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On March 26 2013 09:38 Doodsmack wrote:
Why don't we lose points for ladder losses any more? Does that mean that having the same amount of wins as someone else will guarantee that your point total is equal? So someone with a low win % could have the same point total as someone with a higher win %?
Your bonus points offset losses now, as well as doubling your points awarded for wins, until your bonus pool is down to 0.
All this means is that you get to 0 bonus pool faster. It doesn't cause you to wind up at a different place on the ladder (unless you're someone who wasn't playing enough to use up your bonus pool in the first place.)
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Strange thing in HOTS: Was mid plat, i played a lot as unranked game vs mostly plat ratio 60% win.
Then i played ranked : first match vs a diam, I won --> directly got promoted to diam, i though damm gonna be hard to maintain, then I played another match and here vs a master, i won--> again directly got promoted to master. WTF!!
In 2 games i went from mid plat to master. Something is wrong....
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I would say a 60% win ratio is better than you thought it was.
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Alright, there something not normal going on with the matchmaking system. I started out in bronze. Excluding placement matches I faced 8 bronze and 9 unranked. After that I was promoted to silver. My win ratio (excluding placement) was 47%.
In silver I faced 71 silver 5 unranked 2 gold and 1 bronze. Win ratio: 53%.
Then I was promoted to gold. I had not seen a gold opponent for 42 games. Now I was really suspicious. I decided to leave a few games, in the name of science. Here were my opponents:
Gold, gold, gold, silver, gold, gold.
I'm aware of the obfuscation unranked games causes, but I have carefully kept a record of my games for years, and the above behavior is not normal.
1: The promotions without facing higher league opponents.
2: Only getting matched against people in my own league.
Keep an eye open. I want to know what is happening here.
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On March 16 2013 09:37 mind1337 wrote:
I don't know if it belongs to this thread.
I just found out something that you guys certainly already know, but people playing unraked games can get matched with people playing ranked, wich I think is completely retarded because of the fact that when a player plays unranked games, there's a chance he won't play his usual style and try out new strategies instead, hence failing more than he would when playing ladder games.
A player who only plays ladder games and say, meets 60% of players playing unranked games will have a higher rank than a same skilled ladder player who meets 40% of players playing unranked.
Imo, this breaks the ladder system and Blizzard should set up different matchmaking pools for both ranked and unranked matches.
Unranked players will still get their win loss equalized. If you're playing like a troll, the skill of your opponents will drop to compensate. And it's not like people didn't do crazy shit all the time before unranked.
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On March 31 2013 02:17 Mendelfist wrote:
Alright, there something not normal going on with the matchmaking system. I started out in bronze. Excluding placement matches I faced 8 bronze and 9 unranked. After that I was promoted to silver. My win ratio (excluding placement) was 47%.
In silver I faced 71 silver 5 unranked 2 gold and 1 bronze. Win ratio: 53%.
Then I was promoted to gold. I had not seen a gold opponent for 42 games. Now I was really suspicious. I decided to leave a few games, in the name of science. Here were my opponents:
Gold, gold, gold, silver, gold, gold.
I'm aware of the obfuscation unranked games causes, but I have carefully kept a record of my games for years, and the above behavior is not normal.
1: The promotions without facing higher league opponents.
2: Only getting matched against people in my own league.
Keep an eye open. I want to know what is happening here.
Well, if the silvers you were playing were high level silvers, then you MMR would still be high enough consistently to be promoted. Many high silvers have the MMR of low golds.
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On April 01 2013 02:32 Level10Peon wrote:
Well, if the silvers you were playing were high level silvers, then you MMR would still be high enough consistently to be promoted. Many high silvers have the MMR of low golds.
Not a single gold for 42 games, and then directly after promotion only golds, even when losing every game? No sorry, it doesn't add up.
I'm suspecting a change to the matchmaking system. There has been a lot of complaints on the forums about "why am I being matched up against people outside my league?" This may be a response to that, but I'm not sure I like it. Anyway, if it's true, one positive thing you may say about it is that promotion becomes more meaningful, if it also changes the MMR range of your opponents.It's hard for me at my level to judge my opponents skill, but it does feel like it.
