 Random Psy Starcraft Videos that are 2 weeks old each (just so ppl could not bitch about me using HDH as an example): 180,000 views.
Well what we still don't know is what their current income is and plans for the future. They don't even need a restream at that, just make vods free. But it's their decision *shrugs* so unless they're incompetent I guess they feel at the moment, pay to view is the way to go.
The same argument could be made for anything that's pay per view. I'd watch cable if I didn't have to pay for it. They could put ads in, have sponsors, wouldn't bother me.
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GSL is live here at 4:00 AM and really screws my life up 
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On February 23 2011 18:20 jester- wrote:GSL is live here at 4:00 AM and really screws my life up
I like watching things live too, and as it's on at 5-8pm here in Aus, I can. But sometimes I go out :p. In those cases, I just watch the vods.
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When GOM can fully implement ads for international viewers I'd be all for the idea because at least then it would sort of start to pay for itself. Until then I don't think it's a very good business decision. Sure, the passion buyers will still continue to support them, but I have no doubt that those who buy premium simply because the live is on at odd hours for them would drop their subscriptions. VODs are super cheap anyway.
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Canada11331 Posts
I definitely agree with the OP. As a person just barely paying the bills, I'm not shelling out money for a lot of things including the VOD's. So I watch the stream that start 2am in the morning- sometimes. Because now that I'm out of uni and trying to work, it messes with my sleep schedule. But that's really besides the point.
The main thing is- nobody but hardcore SC players are going to watch SC at 2-5am in the morning. Nobody, but hardcore SC players with money are going to pay for the vods. That cuts out most SC players, nevermind most people that might want to stumble into the proleague scene to see what it's about. A restream at Euro and NAm times would help increase the viewership base. It may never move beyond a niche audience, but it can expand its scope.
I can however, see that GOMtv would be hesitant to do such thing. Theoretically, there could be long term benefits, but that's in theory. It could be quite possible that it never pays for itself- unless they can find international companies that want to advertise in those breaks.
However, for some reason, GOMtv classic vods were all free, SC2 vods are not all free...
But the main point stands to all those saying- just buy the vods if you don't like the time. Or if you don't have the money, watch it live. Yes, and yes- but you're just preaching to the choir. The op's point was to expand beyond the choir.
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if they restream at a good time, then theres no reason left for eu/usa to pay for the on demand service.
so they wont do it.
(i cant see gom being completely sponsored anytime soon, in that case ofc it would be the logical option (to let everybody watch the advertisments on stream). as long as nerd say "i pay for every bit of content" theres no reason for getting paid by advertisments)
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I think the only reason why gomtv.net would restream at a different time would be to ease the load on their servers. When people are watching at different times the peak load on the servers is going to be less.
However, the live stream is the way to get the games as early as possible, you're not going to be spoilered and you can watch the games as they happen. A restream gives you none of that.
I would like, however, for gomtv to implement a continous playing mode for the vods. Just let all the vods play one after the other, without having to get up and click on the set buttons. That would recreate the live experience as close as possible with minimum effort.
TLDR: Restream not necessary, enable vods to play continously.
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It doesnt matter when tasteless keeps getting iterrupted by things that i have to really put effort into understanding, and then im just bored when i can understand them
"too bad artosis is sick today" as tasteless says.
I sort of keep covering my face a little bit whilst watching just out of embarrassment :S.
Is it confirmed now that moletrap is coming in full time?
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On February 23 2011 20:53 Scrimpton wrote:
It doesnt matter when tasteless keeps getting iterrupted by things that i have to really put effort into understanding, and then im just bored when i can understand them
"too bad artosis is sick today" as tasteless says.
I sort of keep covering my face a little bit whilst watching just out of embarrassment :S.
Is it confirmed now that moletrap is coming in full time?
Completely off-topic, it's almost like you're responding in the wrong thread but I know you're not. Keep your bitching to yourself.
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On February 23 2011 20:58 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 20:53 Scrimpton wrote:
It doesnt matter-
when tasteless keeps getting iterrupted by things that i have to really put effort into understanding, and then im just bored when i can understand them
"too bad artosis is sick today" as tasteless says.
I sort of keep covering my face a little bit whilst watching just out of embarrassment :S.
Is it confirmed now that moletrap is coming in full time? Completely off-topic, it's almost like you're responding in the wrong thread but I know you're not. Keep your bitching to yourself.
is it confirmed that moletrap is coming in full time?
Completely related to the thread though, it makes more sense to implement the things this thread is asking for when theres a large demand. according to a whole lot of people there's not so much demand right now.
I also really enjoy Artosis' hair and wish him well
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I think having a fixed NA/EU stream time might bring in enough new viewers (who in turn may buy tickets) to be worthwhile. Right now a lot of GSL fans watch live or watch VODs. There isn't really any way to bring friends into the fold;
I can't IM or text them and say "hey, check out the GSL game playing right now"--they're asleep or don't want to pay to see something they might not find interesting.
.With a fixed restream time would let people grab their online friends and attract more viewers overall
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Get Vods. Seriously, just to get the false feeling of a live they'd have to broadcast three times? (Real Live, US timezone, EU Timezone.) That's just stupid and, moreso, rather costy.
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They should just host the GSL in another country...
I kinda grow uninterested in the GSL just for the fact that i basically never can watch a match live.
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Pay for the VODs and support e-sports.
I agree that it would sure be great to watch the stream for free at a more reasonable time for us, but the best way to get e-sports to grow is to inject capital (see: money) into it.
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just watch the VoDs dude, dont be cheap
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I'm pretty sure they saw making the live casts free as a compromise, recognizing they could still collect revenue from the large, sleep-deprived NA audiences. I don't expect they'll change the present system in a hurry.
Give me an idea though - any chance NASL could rebroadcast in the KST evenings? That'd be fantastic...
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yeah so this is basicly for all the people NOT wanting to pay 10 bucks a month
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On February 23 2011 22:38 Velr wrote:
They should just host the GSL in another country...
I kinda grow uninterested in the GSL just for the fact that i basically never can watch a match live.
This the dumbest post I've ever read in TL, it's like asking Europeans to host Dreamhack outside of Europe because it doesn't suit Korean/Asia timezone. Use your brain before you post. Seriously.
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On February 23 2011 15:46 dacthehork wrote:
I don't think you guys understand
This doesn't replace VODs (on demand). It's a rebroadcast. A sing re-run at a set time.
The difference is that it lets them compete more directly with NA tournaments/events etc.
At a normal hour you have GSL rebroadcast, or NASL rebroadcast. It puts them in a better competitive spot.
Watching vods is a much different feel than a rebroadcast
Why would you want them to do this!? That sounds to me like the worst idea possible... Last thing we need is competition between the two leagues, I like it the way it is personally since I can watch the GSL games after or before the NASL games.
For the sake of e-sports in the west, the NASL must succeed...
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This is a good idea and I don't understand all the hate in the comments.
There are a lot of people out there who would watch the GSLs if they were broadcast once at a reasonable time in US/EU, but who aren't planning on subscribing to the VOD service or staying up super late to watch the livestream. Getting more viewers will:
First, get them more viewers on their ads
Second, increase the value of the ads
Third, show how much viewership is possible in the West, encouraging western advertisers to sponsor tournaments
Fourth, perhaps eventually allow them to lower the cost of VODs or remove it entirely, basing their revenue solely on advertisement
Obviously, this is where we all want the GSL service to be, and the only way it is going to get there is with more viewership. People (like me) who want to access match videos whenever they want can still buy VODs, but for some people being able watch the stream will give them access to these matches and it benefits GOM because those people are viewing GOMs ads and increasing viewership. There's no negative there.
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While it sounds cool and all.
Doesn't this like destroy the exact reason ppl prefer a stream over vods, cause its live?
I am all in for it but i rather watch the vods then since neither is live and since its a restream you can't skip pauses/games you don't wanna see.
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But then the live report threads will be much less crowded, and we won't be discussing the game at the same time.
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There are VODs already which you can watch anytime you want and it's even better quality then the stream. It's only 10 dollars which is like 7 euros? For a month of games that's nothing.
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GSL airtime is great for EU people imo
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Dunno when NASL will be, but i guess it a nice idea.
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The poll is really limited and biased. I would tune in or bad idea? What about don't care/do it if it's cost effective but I wouldn't watch it?
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I read the thread, thought "I see no difference in watching the vods..." and then clicked "Yes, good idea". Dang misclicks, probably why I can barely stay in Diamond!
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On February 24 2011 00:59 Morale wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 15:40 dacthehork wrote:
Hey guys, this idea seems kind of obvious to me, in order to compete better with NASL Compete with GSL? NASL is like GSL only worse players and no TasteosisXD
So what happens if previous GSL players play in NASL? Does the world explode?
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On February 24 2011 01:06 Terrakin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 00:59 Morale wrote:On February 23 2011 15:40 dacthehork wrote:
Hey guys, this idea seems kind of obvious to me, in order to compete better with NASL Compete with GSL? NASL is like GSL only worse players and no TasteosisXD So what happens if previous GSL players play in NASL? Does the world explode?
I dont see why theyd wanna compete with the NASL (which is 3 months away.) wouldnt they want to work WITH them to bring in a large amount of viewers for both instead of dividing the views?
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If you live in Europe, it's on at the best time it could be tbh, 10am GMT/11am euro time. Wake up around 8, have shower/breakfast then GSL all morning, leaving evenings free for being social/laddering/working.
This may be biased as I'm a student but I wouldn't want the stream on at any other time!
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On February 24 2011 01:15 raf3776 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 01:06 Terrakin wrote:On February 24 2011 00:59 Morale wrote:On February 23 2011 15:40 dacthehork wrote:
Hey guys, this idea seems kind of obvious to me, in order to compete better with NASL Compete with GSL? NASL is like GSL only worse players and no TasteosisXD So what happens if previous GSL players play in NASL? Does the world explode? I dont see why theyd wanna compete with the NASL (which is 3 months away.) wouldnt they want to work WITH them to bring in a large amount of viewers for both instead of dividing the views?
And how do you think the two are supposed to work together?
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On February 24 2011 01:15 raf3776 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 01:06 Terrakin wrote:On February 24 2011 00:59 Morale wrote:On February 23 2011 15:40 dacthehork wrote:
Hey guys, this idea seems kind of obvious to me, in order to compete better with NASL Compete with GSL? NASL is like GSL only worse players and no TasteosisXD So what happens if previous GSL players play in NASL? Does the world explode? I dont see why theyd wanna compete with the NASL (which is 3 months away.) wouldnt they want to work WITH them to bring in a large amount of viewers for both instead of dividing the views?
Nah, i rather have them competative, its gives the better experience for the consumer.
When ppl need to choose they will try whatever possible to get more of the viewers, this means better prices/content for all of us.
