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Hey!
First of all:
Before I started playing SC2 i played alot of FPS like Battlefield etc. My last RTS was C&C Red alert or so 
Because of that and because I found Standard hotkeys very random (Mutas T for example), I started to use the Grid. It was very good to lern to play with hotkeys and to play some games offrace. There were some hotkeys with a bad position. For example T = Attack move R = patrol. So it happens that I klicked patrol behind the enemies army...
But with the Custom Hotkeys i made Space as alternative key to T.
After I watched Day9 daily #252 (About Hotkey minimap and so on) I thought about switching to Standard because it seems to have a better gameplay. I think you have more keys for shortcuts because the hand is more centered at the keyboard and not only at the left side.
I tried a view games against the KI to get familar with the standard.
but it was so worse... On Grid you build workers by qq (q build units + q for drones) now on Standard I had less drones and alot of queens :D
And even if i try to concentrate on the new hotkeys I pressed the wrong keys and didn't get to it. I think i get a more habit of my hotkey layout then i thought. What does not mean that it is bad. (Hope you understand what I mean  )
Soooo to my questions:
How do you lerned the standard hotkeys?
Is it worth to switch from Grid to Standard?
To the Grid players:
How do you position your hand?
Do you use F5-F8 and 6-0?
Thanks in advance 
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very good decision because as you stated playing with the grid ist just bad. There are tons of bad key placements and way more missclicks happen afterall. There is only one bad hotkey for non grid users and its Immortal on I but you can switch that to X or whatever you want and you should have way less missclicks after all.
/e you can turn on that the letter you have to press to appear on the UI. I thought the regular hotkey setup was very intuitive some of the hotkeys i had to learn because you rarely ever use them e.g. Neural Parasite = E.
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I think grid hotkeys are far superior to the standard ones. and now that you can customize them, it's even better.
I basically use the standard grid hotkeys but changed attack-move back to 'a' and set the location hotkeys to F2-F6.
so I use F1-F6 ( mostly just F2 and F3  ) and 1-7. 6 and 7 are robo and stargate.
grid is just so much more effective.
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Shrug, I don't have any problems using grid. I've actually got F1 and F2 as army hotkeys 9 & 0, and F3-F6 as map hotkeys. None of the keys were difficult to press though, even before custom hotkeys were implemented. On the contrary, it's so much easier to hit Ctrl and Shift when your pinky is naturally there all the time. I would never want to switch.
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On February 07 2011 20:02 idonthinksobro wrote:
very good decision because as you stated playing with the grid ist just bad. There are tons of bad key placements and way more missclicks happen afterall. There is only one bad hotkey for non grid users and its Immortal on I but you can switch that to X or whatever you want and you should have way less missclicks after all.
/e you can turn on that the letter you have to press to appear on the UI. I thought the regular hotkey setup was very intuitive some of the hotkeys i had to learn because you rarely ever use them e.g. Neural Parasite = E.
misclicks are never good and should not happen with standard hotkeys as well. that's a very bad reason for not using grid hotkeys.
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customise your hotkeys, the more you attemp to use the better layout you can have,
i'm slowley changing my hotkey layouts from the basisi of grids,
i do use the f1-f8 keys. i've edited the location 1 to be f1, f2 to be location2
(as serriouley, alt tabbing works fine, windows key disabled and alt f4 works everytime hehe)
i personally struggling to actally use them all, played so many fps and games that are just pure mirco mechanics that hotkeys never really had much purpose.
on a side note i changed my middle mouse button to a side button where my phumb rest for screen movement and it really helps after a few struggling times using it, now i can scroll left and right like normal (drag to side) but during mirco i hold that button and wham i can follow the action with realtive ease.
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missclicks because of bad keyplacemet becauce morph baneling explode baneling is on the same button and stuff like that - build marines instead of scvs because everything is the same stupid button.
There is a reason hardly any pro gamer uses the gridhotkey setup.
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the best I think would be to use
Q W E R
A S D F
Z X C V
and assign all the keys to those keys, once you get used to it you move your hands minimally.
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custom keys either from a grid or standart basis are obv the best cause you can have best from both worlds and have evrything exactly as you want.
getting used to standart keys also is no easy thing. and there are quite some players that play grid.