After 16 games, 14 were gold, so this is more than a coincidence.
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United States12265 Posts
On April 01 2013 03:25 Mendelfist wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2013 02:32 Level10Peon wrote:
Well, if the silvers you were playing were high level silvers, then you MMR would still be high enough consistently to be promoted. Many high silvers have the MMR of low golds. Not a single gold for 42 games, and then directly after promotion only golds, even when losing every game? No sorry, it doesn't add up. I'm suspecting a change to the matchmaking system. There has been a lot of complaints on the forums about "why am I being matched up against people outside my league?" This may be a response to that, but I'm not sure I like it. Anyway, if it's true, one positive thing you may say about it is that promotion becomes more meaningful, if it also changes the MMR range of your opponents.It's hard for me at my level to judge my opponents skill, but it does feel like it. After 16 games, 14 were gold, so this is more than a coincidence.
That just wouldn't make sense though. In order to get promoted you have to prove that you're capable of handling the players in your new league, so it wouldn't fit that they'd suddenly change it to promoting you pre-emptively. I admit I've seen a lot of strange matchup reports, like a Platinum guy who plays other Platinum guys then suddenly being matched against a Grandmaster who plays Master/GM people (and earning/losing an expected number of points for such a matchup). I also admit your anecdote is bizarre and unexpected, and I recognize that you've been right there with me on the forefront of decrypting the black box with your detailed match history. Maybe there is something bigger going on, but I haven't heard a word of it. I've been trying to get some answers but with my primary contact gone and a lot of the team probably just now returning from post-launch vacation, I haven't had any luck yet. I'll bring this up once I have a new contact and we'll see if it's just our imaginations running wild.
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On April 01 2013 15:27 Excalibur_Z wrote:
That just wouldn't make sense though. In order to get promoted you have to prove that you're capable of handling the players in your new league, so it wouldn't fit that they'd suddenly change it to promoting you pre-emptively.
I've thought a bit about that. It is possible for the matchmaking system to judge my MMR by only matching me against players with lower MMR, so "testing" against higher league players is not strictly necessary. For example, a player with MMR 1100 should have a win ratio of 64% against a 1000 MMR player. But I'm not sure my opponents really are stronger after my promotion. That could be my imagination.
It would be very interesting to see what would happen if I got demoted again. It wouldn't be very fun playing like that though. I'll think about it.
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It has been extremely weird for me as well: Got placed in silver, played some silvers (won vs all i think), got promoted to gold, PLAYED FIVE MASTERS IN A ROW (went 1-4), got promoted to plat (after winning vs the fifth master), played 4 plats (went 3-1), got promoted to dia, playing diamonds ever since. yeah
One more thing before I forget, might be important: I played the first master while playing unranked, then switched to ranked and faced master players there. before that everything seemed to be in order. i think there might be some kind of connection or correlation.
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On April 01 2013 15:59 Mendelfist wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2013 15:27 Excalibur_Z wrote:
That just wouldn't make sense though. In order to get promoted you have to prove that you're capable of handling the players in your new league, so it wouldn't fit that they'd suddenly change it to promoting you pre-emptively. I've thought a bit about that. It is possible for the matchmaking system to judge my MMR by only matching me against players with lower MMR, so "testing" against higher league players is not strictly necessary. For example, a player with MMR 1100 should have a win ratio of 64% against a 1000 MMR player. But I'm not sure my opponents really are stronger after my promotion. That could be my imagination.
It's true that the system can evaluate your MMR the way you describe, but it would present problems if the entire population were divided into disjoint segments that never played each other, because there would be no information collected on how the segments compare to each other.
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United States12265 Posts
On April 01 2013 23:59 Harrad wrote:
It has been extremely weird for me as well: Got placed in silver, played some silvers (won vs all i think), got promoted to gold, PLAYED FIVE MASTERS IN A ROW (went 1-4), got promoted to plat (after winning vs the fifth master), played 4 plats (went 3-1), got promoted to dia, playing diamonds ever since. yeah
One more thing before I forget, might be important: I played the first master while playing unranked, then switched to ranked and faced master players there. before that everything seemed to be in order. i think there might be some kind of connection or correlation.