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I don't see how re-braocasting would help them compete with NASL...... the people who already pay for GSl can watch at their leisure via VODs....... those who don't pay aren't contributing to GOM and therefore GOM has no reason to use resources on them. Its that simple, they are focusing more on foreigners but why should they provide a free service on top of the free service they provide already?
As for NASL, they will have all of their players from EU and US, maybe a few from korea/asia so they are mainly catering to EU/US viewers...... GSL has like 4 foreigners in it, and whenever they are playing the stream numbers jump from normal, and VOD views jump too. If foreigners were playing every day then I could see them broadcasting at a more convenient time for us.... but there aren't always foreigners playing.
GSL gains nothing by giving another free broadcast, they would likely lose money because many people who buy the ticket because they can't watch live, wouldn't buy it if they could watch a free re-broadcast. I'm pretty sure that I would think twice about paying for a season ticket if i knew for a fact that I would be able to watch it live every time....
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a restream would be great, could even be fairly profitable if they made deals with some North American/European companies to show English ads during the massive downtime the korean ads are normally shown.
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People need to stop with the whole "IS REALLY WORTH IT, GET IT, IS NOT THAT MUCH MONEY, DO IT FOR ESPORTS" thing, this is not like free vods is like exactly what it sounds to be, a re-broadcast at a time when people can actually watch it.
And everyone that says that if they make a re-broadcast they would get 0 people buying the premium, have you no idea how the internet works? theres a million different places to get the vods for free, so if someone buys the season ticket is not because is the only way for them to watch it, but because they want to support GSL.
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The amount of uneducated thoughts and comments regarding "Business Sense" is absolutely astounding in this thread.
The niche of off-broadcast viewership is already fulfilled by High Quality VODs. I suppose if you were to Re stream for US Timezones, you would want to Re stream for EU timezones as well, to make sure none of your viewership is left out of the equation? Don't be ridiculous. Re streaming 2x would cost much more than a simple VOD system, and would net ZERO additional benefit.
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Canada13389 Posts
Vods let you pick and choose the games so you can avoid bad games or save time. I watched every gsl 2 and 3 game and some of that time was a waste tbh. no need to restream them all tbh :/
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As others have said here, I really enjoy watching GOM's VODs and I don't see why this would improve upon what they are already doing. In fact, I think VODs are superior to a restream because I can watch them at my own leisure. I am a law student so I have classes and must study sporadically throughout the day. I can catch some VODs while I am taking breaks or in the morning before I get rolling. Adds a nice little StarCraft ritual to my day.
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Although there are vods, i do think this would be a good thing as it would be a lot easier to introduce friends to the GSL without asking them to stay up until 4 am.
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What a stupid idea for gom. They do the livestream as a way for viewers to watch the matches live, not as a way to give away their content. Just pay them 10 dollars. And if you're truly so concerned with introducing friends to gsl have them watch the vod on your computer :O shocking. Stop trying to get free content that they have to put a lot of money into. Or how about this, they do a restream only for payed subscribers what a great idea!
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I've changed my mind. Assuming they have the capital to sustain and can advertise, I think they should try this during the next season. Personally, I think they should just showcase the Code S games. You want to your new audience to see your best casters and players imo. I'm not sure it's the right move, but your potential to grow is probably worth the shot.
Another thought I had was that battle.net should have at least a low res video player on their interface that plays a recent great GSL game with a link to GOMTV.net. You have millions of people who log onto battle.net who probably don't even know anything about the GSL. They're probably more likely to tune into GSL then someone who doesn't play SC2.
People saying there should be a way to restream all the games uninterrupted from the day before are correct.
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This shouldn't happen. It would take away season purchases as people will be able to watch the live stream. Sure it's horrible logic, but from a business standpoint, it's a smart move.
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United States5162 Posts
On February 24 2011 01:51 whiteguycash wrote:
The amount of uneducated thoughts and comments regarding "Business Sense" is absolutely astounding in this thread.
The niche of off-broadcast viewership is already fulfilled by High Quality VODs. I suppose if you were to Re stream for US Timezones, you would want to Re stream for EU timezones as well, to make sure none of your viewership is left out of the equation? Don't be ridiculous. Re streaming 2x would cost much more than a simple VOD system, and would net ZERO additional benefit.
You have some numbers for this? You state this like you know exactly how much it costs for them to stream a event rather then hold a database of VODs that are available whenever someone wants to access the.
Also, there is much benefit. I don't have to stay up to 4-6am to watch the games live, which I prefer much more then watching VODs.
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IMO were lucky to even get a free stream, regardless of the time it is on. Be grateful that they care enough to provide NA with English commentaries and such.
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On February 23 2011 22:39 plainsane wrote:
just watch the VoDs dude, dont be cheap
I've bought tickets for every season and I voted yes, don't make assumptions. A restream would let me introduce this to my friends who aren't into e-sports and don't watch gaming streams often.
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On February 23 2011 15:44 BLinD-RawR wrote:I thought the greatest thing about watching pro starcraft was fighting the urge of sleeping at 2AM to watch a starleague finals. it shows passion and dedication. School tomorrow?still watch starcraft at 2AM. Catch a a flight in the morning?Still watch starcraft at 2AM. + Show Spoiler +FOR THE PASSION,
FOR THE GLORY,
FOR THE MEMORIES,
FOR THE MONEY,
YOU'RE A GAMER,
YOU LOVE STARCRAFT,
WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?
ALL THE SAME!!!
Agree, although I wish it was 2am and not 4am 
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On February 24 2011 02:45 Pinith wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 22:39 plainsane wrote:
just watch the VoDs dude, dont be cheap I've bought tickets for every season and I voted yes, don't make assumptions. A restream would let me introduce this to my friends who aren't into e-sports and don't watch gaming streams often.
Have them come over and watch the VoDs instead?
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On February 24 2011 02:45 Pinith wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 22:39 plainsane wrote:
just watch the VoDs dude, dont be cheap I've bought tickets for every season and I voted yes, don't make assumptions. A restream would let me introduce this to my friends who aren't into e-sports and don't watch gaming streams often.
Herp derp I guess your friends couldn't just watch a VOD or two with you or would that not let them get the idea of what it is?
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I imagine it would make more 'business sense' to have the two work together. They're already setup to air at different times with 'generally' different groups of players. Would be cool to see them plug each other on occasion.
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The Poll is totally biased... where is the "I dont care" Option?
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On February 24 2011 02:35 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 01:51 whiteguycash wrote:
The amount of uneducated thoughts and comments regarding "Business Sense" is absolutely astounding in this thread.
The niche of off-broadcast viewership is already fulfilled by High Quality VODs. I suppose if you were to Re stream for US Timezones, you would want to Re stream for EU timezones as well, to make sure none of your viewership is left out of the equation? Don't be ridiculous. Re streaming 2x would cost much more than a simple VOD system, and would net ZERO additional benefit. You have some numbers for this? You state this like you know exactly how much it costs for them to stream a event rather then hold a database of VODs that are available whenever someone wants to access the. Also, there is much benefit. I don't have to stay up to 4-6am to watch the games live, which I prefer much more then watching VODs.
Uhhh what?
He doesn't need numbers to back up his claims.
Let x be the amount of money it costs to stream.
The amount of total money spent on streaming if they were to stream twice = 2x.
... which is what he said.
Anyway, the benefit is strictly to you. GOM gets nothing. In fact, they just get lowered ticket prices. You say you prefer to watch live games over VoDs, but restream wouldn't be live. A large majority of the community would either watch live or through VoDs anyway, there is no reason for a 2nd live showing.
It makes zero sense.
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This is pretty much the same thread I'd see if someone argues for making WoW free to play or something. Blizzard or GOM will never need to argue against this, because they've got enough people brainwashed into paying and trying to justify it to themselves on the forums to stomp out anyone opposing it by sheer numbers. "Oh but it's definitly worth the value," a parrot could repeat Tasteless' advertisement too. Good job. Watching Korean pro SC2 should be as costly and easy as watching the OSL finals. Everyone who forgets the extreme measures Blizzard is taking to make it not free and accessible are just sheep to me.
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This thread needs to be remade or something. I think 40% of the people responding are going "stop being cheap" when it's not about that. Maybe can this get a mod note on top or something? It's a good idea but people are just blindly responding to the title of the thread.
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United States5162 Posts
On February 24 2011 03:05 mprs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 02:35 Myles wrote:On February 24 2011 01:51 whiteguycash wrote:
The amount of uneducated thoughts and comments regarding "Business Sense" is absolutely astounding in this thread.
The niche of off-broadcast viewership is already fulfilled by High Quality VODs. I suppose if you were to Re stream for US Timezones, you would want to Re stream for EU timezones as well, to make sure none of your viewership is left out of the equation? Don't be ridiculous. Re streaming 2x would cost much more than a simple VOD system, and would net ZERO additional benefit. You have some numbers for this? You state this like you know exactly how much it costs for them to stream a event rather then hold a database of VODs that are available whenever someone wants to access the. Also, there is much benefit. I don't have to stay up to 4-6am to watch the games live, which I prefer much more then watching VODs. Uhhh what? He doesn't need numbers to back up his claims. Let x be the amount of money it costs to stream. The amount of total money spent on streaming if they were to stream twice = 2x. ... which is what he said. Anyway, the benefit is strictly to you. GOM gets nothing. In fact, they just get lowered ticket prices. You say you prefer to watch live games over VoDs, but restream wouldn't be live. A large majority of the community would either watch live or through VoDs anyway, there is no reason for a 2nd live showing. It makes zero sense.
No, he said that running the stream twice would cost much more then simply having vods. I disagree and want to know how he came to that conclusion. I asked for numbers because he's likely pulling it out of his ass and has no more authority to state it will cost much more then I have to say it will cost almost nothing more.
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i've heard it's similar to buying a dvd of sorts.
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On February 23 2011 15:44 BLinD-RawR wrote:I thought the greatest thing about watching pro starcraft was fighting the urge of sleeping at 2AM to watch a starleague finals. it shows passion and dedication. School tomorrow?still watch starcraft at 2AM. Catch a a flight in the morning?Still watch starcraft at 2AM. + Show Spoiler +FOR THE PASSION,
FOR THE GLORY,
FOR THE MEMORIES,
FOR THE MONEY,
YOU'RE A GAMER,
YOU LOVE STARCRAFT,
WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?
ALL THE SAME!!!
haha i agree with this i have classes everyday and usually i end up falling asleep with my laptop running GSL...and i usually stay up till 5-6am watching
and yeah in a way i think it shows that "dedication" to the game
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On February 24 2011 03:05 mprs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 02:35 Myles wrote:On February 24 2011 01:51 whiteguycash wrote:
The amount of uneducated thoughts and comments regarding "Business Sense" is absolutely astounding in this thread.
