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United States12267 Posts
On January 11 2012 18:10 necroticah wrote:
I have an interesting question for us lower end noobs:
1.) I was Gold for a long time. Towards the end of Season 2 and during Season 3 and Season 4 I hit a slump and lost a butt-ton of games. Then in Season 4 I have been matched with Bronze players and Silver Players that were slightly favoured against. (I understand it was their MMR vs. my points that made that happen.) However the gist of this post is:
Season 5 hits and I got demoted to Silver and I only played against Slightly favoured and Favoured opponents and they ended up in Platinum and Gold leagues. until I finally (after about 9/10 wins) was even-matched against bronze players, then as time went on I played against even-matched Silver, then even-matched Gold, then some even-matched Platinum until I got promoted to Gold League (Division Marauder Rho, if it matters and I dunno the Tier.)
After this happened, I once again only played vs. Slightly Favoured and Favoured player and they were in Gold Leagues and a couple in Platinum with one being in Silver(top8). Now I only play against Even-matched players in Gold and Platinum.
Does this mean that I'm climbing extremely fast? If so, why did I face the favoured opponents when I just enter a league and after around 8-10 games it starts to stabilize (even with wins and losses)?
Funny thing is, I started at a much lower win ratio in Silver. My win ratio is about ~70% now. (can't tell how many games (not more than 110, though))
2.) Also, I'm just getting clarification: If I earn 14 points for a win and my opponent loses 10 points for that loss, does that mean we're of same Tier?
1. The exact rates of change aren't known. We can draw some inferences from recorded data, though. For example, a new account who wins 100% of his games will earn points like +24 +24 +24 +24 +23 +23 +22 +21, and so on. On the other hand, a Master player who loses all his games (say, to get to Bronze) would have a match history that looks like this: -12 -11 -11 -10 -10 -9 -9 -9 -8 -8 -8 -8 -12 -11 -11 -10 -10 -9, or -0 -0 -0 -0 -12 -11 -11 -10 -10. We can infer that the -12 in the middle occurred after a demotion because of the point reset for changing leagues.
2. It doesn't mean you're of the same tier necessarily, it means your points are lower than his MMR and his points are lower than your MMR to the same degree. For example: APts 10 BMMR 100 BPts 10 AMMR 100.
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I see, that makes sense. Thanks Excalibur_Z, you're doing a great jawb!
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I have played something like 130 games, beating silver league players heaps of times.
But im still in bronze for some reason, ranked 2nd behind some person with around 3000 wins.
What the hell is wrong? I play with my diamond league friend and beat him.
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Can you get promoted after a loss?
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On January 13 2012 14:16 jw232 wrote:
Can you get promoted after a loss?
Yes
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On January 13 2012 14:22 Azzur wrote:Yes
demoted after a win as well 
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On December 30 2011 09:27 ToKoreaWithLove wrote:
I was wondering why I keep being stuck in Silver. I only play 2v2s or 3v3s, but our MMR sees us facing high plat / low diamond most matches, yet we never seem to advance to gold. And we have a positive win ratio.
How are advancements determined?
Thanks!
Unless they changed team games since I last played I assume you are playing high plat / low diamond "random teams" while you're in a silver arranged team.
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Hi, this is a noob question (I am a noob after all, started playing about 3 weeks ago), but it seemed strange to me.
I'm in silver league and when laddering, I was matched against someone in the platinum league. Seems like a rather big difference to me, how is that possible?
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Great resource, thank you for putting in the work.
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Not even going to lie, that was freaking awesome. I took the time to read the whole thing cause it was that great! Props to you for making that!
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On January 17 2012 02:11 GoingGoingGone wrote:
Hi, this is a noob question (I am a noob after all, started playing about 3 weeks ago), but it seemed strange to me.