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I've always used the standard layout and I learned it through playing the game and of course memorizing what key does what. Havent tried grid so cant answer your second question.
I'm wondering though why not just reassign your hotkeys exactly like you want now that you can rebind every key more or less? Of course using a certain layout and working from there is a good way to save time but overall using standard or grid should not be a choice you have to make.
With rebinding keys you can make any layout you want and focus on learning that. Basically make it as comfortable as possible. You should instead just think about what you find best for you. Literally put your hand on the keyboard and try to find out where you are the most efficient. Then work from there
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I use grid, i position my index finger over 4, middle goes between w, e and 3.
Can hit every single hotkey from this position, and as Zerg with my queens on 5/6/7/8/9/0 the only time i need to move from this position is for injects, very easy never missclick, i don't think i've had a single wrong hotkey press in the last 600-700 games out of 701 in total.
Once you get past 11-12 years old and can use a keyboard i see no reason to be missclicking regularly like one of the above posters inferred.
Hotkeys is just about whats comfortable for you, and honestly if your having troubles just spend 5-10 minutes a day, every day working on specific key combinations that slow you down or you have problems with.
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thank you for the answers!
The think with rebind the Grid hotkey is, that you only can change only all function that belong to this key. For example when you want to change attack move away from T you change every hotkey that is assigned to T.
This is another pro for standard, because you can just bind ONE function to another key...
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On February 07 2011 20:55 iNViCiOUZ wrote:
thank you for the answers!
The think with rebind the Grid hotkey is, that you only can change only all function that belong to this key. For example when you want to change attack move away from T you change every hotkey that is assigned to T.
This is another pro for standard, because you can just bind ONE function to another key...
make a own custom grid based on a standart layout. you can bind evrything exactly as you wish then.
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I actually don't see a reason for switching from my grid layout to standard or something. I came from WC3, that's why i played grid from the beginning on. If you're used to it, just keep it.
I mean, if you think you're too slow in some particular actions, just try to optimize those with custom keys. There's no reason to switch the entire layout.
btw.: hi forum!
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I use Grid hotkeys with 7, 8, 9 and 0 bound to Y, H, N, and Spacebar respectively. Just to Last Alert is moved to Middle Mouse, and I don't use Drag Scroll. F5-58 are switched onto F1-F4, with Idle Worker on F5.
The reason for this setup is because when I first cut my teeth on multiplayer computer gaming, it was with Quake 3, and thus I developed an allergy to not having every key I needed under my left hand at all times. I don't mind being punished for a mispressed key because I'm used to getting railgunned for that mistake anyway.
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I actually don't know why anyone would want to play with standard hotkeys when they can customize their own for best fit. Having the keys less spread out should benefit most SC2 players since it takes less time to move a finger than it takes to move a hand.
My custom hotkeys have QWE ASD ZXC mapped to build all units as well as to reach unit abilities. RFV are mapped to controll groups 5, 6 and 7.
Some units or upgrades which I seldom buy have a hotkey further away, other than that I'm able to play SC2 without ever needing to move my left hand.
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I used grid which worked really well for me other then the problem with baneling explode/morph being the same key and spawn larvae being akwardly placed relative to 6-0 keys (I inject with individ queens.) Yay custom hotkeys!!! I now use grid except spawn larvae and explode baneling are both v now. Pick hotkeys that work for how you use/want to use your control groups. The consensus seems to be that hotkeys are about what are comfortable for you. The reason most pros use the standard layout may have something to do with years of studying it in brood war. I don't remember who it was (some pro zerg on a stream) who said that he'd like to change his setup to take advantage of some of the new stuff but his fingers had been going 4-s-d (make drone) for so long that he just couldn't even think about switching.