The niche of off-broadcast viewership is already fulfilled by High Quality VODs. I suppose if you were to Re stream for US Timezones, you would want to Re stream for EU timezones as well, to make sure none of your viewership is left out of the equation? Don't be ridiculous. Re streaming 2x would cost much more than a simple VOD system, and would net ZERO additional benefit. You have some numbers for this? You state this like you know exactly how much it costs for them to stream a event rather then hold a database of VODs that are available whenever someone wants to access the. Also, there is much benefit. I don't have to stay up to 4-6am to watch the games live, which I prefer much more then watching VODs. Uhhh what? He doesn't need numbers to back up his claims. Let x be the amount of money it costs to stream. The amount of total money spent on streaming if they were to stream twice = 2x. ... which is what he said. Anyway, the benefit is strictly to you. GOM gets nothing. In fact, they just get lowered ticket prices. You say you prefer to watch live games over VoDs, but restream wouldn't be live. A large majority of the community would either watch live or through VoDs anyway, there is no reason for a 2nd live showing. It makes zero sense.
Actually only if they get equal viewers both broadcasts. If they do, then it's a success. You only pay for the bandwidth that is used.
On February 24 2011 03:14 motioncity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 15:44 BLinD-RawR wrote:I thought the greatest thing about watching pro starcraft was fighting the urge of sleeping at 2AM to watch a starleague finals. it shows passion and dedication. School tomorrow?still watch starcraft at 2AM. Catch a a flight in the morning?Still watch starcraft at 2AM. + Show Spoiler +FOR THE PASSION,
FOR THE GLORY,
FOR THE MEMORIES,
FOR THE MONEY,
YOU'RE A GAMER,
YOU LOVE STARCRAFT,
WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?
ALL THE SAME!!! haha i agree with this i have classes everyday and usually i end up falling asleep with my laptop running GSL...and i usually stay up till 5-6am watching and yeah in a way i think it shows that "dedication" to the game
Don't forget GSL is at 4AM over here in the EST. Meaning staying up "to be a sport" or whatever is simply not an option for those with jobs.
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I don't think GOM needs to start competing with NASL quite yet... NASL needs to prove itself still, plus if it really is helping Esports grow in the West, then it may just boost premium sales for GSL.
Plus a restream isn't live... it's really the same as watching a VOD, except it's unpausable with long breaks between games, and you don't control when it starts. Plus the HD VODs are always higher quality than the streams. I don't really see any benefit over watching a VOD.
Edit: Removed the line about money.
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On February 24 2011 03:16 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote:
Plus a restream isn't live... it's really the same as watching a VOD, except it seems you just don't want to pay for it and it's unpausable with long breaks between games. Esports are awesome, why not put so money into the community you enjoy.
This is not about $, please read the thread/op.
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why would it be good if both leagues would be on the same time?
If they were to restream GSL i bet they wouldn't do it on the sametime another big league takes place because they would lose potencial VOD costumers and some viewers because some will prefer NASL!
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France300 Posts
so basically the op is saying; i want to watch gsl for free when i go home from work lol
i hear you since i have the same problem living in europe but its not gonna happen
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On February 24 2011 03:17 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 03:16 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote:
Plus a restream isn't live... it's really the same as watching a VOD, except it seems you just don't want to pay for it and it's unpausable with long breaks between games. Esports are awesome, why not put so money into the community you enjoy. This is not about $, please read the thread/op.
It doesn't matter what this thread is really about at this point, you're wasting your breath. They will oppose it because they're disgusted by the thought of other people getting for free what they convinced themselves was worth paying for. We're all in a shitty situation as far as GOM, but now it's like crabs in a barrel.
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I think what the main complaint is " Why can't GOM give me a free stream at a time that I'm awake" . Wow. Either buy the VODs or don't buy. You are not missing much from the VODs then the regular stream. Its actually better quality then the stream. Comparing it to the NASL is really not comparable, because the NASL will be prerecorded as well, so the cheat factor doesn't come in play.
If you are being frugal then you have to wake up in the morning to watch.
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For EU its actually not such a bad timing. Most of the time games are played from 10 am CET.
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OK mods can I have permission to remake this shit fest with a more complete OP in hopes that some people read it and will be much more in depth and cover 95% of the repeating posts in here?
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On February 24 2011 03:30 wireke wrote:
For EU its actually not such a bad timing. Most of the time games are played from 10 am CET.
How is that not bad for a "non student"?
Thats worse than in the middle of the night...
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On February 23 2011 15:44 BLinD-RawR wrote:I thought the greatest thing about watching pro starcraft was fighting the urge of sleeping at 2AM to watch a starleague finals. it shows passion and dedication. School tomorrow?still watch starcraft at 2AM. Catch a a flight in the morning?Still watch starcraft at 2AM. + Show Spoiler +FOR THE PASSION,
FOR THE GLORY,
FOR THE MEMORIES,
FOR THE MONEY,
YOU'RE A GAMER,
YOU LOVE STARCRAFT,
WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?
ALL THE SAME!!!
Unless, say, you're a responsible person and all.
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On February 24 2011 03:23 Rah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 03:17 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 24 2011 03:16 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote:
Plus a restream isn't live... it's really the same as watching a VOD, except it seems you just don't want to pay for it and it's unpausable with long breaks between games. Esports are awesome, why not put so money into the community you enjoy. This is not about $, please read the thread/op. It doesn't matter what this thread is really about at this point, you're wasting your breath. They will oppose it because they're disgusted by the thought of other people getting for free what they convinced themselves was worth paying for. We're all in a shitty situation as far as GOM, but now it's like crabs in a barrel.
Nothing is free.
Deal with it. You are wrong.
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On February 24 2011 03:04 ch4ppi wrote:
The Poll is totally biased... where is the "I dont care" Option?
if you don't care.........don't vote?
OT: Hell yeah restream that shit but only allow it to be accessible to people who HAVE bought the season ticket and increase the bitrate ftw.
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On February 24 2011 02:48 confusedcrib wrote:
Herp derp I guess your friends couldn't just watch a VOD or two with you or would that not let them get the idea of what it is?
I've moved several times, so I'm mostly talking about friends I mostly talk to online. Herp derp to you too
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On February 24 2011 03:42 Pinith wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 02:48 confusedcrib wrote:
Herp derp I guess your friends couldn't just watch a VOD or two with you or would that not let them get the idea of what it is? I've moved several times, so I'm mostly talking about friends I mostly talk to online. Herp derp to you too
Some of the Vods are free; they can watch those to get a good idea of what it is like.
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On February 24 2011 03:31 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
OK mods can I have permission to remake this shit fest with a more complete OP in hopes that some people read it and will be much more in depth and cover 95% of the repeating posts in here?
I understand the post. The UFC rebroadcasts its fights that were held in Europe, so viewers in the U.S can watch at home at the same time (around 10pm EST). The UFC also charges the regular PPV price even though its rebroadcast.
The World Cup doesn't always rebroadcasts its games, we have to catch it on a you tube video or if you have a premium service package you might get a game shown again.
So it does come down to money. It takes money to show these events again. The NFL has exclusive rights to all its games. Even with all its sponsors.
If GOMtv were to set its schedule so the rest of the world could watch it at a certain time, I believe they should be compensated for the effort.
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On February 24 2011 03:41 Marcus420 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 03:23 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:17 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 24 2011 03:16 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote:
Plus a restream isn't live... it's really the same as watching a VOD, except it seems you just don't want to pay for it and it's unpausable with long breaks between games. Esports are awesome, why not put so money into the community you enjoy. This is not about $, please read the thread/op. It doesn't matter what this thread is really about at this point, you're wasting your breath. They will oppose it because they're disgusted by the thought of other people getting for free what they convinced themselves was worth paying for. We're all in a shitty situation as far as GOM, but now it's like crabs in a barrel. Nothing is free. Deal with it. You are wrong.
All I hear is "baaaahhhhh". Broodwar Vods are free, non korean SC2 tournies are free, GSL is free for Koreans dude. See a trend? Don't shoot the messenger.
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On February 23 2011 15:44 BLinD-RawR wrote:I thought the greatest thing about watching pro starcraft was fighting the urge of sleeping at 2AM to watch a starleague finals. it shows passion and dedication. School tomorrow?still watch starcraft at 2AM. Catch a a flight in the morning?Still watch starcraft at 2AM. + Show Spoiler +FOR THE PASSION,
FOR THE GLORY,
FOR THE MEMORIES,
FOR THE MONEY,
YOU'RE A GAMER,
YOU LOVE STARCRAFT,
WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?
ALL THE SAME!!!
Kinda hard when the games start at 7AM
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Good for users, bad for GOM.
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I would probably tune in but haveing the VODs is really just thing. Its only 10$ a season so i really do not mind putting up the money. Its Reading week so i have been up every night watching it anyways but thats not a normal occurrence. I think the VODs are just fine.
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Why would streaming at the same time as NASL be good? They would split the market and hurt each other.
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Why can't you pay for the service? Atleast gom is kind enough to stream it for free in the first place, i'd say quit being needie.
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My tip if you missed it and don't wanna pay: Go on Justin.tv and search gsl code S. They're always there.
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I quit watching GSL because I don't have the energy to stay up that late and I'm not going to buy tickets for some silly VODS of a game I don't even think is living up to BW yet. If GOM doesn't restream at a different time, I'm just not interested in GSL.
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On February 24 2011 03:47 Rah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 03:41 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 03:23 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:17 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 24 2011 03:16 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote:
Plus a restream isn't live... it's really the same as watching a VOD, except it seems you just don't want to pay for it and it's unpausable with long breaks between games. Esports are awesome, why not put so money into the community you enjoy. This is not about $, please read the thread/op. It doesn't matter what this thread is really about at this point, you're wasting your breath. They will oppose it because they're disgusted by the thought of other people getting for free what they convinced themselves was worth paying for. We're all in a shitty situation as far as GOM, but now it's like crabs in a barrel. Nothing is free. Deal with it. You are wrong. All I hear is "baaaahhhhh". Broodwar Vods are free, non korean SC2 tournies are free, GSL is free for Koreans dude. See a trend? Don't shoot the messenger.
Sigh, do you have the act like that?
GSL free for koreans? yea cause they have adds. adds make money, maybe gom should try to get some english/american adds aswell, it would be more enjoyable then just a blank screen during the pauses atleast.
I dunno anything about brood war but did they had an international stream that was mend for the non-koreans inclusive professional casters/observer/interviews? if the answer is no, that argument fails aswell.
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On February 24 2011 03:55 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 03:47 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:41 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 03:23 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:17 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 24 2011 03:16 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote:
Plus a restream isn't live... it's really the same as watching a VOD, except it seems you just don't want to pay for it and it's unpausable with long breaks between games. Esports are awesome, why not put so money into the community you enjoy. This is not about $, please read the thread/op. It doesn't matter what this thread is really about at this point, you're wasting your breath. They will oppose it because they're disgusted by the thought of other people getting for free what they convinced themselves was worth paying for. We're all in a shitty situation as far as GOM, but now it's like crabs in a barrel. Nothing is free. Deal with it. You are wrong. All I hear is "baaaahhhhh". Broodwar Vods are free, non korean SC2 tournies are free, GSL is free for Koreans dude. See a trend? Don't shoot the messenger. Sigh, do you have the act like that? GSL free for koreans? yea cause they have adds. adds make money, maybe gom should try to get some english/american adds aswell, it would be more enjoyable then just a blank screen during the pauses atleast. I dunno anything about brood war but did they had an international stream that was mend for the non-koreans inclusive professional casters/observer/interviews? if the answer is no, that argument fails aswell.