I'm always skeptical of reports like these, and when they're made on the Bnet forums I can at least look up the poster's match history in-game to verify. Usually, they're looking at a player's highest career finish rather than his actual current league. Are you sure that they were currently in Master league and that it was a Ranked game for them and that they had been playing other Master league players in Ranked before the game against you?
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On April 02 2013 00:34 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2013 23:59 Harrad wrote:
It has been extremely weird for me as well: Got placed in silver, played some silvers (won vs all i think), got promoted to gold, PLAYED FIVE MASTERS IN A ROW (went 1-4), got promoted to plat (after winning vs the fifth master), played 4 plats (went 3-1), got promoted to dia, playing diamonds ever since. yeah
One more thing before I forget, might be important: I played the first master while playing unranked, then switched to ranked and faced master players there. before that everything seemed to be in order. i think there might be some kind of connection or correlation. I'm always skeptical of reports like these, and when they're made on the Bnet forums I can at least look up the poster's match history in-game to verify. Usually, they're looking at a player's highest career finish rather than his actual current league. Are you sure that they were currently in Master league and that it was a Ranked game for them and that they had been playing other Master league players in Ranked before the game against you?
I understand you're skeptical, but they were really all in master, as in their portrait had the master border and they were placed in master league at the time i played them, and yes it was ranked for them, i specifically asked. Most were fresh master players though, as in it was their first season in master. The difference in mmr becomes evident by the amounts of points i lost (-0, -3, -6). If you wish I could go back in my match history and make screenshots.
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On April 02 2013 00:05 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2013 15:59 Mendelfist wrote:On April 01 2013 15:27 Excalibur_Z wrote:
That just wouldn't make sense though. In order to get promoted you have to prove that you're capable of handling the players in your new league, so it wouldn't fit that they'd suddenly change it to promoting you pre-emptively. I've thought a bit about that. It is possible for the matchmaking system to judge my MMR by only matching me against players with lower MMR, so "testing" against higher league players is not strictly necessary. For example, a player with MMR 1100 should have a win ratio of 64% against a 1000 MMR player. But I'm not sure my opponents really are stronger after my promotion. That could be my imagination. It's true that the system can evaluate your MMR the way you describe, but it would present problems if the entire population were divided into disjoint segments that never played each other, because there would be no information collected on how the segments compare to each other.
Yes, you have a point, but I do get matched up against other leagues. It just happens rarely.
In my self-sacrifice for the common good, I have started my quest for demotion to silver. Here are the statistics so far:
47 games, 15 wins, 32 losses. Opponents: 3 unranked, 2 bronze, 3 silver, 36 gold and 3 platinum. There has been no change in my opponents league whatsoever.
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United States12265 Posts
On April 02 2013 00:41 Harrad wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 00:34 Excalibur_Z wrote:On April 01 2013 23:59 Harrad wrote:
It has been extremely weird for me as well: Got placed in silver, played some silvers (won vs all i think), got promoted to gold, PLAYED FIVE MASTERS IN A ROW (went 1-4), got promoted to plat (after winning vs the fifth master), played 4 plats (went 3-1), got promoted to dia, playing diamonds ever since. yeah
One more thing before I forget, might be important: I played the first master while playing unranked, then switched to ranked and faced master players there. before that everything seemed to be in order. i think there might be some kind of connection or correlation. I'm always skeptical of reports like these, and when they're made on the Bnet forums I can at least look up the poster's match history in-game to verify. Usually, they're looking at a player's highest career finish rather than his actual current league. Are you sure that they were currently in Master league and that it was a Ranked game for them and that they had been playing other Master league players in Ranked before the game against you? I understand you're skeptical, but they were really all in master, as in their portrait had the master border and they were placed in master league at the time i played them, and yes it was ranked for them, i specifically asked. Most were fresh master players though, as in it was their first season in master. The difference in mmr becomes evident by the amounts of points i lost (-0, -3, -6). If you wish I could go back in my match history and make screenshots.