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On February 07 2011 20:06 WrathOfAiur wrote:I think grid hotkeys are far superior to the standard ones. and now that you can customize them, it's even better. I basically use the standard grid hotkeys but changed attack-move back to 'a' and set the location hotkeys to F2-F6. so I use F1-F6 ( mostly just F2 and F3 ) and 1-7. 6 and 7 are robo and stargate. grid is just so much more effective.
how do you bind attackmove back t A without unbind building structures on A. (Dont tell me I should use custom keys and set all of them to gridbased keys ^^)
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Grid isn't necessarily bad; I feel like it twists my hands in weird ways I don't want it to twist, and thus standard is better. There are some random oddities like lair and lift are on the way far side, but for the most part it's still centered around the left side of the keyboard.
If you are used to grid, thought, and decide not to switch, you can use the fact that TLO uses grid to support the argument that it doesn't make too much difference one way or another.
I tried grid for a few games and it was epicly horrible because my hands were already used to something else. It was like relearning to walk. Depending on how long you've been playing, you might have a pretty hard time
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On February 08 2011 06:17 A1m wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 20:06 WrathOfAiur wrote:I think grid hotkeys are far superior to the standard ones. and now that you can customize them, it's even better. I basically use the standard grid hotkeys but changed attack-move back to 'a' and set the location hotkeys to F2-F6. so I use F1-F6 ( mostly just F2 and F3 ) and 1-7. 6 and 7 are robo and stargate. grid is just so much more effective. how do you bind attackmove back t A without unbind building structures on A. (Dont tell me I should use custom keys and set all of them to gridbased keys ^^)
Buildings and units have separate hotkey layouts. So unless buildings can attack move I think you're fine. At least if you start with the standard layout they do. So I guess I am telling you to use custom keys because that is the way that works.
One problem is that Terran and perhaps Zerg units might actually have a function bound to A in the Grid layout whereas Protoss does not. So moving Attack Move to A is very simple as Protoss but for the other two would require you to rebind whatever A was.
I play with Grid and see no reason to change anything beyond the F keys. I don't have any of the problems like baneling morph and burst being the same key because I play Protoss.
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A lot of good players use grid, so there's probably not a reason to change, but if you really want to change, I suggest just playing a dozen or so games (maybe custom games, even against AI), where you don't worry about playing well, just try to play slowly and do 100% of these with hotkeys and don't make mistakes, that's all it will take and you'll get used to it pretty quickly.
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Funny, I started out with standard and switched to grid, mainly because standard (mostly) carries over from BW.
The grid setup makes more sense ergonomically, and it's a hell of a lot easier to do 1t2t3t4t than it is to do 1a2a3a4a.
You're never gonna 'feel' right after changing your hotkey setup. Usually takes about a week or 2 depending on how much you play to fully fit into the new setup. + I play random, so using grid makes memorizing hotkeys much easier.
I have f2-f8 setup, but rarely ever use it. I can use 6-0 if needed, but rarely ever needed. At most I only need 1-8.
Ring finger on Q, and keep the rest spread out to hit what I need. You'll find that with grid you need to hit the Q key A LOT, and it's not to QQ about imbalance ;P
*TLO uses grid, who is like the best random player in the world.
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whoever played BW before definitely used standard
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I have the feeling that grid is much daster than standard, simply because I feel I don't have to move my fingers that much. Of course customizing them would make it even better
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On February 08 2011 06:17 A1m wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 20:06 WrathOfAiur wrote:I think grid hotkeys are far superior to the standard ones. and now that you can customize them, it's even better. I basically use the standard grid hotkeys but changed attack-move back to 'a' and set the location hotkeys to F2-F6. so I use F1-F6 ( mostly just F2 and F3 ) and 1-7. 6 and 7 are robo and stargate. grid is just so much more effective. how do you bind attackmove back t A without unbind building structures on A. (Dont tell me I should use custom keys and set all of them to gridbased keys ^^)
That's exactly what I did
I just used custom and remapped every single key to what it is in the grid but with said exceptions.
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I switched from standard to grid when I was playing terran. I'm now playing zerg, and I love it. I hotkey hatch 4, queens 567, lings 1 banes 2 mutas 3 (as an example).
My attack, 1t2q3qw (attack move lings, move banelings and magic box mutas) is a very comfortable sequence to fire off quickly. 4q is really easy. and 55x66x77x for injecting is also really easy. Plus, when I switch back to terran (usually for 3v3 or 4v4s), I don't have to worry about forgetting things as much.
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EPT