On the international stream the answer is no, except for gom at one point who had a free one, or maybe just the vods, i forget. but for broodwar they also didn't use these "donations" you clowns pay to hire people to scour the web removing all fan generated content. There was a lot more selection on accessible commentators for big events.
Maybe I was a little over the top with how I said that to him, yea, but it annoys me when people feed into dumb shit like this. I guess I'll go back to quietly boycotting it. and yes, using those donations to pull in some ad people would sit better with me. Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin.
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I see no reason why they shouldn't restream it at a later time. They offer a free stream for a reason, so why wouldn't they want to make it more accesible to get more people interested in GSL?
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On February 24 2011 04:02 Rah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 03:55 Assirra wrote:On February 24 2011 03:47 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:41 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 03:23 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:17 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 24 2011 03:16 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote:
Plus a restream isn't live... it's really the same as watching a VOD, except it seems you just don't want to pay for it and it's unpausable with long breaks between games. Esports are awesome, why not put so money into the community you enjoy. This is not about $, please read the thread/op. It doesn't matter what this thread is really about at this point, you're wasting your breath. They will oppose it because they're disgusted by the thought of other people getting for free what they convinced themselves was worth paying for. We're all in a shitty situation as far as GOM, but now it's like crabs in a barrel. Nothing is free. Deal with it. You are wrong. All I hear is "baaaahhhhh". Broodwar Vods are free, non korean SC2 tournies are free, GSL is free for Koreans dude. See a trend? Don't shoot the messenger. Sigh, do you have the act like that? GSL free for koreans? yea cause they have adds. adds make money, maybe gom should try to get some english/american adds aswell, it would be more enjoyable then just a blank screen during the pauses atleast. I dunno anything about brood war but did they had an international stream that was mend for the non-koreans inclusive professional casters/observer/interviews? if the answer is no, that argument fails aswell. On the international stream the answer is no, except for gom at one point who had a free one, or maybe just the vods, i forget. but for broodwar they also didn't use these "donations" you clowns pay to hire people to scour the web removing all fan generated content. There was a lot more selection on accessible commentators for big events. Maybe I was a little over the top with how I said that to him, yea, but it annoys me when people feed into dumb shit like this. I guess I'll go back to quietly boycotting it. and yes, using those donations to pull in some ad people would sit better with me. Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin.
What in the fuck are you talking about? Fan generated content? Oh, im sorry they are abiding by copyright laws for their own well being.
They are a business that needs to make profit; get that clear in your head.
95% of people dont mind paying $10 or so to support a very high quality stream with some of the best sc2 games in the world.
You're second paragraph just makes you look like an asshole who can only argue by attacking someone.
Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin.
This made me laugh.
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On February 24 2011 03:13 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 03:05 mprs wrote:On February 24 2011 02:35 Myles wrote:On February 24 2011 01:51 whiteguycash wrote:
The amount of uneducated thoughts and comments regarding "Business Sense" is absolutely astounding in this thread.
The niche of off-broadcast viewership is already fulfilled by High Quality VODs. I suppose if you were to Re stream for US Timezones, you would want to Re stream for EU timezones as well, to make sure none of your viewership is left out of the equation? Don't be ridiculous. Re streaming 2x would cost much more than a simple VOD system, and would net ZERO additional benefit. You have some numbers for this? You state this like you know exactly how much it costs for them to stream a event rather then hold a database of VODs that are available whenever someone wants to access the. Also, there is much benefit. I don't have to stay up to 4-6am to watch the games live, which I prefer much more then watching VODs. Uhhh what? He doesn't need numbers to back up his claims. Let x be the amount of money it costs to stream. The amount of total money spent on streaming if they were to stream twice = 2x. ... which is what he said. Anyway, the benefit is strictly to you. GOM gets nothing. In fact, they just get lowered ticket prices. You say you prefer to watch live games over VoDs, but restream wouldn't be live. A large majority of the community would either watch live or through VoDs anyway, there is no reason for a 2nd live showing. It makes zero sense. No, he said that running the stream twice would cost much more then simply having vods. I disagree and want to know how he came to that conclusion. I asked for numbers because he's likely pulling it out of his ass and has no more authority to state it will cost much more then I have to say it will cost almost nothing more.
Maybe my intent wasn't clear, but mprs was absolutely correct in his conclusion of my intent.
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On February 24 2011 04:51 Marcus420 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 04:02 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:55 Assirra wrote:On February 24 2011 03:47 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:41 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 03:23 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:17 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 24 2011 03:16 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote:
Plus a restream isn't live... it's really the same as watching a VOD, except it seems you just don't want to pay for it and it's unpausable with long breaks between games. Esports are awesome, why not put so money into the community you enjoy. This is not about $, please read the thread/op. It doesn't matter what this thread is really about at this point, you're wasting your breath. They will oppose it because they're disgusted by the thought of other people getting for free what they convinced themselves was worth paying for. We're all in a shitty situation as far as GOM, but now it's like crabs in a barrel. Nothing is free. Deal with it. You are wrong. All I hear is "baaaahhhhh". Broodwar Vods are free, non korean SC2 tournies are free, GSL is free for Koreans dude. See a trend? Don't shoot the messenger. Sigh, do you have the act like that? GSL free for koreans? yea cause they have adds. adds make money, maybe gom should try to get some english/american adds aswell, it would be more enjoyable then just a blank screen during the pauses atleast. I dunno anything about brood war but did they had an international stream that was mend for the non-koreans inclusive professional casters/observer/interviews? if the answer is no, that argument fails aswell. On the international stream the answer is no, except for gom at one point who had a free one, or maybe just the vods, i forget. but for broodwar they also didn't use these "donations" you clowns pay to hire people to scour the web removing all fan generated content. There was a lot more selection on accessible commentators for big events. Maybe I was a little over the top with how I said that to him, yea, but it annoys me when people feed into dumb shit like this. I guess I'll go back to quietly boycotting it. and yes, using those donations to pull in some ad people would sit better with me. Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin. What in the fuck are you talking about? Fan generated content? Oh, im sorry they are abiding by copyright laws for their own well being. They are a business that needs to make profit; get that clear in your head. 95% of people dont mind paying $10 or so to support a very high quality stream with some of the best sc2 games in the world. You're second paragraph just makes you look like an asshole who can only argue by attacking someone. This made me laugh.
Doesn't Blizzard fund GOM in some way? Or is it just the prize money..
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On February 24 2011 04:55 Deadlyhazard wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 04:51 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 04:02 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:55 Assirra wrote:On February 24 2011 03:47 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:41 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 03:23 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:17 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 24 2011 03:16 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote:
Plus a restream isn't live... it's really the same as watching a VOD, except it seems you just don't want to pay for it and it's unpausable with long breaks between games. Esports are awesome, why not put so money into the community you enjoy. This is not about $, please read the thread/op. It doesn't matter what this thread is really about at this point, you're wasting your breath. They will oppose it because they're disgusted by the thought of other people getting for free what they convinced themselves was worth paying for. We're all in a shitty situation as far as GOM, but now it's like crabs in a barrel. Nothing is free. Deal with it. You are wrong. All I hear is "baaaahhhhh". Broodwar Vods are free, non korean SC2 tournies are free, GSL is free for Koreans dude. See a trend? Don't shoot the messenger. Sigh, do you have the act like that? GSL free for koreans? yea cause they have adds. adds make money, maybe gom should try to get some english/american adds aswell, it would be more enjoyable then just a blank screen during the pauses atleast. I dunno anything about brood war but did they had an international stream that was mend for the non-koreans inclusive professional casters/observer/interviews? if the answer is no, that argument fails aswell. On the international stream the answer is no, except for gom at one point who had a free one, or maybe just the vods, i forget. but for broodwar they also didn't use these "donations" you clowns pay to hire people to scour the web removing all fan generated content. There was a lot more selection on accessible commentators for big events. Maybe I was a little over the top with how I said that to him, yea, but it annoys me when people feed into dumb shit like this. I guess I'll go back to quietly boycotting it. and yes, using those donations to pull in some ad people would sit better with me. Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin. What in the fuck are you talking about? Fan generated content? Oh, im sorry they are abiding by copyright laws for their own well being. They are a business that needs to make profit; get that clear in your head. 95% of people dont mind paying $10 or so to support a very high quality stream with some of the best sc2 games in the world. You're second paragraph just makes you look like an asshole who can only argue by attacking someone. Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin. This made me laugh. Doesn't Blizzard fund GOM in some way? Or is it just the prize money..
I think its GOM who pays Blizzard for the rights to broadcast their game live on TV and such. Dont know how the rest works.
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I thought GOM didn't have to pay anything, cause Blizzard was trying to screw over kespa or w/e by giving GOM exclusive broadcasting rights in Korea. Pretty sure the prize money comes partially from blizzard, and sponsors like intel. Whatever the case is GOM and Blizzard seem pretty tight, it seems like theres always blizzard people at the GSL.
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On February 24 2011 05:14 Gao Xi wrote:
I thought GOM didn't have to pay anything, cause Blizzard was trying to screw over kespa or w/e by giving GOM exclusive broadcasting rights in Korea. Pretty sure the prize money comes partially from blizzard, and sponsors like intel. Whatever the case is GOM and Blizzard seem pretty tight, it seems like theres always blizzard people at the GSL.
Possibly.
My understanding is that Kespa doesnt want sc2 because they had to pay for broadcasting rights. I could be wrong though.
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On February 24 2011 05:14 Gao Xi wrote:
I thought GOM didn't have to pay anything, cause Blizzard was trying to screw over kespa or w/e by giving GOM exclusive broadcasting rights in Korea. Pretty sure the prize money comes partially from blizzard, and sponsors like intel. Whatever the case is GOM and Blizzard seem pretty tight, it seems like theres always blizzard people at the GSL.
no. they have to pay money.
They pay money _for_ the exclusive rights. that's how business works.
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On February 24 2011 05:20 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 05:14 Gao Xi wrote:
I thought GOM didn't have to pay anything, cause Blizzard was trying to screw over kespa or w/e by giving GOM exclusive broadcasting rights in Korea. Pretty sure the prize money comes partially from blizzard, and sponsors like intel. Whatever the case is GOM and Blizzard seem pretty tight, it seems like theres always blizzard people at the GSL. no. they have to pay money. They pay money _for_ the exclusive rights. that's how business works.
I guess thats true.
Apparently i was right, they get it for free, pretty much.
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Info i found on the whole KeSPA, gomtv and blizzard thing..