What's your username and identifier, and on which server? I can just look it up for myself.
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On April 02 2013 12:00 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 00:41 Harrad wrote:On April 02 2013 00:34 Excalibur_Z wrote:On April 01 2013 23:59 Harrad wrote:
It has been extremely weird for me as well: Got placed in silver, played some silvers (won vs all i think), got promoted to gold, PLAYED FIVE MASTERS IN A ROW (went 1-4), got promoted to plat (after winning vs the fifth master), played 4 plats (went 3-1), got promoted to dia, playing diamonds ever since. yeah
One more thing before I forget, might be important: I played the first master while playing unranked, then switched to ranked and faced master players there. before that everything seemed to be in order. i think there might be some kind of connection or correlation. I'm always skeptical of reports like these, and when they're made on the Bnet forums I can at least look up the poster's match history in-game to verify. Usually, they're looking at a player's highest career finish rather than his actual current league. Are you sure that they were currently in Master league and that it was a Ranked game for them and that they had been playing other Master league players in Ranked before the game against you? I understand you're skeptical, but they were really all in master, as in their portrait had the master border and they were placed in master league at the time i played them, and yes it was ranked for them, i specifically asked. Most were fresh master players though, as in it was their first season in master. The difference in mmr becomes evident by the amounts of points i lost (-0, -3, -6). If you wish I could go back in my match history and make screenshots. What's your username and identifier, and on which server? I can just look it up for myself.
It's Harajuku.450 on EU. not sure if you can scroll back far enough at this point though. The important thing is that there was a very sudden MMR spike seemingly out of nowhere.
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United States12265 Posts
On April 02 2013 12:55 Harrad wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 12:00 Excalibur_Z wrote:On April 02 2013 00:41 Harrad wrote:On April 02 2013 00:34 Excalibur_Z wrote:On April 01 2013 23:59 Harrad wrote:
It has been extremely weird for me as well: Got placed in silver, played some silvers (won vs all i think), got promoted to gold, PLAYED FIVE MASTERS IN A ROW (went 1-4), got promoted to plat (after winning vs the fifth master), played 4 plats (went 3-1), got promoted to dia, playing diamonds ever since. yeah
One more thing before I forget, might be important: I played the first master while playing unranked, then switched to ranked and faced master players there. before that everything seemed to be in order. i think there might be some kind of connection or correlation. I'm always skeptical of reports like these, and when they're made on the Bnet forums I can at least look up the poster's match history in-game to verify. Usually, they're looking at a player's highest career finish rather than his actual current league. Are you sure that they were currently in Master league and that it was a Ranked game for them and that they had been playing other Master league players in Ranked before the game against you? I understand you're skeptical, but they were really all in master, as in their portrait had the master border and they were placed in master league at the time i played them, and yes it was ranked for them, i specifically asked. Most were fresh master players though, as in it was their first season in master. The difference in mmr becomes evident by the amounts of points i lost (-0, -3, -6). If you wish I could go back in my match history and make screenshots. What's your username and identifier, and on which server? I can just look it up for myself. It's Harajuku.450 on EU. not sure if you can scroll back far enough at this point though. The important thing is that there was a very sudden MMR spike seemingly out of nowhere.
Ugh, patch released today and I can't log into EU. Usually a day or two is fine to check back on match histories because many players don't play more than a few games a day, but beyond that it can get murky. I probably won't be able to get accurate results now =(
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Excalibur~ wtf is going on with promotions right now? I just watched a guy who played 2 masters in his last 17 1v1 games get promoted to masters. He won 1, lost 1 vs them. In the 5 games leading up to his promotion he was playing plats and low diamonds.
I understand that the MMR is more important than the league ranking, but you didn't promote to Masters in WoL pairing with only 2 masters in 17 games.
Even my own promotion to masters seems questionable. I played a GM who got 10 pts off me the game before I promoted. Strange considering I never promoted to masters in WoL, although I was playing and beating quite a few WoL masters.
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EPT