I'm in silver league and when laddering, I was matched against someone in the platinum league. Seems like a rather big difference to me, how is that possible? That just tells you that you have a high MMR
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I have a question regarding how severe a losing streak must be to disrupt your chances at breaching the confidence buffer. I am 37-20 over the past week. This includes some rather lengthy winning streaks and no losing streaks longer than 2 games. I went from rank 20 something platinum to rank 1 and having been facing diamond and "gold star" platinums almost exclusively for the past 20. However, last night i went 7-6 and this included a 4 game losing streak. I broke the losing streak with a win (against a diamond) and ended the night there. How detrimental is the 4 game losing streak to the MMR I have built and my chance at a promotion?
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On January 18 2012 17:34 Yndigo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 02:11 GoingGoingGone wrote:
Hi, this is a noob question (I am a noob after all, started playing about 3 weeks ago), but it seemed strange to me.
I'm in silver league and when laddering, I was matched against someone in the platinum league. Seems like a rather big difference to me, how is that possible? That just tells you that you have a high MMR
If he were playing all plats then yes his MMR is probably high for silver. If he only played one plat then most likely the plat was either purposely losing his matches or learning a new race. I also doubt that someone who just started playing about 3 weeks ago would already be at a plat skill level.
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Just a general question and I apologize if it has already been addressed in this thread but does the threshold MMR for promotion change as the season progresses? For example, last season I was gold and then at the beginning of this season I was placed into silver. I then played about 100 or so games at about a 50-51% win rate and was promoted to gold. I do not think I have gotten any better or worse since the end of last season up until now so I am unsure as to why I was demoted at the beginning of the season. The only thing I can think of is that at the beginning of the season since the player pool is smaller, the MMR cut off for each league is higher than it was at the end of last season.
Let's assume that my skill level was average for a population of 1000 and thus my MMR was something like 500, at the end of last season. Let's also assume that the gold population consists of the 40th-60th percentiles, so basically those with an MMR of 400 to 600.
At the beginning of this season, let assume the population was only 500, so the 40th to 60th percentile would now include players with the 200th-300th MMRs which now correspond to absolute MMRs of 700-800. As the season progresses, the population would increase and the absolute MMR threshold for gold would eventually revert back to 400-600. This could explain why I was demoted the beginning of the season and then promoted in the middle of the season even though my skill level remained constant. This is just an opinion so I wouldn't mind anyone pointing out any errors in my thought process.
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United States12267 Posts
On January 21 2012 04:21 Average Joe wrote:
Just a general question and I apologize if it has already been addressed in this thread but does the threshold MMR for promotion change as the season progresses? For example, last season I was gold and then at the beginning of this season I was placed into silver. I then played about 100 or so games at about a 50-51% win rate and was promoted to gold. I do not think I got any better or worse since the end of last season until now so I am unsure as to why I was demoted at the beginning of the season. The only thing I can think of is that at the beginning of the season since the player pool is smaller, the MMR cut off for each league is higher than it was at the end of last season.
Let's assume that my skill level was average for a population of 1000 and thus my MMR was something like 500, at the end of last season. Let's assume that the gold population consists of the 40th-60th percentiles, so basically those with an MMR of 400 to 600.
At the beginning of this season, let assume the population was only 500, so the 40th to 60th percentile would be now be those with the 200th-300th MMRs which would now be those with an absolute MMR of 700-800. As the season progresses, the population would increase and thus the MMR threshold for gold would revert back to 400-600. This could explain why I was demoted the beginning of the season and then promoted in the middle of the season but I wouldn't mind anyone pointing out why or how I am completely wrong in my thought process.
No, you're correct. Blizzard has the ability to adjust the thresholds manually as necessary in order to realize the target population distribution. Their methodology is probably similar to what you've described (it would make sense to me to do it that way). They will do this mid-season when necessary (everyone remembers the so-called "Promotion Day" from the middle of Season 2 where the boundaries were shifted fairly radically), but I would guess that most mid-season adjustments are probably minor.