"For those who are not really aware of KeSPA's business, here's the timeline of KeSPA and its major events in (South) Korea
1. KeSPA (Korean e-Sports Player Association) was founded.
2. Blizzard didn't pay much attention to KeSPA.
3. KeSPA tried to sell tickets to offline audience for the final match of Ongamenet Starcraft taurnament.
4. Blizzard said, 'No, you can't do that.'
5. KeSPA then started to take money from two major game channels, Ongamenet and MBC Game, for broadcasting Starcraft matches in Korea
6. Blizzard got mad a bit about this.
7. Only GomTV contacted Blizzard directly to request for broadcasting matches online.
8. Blizzard asked only 1$ for the contract fee.
9. GomTV created GomTV Classic and began to broadcast games.
10. Around Season 4, KeSPA told GomTV to pay money for the broadcasting.
11. GomTV argued that KeSPA didn't have any rights to do so by mentioning its contract with Blizzard.
12. KeSPA pulled their progamers out of GomTV Classic matches.
13. Eventually, GomTV went out of business.
14. Blizzard got really mad.
15. Blizzard set in motion to protect its property as well as intellectual property of Starcraft.
16. Blizzard tried to negotiate a contract with KeSPA.
17. KeSPA refused, argueing that e-sports are like other sports such as basketball and soccer, and we don't pay money to the creator of the soccer ball for soccer games. Starcraft is for the public use like the soccer ball.
18. Michael Morhaime, the president of Blizzard, visited Korea to meet progamers while promoting new Starcraft2 beta in Korea.
19. KeSPA threatened each progamer team not to meet Michael Morhaime.
20. So Michael Morhaime couldn't meet any progamers and had to return to U.S. in vain.
21. Blizzard constantly tried to negotiate with KeSPA, but KeSPA kept refusing for the same reason.
22. Blizzard finally announced that there'll be no negotiation with KeSPA.
23. Blizzard provided GomTV with the rights for broadcasting all the matches using Blizzard games. Also Blizzard informed that all the matches from KeSPA after the end of August, 2010 will expire, so KeSPA will not be able to have any matches using Blizzard games, otherwise be sued by Blizzard.
24. KeSPA furiously reacted to the 'sudden' terms. (Actually, it seemed like threatenening Blizzard)
25. Ongamenet and MBC Game hurriedly tried to negotiate with GomTV
26. In fact, there's no difference for them because they are going to pay GomTV the same money which they've been paying to KeSPA.
27. The only weapon that KeSPA has now is progamer teams that belong to KeSPA.
28. KeSPA prohibited progamers (including SlayersBoxer and NaDa) from playing, or even trying, Starcraft 2.
29. Consequently, the current high ranking players are usually retired progamers and amateurs.
30. GomTV prepared for the broadcast of GSL(Global Starcraft 2 League).
31. The scale of the league surpassed by far that from KeSPA.
32. KeSPA is now trying some media manipulation saying bad things about Starcraft 2
33. Recently, KeSPA forced NaDa to quit playing during the Starcraft2 event match that was held in Germany.
34. KeSPA gave an excuse that it was because of a network problem.
35. KeSPA changed the excuse that NaDa had another event to attend to at that time.
Most of these are known facts that have happend and are happening in Korea.
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On February 24 2011 05:20 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 05:14 Gao Xi wrote:
I thought GOM didn't have to pay anything, cause Blizzard was trying to screw over kespa or w/e by giving GOM exclusive broadcasting rights in Korea. Pretty sure the prize money comes partially from blizzard, and sponsors like intel. Whatever the case is GOM and Blizzard seem pretty tight, it seems like theres always blizzard people at the GSL. no. they have to pay money. They pay money _for_ the exclusive rights. that's how business works.
$1, for real. That's what it cost GOM to get them. You can find it in one of the KESPA drama threads but that's what Blizz gave it to them for.
Edit: See post above this.
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On February 24 2011 04:51 Marcus420 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 04:02 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:55 Assirra wrote:On February 24 2011 03:47 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:41 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 03:23 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:17 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 24 2011 03:16 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote:
Plus a restream isn't live... it's really the same as watching a VOD, except it seems you just don't want to pay for it and it's unpausable with long breaks between games. Esports are awesome, why not put so money into the community you enjoy. This is not about $, please read the thread/op. It doesn't matter what this thread is really about at this point, you're wasting your breath. They will oppose it because they're disgusted by the thought of other people getting for free what they convinced themselves was worth paying for. We're all in a shitty situation as far as GOM, but now it's like crabs in a barrel. Nothing is free. Deal with it. You are wrong. All I hear is "baaaahhhhh". Broodwar Vods are free, non korean SC2 tournies are free, GSL is free for Koreans dude. See a trend? Don't shoot the messenger. Sigh, do you have the act like that? GSL free for koreans? yea cause they have adds. adds make money, maybe gom should try to get some english/american adds aswell, it would be more enjoyable then just a blank screen during the pauses atleast. I dunno anything about brood war but did they had an international stream that was mend for the non-koreans inclusive professional casters/observer/interviews? if the answer is no, that argument fails aswell. On the international stream the answer is no, except for gom at one point who had a free one, or maybe just the vods, i forget. but for broodwar they also didn't use these "donations" you clowns pay to hire people to scour the web removing all fan generated content. There was a lot more selection on accessible commentators for big events. Maybe I was a little over the top with how I said that to him, yea, but it annoys me when people feed into dumb shit like this. I guess I'll go back to quietly boycotting it. and yes, using those donations to pull in some ad people would sit better with me. Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin. What in the fuck are you talking about? Fan generated content? Oh, im sorry they are abiding by copyright laws for their own well being. They are a business that needs to make profit; get that clear in your head. 95% of people dont mind paying $10 or so to support a very high quality stream with some of the best sc2 games in the world. You're second paragraph just makes you look like an asshole who can only argue by attacking someone. This made me laugh.
95% of people eh? I can smell where you pulled that number from. Not gonna bother responding to the rest of that because your sentences are either hypocritical, or it's you trying to convince yourself that it you weren't dumb on paying for it. Already went over this.
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On February 24 2011 05:30 Rah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 04:51 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 04:02 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:55 Assirra wrote:On February 24 2011 03:47 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:41 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 03:23 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:17 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 24 2011 03:16 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote:
Plus a restream isn't live... it's really the same as watching a VOD, except it seems you just don't want to pay for it and it's unpausable with long breaks between games. Esports are awesome, why not put so money into the community you enjoy. This is not about $, please read the thread/op. It doesn't matter what this thread is really about at this point, you're wasting your breath. They will oppose it because they're disgusted by the thought of other people getting for free what they convinced themselves was worth paying for. We're all in a shitty situation as far as GOM, but now it's like crabs in a barrel. Nothing is free. Deal with it. You are wrong. All I hear is "baaaahhhhh". Broodwar Vods are free, non korean SC2 tournies are free, GSL is free for Koreans dude. See a trend? Don't shoot the messenger. Sigh, do you have the act like that? GSL free for koreans? yea cause they have adds. adds make money, maybe gom should try to get some english/american adds aswell, it would be more enjoyable then just a blank screen during the pauses atleast. I dunno anything about brood war but did they had an international stream that was mend for the non-koreans inclusive professional casters/observer/interviews? if the answer is no, that argument fails aswell. On the international stream the answer is no, except for gom at one point who had a free one, or maybe just the vods, i forget. but for broodwar they also didn't use these "donations" you clowns pay to hire people to scour the web removing all fan generated content. There was a lot more selection on accessible commentators for big events. Maybe I was a little over the top with how I said that to him, yea, but it annoys me when people feed into dumb shit like this. I guess I'll go back to quietly boycotting it. and yes, using those donations to pull in some ad people would sit better with me. Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin. What in the fuck are you talking about? Fan generated content? Oh, im sorry they are abiding by copyright laws for their own well being. They are a business that needs to make profit; get that clear in your head. 95% of people dont mind paying $10 or so to support a very high quality stream with some of the best sc2 games in the world. You're second paragraph just makes you look like an asshole who can only argue by attacking someone. Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin. This made me laugh. 95% of people eh? I can smell where you pulled that number from. Not gonna bother responding to the rest of that because your arguments are either hypocritical, or it's you trying to convince yourself that it you weren't dumb for paying for it. Already went over this.
Yes, i made that number to prove a point. The rest of your post is just garbage.
Sorry, but how am i being a hypocrite or dumb for paying for something I THINK deserves my money. There are tons of people who work VERY hard to bring the content to the rest of the world. John would be my best example. Almost everyone on this site would agree; i guarantee.
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this is how gom makes their money, if u don't have the time to stay up and watch it live for free, pay for the vods.
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On February 24 2011 05:28 Marcus420 wrote:Info i found on the whole KeSPA, gomtv and blizzard thing.. Show nested quote +
"For those who are not really aware of KeSPA's business, here's the timeline of KeSPA and its major events in (South) Korea
1. KeSPA (Korean e-Sports Player Association) was founded.
2. Blizzard didn't pay much attention to KeSPA.
3. KeSPA tried to sell tickets to offline audience for the final match of Ongamenet Starcraft taurnament.
4. Blizzard said, 'No, you can't do that.'
5. KeSPA then started to take money from two major game channels, Ongamenet and MBC Game, for broadcasting Starcraft matches in Korea
6. Blizzard got mad a bit about this.
7. Only GomTV contacted Blizzard directly to request for broadcasting matches online.
8. Blizzard asked only 1$ for the contract fee.
9. GomTV created GomTV Classic and began to broadcast games.
10. Around Season 4, KeSPA told GomTV to pay money for the broadcasting.
11. GomTV argued that KeSPA didn't have any rights to do so by mentioning its contract with Blizzard.
12. KeSPA pulled their progamers out of GomTV Classic matches.
13. Eventually, GomTV went out of business.
14. Blizzard got really mad.
15. Blizzard set in motion to protect its property as well as intellectual property of Starcraft.
16. Blizzard tried to negotiate a contract with KeSPA.
17. KeSPA refused, argueing that e-sports are like other sports such as basketball and soccer, and we don't pay money to the creator of the soccer ball for soccer games. Starcraft is for the public use like the soccer ball.
18. Michael Morhaime, the president of Blizzard, visited Korea to meet progamers while promoting new Starcraft2 beta in Korea.
19. KeSPA threatened each progamer team not to meet Michael Morhaime.
20. So Michael Morhaime couldn't meet any progamers and had to return to U.S. in vain.
21. Blizzard constantly tried to negotiate with KeSPA, but KeSPA kept refusing for the same reason.
22. Blizzard finally announced that there'll be no negotiation with KeSPA.
23. Blizzard provided GomTV with the rights for broadcasting all the matches using Blizzard games. Also Blizzard informed that all the matches from KeSPA after the end of August, 2010 will expire, so KeSPA will not be able to have any matches using Blizzard games, otherwise be sued by Blizzard.
24. KeSPA furiously reacted to the 'sudden' terms. (Actually, it seemed like threatenening Blizzard)
25. Ongamenet and MBC Game hurriedly tried to negotiate with GomTV
26. In fact, there's no difference for them because they are going to pay GomTV the same money which they've been paying to KeSPA.
27. The only weapon that KeSPA has now is progamer teams that belong to KeSPA.
28. KeSPA prohibited progamers (including SlayersBoxer and NaDa) from playing, or even trying, Starcraft 2.
29. Consequently, the current high ranking players are usually retired progamers and amateurs.
30. GomTV prepared for the broadcast of GSL(Global Starcraft 2 League).
31. The scale of the league surpassed by far that from KeSPA.
32. KeSPA is now trying some media manipulation saying bad things about Starcraft 2
33. Recently, KeSPA forced NaDa to quit playing during the Starcraft2 event match that was held in Germany.
34. KeSPA gave an excuse that it was because of a network problem.
35. KeSPA changed the excuse that NaDa had another event to attend to at that time.
Most of these are known facts that have happend and are happening in Korea.
The problem with this order of events is it neglects to explain why Kespa was formed or its function, or even who Kespa is.
Kespa was formed by the pro teams, and it has in essence always existed to serve the pro teams.
When it says something like "Kespa tried to force Gom to pay rights" it could just as easily be construed as saying they have to pay a fee to the pro teams for the use of their players, whose salaries are paid by the teams. These are the stars that people tune in to watch, you can offer a prize pool but at the end of the day their real pay comes from their salary, so if you are going to use them for viewers, is it not fair to pay?
Also bear in mind not every team pulled out of the GOM tournaments, while every team is a member of Kespa. So to say "Kespa pulled out" isn't really a completely truthful statement.
Ultimately I don't think they get the fairest shake in all this, the way I see it they try to look out for the interests of the teams, which were vital in BW's growth.
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On February 24 2011 05:36 Marcus420 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 05:30 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 04:51 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 04:02 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:55 Assirra wrote:On February 24 2011 03:47 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:41 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 03:23 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:17 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On February 24 2011 03:16 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote:
Plus a restream isn't live... it's really the same as watching a VOD, except it seems you just don't want to pay for it and it's unpausable with long breaks between games. Esports are awesome, why not put so money into the community you enjoy. This is not about $, please read the thread/op. It doesn't matter what this thread is really about at this point, you're wasting your breath. They will oppose it because they're disgusted by the thought of other people getting for free what they convinced themselves was worth paying for. We're all in a shitty situation as far as GOM, but now it's like crabs in a barrel. Nothing is free. Deal with it. You are wrong. All I hear is "baaaahhhhh". Broodwar Vods are free, non korean SC2 tournies are free, GSL is free for Koreans dude. See a trend? Don't shoot the messenger. Sigh, do you have the act like that? GSL free for koreans? yea cause they have adds. adds make money, maybe gom should try to get some english/american adds aswell, it would be more enjoyable then just a blank screen during the pauses atleast. I dunno anything about brood war but did they had an international stream that was mend for the non-koreans inclusive professional casters/observer/interviews? if the answer is no, that argument fails aswell. On the international stream the answer is no, except for gom at one point who had a free one, or maybe just the vods, i forget. but for broodwar they also didn't use these "donations" you clowns pay to hire people to scour the web removing all fan generated content. There was a lot more selection on accessible commentators for big events. Maybe I was a little over the top with how I said that to him, yea, but it annoys me when people feed into dumb shit like this. I guess I'll go back to quietly boycotting it. and yes, using those donations to pull in some ad people would sit better with me. Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin. What in the fuck are you talking about? Fan generated content? Oh, im sorry they are abiding by copyright laws for their own well being. They are a business that needs to make profit; get that clear in your head. 95% of people dont mind paying $10 or so to support a very high quality stream with some of the best sc2 games in the world. You're second paragraph just makes you look like an asshole who can only argue by attacking someone. Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin. This made me laugh. 95% of people eh? I can smell where you pulled that number from. Not gonna bother responding to the rest of that because your arguments are either hypocritical, or it's you trying to convince yourself that it you weren't dumb for paying for it. Already went over this. Yes, i made that number to prove a point. The rest of your post is just garbage. Sorry, but how am i being a hypocrite or dumb for paying for something I THINK deserves my money. There are tons of people who work VERY hard to bring the content to the rest of the world. John would be my best example. Almost everyone on this site would agree; i guarantee.
Would you say 95% of people on this site would agree with you? You seem to have some serious knowledge on demographics Marcus420. I'll break down what I meant since you insist on it.
I don't think that there's anything wrong with donating to e-sports if you got the money to blow, but I think they should let the quality attract people rather than trying to restrict other options. They shoot themselves in the foot with exposure and we find other ways to watch it anyway if we really want to.
+ Show Spoiler +The hypocrite line was about how you made a post attacking me while accusing me of only knowing how to attack people in an argue. Didn't think it was so hard to notice.
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They already have this, its called VODs. I can watch them whenever I want.
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On February 24 2011 05:53 Rah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 05:36 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 05:30 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 04:51 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 04:02 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:55 Assirra wrote:On February 24 2011 03:47 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:41 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 03:23 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:17 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
[quote]
This is not about $, please read the thread/op. It doesn't matter what this thread is really about at this point, you're wasting your breath. They will oppose it because they're disgusted by the thought of other people getting for free what they convinced themselves was worth paying for. We're all in a shitty situation as far as GOM, but now it's like crabs in a barrel. Nothing is free. Deal with it. You are wrong. All I hear is "baaaahhhhh". Broodwar Vods are free, non korean SC2 tournies are free, GSL is free for Koreans dude. See a trend? Don't shoot the messenger. Sigh, do you have the act like that? GSL free for koreans? yea cause they have adds. adds make money, maybe gom should try to get some english/american adds aswell, it would be more enjoyable then just a blank screen during the pauses atleast. I dunno anything about brood war but did they had an international stream that was mend for the non-koreans inclusive professional casters/observer/interviews? if the answer is no, that argument fails aswell. On the international stream the answer is no, except for gom at one point who had a free one, or maybe just the vods, i forget. but for broodwar they also didn't use these "donations" you clowns pay to hire people to scour the web removing all fan generated content. There was a lot more selection on accessible commentators for big events. Maybe I was a little over the top with how I said that to him, yea, but it annoys me when people feed into dumb shit like this. I guess I'll go back to quietly boycotting it. and yes, using those donations to pull in some ad people would sit better with me. Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin. What in the fuck are you talking about? Fan generated content? Oh, im sorry they are abiding by copyright laws for their own well being. They are a business that needs to make profit; get that clear in your head. 95% of people dont mind paying $10 or so to support a very high quality stream with some of the best sc2 games in the world. You're second paragraph just makes you look like an asshole who can only argue by attacking someone. Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin. This made me laugh. 95% of people eh? I can smell where you pulled that number from. Not gonna bother responding to the rest of that because your arguments are either hypocritical, or it's you trying to convince yourself that it you weren't dumb for paying for it. Already went over this. Yes, i made that number to prove a point. The rest of your post is just garbage. Sorry, but how am i being a hypocrite or dumb for paying for something I THINK deserves my money. There are tons of people who work VERY hard to bring the content to the rest of the world. John would be my best example. Almost everyone on this site would agree; i guarantee. Would you say 95% of people on this site would agree with you? You seem to have some serious knowledge on demographics Marcus420. I'll break down what I meant since you insist on it. I don't think that there's anything wrong with donating to e-sports if you got the money to blow, but I think they should let the quality attract people rather than trying to restrict other options. They shoot themselves in the foot with exposure and we find other ways to watch it anyway if we really want to. + Show Spoiler +The hypocrite line was about how you made a post attacking me while accusing me of only knowing how to attack people in an argue. Didn't think it was so hard to notice.
Wait wait wait, are you Actually arguing that they should not charge money for content?
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On February 24 2011 05:53 Rah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 05:36 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 05:30 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 04:51 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 04:02 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:55 Assirra wrote:On February 24 2011 03:47 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:41 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 03:23 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:17 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
[quote]
This is not about $, please read the thread/op. It doesn't matter what this thread is really about at this point, you're wasting your breath. They will oppose it because they're disgusted by the thought of other people getting for free what they convinced themselves was worth paying for. We're all in a shitty situation as far as GOM, but now it's like crabs in a barrel. Nothing is free. Deal with it. You are wrong. All I hear is "baaaahhhhh". Broodwar Vods are free, non korean SC2 tournies are free, GSL is free for Koreans dude. See a trend? Don't shoot the messenger. Sigh, do you have the act like that? GSL free for koreans? yea cause they have adds. adds make money, maybe gom should try to get some english/american adds aswell, it would be more enjoyable then just a blank screen during the pauses atleast. I dunno anything about brood war but did they had an international stream that was mend for the non-koreans inclusive professional casters/observer/interviews? if the answer is no, that argument fails aswell. On the international stream the answer is no, except for gom at one point who had a free one, or maybe just the vods, i forget. but for broodwar they also didn't use these "donations" you clowns pay to hire people to scour the web removing all fan generated content. There was a lot more selection on accessible commentators for big events. Maybe I was a little over the top with how I said that to him, yea, but it annoys me when people feed into dumb shit like this. I guess I'll go back to quietly boycotting it. and yes, using those donations to pull in some ad people would sit better with me. Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin. What in the fuck are you talking about? Fan generated content? Oh, im sorry they are abiding by copyright laws for their own well being. They are a business that needs to make profit; get that clear in your head. 95% of people dont mind paying $10 or so to support a very high quality stream with some of the best sc2 games in the world. You're second paragraph just makes you look like an asshole who can only argue by attacking someone. Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin. This made me laugh. 95% of people eh? I can smell where you pulled that number from. Not gonna bother responding to the rest of that because your arguments are either hypocritical, or it's you trying to convince yourself that it you weren't dumb for paying for it. Already went over this. Yes, i made that number to prove a point. The rest of your post is just garbage. Sorry, but how am i being a hypocrite or dumb for paying for something I THINK deserves my money. There are tons of people who work VERY hard to bring the content to the rest of the world. John would be my best example. Almost everyone on this site would agree; i guarantee. Would you say 95% of people on this site would agree with you? You seem to have some serious knowledge on demographics Marcus420. I'll break down what I meant since you insist on it. I don't think that there's anything wrong with donating to e-sports if you got the money to blow, but I think they should let the quality attract people rather than trying to restrict other options. They shoot themselves in the foot with exposure and we find other ways to watch it anyway if we really want to. + Show Spoiler +The hypocrite line was about how you made a post attacking me while accusing me of only knowing how to attack people in an argue. Didn't think it was so hard to notice.
I wouldnt say exactly 95%; but i would consider that majority of the people who come on this site have some common sense, related to that if there is someone working their ass off to make people like me and you happy, they should be getting paid.