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On January 21 2012 05:27 Excalibur_Z wrote:
No, you're correct. Blizzard has the ability to adjust the thresholds manually as necessary in order to realize the target population distribution. Their methodology is probably similar to what you've described (it would make sense to me to do it that way). They will do this mid-season when necessary (everyone remembers the so-called "Promotion Day" from the middle of Season 2 where the boundaries were shifted fairly radically), but I would guess that most mid-season adjustments are probably minor.
I've been thinking about this. I haven't seen any obvious league threshold adjustments. I may have missed some, but I don't think that's what's going on.
A matchmaking system needs some sort of "anchor". Otherwise the MMRs of the entire population could drift up or down without control. Blizzard decided to implement this anchor as an MMR cap. In other words they use the best players on the ladder as anchors. They play a lot and their skill probably doesn't change quickly, so they are good for this.
But as you remember from our previous discussion, the MMR difference between two players is directly related to their skill difference. New players are still newbies, but the best players get better and better. The skill range gets stretched out over time, and so must the MMR range. If the best players MMRs are fixed by the MMR cap, it will push all the other players downwards. That's what's happening.
I think this implementation is a terribly bad idea. It is very discouraging. The MMR range should be anchored at the bottom, not at the top. Blizzard could then add new leagues at the top as masters fill up more and more, and that would much more accurately reflect the actual skill change of the population. An effect of the current system is that the downwards push of the population counters the fact that many bronze players stop playing. Blizzard probably thinks this is convenient. I think it's just bad. Being demoted despite practicing and getting better is not an incentive to keep playing.
But all this is just my theory of how it works, of course.
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On January 21 2012 05:27 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 04:21 Average Joe wrote:
Just a general question and I apologize if it has already been addressed in this thread but does the threshold MMR for promotion change as the season progresses? For example, last season I was gold and then at the beginning of this season I was placed into silver. I then played about 100 or so games at about a 50-51% win rate and was promoted to gold. I do not think I got any better or worse since the end of last season until now so I am unsure as to why I was demoted at the beginning of the season. The only thing I can think of is that at the beginning of the season since the player pool is smaller, the MMR cut off for each league is higher than it was at the end of last season.
Let's assume that my skill level was average for a population of 1000 and thus my MMR was something like 500, at the end of last season. Let's assume that the gold population consists of the 40th-60th percentiles, so basically those with an MMR of 400 to 600.
At the beginning of this season, let assume the population was only 500, so the 40th to 60th percentile would be now be those with the 200th-300th MMRs which would now be those with an absolute MMR of 700-800. As the season progresses, the population would increase and thus the MMR threshold for gold would revert back to 400-600. This could explain why I was demoted the beginning of the season and then promoted in the middle of the season but I wouldn't mind anyone pointing out why or how I am completely wrong in my thought process. No, you're correct. Blizzard has the ability to adjust the thresholds manually as necessary in order to realize the target population distribution. Their methodology is probably similar to what you've described (it would make sense to me to do it that way). They will do this mid-season when necessary (everyone remembers the so-called "Promotion Day" from the middle of Season 2 where the boundaries were shifted fairly radically), but I would guess that most mid-season adjustments are probably minor.
Thank you for all the hard work you have put forth in the TL and Bnet forums.
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On January 17 2012 02:11 GoingGoingGone wrote:
Hi, this is a noob question (I am a noob after all, started playing about 3 weeks ago), but it seemed strange to me.
I'm in silver league and when laddering, I was matched against someone in the platinum league. Seems like a rather big difference to me, how is that possible?
I got placed into platinum after playing this game for 2 days and then got constantly shit on until it was matching me with silver players, you probably played me!
Now that I know a few builds I'm starting to get matched against plat players again though 
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hi i am rank #1 diamond on Eu ladder
http://sc2ranks.com/eu/178867/Perser
i read the thread and i understand the conecept behind mmr and stuff
can somebody tell me how much i must win or how far/close i am from master leauge ?
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EPT