This post is much more civilized; and i would agree with some of your points.
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On February 24 2011 05:56 Sanguinarius wrote:
They already have this, its called VODs. I can watch them whenever I want.
Well he's meaning for free lol. But don't see GOM doing this while its a good idea just don't see it happening . But its not expensive to get the vods anyway 10$ I think it is still?
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Please don't let this thread devolve into a KESPA v. Blizzard thread. For what its worth, I agree with iCCup.Diamond here, simply re-streaming the games at a time where foreigners can tune in will give GOM a larger audience and in return, probably more premium ticket holders.
Much like what the UFC did.
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As-live broadcasting is the next best thing to live broadcasting. I hope thus re-broadcasts will be a feature of future seasons.
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On February 24 2011 06:01 whiteguycash wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 05:53 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 05:36 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 05:30 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 04:51 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 04:02 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:55 Assirra wrote:On February 24 2011 03:47 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:41 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 03:23 Rah wrote:
[quote]
It doesn't matter what this thread is really about at this point, you're wasting your breath. They will oppose it because they're disgusted by the thought of other people getting for free what they convinced themselves was worth paying for. We're all in a shitty situation as far as GOM, but now it's like crabs in a barrel. Nothing is free. Deal with it. You are wrong. All I hear is "baaaahhhhh". Broodwar Vods are free, non korean SC2 tournies are free, GSL is free for Koreans dude. See a trend? Don't shoot the messenger. Sigh, do you have the act like that? GSL free for koreans? yea cause they have adds. adds make money, maybe gom should try to get some english/american adds aswell, it would be more enjoyable then just a blank screen during the pauses atleast. I dunno anything about brood war but did they had an international stream that was mend for the non-koreans inclusive professional casters/observer/interviews? if the answer is no, that argument fails aswell. On the international stream the answer is no, except for gom at one point who had a free one, or maybe just the vods, i forget. but for broodwar they also didn't use these "donations" you clowns pay to hire people to scour the web removing all fan generated content. There was a lot more selection on accessible commentators for big events. Maybe I was a little over the top with how I said that to him, yea, but it annoys me when people feed into dumb shit like this. I guess I'll go back to quietly boycotting it. and yes, using those donations to pull in some ad people would sit better with me. Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin. What in the fuck are you talking about? Fan generated content? Oh, im sorry they are abiding by copyright laws for their own well being. They are a business that needs to make profit; get that clear in your head. 95% of people dont mind paying $10 or so to support a very high quality stream with some of the best sc2 games in the world. You're second paragraph just makes you look like an asshole who can only argue by attacking someone. Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin. This made me laugh. 95% of people eh? I can smell where you pulled that number from. Not gonna bother responding to the rest of that because your arguments are either hypocritical, or it's you trying to convince yourself that it you weren't dumb for paying for it. Already went over this. Yes, i made that number to prove a point. The rest of your post is just garbage. Sorry, but how am i being a hypocrite or dumb for paying for something I THINK deserves my money. There are tons of people who work VERY hard to bring the content to the rest of the world. John would be my best example. Almost everyone on this site would agree; i guarantee. Would you say 95% of people on this site would agree with you? You seem to have some serious knowledge on demographics Marcus420. I'll break down what I meant since you insist on it. I don't think that there's anything wrong with donating to e-sports if you got the money to blow, but I think they should let the quality attract people rather than trying to restrict other options. They shoot themselves in the foot with exposure and we find other ways to watch it anyway if we really want to. + Show Spoiler +The hypocrite line was about how you made a post attacking me while accusing me of only knowing how to attack people in an argue. Didn't think it was so hard to notice. Wait wait wait, are you Actually arguing that they should not charge money for content?
Yea, see that's kinda how it is for most e-sports events. Including GSL for Koreans. Crazy I know! after that awsome tasteless marketting convinced you that it's something you should pay for. Read my other posts, I think I've made it clear enough what I'm trying to say. Gonna spare the repeat posts.
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I'm just happy that GSL is from like 10 to 13:20 live in Europe and not middle of the night as in USA. But be tiring to watch. I can wake up turn on my computer and sit only in my pants and duvet over me and watch some lovely high quality starcraft when i've woken up.
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United States17042 Posts
Go ahead and post this on the GSL forums, as they could actually make use of the idea...
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who the hell is voting NO seriously? Do you mind people getting entertained or what?
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I have bought season 2-current, never bought season 1 as I watched it live. Due to a new job I am unable to watch the whole stream every night even though it is on at a very reasonable time for me in Australia. I can't afford to stay up till possibly 10pm+ every night to watch the games when I have to be up and alert at 5am. This means I miss games because it's not at a convienient time for me. So...I buy the VOD's and watch at a convienient time for me. Simple. The 'live' experience comes down to people being too lazy to click the next set. So all you really need is a stream all option of a set for the vod's and the problem is solved.
There is absolutely no need for a restream. To everyone complaining and using the 'it will help e-sports grow argument', e-sports is growing, (NASL, MLG expanding), and there are a variety of free streams on at times that would be convienient for your 'friends' to watch and if not they can watch the VOD's at your place if they're interested, (I personally have had friends over to rewatch games to see if they were interested in buying a ticket of their own). I am getting quite sick of all these complaints saying that the stream only caters to Asia/China when the same applies for other large tournaments that cast in America/Germany/Sweeden and you see no huge threads complaining of stream times from anyone else about how there needs to be a restream.
Someone who cares enough and wants the button for play all, go suggest it to Gom. Otherwise go watch the free streams that all on at convienient times and stop the whinging, this thread pops up nearly every season and the same arguments get thrown back and you nearly ever poll comes back on a restream being needed but it never happens, because it's not really needed.
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On February 24 2011 06:09 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
Go ahead and post this on the GSL forums, as they could actually make use of the idea...
Is there anyway we can either remake this thread with a much more detailed OP highlighting this is not about getting the stream for free or either make a mod note on top to stop complaining about this?
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On February 24 2011 06:17 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 06:09 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
Go ahead and post this on the GSL forums, as they could actually make use of the idea... Is there anyway we can either remake this thread with a much more detailed OP highlighting this is not about getting the stream for free or either make a mod note on top to stop complaining about this?
But that's exactly what it is about, everyone keeps arguing that it would be more convienient whereas the VOD's are exactly that convienient and then you bash that idea because you want a play all button so go ask for one and then you can 'box,write etc' while it plays on your tv.
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live report thread + IRC + live stream + 5am = best...
non-live report thread + kinda IRC + delayed stream + whenever = boring... i'd rather have HQ vods
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The problem for me is, 2 a.m. or 4a.m. isn't so bad because I could just stay up late or wake up early to watch the matches with no issue for me in terms of obligations (work, school, etc.) moving the time kind of makes it actually harder to watch consistently. And yes, you could argue "get the Vods" but I could say the same to you.
But this is my own personal circumstance.
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Korea is happy with current broadcasting.
EU is ok with current broadcasting.
NA is crying about current broadcasting.
This is classic time zone problem.
How to solve this problem? Offer video on demand (VOD)!
You want more? Write GomTV to introduce playlist - play all VODs from selected date.
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Either wake/stay up until 4 AM or whatever time it is where you are or pay $10 to watch games whenever you want.
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On February 24 2011 06:07 Rah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 06:01 whiteguycash wrote:On February 24 2011 05:53 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 05:36 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 05:30 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 04:51 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 04:02 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:55 Assirra wrote:On February 24 2011 03:47 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:41 Marcus420 wrote:
[quote]
Nothing is free.
Deal with it. You are wrong. All I hear is "baaaahhhhh". Broodwar Vods are free, non korean SC2 tournies are free, GSL is free for Koreans dude. See a trend? Don't shoot the messenger. Sigh, do you have the act like that? GSL free for koreans? yea cause they have adds. adds make money, maybe gom should try to get some english/american adds aswell, it would be more enjoyable then just a blank screen during the pauses atleast. I dunno anything about brood war but did they had an international stream that was mend for the non-koreans inclusive professional casters/observer/interviews? if the answer is no, that argument fails aswell. On the international stream the answer is no, except for gom at one point who had a free one, or maybe just the vods, i forget. but for broodwar they also didn't use these "donations" you clowns pay to hire people to scour the web removing all fan generated content. There was a lot more selection on accessible commentators for big events. Maybe I was a little over the top with how I said that to him, yea, but it annoys me when people feed into dumb shit like this. I guess I'll go back to quietly boycotting it. and yes, using those donations to pull in some ad people would sit better with me. Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin. What in the fuck are you talking about? Fan generated content? Oh, im sorry they are abiding by copyright laws for their own well being. They are a business that needs to make profit; get that clear in your head. 95% of people dont mind paying $10 or so to support a very high quality stream with some of the best sc2 games in the world. You're second paragraph just makes you look like an asshole who can only argue by attacking someone. Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin. This made me laugh. 95% of people eh? I can smell where you pulled that number from. Not gonna bother responding to the rest of that because your arguments are either hypocritical, or it's you trying to convince yourself that it you weren't dumb for paying for it. Already went over this. Yes, i made that number to prove a point. The rest of your post is just garbage. Sorry, but how am i being a hypocrite or dumb for paying for something I THINK deserves my money. There are tons of people who work VERY hard to bring the content to the rest of the world. John would be my best example. Almost everyone on this site would agree; i guarantee. Would you say 95% of people on this site would agree with you? You seem to have some serious knowledge on demographics Marcus420. I'll break down what I meant since you insist on it. I don't think that there's anything wrong with donating to e-sports if you got the money to blow, but I think they should let the quality attract people rather than trying to restrict other options. They shoot themselves in the foot with exposure and we find other ways to watch it anyway if we really want to. + Show Spoiler +The hypocrite line was about how you made a post attacking me while accusing me of only knowing how to attack people in an argue. Didn't think it was so hard to notice. Wait wait wait, are you Actually arguing that they should not charge money for content? Yea, see that's kinda how it is for most e-sports events. Including GSL for Koreans. Crazy I know! after that awsome tasteless marketting convinced you that it's something you should pay for. Read my other posts, I think I've made it clear enough what I'm trying to say. Gonna spare the repeat posts.
Then apparently you misunderstand the way SOCIETY IN AND OF ITSELF FUNCTIONS.
There is no free lunch. Somebody somewhere is paying for it, and you expect the sponsor to foot the bill and invest without any return? They have no reason to operate in the red.
The reason Koreans don't have to pay for season tickets is because the advertisements are geared towards them, so the advertisers are willing to foot the bill for Koreans watching. Not so for foreigners, because Korean commercials don't market to foreigners.
I just can't believe that you have the audacity to think you are entitled to something free, not even mentioning the quality of the games, casters, production, and all the behind the scenes work that goes on.
You might think that we are "giving in to some huge marketing scheme and bowing down to the man," but I have a newsflash for you. Thats how the world works. You don't get something for nothing because its called STEALING and it is ILLEGAL.
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They would make absolutely no money if they did this. They can't do advertising for foreigners (forgot exact reason), so they rely on premium users for the English stream. Advertisers support the Korean streams.
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10am is fine by me actually. I usually have to go to university, but then again SC2 isn't that important to me anyway. If I hadn't lost my paypal password I'd occasionally pay for vods, too. 2-3 burgers less a month and you can already afford it.
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On February 24 2011 07:51 whiteguycash wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 06:07 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 06:01 whiteguycash wrote:On February 24 2011 05:53 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 05:36 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 05:30 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 04:51 Marcus420 wrote:On February 24 2011 04:02 Rah wrote:On February 24 2011 03:55 Assirra wrote:On February 24 2011 03:47 Rah wrote:
[quote]
All I hear is "baaaahhhhh". Broodwar Vods are free, non korean SC2 tournies are free, GSL is free for Koreans dude. See a trend? Don't shoot the messenger. Sigh, do you have the act like that? GSL free for koreans? yea cause they have adds. adds make money, maybe gom should try to get some english/american adds aswell, it would be more enjoyable then just a blank screen during the pauses atleast. I dunno anything about brood war but did they had an international stream that was mend for the non-koreans inclusive professional casters/observer/interviews? if the answer is no, that argument fails aswell. On the international stream the answer is no, except for gom at one point who had a free one, or maybe just the vods, i forget. but for broodwar they also didn't use these "donations" you clowns pay to hire people to scour the web removing all fan generated content. There was a lot more selection on accessible commentators for big events. Maybe I was a little over the top with how I said that to him, yea, but it annoys me when people feed into dumb shit like this. I guess I'll go back to quietly boycotting it. and yes, using those donations to pull in some ad people would sit better with me. Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin. What in the fuck are you talking about? Fan generated content? Oh, im sorry they are abiding by copyright laws for their own well being. They are a business that needs to make profit; get that clear in your head. 95% of people dont mind paying $10 or so to support a very high quality stream with some of the best sc2 games in the world. You're second paragraph just makes you look like an asshole who can only argue by attacking someone. Call me cheap, at least I ain't a sheep, all I'm sayin. This made me laugh. 95% of people eh? I can smell where you pulled that number from. Not gonna bother responding to the rest of that because your arguments are either hypocritical, or it's you trying to convince yourself that it you weren't dumb for paying for it. Already went over this. Yes, i made that number to prove a point. The rest of your post is just garbage. Sorry, but how am i being a hypocrite or dumb for paying for something I THINK deserves my money. There are tons of people who work VERY hard to bring the content to the rest of the world. John would be my best example. Almost everyone on this site would agree; i guarantee. Would you say 95% of people on this site would agree with you? You seem to have some serious knowledge on demographics Marcus420. I'll break down what I meant since you insist on it. I don't think that there's anything wrong with donating to e-sports if you got the money to blow, but I think they should let the quality attract people rather than trying to restrict other options. They shoot themselves in the foot with exposure and we find other ways to watch it anyway if we really want to. + Show Spoiler +The hypocrite line was about how you made a post attacking me while accusing me of only knowing how to attack people in an argue. Didn't think it was so hard to notice. Wait wait wait, are you Actually arguing that they should not charge money for content? Yea, see that's kinda how it is for most e-sports events. Including GSL for Koreans. Crazy I know! after that awsome tasteless marketting convinced you that it's something you should pay for. Read my other posts, I think I've made it clear enough what I'm trying to say. Gonna spare the repeat posts. Then apparently you misunderstand the way SOCIETY IN AND OF ITSELF FUNCTIONS. There is no free lunch. Somebody somewhere is paying for it, and you expect the sponsor to foot the bill and invest without any return? They have no reason to operate in the red. The reason Koreans don't have to pay for season tickets is because the advertisements are geared towards them, so the advertisers are willing to foot the bill for Koreans watching. Not so for foreigners, because Korean commercials don't market to foreigners. I just can't believe that you have the audacity to think you are entitled to something free, not even mentioning the quality of the games, casters, production, and all the behind the scenes work that goes on. You might think that we are "giving in to some huge marketing scheme and bowing down to the man," but I have a newsflash for you. Thats how the world works. You don't get something for nothing because its called STEALING and it is ILLEGAL.
very dramatic justification thread there. I won't argue man, glad those HD vods are worth it for you.
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On February 24 2011 06:17 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 06:09 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
Go ahead and post this on the GSL forums, as they could actually make use of the idea... Is there anyway we can either remake this thread with a much more detailed OP highlighting this is not about getting the stream for free or either make a mod note on top to stop complaining about this?
Except the whole point of the thread is to get the stream for free. Otherwise people can just pay for the VOD and watch it at the "restream" time.
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This thread fails so bad, and it has nothing to do with the OP, which is pretty reasonable if you read it.
- The OP is not trying to get something for nothing
- The point of this thread is that restreaming once will boost viewership in the US, which is true, because some people can't see the live broadcast and can't afford the VODs
- Boosting viewership benefits GOM because it benefits sponsors such as Intel and Sony, and would benefit them even more if they could run region-specific ads
- It is not about getting a free lunch because getting more viewers benefits GOM, the viewers, and the sport
- Restreaming is not the same as making the VODs free -- the restream would happen only once and to watch the VODs at any other time would still require the subscription fee
The OPs idea is to benefit GOM by boosting viewership in the US. This is good for US esports because it would help GOM connect with US advertisers. Ultimately, this might mean that the entire service could be free in the US as it is in Korea. How would that be a bad thing for anyone?
People who can't understand these points, please reread the OP and stop derailing the thread.
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On February 24 2011 08:25 GagnarTheUnruly wrote:
This thread fails so bad, and it has nothing to do with the OP, which is pretty reasonable if you read it.
- The OP is not trying to get something for nothing
- The point of this thread is that restreaming once will boost viewership in the US, which is true, because some people can't see the live broadcast and can't afford the VODs
- Boosting viewership benefits GOM because it benefits sponsors such as Intel and Sony, and would benefit them even more if they could run region-specific ads
- It is not about getting a free lunch because getting more viewers benefits GOM, the viewers, and the sport
- Restreaming is not the same as making the VODs free -- the restream would happen only once and to watch the VODs at any other time would still require the subscription fee
The OPs idea is to benefit GOM by boosting viewership in the US. This is good for US esports because it would help GOM connect with US advertisers. Ultimately, this might mean that the entire service could be free in the US as it is in Korea. How would that be a bad thing for anyone?
People who can't understand these points, please reread the OP and stop derailing the thread.
Ppl understand but don't forget, when they will restream at decent hours (for US) they WILL lose premium tickets because a lot of those are exactly cause it are those hours and ppl buy it for the VODS.
The OP's intentions might be right and all but you need to see the 2sides of the coin here.
They will lose premium tickets and gain sponsorship and more viewership.
Its to GOM to decide if they want to take the "risk" of setting it up and making sure it works like it should. Don't forget that it is god knows what hour in the night is during cause of the wonderfull time system.
I would fully support this but to say they don't lose anything is simply wrong.
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On February 24 2011 09:07 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 08:25 GagnarTheUnruly wrote:
This thread fails so bad, and it has nothing to do with the OP, which is pretty reasonable if you read it.
- The OP is not trying to get something for nothing
- The point of this thread is that restreaming once will boost viewership in the US, which is true, because some people can't see the live broadcast and can't afford the VODs
- Boosting viewership benefits GOM because it benefits sponsors such as Intel and Sony, and would benefit them even more if they could run region-specific ads
- It is not about getting a free lunch because getting more viewers benefits GOM, the viewers, and the sport
- Restreaming is not the same as making the VODs free -- the restream would happen only once and to watch the VODs at any other time would still require the subscription fee
The OPs idea is to benefit GOM by boosting viewership in the US. This is good for US esports because it would help GOM connect with US advertisers. Ultimately, this might mean that the entire service could be free in the US as it is in Korea. How would that be a bad thing for anyone?
People who can't understand these points, please reread the OP and stop derailing the thread. Ppl understand but don't forget, when they will restream at decent hours (for US) they WILL lose premium tickets because a lot of those are exactly cause it are those hours and ppl buy it for the VODS. The OP's intentions might be right and all but you need to see the 2sides of the coin here. They will lose premium tickets and gain sponsorship and more viewership. Its to GOM to decide if they want to take the "risk" of setting it up and making sure it works like it should. Don't forget that it is god knows what hour in the night is during cause of the wonderfull time system. I would fully support this but to say they don't lose anything is simply wrong.
Imagine if teamliquid.net cost 10 dollars a month to view.
They would skyrocket in earnings.
The negative effect though is a cut of their relevance, and reddit sc / alternatives would spring up filling their void.
The idea is that those competitors to GomTV are beginning to appear. It makes sense to solidify their position as the best tournament in the world by restreaming once for USA timezones and once for EU primetime.
It's for a lot of different reasons, more exposure in those markets is overall good for gomtv.
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Restream is probably a good idea if they can somehow get some advertising into it to recoup and losses from restreaming costs.
I would imagine most of the hardcore fans who watch early in the morning will still watch it at that time, since that's pretty much the bees knees right there. The restream will be for expanding the audience. I'm pretty confident the extra exposure from a restream will help premium service sales overall.
Maybe they can try to do a restream of some of the shows to gauge the feasibility of this. One restream per week or something, and try to get the word out to the fans to tell their friends to check out the restream whenever it airs. In my opinion, watching the whole show is way more awesome than just 1 set, so maybe it will entice users to get the premium service.
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That would be nice, but seeing how VODs are ridiculously cheap already and some people are dedicated to watching the stream, I don't think its necessary for GOM to restream.
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I do imagine the free viewers are going to stop bothering with the GSL once there's major tournaments being broadcast at normal NA hours. Having to stay awake until 4 to watch the GSL sucks and I don't have time for it. If I can I try to catch restreams elsewhere but with NASL I doubt I'll bother.
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Some people say it is not about "wanting for free", but what is it then? If for one-time fee of $10 you can watch it all in much better quality (much better than the HQ stream!) on demand!
So why exactly would a restream be better than this, except for the fact that you would get the content for free?
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On February 24 2011 07:42 fds wrote:
Korea is happy with current broadcasting.
EU is ok with current broadcasting.
NA is crying about current broadcasting.
This is classic time zone problem.
How to solve this problem? Offer video on demand (VOD)!
You want more? Write GomTV to introduce playlist - play all VODs from selected date.
How the fuck is anyone with a "normal" Job in Europe happy with the Broadcasting times?
If there is an important/very interesting game in the middle of the night i can get up or stay up.
If there is an important/very interesting game in the middle of the day i can either not watch it or take holydays...
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resteram EU/USA means that it's not live stream. It's vods. If you can't watch GSL live, just pay seasonal and watch the vods. If you want to watch vods without paying gomtv, just google and find the restream online.
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If you guys really want this you need to make threads/posts on the GOMtv forums.
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EPT
